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Im letting go of my audiophile tendencies and trying to just enjoy the music. Like any art, over analyzing it can ruin it. Im beginning to believe that chasing sonic excellence can compromise one's listening experience. You find yourself listening to the equipmment, instead of the music.
Eventually our hearing looses all the high frequencies and becomes muddled. Yet I can immediately tell when my speakers use Bluetooth and not Chromecast or uPnP. Airplay should be as good as wi-fi but on my Windows based equipment it is not.I find what is lacking detracts from enjoying the music even more that differences between speakers at double the cost.
I strongly lean in your direction. I know guys who are caught in that hamster wheel. I picked up a Wiim Pro Plus on sale at Crutchfield. I figured what the hey, for what it costs, you can't even go to a professional sporting event for, or even a nice dinner with the wife. I was highly skeptical, but I must say, that even my cheap non-audiophile ears, can clearly hear a much cleaner and more pure, smooth sound through the Wiim. A friend played Bluetooth music and DAC streamer music, and I chose the source 100% correct between the two, every time with my back turned so I couldn't see what the source was.
You can put MP3's on an iphone. You can put .wav files on an iphone. What you can't put on an iphone are loseless files in which case you have to use the apple flavor.
@@acitizen5928 WAVE files are lossless. FAC is compressed but lossless. Airplay is lossless but compressed. From an iPhone you need to get a wired 3.5 mm socket to avoid lossy compression.
Bluetooth sucks is like saying class D sucks. If Bluetooth is send by LDAC codec to the qcc5225 receiver Chip in 24bit 96khz format it competes with USB from a Laptop easily.
Bluetooth is not dead. Bluetooth isn't suited for audiophile enjoyment of the music but it is a convenient standard for connection of devices. Apple devices are limited in their codec support. Tbh Apple is limited in everything. Android supports multiple devices on Bluetooth, easy transition/switching between devices, higher throughput and range, etc. As long as you don't buy shi**y devices that only support SBC or AAC, you can have very close to lossless data rates and enjoy some portability. Unfortunately most people in the US judge technology by Apple standards or their implementation. iPhones and iPads are just overhyped and overpriced tech. Apple is the problem, not Bluetooth.
You should re-name this video to "Bluetooth sucks for iPhone" Most Android phones support LDAC out of the box. Many non Apple true wireless devices support LDAC out of the box and while it's not perfect it leaves AAC in the dust.
I agree on not using iPhone in general, but also on Android phone the streaming wins in almost all cases. To the point that I'm considering to create a wifi in my car.
he said hifi. I think there's some merit to that. If you want just some really good headphones or speakers then there's no issue. But he's most likely talking about 2k+ usd equipment.
When i first started listening to music, I used a little one speaker transistor raidio, and I turned out ok. My Bluetooth speakers are a step up from those days.
Nearly all Android phones support APTX and LDAC. I actually have earbuds for both. The APTX ones sound better than the LDAC, even though the latter has a higher resolution. The drivers play a much bigger role than the codecs. As for desktop DACS, not all of them have bluetooth, you can actually buy BT receivers for ~$100 that support higher resolution codecs with digital outputs to be connected to a DAC or amplifier. As for the Wiim Mini, how do you use it without a WiFi connection? Does the Wiim have a rechargeable battery? how do you use it at work, at an airport, car or airplane? That is one of the reasons why the puck has BT, even though it is only low resolution.
@@Hirnlego999that’s interesting, I definitely have not had that same experience. Although, I did find it got a lot better when I started using the Bluetooth codec changer app on android. It lets you force it LDAC to 900kbps rather than it defaulting to variable or one of the lower bit rates
Whilst commuting, on the street Bluetooth is fine but in a quiet place uPnP, wi-fi has a better quality and can be lossless and hi-res. The phone can get wi-fi or data over the mobile network. you can then uPnP over wi-fi to wi-fi speakers or the 3.5 mm output to headphones or hi-fi.
@@geraldmcmullon2465 Sure, but that does not apply for the situations I listed. Wired headphones/speakers beat the wireless (BT or WiFi) for HiFi listening. At work I have WiFi available, but I would not use it for sound out of privacy concerns.
It sounds a lot like your complaints stem from the fact that you use Apple products. You seem to take that as a given, and assume that the entire world has no choice but to make the same flawed decisions you made.
