Buying vs Leasing Solar - What Sunrun, Vivint, and Sunnova don't want you to know!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Reach out to Julian - Direct line (760) 473-5878. call or text. We work in 25 states!!!!
Email: JulianSolarGuide@gmail.com
IG: Juliantb
website: Juliansolarguide.com
In this video, Julian and Tyler explain why you should probably not do a PPA and just buy your system instead. PPA's are misrepresented and sold by people who oftentimes don't really know what they are selling.
Here's a breakdown of the math....
Let's say we are talking about an 8kw system in this example. If you were going to buy the system, market value would be around $25-29k depending on several factors. If you were to assume tax credit pay down on a 12 year term that I personally sell, assuming 27k sale price, payment would be around $183. 12 year at 4.99% interest rate.
$183 X 12 months X 12 years = $26,352 which includes the interest...
Even if you cannot take the tax credit at all because you don't have the tax liability, your payment over 12 years on the same loan would be $249 per month.
$249 X 12 months X 12 years = $35,856
Now if that same system were on a 25 year PPA term, even without an escalator rate, the math isn't even close. The way a PPA is priced is by the system's production, Let's say this system is produce 13,500kwh a year and your price per kWh is 13 cents which would be considered "giving away a deal" by the sales consultant. So, this is the very best case scenario and you'd be getting the best PPA deal ever. 13,500/ 12 months = approx 1,125kWh a month. at 13 cents per kWh, that's a $146 payment.... FOR 25 YEARS!
$146 X 12 months X 25 years = $43,800.
Would you like to get started with a consultation? If so, then please fill out the form in the link below. Once received, my assistant Cody will call you back afterwards to explain next steps in receiving a thorough consultation and quote from us. Thank you for watching the channel.
form.jotform.c...
Reach out to Julian - Direct line (760) 473-5878. call or text
Email: JulianSolarGuide@gmail.com
IG: Juliantb
website: Juliansolarguide.com
Thank you, you've convinced me to not get solar panels installed on my home. I remember when; if you wanted satellite TV you had to install these very large receiving dishes on your property. Then skip a decade and the dishes were 1/100 the size for the same service at a fraction of the price. Now, I no longer need those small dishes as I have high bandwidth cable and can stream and enjoy internet access at speeds we never dreamed of back then. These solar panels on your roof are going to be obsolete well before the 25-year lifespan when you sell your house and no buyer is going to consider them a value, because the new technology will be far better and cheaper than the old stuff.
No you need to go solar. Best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago and the next is today. All newer, smaller panels will do is create electricity as well
Yeah, this makes no sense. You skipped 30 years of something you want for aesthetics. Meanwhile, you could be saving money.
I installed a 35kw solar system with 15kw of battery storage for $25k myself. I got a local company to assist with the engineering plans I obtained a permit from the city. I had an electronics background knew nothing about roof mounting. I used the K2 rail system was impressed how well designed and low cost it was. I can add more batteries , and daisy chain more inverters if I want. I use EG4 inverters and LifeP04 batter server racks they sell very good product. Nothing wrong with Growatt, or Schneider electric. I'm close to cutting the cord with the utility possibly this year been a lifelong goal of mine to watch them remove that meter I'll put in a cover no longer be dependent on a monopoly.
You need about 50-70kWh of battery storage to pair with a solar array of that size. How are you getting away with almost no storage? That’s awesome overall though!
@@Superiorsolarconsulting That's why I have to continue to use utility in the summer. Winter I can get away with lot less my KWH is much lower here in Phoenix. EG4-LL 30.72KWH rack is $10k would need 3 of them $30k in batteries to have 90kHW 100% off gird from signature solar. We are also looking at moving up to Show Low AZ. I will remove all the solar from the house install it up there on solar tracker that keep it aligned to the sun. Essentially all I will need is a well for water and I can live completely off grid self-sustaining on 37 acres. I can do whatever I want no city to bother me. My property would be miles from the main road. I have an electric powered ultralight called Aerolite EV-103 I'm building. I could fly it from the property land it at the airports or dirt roads. Small airports allow ultralights to land can borrow car from the FBO bring supplies back to my property. Always dreamed of having a home without being dependent on government. There are people here who have even bigger systems then I do heat their pool in the winter to 90F with 130k BTU heat pumps on solar.
Wow, do you have a RUclips channel or some information online. Would like to learn more.
As consumers all these solar companies need oversight like utilities and to be regulated! If my electric company serviced the community this way, we'd all be in an uproar! But if I call my eletric company, they respond quite quickly! Great customer service!
I totally agree but the prices would skyrocket if contractors had to worry about a whole new aspect of running their companies. Consumers need to not just say yes to the guy who knocks on their door
OMG How come no one else explains this? You guys are amazing!
I agree with buying the system outright. You definitely save a lot more. Financing now with where interest rates are now is super expensive.
Yes and this video is 3 years old. Something to note
This video was wonderfully helpful to me. I was just at the beginning of digging into putting solar panels on my roof and making that investment. Looking around for information I could gain some knowledge from and found your video here. You literally saved me from making a very big mistake. Knowledge is power and you have given me a huge boost! Thank you.
Thanks so much. If you haven’t yet chosen a contractor, reach out and I can hopefully help you out. 760-473-5878
Did you install solar? How big is your house and how much did it cost/
I know nothing about solar.
Yesterday, I came home and a sweet looking young woman (solar saleswoman) was sitting with my wife offering her to buy solar (PPA with an escalator). I've been burnt before. I always say I will research things before signing anything. She kept pushing and even offered to come back to the house 3 times, to show us things. Today, after watching a few RUclips videos, I called her and told her "NO".
If you’d like a quote for a purchased system… (760) 473-5878
2024 here! Great info guys! Thanks for sharing.
Huh!?!? This video is so misleading.
Why would any of those companies you guys are talking down on would offer a program such as a PPA to rip the customer off? What I was able to grasp from this video is that a company that offers you a PPA will cover the customer on maintenance, monitoring their system for 25 years and will offer a no up front cost is scamming you? Wth?!
I also noticed you didn’t mention that if the system doesn’t produce the kilowatt they said it would they reimburse you at the end of the year.
Why would a company like the one you mentioned would invent such a program to “Scam” people?
I actually did a bit more research and I found out that Sunrun also offers a 10 year warranty on your roof after installation no penetration or leak. They also give customers 2 insurances of $1M each.
You said that the companies offer crappy solar panels that are outdated and the maintenance is crap. Why would any company install such system if they have to be out often repairing, maintaining, or switching out to new panels all the time for the entirety of the 25 year agreement? That sounds very counterproductive to me.
When doing my research I found that the PPA program is not for everyone. If you have the capital to buy your system out right great! Then I guess you can save more. Some families can’t afford a $8K system. You guys said it yourself that going with the PPA at 2.9% is still a lot more cheaper then going with the utility company. You actually put it on a graph! You guys confused me there haha! So you’re talking down on a program that is still cheaper than staying with my utility company? I don’t see how these companies are hiding information like you said they are.
If I’d be in your shoes I’d try not to sound like sales guys that probably got fired from one of these companies and now making videos to talk down on them or their programs. I would rather make videos showing your viewers what options they have instead of trying to make other companies look bad and misleading people. Very unprofessional fellas. If you would have given me that presentation in my house you’d immediately be tossed out. It doesn’t look good when you have to talk negatively about other companies and their programs in order for you to convince people to buy from you. That actually sounds more like a “scam” to me. Get your stuff together guys.
you so totally work for Sunrun hahahahahaha
@@codywagner4992I so totally do research is more accurate.
