Did Ford Ruin Their Manual Transmission? (Mustang)
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Why The 2020 Ford Mustang Is Better With An Automatic Transmission
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The 2018 Ford Mustang saw quite a list of improvements. Most notably, the engine increased in horsepower, torque, and redline RPM. Now with 460 horsepower, 420 lb-ft of torque, and 7,500 RPM, surely the new Mustang is quicker to 60 mph than its predecessor! But... it isn't. Motor Trend has tested both cars at 4.4 seconds. Why? Well in 2018, Ford significantly altered the manual transmission Mustang's gear ratios. And it added a 10-speed automatic transmission as an option. Check out the video to see why the 2015-2017 Ford Mustang GT features the best gear ratios, and what effects changing the ratios of the new Mustang had on performance.
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*I spoke with Ford Engineers about this regarding GT500:* You'll notice the GT500 takes a similar strategy to the new Mustang GT manual gearing. It has 7 gears, but 5, 6, and 7 are incredibly tall. Ford told me this was in balancing for street, track, and drag performance (taller gears for street use, highway cruising). I was also disappointed to hear from Ford engineering (about consumers) that there have been complaints about GT350 gearing, and that people want a shorter top (6th) gear, because the top gear doesn't have any acceleration. No kidding, it's for the highway! Again, GT350 follows the old gearing strategy, which IMO is best. People, if you want to accelerate, put the car in the right gear for it! If you don't want to shift gears, I hear they make transmissions that fit your needs. :)
straight facts!
Well said
Woow they need to include a VHS tape explaining how to drive manual with their cars apparently don’t cripple the vehicle though
Engineering Explained people aren’t the smartest
Hurr durr, i put my car in neutral, and it doesnt accelerate. I´ll call ford to change the gearing, because i want it to pull in neutral as much as it does in reverse, just forward! Hurrdy durrdy.! :O
Look at that, he actually drew a car that looks like the car! Someone has been working on their art skills.
Jase Poag to be fair the real car looks like it’s designed by a 4 y/o
@@wollie4649 I think it's a nice looking car. I'm guessing you have some other brand you're rabidly loyal to though.
I think he did that to not confuse it with the Tesla Cybertruck :)
@Keith White He printed an outline and traced it.
@@Kenman884 yeah I agree it's too good
Salesman: would you like to see the available options for this car?
Me: I would like to see the gear ratios.
Salesman: oh it has the 3.73 gears since it's the performance pack
Me: Please show me the INDIVIDUAL gear ratios.
solution: make the manual a 7 speed that way you get 5 fun gears and 2 overdrive gears.
Good point
7-speed manuals are only better for fuel efficiency. They aren't as good for spirited driving, because you're more likely to miss a shift. Think about it.... With a 6-speed, if you tug the stick left, you know you're in the 1-2 gate. If you push the stick right, you know you're in the 5-6 gate. If you don't pull left or push right, you know you're in the 3-4 gate. With four gates to choose from in a 7-speed, you don't have the same certainty. That's why Porsche puts a 7-speed in its mainstream 911s, while reserving a 6-speed for the GT3. It boosts its Corporate Average Fuel Economy numbers, while still giving hardcore enthusiasts what they want.
I have got an idea. What about 12 Gears? You could still use the normal 6 Gears, but the stick has a additional Button, clicky thing whatever, with which you can shift a small gear up.
This small gear can be powershift or just a lever which you can set to any position you like and as soon as you press the clutch it shifts
DragonFire similar to a 13 or 17 speed in manual semi trucks?
@@user-vo9gr2hn9u Yeah. I dont have driven a semi. But i saw them in tractors also.
The 2015-2017 gearing strategy was the one all companies should go with: keep ratios as close as possible and then make your last gear super tall for highway cruising.
Yup. The Miata has this strategy also.
Do a few mods and the trans will be happy
@@dadsgarage420 What mods? Production transmissions don't exactly come with optional gear-sets.
Corvette added that 7th gear. Why don’t more companies do that?
@@dposcuro if you change diff ratio (to numerically higher), you will get the fun back.
I gotta say also, as long as manual driven vehicles stay around in the US I'm happy.
Agreed; Ford has been quick to cut them out. Hopefully we'll see (as rumor has it) a manual Bronco!
@@EngineeringExplained That would definitely help.