I think you should really retitle your video to: Don't Fall for the Biggest SCAM in Hifi! Bluetooth is Dead on the iPhone 1) Please remember that iOS is not the leading mobile OS in the world. 2) Android Bluetooth is working just fine with the right equipment. 3) Using the LDAC codec, I have none of the inconveniences you mention... The sound is great, my notifications do not spoil the music... it works when my screen is off.
Randy such click bate so let's calm some nerves by saying my cheap and cheerful Amp the Douk Audio ST-01/ ST-01 PRO uses the aptX HD codec which supports 48kHz/24-bit LPCM audio data (576 kbps). While a lossy format, it's leagues ahead of AAC (iPhone) and SBC (usually android 9 and below) Which means my Douk Audio ST-01/ ST-01 PRO is receiving just above CD quality . Plus, it supports a fine enough bitrate to keep everything running smoothly and sounding decent enough. If your player (phone or tablet) device is android 10 and above go into developer options and check the audio codec which you can change if need be. If your using an Apple device sucks to be you and that you couldn't figure out that apple is not spelled with an "I".
Longtime Bluetooth lover but its only place is in the car or for headphones. Streamers are way more convenient and functional. Being able to control volume and playlist from multiple devices, and multi room pairing makes it so easy and enjoyable to use. I wish and hope Google brings back the Chromcast audio. Or the WiiM mini can support Chromecast or RUclips Music on a new model.
Just picked up a WIim Pro which does all that for $120 CAD, so around $90 US. Hard wired Ethernet, Coax into my Rotel DT-6000. Tidal Connect sounds pretty darn good. I see Bluetooth has its fans here and I use it in the car or on the move. But it’s always a “might” with Bluetooth. You might get a high rate lossless channel but you might not if the spectrum is congested and you have no control over that. Streaming always gives you the best quality no matter what.
@@clivepacker I have a WiiM Pro also. Just in scenarios like my garage or deck where hi-fi is not crucial. The WiiM Mini size is more desirable. Also have a mix of Android and Apple devices, so I need chromecast or RUclips music functionality. My two biggest issue with Bluetooth is the loosing connection when going out of range and version of Bluetooth that auto connect when in range.
Bluetooth 💯 has a place in audio. It's last place, but I probably use it the most. I have class A, AB, D systems on 6 sets of speakers. I have wired planar open backs and IEMs on a A90D. I use my Shokz (bone induction) headphones for the huge majority of listening time. Does it sound good? No! Easily the worst, BUT it is non-blocking listening. It's like having background music or podcasts injected in your brain, but you can still hear everything and talk to people. There is nothing in your ear and they don't fall off. Biggest game changer in audio for me and it's Bluetooth!!! Great for calls and listening to Cheap Audio Man! The best audio you have is the audio that is playing 😮
@@mylivingsky haha I never noticed ... small price to pay for such an excellent tactical audio device. Pro tips: use ear plugs in loud environments. Pilot friend turned me on to this. Also CGPT voice! Full on conversations with AI. 😱 oh my brain is so big now amazing these things fit.
Agree, Shokz are brilliant for consuming content while 'doing stuff'. Walking and talking with your own private soundtrack, at the right volume they're perfect.
My friend recently told me all audio quality sucks now compared to the 90s. I looked at his speakers and headphones and they’re all Bluetooth using RUclips music, when I asked what codec he used he starred at me blankly. His jaw was on the floor when I took my WiiM and tidal connect round and explained that audio compression was his main problem. He’s now saving for a WiiM and he’s subscribed to tidal. The problem is most people not into HIFI don’t have a clue about this stuff.
Maybe the title of this video should have been "Stop using Crapple to stream your music" ...I built a dedicated media server many years ago to stream my flac music files to my portable devices. I pay $5 dollars a month to stream all the music I want to my phone which is connected to JBL earbuds and the quality is just fine....and goes everywhere I do.😊
I agree with you regarding home use, but Bluetooth works well as a solution for car audio. I use a Fiio BTR5 (2021) Bluetooth adapter\DAC in my non-Bluetooth (2009) car to feed audio to the 3.5mm stereo input jack. I recently bought a new Android phone having LDAC on it and can stream music I download from Tidal. While not "audiophile", it is miles ahead of trying to use a crappy FM transmitter device. I threw that thing in the trash. People need to know that Bluetooth, despite claims by manufacturers, isn't capable of 16-bit/44.1KHz CD quality let alone anything higher. At least not yet. It simply lacks the bandwidth. John Darko has several videos about this he had done over the last two or three years. Also, people should know that Airplay 2 is always going to be AAC. Only the old Airplay, call it "Airplay 1" if you want, was capable of better ALAC quality, but Apple killed it because it drained iPhone batteries far too quickly transmitting all the extra data. The thing is most devices will not let you choose to use Airplay but will default to Airplay 2, however some (very few) apps will let you force Airplay instead of Airplay 2 playback.