PPA’s are the equivalent of getting a loan from the corner loan shark and you still don’t own it. PPA’s are a way for SunRun to make tons of money end of story. It’s not evil and sometimes a PPA can overall make sense but the point of this video is to make people aware that the whole pitch from SunRun about why you shouldn’t buy it is purely so they can make more money. A lot of people get talked into doing a PPA when buying the system would have been a better move for them. Unfortunately salespeople oftentimes are only thinking about commissions.
SunRun told me I had to buy power from the equipment on my roof no matter if I used it or not. Most of the time I would be paying SunRun more for the power than I could sell it to the local utility for. They wanted a 25 year contract under which, to get out of it, I'd need to pay off all remaining payments. This video is very helpful.
Glad you saw through their not so great deal. If you’d like a good proposal for a purchase reach out. 760-473-5878
Thanks for the simple explanation!
You're welcome!
Thank You for All that you are doing for World Peace and for our Planet...
Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. La Paz.. Namaste ..
🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮️ ❤️ 🕊
I’m not even in solar sales but I can definitely see these guys are just pushing there products. My neighbor actually purchased his panels and paid like 220 per month and literally right after he paid them off they STOPPED WORKING!!!! The company he bought them from said they are your panels your problem. I actually have sunrun ppa I pay 150$ my bill use to be 300$ “just like my neighbor” and 13 years later they still work they stopped producing sufficient power like 3 years ago and in one month they came out and replaced some damaged panels. They even covered the difference of the ppa price and the rest of my utility bill. So thanks but no thanks I’m happy with my ppa. I don’t want to spend 35k for a depreciating asset made of glass on my roof 👍🏼
The panels just stopping working after the system is paid for it doesn’t make sense. It sounds like the centralized inverter was never connected correctly or failed prematurely which is very common. A PPA will cost you much more over the lifetime and gives you pretty much no flexibility to get out a it early
@@Superiorsolarconsulting yeah it was explained to me, I’d much rather pay more and have a warranty then pay less and get screwed over.
Placing a lien on your property is the last thing you want to do. Once you buy a house, you need to learn that borrowing against your property will remove your rights to sell, or partially with a contract that a future buyer won’t need. I rather own electric bill than owning a contract that you cannot sell
I don’t prefer leases unless somebody is only worried about payment
So glad I live in a municipality that will not buy back power. As an electrician, I'm involved in setting up large commercial solar sites...the only ones that make sense. Commercial arrays are around 1200 volts per circuit. Get ready to replace your roof when you sell your house, and the solar panels are a negative selling point. Could easily be $20,000 to match shingles on the whole roof. Ground mount arrays when they are the only option make far more sense, or carport arrays separate from the house. The cheaper systems are installed by less experience employees and cheap materials/panels. Keeping the panels off your house is safer when they catch fire because connections heated up due to bad installs.
None of this makes sense at all. Solar increases home value and extends roof life. Bad contractors are a problem, not solar
Sunrun installed a defective roof on my house. I chased them with emails and phone calls for two years, now they say they won't finish repairing it. Sunrun installed the roof with undocumented workers. There is damage over the entirety of the roof. One roofer quoted me over $22,000 to repair the roof not including water damage in the walls.
Great video. I'm looking at changing careers from financial planning to solar sales & basically came to the same conclusion that PPA seems like a terrible idea for most ppl & I haven't even sold a system yet. Own the system, get equity, be energy independent, get the tax credit, recoup some cost when you sell vs ppa where you own nothing.
Lots of thanks to you two. I was very close to completing an agreement with sunrun but something just don’t sit right in my gusts and you guys helps me make the final decision.
Years ago i looked into sunrun and all the others companies. They charged an arm and a leg but still doesn’t adds up. Im in process of getting 32 panels for 37k minus 11k credit and another 1k credit, making the system cost like 25k. I choose finance over anything else. Since I finance for 10yrs my bills will be higher but still lower than my peak grid used. The system is warranty for 25yrs, so after 10yrs ill start seeing profits. Would be best if i got cash but since I don’t I gotta finance. Anyway, the system offset like 186% of my used, so hopefully the excess would send over to the grid and cover my usage during peak months.
If you need a consultation please reach out. I have area experts all around the country. 760-473-5878. We can provide a great proposal, and hopefully earn your business.
@@tavuong666 which company? I got quoted 47k for 21 panels.. things are only $180 each 🙄
@@richg7264 check with ADT, unfortunately for my case that system isn’t sufficient
@@richg7264 check with ADT, unfortunately for my case that system isn’t sufficient
The federal solar tax credit is back up to 30% with the signing of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022. And it’s effective through 2032.
I'm so glad I found your channe!. I just met with a sunrun rep yesterday and was considering the leasing PPA option. I won't do that now. Thanks!
Great decision
Thank you for all of your valuable info Julian. Not related to leasing panels, but I just got a quote down here in Florida for Solar. They offered me a 25 year loan to pay off the panels. I have a 2400 square foot ranch in sw florida. With a new roof, my quote was $92,000.00!! After further research and watching your videos, I realize they were trying to rob me. I then asked him how many KW he was providing, the answer is 14.43. The total cost of the solar without the roof was $72,000. This works out to over $5 per kilowatt. I wish you were in my area! maybe then it would make sense to go solar
it's actually more expensive in San Diego. Your $5ppw (not kW) factors in the financing/dealer costs. I don't think they were trying to rob you, very industry standard pricing actually.
In fact they were trying to rob you. Good thing you backed up that shhty deal
@@SPROS2024Contractors assume anyone who lives in southern California is wealthy because you own a 1-million-dollar home. Most solar installers make 3-4 times what it cost them to buy the parts. That way the owner gets paid $1000-1500 an hour wage. The homeowner makes $350-400k a year salary what does he care if it cost 70-100k over 20 years.
Um....yeah you were talking to dishonest people. Did they not recommend to you a ground mount since you have so much property? Ground mount solar is far more efficient and you don't need to get a new roof to have one installed.
You need to go ground mount.
Great to see a new video post. Keep them coming 😀
Julian, thank you so much for your videos. Your’s is the first channel I’ve found that really counters every point the solar sales guys feed you in a very understandable way. There I was minding my own business in Home Depot the other day when someone from Sunrun hijacked me in the lighting aisle. Gave the whole pitch, had another sales person come to my house, met with a second large solar company in the northeast for due diligence and was pretty much ready to pull the trigger. However, something didn’t feel right. It felt like there was no downside to what they were saying. Through talking with friends, realtors and getting real world perspective plus Googling around/finding your channel, I’ve been saved from a potential huge mistake signing up for a PPA. Now I’m thinking through purchasing my own system and learning lots from you. Thank you for this content!
Hey Robert. Thanks so much for the nice comment. Where are you located? I may be able to help you
I am a SunRun rep and I always tell my prospective clients the pros and cons of both because at the end of the day, I’m trying to help people save money and help the environment. Usually the ppa is a better alternative for people who don’t have the credit to qualify for a loan but still want to save some money vs sticking with the traditional electric company. If you have the means, buying your system cash is the most profitable way to go solar but most people don’t have that kind of money to invest and the ones that do are the ones that constantly tell me that they’re not interested in Solar because they can afford to pay $400+ on their electric bill. Anyways our panels are the 2nd most efficient on the market and if you’re thinking of buying, I guarantee you we can give you the best rate.
