5 Reasons You Shouldn't Care About Horsepower (As Much)
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Horsepower is overrated, car curb weights are far more important.
Driving the 2019 Mazda Miata clears the mind on what's important.
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Driving in the 2019 Mazda Miata MX-5 Club, with 181 horsepower and a curb weight of 2,339 lbs (with soft top), it becomes very clear that horsepower is not a necessary ingredient for an exceptionally fun drive. Horsepower is only a single number, and yet it's so heavily influential in the car buying world of enthusiasts. But does it warrant the impact that it has in sales?
I'd argue horsepower is heavily overrated, while simultaneously curb weight is heavily underrated. Because what really makes a car fun to drive? Sure, acceleration has a part. But what about steering, handling, response, grip, ride quality? So many factors are heavily influenced positively by weight loss, and negatively by power gained. Check out the video for 5 reasons why horsepower is overrated.
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"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere". - Colin Chapman
Enter my friend Cameron’s friend, who has an S2000 making 380 to the wheels and has way too much power for a sub-3k pound car lol
Hahahaha that’s what the masterminds say when a break through comes about 😂
Think about it like this 😂 adding horsepower can make it faster but literally all that horsepower will literally just go to waste if it has to carry a hefty load like it makes no difference yes it might feel spunkier but is it really necessary no 😂
HP = top speed
Torque = acceleration
Gewel ✔
Power - acceleration and speed
Torque - strength and wheelspin
Me after reading the title: Removes engine to reduce weight
LOL! Also disingenuous to say that only Mazda cares about weight. Even in the 90s the Corvette team did cool innovations on my C5 to reduce weight to the point the rear bumper is so thin you can push it in with your hand and it bounces back, the floor is actually a polymer and balsa wood sandwich, the exhaust is made from titanium, and they made big block power from a small block engine. Its all a balancing act, and while a Miata is lighter than a Corvette, I drove both and found the Corvette more fun as it used a little more weight to get fatter tires on it and so has much higher cornering G-forces than the same year Miata and far more "jerk" factor in acceleration with its much greater power/weight ratio.
Underrated comment tho 😏
WEIGHT REDUCTION BRO!!
Great way to spend 10 minutes saying .... it's the *AREA UNDER THE CURVE!!!*
Weighs the same as my 95 Sl2, the Miata does. But the Satty is 4 doors and can fit a whole family and is in very good shape and modded.
"Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." - Carroll Shelby
-Michael Scott.
-Nelson Mandela
what a good movie
Totally incorrect.
Also untrue
Jason: Has fun in a 180 HP MX-5.
Me: Has fun in a 54 HP Dacia.
@Thordur Hogna No. Dacia 1310 1.3L inline 4 carbureted
Same, 1.1 60hp citoren c2
At work we have a 2013 diesel citroën jumpy with a broken turbo, so its basically NA at this point. NGL its probably one of the most fun cars I've ever driven.
*Me: 0.9 hp. Skinny lightweight male running. Power to weight ratio, baby. One of the most fun ways to commute.*
I have a Nissan Sentra with 130hp and and 6-speed manual and it's the most fun vehicle I've had thanks to low power and three pedals
I agree with this and Koenigsegg said: we need to end the horsepower war and start a weight war.
For the street, it is more about weight and gearing. Torque below 5252 rpm helps you take off from a stop. The recent top ten list for reliability by Consumer Reports includes the CX-9, and they mention its main competitors have more horsepower but the CX-9 has more torque (and less weight) so it feels more powerful during normal driving. A V6 engine does sound better and vibrates less, however the CX-9 gets 1 more mile per gallon on average. A turbo is a maintenance concern after 100,000 miles, compared to naturally aspirated.
Still they went with the 0ne:1 and Regera and built basically undrivable although extremely nice cars.
Lotus has already won lol
We need to look at what Honda and Toyota are doing on their performance upgrades without changing the engine horsepower.
Also, lighter cars have better fuel efficency
"You shouldn't care about horsepower"
Dodge Engineers: Ight Imma head out
Dodge, the company that can make a car with 485 horsepower slower than a car with 400 HP built 15 years ago.
Joshua you must mean a C5 Z06? 🤔 haha. Totally agree
I drive a 12v cummins it's all about the torque with my dodge.
@@thesunflowchannel1995 exactly, not a dodge engine lol. Made by a company that manufactures large Semi-Truck motors, plus it's a Diesel lol.
to quote another youtuber: only dickheads drive dodge
I discovered this, myself, after test-driving 3 cars in about an hour. The one with the least horsepower had the most torque ... and was by far the most fun to drive.
Torque doesn't actually say something by itself, only combined with rpm, which equals horsepower anyway. The only reason torque would be important is because if it's high at low rpms you get a lot of power
My new little 100HP 1.0 turbo Ceed has 172NM from 1500 to 4000rpm and the feel is so much "faster" than my old 1.6l 100HP 143NM Focus.
Focus was "alive" only AFTER 4000rpm.
My 2019 Mazda 3 AWD NA 186hp at 6000rpm 186tq at 4000rpm. Car mags says it slow, well it kinda is at 7.2 sec 0-60 (Car and Driver tested a fully equipped premium trim). But in real world driving, getting all 186tq at 4000rpm flat all the way to 6000rpm makes the car feel quicker than it is. At 3250lbs for a fully loaded AWD, the low to mid range torque makes it fun on the back roads. Opt for the base model, without the heated/power seats heated steering wheels and mirrors, sunroof, 10 speakers with subwoofers like I did, I'm sure it's under 3200lbs. It feels better than my old e90 with the N52 since that car likes to be higher in the rev range.
Next stop will probably be lightweight wheels for better response.
I'm so glad to see someone address the topic of the 2nd derivative of speed: jerk. Everyone talks about acceleration (the 1st derivative) as the thing you feel, but I've always been convinced that the changing rate of acceleration (the "jerk") is what you really feel. Great video!
I would appreciate your comment alot more, if you wrote derivative of velocity.
I believe you are only capable of feeling the acceleration. However, as you start accelerating in a car, your muscles stabilize your body. And with a constant acceleration, your muscles work mostly static at a constant force. BUT - As you point out, with increasing acceleration (jerk), you muscles are always ""trying to catch up", to the muscle force required to stabilize at a given acceleration. Meaning, you kinda do feel the jerk, but not really, if that makes sense. So you feel the acceleration, but it is the jerk that keeps pushing you into your seat.
the lack of formulas and equations in this video is disturbing.