Yes, you can look forward to the future of one speed manuals like in most EVs, because ICE is dead. I am sure many people will lament it short term, but the performance potential of EVs is real, and I personally think that is exciting. its only a matter of time before Electric is not just more powerful but also lighter weight. At around 500 wh/kg it starts to become a no brainier which is roughly 2x what is currently on the road as of today, and this energy density will probably be around the norm around 2025 or perhaps even slightly sooner.
Well the problem is that if they half-ass their manual transmissions, the very few people who still buy those will stop buying them effectively killing them for good
@@dreiak please note, even at an energy density of 500 wh/kg for batteries, gasoline still has an energy density of 25 times that number... Even if we assume an electric car is 100% efficient, that's only 5 times better than a low estimate on gas. Assuming 500 wh/kg as our energy density, the only way for an electric vehicle to be lighter than a gas counterpart is to have 1/5th the range. In theory, it may be possible for batteries to someday reach energy densities close enough to gas that an electric car could at least come close to the weight of a gas car, but that's strictly theoretical at this point.
Where my daily drive manuals in traffic/deep city gang?
Yeah but I rock an 03 E39 BMW cause I love spending all my money on coolant.
Gang
Gang
gang right , manual s197
Oof I drive an Fc so rip mpg and just idling in traffic.
"If you bought a manual most likely you like to shift gears yourself" best line ever!
Less wheel torque means less casualties at cars and coffee events.
😂😂
Mustang owners : Challenge accepted
LT4 POWERED I thought that joke was dead🤣
I'm dead LT4
fair enough
Can we just admire the drawing of a mustang that he did😭. I would have drawn a Tesla truck😂
E/E should just make croquis/cutouts but for cars. Fashion students and even professionals do it
He's getting better!
It's perfect!
I have had a 2013, 2017, and just bought a 2021. All 5.0 with manual trans. I actually really like the new ratios. Feels like they’re more appropriately spaced for street driving. Before, the huge dive into sixth was annoying and I usually skipped third when driving in town because they were so close together. I personally like a bit more “legs” in each gear. Even on a road course, mid turn gear changes can be hazardous. Personal preference.. Only posting to help potential 2018+ buyers get a different perspective.
I have a 2015 GT and agree that the dive into 6th gear sucks. Also when someone is going slow on a 45 or 55mph road in front of me I feel caught between 5th and 6th gear because 5th seems like it's revving too high, but in 6th I feel like I'm lugging the engine.
@@weesnaww interesting points. i hope to buy a mustang as my first sports car, a manual
2015 Mustang GT PP owner here. Love the ratios around town and the 19 - 21 mpg. I do wish the trans shifted better though, I also have a 2018 Focus ST and its trans shifts so much smoother. Maybe it's just the weight of the clutch disk, engine mass etc but I really do wish the stang shifted a bit smoother. I can drive the Focus and shift through the gears with hardly any lurching (decel - accel) noticeable but that is hard to do in the Mustang. Oh, almost forgot, I'm almost 71 years old and wouldn't have minded a nice auto in either car but to get the PP in the Mustang was a Manual trans only and manual is the only way the Focus ST came. No problem really, I drove manuals most of my life and I've totally gotten used to it again. Thanks for all the nice videos!
George
Thanks a lot for this very interesting information! I also love to shift through the gears without any shock - I drive a BMW 523i in germany, easy transmission here for my needs.
“What transmission would you like?”
10 speed manual please
Finn Rattrie tbh 7 speed manuals are the move. Give me a 6 speed “fun” transmission and a 7th “eco” gear
I got a 10 spd manual, in my freightliner cascadia that is.
Finally Fast & Furious can film the movie they always wanted to.
Ford should've mount 15-speed fuller already on the new mustang
So basically you want three or four useless gears. Hell I don't use the first three gears in the ten speed that is in the Kenworth I drive at work.
My theory is that less aggressive gearing means less crowds killed.
The ditches will be happier too.
@@MrTheHillfolk ditches need to eat too
I don't think that would help- it is more likely to lose traction with smaller gears- but when you do in a big gear you are more likely to lose the car completely- you are also potentially faster- which leads to worse impacts
@@melov7629 We just have to make sure.
@@melov7629 About as dead as the dodge boats.
Now I see the need fo a 4:10 final drive. My local Ford dealer is advertising the heck of those 4:10 kits straight from ford.
Keep it up! You're the best at this!
Thanks for expanding my knowledge! Love your videos!
I stopped watching car videos because I'm depressed I can't afford them
Same. A long time ago, actually.