Sun Run is a piece of shiiiit solar company. If sunrun is a coming, look at the sun....and run
@@michaelmacias8778 Sun run is a piece of shiiiit company. If ur a rep with honest intentions, find a different company to work at. Sunrun reps: if ur mouth is moving, ur lying.
@@michaelmacias8778 The best rate? Do tell. The SunRun Rep at Costco told me the mark up was huge on their systems. He made 14k for one month and he was just a Solar Ambassador, not even the guy going out to the house, aka the expert. So he gets his cut too, and the contractors that put it in get their cut and lets not forget about your COE, she wants her cut as well. Too many finger's in the pie. I'm not sure what your pulling in, but they have to use equipment that it's as good. It's like buying a Dell, there is good, better, and best parts. Gamers always want the best, that's why most of them learned how to make their own computers.
Excellent work gentlemen! In MD, we educate homeowners on the same thing!
Good video! Our system is working great. Thanks!
Which system?
Thank you for breaking this down. I had a Sun Run guy come to my house proposing a PPA. It sounded great but I had not done any research. Your video breaks it down and saved me hours of research.
Holy shit. What an awesome and clear explanation. I was on the phone with Sunrun today. He made the PPA option sound so good, I thought it came with a happy ending. But I coyldn't get past the fact I am installing solar and incurring a new power bill. The entire idea is to get OFF the grid. I will probably hire them to intall the system for the 21,000 cash price and just add my Zendure Powerbase V as a batter backup. Pay cash and walk away from them.
You still pay a bill if you buy solar you just either pay for the loan, full amount in cash after install or have the company come and install for free and pay slightly more. Its not a scam just an alternate option to buying solar. The idea of getting off the grid is not possible in most states. Getting all of your power from solar and having your solar system pay the difference of what you use from the Utility at night depends on your state, roof size, and electric usage.
Really appreciate this video. Thank you for sharing this knowledge.
Thanks!
Great info my god thanks I was jus considering Solor
Of course. Reach out for a proposal. 760-473-5878
Great. I almost signed up with Sunnova on a PPA plan for 65k after 25 years, but during the signing process I noticed they had the wrong address for my house so I still had 4 boxes to digitally sign so we had to stop it. I told them I could not start over today and would call them in a few days. They had to call and cancel the process because of the wrong address. I hope I was not scammed.
Let’s see what a good deal looks like for you. A PPA can make sense in certain circumstances. 760-473-5878
I appreciate you educating ppl on this topic. Don't pay too much attention to the negativity in the comment section because you don't know their reasoning. A smart person can see your transparency and honesty. Question, once you pay off the loan (system) what residual bill, if any, do you have left?
None
Nope. Just whatever the utility company charges you for the connection fee or you start using more than the system provides
The whole point of going solar is to own your own power and save hundreds of thousands in the long run. There are still beneficial owning option even when you’re retired,on fixed income. I’ve done it. Switching from renting vs owning is always better then renting to renting. If you disagree can you give me an example of a time where the consumer made out better than the producer?
Thanks for the useful information, very useful for me, Thanks again
The information here is not accurate. PPAs are simple to transfer to the next owner and they are a very good option for people who are planning on selling their home in a few years and for rental properties or non-owner-occupied houses. These guys are bashing PPAs because they likely don’t have that option in their sales portfolio.
I have the ability to sell PPAs... If the buyer is okay with transferring the PPA into their name then great. But, I have had so many conversations over the years with people who were set up in a terrible situation where they had to pay the whole PPA off during the sale and it ended up costing thousands. That's very common if you speak to real estate agents.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Your video throws a blanket over all utilities. In California especially in PG&E territory, buyers inherit agreements that are deeply discounted compared to what they would be paying in PG&E kilowatt rates.
The only “problems” that we see are very rare with un educated real estate agents who are behind the times.
Excuse me I have a PPA, and I can't even get them to come out and service my solar panels. I had so much water damage to my roof that I had to pay them to remove the panels, so I could pay to get my roof repaired. On top of the monies I am already paying them! No customer service at all! Months to get anyone to respond!
The long run. When you don’t have a long run. If I’m 70 years old. It makes no sense for me to pay 30k for electric for 10 years. I won’t out live the loan. Not everyone is 35 years old.
Depends on your area. You can have a cash payback period of 5-8 years in a lot of the country. There are issues with PPA’s but elderly folks on fixed incomes and not able to take the tax credit is the perfect fit for a PPA
this video got me thinking about the tesla loan I inherited with the purchase of my home a few years ago. Previous owner did a 4.4kw system that cost him a whopping 20k plus 20k interest on a 30 year loan. right now the loan balance is at 20k and I figure the best I can do is pay it off which I might be able to do by next year instead of paying tesla for the electricity and loan. I don't even understand how the monthly billing works.
Great info as always.
Thank you 👍
Don't sign contracts, you'll pay the electric company too (double bills), tax credit to keep the same payment isn't guaranteed so your payments will go up later for sure.
Aswesome video. Very informative. Thanks Guys!!!
Thanks for being the voice of clarity on this. Much appreciated
Not sure if these guys are just pushing a purchasing option here but PPAs still save home owners money, the warranties provided now in 2024 are better than purchasing and being stuck with broken panels. Sometimes paying a bit more for warranties are way better than buying something and getting stuck when something happens to your system.
This video is 3 years old. Most people still benefit more from a purchase. Batteries and high interest rates have changed the landscape though and leases are more favorable for some. The pw3 pricing is taking us back to financing being better though
Solution - Never ever put solar panels on your roof!
Instead look for much simpler and basic, less complex solutions to save energy - ie install quality dual pain energy efficient windows in your home (several a year if cant do all at once).....put extra insulation in attic.....Purchase (ideally with cash) a quality high seer (18+) 2 speed AC system from company highly rated in your area and with good warranty. I did all the above and my monthly electric bills are lower than most all of the same sized homes on my block, that went with Solar!
Investing in energy saving windows and insulation doesn’t produce power though. Two completely different things
I caught sunrun. They wanted to install tesla panels for me. Zero down plus a 2000 Costco gift card and charge extra 30k. I went with sunpower and straight from the company finance at .049% 36 panels that will cost 49k with the tax credit. I don’t mind paying expensive because I know Sunpower is quality
You better look at your contract with sunrun again. Stay away from Sunrun.
I had an appointment with sunrun. We went over the numbers and the financing and I swear to God, I was laughing at the sales rep by the time she was explaining all the numbers. Sunrun wanted $62,000 for a system that probably cost $12,000.
This year in 2023, you can get a 30% rebate on your solar installation. But Sunrun legally steals your rebate. They raise the price of the solar installation 30%. So they walk away with your rebate and stick you with a lease contract for 24 years. You think the interest rate is OK, but no it’s not. Because they add another interest rate to the payment every year. The payment goes up 2.99% every year. After 10 years you’re paying 45% more.
Let’s talk about their tesla battery. They want $18,000 for one Tesla battery. I own a Tesla three. The battery on that car is probably stores 3 to 4 times the electricity of their house battery. And it cost $16,000 with labor to replace my car battery. They are completely ripping off the public with their installation. And they’re lease payment that goes up 2.99% every year for 24 years.
After 10 years, your solar panels will not be able to pay for the entire electricity bill. The cost of electricity will go up. Your solar panels will not be able to produce enough electricity. So you’ll end up with an electric bill and solar power bill that’s going up every single year 2.99%.