Randy, I have a very nice system, and I have integrated bluetooth. My phone (Samsung s21) has both Aptx and LDAC codes to use. I purchased an Auris BlueMe pro. It sounds really good. However, my CD player employs a Burr-Brown DAC and is phenomenal. My TV has bluetooth and LDAC codec. I'm on the fence about "upgrading" to the WIIM Pro plus. But how much better is it really?
I wish that google make a newer usb c version of the chrome cast audio device with the latest version of wifi, and support for hi res audio like dsd while also having an ethernet port for a wired connection as an option. I still have my chrome cast audio device with micro usb but I don't like how fragile micro usb is. Wifi audio has better audio quality than bluetooth while having more bandwidth even though the range is limited. No one mentions about using wifi for audio or connecting the usb c port to an ethernet adapter for smartphones as another option for wired audio. Bluetooth audio has no real password since there are some devices that uses the default 4 digit numbers such as 0000 or 1111 as passwords for audio but it's too predictable and not secure at all and anyone can connect within range compared to wifi since wifi can be restricted to the users with strong, secure and encrypted wifi passwords.
What about us android users? I do have an older Amazon Echo that has a headphone jack that is hooked up to my stereo system for Amazon Music and it works great.
Believe me, all of the points you made were going through my head when my wife recently bought a pair of AirPods Maxs. I was thinking (use most obnoxious, nerdy audiophile voice) “well actually there’s no way these will sound better than my wired Hifiman Edition XSs playing 24/192 from a USB connection.” She went on a trip for a few days and left the headphones. I paired them with my IPhone and took the dogs for a walk. I did not hate them. I will grant you that they are only worth it if you use Apple Music but I’m neck deep in the ecosystem and that isn’t going to change at this point so all the features work for me. By the time she got home I really wanted my own. They’ve been on sale lately so I picked some up for a decent amount off and I haven’t looked back. 1986 me, with a crappy personal cassette player and those chintzy foam rubber headphones, can’t believe portable music sounds so good. I don’t think I would use Bluetooth in my home setup but I’ve failed the NPR test so many times I don’t know why I bother worrying about this stuff.
I’m with you Randy. Another great advantage of wi-fi is multi-room streaming. My Covid boredom project ended up being the addition of seven connected speaker pairs throughout the house: Sonos, Edifier, Symfonisk/Sonos, a couple of WiiM amps with speakers out of storage and a main system powered by a Marantz PM7000n. It is absolutely glorious. Impossible with Bluetooth. Currently, it is all tied together via AirPlay 2 with no noticeable latency. Critical listening at night is done on the main system via Tidal connect. If I need to be reminded of the limitations and frustration of Bluetooth, I only have to get in my car.
I agree up to this point: It makes no sense to have a Bluetooth receiver that has a different COEDC than the transmitting device. l have three listening modes: background, casual, and serious. Background listening is just that, I have music playing while I am attending to something else that may hold my attention more than the music or even have me leaving the room or moving the headphones. Casual listening for me is what I do when I am relaxing,, reading, or writing. Serious listening for me is when I want to give undivided attention to the music, just as I would at a concert or in a club. Since I long want to deal with one CODEC, I choose LDAP. My phones (One+) and my receivers have LDAP. If I am using phones for other than casual listening, I prefer wired. I don't believe that Bluetooth is dead, but I do believe that it should never be used for serious listening. What's the point of trashing the music before it gets to you?
Well, you said it, Bluetooth is fine for passive listening.... Even an enthusiast like myself passively listens all day and in the evening I sit down and actively listen to a record or CD. Most normies don't actively listen at all, and enthusiasts who do actively listen aren't using Bluetooth for that activate listing even if they use it the rest of the day. I really think you're yelling at clouds here.
There are some specific Bluetooth based standards that are lossless, certain codecs and Bluetooth standards that have enough bandwidth. But most are not. But there are at least 2 or 3.