I bought a car 2 years ago, and took a break from everything car related, but here I am again looking at GTs and ND Miatas
@@AlumarsX looking at an nd miata but can't convince yourself it's good enough to daily drive? Check out the new veloster turbo or n
Bro. I denied my passion for cars since child since I wasnt rich and none of my family members and friend ever wanted to borrow me a car or teach me how to drive. I kept hating the idea and Slowly trought the years, the idea of buying a car got into my head and last year at my 26yo after I started a barely descent job (wasnt easy) I got to some how, with the top of my nails, buying my first car, learn how to Drive and get my liscence. Its a 1999 VW mk3 Golf Which is literally my dream car and I think is perfect. Its nit that much I know, but it means the World to met. Never stop dreaming, stars will align one Day for you trust me. Keep watching vídeos and Learning and you will see
don't worry you only allowed 60 mph anyway
The solution is putting 4.10s in the back
Yes, it's the logical fix, but it's not as appealing as a close ratio 5 speed with a 6th gear added for highway, since installing a 4.10 also increases highway RPM.
@@EngineeringExplained That's why I haven't done it with my auto GT. It often gets nearly 30 MPG on the highway with its stock 3.15s, and I really don't want to give that up. Practicality is so boring!
3.7 by default FTW lol.
@@GuyFromJupiter
>Practicality is so boring!
So is an automatic transmission in a sports car but that didn't seem to stop you. ;)
@@FrontalTraction lol it's fun enough. It's my only car so it has to be somewhat practical. I'll have to get another daily driver eventually though so I can get a gt350, those things are magical.
Ford: "We're gonna stop selling cars, but keep the Mustang to keep enthusiasts happy."
Also Ford: "Let's ruin the Mustang while we're at it."
Hardly ruined. The Mustang is better than ever. The slight misstep in gearing doesn't ruin it; it's just a little less exciting.
@@Antenox Yeah, this wasn't meant to be taken too seriously. I still think it's a good car, but making the manual less fun and calling your new EV a Mustang isn't going to sit well with too many Mustang enthusiasts, I don't think.
@@Antenox I think downgrading your sports cars excitement level, even if it's still on paper a great car, still counts as ruining it. Not in the, burn the city to the ground sense. But the putting cranberries in brownies sense.... Yeah it's alright, some people like it... but it was better before you came along.
@@starvalkyrie And I would argue the word "ruining" implies a magnitude of degradation that this situation doesn't meet.
@@DelanoSeven Fair enough, I get (now) that you were just riffing. That said, I don't think enthusiasts will care or even notice the change in the manual if it wasn't something they were looking for specifically, and the Mach E doesn't impact the REAL Mustang as a car. It just affects the brand name.
I've driven stick for 95% of my driving life and I honestly like their 2020 curve better. I hate having to rev loudly while just touring to get up to speed like the next heavy'ish footed auto driver. I'm competitive but also chill at the same time.
but you're also slower because of the lower gear ratios. Best thing in that situation is as jason said I think. make the lower gears aggresive, and have an overdrive gear you just skip to at highway speeds
Here's my take. I used to drive on the track (Watkins Glen, mostly). This gearing seems similar to what my 2008 135i was. The good thing about that is that you could get up to 140 or so on the back straight without having to shift into 5th, which helps your overall top speed, because it's not a very long straight.
"The guys at Ford hate him" but you can get his skills for just 6 easy payments of $24.99!!!!
Great video!!
The best graduate teaching assistant for automotive RUclips. I love these whiteboard videos.
Good stuff everytime
Really enjoyed this return to an older format. Thank you for the great content!
Let’s be honest and talk about how bad the MT-82 is? 🤷🏼♂️
Brandon Howard, for sure . As I was driving home in my 2019 gt manual and the grind from 2-3., was deafeneing
Brandon Howard
Worst transmission ever
Maybe just maybe you could learn how to drive manual? Just saying
Chrystian Frey the mt-82 is a manual🤦♂️
@@scottross9327 never had this issue with my s197 gt lol
Which one gets better acceleration?
Normal people: "let's test drive them to find out".
Jason : "let's do some math to find out"
the holy whiteboard
Crack out the white board.
Simple - Ford should employ THIS engineer!
Haha, t mobile should give u more gigas
Then you will have less power..
They can't afford him.
