So what do YOU think...is solar worth it? Compare solar quotes with EnergySage here: www.jdoqocy.com/click-101272092-15911423 Thanks to EnergySage for sponsoring a portion of this video.
Natl. driving mi. avg 15k Natl. car avg 25 mpg = 600gal x$4 gal fuel $2400 fuel saving - Elec bill $2400/ year $4.8k in savings/yr.!! So a $30k investment 6.25yrs to brerak even? Smart move my friend 👍
How can Home Assistant be used to further optimize your energy management? Could you pre-cool your house when there is a surplus of solar or pause charging and reduce cooling during price peaks to support the grid? Do you use window covers to improve isolation and reflect sunlight when/where it's most needed?
@@traskth At 48k, it would take me 26yrs to pay it off here in Texas, where electricity is cheap. That's assuming 0 maintenance. That ROI isn't very good. Texas isn't very solar friendly either, you know...big oil.
I did my homework and invested in EFFICIENCY FIRST. Then I bought my own solar and battery system from a wholesaler and I installed it myself with my background as an electrician. I paid about $13,000, took the 30% tax credit on that, and my solar system with batteries saves me over $2500 per year. Return on investment is less than four years and I can go for weeks with the power out and the only thing that goes down is my hot tub.
This is a way better representation of solar. Costs will be a bit higher with added Labor but not Tesla levels. And his ROI is really high as well, 13 years is like what we got in 2005.
@@Caligiant I have a high-end audio system that I discovered draws about 75 W of power when everything is off. I put that on a switched outlet. I changed out all of my lighting to LED and it is operated off of my iPad. Got rid of my old power pig television, got rid of my old power pig refrigerator. My new refrigerator is big and it uses only 900 W hours per day. And a few other little things so I didn't spend a ton of money. My house is only 950 ft.²
I’ve had solar for six months now, and am so happy with it. We have $0 electricity bills, and saved even more money by going solar through a co-op. Great to hear about your experience after two years!
Dude, Those numbers are crazy to me. I live in denmark, in an average house, and i use 2300kWh in a year! You use 30kWh at night, and thats almost a weeks use of electricity for me.
@DaKooler I thought the same thing D: @jasonpwright I life in germany and my flat has natural gas heater, but the consumptions is being converted to kwh. Last year I used about 4000 kWh natural gas. So I have to pay 3500€ per year for heating and electricity
You've got to include EV charging, we have 2 Teslas and that makes a massive difference in the amount of electricity used, it's cheaper than a normal car, but the figures on the bills of kwh used is quite scary
In Arizona, temperatures are over 90F/32C for major part of the year. I'be been here for 2 years and I felt that summer starts April 15th and ends October 15th. This accounts for the majority of electricity costs.
I recently got silar installed at my house in India about 3 minths ago, and here are a few dufferences I noticed between the cost breakdown of your system vs mine A few things to note Our homes are much smaller than those in the states In my city we need aircon only about 4 months a year, plus it doesnt get very cold so heating costs are not a factor for us We also dont own any electic vehicle Ee went for a 3 kW on grid system so no batteries involved. The total price of the entire system was 178 k INR and after 79 k in cash subsidy it cost us 99k INR (1,200 USD). Thats pretty cheap. The system can not cover our demand in the summer but the idea is since our electimricuty usage in winters is next to nothing (only lights and other daily use appliances), we plan to build up credit in the winter months and use them in the summer months to be net zero over the course of the entire year. Based on our electricity rates and consumption, i expect out system to break even in 4 years. With a 20 year warranty on panels, thus is a steal. Free electricity for atleast 16 years maybe more. And when we switch away from petrol, installing more panels isnt that difficult so yeah, solar for the win😂
Protection from the grid's unpredictable outage is, in itself, priceless especially in the era of cyberattacks and freak weather patterns! Also, I'm thinking the property value may be somewhat enhanced! But the overall peace of mind is, no doubt, incomparable! Thanks for sharing @SmartHomeSolver
One thing people often forget is the opportunity cost of interest on the up front cost. If you invest the $31,000 (48k-rebates) at 6% interest you get $155 per month to start. By my calculations it's 25 years until break even. This assumes $200 savings/month with solar, compounding interest, and no maintenance or degradation. Of course it's difficult to put a number to the comfort of not worrying about electricity. Also possible rate increases in excess of inflation.
Bill Shock!!!! This is the first year in the last 12 that we are home during the summer months and not up in the GA mountains. My electric bill last month was $336 where as it never went higher than $150. We normally averaged between 18 and 30kWh on average, but last month we hit 54kWh on a lot of the days. I will be starting my DIY solar installation next month and it will be completed in 3 phases. Can't wait to get started! Great video!
@@suzannebinsley5940 The transition is starting with my first roadblock. The EG4 6000XP is back ordered until mid-September. So I am moving to the next phase purchasing the batteries and in September I will get the EG4 unit. Bummmer
54kwh a day? 😮I averaged between 10 and 12kwh, most of it used for cooking. Either you live in a palace or something very inefficient is draining all your power.
@@ChillingSpartan I live in Central Florida with daily temperatures in the mid 90's. My house is not insulated (was built in 1956), the attic is 138 degrees mid afternoon and the sun is brutal. When we were not home from June through September the thermostat was set to 81 so the bill was not that bad. Being home June... and the thermostat set to 76/74 makes the HVAC work a lot harder $$$. On those days the HVAC starts and stops 79 or more times in a 24 hour period. The HVAC package unit is 20 years old this year, so it is not the most efficient either, but works great. I just received my EG4 6000XP Off Grid whole house inverter the other day (back in stock early), 14kW battery next with Solar to offset some of the bill. Do not care about pay back as I will consider the good feeling of just not having to pay the Electric company good enough. Let the fun begin
I paid around what you paid, I only got 1 power wall. One thing about break even - now t hat I generate my own power, I use a ton more (for free). No more setting the thermostat to 80 when I'm gone. I use as much of my power as I can, I dont get credited for my excess.
This was a very nice video. I live in San Francisco and have 9.1 kw of solar panels installed at a cost of ~$21K after tax credits. I estimate that I will get 10,000-12,000 kwh per year. Since PGE utility costs are ~$0.50/kwh this is a return of $5K/year or ROI of ~20-25%. Furthermore, if PGE increases my utility costs, then my net returns do not change. One other item worth mentioning is that the return on investment is tax free. If I put $21K into CD bonds and got 5% interest, I would be paying 30-40% income taxes on the income from this investment. Note this assumes, that I have no future failures and expensive repairs on my solar panels.
One thing not mentioned is when the utility and local government are ‘run by crooks’ factor. When I bought my system, the lowest my bill could be was $9.87. But since my State has a gov’nt authorized monopoly, they raised the minimum bill to $28.97 for everyone… and blamed solar customers for it. So check out how your local utility is run and how rates changes are approved.
@@leebannister3759There is some truth to that. If you pay nothing to the electric company, less money is going to maintain the tranmission lines, add new ones, etc. The cost of maintaining those lines doesn't go away when you switch to solar. This shifts the cost to people who don't have solar which I don't think is fair as not everyone can afford solar.
@knightlancer97 yep. A lot of people want the best of both worlds. A company has billions invested in generating electricity and distributing that power to people. People with hybrid systems want the ability to use their power company when necessary, and don't expect there to be any costs involved. If you don't want to pay for electricity from your provider, just disconnect from the grid. Problem solved.
It's definitely worth doing the math. I bought a home with solar a few years ago and inherited a financing bill but also energy credits (Long Island, NY). However, since adding an electric heat pump to reduce 95% of my oil bill and a hot tub, I started burning through credits. So I had a talk, did the math, more talks, and am in the process of adding more panels and aim to be net positive with future proofing. Couldn't justify the Tesla walls but wanted one. All in all, once again, worth having a discussion and doing the math.
NJ just got slammed with 100-300% increases in electricity from Atlantic City Electric… if your bill was 200 here it’s now 400-500 a month for same usage as last year! Your ROI in NJ would be 2.5 years
for a person that is doing this to save money, why would you use the old style air conditioner. mini splits use way less energy, and other options for home appliances. Also tesla as a option cost more too,,, I thought this was about saving money? was this a tesla commercial about tesla solar and tesla cars?
Great video again! Im in arizona as well and finally getting solar but I’m going with Ecoflow Pro Ultra system. My question for you is what’s the brand of solar panels did you use? Also, are they 400w? Thanks again.
Good clear explanation. Here in California the PGE rates are insane. So maybe your system would pay off faster. Unfortunately the state may allow the power companies to charge a sliding connection fee to the tune of 30 to 100 dollars. Plus no net metering.
Great review. I wish our Tesla Solarroof generated what your panels do. But, we have a massive (50'+) tree in the backyard just South of the house and the tiles are not the as efficient as your panels. Still we get to net $0 for electricity all year round, even with the high PG&E rates. We find that solar with batteries is one of the best upgrades we did to the house.
When you buy a car, how long does it take to pay itself off?, the answer is never, same with almost anything else you purchase, solar is one of the few things that can actually pay for itself, for me solar is more about being self sufficient, I have an off grid system and I never think about how long it's going to take to recoup the money I put in to it, just like when I buy a refrigerator or some other appliance
That's a gigantic amount of electricity use per year. I didn't realize a single house could use that much, even with multiple electric cars. I know power is a lot cheaper in the states and there is more sun, but it still seems a lot can be done to improve the energy efficiency and reduce energy use. For reference, houses here in the Netherlands have triple-layer glass, wals, roofs and floors which are well over a foot think and have multiple layers of isolation.