I hear you for a stationary HiFi system, this makes perfect sense if you’re questioning whether you should get a DAC for Bluetooth functionality specifically. But even for intentional listening, LDAC from an android using the Bluetooth switcher app to force 900kbps is pretty sweet. I use it with Sony XM4s while I work. I also sometimes use a pair of wired 7hz timeless earbuds, but I work with electron microscopes so it’s nice not to have a cable while prepping samples, and I can listen in great quality. I’ve got a spare older android just for this.
I guess, but how much does a cable cost? Nothing is better than a cable. That tiny little filament of copper that connects the headphones to the source makes it hi-fi. Even those horrible FM modulators that connect to your FM tuner, I guess that's barely hi-fi. I hate listening to compressed FM with nothing existing above 16,000.
Bluetooth doesn’t sound as good as streaming but can be more convenient. I use it when teaching because it connects quicker and Apple Music, drum machine and transcription apps etc are available instantly.
Randy; My Bluetooth usage, headphones, when walking the dog, cutting the grass. When I am listening to to Sirius/XM in my office, I will run it on my iPad, and Bluetooth it to my powered speakers, Sirius only broadcast at AAC 256. But if I am listening to iTunes, I will plug my iPad or iPhone into the speakers via USB, to get that lossless stream.
I'm with you Randy; I pronounce it "Weem" as in the double ii phonetic "ee" in Hawaii and skii. Incidentally, I'm loving my Wiim streamer as being the best bang for the buck in my audio system.
Bluetooth is just the connection, and much like the iPhone is still stuck on usb2, they are still only using basic Bluetooth which tops out around 2mbps, buy Bluetooth standards allow up to 50mbps on EDR for over a decade now, which Qualcomm has supporting aptx lossless up to 48khz 16bit sound, otherwise known as the top quality you can get on cd so, no. You just need a device made in the last decade by a company that isn't trying to force you to buy their other mega exensive products to get anywhere near current Gen capabilities... Wiim uses Qualcomm chips too, btw.
I’d rather buy a $80 Wiim mini than a $500 phone that I don’t like or even a $200 tablet. That’s the point of this video. Buy and android phone isn’t the answer. Buy a streamer that does 24 192.
2.1+EDR has a 2Mb and 3Mb PHY. There was a 3.0+HS where the HS mode could support a WIFI PHY, but nobody is using it. No 50Mb mode is being used even proprietary.
@cheapaudioman you can get a phone that supports it for $80, buying more things isn't really am answer to either problem, physical media is still a better solution. Just saying.
@@cheapaudioman Luckily, there are many people who do not use Apple devices, at least in Europe. Most Android-based platforms include at least the Aptx HD codec and many LDACs. Anyway, I use a streamer that I built with a Raspberry Pi4 using Volumio and connect it to my DAC via bluettooh using a Snenheisser adapter. Super stable connection and I can listen to Tydal without notification interruptions. Yes, WIFI is better, but if you have the right equipment, Bluettoh doesn't seem bad to me.
Since the most widely used streaming service (Spotify) only offers mp3 quality, the limitations of bluetooth hardly matter. And anyone using a higher quality source already is aware of the limitations of bluetooth and how to deal with them.
A couple of months ago, I picked up the WIIM Pro Plus from Crutchfield. It has totally transformed my music listening experience. And that's coming from a guy who was taking a leap of faith, thinking that this is probably another Hi-fi snake oil thing. And I don't even have audiophile speakers. Just some RCA (Radio Shack) three way floor speakers that I completely rebuilt recently. Using a Marantz SR6015. Thank you for your channel. You opened my mind to the DAC streamer idea about a year ago.
Ok, for me, bluetooth is a way to cast audio to another device. Regardless of whether it's headphones or an amp. I fully agree that using bluetooth when you can also cast lossless 16/44.1 (or higher but I don't think that matters) is not the way to go. But the argument that it's not convenient because your device might do other things, also applies to Airplay and Google Cast. Using those protocols, some other sounds might get cast as well. At least that's my experience. "Connected" protocols such as Spotify Connect, Roon, etc are completely different, because now the stream doesn't go through your phone anymore. It is handed off to the device, and your phone just acts as a glorified remote control. Which is actually very nice, but it has another downside: it only works as long as that device supports it. Case in point was that NAD, at one point, announced that Spotify Connect was no longer supported on their C 338 amplifier. Which I think is actually why it might make sense for an amp to have cinch, toslink, coax, HDMI ARC, Airplay, Google Cast, and Bluetooth inputs, but anything more smart can be handled by dongles or pucks that in turn connect to that amplifier (probably via toslink). Also I want to say that the "codec carousel" should really not be a surprise to anyone. And lastly, you saying "the codec is not the problem, bluetooth is the problem"... exactly what do you mean, and why is it the problem? Can you please explain it? Because bluetooth is just radio signals, like wifi, except with different protocols and on different frequencies. So where is the problem? Not saying you're wrong, but can you back up what you are saying?