Yeah there's not enough whiteboard I can't follow
Basically everything here can be summarized as (Force, Mass, Acceleration)
f / m = *a*
*F* / m = *A*
*F* / *M* = *a*
Drag is exponential so more F means more top speed. But it’s the ratio of F / M = A which is usually more useful.
MadScientist that’s true, I preferred number
@MAKSTR those are fighting words. i have one video, with your mom, but posting it is against youtube's TOS.
@@grantlauzon5237 thank you
"One day Vtec will kick in" - Jason
Gedas Alekveravičius 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
hopefully
You forgot the "Yo"
Loved his little grin when he said that.
Hahahahah and when it does that will be the fastest HES went all week😂
01:07 Peak Horsepower
03:02 Top Speed
06:14 Horsepower is Heavy
09:14 Horsepower is not Response
10:37 Power vs Fun
Thanks
“The Miata is great. Horsepower is overrated.”
Puts a supercharger in his Miata to increase HP.
The MX5 IS great though. I considered putting a super in mine, but I don't want to screw up the weighting of it.
so you drive a bus we get it x'D
It was fun stock but full bolt on is way better. I got the edlebrock and if I could do it again I would turbo it. Better decision would be to invest the money. The simple fact that companies advertise high horse power vs wheel horse power is misleading. The nd1 vs nd2 0 to 60 and quarter mile is .1 second faster. Horse power is a range.
If he cared about power he would’ve gone with the good old ls swap 😂😂
he never said that he dont like hp, he just said that he likes lightness more
Colin Chapman the founder of Lotus also stated:
"Power makes You faster on the straghts, less weight makes You faster everywhere"
Rinus Brand but a car without power goes nowhere, literally.
Ryomichi actually a lightweight car with less horsepower can not just be faster in a straight line than a heavier car with abit more horsepower but can also be way faster around corners
@@zhila5958 It was a joke (but factually correct) ... He specifically said "without power" as in having 0 HP.
Ken Kalajdžič so basically with no engine xD
LOTUS Elise 2000 lbs. Big legal go kart. Amazing!
Rest of RUclips: "Corvette Review"
EE: "HP is overrated"
Corvette is actually a prime example of what torque can do. GM’s V8’s often make the same torque as HP, that’s why they would crush the 458 when it was out, it make 562hp but a measly 398lb-ft. Pulls hard up top but gutless in low to mid range where as the Vette is strong throughout the whole rev range. You average $30,000 half-ton pick up truck from GM makes more torque than a Ferrari 458.
@@ChuckBeefOG Good point. This result is implied with EE's Reason 1, where the shape of the Hp curve is mentioned. Hp is proportional to torque at any rpm. Since the Corvette has greater low end torque, there is also greater Hp there, vs the 458.
All he said about hp is correct but he only came up with the argument so he could sell the Mazda MX-5 in this loosely veiled advertisment 😆
@@nothingsurprisesmeanymore Perhaps. He seemed to be pushing how fun small fun cars in the old British tradition. I had a 2000 lb Triumph that was very fun to drive, especially after doubling the hp to 170, and upgrading everything. But he lost it when analyzing the effect of massive down force. And high peak hp is not just for top speed, it's for accelerations in the mid range of speed, after downshifting, which for most is more often that a 0-60 run.
Spreadsheet I made comparing weight/hp /cost:
2019 Ford Mustang GT(manual) 3705 460 36450 8.05434782608696 293580.97826087
2019 Nissan 370z coupe(manual) 3333 332 29990 10.039156626506 301074.307228916
2019 Ford Mustang(manual) 3532 310 26580 11.3935483870968 302840.516129032
2019 Chevy Camaro 1SS(manual) 3658 455 37995 8.03956043956044 305463.098901099
2019 Ford Fiesta ST(manual) 2720 197 22315 13.8071065989848 308105.583756345
2019 Hyundai Veloster N(performance package) 3036 275 29000 11.04 320160
2019 Fiat 500 Abarth(manual) 2512 160 20495 15.7 321771.5
2018 Ford Focus ST 3223 252 25170 12.7896825396825 321916.30952381
2019 Chevy Camaro 1LT(manual) 3354 275 26495 12.1963636363636 323142.654545455
2019 Hyundai Veloster N 3036 250 26900 12.144 326673.6
2019 Chevy Camaro 3LT(manual) 3448 335 31995 10.2925373134328 329309.731343284
2019 Subaru WRX(manual) 3272 268 27195 12.2089552238806 332022.537313433
2019 Mazda MX-5 Miata (manual) 2337 181 25730 12.9116022099448 332215.524861878
2019 Hyundai Veloster Turbo R Spec 2921 201 22900 14.5323383084577 332790.547263682
2019 Hyundai Veloster 2.0(manual) 2701 147 18500 18.3741496598639 339921.768707483
2019 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack(manual) 4234 485 38995 8.72989690721649 340422.329896907
2019 Honda Civic Si Coupe 2889 205 24300 14.0926829268293 342452.195121951
2019 Hyundai Elantra GT N(manual) 3102 201 22300 15.4328358208955 344152.23880597
2019 Mazda Mazda3 3082 186 21000 16.5698924731183 347967.741935484
2019 Dodge Challenger SXT(automatic) 3858 305 27845 12.6491803278689 352216.426229508
2019 Toyota 86 2776 205 26505 13.5414634146341 358916.487804878
2019 Honda Civic LX Coupe 2763 158 20650 17.4873417721519 361113.607594937
2019 Honda Civic Type R 3117 306 35700 10.1862745098039 363650
2019 Mazda Mazda3 AWD 3255 186 21000 17.5 367500
2019 Nissan Sentra SR Turbo 3076 188 22570 16.3617021276596 369283.617021277
2019 VW Golf GTI(manual) 3062 228 27595 13.4298245614035 370596.00877193
2019 VW Golf GTI(automatic) 3128 228 27595 13.719298245614 378584.035087719
2019 Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat(manual) 4429 707 60695 6.26449787835927 380223.698727016
2019 Dodge Challenger R/T(automatic) 4158 375 34364 11.088 381028.032
2019 Mini Cooper S(manual) 2785 189 25900 14.7354497354497 381648.148148148
2019 Chevy Impala 3.6L V6 3682 305 31615 12.072131147541 381660.426229508
2019 Toyota Camry L 3241 201 23945 16.1243781094527 386098.233830846