A large chunk of that cost goes into AC costs. It's lower in the upper states, but Arizona is known for being very hot for a long portion of the year, so the AC is running a lot.
@@ericlancaster2889 Netherlands is slightly colder. It doesn't matter that much if you need to heat or cool 20 degree C. Both have the same thermal and heat pumps are the same technology as AC. The main difference is the time between summer and winter which is pretty mild here. It's all more reason to build better insulated housing in Arizona.
Yeah, it’s a lot harder to throw out virtually all the housing in the U.S. and replace everything with housing that is built to PassivHaus standards. You’re also much further north than most of the U.S. So, of course your houses are much better insulated, with much better windows, etc…. And you don’t have to worry about running massive air conditioning units throughout much of the year. But I lived in Brussels, Belgium, and in a house that was built in 1910. And if Europe keeps getting heat waves like some you’ve seen in the past decade or so, you might have a larger percentage of people dying from heat stroke than you have historically had.
I spent a bit under $48k for my solar as well in CA. Sadly that only included a single Powerwall. Wish I could have gotten more but oh well, maybe in a year or two. I got a $14k federal rebate, and the last 2 years I have saved $7k a year on electric bills (yes, in summer months my bill before was $650~/mo). So I am $28,000 paid back on the initial cost in just 2 years. Only 3~ more years to go and my system will have broken even. 😁
Beyond the $0 bills, it's fantastic knowing you are helping the planet, reducing pollution, and relieving stress on the electrical grid, so thank you for upgrading.
Always loved the humor in your videos! Very interesting; thanks for sharing. In the Great North unfortunately Solar does not cut it; we need way more energy to heat our homes than AC demands and we have obviously less sunlight.
My gas compan;y has a $25/mo "monthly customer charge" regardless of usage. I just switched that over to electric. Edit: i've got the only house in the 'hood with no gas meter now.
Resale value.....I have solar panels on my house. I tried to sell it a couple of years ago, and our realtor told us most of her clients walked because they didn't want the panels. We also have cameras inside the house that were recording during the open house days. Even though we laid out informational FACTS about our solar, the other realtors that showed the house lied to their clients about the system. Why they'd sabotage their own sales is beyond me, but I'm glad they did. The house we were going to buy ended up having a termite infestation. *WHEW*
That's insane. I imagine it will change in a few years as solar becomes more common/understood. I'm in California and can't see it as anything but a positive.
i live in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania in an all-electric house. i've been looking at solar panels for the last 5 years and have had at least five quotes from different companies. here are the problems that solar presents to a number of groups of people: 1. solar panel electric production varies wildly between the states of the North and South and out West where there is little rain and cloud cover. Here in PA, based on my own 3 year observations of a "test-bed" of solar fans i created, one can deduct 1/3rd off a year's 365 days for clouds, rain, snow, overcast. that leaves about 244 days of "possible sunshine." out of those 244 days, i've found usable amounts of solar electricity is only available about 10 hours per day. the average panel produces about 3000 watts or 3kw in a 10 hour day. that equals about 90kw in a month. my 2000 sq.ft. electric house uses at least 2500 kw per month. using those numbers, my house would need at least 30 solar panels to supply my monthly electric usage. most houses, including mine do not have space for 30 panels on the roof. 2. the technology for solar panels has changed rapidly over the last five years and continues to evolve. buying a particular solar panel today based on "today" technology may be over-shadowed by "new and better" technology in just a few years - much sooner than the panels you pick are even paid for! 3. you have to install a NEW ROOF before you install solar panels or you are looking for problems. you CAN'T repair a leaky roof after panels are installed. a 2000 sq.ft. roof install in my area is averaging $6-$8k dollars. 4. if you are over the age of 60, having solar panels installed on your house WILL NEVER MAKE SENSE as you will likely not live long enough to realize any savings at all and maybe even die before the panels are even paid for. THESE are the people that solar panels make the most sense for: 1. anyone who owns a house that is age 40 or younger; 2. anyone who lives in the "sun belt" in the South or out West; 3. anyone who can get good "used" solar panels installed "cheap."
I live in Upstate NY... close to PA with similar weather patterns. I also have 2K Sq Ft home and I was able to put 32 panels on my 12-year-old home (Also on the added screen room). Roof was in excellent condition, so I didn't install a new roof. Keep in mind that the solar panels now add protection and keep my attic cooler in the Summer. I was 56 years of age when I installed them 2 years ago. I have 2 heat-pumps, central AC and 2 PHEV cars. In the Winter season my home easily consumes 3000 kw per-month. So far, my solar system has produced well over 100% of the electric my house requires. I don't think your "THESE are the people that solar panels make the most sense for" is accurate... As far as your "today" technology... while what you said was true, but each year you wait, is another year you're not saving! My solar system has an app that keeps historical data for each individual panel. I would be more than willing to share that data with you if you like. The only thing about my solar system that concerns me is... the government (local and federal) will decide to begin taxing those with Solar to make up for the loss of income to the energy companies. In fact, NYS just recently did so and if that continues, then solar wouldn't make sense for me.
I live in the Oregon, Portland to be specific and we are not known for being a sunny location. My system that I did my self took six and a half years to pay for itself. Now I only pay a monthly service fee of 16.30 and I drive an electric car as well. The money I save in not having a gas car alone has paid for the cost of the system. If you believe it is possible it is, if you don’t it isn’t. Not all things are possible for all people, you make your own reality.
@@covertpuppytwo3857 i think the numbers you quote for number of panels and output are within the range of what i've learned for my house in Pittsburgh. i would be interested in what the time period of "return on investment" is for your system. after talking to five different solar companies, i couldn't get a system here installed that would hit the break-even point sooner than seven years - and that was for a system that was only supplementing 60% of my monthly electric usage. the other point you mention about "coming taxes" may substantially affect both the solar panel home market and electric vehicles. if taxes on home electric production and electric car "mileage driven" tax become substantial (which would not surprise me at all) - the incentives for converting to solar house/electric car use will be gone.
@@jeffericsson7780 i understand electric vehicles do work for some people but i am not a fan and will never own one. i think the electric vehicle "conversion" was a pipe dream and completely unrealistic. i could see U.S. transportation ending with "maybe" 30% electric vehicle penetration. all car manufacturers are already abandoning or radically scaling back their EV plans and Europe has moved back the "internal combustion engine ban" to 2035. i'm sure that date will be moved to 2040 within a few years. while your EV may be very cost-effective now, it will not be when it comes time to replace the battery. the cost of battery replacement is the primary reason there is NO-ZERO "used car" market for EV's.
Ive learned more about Solar Panels watching your videos than anything else I've seen on the web. Since you're not trying to sell anything I can trust your information. I can't do solar unless my neighbors trees get "Chainsaw Disease" but I like to learn about all it. Thanks!!
I installed a 12,400 Solar array with 30kW battery bank for 15k. Payback is in 3 years. Saving about $3000 a year. I don’t live in the desert. I live the in the Appalachian mountains. I also had to install a raised grown array using a pergola design
3yrs X $3,000 savings equals = $9,000. Did you get: a rebate, sell your excess power, or a government tax subsidy? Otherwise the payback is 5 years. Also, I like the pergola idea better than the roof. Need to replace or work on the roof and you have to pay a separate contractor to remove and replace the solar panels,
You have also other factors like power outages that you should calculate in, so the price is high but the benefits are also these factors which speaks for the system
great video . Solid arguments. To me it sounds like you made the right choice. Thank you for explaining the numbers in a clearer more realistic way. Other videos get to complicated when it comes to the numbers
Great Video for Newbies 2 powerwalls and 2 SunPower Solar systems (31 panels) over here We outgrew our 2014 system and installed an additional system in 2023. My only wish was maybe a 3rd powerwall and more panels? We're good for now. It took a little bit to coordinate with SunPower and Tesla to get the monitoring all dialed in. We love it. Our system covers 1 ev eeezy peezy. I don't use the Only Charge EV on Solar option, instead I already know how much the EV needs to charge every night so I set the reserve accordingly. I only use the grid to charge the EV and keep the 2 powerwalls just for the house if that makes any sense. Thankyou for the videos and keep them coming Reed.... What part of AZ are u at ?
Here in Canada people say that a solar setup will usually break even in 10-12 years. But that is without the battery side of the equation. Things vary a lot from place to place though. In my area there are currently no time of day rates or demand prices so batteries only make sense for power backup during outages.
Out here in Indiana, the lobbyists did away with Net Metering, so now we can only sell energy back to the grid at less than 50% the cost we buy it at.... Pretty lame. And even tho we have had repeated rolling brownouts for years, they still do nothing to add in peak demand hours and what not. It feels like they will do anything to make it less likely for people to make their own energy.
Thank you Reed for a good video. People just don't understand that aren't from Arizona. What the temperatures and what it takes to cool a house when it's 115° outside. I have Tesla power walls in my house also and they work awesome. My system cost me $15,000 up front but in the 3 years we've almost paid it off with savings. Keep up the good content
I've been using solar panels since August of '17, started with a PPA (Power Purchase Agreement) with option to buy out the contract at 6 years in. I did that and my all-in cost (what I paid 6 years under contract and amount paid to buy out) was $14K. Done and done. I haven't paid the grid electric company since March of '18. Instead, I have a massive credit that just keeps building up and rolling over year after year. That $14K will pay itself off in just a few more years and the rest is gravy. As well, I drive a plug-in hybrid car and the electricity to charge it comes from my free electricity. Not too shabby.