Then there is selling your house. What sunrun does is they renegotiate the contract with a new buyer and they want even more money for the panels than seller paid. They don’t care if you sell the house as long as they get paid.
One woman paid $60,000 to have the sunrun install Solar panels. When she went to sell the house, the new buyer was told they need to pay $70,000 for the system. She had seven offers on the house. Everyone was rejected after the solar was disclosed.
Stay away from the Sunrun solar
How’s that working out for you now? 😂 There’s a reason Sunrun’s in business and sun power isn’t
Thank you
Just got done with Sunrun....I think I'm going a different way. Thanks
You got this!
The PPA fixed and escalated PPA cost the same over 25 years. I would argue an aged system is more of a liability when selling your home over a fully covered PPA. Equipment wise the PPA used top tier equipment. Papa's also use a power hub inverter with power optimizers, the same benefits with micro inverters but much more efficient and converting DC to AC power. These two folks are biased in their review. A PPA and a purchase are both viable options. It comes down to the preference of the home owner. Companies that offer PPAs are likely to be around for the long haul. Smaller companies who sell a system only, especially on price won't last long. Once they go out of business the homeowner becomes a solar orphan and their warranty went away along with the installer. Sunrun Vivint and Sunnova are the largest companies for a reason.
I spoke with SunRun at Costco and got this response from them on Linkedin. Thanks for asking Michael! We offer a variety of Power Purchase Agreements, Lease Agreements, as well as, the option to purchase the system directly from us, all depending on the local and state regulations. I'm in Arizona and I dont think they approve of PPA, but aren't leases the same thing? Also, Dave Ramsey is against PPAs as well. If you can't pay off your system in 5 years then the cost benefit of it might be too much for most people.
@@myke4liberty @Myk I've got good news for you. The PPA is offered in AZ and no it is not a lease. You are not paying for panels but the power produced by the panels. The PPA is an alternative to your utility and therefore the homeowner is not responsible for the system. Also the PPA company insures the system, an added cost benefit. Dave Ramsey also does not understand the PPA and why would he? He is not a solar professional. A PPA requires zero investment from the homeowner. So "ROI" starts immediately. The true "ROI" for an owned system is nowhere near 5-10 years. Nobody takes into consideration the additional cost of ownership, financing charges, service costs, removal costs, insurance and cost of downtime. These are very real cost the people who have owned a system for 15 years plus understand. It's as popular residentially as it is commercially.
@@chrismink8157 Chris, I'm a new solar energy consultant working through a third-party company contracted with SunRun. The company I'm working with here in South Florida is training reps on pushing PPAs while not really giving us info on selling the finance / purchase options and being a bit vague about it. They tell us it's because Florida is still very new to solar and PPA is a more attractive option for those looking to go solar due to seeing instant savings.
The issue I'm running into is that customers here are paying around $0.14 per kwh on average with Florida Power & Light (utility company) meanwhile our PPAs are set at $0.125 with capped esc of 2.9%
I'm at a crossroads right now where I'm wondering if I would even sign up for this PPA myself. Am I wrong to say that the current average cost per kwh is already low for this area and it wouldn't make sense to go PPA? They are telling me to tell customers that on average rates have increased 5-7% over the past 20 years but that's a lie. The selling model is to show them how much they will pay in 12 years at the halfway mark of their 25 year contract assuming utility rates go up 5% every year and how much they will pay on a PPA assuming rates go up 2.9% every year.
I can see how some people in other states might benefit from a PPA although a purchase / finance would give them more savings, the PPA could work for those who pay a high utility bill to begin with and the solar company can provide them with a significantly lower rate than what the utility bill does. However, do you think it's worth it here in Florida with our low utility costs?
Should I be asking them to train me on how to sell the finance / purchase option over the PPA at this point? It feels almost uncomfortable to sell this now that I can see that the value I'm offering might not be there.
@@RobertoHernandez-uy3gs Move to California I know direct reps don’t work for a dealer company work DIRECTLY for Sunrun
Hi Julian, thanks for the great video. I'm a new solar energy consultant working through a third-party company contracted with SunRun. The company I'm working with here in South Florida is training reps on pushing PPAs while not really giving us info on selling the finance / purchase options and being a bit vague about it. They tell us it's because Florida is still very new to solar and PPA is a more attractive option for those looking to go solar due to seeing instant savings.
The issue I'm running into is that customers here are paying around $0.14 per kwh on average with Florida Power & Light (utility company) meanwhile our PPAs are set at $0.125 with capped esc of 2.9%
I'm at a crossroads right now where I'm wondering if I would even sign up for this PPA myself. Am I wrong to say that the current average cost per kwh is already low for this area and it wouldn't make sense to go PPA? They are telling me to tell customers that on average rates have increased 5-7% over the past 20 years but that's a lie. The selling model is to show them how much they will pay in 12 years at the halfway mark of their 25 year contract assuming utility rates go up 5% every year and how much they will pay on a PPA assuming rates go up 2.9% every year.
I can see how some people in other states might benefit from a PPA although a purchase / finance would give them more savings, the PPA could work for those who pay a high utility bill to begin with and the solar company can provide them with a significantly lower rate than what the utility bill does. However, do you think it's worth it here in Florida with our low utility costs?
Should I be asking them to train me on how to sell the finance / purchase option over the PPA at this point? It feels almost uncomfortable to sell this now that I can see that the value I'm offering might not be there.
As someone just looking into buying a large system for my home and diving deep into this rabbit hole trying to understand purchase - almost feeling like I should sell solar so I can help others figure things out honestly - I would say, you should sell something you can stand behind - today I was given all three options by one company they were honest and upfront about which was the better deal -and it was my choice. For some people that cannot afford the purchase cash or through a loan, then those low interest loans or PPA may benefit and be only option but I appreciate knowing all the facts and then making an educated decision. Going back to you - see what the company says when you want to offer all the options, if not you may need to move to. company that better aligns with your values, in the end it will be better for you I believe.
worst, they make you sign an agreement that you may not be aware making Sunrun being the Owner and not you being the Owner when you pay that lump sum up front. Paying up front may be fine for most situations when you don't have the cash or ability to obtain a low interest loan or loan out right. But you still left with a slight concern what if Sunrun goes bankrupt one of these days. when that happen, not only possible you are will not continue to receive the promise of warranty and guanratee, you have to wond will someone show up and going to come and rip the system off your roof top.
@@johnchan2655 good point. your guarantee is only good as long as the company is around. Also.... it is a public stock company.... Wonder what their cash flow and reserves look like? I've not had a chance to look yet.
Hi Robert, I’m a sales rep for sunrun as well but in California. If your selling .14 a kwh, then it would be easier to pitch that then taking on a loan for 30-50k just to save 20-30 dollars a month on their bill..just wouldn’t make sense to take on that debt, in stead the PPA becomes a better option/ alternative to get their power at a cheaper rate, just like a cheaper gas station, cheaper grocery store etc etc. I’m in California where it’s at .38 a kWh, summer bills are $300-600+ in the summer and we’re selling at .15-.24 cents a kwh. Hope your still with us. Best of luck!
@@tonysilva7993 not to mention, batteries are essential in CA now - and batteries are the most expensive piece of equipment in solar.
Sunrun's PPA gives you a 25-year warranty on ALL equipment, and you do not have to take on debt to reduce your electric costs.