2019 Subaru WRX STI(manual) 3272 310 36595 10.5548387096774 386254.322580645
2019 Buick Regal Sportback 3748 250 25995 14.992 389717.04
2019 Jeep Wrangler Sport (manual) 3970 285 28045 13.9298245614035 390661.929824561
2019 Subaru BRZ coupe(manual) 2798 205 28645 13.6487804878049 390969.317073171
2019 John Cooper Works Hardtop(manual) 2845 228 31900 12.4780701754386 398050.438596491
2019 Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat Redeye(manual) 4470 797 71695 5.60853199498118 402103.701380176
2019 Toyota Camry XLE V6 3549 301 34150 11.7906976744186 402652.325581395
2019 Nissan Maxima 3552 300 34050 11.84 403152
2018 Ford Focus RS 3434 350 41120 9.81142857142857 403445.942857143
2019 Toyota Camry XSE V6 3572 301 34700 11.8671096345515 411788.704318937
2019 Kia Stinger GT(manual) 3829 365 39300 10.4904109589041 412273.150684932
2019 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350(manual) 3662 526 60235 6.96197718631179 419354.695817491
2019 Kia Stinger GT 4023 365 39300 11.0219178082192 433161.369863014
2019 Nissan 370z coupe Nismo(manual) 3457 350 45690 9.87714285714286 451286.657142857
2019 Kia Optima SX 3558 245 31990 14.5224489795918 464573.142857143
2019 Kia Stinger 2.0L 3611 255 32990 14.1607843137255 467164.274509804
2019 BMW M240i Coupe(manual) 3499 335 45800 10.444776119403 478370.746268657
2019 BMW M240i Coupe(automatic) 3519 335 45800 10.5044776119403 481105.074626866
2019 Ford Fusion V6 Sport 4085 325 40015 12.5692307692308 502957.769230769
2019 Chevy Corvette Stingray Coupe 3298 455 70400 7.24835164835165 510283.956043956
2019 Santa Fe XL AWD 4169 290 41400 14.3758620689655 595160.689655172
"You shouldn't care about horsepower that much"
Dodge: We don't care.
And how is the company doing lately?
@@williamko4751 selling a lot
@@williamko4751 he's joking... the put a hellcat engine in the mini van just because
Because the Hellcat engine fits everything lol
I think he means horsepower that can go around a track more than one lap before blowing up in a cloud of blue smoke.
I am so much in love with that Mazda's red color
Mekkiceh Mazda makes a great red.
"Horsepower is overrated."
-Honda owner
But vtec
I'm a Honda owner... My old accord has more hp than the cars I'm looking to buy haha
But... Hondas have a lot of power. If you take into account engine size to power ratio.
But Hondas get more power per litre than most US cars.
@@BannedByMe Power per liter of engine displacement doesn't cause acceleration. Actual power does.
lol the honda boys trying defend themselves ^
"It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."
No, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than drive a slow car slow. Hp has nothing to do with speed. A 4000lb vehicle needs about 800hp, to be as fast as a 3000lb vehicle with 450hp.
Hehehehe a fast car makes no sense because I can’t ever use the power at all😂
I like to differ: Driving a fast car really slow to annoy people is actually a lot of fun. They expect to hear some roar and speed and you disappoint them on so many levels.
@@emin86 lol
@@emin86 If I was absurdly wealthy I would buy a Bugattnigsegg and fit it with a super-expensive muffler that makes it completely quiet. And also a tow hook. And then just use it to tow a caravan at a very reasonable speed.
Horsepower is heavy. Koenigsegg 1:One, “Hold my beer” 1hp per KG
I think he was referring to a common mans car such as the challenger or Mustang but it is incredible that car exists.
Hope your wallet is heavy. You could get 1hp/1kg for $17k with a Yamaha R1.
If we go that way then what about the 1973 porsche 917/30 at around 1.8 bhp per kg. XD
@@aluisious Yeah! Just bought a Kawasaki ZX 10R with the same ratio, thy could offer that already in 2004! Paid less than 3K...
Keep in mind the car is heavier than the engine has HP, so you're not getting that much bang for your buck in terms of performance. The engine is 1341 HP. The car weights 1360 Kg.
That tidbit about jerk being why cars feel nice and responsive is probably why (car) people don't like CVTs. They can't be responsive because the transmission has to move every time you do something. I learned this in my CVT Fit when I went in to manual-ratio-mode to hold the engine at 3.5k, and I was surprised at the direct no-lag response between my foot and the acceleration, lol.
Yep, I drove a CVT transmission about a month ago. When I floored it, absolutely nothing happened for about 3 seconds.
Yet there are Mercedes drivers who change out their 12G-tronics gearbox under warranty because it wasnt smooth enough.
Nothing worse than a cvt with a fart can, you keep waiting for upshift that never happens all the way down the street.
"Just hoping that one day VTEC will kick in"
Didnt expect to hear that
I liked the video immediately after hearing that line. :p
And that specific engine set up with the S2thousand you have to rev that thing up till like 8000 before you get anything. The car only had what 130 foot pounds of torque it was a joke
@smokejblow66 It was 153 lb-ft for the earlier cars which is really good for a naturally aspirated 2L. That’s the nature of naturally aspirated engines. They are to be revved out to achievemax power.
@@smokejblow66 no one can mave a vvti engine as good as honda though. The first type r got around 180 from a 1.6 n/a engine in the 1990's and the standard b16 was around 160. That's amazing engineering no matter if you love or hate honda.
@@squidwardshouse67 I understand that, just for a car that had 240HP the torque numbers were pretty bad. However now that I look at it from an overall the engineering standpoint was pretty spot on for a 2.2.
However: nothing will beat my 2000 Toyota Echo that weighs 2025 lbs and has a 1.5 with 108 hp and 105lbs of torque. Killing it at 40 MPGS all day long!!
In terms of performance, a car needs to be able to do 3 things: accelerate, brake and turn. Horsepower only affects acceleration. Weight affects all 3.