Randy complaining about Apple's limiited Bluetooth is like someone saying they can't make a decent cake when all they have is a toaster oven. For a while I used BT LDAC on a 2018 Google Pixel 3 (now Pixel 7). Bandwidth is 600-900 kbps, so far less lossy than what Apple can manage.
Wrong! I agree generally on your Bluetooth assessment. However, the 'ifi Zen Blue' Bluetooth streamer is an excellent sounding exception. You must try it, Randy! I sometimes prefer its sound to the wiim mini. Seriously.
To me Bluetooth sounds great. But, what do I know. I'm only a professional sound engineer with 35 years of working experience who owns 4 high end systems and a million dollar recording studio. When I stream MQA off Tidal it is only marginally better than a good BT signal. My only grip is BT locks out the next user if you forget to disconnect.
Amen. I've been using BT devices since 2015 and the quality has been great. Maybe prior BT was bad. Many people's only internet connection is from their phone. The more BT is used, the better it will evolve in future iterations.
I agree for sound quality, but I agree even more for use-ability sake. We had BT in our kitchen for a while, so any of our family could DJ during lunch or dinner or any kitchentable session. That part we loved, the BT not so much. It was way before WIIM and I bought a ChromeCast video with an HDMI extractor and bam, way, way betterrrrr. The one that was DJ-ing could walk away with their phone, no issue. Everybody can take over, everybody can do volume control. Now we moved to a WIIM Amp in the kitchen with even more joy. Still a lot of chromecast and during the day we mostly listen to radio, the stations that are on my preset one and two. We don't even touch the phone, just the remote, works flawless every time. And then putting more devices in one group, so we walk from kitchen to livingroom and still listen to the same stuff, flawless. BT is fine in the car and while running, full stop. Now I have ChromeCast playback in my back garden too.
Alternative A2DP driver works well on a PC.. This comes from a boomer who has set up recording studios, worked with musicians and who began chopping up reel tape in 1973 as a kid. This does need a revisit. My room still consists of 1000s of CDs, more LPS and a fair amount of tape. I gather this is your opinion.. However your channel is becoming choppy. Constructive criticism.
There are some exceptions to the rule, Rotel implement the Bluetooth to a very good standard . Plus its great for Bluetooth speakers when your out and about, either speaker or headphones . So there is a place for it .. Its cheap enough to have both nowadays..
The crappy thing about Apple is that you can bet if Steve Jobs were still alive, they would have upped their audio game significantly by now beyond 320KHz AAC. Yeah, knowing Apple they would have done something proprietary, so you'd have to buy their phone and their Bluetooth or whatever device to make it work to lock you into their eco-system.
I still use it in certain cases. Never with headphones and never with my built sound systems. I do however have a small portable speaker that I take to the front porch (no system out there yet!) and I certainly do use it in the car.
Bluetooth isnt the greatest for quality and i'll never understand the point to a bluetooth turntable. That said, little compares to bluetooth for convenience. I would never use them for critical listening but most of my days are spent using a pair of multipoint bluetooth headphones that simultaneously connect to. My phone, tablet, and work pc. Phone is for personal calls, tablet ks for music and videos, and thd work pc is for calls and zoom/teams meetings. The quality isnt the best but the setip is kore than serviceable during working hours.
RE: 'Sounds terrible'... I'm all in for proper cabled earphones (have multiple sets).. But, have you tried aptX Lossless? What is it like? Is it the best BT will ever get? How does it compare with cabled 'Ear gear'? 🤔😏 😎🇬🇧
aptx lossless will switched to something else if it is crowed and has inference. You have no control. Going uPnP and wired headphones is better. wi-fi 7 might change it all.
I have a Bluesound Node in one room and also send music to another system in a different room via a Ifi bluetooth receiver and it sounds great. I also only use Android phones for private listing on the move and wouldn't touch Apple with a barge pole .But thats my choice and I'm happy with it ,but to be honest its my choice in music that makes me happy ,so however you listen just enjoy it.