I would really love it if you would do a video on the kw hours and mw hours etc. The big battery in Australia is 450MWh of storage... this means nothing to me. Or when I read that it takes 280 kWh to drive 1,000 miles in my Tesla. HELP!!! :) I can't find anything that explains these things well, there are many videos but they are all very confusing! Thank you !
Staying connected to your energy company is not "dumb". The only way you can sell your electricity back to the grid is to be connected to your energy company.
That cost is insane, i assume because you used tesla powerwall, in Romania a solar pannel kit of 12 kw of solar + 20 kw of storage + 10 kw inverter costs you around 7500 US dolars, yes 7500. without any incentives . You can also get incentives around 3000 $, bringing the cost of the sistem to 4500 $.
It's easy when you have net metering. Here in Belgium I pay €0.48(incl tax) per kWh used and retrieve prox €0.04 per kWh for pushing energy on the net. Above that we are taxed on our peak bandwith. So, if your peak demand is 5KW you pay prox €250 extra than if you have a 2.5kW peak demand. I have my rolling average peak demand atm at 3.2kW due to solar panels and 10kW battery
The only reason they have net metering at the moment, is simply because they can upcharge the non-solar customers premium for the over production. So it's a net win for the energy company. This changes however when more and more people are going the solar route and decreasing the value for the energy company. And guess what, they don't like to see their profits vanish :) Not that it's any better above north from you :) we are currently dealing with all kinds of upcharges to the point that I'm not going to invest in solar any time soon.
@@patrickd9551 SRP doesn't have traditional net metering. You only get it if you agree to a Demand plan where they charge you a fee for your largest 30 minutes of energy demand in a given month, if you don't get batteries Solar in the SRP territory is almost worthless because with demand charges you bill doesn't change from prior to solar. So with solar in SRP you get batteries to get access to net metering and super cheap energy rates. But SRP still comes out golden because either you pay the high demand charge or you use your solar and batteries during peak periods and SRP has one less home to worry about during major energy demand periods.
If we had those rates in Arizona, my power bill would be over $2000 a month in the summer (May through October) . The only good news would be my payback would be under a year.
a few factors not factored in - i think there is a 30% probability that energy prices could go vertical up 20-25% per yr .... AI and more are drivng energy demand sky high and we are in first inning .... i think 25% chance gasoline prices could double in next 5 yrs - i think 75% chance dollar and all fiat declines signficantly - with longevity meds aroudn the corner avg life exectpancy for healthy 50 year old could be 100 - so main decision point ends up being how long will dome stay in the home
I'd have liked to get a few more panels, but we couldn't fit any more on our south facing roof, our peak/off peak difference is pretty extreme, so being able to fill the power walls with cheap power overnight power, and then sell back at more than that during the day has hugely reduced our payback period of a 5.8kwp and 2 power wall system to around 7 years. But ignoring the payback period we've knocked about 250 a month off our bills, because despite still using gas for heating and hot water the returned solar is paying for that over summer. I've only had a few months with the system, but logging onto my utility and seeing our bill being close to 0 for electricity and gas is great, next step is to ditch the gas!
This comment section is crazy. I live in Texas . I totally get what he is saying. Our summers ain’t no joke. 110 degrees 6+ months + we have hurricanes and tornadoes!! I just ordered 3 powerwall. This Texas electric grid has a third word dependability. Texas is controlled by some really mean people. They won’t even let us tap into the national grid. I had to throw away over 3800 dollars worth of top notch wagyu beef and blue tuna. My system will cost 55k! My bill will be 504/ month. Currently my electric bill guys 600/ month easy !! At this point I don’t look at it as an investment. More of a necessity
We also have summers with 105+ degrees for months and your monthy bill is my annual bill. For me in Europe it sounds like that you live on another planet and it's really sad to hear that you have to think a 55k solar system is a necassity. 55k is the annual average income of 5 years here.
Exactly, this is the part everybody is missing. You're doing the math with today's electricity rates. But prices go up over time, and it just makes the math more and more favorable
Whereas TIME SHIFTED solar energy is a dynamic INCOME in a world where home owners are allowed to participate in the real energy market. (I’m a bit shocked you’re still paying anything for grid access … with 3 PowerWalls it should be negative unless you are feeding an EV - outside of summer daytime charging)
Thank you for all the numbers. Now I am clear that I dont need solar. 13.5yrs... since i wont be taking the system when I move to new house, it is hard NO. Again, great info!!!
@@agentred8732 it 'can' add value, sure. Realtor says the same thing. 30~40k is pretty big chunk to me to invest that 'can' add a value. Especially when I talk to people in my neighbor and think that all those inverters and battery packs are eyesore.
13.5yrs payoff doesnt include interest rates. Most buyers need loans and interest is 10%. $30k at 10% for 15yrs is $322/mo. Total cost of loan with interest is $58k. Payoff for loan will be 26yrs.
This guy bought the most expensive solar gear for his crazy power use. This isn't even close to representing what solar could save you or what even high energy users would need. 13 years is insane in 2024. 2-5 years is way more realistic.
There are SPAN Smart Circuit Breakers so you can control it on your phone and if the Powerwalls go under 20% Battery Backup during a power outage, you can turn off, for example, Air Conditioners or Refigerators to keep the house on
There is also an opportunity cost with your cash. $30k at 5% interest per year is $1,500 per year which covers a lot of the electric bill. But having solar is cool. I am waiting a bit since I am in California, and they just got rid of net metering last year. Also, they want to bill you based on income here in crazy California, so you would still have an $80 per month bill.
That's true about the opportunity cost. One of the biggest reason we got it was to not be so reliant on the grid. We hear about some of the energy restrictions and that kind of scares me. I heard about that bill in California and it's crazy!
I actually wrote a comment above on exactly this. I'm not sure why you have 5%, index funds on average have given 10% consistent for decades. It cost him $30994, his bills are $2,273, at 10% he's actually increased his index fund to $31,820 after one year with free electricity. in ten years (for simplicity keeping the electricity price constant) he would have $42,216 in his index fund and still paying zero for his bills. In ten years his solar system would be worth half what he paid for it so say $20k. he can't really sell it. Its not without maintenance either, so he has take that into consideration. Solar panels last between 20 to 30 years. so in 20 years he should easily have over $50k in his account which keeps giving him free electricity for lifetime effectively, whereas he has hardware he needs to pay to take down and is worth nothing. He also had to do pretty much nothing to set up a direct debit to pay his electricity bills. and he's not tied down to the house to make it worth while. He's pretty wealthy and 100% has investments and knows fully well how bad of an investment this is for anyone that doesn't make money from RUclips videos on advertising this money pit. I would put in $30k into bitcoin in a bear market. in 10 years, I would be surprised it's not worth $300k
It’s not a good investment from a purely financial perspective. But he’s insulated from large electricity price fluctuations, gets to play with solar as a “hobby”, is probably far ahead in terms of net CO2 output, and gets to make RUclips content that makes money. I’m sure it adds up for him. My worry is about system longevity and maintenance/repairs over that projected 20-30yr lifespan. The system also depreciates. New solar and battery tech will be cheaper and more efficient, so it could be that the same size system costs half as much in 10yrs. So many variables to consider. It is nice to see some real numbers though, will help others decide for themselves. Hopefully anyone making this kind of large purchase understands the opportunity costs.
We did ours when we did because of both the tax rebate incentives and that net metering still being offered. I know it will quickly fill up and it's the lifetime of the house/system so even if we add panels later it will still be covered. Also why we didn't pay extra for the batteries. Our bill used to be about the cost of the loan most months between AC in the summer and heat for ever colder winters. So for us it worked out to be instead of paying the power company we pay a bank until we pay it off. That shouldn't be long and will be even more worth it once energy prices keep increasing.
Here in Missouri, I just got a quote from an installer for $34k for a 5.9kw system. I think it's wild that your system is twice my size and has batteries included for only 14k more than my quote. I feel like maybe I'm getting a bad deal if I were to commit to it.
That's really expensive without batteries, those are the biggest cost of systems. I don't think anyone's time or experience is worth that much, lol. You can set up your own off grid and build it over time. You just want to buy the batteries that are in the same bank within like a month of each other. I just split it into 3 systems and built them as needed. Not as slick as a central grid tie but for $25k less that's fine. I have a 3.5kw system with 1,600AH battery bank and it cost like $6k. It's not grid tied like I said, but I have an automatic transfer switch when needed. Make friends with an electrician and butter them up to help you. ;)
I've been looking into solar here in Ohio while there's 1:1 net metering offered. It's interesting that I got roughly 13 years for the system to pay for itself as well(not factoring in probable electric rate price hikes). On one hand, there are definitely better ways to invest the money, but it would be nice to have one less bill to worry about. Thanks for sharing your experience!
I don’t understand how you got 3 power walls for 48k, much less the panels, inverters and install. I was recently told one power wall would cost me 21k, granted it was not Tesla that quoted that price. Do you have the pricing breakdown for your system?