Bro horsepower doesn't increase acceleration torque does hp is for the max speed but the factor that determines how much fast would you achieve that mad speed is torque
@@pankajbhatt5103 Torque and power are proportional though. High power means high torque and therefore, high acceleration. In fact, high torque and low power means that the car accelerates well at low revs only so that you have to shift early and lose torque by a lower gear ratio. Cheers.
@@flavioxy yes I agree with u here but earlier you that high torque automobiles are low end vehicles but rhe fact that you mentioned earlier that "horsepower only effects acceleration is not completely true"
@@flavioxy No.... Torque decreases in the rev range. Just because you are hitting higher revs in a gear does not mean you are producing more torque, in fact its usually the opposite.
A high torque low rpm car can almost always accelerate faster than a low torque high rpm car with more hp.
And that is what I've been trying to put into the minds of those youngsters who think that races are not fun, unless done in ovals, a straight line or going sideways.
The hardest racing discipline is and always will be rallyes. Why? Because you have to tune your car to do ALL the things it can do, accelerate fast and go really fast, brake efficiently and achieve stopping distances that other cars could dream on, and turn in bends that are sometimes just the size of the car, with not much room for error.
And then you get the Group B Rallye cars... Fast, agile, graceful, able to brake in gravel, mud and other surfaces that would make a car skid like a boat in low density water, all the while being almost able to turn in their own center axis.
How much horsepower in those cars? Something around the 400BHP. Yep. Less than one of those hypercars of today.
But, how much weight? Something around 890kg to 1100kg. Convert that to Imperial and you will see how LIGHT those BEASTS were.
And they did all that those cars with 700BHP or more did, they could corner like the fastest drift cars and could brake in distances only attained by F1 cars.
We need to go back to the performance drawing boards and start to look back at the Group B Rallye cars, to find ways to improve our own cars...
"horsepower is overrated"
-every Miata owner ever
To be fair, horsepower is overrated. Even though im not a miata owner.
Koenigsegg himself drives a '92 miata
Lol facts
As a Miata owner, I really do agree with this.
Jk I understand why horsies are fun, hence the turbo miata. Problem solved.
"- every acceleration enthusiast ever"
mic drops, goes home fast instead of wainting for the speed to 'kick in' ;)
I totally agree with you. Since I've bought my MX-5 a year ago, I've had a blast in it. Great car.
Engineering Explained: "Horsepower doesn't matter"
Me: *Removes entire engine to save weight"
.. You realize you could have just removed the cam* assembly and saved like.. 50lbs? Also, some people don't know this, but you can get your biggest weight loss from the removing the tires👌 thats a good 100lbs right there..
Work smart not hard.. Remove the little/easy stuff first!
Evan Jones your right.. we should start by removing all of that rotational mass 🤔
lol. Whenever the media reports on scientific research.
Don't forget to remove the air filter too. That'll save you about 1lb.
First remove the driver - it could save over 150 lbs
Oh stop making such good sense. Nobody likes a person that speaks truth and logic. Kill joy.
Stephen Kumnick I’m pretty sure no one was asking to direct this man to this video so why does his joy being killed have to affect my experience 😂
EE does get to go on tracks and have the HP fun. So he has a broad view of the matter, he is not talking out of envy.
Key points made! It’s like horsepower is the equivalent to “how much can you bench”.... but completely disregarding the stamina, endurance etc...
Also completely disregarding the person's weight. If you have two people, but one is twice the size of the other person, and the larger person can only bench like 10% more, I'd be more impressed by the smaller person and would frankly think the larger person is underperforming.
I was waiting for him to say "you know what helps all of these fun metrics except power, TIRES"
or coilovers or sway bars, or really any other suspension components.
these also usually cost much less than a bigger engine.
The car probably had tires on it.
@@randomnobody660 yeh but jason usually brings up the importance and improvements good tires can give any chance he can.
One of the ego busters around the track is, "Are you faster than a Spec Miata?" Let that sink in.
Okay, I let the sink in. Do I need to offer him a drink?
When I was in the D group back about 5 years ago I heard in the classroom "If you see a little Miata right off your back bumper.. point him by... God didn't put him there, he's faster than you!" I didn't believe the instructor until I got out on the track in my 435hp Mustang and had a Miata eat my lunch all the way around the track! Those things can corner!
Now that I am in the B group I have found that Miata drivers won't point me by because they don't believe that I'll be able to get out ahead of them and they don't want to lift... those guys are "foot the floor" the entire time they're on the track. If they have to lift.. well.. it's going to take them 5 minutes to get back up to speed because in the words of one of the Miata drivers "I got 2hp!" :)
@@srhatfield The Miatas actually aren't that fast, but the big difference is that a lot of REALLY experienced guys buy them as track cars, often gutted, and also quite often running slicks or near-slicks. Put that same driver and tire combo in a Vette, and he'd pull faster lap times but at a much higher cost of operation and putting himself at higher risk since the limits are that much higher now to get everything out of it.
"Top speed is something that most people are never going to attain in their vehicles."
**Laughs in 600 cc**
To be fair to cars it's much easier to hit top speed on a bike it happens much faster... Cars have much better aerodynamics and less power so they need time to fight the wind
Top speed is something a lot of people will never reach because those limits are well out of reach because no one really knows 😂
@@cleanmotorsportracingassoc6525 Top Speed is something only Germans know (like me)
Hey try Audi SQ7 - twin turbo diesel with 48 volt approx 3 second initial electric supercharger boost from the get go till little turbo spools up first - brutally quick (900Nm at 1000RPM.... no joke - I have one). Combine with launch control and I can guarantee you excitement.... Hey who said 600CC bikes? RUBBISH little pieces of crap that can't even pull wheelies at 6,000RPM.... YUK. give me a real motorcycle please..... - boy racers please move down to 50cc bikes with 25,000 RPM's - I mean - its just the sound that excites you isn't it..... Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz hahahahahaha
Laughs in 1000cc
Amazing video as usual. I love how you fall into a small group of individuals that actually explain fully your point and the reasoning behind it. I have a 2018 mustang Gt with now 475hp and I have a 1994 mustang gt with roughly 300hp. I love driving both but for jerk or response hands down the 94 GT because it weighs 500lbs less, has 4:10 gears and is a manuel. While handling is miles better on the 2018 GT stang that is another story all together. Thank you for explaining why low end torque is so much more important for FUN than HP
True. I went from a 460 HP car to a 225 HP car and im having just as much fun if not more in the lower powered car but its also lightweight. Its definitely slower overall but its a blast the way the power is delivered
EE: I don't lift, to keep my curb weight low.