At the end of the day, these two dudes are still selling, and want to diminish Sunrun's credibility. Not very transparent, eh?
thank you, I was about to get PPA, not anymore!
Glad you found the info valuable
Got ppa and equipment directly from Tesla
So if you purchase and the solar manufacturer warranties expire on the equipment, you need to come out of pocket to fix or replace what needs to be fixed. This is called the cost of ownership, which is an expense.
Manufacturer warranties are still there
We are currently getting estimates to go solar.. we have a 20 acre home and much sunlight in Florida.. ADT TOMORROW, appointment.. I’m just getting prices.. I need a good company👍🏻 thanks
If you haven’t signed yet, call or text me 760-473-5878
Any complaints regarding sunnova?
Excellent video!👍
Thank you!
Hi Julian. Thank you for all your informative videos. Have you heard of Project Solar? If so, what do you think of them?
JULIAN THE SOLAR CLOWN
Thanks for the comment. Boosts the algo 😘
I Learned a lot from your videos. I want my friends to go solar but I know they won't do a much research as me. So I was wondering if your could do a comparison of companies or which companies you recommend based off of what equipment they use.
I'm in texas and went with freedom solar because of the sun power panels.
All companies have the top tier and low tier equipment. Just give them pocket note to request high rated panels like mentioned in their video and a micro inverter:)
Thank you for your honesty
Everbright PPA w REC panels, IQ8+ microinverters, and a Enphase Battery w 25 yr warranty.
Happy to see more companies offering micros on PPA products. The companies servicing these systems are learning that going cheap in the beginning isn’t always the cheapest
Would some of this hold up in the high rate environment we are in today? I haven't went out to a bank to see what a loan would be, but helocs are around 5.5% right now. I got confronted by Sunrun at Costco and they presented a plan, a PPA I presume, where I'd pay $113/mo for 12 months, and if I keep the $10,000 credit from the government, it would go up to a $165/mo payment or so for 25 years. So that's roughly $40,000 of costs if you account for the credit. I think their rate is 2.99%, too. $33,000 loan amount.
I'm very interested in your argument here, but I just don't see how the numbers add up where PPA is much worse. You were throwing around $100,000 costs and such, which probably would be the amount if you got a bank loan out.
One thing I did notice was that my plan did say 1 solar edge inverter and Hanwha qcell panels, so there's the mediocre panels and the non microinverter you do warn about. I see that issue before me. I'm just trying to make a decision. Right now, with this plan, it seems I'd get $11,000 cash up front ($10k from the fed and $1k from costco) but, until I get a pool/increase my energy costs more, I'd lose $30/mo since my utility company charges $30+ "customer fee" every month regardless if all my electric needs are provided by the panels. Thanks for your video.
If someone pitched you a deal where you were the one getting the tax credit, then you were actually purchasing the system and it was not a PPA. Just a financed deal. When you do a PPA there is no official interest-rate because you are technically agreeing to buy kilowatt hours for a certain price. If you extrapolate out 25 years of payments and the fact that getting out of it early requires a lump sum of all of the payments if buyers don’t want it transferred, you’re signing an extremely expensive and inflexible plan. Buying the system with a non fee or smaller fee with a higher rate allows for the exit to be much less expensive and allows for tons of home value and equity to built at the same time, helping the sellers leave with more money in their pocket. Even in the best case for the sellers doing a PPA, they will just be able to transfer the debt and no home value increase will occur. It’s really the same concept as buying versus renting your home. Do you want to build equity yourself or pay someone else for a service?
@@Superiorsolarconsulting You assume all buyers have tax liabilities each year. That’s not the case. The credit is useless if you don’t owe taxes.
Shooting outdoors was a mistake.
Maybe
So stupid to do a PPA I built a 1kw system for a little over 2000 and I can add over time if I want and not this grid tied bs did mine as a backup but use it to run my living room and kids rooms. Can't afford to buy a system out right buy it a component at a time panel this month charge controller next ect that's how I did it
How about the prepayment ppa? Pay one time cost and comes with maintenance, warranty for 25y and free removal
Not a bad option if you have cash but not taxable income
They are making it seem like PPA's are bad when they are the BEST option for power in the immediate for an ROI. Long term CASH is better if you stay in your home. If you buy Solar and then sell your home a few years later you wasted all that CASH for someone else to have cheaper energy.
That's not telling the whole story though because an owned system is going to raise the value of the property and with the tax credit, the owner needs to reap 74% of the total back in the sale of the house and will have gotten free power for the time in the house. If you buy a car for $10k, drive it for three years, and sell it for $10k, that car was essentially free which is what many are doing with their solar systems. A PPA can surely bring down monthly payments but doesnt set up the buyer for an easy out. I literally had a guy call me this morning who is buying a house that has 23 years years left of a sunburn PPA on it that totals over $45,000 when the cash price for a new system the same size is less than $15,000 after tax credits. So, now he's going to use it against the seller and now those poor people who thought they could easily pass It onto the new homeowner are going to be in for a surprise when they realize they should have just bought it 2 years ago.
Given that atleast one solar guy every month knocks my door, I think this solar is super high margin business and it's a wild west unregulated sector.
It is. But that’s not to say it doesn’t make sense for the consumer. It makes so much sense still at a high price that people get away with it. That’s because it’s really that much of a no brainer that they can’t stuff the price with margin and still save you money
If you need someone good from Sunrun in Massachusetts let me know. All the Sunrun Sales people that I know will explain why buying the system is better and if you are a good sales person you know that PPA is for specific people. As a customer just make sure you ask the sales person about buying the system if you think you can do that. Also don't worry so much about getting your equipment fixed these cases where it takes ages are not as common as you might think with good large companies. Check that your solar company is not going to pawn you off to another company like Sunnova. Sunrun manages their own installs and continues to get better and faster at replacing equipment. PPA is great for a lot of people. Also every state is different with PPA. More people want solar than don't now and PPA can be great for people moving or that could not have afforded the extra cost of the sold solar system. The issues with people buying homes with PPA are more often because the real-estate people not explaining correctly. Yes it is true you will save more buying. Just weigh your options and your house will sell fine. Most people cannot actually claim all of the tax credit anyways.
The way I think about it is, buying is simply the best if you can. Leasing is better than doing nothing most of the time. It’s not the lease product that’s necessarily the issue, it’s how sales people sell it.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Exactly! That should be in your video said very simply as a final note. I don't appreciate people Max rating their customers. This video comes off very combative towards the PPA and can cause people to be very negative and then those that cannot afford to buy are stuck paying the high electric bill because they are afraid of a PPA now. They should be enlightened on the process so they understand that they can negotiate the price with their salesman its not just a price that the company gives. Though not everyone will be able to do this. I'm finding a lot of people here in the comments that simply see the PPA as this evil scam. If your salesman does not mention buying ask them about it. If they do not talk about buying ask the company if they do it. If you don't like your salesman get the company to send another one.
Hello Julian, i just got a conversation with Sunrun. the sale rep. got pretty upset after 1.5 hrs trying to convince us to get them but my husband keeps saying it's a rip off. Any way the sale rep is giving us 19 panels for $206 per mo. 25 years and 2.9 increase during the 25yrs. this is a lease. I started watching your videos to educade my self.🎓
2.9 per cent increase every year, btw. it keeps compounding. 2.9% of $209 1st year, then 2.9% of that sum, then 2.9% of the next sum..etc. etc. It adds up to almost doubling your bill halfway thru the lease. Sunrun is a scam.