I like this video because you broke down, not only the cost of the solar upgrade, but the state you live in, the incentives and net metering to which you have access, and your detailed usage. You also pointed out how your home had the right kind of Southern exposure. IF ALL OF THAT IS NOT TRUE IN YOUR LOCALE, THEN THINK TWICE, AND THINK AGAIN, BEFORE GOING SOLAR. Also, will your home value increase enough to make the upgrade worth it?
We put in a similar-sized array with no batteries our calculated payback is 6 years. 0$ bills from April to October in Northeast Ohio with two electric cars. It's kinda grey here in the winter, so we do pay a little for part of the year. (we saved a lot by installing it ourselves. The electrical inspector said he wishes the pros did as nice a job as I did.)
I was told I only need an 8kwh to get 100% offset, I went ahead and got a 9kwh set, in full years in 2021 I generated 11.6 MWh, 22 - 12 MHh, 23 - 11.6MWh, and so far in 24 I am at 5.55 MWh. This offsets about 1/3rd my yearly cost, it's going to take me 15 years to get my money back in the solar panels and that's with me putting down 27k so I wouldn't be paying much in interest. I have Toshiba panels and a Solaredge system, would I go solar again? NO
My house is big, and everyone stays home, and we only use 33kw a day. I don't live in Arizona anymore, so yes my ac is smaller and does less. but that is a TON of electricity.
Mm interesting! I was wondering if you also can use dynamic energy from your electric company? Here in The Netherlands we already use dynamic hour prices and can charge ev's on the cheapest hours. We even have a 20Kwh Home Battery that can solve net congestion due to large amount of electrical usage on specific times on a day. We earn a lot of money out of it. That battery does it all on his own with PowerPlay. It's a kind of AI system that knows when the net is overloaded and we get a reward from the electric company's for solving the congestion on the net. Great video btw.
I think your cost is higher because of how big the system is and it is Tesla. However, having an EV vehicle makes this work for you. Definitely a good investment. My biggest concern is what is the damage to the roof? I think I might hire someone for the panel install so if something goes wrong it is on them
Hey Reed I am wondering if your willing to do a video on How you can integrate Solar system into home assistant and be able to have it monitor your electricity usage and let's say you system was to go to a certain percentage during the night how home assistant would start turning things off that are not needed to run ?
You have a great understanding or Net Metering and how it works. I do wonder however, once you break even, will you still have the same panels and Powerwalls? If you put that much mileage on these, do you have a replacement cost factored-in? I'm reading "estimated system lifetime: 30 years" for the panels, but what about the Powerwall units? Also, something must be said about solar in AZ, which is QUITE different from solar in MA, NY or even Canada where sunshine hours are way different (about 1200hrs a year here in QC). Great video! Perfect for getting people interested in solar!
Batteries are the biggest issue with all solar backup systems. If you cycle them between like 90% and 20%, they last 10 plus years at max capacity. After that they lose 20% capacity and hold that for like 5 years or so. You size a system with that in mind and you should be fine with battery and panels for 15 years or more. You don't want to think of a 100AH battery have the max 1200Wh of power, it's more like 900wH. I do think a 13 year ROI is insane though.
I’m in Scottsdale with APS, your system is oversized. The return on power wall is awful, the batteries may not last 10years. So you maybe paying for them after they no longer work. Battery back up only pays if you are off grid. I self installed 12.5kw for a total of $15k after rebates my cost was $9.5k. My payback has been less than 4 years. The paperwork/permits were a pain but well worth the effort.
Eh, the Tesla Powerwall has a 10 year warranty and even then is rated for about ~12 - 15 years before *severe* degradation. However the Powerwall Gen 2 has only been around for 7 years so it's difficult to verify that claim but those estimates line up pretty well for how long NiMH batteries last and the current battery health trajectory for early adopters. However the Powerwall Gen 3 which came out a couple months ago is using LiFePO4 batteries which are known for their thousands of cycles alongside of just overall better engineering learned from the past decade of home-battery storage and has the same 10 year warranty but will almost certainly last way longer past the point of ROI. Just a quick FYI, people buy home batteries for more than just ROI you know? It has the added benefit as acting as a whole house UPS and if your house is efficient enough you pretty much never have to worry about power outages again.
Also, they don’t just instantly break at year 10. You’re covered even with degradation, if it doesn’t retain 70% by year 10 then Tesla will replace the battery under warranty.
Like other solar videos, this is only helpful for people who live in Arizona, and I guess near Reid. Still appreciate the video and hearing about the experience but everything is always apples to oranges.
Certainly! Here's an improved version: --- The $48,000 estimate is probably from a solar company handling the entire installation. However, based on my firsthand experience, installing solar panels isn't difficult. We have solar panels at our weekend house in West Tennessee. Initially, it took some time to get the local utility to permit individual homeowners to install their own solar systems and connect to the grid after an inspection. Now, it's possible. I'm planning to install solar panels at our main house near Nashville within the next two years. Doing the installation yourself can lead to significant cost savings. It's not as hard as it seems.
Who was the third party installer that Tesla used for you in AZ? I'm in Phoenix and was just quoted for solar roof from Verde Solaris. I'm putting in a 35kW ground mount system and considering replacing my 3kW roof system with a 9.2kW solar roof system in addition and curious on the installers available. I'm also with SRP and my yearly usage is around 50MWh/year.
My country has a 1 for 1kw points system, they don't buy as monetary value. But we are not allowed to have batteries and there is an anti islanding rule, so blackouts still mean blackouts for us (legally I mean)
Doing the revert math pondering in my current monthly energy bill here in Brazil, the U$D 48 K would result in a 80 to 100 years payback time (not considering interest nor compound interest). What a whopping different world we live in. Thanks for sharing your rationals. ❤
I think of it this way,. on average- I spend about $3100 a year in electricity,. to install solar it'll cost $48000,. breakeven would be 15 years for me.. and that's if everything continues working at 100% uptime. No dead panels/batteries/controllers, etc.. Is it a "benefit for me"? Not really,. but if it's for a house that is planned to be passed on to family after I'm gone- definitely worth it..
Warning: Here in North Texas Tesla solar maintenance response time is currently 3.5 months. If you get Tesla, count on losing month of production every time it breaks.
This is the best video I've seen on this subject! Thank you! One thing... don't hate me, but it is "fewer" not "less" solar panels :) :) :) Otherwise this video is perfect !!!
You don’t need clear skies to generate power from solar. Some of our highest peaks are partially overcast days where the sun peaks through broken clouds. I would likely have solar if I still lived in Virginia with afternoon thunderstorms
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
So what do YOU think...is solar worth it?
Compare solar quotes with EnergySage here: www.jdoqocy.com/click-101272092-15911423
Thanks to EnergySage for sponsoring a portion of this video.
Natl. driving mi. avg 15k Natl. car avg 25 mpg = 600gal x$4 gal fuel $2400 fuel saving - Elec bill $2400/ year $4.8k in savings/yr.!! So a $30k investment 6.25yrs to brerak even?
Smart move my friend 👍
As a European I can only dream of your surge prices. Our normal price here in Germany is 30 c/kWh.
How can Home Assistant be used to further optimize your energy management? Could you pre-cool your house when there is a surplus of solar or pause charging and reduce cooling during price peaks to support the grid?
Do you use window covers to improve isolation and reflect sunlight when/where it's most needed?
No
Can you go into detail about the batteries?
Of course your electricity bill is $0... you paid $48,000!!!!!!!!!!!!
But one time. Pays for itself eventually
So 😂😅
Just saw the clip, and i got sucked in. Nice job Reed
@@traskth At 48k, it would take me 26yrs to pay it off here in Texas, where electricity is cheap. That's assuming 0 maintenance. That ROI isn't very good. Texas isn't very solar friendly either, you know...big oil.
@@traskththe word eventually is carrying a lot of weight
I did my homework and invested in EFFICIENCY FIRST. Then I bought my own solar and battery system from a wholesaler and I installed it myself with my background as an electrician. I paid about $13,000, took the 30% tax credit on that, and my solar system with batteries saves me over $2500 per year. Return on investment is less than four years and I can go for weeks with the power out and the only thing that goes down is my hot tub.
AND you probably get laid more lol😂
This is a way better representation of solar. Costs will be a bit higher with added Labor but not Tesla levels. And his ROI is really high as well, 13 years is like what we got in 2005.
Can I ask what items you improved your Efficiency in, and what total cost went into that before doing solar?
@@Caligiant I have a high-end audio system that I discovered draws about 75 W of power when everything is off. I put that on a switched outlet. I changed out all of my lighting to LED and it is operated off of my iPad. Got rid of my old power pig television, got rid of my old power pig refrigerator. My new refrigerator is big and it uses only 900 W hours per day. And a few other little things so I didn't spend a ton of money. My house is only 950 ft.²
BS
I’ve had solar for six months now, and am so happy with it. We have $0 electricity bills, and saved even more money by going solar through a co-op. Great to hear about your experience after two years!
Have any hail yet?
Can you?
Tell me your total cost and the size of your house please
Good question..
You should be ashamed telling such a tale
Dude, Those numbers are crazy to me.
I live in denmark, in an average house, and i use 2300kWh in a year! You use 30kWh at night, and thats almost a weeks use of electricity for me.
Most of his electricity use is AC. Does a typical home in Denmark even have AC?
@DaKooler I thought the same thing D:
@jasonpwright I life in germany and my flat has natural gas heater, but the consumptions is being converted to kwh. Last year I used about 4000 kWh natural gas. So I have to pay 3500€ per year for heating and electricity
Is it 90F at midnight and 110+F at 1PM at your house. It is in Arizona all summer long.