Do you eat?
"This is the lightest fun car" - Lotus: Am I a joke to you?
@@collin9079 Lotus is still the most fun car though
I want a Lotus!
Maybe he meant as a new car? The new Lotus Exige is 100lbs heavier than the Miata. Probably way more fun though.
*cough Arial Atom *cough
the lotus elise is 300 lbs lighter.
Can't resist loving this man and his passion for cars. All The Best from Poland!
3:53 "..true constraints like..life.."
That's really hits something and brings me back to reality lol
but did he mean living or just living with the massive consequences of losing your license/car/sums of money etc lol
@@EdgarC701 he meant traffic, red zones, school zones, your boss calling you and you pretending to be sick, remembering that you have to pick up Aunt Magda, realizing you’re driving without your specs on which accounts for the blur you previously thought was caused by the crazy record-breaking speeds you were driving at, you know... life.
Extremely well said and explained. Nowadays we have more than enough hp, we actually need less weight.
I agree some cars are becoming very heavy. ..someone give a termi swapped fox
Thank the Nanny State for that one. You can't make cars that can survive a frontal offset crash without a LOT of steel. Also rollover protection (really: other than drunks, who rolls their cars?) is heavy as well.
Thank the Nanny State for that one. You can't make cars that can survive a frontal offset crash without a LOT of steel. Also rollover protection (really: other than drunks, who rolls their cars?) is heavy as well.
I agree 100percent .. less weight more economy and less maintenance.
@@bcubed72 "You can't make cars that can survive a frontal offset crash without a LOT of steel."
You can, but that's rather expensive. It'd require the chassis and body to be made from composite materials, like used in Le Mans prototype cars.
This is the biggest reason I hate “sport” SUVs, they all weigh over 4000 lbs
This + aero + center of gravity.
Jarek Nowak how could I forget hahah
lol my dads glc 63s will mop you in any weather condition, on road or off
Dodge Challenger Hellcat, heavy with awful weight distribution on an archaic plaform, "bad" aerodynamics, and way too much power. Aka it's the perfect American muscle car.
@@m.h.3679 I would rather take a Suzuki Jimny up a snowy mountain trail than a GLC
Forgot to point out that my MX-3 weighs only 2660 lbs, has near 50/50 front/rear ratio, passive steering rear end (which swaps over direct fit to the Protege's - - and those guys love to find them in the bone yard), good brakes, and very sporty steering.
This guy can talk non stop from san fransisco to new york without a single break. Period 🔴
One of the main reasons why a Go-Kart is so fun to ride in is due to the fact it is incredibly light and fun to toss around.
I feel the same about my gf.
Kinda like a miniature F1 car.
Sprint cars as well
MoonlightFox bruhhhh
Which is why I have a Lotus Elise S. 220bhp + 925kg (2039 pounds) = much fun!
"You Shouldn't Care About Horsepower (As Much)"
James from Donut Media: "But...mo powa baby."
Car Throttle: "Weight reduction bro!"
*_L I G H T N I N G_*
But muh horses
nobody:
not even a soul:
James: A THOUSAND BUFF HORSIES
MO BUFF HRSES MEAN MO POWA BABY!!!
*ramchargers*
I think 200hp is honestly adequate for most vehicles. It's crazy so many soccer moms have 300HP crossovers only to do 10 under on the freeway. My old Ford Bronco has a lazy 351 V8 that only makes 210 HP and it doesn't feel that slow compared to my buddy's F-150 with a 4.2 liter V6 making 200 HP which feels like a total dog. The V8 has useable low end grunt that the V6 can't match.
If we speak about most cars, then 200 is excessive. 100 is totally fine to pop into highway with ramp without flooring it. And if you are fine with flooring and keeping it in power range, then you can go even lower.
Very well done video thank you for the insight completely agree with tour argument. Always look forward to watching your videos! Each video is a lesson I love it!
“You dont need power to party”
-lil clutchkick
ok randy
Even he changed his opinion and said it's waayyyy better with power
Haha but I do need it to hold a drift 😂
@@cleanmotorsportracingassoc6525 not required but much better
"You care about how it handles; what it feels like
You care about grip" 😏
Someone once said “People buy horsepower, but they drive torque.”
But in reality, people buy horsepower, they believe they drive torque, but what they actually experience is power curve and engine response.
That's also what a lot of people get wrong about electric cars, they think it's just the torque that makes them seem so fast. It's not. It's the power curve and the instant response of the motors that create that heavy kick in the back. Not the torque itself
Doesn't wheel torque always match up with the power and speed? So the only thing you really care about is power (curve), torque is an utterly useless number that the power curve already tells.
Daniel Kemnitz but it’s the torque that comes on instantly not the hp. The response and pull is the torque. The hp curve is linear. Aka a straight line at an angle. HP is just a math equation.
Dingus Kahn Nope, you take the hp at that specific rpm, you divide it by the rpm, you get engine torque. Multiply that by the gear ratio and you get wheel torque. Torque is just a meaningless number that can be manipulated by changing gears; power curve is solid.
@@theorange1729 on the race track your in the power band so those numbers matter. While your towing the race cars to the track the torque band is your friend, keeping the rpms near peak torque gets you the fuel efficiency to spend money on upgrades instead of transportation fuel. Neither nuber is useless, it's just a matter of understanding what they actually represent.
Great content, as always! Thanks for your informative videos!
I love your show. Thanks for posting!
This whole video explains why Miata is always the answer.
And as a Miata owner, I can confirm they are always the answer.
BRP Adventures yeah they are my dad had a 1990 Miata it was really fun just to go to redline! Even that old it was fun to drive.
@@erikgonzalez2278 Mine is a '90! Bone stock. Has dents from previous owners, so it's not the prettiest, but damn does it drive well. I've put over 30,000 miles on it with almost no issues. Hell, I got rear ended by someone going 15mph last night and it came out nearly unscathed! But that was from my trailer hitch saving the car.