Problem is not the engineers it's the higher ups
Just as Michael said, just because the engineers know what they're doing, doesn't mean their supervisors do. When in the end, it's up to the supervisors. I run into this all the time at work. (Not an engineer, drafting technician. But I still design equipment)
I agree with this. I recently drove a 2020GT with the manual and was incredibly disappointed with the ratios. The gears are simply too long for a motor with a redline that high in the rev range. The 10spd compliments the motor much better
This makes me happy to have a 2016... Seems like I dodged a lot of issues with the newer ones
"If numbers aren't beautiful, I don't know what is." -- Paul Erdős
Pleasure of driving.
It's geared that way to maintain the same fuel economy and say, look we gave you more horsepower! Even though it's useless due to gearing.
Or to sell more autos
Higher rev limit plus higher gearing means less shifting, which for 90% of the driving most people will be doing in these cars, is going to mean less effort. The 10% of "fun" driving you do of course is going to be slightly less engaging, but it's going to be so slight you probably aren't going to notice any difference unless you got straight out of the old model and into the new and drove the same circuit.
J.L. ………….simple as that ! and if you cant do in the first 4 forget it !!!!!!!!!
advertised SAE horsepower ratings are measured at the crank... and spacing the gears out even more just means you're lowering your RPM even further on shifts, meaning you're reducing the power output even further. The only thing I can think of is Ford keeping the ratios linear to prevent the simple minded from trying to prematurely shift from 5th to 6th while the engine is only at like 3200 rpm and almost stalling while at a not entirely slow speed
Can someone explain to me why more aggressive gearing would give you better acceleration when in the first 2 gears the car’s acceleration is traction limited anyway?
I really enjoyed this comparison Jason. The explanation was super easy to understand. But I would like to know, what if you threw the new Ecoboost high performance model into that mix? I understand it's a different type of vehicle, but what about the fun factor? On a daily use, would it be better/funner than it's V8 counterpart?
Nice info. I like the fact that you use correct definitions such as "RPM" and LB-FT, unlike many youtubers saying RPM'S and FT-LBS which drives me nuts.
I love your videos! I'm a student of mechanical engineering and your channel, and smarter every day, are two big reasons why I found interest in engineering and decided to pursue it! It's so cool to see the math and science behind how things work. I love cars too and did an emphasis in automotive technology but your channel helps me learn more every time I watch it. I should be graduating next year, thanks again!
I live in germany and shiftig with the Mustang 2018 feels nice. Just because normal driving speed is around 100 mph, and then shifting in 4. gear and go up to 150 mph is a lot of fun. In other countries it might suck. I agree
I think for most people most of the time, the new ratios and higher rev limit are going to mean less shifting, therefore less effort driving in daily commuting, therefore more pleasant most of the time. It's only on those few times you are beating on the car there would be anything lost - and even then it's not going to make much difference.
@@Beer_Dad1975 well said, especially with how many ways these cars can still lose traction because there's so much power.
Here in the US most freeways are in the 65-80mph range, so given the way the speeds are given in this video you really don't need anything past 2nd gear then here in the US, but who the hell drives their car at 75mph in 2nd gear...this is why manual transmissions are going away because people are 1. too damn lazy to drive them, and 2. they have no dame clue how to drive them.
@@Beer_Dad1975 makes all the difference in the World, especially with a NA engine gearing is crucial to how it all feels. Good for you if you don't notice it, but others do.
@@jetara3082 Sure it's going to be more engaging swapping gears more often for the few times you actually want to be doing that kind of thing - as far as actual acceleration goes, you'd have to be some kind of Savant to notice any actual difference. Just for context that's the difference between 100kg /220lb and 102kg/225lb, spread out over your whole body when sitting on a squishy cushioned seat - it's going to feel no different from that perspective. IMO It's just not enough to make a big fuss about.
for reasons i can't yet explain, i feel like your more recent videos have been getting better. keep up the good work. like the cadillac turbo video.
Love the videos! Keep them coming. This channel is my only motivation to finish my mechanical engineering degree haha.
They ruined the manual trans when they put that boneheaded made in china getrag trans in there instead of a Tremec T56 variant.
That was the same thing I was thinking during the video.
*TR6060*
I couldn’t agree more. I love the T-56 in my 03 cobra. I also had a T-56 in a 95 Z28 and while 1-4 is the same in both cars I like the 5th and 6th much better in the Cobra. I don’t see any need for a 3 something first gear in a V8. The T-5s in the fox body’s had a 3.35-1 first gear and it sucked. Wide ratio transmissions should be reserved for the 4 bangers. Lol.
They all have their issues but my getrag works just fine... have put it through hell and finally murdered my first clutch... trans still going strong at 50k miles...