You've got to include EV charging, we have 2 Teslas and that makes a massive difference in the amount of electricity used, it's cheaper than a normal car, but the figures on the bills of kwh used is quite scary
In Arizona, temperatures are over 90F/32C for major part of the year. I'be been here for 2 years and I felt that summer starts April 15th and ends October 15th. This accounts for the majority of electricity costs.
I recently got silar installed at my house in India about 3 minths ago, and here are a few dufferences I noticed between the cost breakdown of your system vs mine
A few things to note
Our homes are much smaller than those in the states
In my city we need aircon only about 4 months a year, plus it doesnt get very cold so heating costs are not a factor for us
We also dont own any electic vehicle
Ee went for a 3 kW on grid system so no batteries involved.
The total price of the entire system was 178 k INR and after 79 k in cash subsidy it cost us 99k INR (1,200 USD). Thats pretty cheap.
The system can not cover our demand in the summer but the idea is since our electimricuty usage in winters is next to nothing (only lights and other daily use appliances), we plan to build up credit in the winter months and use them in the summer months to be net zero over the course of the entire year.
Based on our electricity rates and consumption, i expect out system to break even in 4 years. With a 20 year warranty on panels, thus is a steal. Free electricity for atleast 16 years maybe more.
And when we switch away from petrol, installing more panels isnt that difficult so yeah, solar for the win😂
Protection from the grid's unpredictable outage is, in itself, priceless especially in the era of cyberattacks and freak weather patterns!
Also, I'm thinking the property value may be somewhat enhanced!
But the overall peace of mind is, no doubt, incomparable!
Thanks for sharing @SmartHomeSolver
One thing people often forget is the opportunity cost of interest on the up front cost. If you invest the $31,000 (48k-rebates) at 6% interest you get $155 per month to start. By my calculations it's 25 years until break even. This assumes $200 savings/month with solar, compounding interest, and no maintenance or degradation.
Of course it's difficult to put a number to the comfort of not worrying about electricity. Also possible rate increases in excess of inflation.
Rate increase is the kicker. I’m sure it goes up at a similar rate. If not higher to any interest you could get
If you already have a ton of money in the stock market, it makes way more sense to diversify and use that money to decrease expenses for life
Yeah, I was about to type that.
@@jeremyviromekbut the installation isn’t for life.
@@jaromirkraus9034 never said it was
Great video Reed! We installed Tesla Solar 23.085 kWh of panels and 4 Powerwalls this year. We've really been reaping the benefits since the install.
Bill Shock!!!! This is the first year in the last 12 that we are home during the summer months and not up in the GA mountains. My electric bill last month was $336 where as it never went higher than $150. We normally averaged between 18 and 30kWh on average, but last month we hit 54kWh on a lot of the days. I will be starting my DIY solar installation next month and it will be completed in 3 phases. Can't wait to get started! Great video!
We started having raised rates during the afternoon. We have no net metering so off grid or hybrid makes the most sense.
@@suzannebinsley5940 The transition is starting with my first roadblock. The EG4 6000XP is back ordered until mid-September. So I am moving to the next phase purchasing the batteries and in September I will get the EG4 unit. Bummmer
54kwh a day? 😮I averaged between 10 and 12kwh, most of it used for cooking. Either you live in a palace or something very inefficient is draining all your power.
@@ChillingSpartan I live in Central Florida with daily temperatures in the mid 90's. My house is not insulated (was built in 1956), the attic is 138 degrees mid afternoon and the sun is brutal. When we were not home from June through September the thermostat was set to 81 so the bill was not that bad. Being home June... and the thermostat set to 76/74 makes the HVAC work a lot harder $$$. On those days the HVAC starts and stops 79 or more times in a 24 hour period. The HVAC package unit is 20 years old this year, so it is not the most efficient either, but works great.
I just received my EG4 6000XP Off Grid whole house inverter the other day (back in stock early), 14kW battery next with Solar to offset some of the bill. Do not care about pay back as I will consider the good feeling of just not having to pay the Electric company good enough. Let the fun begin
In central California, everyone pays $400-700 and Newsome keeps making gas appliances illegal. They want to make us fully electric to screw us more
I paid around what you paid, I only got 1 power wall. One thing about break even - now t hat I generate my own power, I use a ton more (for free). No more setting the thermostat to 80 when I'm gone. I use as much of my power as I can, I dont get credited for my excess.
This was a very nice video. I live in San Francisco and have 9.1 kw of solar panels installed at a cost of ~$21K after tax credits. I estimate that I will get 10,000-12,000 kwh per year. Since PGE utility costs are ~$0.50/kwh this is a return of $5K/year or ROI of ~20-25%. Furthermore, if PGE increases my utility costs, then my net returns do not change. One other item worth mentioning is that the return on investment is tax free. If I put $21K into CD bonds and got 5% interest, I would be paying 30-40% income taxes on the income from this investment. Note this assumes, that I have no future failures and expensive repairs on my solar panels.
I love the setup of it all, now all I need is a house, enough sun and a bit of money for it all
One thing not mentioned is when the utility and local government are ‘run by crooks’ factor. When I bought my system, the lowest my bill could be was $9.87. But since my State has a gov’nt authorized monopoly, they raised the minimum bill to $28.97 for everyone… and blamed solar customers for it. So check out how your local utility is run and how rates changes are approved.
Vote in different people, or run for office on a platform of not being a crook.
A cook? @@ItotheCtotheE
Yeah, this is happening now everywhere. They are saying it costs money to transmit you solar energy into the grid. Total BS
@@leebannister3759There is some truth to that. If you pay nothing to the electric company, less money is going to maintain the tranmission lines, add new ones, etc. The cost of maintaining those lines doesn't go away when you switch to solar. This shifts the cost to people who don't have solar which I don't think is fair as not everyone can afford solar.
@knightlancer97 yep. A lot of people want the best of both worlds. A company has billions invested in generating electricity and distributing that power to people. People with hybrid systems want the ability to use their power company when necessary, and don't expect there to be any costs involved.
If you don't want to pay for electricity from your provider, just disconnect from the grid. Problem solved.
It's definitely worth doing the math. I bought a home with solar a few years ago and inherited a financing bill but also energy credits (Long Island, NY). However, since adding an electric heat pump to reduce 95% of my oil bill and a hot tub, I started burning through credits.
So I had a talk, did the math, more talks, and am in the process of adding more panels and aim to be net positive with future proofing. Couldn't justify the Tesla walls but wanted one.
All in all, once again, worth having a discussion and doing the math.
NJ just got slammed with 100-300% increases in electricity from Atlantic City Electric… if your bill was 200 here it’s now 400-500 a month for same usage as last year! Your ROI in NJ would be 2.5 years
for a person that is doing this to save money, why would you use the old style air conditioner. mini splits use way less energy, and other options for home appliances. Also tesla as a option cost more too,,, I thought this was about saving money? was this a tesla commercial about tesla solar and tesla cars?
Great video again! Im in arizona as well and finally getting solar but I’m going with Ecoflow Pro Ultra system. My question for you is what’s the brand of solar panels did you use? Also, are they 400w? Thanks again.
Best video I have seen covering electricity self sufficiency . Thanks !
Good clear explanation. Here in California the PGE rates are insane. So maybe your system would pay off faster. Unfortunately the state may allow the power companies to charge a sliding connection fee to the tune of 30 to 100 dollars. Plus no net metering.
Not stressing about paying to much for the electric bill is worth it IMO 🎉nice breakdown reed!
Great review. I wish our Tesla Solarroof generated what your panels do. But, we have a massive (50'+) tree in the backyard just South of the house and the tiles are not the as efficient as your panels. Still we get to net $0 for electricity all year round, even with the high PG&E rates. We find that solar with batteries is one of the best upgrades we did to the house.
When you buy a car, how long does it take to pay itself off?, the answer is never, same with almost anything else you purchase, solar is one of the few things that can actually pay for itself, for me solar is more about being self sufficient, I have an off grid system and I never think about how long it's going to take to recoup the money I put in to it, just like when I buy a refrigerator or some other appliance
You also don't need a generator since you have battery backup. More savings right there!
That's a gigantic amount of electricity use per year. I didn't realize a single house could use that much, even with multiple electric cars.
I know power is a lot cheaper in the states and there is more sun, but it still seems a lot can be done to improve the energy efficiency and reduce energy use.
For reference, houses here in the Netherlands have triple-layer glass, wals, roofs and floors which are well over a foot think and have multiple layers of isolation.
A large chunk of that cost goes into AC costs. It's lower in the upper states, but Arizona is known for being very hot for a long portion of the year, so the AC is running a lot.
Yeah I thought our bill in Australia was high at $90 per month, $200 per month is another level.
Arizona is ahem, slightly hotter than the Netherlands bro.
@@ericlancaster2889 Netherlands is slightly colder. It doesn't matter that much if you need to heat or cool 20 degree C. Both have the same thermal and heat pumps are the same technology as AC.
The main difference is the time between summer and winter which is pretty mild here. It's all more reason to build better insulated housing in Arizona.
Yeah, it’s a lot harder to throw out virtually all the housing in the U.S. and replace everything with housing that is built to PassivHaus standards.
You’re also much further north than most of the U.S. So, of course your houses are much better insulated, with much better windows, etc…. And you don’t have to worry about running massive air conditioning units throughout much of the year.