I have a 95 and a 00 Miata, and just recently purchased a 5.0 V8 sedan. Im semi regretting the V8 because my Miatas are way more fun to drive. Having 430 horsepower isnt all it was chalked up to be.
I wish they had a Miata for tall people. :-(
"I don't lift weights that high in weight value" that did a combo on me💀💀
Triston T Hahahaha dead😂
Triston T Hahahaha start light it makes it easier with due time 😂
I thought he was going to say that he doesn't lift weights at all...
One of the best vehicle channels around 👍
Really appreciate your content.
Thank you Jason for bringing this up, it is a great mentality change suggestion
“Hoping that v-tech will kick in” savage 😂😂😂🤣
vtec
yo!
*vtec
Here is the real question: HOW did you film that without being perpetually stuck behind either a) prius driver b) subaru outback driver
If he is around the Boise area, most people that own a prius or an outback drive like the assholes that own BMWs, over the speed limit and constantly cut off semi trucks without using their turn signal.
BlueDually4x4 **Indicators
No! here is the real question. Why should everyone drive the way you like them to drive, but you shouldn't drive like they would like you to drive? Are you the perpetual best driver in the world?
If you dont do the speed limit you should get ticketed just like me for speeding. And clogging multiple lanes going the same speed should be worse than a careless and reckless! Lol
@@manccarguy *turn signals
Thank you for covering these valuable points.
I bought a pos honda back in the day ostensibly to build my first cheap track car. I had all kinds of plans for big power right away, but a friend really insisted that I get rid of weight and do suspension/brake upgrades first. I'm really glad I listened to him, it made the car better in every way and so much more fun.
I love small light cars, they are very fun on the road, especially up in the mountains and twisty roads.
As long, as it is a RWD Platform, i agree.
Mazda Autozam Az1
Yes miatas... best ever.
lotus elise and exige!
I own a 1982 Mercedes 240 Diesel 4 speed manual, 63 HP, drive one, you won’t care what happens outside of the car!
Great car :D Congratulations :) I totally agree, I wouldn’t mind either.
I have a 1983 240d with a stick!
It’s a joy to drive with a blistering 55 whp
Woah now I feel like I driving a muscle car with insane 75hp!
I love the w123!
i had a 1984 300 Diesel with 88hp and the 4 speed manual, i did care very much what happend outside, because when you are at a crossing, and you want to enter a road that people go 100 kph and your car accellerates like a dune, it matter to not cause an accident. (few cars had ABS) Don't get me wrong, i really liked the car, especially the engine braking! (brake pads hat to be changed because of age rather than beeing used up! (they started to crumble)
Very valid points and as I get older, and still love my driving experience, I have been weighing all this for my next car.
Preach it, brother! When I was a teenager in the 1960's, I was all about horsepower. It was, after all, those days of muscle cars. My T-bird was a heavy beast with a V8 engine bored out to 406 cu. in. and had "dual quads" (two four barrel carburetors). One ride in a little old 47 hp Bugeye Sprite made me forget about hp and become a sports car guy forever. Many sports cars over the decades since, including a 1990 Mazda MX-5 NA1 that we drove for 20 joyous years and our current ND2 roadster. Our objective of fun has been consistently met over the years of owning light weight low hp sports cars. (I posted your video on a Miata Club FB page.)
0:17 "im not saying you shouldn't care about horsepower"
Title of the video: " you shouldn't care about horsepower" 😂😂😂😂
Beat me to it!
Haha, it's a fair comment, but if you read the full title, and listen to the video, they're aligned. This is the mess RUclips puts us in, because if the title was "5 reasons horsepower is less important than other factors of a car" the click-through-rate drops and no one gets notified about the video. So we compromise by keeping the content the same but altering the title/thumbnail to what RUclips prefers. This change has crushed a ton of educational channels. If you want to help prevent it, you have to ring the notification bell. As it sits, only 3-5% of views come from that bell. Rant over! But I'm with ya!
@@ovconley109 except the title also says, "...(as much)."
@@EngineeringExplained do what you gotta do. We love your content either way. 👍🏻
@@EngineeringExplained Great video though, as always. You always drive in such beautiful places.
The moment when my lifted truck weighs less than a Porsche sports car...
calling the Taycan a sportscar is quite a stretch.
Well hot damn you've got yerself an F-1 car!
Calling anything under 3.5 tonnes a truck is quite a stretch.
@@cat7371 Aww... Get a CDL and start real truckin'.
Austin Radtke and what truck is that, only way you’re going to subtract weight enough to get a truck that light is rubber band tires, a tiny four cylinder and just about everything else one can do to make a lifted truck disgusting
You make some valid points. As a car enthusiast myself, I enjoy driving a car that responds to my inputs from the wheel and both my feet (I drive a manual) in a smooth and efficient manner.
Great line while driving , tracking dead straight at the start with reference to the fence .
" hoping that one day, eventually VTEC will kick in..."
Oh damn... I laughed so loud I scared people ... thank you. I needed that
**edited because autoderp**
I love it when he awkwardly says "uh, yo" at the end of that.
2019 Miata owner here, 11,000 miles in.
Verdict: buy one. It's as much of a blast as everyone says, and that doesn't go away after the honeymoon period. MSRP on my vehicle was roughly $25-26k. That's a bargain for this much brand new fun.
It sips gas and all consumables are dirt cheap. I took a 1500 mile Colorado road trip exclusively through 2 lane mountain roads, driving like I wanted to lose my license the majority of the time. Trip average: 41mpg.
You don't want that ecoboost Mustang, bro. You want this.
do you pull the Blaupunkt head unit every time after parking...?
Another ND2 owner here, 15k miles.
Best new car for the money. I take it EVERYWHERE
Nah, I bought an RT Charger and it’s way more fun
I'd buy one and turbo the crap out of it, along withe some wider/wheel tire setup, then enjoy pissing off porsche owners in the canyons. Still would not beat most of 'em, but enough to just annoy 'em.
MSRP for the base model is around 35k
I always enjoy your videos. I've never seen someone go through so much trouble to rationalize their love for a Miata.
Rationalize is something someone does before driving a Miata, after, you just don't care anymore and have a blast.
The Miata is definitely leaps and bounds more fun to drive than 99.9% of all other cars on the road. I have driven McLaren, Porsche, and other sportscars but am ALWAYS happy to hop into my Miata.