Your husband is correct. I did research on Sun Run before they came out for a free quote. I called back so quickly and canceled. Then sent them all theses RUclips video’s about them getting sued and BBB complaints. I now don’t trust any solar company.
@@B2stunt1 that's the problem. Solar is a great technology, at least for us in California and the southwest, but so many of the companies are so underhanded.
Dammm thats alot ... i cancel my sunrun contract before they came to check the measurements after learning more about lease. Mine was going to be 20 panels for $95 monthly for 20 years (they Never mention other financial options) straight to the program of lease. I'm going to buy them instead looking into sunpower or local company here in (Illinois)
@@thezfamily989 did you ever end up going with sunrun and buying them? I am looking to buy a home with a sunrun system installed in 2019 which has the 20 yr lease which is transferable but I’m wondering if I can buy it out during the lease.
This is fantastic! Anybody know of any solar companies who do business like they described in this video?
I service 30 states currently if you need a consultation. Reach out 760-473-5878
Good video, but a few key points for discussion. Panasonic just closed down their solar panel division and Q-Cells have the largest manufacturing center in the western hemisphere, parent company is Korean not from China. Also, with dealer fees being so high (35%+ on top of the cash price is financed) this is putting a lot of people into a tough spot and basically taking their federal tax credit of 30% now.
I know a lot of guys in the industry who used to think the same way about PPAs and preferred to sell ownership now pivot to the PPA model with SunRun bc of dealer fees being so high and SunRun offers a chance to buy out the system year 5 and claim the tax credit while avoiding dealer fees.
Thoughts?
These 2 guys have very little actual ownership and leasing experience - i purchased my 19-panel PV system (6-kW) about 8-9 years ago for $39,000 with a 20-year warranty from a reputable local solar company, and i wish i had leased the system instead of purchasing them for the following reasons: 1) the 20-year or 25-year warranty means nothing if that solar company goes out of business, 2) if there are problems with the PV system, there is very little incentive for the solar company to come repair the system while the system is under warranty because they have zero incentives to fix the problem when you have paid them everything all up front in advance - if i had leased the system, i simply stop payment until they fix the problem, and 3) A leased system cost nothing upfront - the leasing company takes all the risk, 4) the solar technology has changed so fast, where my 19-panel PV system purchased less than 10 years ago is already obsolete where the newer system today are more energy efficent and costs less than half as much.
@@mikefa5891 so true, which is why personally I like offering the leased systems right now especially with lending fees being so predatory. Thanks for that feedback and insight, you’ve confirmed my theory on the industry at this moment in time. 🙌
I have several loan options with near no fee at all. While the savings when financing a system have diminished a little bit with the higher rates, comparing it to a PPA is still absurd and unless you are elderly, cannot take the tax credit, and do not plan on giving the property to a loved one, a PPA does not make sense for you.
There have been multiple solar manufacturers and installers that have gone out of business. There are have also been thousands of Lease/PPA customers that are the victims of lack of service too. It’s even more common. I get calls almost every day from people that are stuck with SunRun and want out and just feel like they’ve been screwed
Panasonic is Japanese! Qcells is Korean .... Also, Panasonic has not shut their solar business .. they simply have subcontracted out the manufacturing .. but still using Panasonic R&D ... JUst like Apple does! Panasonic did this to becaome more price competitive ..... too many china , and SE Asia companies were undercutting prices so much they had to reduce costs.... @@mikefa5891
thanks this confirmed what i suspected.
You spoke about people using bad equipment. I would like to know what companies you use and what kind of panels your using. Also what contractors you prefer. SunRun is moving into the Tucson Area. I'm not sure if they are still doing the PPA in our area. I would like to find out. Lynn Jurich used to he a hedge fund person which means that she's all about getting residual income for herself.
Hit the nail on the head with your statement. I prefer Enphase micro-inverters vs the SolarEdge system Sunrun uses. Also, Sunrun is using generally cheaper panels. I like the super efficient panels with lower degradation rates
@@Superiorsolarconsulting watching you video now on panel comparison.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting So I asked at Costco and on their page and this is what they said. Thanks for asking Michael! We offer a variety of Power Purchase Agreements, Lease Agreements, as well as, the option to purchase the system directly from us, all depending on the local and state regulations.
I don't think PPA's are available in Arizona but isn't a lease pretty much the same thing?
@@myke4liberty lease and PPA are essentially the same thing. A PPA is an agreement to buy power at a certain rate for a set amount of time and a lease is paying for the equipment for a set amount of time. It’s the same concept of getting solar without owning it but they are more similar than different and I would avoid both.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting So you are seeing the guys comments below right? You company might be around for a while but other people may not be able to get the servicing that they need when an inverter goes. I have a friend that is an Engineer on an Airforce base at Davis Monthin you should be able to see photos of what they are using there. He says that Inverters are not needed on every panel and only drives up the cost. We also have a huge RV community here and with StarLink people are now going grid. From what I have seen and heard they just look at your bill for the past year, because the power companies don't want to send you a check for generating power, but lets say someone wants to get an EV in the future, a current solar system would not be enough to charge one of those cars. Your thoughts please?
I got problems from sun run, i ask them to remove and re install later because i suppose to do a renovation but they like me to sign another agreement but I read those agreements they are revoking some of my rights that’s why I did not sign the agreement, I am willing to pay what ever the cost for removal and install, but they acting like they own the property as a homeowner I’m stocked
Yeah… common issue
Is it possible to off grid my extension of the house with other companies? Like ur company
Are any lawyers who deal with this. I would like to contact them for help.
I don’t know any who will take it on… that SunRun contract is tight
😕Sunrun didn't invent the PPA any more than Sunpower invented the solar panel.
Sunrun, Sunnova and others don't offer PPA only.
The truth is the SALESPERSON or dealer is who is offering the product to the homeowner, and they often Choose what product to offer the homeowner.
You paint Sunrun here as a PPA only company (not true), nor is Sunnova.
Nice job explaining the math, though. That is not often well laid out for the homeowner and most sales people are just either untrained (not that often) or unwilling(Most often) to explain in depth what all this means to the homeowner. They want homeowners to just buy based on the cost being lower than the alternative - the Utility -> Not unlike buying a car "Just think about your monthly cost/bill, not the total cost of ownership"
but most people forget that you are already NOT owning your electricity. You rent it.
So, a PPA is still a net benefit to the homeowner.
Not fair in the slightest to paint it as a negative for the homeowner.
and yes, you are right, for many there are better options including solar loans and leases.
Nice job putting content out there to help educate.
And appreciate that you focus on getting [most of] the facts right rather than fancy editing.
SunRun does over 95% PPA’s and push their salespeople to sell 9 PPA’s for every 1 purchase. They don’t want to sell you the system
What solar company do these guys work for?
I have about 15 connections throughout the country
Thanks for the information and education for best micro inverter panel system. Now new law is coming for 2023, so tax credit returns to higher rate correct?
Please do some posts on design of micro inverter panel system based on your electric service use. That would be helpful to see how to calculate system design capacity.
Thank you guys
The Sunrun system installed does not cover my usage. This resulted in an end of year "upcharge" from Southern California Edison. To add more panels will cost more money to Sunrun. So there is no savings. Your just paying somebody else your electric bill (actually TWO people...Edison and Sunrun). To save money a battery is needed, (resulting in more money to Sunrun) however, batteries cannot be installed in my area. If your going to install a system take a serious look and getting your own private system rather than leasing. Add to this Sunrun monthly fees go up every year. This is not a "no cost" program. really looking forward to getting out from under this agreement in 4 years. Wonder what its going to cost me.