But I lived in Brussels, Belgium, and in a house that was built in 1910. And if Europe keeps getting heat waves like some you’ve seen in the past decade or so, you might have a larger percentage of people dying from heat stroke than you have historically had.
I spent a bit under $48k for my solar as well in CA. Sadly that only included a single Powerwall. Wish I could have gotten more but oh well, maybe in a year or two.
I got a $14k federal rebate, and the last 2 years I have saved $7k a year on electric bills (yes, in summer months my bill before was $650~/mo). So I am $28,000 paid back on the initial cost in just 2 years. Only 3~ more years to go and my system will have broken even. 😁
Beyond the $0 bills, it's fantastic knowing you are helping the planet, reducing pollution, and relieving stress on the electrical grid, so thank you for upgrading.
Always loved the humor in your videos! Very interesting; thanks for sharing. In the Great North unfortunately Solar does not cut it; we need way more energy to heat our homes than AC demands and we have obviously less sunlight.
My gas compan;y has a $25/mo "monthly customer charge" regardless of usage. I just switched that over to electric. Edit: i've got the only house in the 'hood with no gas meter now.
Resale value.....I have solar panels on my house. I tried to sell it a couple of years ago, and our realtor told us most of her clients walked because they didn't want the panels. We also have cameras inside the house that were recording during the open house days. Even though we laid out informational FACTS about our solar, the other realtors that showed the house lied to their clients about the system. Why they'd sabotage their own sales is beyond me, but I'm glad they did. The house we were going to buy ended up having a termite infestation. *WHEW*
In Australia it is a selling point. 1 in 3 homes have solar so everyone knows the benefits.
That's insane. I imagine it will change in a few years as solar becomes more common/understood. I'm in California and can't see it as anything but a positive.
i live in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania in an all-electric house. i've been looking at solar panels for the last 5 years and have had at least five quotes from different companies. here are the problems that solar presents to a number of groups of people: 1. solar panel electric production varies wildly between the states of the North and South and out West where there is little rain and cloud cover. Here in PA, based on my own 3 year observations of a "test-bed" of solar fans i created, one can deduct 1/3rd off a year's 365 days for clouds, rain, snow, overcast. that leaves about 244 days of "possible sunshine." out of those 244 days, i've found usable amounts of solar electricity is only available about 10 hours per day. the average panel produces about 3000 watts or 3kw in a 10 hour day. that equals about 90kw in a month. my 2000 sq.ft. electric house uses at least 2500 kw per month. using those numbers, my house would need at least 30 solar panels to supply my monthly electric usage. most houses, including mine do not have space for 30 panels on the roof. 2. the technology for solar panels has changed rapidly over the last five years and continues to evolve. buying a particular solar panel today based on "today" technology may be over-shadowed by "new and better" technology in just a few years - much sooner than the panels you pick are even paid for! 3. you have to install a NEW ROOF before you install solar panels or you are looking for problems. you CAN'T repair a leaky roof after panels are installed. a 2000 sq.ft. roof install in my area is averaging $6-$8k dollars. 4. if you are over the age of 60, having solar panels installed on your house WILL NEVER MAKE SENSE as you will likely not live long enough to realize any savings at all and maybe even die before the panels are even paid for. THESE are the people that solar panels make the most sense for: 1. anyone who owns a house that is age 40 or younger; 2. anyone who lives in the "sun belt" in the South or out West; 3. anyone who can get good "used" solar panels installed "cheap."
I live in Upstate NY... close to PA with similar weather patterns. I also have 2K Sq Ft home and I was able to put 32 panels on my 12-year-old home (Also on the added screen room). Roof was in excellent condition, so I didn't install a new roof. Keep in mind that the solar panels now add protection and keep my attic cooler in the Summer. I was 56 years of age when I installed them 2 years ago. I have 2 heat-pumps, central AC and 2 PHEV cars. In the Winter season my home easily consumes 3000 kw per-month. So far, my solar system has produced well over 100% of the electric my house requires. I don't think your "THESE are the people that solar panels make the most sense for" is accurate... As far as your "today" technology... while what you said was true, but each year you wait, is another year you're not saving! My solar system has an app that keeps historical data for each individual panel. I would be more than willing to share that data with you if you like. The only thing about my solar system that concerns me is... the government (local and federal) will decide to begin taxing those with Solar to make up for the loss of income to the energy companies. In fact, NYS just recently did so and if that continues, then solar wouldn't make sense for me.
I live in the Oregon, Portland to be specific and we are not known for being a sunny location. My system that I did my self took six and a half years to pay for itself. Now I only pay a monthly service fee of 16.30 and I drive an electric car as well. The money I save in not having a gas car alone has paid for the cost of the system. If you believe it is possible it is, if you don’t it isn’t. Not all things are possible for all people, you make your own reality.
@@covertpuppytwo3857 i think the numbers you quote for number of panels and output are within the range of what i've learned for my house in Pittsburgh. i would be interested in what the time period of "return on investment" is for your system. after talking to five different solar companies, i couldn't get a system here installed that would hit the break-even point sooner than seven years - and that was for a system that was only supplementing 60% of my monthly electric usage. the other point you mention about "coming taxes" may substantially affect both the solar panel home market and electric vehicles. if taxes on home electric production and electric car "mileage driven" tax become substantial (which would not surprise me at all) - the incentives for converting to solar house/electric car use will be gone.
@@jeffericsson7780 i understand electric vehicles do work for some people but i am not a fan and will never own one. i think the electric vehicle "conversion" was a pipe dream and completely unrealistic. i could see U.S. transportation ending with "maybe" 30% electric vehicle penetration. all car manufacturers are already abandoning or radically scaling back their EV plans and Europe has moved back the "internal combustion engine ban" to 2035. i'm sure that date will be moved to 2040 within a few years. while your EV may be very cost-effective now, it will not be when it comes time to replace the battery. the cost of battery replacement is the primary reason there is NO-ZERO "used car" market for EV's.
Ive learned more about Solar Panels watching your videos than anything else I've seen on the web. Since you're not trying to sell anything I can trust your information. I can't do solar unless my neighbors trees get "Chainsaw Disease" but I like to learn about all it. Thanks!!
Reed, I am with you. Me too. I've generated 126 MWh and I have 4 Powerwalls. I live where a single Kwh is 42 cents
If you live in Puerto Rico, you have a hurricane, solar is priceless. Your house is the only one with the lights on and no noise from a generator
I installed a 12,400 Solar array with 30kW battery bank for 15k. Payback is in 3 years. Saving about $3000 a year. I don’t live in the desert. I live the in the Appalachian mountains. I also had to install a raised grown array using a pergola design
3yrs X $3,000 savings equals = $9,000. Did you get: a rebate, sell your excess power, or a government tax subsidy? Otherwise the payback is 5 years. Also, I like the pergola idea better than the roof. Need to replace or work on the roof and you have to pay a separate contractor to remove and replace the solar panels,
You have also other factors like power outages that you should calculate in, so the price is high but the benefits are also these factors which speaks for the system
great video . Solid arguments. To me it sounds like you made the right choice. Thank you for explaining the numbers in a clearer more realistic way. Other videos get to complicated when it comes to the numbers
Great Video for Newbies
2 powerwalls and 2 SunPower Solar systems (31 panels) over here
We outgrew our 2014 system and installed an additional system in 2023.
My only wish was maybe a 3rd powerwall and more panels?
We're good for now. It took a little bit to coordinate with SunPower and Tesla to get the monitoring all dialed in.
We love it. Our system covers 1 ev eeezy peezy. I don't use the Only Charge EV on Solar option, instead I already know how much the EV needs to charge every night so I set the reserve accordingly. I only use the grid to charge the EV and keep the 2 powerwalls just for the house if that makes any sense.
Thankyou for the videos and keep them coming Reed....
What part of AZ are u at ?
Thanks! Yeah that makes sense what you are doing and that's great. I'm in the south east part of the valley!
Here in Canada people say that a solar setup will usually break even in 10-12 years. But that is without the battery side of the equation. Things vary a lot from place to place though. In my area there are currently no time of day rates or demand prices so batteries only make sense for power backup during outages.
Out here in Indiana, the lobbyists did away with Net Metering, so now we can only sell energy back to the grid at less than 50% the cost we buy it at.... Pretty lame. And even tho we have had repeated rolling brownouts for years, they still do nothing to add in peak demand hours and what not. It feels like they will do anything to make it less likely for people to make their own energy.
Thank you Reed for a good video. People just don't understand that aren't from Arizona. What the temperatures and what it takes to cool a house when it's 115° outside. I have Tesla power walls in my house also and they work awesome. My system cost me $15,000 up front but in the 3 years we've almost paid it off with savings. Keep up the good content
Thanks! I’m glad you understand haha. Wow that’s awesome you’ve almost paid your system off with savings!
I've been using solar panels since August of '17, started with a PPA (Power Purchase Agreement) with option to buy out the contract at 6 years in. I did that and my all-in cost (what I paid 6 years under contract and amount paid to buy out) was $14K. Done and done.
I haven't paid the grid electric company since March of '18. Instead, I have a massive credit that just keeps building up and rolling over year after year.
That $14K will pay itself off in just a few more years and the rest is gravy.
As well, I drive a plug-in hybrid car and the electricity to charge it comes from my free electricity. Not too shabby.
Love the Hibbert ref!