You do get to those top speeds. you just don’t get there legally.
Yeah man
How often?
@Jay Dee yes, here on the Autobahn we just do it :)
(some idiots that run the country are trying to take it away from us but not any time soon!)
used to do it on my bike almost every week!
@@PaulA-zp7hn oh so your government is trying to take the fun thing germany is famous to the rest of the world away? also how are modification laws there? how far can you go as modifications? this has been my questions for a very long time
"A Nissan Leaf has 150hp at the crank"
Shouldn't that be "at the armature"?
The new leaf has more power an range
DEAD😂😂
That was good😂
Just think how much petrol you can buy for the price of a new battery🤔.
Technology for electric cars isn't there yet!!! and you cannot put a battery fire out. Bet thats not in the handbook.
@@retro80s80
The battery in most EVs these days are lifetime warrantied
You can put out battery fires, you just cant use a normal extinguisher, just as you cant use an extinguisher on oil but you can still manage an oil fire
Colin Chapman: " You can give a car more horsepower and it will be faster in the straights or you can make it lighter and it will be faster everywhere."
“Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.” Enzo Ferrari
Yes, all I look for in any ride is a smile on my face! Great video!
''if ya spinnin ya ain't winnin'' - someone somewhere.
_(Unless you're downhill Drifting in a mountain XdXdXd)..._
@@MiguelMedV Putting the memes aside for a moment, IIRC Keiichi Tsuchiya (The drift king) did measured downhill runs, and grip was always faster than drift. That being said, to quote Keiichi 'I drift not because it is a quicker way around a corner, but it is the most exciting way.'
@@MrRedstoner Yeah, I read all of that as well before, even _Initial D_ itself started to almost having no Drift at all since 5th Stage...
...But still it doesn't convince me. If I am wrong, I shall notice and accept it. Still not sure, have you tried the _Assoluto Racing_ Sim game? Or watched Vegetable Studio latest videos here in RUclips (Assetto Corsa)? Don't get me wrong, I'm looking for the fastest way of Tougé Racing too, but I need to watch all the angles ; )...
@@MrRedstoner On tarmac this is true, but drifting has existed for a long time on gravel, mud and snow as a fast way to corner. The reason for this is that the lower entry speed of a grip technique requires a long braking in poor conditions, whereas with a drift you can brake mid-corner (though as I recall exit speeds are similar).
I smoke cars while spinning to 60
"Weight is something we should all care more about"
Fat People: Ight imma head out
Kabar Mariel ight=allright
Kabar Mariel it’s slang for alright
@ it is internet slang term for "alright"
@bloodmech21 Lmfao
Kabar Mariel it’s like saying “alright I’m going to leave now”
..this might be the best video you've made so far ! Probably bcs I'm a current MAZDA3 AWD NONTURBO owner, and I absolutely love the car. I'm a LEXUS LS460, TOYOTA RAV4, and 2010 COBALT SS owner also. I have a sneaky suspension, if I go test drive the MX5... I will become an owner. I tried to explain the same thing about HP/ TORQUE to my neighbor who thinks you need 1, 000 HP in a 55 mph speed zone. I showed him this video and he now thinks about it a little more rationally.
Soo much of a good review well done.
"That really high jerk that puts you back in your seat" -EE 2019
Sounds like a terrible party.
@@WoodstaS sounds like a party of one.
The overall driving experience is really better than just horsepower alone.
No horsepower no movement.
Jacob Sebastien While you are correct, what I believe he means is that, for most of us, we won’t use all the horsepower the car can provide, and other factors, such as handling, feel, features, and overall fun matter more than sheer horsepower when looking at a car. I’d rather take a car that drives wonderfully than a car with relatively high horsepower. Of course, this all changes when we’re talking about breaking records and racing, then horsepower matters significantly.
@@elementalofficial1019 the s2000 comparison was completely bs btw... He acts like it's impossible to launch while holding the revs in the powerband and slipping the clutch so you leave using full power
@@Johnny-tq9no There is a limit to how many times you can launch like that and not have to replace your clutch, and it's surprisingly low.
Man horsepower just goes to show how dead people are inside when pressing the pedal isn’t enough 😂
Explain all those theory clealy in such a short time requires talent. Great job!
Brilliant explanation, again!
Can someone Please explain to me...
How the hell does he drive, talk Intelligently, WITH HIGH ACCURACY, and not just ramble?
He's been driving cars longer than a week..
He is intelligent..
He knows his subject..
I could be wrong..🤔but I doubt it.😛
Saf
You're assuming the video was done in one solid take with no editing or rehearsal before hand. Unless the video is live you should not assume that, even if it is live there was probably some rehearsal prior, even if not a formal script.
change of rate
@@williamgrover7137 That's a good point.
having grown up with caterhams, amen to this. Accelerating is fun, but in my opinion, cornering is more fun still.
However, accelerating is something that you can reasonably safely do on public roads without putting anyone in danger, just on entrance ramps, a quick pass, stop light, etc. Its very difficult to find corners that aren't blind and a mistake there can have you heading into oncoming traffic or flipping the car. Sad but true, and most of us become too lazy to drive a couple hours out to the racetrack and wait our turns, making the high horsepower larger more practical vehicle the better fun daily driver.
@@BoopSnoot It depends with the area too. I live at region that have roads wity more corners than straights, so the car with more cornering capability are more enjoyable. I got more enjoyment driving there with less power but lighter hatchback than more power but heavier SUV, even the SUV has faster 0-60 than the hatchback.
@Frances Hill Truth right here.
Lots of torque and horsepower is nice and all, but it doesn't excite me at all if the car handles like a boat and needs to slow to a crawl just to take a corner decently.