More clutch dumps and rev matches coming my way
The tremec in my 2005 couldn’t have been better. Got a 2012, ended up buying brackets and stuff to make the mt82 work on the track.
My 2018 ecoboost 6 speed works great. Guess it took a few years to work out.
They want people to buy the automatic
It's working too. Look at how many people bought 10 speeds on RUclips that used to have a manual.
Exactly
why would you make your manual transmission suck to make people buy autos
Owen Lee because these new automatics are gonna be faster than any manual. And In theory, making manuals bad is gonna divert more people to buy the faster automatics
@@owenlee4585 so they can drop the manual eventually because nobody bought it anymore. Sad but true
Things like these are so good to know. Thank you for making the video, I never would have even thought about this when looking at a car purchase
A close ratio box is actually a pain when you aren't nailing it. It makes for a very busy time behind the wheel in more sedate driving conditions, even if you want to thread some corners together briskly, you might want to stay in third etc and not shift. The taller gears makes for a "longer legs" feeling - you have a little longer in each gear and a bigger speed range. You also have more revs to work with in the 2020 model, so it's a very wide power band with wider gear ratios. It might feel a bit more flexible to drive when your not trying to drive at ten tenths.
I got 27Mpg over a 200 mile highway trip in my 2016 Mustang GT. Thanks for confirming my manual transmission is a good one.
Only 27? I usually get 32 in my 2003 z06.
@@toodanderson351 Really? What does a clutch job run for your car these days? Better hold onto that gas savings.
@@spareparts7630 about 700 for the parts when I do it myself. Dont need one for at least 100k
@@spareparts7630 I changed the first clutch in my '97 at 194k miles, lol. The total cost was $1300 because I bought a twin disk track clutch as I boosted the power and lowered the weight.
There's a reason that everyone uses the T56: it's bonkers good.
Get an 86, 33mph, 6 speed manual, beats almost every American muscle car on the street
You confirm what my BUTT dynamometer was telling me....I'll be damn.
Nobody would notice a difference 0.02-0.05G in their butt except in their imagination, and even the gearing difference you wouldn't notice unless you got straight out of the old model and into the new one - so realistically it's not going to have any impact on your enjoyment of the car - getting upset about the new gear ratios is silly, you aren't going to notice anything other than you don't need to change gears as often, which is actually going to be good for 90% of the driving most people do.
I guess you and one other person are the only idiots who took my sarcastic comment seriously. Smh
@@merking2001 It was the horrific spelling and grammar in your post that made me think you were being serious.
@@Beer_Dad1975 there princess I made it a little better. Good enough?
that would be your EAR dyno. you hear the engine revving faster so you think youre accelerating faster.
Duude I've been watching your videos for a couple of years... And you always keep surpassing my expectations.
Great job, keep on it!
Ford: we got to water down the excitement of the Mustang so the eMustang feels faster, shows numbers close to the “old” mustang...
EE taking the caps off the dry erasers: Hey, hold a sec...
I absolutely love my 2019 GT Performance Package 2 (manual) and have been fighting off the temptation to trade up to the GT350. This video does not help lol
Buy it
Gave you a like for the extra effort you put in your Mustang illustration 😄
i gotta say i love your videos. I've learned so much about cars because of your channel and i only thought you spoke about import cars so im glad to of seen this video. thank you
Also remember that the Automatic has a torque multiplication at the torque converter. So more force may be able to be applied to the wheels (at least in lower gears).
Thank you for pointing this out! Gearing makes such a huge difference in a manual car's feel and interaction, which is why we buy them. I can't stand the hearing in my 2013 Mustang with the base V6. It can go 80mph in 2ND GEAR! I really need to change my axle ratio but it really should have come with a better one.
2018s make more torque and also rev higher. That's why Ford put longer gears. Put a 4.10 rear end. Problem solved
great video! been trying to decide which gt i want to buy, thanks!
I love your break down of the transmissions, because I was on the fence about auto or manual especially with the MT-82 problems and the cost of the two, but you have helped me a lot, I’m going auto and just pay a extra plus have a peace of mind with the automatic 10 speed transmission.
Your drawing skills are improving 👌
I love my 6 speed mustang GT
You could have resumed everything wrong with the manual transmission Mustangs just talking about the MT 82
I followed this for my 2004 Cobra, stock gearing (3.55), 473 lb-ft of torque, 7200 rpm redline, 3,880lb curb weight.