I would really love it if you would do a video on the kw hours and mw hours etc. The big battery in Australia is 450MWh of storage... this means nothing to me. Or when I read that it takes 280 kWh to drive 1,000 miles in my Tesla. HELP!!! :) I can't find anything that explains these things well, there are many videos but they are all very confusing! Thank you !
SOLAR in ARIZONA 🥵☀️is a SMART idea!
Staying connected to your energy company is not "dumb". The only way you can sell your electricity back to the grid is to be connected to your energy company.
Yep the grid NEEDS YOU! and will pay for it
That cost is insane, i assume because you used tesla powerwall, in Romania a solar pannel kit of 12 kw of solar + 20 kw of storage + 10 kw inverter costs you around 7500 US dolars, yes 7500. without any incentives . You can also get incentives around 3000 $, bringing the cost of the sistem to 4500 $.
Nice review and breakdown Reed!
It's easy when you have net metering.
Here in Belgium I pay €0.48(incl tax) per kWh used and retrieve prox €0.04 per kWh for pushing energy on the net.
Above that we are taxed on our peak bandwith.
So, if your peak demand is 5KW you pay prox €250 extra than if you have a 2.5kW peak demand.
I have my rolling average peak demand atm at 3.2kW due to solar panels and 10kW battery
Yes it's a pain here in belgium
The only reason they have net metering at the moment, is simply because they can upcharge the non-solar customers premium for the over production. So it's a net win for the energy company. This changes however when more and more people are going the solar route and decreasing the value for the energy company. And guess what, they don't like to see their profits vanish :)
Not that it's any better above north from you :) we are currently dealing with all kinds of upcharges to the point that I'm not going to invest in solar any time soon.
I will no longer complain that my price increased to $0.14.
@@patrickd9551 SRP doesn't have traditional net metering. You only get it if you agree to a Demand plan where they charge you a fee for your largest 30 minutes of energy demand in a given month, if you don't get batteries Solar in the SRP territory is almost worthless because with demand charges you bill doesn't change from prior to solar. So with solar in SRP you get batteries to get access to net metering and super cheap energy rates. But SRP still comes out golden because either you pay the high demand charge or you use your solar and batteries during peak periods and SRP has one less home to worry about during major energy demand periods.
If we had those rates in Arizona, my power bill would be over $2000 a month in the summer (May through October) . The only good news would be my payback would be under a year.
Great vid, one thing that bothers me though, your array isnt symmetrical!
Thanks! I know right! Luckily I can't really see that it's not symmetrical without flying the drone.
a few factors not factored in - i think there is a 30% probability that energy prices could go vertical up 20-25% per yr .... AI and more are drivng energy demand sky high and we are in first inning .... i think 25% chance gasoline prices could double in next 5 yrs - i think 75% chance dollar and all fiat declines signficantly - with longevity meds aroudn the corner avg life exectpancy for healthy 50 year old could be 100 - so main decision point ends up being how long will dome stay in the home
We pay $0.75 per kwh during peak hours in summer in southern CA. Our state has gone mad.
Totally agree it's worth oversizing, especially if you have any inclination of additional use.
Great video - Thank you for sharing your experience. As someone just looking for solar this is very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
I'd have liked to get a few more panels, but we couldn't fit any more on our south facing roof, our peak/off peak difference is pretty extreme, so being able to fill the power walls with cheap power overnight power, and then sell back at more than that during the day has hugely reduced our payback period of a 5.8kwp and 2 power wall system to around 7 years.
But ignoring the payback period we've knocked about 250 a month off our bills, because despite still using gas for heating and hot water the returned solar is paying for that over summer. I've only had a few months with the system, but logging onto my utility and seeing our bill being close to 0 for electricity and gas is great, next step is to ditch the gas!
This comment section is crazy. I live in Texas . I totally get what he is saying. Our summers ain’t no joke. 110 degrees 6+ months + we have hurricanes and tornadoes!! I just ordered 3 powerwall. This Texas electric grid has a third word dependability. Texas is controlled by some really mean people. They won’t even let us tap into the national grid. I had to throw away over 3800 dollars worth of top notch wagyu beef and blue tuna. My system will cost 55k! My bill will be 504/ month. Currently my electric bill guys 600/ month easy !! At this point I don’t look at it as an investment. More of a necessity
We also have summers with 105+ degrees for months and your monthy bill is my annual bill. For me in Europe it sounds like that you live on another planet and it's really sad to hear that you have to think a 55k solar system is a necassity. 55k is the annual average income of 5 years here.
Solar energy is a fixed cost in a world where everything is getting more expensive.
True!
Exactly, this is the part everybody is missing. You're doing the math with today's electricity rates. But prices go up over time, and it just makes the math more and more favorable
Whereas TIME SHIFTED solar energy is a dynamic INCOME in a world where home owners are allowed to participate in the real energy market. (I’m a bit shocked you’re still paying anything for grid access … with 3 PowerWalls it should be negative unless you are feeding an EV - outside of summer daytime charging)
How long until the tesla battery storage starts degrading and those need to be replaced though?
Thank you for all the numbers. Now I am clear that I dont need solar. 13.5yrs... since i wont be taking the system when I move to new house, it is hard NO. Again, great info!!!
Don't forget to speak to your real estate agent and see what additional price your get for solar in your area.
It can add value to your home
@@agentred8732 it 'can' add value, sure. Realtor says the same thing.
30~40k is pretty big chunk to me to invest that 'can' add a value.
Especially when I talk to people in my neighbor and think that all those inverters and battery packs are eyesore.
13.5yrs payoff doesnt include interest rates. Most buyers need loans and interest is 10%. $30k at 10% for 15yrs is $322/mo. Total cost of loan with interest is $58k. Payoff for loan will be 26yrs.
This guy bought the most expensive solar gear for his crazy power use. This isn't even close to representing what solar could save you or what even high energy users would need. 13 years is insane in 2024. 2-5 years is way more realistic.
There are SPAN Smart Circuit Breakers so you can control it on your phone and if the Powerwalls go under 20% Battery Backup during a power outage, you can turn off, for example, Air Conditioners or Refigerators to keep the house on
There is also an opportunity cost with your cash. $30k at 5% interest per year is $1,500 per year which covers a lot of the electric bill.
But having solar is cool. I am waiting a bit since I am in California, and they just got rid of net metering last year. Also, they want to bill you based on income here in crazy California, so you would still have an $80 per month bill.
That's true about the opportunity cost. One of the biggest reason we got it was to not be so reliant on the grid. We hear about some of the energy restrictions and that kind of scares me. I heard about that bill in California and it's crazy!
I actually wrote a comment above on exactly this. I'm not sure why you have 5%, index funds on average have given 10% consistent for decades.
It cost him $30994, his bills are $2,273, at 10% he's actually increased his index fund to $31,820 after one year with free electricity.
in ten years (for simplicity keeping the electricity price constant) he would have $42,216 in his index fund and still paying zero for his bills.
In ten years his solar system would be worth half what he paid for it so say $20k. he can't really sell it. Its not without maintenance either, so he has take that into consideration. Solar panels last between 20 to 30 years. so in 20 years he should easily have over $50k in his account which keeps giving him free electricity for lifetime effectively, whereas he has hardware he needs to pay to take down and is worth nothing.
He also had to do pretty much nothing to set up a direct debit to pay his electricity bills. and he's not tied down to the house to make it worth while.
He's pretty wealthy and 100% has investments and knows fully well how bad of an investment this is for anyone that doesn't make money from RUclips videos on advertising this money pit.
I would put in $30k into bitcoin in a bear market. in 10 years, I would be surprised it's not worth $300k
It’s not a good investment from a purely financial perspective. But he’s insulated from large electricity price fluctuations, gets to play with solar as a “hobby”, is probably far ahead in terms of net CO2 output, and gets to make RUclips content that makes money. I’m sure it adds up for him.
My worry is about system longevity and maintenance/repairs over that projected 20-30yr lifespan. The system also depreciates. New solar and battery tech will be cheaper and more efficient, so it could be that the same size system costs half as much in 10yrs. So many variables to consider.
It is nice to see some real numbers though, will help others decide for themselves. Hopefully anyone making this kind of large purchase understands the opportunity costs.
We did ours when we did because of both the tax rebate incentives and that net metering still being offered. I know it will quickly fill up and it's the lifetime of the house/system so even if we add panels later it will still be covered. Also why we didn't pay extra for the batteries. Our bill used to be about the cost of the loan most months between AC in the summer and heat for ever colder winters. So for us it worked out to be instead of paying the power company we pay a bank until we pay it off. That shouldn't be long and will be even more worth it once energy prices keep increasing.
@@percy9228 I'm not surprised that someone who's into bitcoin doesn't realise why you would use 5% to estimate bonds rather than 10% lol
Great video, I always enjoy your breakdowns. One calculation you don’t have is home appreciation with solar.
Thanks! That's a good point!
Here in Missouri, I just got a quote from an installer for $34k for a 5.9kw system.
I think it's wild that your system is twice my size and has batteries included for only 14k more than my quote. I feel like maybe I'm getting a bad deal if I were to commit to it.
That's really expensive without batteries, those are the biggest cost of systems. I don't think anyone's time or experience is worth that much, lol. You can set up your own off grid and build it over time. You just want to buy the batteries that are in the same bank within like a month of each other. I just split it into 3 systems and built them as needed. Not as slick as a central grid tie but for $25k less that's fine. I have a 3.5kw system with 1,600AH battery bank and it cost like $6k. It's not grid tied like I said, but I have an automatic transfer switch when needed.