Love that you highlighted the new Miata. Someday I will own one. But for now, my '93 Mazda MX-3 is STILL super great (since I live in PHX), and will soon get a drop in high-revving JDM V6 with more HP and Torque. While the Miatas dominated in the 90's with 4 cylinder RWD's, the MX-6/Ford Probe GT and MX-3 were also very interesting sport cars. You might do a retro look at any of these. From Wikipedia: 'One unique innovation of the K-series was the introduction of Variable Resonance Induction System (VRIS). Based on the Helmholtz resonance principle, the intake manifold is equipped with 3 chambers tuned to a specific resonant frequency. The computer dynamically switches between each resonant chamber to achieve the appropriate resonant frequency for the engine's rpm. This effect optimizes volumetric efficiency over a given rpm range to provide maximum torque over the entire rpm range. VRIS is used on the K8, KF, and KL but nearly all modern Mazda V6s are now using this technology.' My 1.8L V6 has 270K miles and STILL registers near full compression at every cylinder~!!! These K-Series engines were some of the best Mazda ever produced, and that is quite a claim to make. Thanks for the great Channel.
9:37 he is doing calculus and has explained it in such a way that it makes sense to everybody.
"Speed and Power solves many things" -Our Lord and Saviour Jeremy Clarkson
🤣🤣🤣
3:42 If you live in Germany the "Autobahn" is always under construction.
YourNickIsTaken true haha
yea... but the sections that are not :-D you gotta know which parts are fun :-P
@@LaserPeow The sections that are not are either speed limited or filled with trucks. The fun of the Autobahn is a thing of the past, go to a race track, much better option.
@@Chuckiele you are probably not from germany... and regarding the race track part at least how i conceived it: I dont promote risky take overs or inappropriate speeds. you can go fast, IF traffic allows it, IF the weather allows it, IF you can handle higher speeds, IF there is no speed limit (this is literally in the Straßenverkehrsordnung [i think it is road traffic act]). Only idiots (sadly there are a lot) go fast in dense traffic... btw i do like a good distance to the one in front of me, you never know if that bloke is braking ;-)
@@LaserPeowMan muss wissen wann man auf die Autobahn fährt. Es gibt Zeiten da ist es fast leer.
Your fifth point is great. My classic Mini from 86 with 42 ponies is the most fun you could have in any car, because it's so tiny and nimble. A Veyron wouldn't be the same kind of fun, at all.
100% This means so much more after doing 4 track weekends. I came to this conclusion myself. Cost of consumables, agility etc. The problem with the miata is you need aftermarket suspension from the get go to get rid of the body roll.
I live in Melbourne Australia. One of my local tuners offer an ECU tune for BRZ/86 that brings the bhp down to 180-185 but completely gets rid of the torque dip (and improve fuel economy by 15% or so they claim). Me mate’s BRZ did that tune and it felt FASTER afterwords.
Is it possible to make an 86 slower
@Swampy if you can flatten out the torque curve you get a more responsive and driveable car
Almost like torque matters more in day to day
Peak HP and torque dip are not in the same rpm range, so I'm not convinced that tuner is really capable...
They lower the entire torque curve down to the bottom of the dip to get rid of the dip...
"If you can't go fast with 90hp, 900 ain't gonna help ya."
Soo true
*laughs in german*
I’ll take the 900 over your 90 and spank that ass without leaving 2nd gear!!!
HAHA I was just going to post that !!!!! You beat me to it :)
Carl aaaaand he’s drifted into a wall
Excellent video. Years ago I read a book called "All Corvettes are Red". In it, the chief engineer (Dave Hill?) talks about the benefits of weight reduction. He points out from an engineering perspective that the cost of reducing the weight roughly equals the cost of increasing horsepower. But, the weight reduction brings more benefits: fuel economy, cornering, braking, etc. Higher horsepower does the opposite and the car becomes heavier to support the higher power.
I really enjoyed your video and I absolutely agree, high horsepower "performance" cars have become far too heavy.
I'm the typa guy to ask what's the power to weight ratio whenever someone is talking about power. 🤔
Defiantly, my 55 nm/ 53bhp Honda Transalp 650 is around the same as the MX5 on 0-60, and its not even a sports bike. But its a V2 and makes a amazing sound and the instant torque is much better on the back roads, but I would say that on a motorway high revving engines are better.
Lol same.
"It has 1300hp"
"Yeah but it weighs 3600 kg"
Yup, me to. And "when" does it have power? For everyday driving I don't go above 2000 rpm because my engine has so good torque at those low revs and I still get off the street light faster than the others ;)
Me too.
This is why I use Automobile Catalogue as much as possible when looking up specs, because it includes power to weight ratio.
Actually, talking about what makes a car fun to drive, you missed the sound. Sound alone is 30-40% of the fun imho.
Also an high revving engine is really fun, more fun than an engine with a lot of torque at low rpm
@@emmanuelperrina6105 Actually they are both loads of fun, depending on the circumstance.
A tractor wants lots of torque, I'm driving a sports car so let me rev that thing to 8,000+ and hear the engine really sing.
No fun in pressing the go button and having the car just go immediately, give me something that makes me work for it.
Agreed. I did a muffler delete and love the rumble and pops and burbles.
My 1.4turbo Dart is pretty slow but it sounds amazing. I’ve never gotten sick of the sounds and driving feel. That’s what has made me fall in love with the car
Love this! Great video!
So nice to have a friendly Vulcan 🖖 explain all the tricky stuff......
I always tell my friends that I would prefer handling over speed when it comes to cars
Sure, I like a decent amount of speed, but what I find more fun is being able to swiftly and smoothly maneuver through curvy roads
Fun until you come whipping around one of those curves that you can't see far enough around and find a car stopped dead in the road or a tree laying across it.
And where per chance do you get to use that handling? Are you being a tōge driver and riding on the wrong side of the road around windy roads? I'm really tired of hearing about handling, because unlike power which just makes you go faster in a straight line, handling is used by going around corners quickly. If you're going around corners quickly, you're being way more dangerous than someone going fast in a straight line.
@@Shintsu2 That's the most narcissistic thing I've ever read...
@@Shintsu2
Yeah man mountain roads
Shintsu2 yes indeed, I would like to be a touge driver.
7:00 you could have added another side of the list, using cars like Caterham 7 620R as an example. 310 HP, 1200 lbs, 2.8s to 60
It won’t have as high of a top speed as a GT 500 but in most scenarios it would do better/be fun.
@@grantlauzon5237 Ariel Atom...
@@JeffHorschel try having it as a daily lol
@@albertor1061 tubular scaffolding on wheels. :-D its fun to drive though :-)
C8 VETTE 2.8 and faster real soon. Traction of mid-engine.
Best explained video ever 🔥🔥🔥
Thank you! Awesome video!