Speed in gears: 1st-56 (2.66), 2nd-84 (1.78), 3rd-115 (1.30), 4th-149.5 (1.0), 5th-187 (.80), 6th-237 (.63).
Wheel tq: 1st-4467, 2nd-2989, 3rd-2183, 4th-1679, 5th-1343, 6th-1058.
Theoretical G's: 1st-1.15, 2nd-.77, 3rd-.56, 4th-.43, 5th-.346, 6th-.273.
Gives me some new respect for the new GT's. I assumed 3,880lbs curb weight based on some additional equipment. I'm assuming that torque curves may give me an advantage, would that be logical? Plus it's an older chassis and I've been told that compared to the '13 GT500 that it's much more visceral. I certainly love my downshifts to 3rd at 75-80mph.
Thanks for the the great videos.
it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. my new car - 2019 chevy spark - 98 hp. YES !
Reading your comment reminds me of My friend that always tell me “ anyone can drive a fast car, but not everyone can drive a car fast”
Me: drives fast car fast 😺
Anonymoose Mustang I demand proof
I dunno, pretty sure I'm having more fun with an rx7 and a WRX...well... when they run lol.
Theres kind of a limit, once you get bellow about 85hp it starts having trouble accelerating out of corners and stuff, my car is kinda right in that spot. Still though when its in the bends and going its fun
I have a 2011 Transmission in my 2018 and let me tell you, it is a whole different experience... especially with 3.73 rear gears
Jerrett OQuinn surely you built the internals and didn’t use the factory MT-82 junk
Blake Dudley calimer stage 2
Did you do it specifically for HPDE?
saleen367 Negative, its because then stock transmission has 7 neutrals
@@jerrettoquinn4978 Calimer builds some nice stuff. Worth the price
This is really cool and informative! Makes me curious as to what a comparison between the MT82 6 speed manual in the 2018 - current GT and the TREMEC 3160 6 speed manual in the GT350 would look like.
I test drove a 2017 (or 2018?) Mustang base model. I found the shifter to be okay. I thought the clutch was very difficult to use smoothly. Every car i’ve owned for the last 20 years has had a stick shift. I could not operate that clutch smoothly to save my life. On my 20 minute test drive I think I only had one smooth stop to start takeoff. I stalled the car a few times. The experience made me reconsider ever getting a Mustang. I’m sure with practice I could find the right engagement point but I was surprised at how difficult it was given it is a sports car. Not a Miata.
I haven't driven this particular car, but many manual transmission cars from the last 20 years have had clutch delay valves. It helps incompetent drivers who are slow to change up gears, but has the side effect that it's really hard for a good driver to operate the car properly and smoothly. Couple this with the usual drive by wire throttle lag and you've got a bit of a mess. The clutch delay valve can usually be removed - it's a common mod on BMWs. Lots of companies claim to remove the DBW throttle lag, but in my (rather costly) experience they can't.
I've been driving manual for 20 years as well and not once have stalled my 2016 GT and never had problems with being able to drive smoothly
@@HeadBassVTEC glad to hear you are enjoying your Mustang. BTW it’s funny to get a reply to a comment I left 3 years ago. I suppose nothing really disappears on the Internet.
I feel like I wasted my life. listening to this dude go on with math made me realize I am a moron.
his computer probably did the math . And your could teach your self the formulas for algerba Trig calculus. with yours . Get some infowars brain force you be quicker than him
Highlander Freelancer knowing which math to use on which numbers is the difficult part, not actually calculating the figures either by hand or by computer. the computer won't automatically know what jason is trying to do, he has to input the numbers and the formulas he wants. most of his calculations are just basic multiplication and division anyway.
Been looking for a GT too so this is good to know.
I have an 18 Gt manual and I love it. Doing a top end pull in third, it just pulls and pulls and pulls.
You should still get an 18+ GT. It's real easy to make a lot of power with a few mods.
Won't the manual break in 18-20
@@bajamike3803 The Tremec is only in the GT350. 15-17 GTs have the same garbage MT82 but with shorter gearing.
Alien, a 5 second google search reveals 15-17 GTs have the MT82. You could have at least tried to know what your talking about and with very little effort.
Jason, thanks for another great video lesson. I'm just nerding out, enjoying the fun math - and readying a lot of great other comments too.
Great video man always great to see these videos from you even though I’ve driven them all and agree 100% still best videos to watch :)
I personally own a 2020 Fiesta ST and I can tell ya, you are missing out America!!