Make friends with an electrician and butter them up to help you. ;)
Great video Reed, my next big project is going to be a solar system, $350/month is painful, this video is really helpful!
Thanks! Glad to hear it was helpful!
I love how the troll post in your video used Paul Hibbert's picture lol
I've been looking into solar here in Ohio while there's 1:1 net metering offered. It's interesting that I got roughly 13 years for the system to pay for itself as well(not factoring in probable electric rate price hikes).
On one hand, there are definitely better ways to invest the money, but it would be nice to have one less bill to worry about. Thanks for sharing your experience!
I would love to see the numbers that are not including the Tesla tax on the equipment. Going with a different system could be a significant benefit.
I don’t understand how you got 3 power walls for 48k, much less the panels, inverters and install. I was recently told one power wall would cost me 21k, granted it was not Tesla that quoted that price. Do you have the pricing breakdown for your system?
I like this video because you broke down, not only the cost of the solar upgrade, but the state you live in, the incentives and net metering to which you have access, and your detailed usage. You also pointed out how your home had the right kind of Southern exposure.
IF ALL OF THAT IS NOT TRUE IN YOUR LOCALE, THEN THINK TWICE, AND THINK AGAIN, BEFORE GOING SOLAR. Also, will your home value increase enough to make the upgrade worth it?
Wow we're paying 66 cents per kWh here in CA, you guys are 15% of our electricity prices
Did the $48K include the battery packs? That’s actually not bad. I ended up paying about $48K and no battery backup.
Yes it includes the 3 Powerwalls.
We put in a similar-sized array with no batteries our calculated payback is 6 years. 0$ bills from April to October in Northeast Ohio with two electric cars. It's kinda grey here in the winter, so we do pay a little for part of the year. (we saved a lot by installing it ourselves. The electrical inspector said he wishes the pros did as nice a job as I did.)
I was told I only need an 8kwh to get 100% offset, I went ahead and got a 9kwh set, in full years in 2021 I generated 11.6 MWh, 22 - 12 MHh, 23 - 11.6MWh, and so far in 24 I am at 5.55 MWh. This offsets about 1/3rd my yearly cost, it's going to take me 15 years to get my money back in the solar panels and that's with me putting down 27k so I wouldn't be paying much in interest. I have Toshiba panels and a Solaredge system, would I go solar again? NO
Crank that AC up!!! As long as you're happy with it, that's all that matters🎉👍. Thanks for the great content
You could also say "As long as you are happy heating up the planet even more"
My house is big, and everyone stays home, and we only use 33kw a day. I don't live in Arizona anymore, so yes my ac is smaller and does less. but that is a TON of electricity.
Mm interesting! I was wondering if you also can use dynamic energy from your electric company? Here in The Netherlands we already use dynamic hour prices and can charge ev's on the cheapest hours. We even have a 20Kwh Home Battery that can solve net congestion due to large amount of electrical usage on specific times on a day. We earn a lot of money out of it. That battery does it all on his own with PowerPlay. It's a kind of AI system that knows when the net is overloaded and we get a reward from the electric company's for solving the congestion on the net. Great video btw.
I think your cost is higher because of how big the system is and it is Tesla. However, having an EV vehicle makes this work for you. Definitely a good investment. My biggest concern is what is the damage to the roof? I think I might hire someone for the panel install so if something goes wrong it is on them
Hey Reed I am wondering if your willing to do a video on How you can integrate Solar system into home assistant and be able to have it monitor your electricity usage and let's say you system was to go to a certain percentage during the night how home assistant would start turning things off that are not needed to run ?
That could be a good video, I’ll see what I can do!
You have a great understanding or Net Metering and how it works. I do wonder however, once you break even, will you still have the same panels and Powerwalls? If you put that much mileage on these, do you have a replacement cost factored-in?
I'm reading "estimated system lifetime: 30 years" for the panels, but what about the Powerwall units?
Also, something must be said about solar in AZ, which is QUITE different from solar in MA, NY or even Canada where sunshine hours are way different (about 1200hrs a year here in QC).
Great video! Perfect for getting people interested in solar!
The Powerwalls will degrade over time but I don’t drain them every night so hopefully degradation shouldn’t be too bad.
Batteries are the biggest issue with all solar backup systems. If you cycle them between like 90% and 20%, they last 10 plus years at max capacity. After that they lose 20% capacity and hold that for like 5 years or so. You size a system with that in mind and you should be fine with battery and panels for 15 years or more. You don't want to think of a 100AH battery have the max 1200Wh of power, it's more like 900wH.
I do think a 13 year ROI is insane though.
I’m in Scottsdale with APS, your system is oversized. The return on power wall is awful, the batteries may not last 10years. So you maybe paying for them after they no longer work. Battery back up only pays if you are off grid. I self installed 12.5kw for a total of $15k after rebates my cost was $9.5k. My payback has been less than 4 years. The paperwork/permits were a pain but well worth the effort.
Eh, the Tesla Powerwall has a 10 year warranty and even then is rated for about ~12 - 15 years before *severe* degradation. However the Powerwall Gen 2 has only been around for 7 years so it's difficult to verify that claim but those estimates line up pretty well for how long NiMH batteries last and the current battery health trajectory for early adopters.
However the Powerwall Gen 3 which came out a couple months ago is using LiFePO4 batteries which are known for their thousands of cycles alongside of just overall better engineering learned from the past decade of home-battery storage and has the same 10 year warranty but will almost certainly last way longer past the point of ROI.
Just a quick FYI, people buy home batteries for more than just ROI you know? It has the added benefit as acting as a whole house UPS and if your house is efficient enough you pretty much never have to worry about power outages again.
Also, they don’t just instantly break at year 10. You’re covered even with degradation, if it doesn’t retain 70% by year 10 then Tesla will replace the battery under warranty.
Like other solar videos, this is only helpful for people who live in Arizona, and I guess near Reid. Still appreciate the video and hearing about the experience but everything is always apples to oranges.
My man is simply living the best days of his life.
Certainly! Here's an improved version:
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The $48,000 estimate is probably from a solar company handling the entire installation. However, based on my firsthand experience, installing solar panels isn't difficult. We have solar panels at our weekend house in West Tennessee. Initially, it took some time to get the local utility to permit individual homeowners to install their own solar systems and connect to the grid after an inspection. Now, it's possible. I'm planning to install solar panels at our main house near Nashville within the next two years. Doing the installation yourself can lead to significant cost savings. It's not as hard as it seems.
Who was the third party installer that Tesla used for you in AZ? I'm in Phoenix and was just quoted for solar roof from Verde Solaris. I'm putting in a 35kW ground mount system and considering replacing my 3kW roof system with a 9.2kW solar roof system in addition and curious on the installers available. I'm also with SRP and my yearly usage is around 50MWh/year.
With my small DIY 2000 watt solar power, having power during and after a hurricane here in Jamaica is priceless.
Not everyone in America builds big. I am looking at tiny, just enough to run the refrigerator and a space heater.
Space heaters use a lot of power.
Been thinking about this lately and this helped! Thank you!
Awesome that you went solar! Question, why didn’t you go with a more efficient/less degradation panel? Was it because of the initial cost?
My country has a 1 for 1kw points system, they don't buy as monetary value. But we are not allowed to have batteries and there is an anti islanding rule, so blackouts still mean blackouts for us (legally I mean)
No batteries?! That sucks. I don't know if I would even bother with solar, if I couldn't have a battery.
@@richardmiddleton5984 thems the rules.. Pretty much u get a 10 year contract renewable but after that it's up to u.
Charging the car during the day only works if you work from home though.
He has Net Metering and charging the car at night on SRP solar plans is like 4 cents a kw
Doing the revert math pondering in my current monthly energy bill here in Brazil, the U$D 48 K would result in a 80 to 100 years payback time (not considering interest nor compound interest).
What a whopping different world we live in.
Thanks for sharing your rationals.
❤
Don't forget to add how much you paid to rig a EV charger on the wall to the ROI calc if you're pointing out savings for your car.
I paid cash for my solar panels and Tesla battery 🤑 I also rent out rooms in my home so I live for free with about 800$ in passive income
13.6 years... But what is the warranty on each component? And degradation of the panels, inverters and batteries?
I think of it this way,. on average- I spend about $3100 a year in electricity,. to install solar it'll cost $48000,. breakeven would be 15 years for me.. and that's if everything continues working at 100% uptime. No dead panels/batteries/controllers, etc.. Is it a "benefit for me"? Not really,. but if it's for a house that is planned to be passed on to family after I'm gone- definitely worth it..
Pluto will always remain a planet in our hearts!
Warning: Here in North Texas Tesla solar maintenance response time is currently 3.5 months. If you get Tesla, count on losing month of production every time it breaks.
This is the best video I've seen on this subject! Thank you! One thing... don't hate me, but it is "fewer" not "less" solar panels :) :) :) Otherwise this video is perfect !!!
great video. Thanks!
Outstanding, well put together video! I live in KY. Don't think feasible for me. We don't get near the sunshine you do.
You don’t need clear skies to generate power from solar. Some of our highest peaks are partially overcast days where the sun peaks through broken clouds. I would likely have solar if I still lived in Virginia with afternoon thunderstorms
Only a 9% increase! As a PGE utility customer, I'm jealous