They tell you how much it goes up on the paper. It's pretty transparent. 2.9% ( A little over the Federal Reserve target rate of inflation)
How much to purchase 17 panels?
It depends on the scope of installation. Feel free to call or text me and I can build you a proposal for your specific project. 760-473-5878
Some of the explanations are correct, but some are wrong.
Makes no sense? PPAs offer the same equipment. You left out (that little nugget) about dealer fees on the loans. Now that the dealer fee is 35% and up for a lower interest rate loan, the cost over time can be significantly lower than the loan. Someone has to pick up the tab on either loan or PPA. You think loans don't have to be paid off? But both are transferrable. The escalator can be a serious scam to homeowners (HOs). However, with no escalator, the PPA can be a competitive option. No one offering a PPA is selling some tier 3 Chinese knockoff panel. PPA doesn't grab outdated crap, as they have to guarantee production. There IS a financial obligation from the provider. Does a loan give an automatic bumper to bumper warranty, including production guarantee - Unless you have some new PPA provider, absolutely not. Enphase and SolarEdge are the only components we've seen from any PPA provider. There can be a problem with them coming out on time, but then they will give a payback. Yes it is a wait to get it end of year. That can be a downside, but service is an issue for EVERY installer out there. What % of customers is choosing a 3x monthly payment for that $60k solar system in 8 years? LOL
Both have pros and cons. I appreciate trying to educate HOs and new sellers, but you have to be fully educated before knocking one or the other. Either you need to update your video, or you 2 are not ready to explain this topic.
I sell loans with almost no fees and so they aren’t expected to pay off some absurdly overpriced system. A PPA works for a super elderly person with no tax appetite and doesn’t care what happens to the debt when they die. Literally that’s it.
Is there anyway to change companies if you have a PPA?
If it’s installed already, no. You can only add a second system that would be one you purchase. If you haven’t been installed yet after signing a PPA you can cancel
So anyone have some review about sunnova?
They're probably the most reputable of all the solar providers. Definitely worth looking into.
@@iJesters do you have them?
They’re a giant
I had just realized that we are on PPA when we assumed the contract. The previous owners of the home we bought in 2021 had told us that one set (sunnova) is paid off and one set (sunrun) is still being "paid off" little did we know after signing the contracts, the sunrun set is for lease 25 years.
My question is, IS THERE A WAY OUT?! Could I sue the previous owner for lying to us?
Home sales require property disclosures so if they did not disclose what you were taking over then possibly.
You must have 2 solar systems as Sunnova does not work with Sunrun. You should be able to buy the Sunrun system after a period of time depending on the state you are from. Your PPA is saving you a lot of money but you were not explained to properly. PPA is not bad because if you were on the normal utility you would be paying more trust me. Do not worry its not some evil scam the owners before you just couldn't or didn't want to buy the second solar system out right. Your Sunnova system was purchased if it is "payed off". The reason for having two systems is you always want to produce more power than you use with solar so that you will get paid from the utility for the extra energy. Then that will cover the energy you use at night from the utility because the sun is not out. So the previous owners likely bought their first system from a Sunnova solar dealer because Sunnova did not sell their own systems until very recently. They get other companies to install the system then Sunnova is responsible for financial things and customer service after. Sunrun is different they directly take care of their own customers and thei system. After a while your previous home owners ended up using more energy then they were supposed to or the first sales person did not build a large enough solar system for their energy needs. So your previous owners had Sunrun help them because they would have ended up getting another bill from the utility and no longer had $0.00 electric bills after the first system was payed off. So they put a second solar system up to replace the remaining utility bill with a much cheaper solar PPA. Not the most ideal situation but you are saving money.
Julian, are you familiar with Sunder?
I know of them, yes
Is there a 30 day return if your not happy?
Nope
Thank you so much!
I'm a ham radio operator, spurious Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) is an important consideration. Any thoughts on the most RFI quiet system? Are micro-inverters quiet?
Would also like to know about this. Hopefully someone has knowledge to share on RFI.
Can you explain why Sunrun installed 40 panels on a 2,600 sq foot home? I bought this home and was forced, by Sunrun, to assume the contract or loose a great house. I bought it in November, no problem initially, but by march I was paying $250 to $300 a month for electricity that I was not using. The previous owner purchased a 18 panel system from someone else previously. Sunrun sold him an additional 22 panel system, on top of what he had. OK he was an idiot preyed upon by scammers. First year, I paid $2,500 over what I used and was given back $400 by Utility company which dissapeared at true up. We have been fighting since 2008. They turned me over to a collection agency, trying to collect the total cost of the system installed in 2009. Sunrun is a horrible company that will oversize your PPA system. More they install. More you pay.
Yikes. Sorry :/
In order to get locked into the NEM 2.0 program before the passage of NEM 3.0 (if approved of course), how far along in the process of buying and installing solar panels will you officially be locked into NEM 2.0. Are you in after all the work has been completed and your panels actually start working or are you in once you’ve signed the initial contract in the beginning stages? thanks
ROI on solar is less than painting your house. The lies are getting mixed with the half truths😂😂😂
Painting your house doesn’t save money. It’s just a cost of homeownership
What solar company do you recommend? And do you think solar roof top as a good idea?
Ok so you guys want me to buy some solar panels + backup batteries for over $60k and get stuck with some old and worthless panels in 20 years, when I can lease them for about the same price I pay to lease my Comcast equipment and service with full warranty and replacement for both batteries and panels if anything goes wrong and in 25 years I can walk away or get a set of new panels and batteries installed?? Somebody make this make sense. Every home owner I know working with Sunrun has it installed on their own homes, so at least you can say they believe in the product they sell. Now I’m not saying Sunrun has the best product out there or you should trust them. But these guys are sales guys themselves and obviously trying to influence people to take loans and interest with banks. Best to do your own research in order to make informed decisions, instead of relying on some RUclips videos.
Uhhh, your idea about how Sunrun maintains the systems is far from reality. First off, your solar panels are never going to be replaced. Sunrun is never going to come upgrade your equipment. You are stuck paying far far more than a wisely financed solar system under false impressions of not having the liability and a free battery in 15 years. There are certain situations when the lease is the right move, but to say you’re scared of a $60k loan which would end up being a net of in the $40s would be the same system that would likely cost over $100k in payments through a PPA
You said early in the video that 10 or 15 years ago before PPAs were developed, a solar cell system could cost $60k to $80k. Given power prices back then, what was the simple payout on these systems or were people doing them for other reasons such as they just believed they were the right thing to do? I totally agree with your comments about going with better quality parts but don't use have the same issues if you buy your own system versus a PPA if you don't take the time upfront to educate yourself and just don't go with whatever the salesman quotes you.
Before around 2010, in California at least, it was only for the purpose of going green
Great video, My thing is the solar company sunrun says they will not cover anything that goes wrong if I finance, Like the LG Chem battery will not be replaced after 10 years
Battery warranties are 10 years.
Do you recommend a solar company in the Lake Elsinore/Riverside county area?