- UK
Wait until Brexit :D
I know :(
I live in Wyoming and drive a 2004 Mach 1 on smooth, wide two lane highways with zero traffic and one law enforcement officer per 1,000 square miles. I've driven over 250 miles without seeing another human. My favorite roads are the Chief Joseph Scenic Highway and the Beartooth Highway. Look them up. Premium gasoline costs $2.83 per gallon. Yeah, I'm so sad I can't buy a FWD for cylinder crapwagon and drive it on a crowded tiny island with a zillion speed cameras. That's right, we don't have speed cameras. We have firearms.
"Why would they do this"
Because after having owned a c6 z06 for years, I would be pissed if I had to have the gear ratios of a 2015 mustang... the 2020 stang resembles more of a c6z gear ratio
C6z:
1st - 60
2nd - 90
3rd - 127ish
4th - 160
5th - 200+
6th - highway
With a 7k rpm redline these cars are king of the streets for a reason. The torque per same gear may have gone down how you explained, but you carry more torque into the higher speeds with the longer gear ratios. Btw, still incredibly fun to drive lol... 4th gear is an animal and comes up fast lol.
what do you think of the 10 speed automatic just got the 2019 mustang with a 10 speed automatic and paddle shifters
With my mustang, a major factor in the gearing was traction control. As I increased power, I had to install higher gears to help control traction. Running 4 10 rear gearing at the power levels I was making, it was common to break the tires loose on dry pavement at 60 mph. Dangerously and unexpectedly loose. Fun, sometimes, but not safe. By installing 3.55 gears, that is less likely unless I downshift to 2nd, which is usually unneccessary. So maybe traction control was also a factor. In an auto trans these days, the computer can assist with traction control more precisely than with a manual.
I'm not even 5 minutes into this video and I can already see Ford coming after you lol
I’ll never buy another mustang. My MT82 5.0 broke within two weeks of ownership
Yep, I agree the new gearing was one of the facts that made me stick with my 2017 GT instead of getting the facelift.. Ive been two trips to the Nurburgring and I must say the 15-17 manual gearing is superb for that fast track, which at the same time made me wonder when the new longer gearing is appropriate?
Im glad some one broke this down because i really wanted to know which to buy ...thanks again for always providing great info
I flipping love this channel. THIS is what I want to know about cars!
I bought a 19 Gt 6 speed pp1.
It's a fun car to drive despite it's gearing.
Possibly the reason the the wheel torque and overall " fun and excitement factors" are lesser in the newer model gt mustang is to prevent the amount of cars and coffee incidents of inexperienced drivers driving into walls and crowds turning out of parking lots. Coming from someone who owned a 2017 gt and now a 2018 gt premium edition ( both manual) I can honestly say the power is still there in the 2018 model, but it feels much more controlled and the slight reduction in torque and and increase in gear to power ratio seems more like a good overall vehicle tuning decision as opposed to a slip up in transmission progression. Cheers! Great video ! Great content! Keepit up!
Awesome video!! I'm with you on the shorter close ratio gears as far as preference. You're right!! If you're in sixth and need to speed up, then downshift!! Both my vehicles are manual and I wouldn't want it any other way!!!
I just know that I love my Crown Victoria
2020 engine and a nice 2015 gearbox ready for track day.
Nice video. Even though I haven't heard much (any) controversy about it, would love to see you do the same analysis for the 6th generation Camaro gearing/transmissions.
Enjoyed your analysis! One thought on the new gearing: it fits the first four gears neatly into its electronically limited top speed. Not a good reason, just one potential reason.
Thanks for further justifying my 2015 Mustang GT, but I have to admit, there are so many lovely options out there!
The great thing about Mustangs is that I’ve known a few people who’ve love one Mustang for decades. I’d hold on to yours until Ford makes another Mustang that’s perfect and you’ll always have memories of great Mustangs.
I think it's also a testiment to just how good that 10-speed automatic is.
BirdGod Yup. GM did a great job on it
@@Alex-se1ud Ford took the lead on engineering the 10-speed. Chevrolet is leading the development on the 9-speed FWD transmission.
Do a video on the ND MX5 / Miata about how the top gear in the manual transmission is direct, so no overdrive gears but a tall diff ratio instead.
Love the video! Looking at the manual versus automatic.20A vs 20M you state that the automatic has 5 gears before it hits to a relative acceleration to the manuals (3). I think that should be the case means the automatic is a 10 speed and that is the half way point between both transmissions. I’d be curious to see if there is a way to calculate the drives of the automatic versus the manual!! More content??
I’m really been thinking of doing 4.09 gears on my bullitt for this exact reason
So 1st through 4th gears would be completely useless to you.
Going from a 3.73 to a 4.09 is not a big jump so no, it wouldn’t be useless...
Video summary: ever since 2018 the mustang manual hit different
Damn this new manual vape really do hit kinda funky tho
You're not wrong
I am currently looking for a 2018 mustang gt and not sure to get the manual or 10 speed because I heard some people say that the 10 speed starts to have more problems later on. Just confused on what’s the right option
Well done! The only reason I like the MT-82 is for the gearing. Love the close ratio's on the 15-17
I would imagine that providing a 2 transmission choice would translate as less profit for a given vehicles bottom line.
Allen Miner yeah your pretty much right
They probably did. Everyone seems to dislike Manual Transmissions now and it is sad.
I read an old book on vehicle design and it said MT gear ratios followed a mathematical series. I like it when you do all the work.
Awesome video. Can you do the same thing for the 2012 vs 2013 Audi S4 DSG transmission?
The industry is trying to kill off the manual transmission.
DOWN WITH THE SLUSHBOX !
LONG LIVE THE MANUAL !
I'm trying to buy a late-model Dodge/RAM diesel pickup with stick shift. Damn millennial sales-pups seem to think that because a slushbox has 'selectable' gears then it's a 'manual' - feckin' idiots.
Well most think they can drive them like race car and tear them up. Then go back to dealer, dealer say no warranty, owner goes on every forum they screwed me and most on forums agree with them. Yet they tell people I was driving normal when it went out oh fail to tell them how many times they power shifted and racing it. Big Hot spots in flywheel and pressure plate with burnt clutch disc oh no I didn't abuse it just happened that way
a good chunk of mustang buyers don't understand and care about gear ratios and just look at the HP/torque figure. thats why
A good chunk of Mustang buyers don't even look at the HP/torque figures, because Mustang.
Excellent video. Thanks for making it. As soon as I bought my 2020 Bullitt and realized I could do 50mph in 1st gear I was like well, 4.56s it is.
Great video Jason!
I have one question about this.
Does the 3rd gen offer a 3.73 in any form with the manual? My understanding is the performance pack 2 offers a 3.90 diff and the non performance pack versions offer a 3.55 I believe.
I'm curious if your math was based off of the 3.90 gear in the 3rd gen or if it was off of a 3.73 gear
I believe standard is 3.55 and PP1 is 3.73
Ford cost cutted there products to death. The only manual transmission Ford should use is the Tremec found in the GT350. Then automotive manufacturers say no one wants a manual transmission anymore when really, people just want a good manual transmission which seems to be impossible these days. Hackett is ruining Ford.
To be fair its 45+ year olds that are buying new cars these days.
That's what I've been saying. I would've gotten my mustang in manual if it wasn't for the crappy MT82 unit they put in it. I'll just save up for a C6Z, they come with a proper tremec unit.
@@odethious5639 exactly what happened to me. I wanted a GT so bad but the manual was poor at best
@@swanblake
The funny thing is, those who bash the automatic just accept the poor MT82. Whenever you tell them of something that's bad with it, they just shrug it off. But that overbuilt 10 speed, nah man that's the bad transmission.
The ten speed is the same as the one in the ZL1. It is built to handle well above what the GT makes.
I know a guy who runs a 650WHP NA mustang with an MT82. He already ordered a t56. That should tell you something.
C6Z has the best stock performance if you fix the heads. Get that and mod it. I'm gonna keep my 10a mustang for now and save up for a C6Z.
Who the hell downshifts all the way to 2nd just to overtake in a mustang?
If you caught up to a hay wagon on a 2-lane highway with a lot of traffic in the passing lane, you might downshift to 2nd.
I have one --and downshifting from even 5th is not necessary to pass anyone. And that includes going up a long grade too.
This is fantastic: great breakdown of the physics. It really goes to show how 0-60 times have come to dominate our (car enthusiasts) definition of 'sporty' cars, when in fact we should be more concerned with driving dynamics and 'feel'. Just my two cents - but so many of these new cars are so far beyond the limits accessible by public road driving that we would be better suited by having the option to buy lighter, less powerful cars for sport driving.
Mazda miata has entered the chat
Great video! You are helping me justify my 2016 used GT350 more and more😁👍👍