Yes give me a call. I have a few options for you. (760) 473-5878
Julian I didn't buy the system or leased the system from vivint there was s 3rd option of just having it on my home and jm just paying what us producing but there was s problem recently long to explain where can I contact you to explain my situation
These guys make it sound like a PPA is a debt or some horrible program. I'm using energy either way, either I pay a high cost with the electric company, or a much lower rate with a PPA. With BUYING the solar system, I have to worry about having a lien on my home, the property tax increase , and if I was to get a loan I would be paying the interest on that as well. A 50k system at 2% interest rate, in the 25 year I have that loan... I would end up paying 82k. The Tax credit will save me some money right? Here in California the tax credit is 25%. That's only 12500 off. It's not much in the big scheme of things. Adding a 50k system on a home doesn't add 50k to the price tag of the home. An appraiser will truly determine the value of it. Seriously, like everything else, that system will age and there's always some new technology coming out. Regarding the PPA, If the home I was to purchase had a rate from 10 years ago, I'm all over that! Heck, if it had rates from 5 years ago im even happy with that. Edison electric company inflation rate is 9%. So why are these guys complaining about 2.9%? I guess I just dont see the logic these two guys are trying to make. It just seems very bias. I'm currently shopping around and doing my due diligence and educating myself. But everybody's difference... Maybe one system works better than the other for some people. Just ask the right question. Good luck out there people.
I was going over the comments to see if someone has the same concerns. Today I talked to a Sunnova's affiliated partner and they explained the differences between Purchase/Finance, Lease and PPA. To be honest, I think PPA is a whole better option.
Purchase/Finance: Like you said, it will increase my property tax, it will put a lien on my house, and I'm responsible for all maintenance and repairs. Plus, if I need to get a loan to buy the panels, the bank will probably ask for insurance on that as well. The most important downside is the increase on the property tax and the repairs and maintenance.
If I have the cash to purchase, I would rather invest that somewhere else.
Lease: The downside is that no matter how much energy the panels produce, you MUST pay the fixed rate every month. Plus, at the end of the lease, those panels are not yours. No property tax increase. And no maintenance fees.
PPA: Flexible monthly payments based on consumption. After the 25 years you get the option to keep the panels, but you will have to take care of the maintenance and repairs from that point. And this does not put a lien on your house. They mention that they put a UCC, but this can be removed if you want to sell the house.
Again, no increase in property tax and no maintenance for the first 25 years.
I first believe what this video was saying but today's meeting clarified some other stuff. I never thought about the property tax and the lien on my home. This is huge thing.
@@luiskim4819 in regards to the UCC with the PPA program, they put the UCC on the panels, not the house. It makes sense cause if you're not making payments they would want their equipment back.
@@cyndeenguyen2394 Correct. The UCC is on the panels but it will be on the house title stating that the panels belong to them.
So if I want to sell my house I could ask them to remove the UCC until the escrow is done and then they would put it back.
This sounds fishy but as long as it’s on the agreement I think I would be okay.
Now I’m doing some more research and it seems that California would exclude the installation of solar panels from the re-assessment. Meaning that my property tax would not change.
I guess I have to make more research…
Anyone here have sunrun if so how has the experience been? I am looking to move into a home rich has sunrun installed. All I see online are negative reviews and no positives so I am a bit worried. Anyone have a good experience with sunrun?
I’d negotiate with them to buy out the PPA or something depending on how much time is left
I work for sunrun so I see the whole systems everyday.
#1. Escalator program is only 2.9%. You won't pay 2x your bill, it would be more of a $40 increase in 10-15 years if you start out at $140, for example, it'll take around 15 years to reach $180 where with a loan, you'll start off at $180 but for 25 years.
#2. All maintenance is covered 100%, you can't service 800k people and bs everyone into paying 2-3x more than what the maintenance cost is being a service based company, that's too risky and not true.
#3. You're right about equity, but equity is a 4% increase. However you can sell the house with the panels and price it where you'll get a good ROI, but it's a hassle if you're moving & haven't paid off the solar.
#4. Moving: that's a lie that it requires effort bc sunrun completely handles moving, with a utility company you have to call and them and end you're plan, sunrun handles the transition. And who doesn't want a lower bill, well back to the 2.9% escalator, the next homeowner will still be at a lower bill regardless. By 10 years, solar will be very inexpensive, purchasing that panel is an option anytime.
#5. Cheap systems: You're right to a degree, the seller has many options to choose from and sometimes they will choose the system that will bring them the most money while saving you a good amount, that's why you have to ask what panels they offer and which ones are right for you. Personally I won't ever sell a system that doesn't bring my prospects quality and savings, there's a lot of different options however and yah it takes a level of attention for even a sales rep to understand what the right system to use is.
#6. Yes Microinverters last longer, they're also more efficient in shady conditions. However sunrun uses power optimizers which cover the impact of shading that limits string inverters. Reliability, sunrun fully covers any damages to all equipment from us. String Inverters + Power optimizers are cheaper compared to micro, but micro beats in reliability long term.
A 2.9% escalator over 25 years actually does double your payment almost exactly. A $200 payment at year one will end up being $399 year 25.
I need to take a minute and respond to all your points soon. I see a lot of misunderstandings on your part
thanks, guys for this informative information. I think people should watch this video before having solar energy. I asked many guys who have solar energy on their roofs but they are not honest and give me a clear answer. Some of them wondered why they still paying high utility bills. Most of them don't know how their solar energy works which is fu.....up. well, I'm not so much interested in solar clean energy. If you are a Christian and read the book of revelation, it will tell you that the earth is not going to get better and it will be worst. The earth will be destroyed by fire and everything on it will melt. It will happen soon. "THE RAPTURE". people....
This is far from accurate especially when it comes to depreciation of the systems value, upfront costs, and the common scenario of when the new owner doesn't qualify for an additional loan of a system.
I don't sell people on the idea they are going to transfer the loan at all. In fact, I mostly sell a particular CU's loan product which doesn't transfer at all. People get more for their house with a paid off system.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting you guys are a joke just trying to get more people to buy from you guys. The average homeowner moves every 8 years. In 8 years the system will probably depreciate over 30% and if the full 50k + interest is paid of it will only raise about 10-15k of the properties value.
@@ChristianSanchez-ix1bo if the average ticket was 50k and the avg home value increase was 10-15k then you’d be right. You probably sell for like $5-6/w so in your mind buying it doesn’t make sense. But, if you set people up with non dealer fee loans where they won’t have to pay all the interest in the event of paying it off early and you sell it at a fair price then the scenario you painted doesn’t exist. I would say the average system is 25k. That means they are in $18,500 net. If the system depreciated 30% in 8 years that means the system is worth $17,500. So, rerunning your scenario with bigger numbers, the cost of the system was $1000 plus the interest portion of the payment which I guarantee is a hell of a lot less than risking it with a PPA which is disguised as $100,000+ of debt. I know, I’m such a joke. Maybe you should try making your first video by explaining how I am wrong?
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Can a recommend a book called Hot, Flat, and Crowded? It's also on audio. They us this in their courses at David Lipscomb University for their Sustainability Masters degree program. My thoughts are that most people will end up getting an EV in the future, they will want to get as much free power as they can from the Sun, as long as the price isn't too high. It's important to know how much the panels are and the equipment and the mark up to include the labor to have these systems put in and the length of time to takes to put a system on a home. SunRun said that in Tucson its a 4 month wait, before they even start. That is too long in my opinion.
@@myke4liberty I agree, it is too long to wait, but the utility companies in AZ are just about the same as everywhere else in the states. Best part of solar is you become the producer of energy.