I'm one of the few adapting hi-fi to car audio and I currently am having to run BT. Do not disturb and silent is set to turn on when it connects. At least do that. Having an issue I can't track down I think with the signal chain and waiting on the smsl ps100 to arrive, instead of messing with RCAs. Trade off of keeping things clean, I can't just change signal path easily.
I realise this is just a generalised post discussing Bluetooth's shortfalls but Randy has said a few times he loves using his Soundcore Liberty 4 earbuds. For headphone amp at my computer listening I usually use my Samson SR850 (which don't break the bank and are well-regarded budget headphones - sort-of clones of the Superlux HD668B). But to be honest, it's hard to revert back to wired headphones when you get so used to being wireless (and dealing with things like cables breaking every so often). Pretty sure mainstream Bluetooth lossless is just a few generations away. It gets brought up every now and then in hi-fi forums. My everyday headphones are QCY H3 which would probably horrify some audiophiles but they are fantastic for the price (and ANC headphones make life so much more peaceful too).
I’m disappointed because I bought an SMSL C200 DAC/headphone amplifier last year. It comes with multiple inputs, USB, Bluetooth, coaxial and optical. I was using the USB input for my phone, and it was working just fine until one day it just stopped working. My phone will not recognise the USB input and just starts playing through the phone speakers instead of through the DAC. Now I’m forced to use Bluetooth and AAC. I have noticed a significant decrease in sound quality, and I’m not impressed that now I have to buy another DAC.
I finally bought a car that has CarPlay and bluetooh. I love being able to stream my music through my Plex server into my car. It’s great not to have to use the cassette adapter or aux in on the car radio Bluetooh is perfect for short trips. I just start my Plex music and it automatically goes to the car. I will plug my phone in for longer trips and to use CarPlay. IT is amazing how much better my music sounds through the lighting cable Bluetooh on the Apple TV and TVs is great. If only all TVs had it. You’re lucky to get a headphone jack on my tv. My pioneer lsx305 has bluetooh and supports the apt X codec. I don’t miss having 2 100 foot cords plugged in to my receiver in my bedroom to watch tv via the optical cable. It’s not fun in the winter time with the static shocks I’d get. 😊
It is hard for me to express how tired I am of hearing how much you hate bluetooth. Also, "it's cheaper and better", seems to me to be an outright falsehood. How exactly is it cheaper to spend a 80 to 100 bucks on a streamer, then pay every month for access to your chosen stream(s), where you get to pay money every month for content you will never listen to? The reasoning behind that seems suspect.
@@jamesschneider3828 Really? Tell that to my Pixel 8 Pro which contains all my music on board. I prefer to own my music. Feel free to rent it yourself.
I haven't met anyone that can actually tell the difference between 990kbps LDAC and wired...especially as you age you can't hear high frequency anyway...not that youngsters can tell the difference either...I think we need James Randi and his coat hanger back for the amount of myths i keep seeing on these channels.
That,s why I like Tidal connect, I have a Wiim Pro for streaming HiRes audio.conected via coaxial to a SMSL SU1. I have learned a lot of yout videos. The only bad thing is I am running out of coffee. ☕
LDAC Bluetooth is good. With Bluetooth convenience, it's still an option. Manufacturers should still invest this technology to make it even better. Streamers are still difficult to work with.
I have the BTR5 (2021) and it works fine at LDAC from my mid-tier Samsung phone. It isn't full CD quality, but pretty close. For my use in a car, it is plenty fine.
This video was made in the shopping mal while waiting for wify at ladies store. 🙂 Very helpful btw. Going to check your other videos for streamers. 👍🏼🤓
I use Spotify (someone else pays for it) and I did an AB test between Wi-Fi and Bluetooth via a WiiM Pro Plus and crappy speakers (before I got nicer ones) and I still was able to tell a noticeable drop in quality. I was surprised I was able to tell a difference honestly as I only started getting into Hi-Fi. I agree with Randy that there's no reason to use Bluetooth for intentional Hi-Fi listening since WiiM products are available and so affordable. If I have to use a portable speaker I'll take my WiiM Pro Plus and power it off a phone charger and feed that via the line out to my Bluetooth speaker Aux-In. Also, it's easier and less hassle to get dinner party guests onto the Wi-Fi and using Spotify Connect to control music than it is to do the annoying Bluetooth pairing.
I love the analogy of UPS throwing your compressed audio down the stairs. -- i hate it when the sound skips off a Bluetooth connection. Even if it's not great fidelity, it is a horrible connection. Use wires, people.
I’ve never been a big fan of Bluetooth, especially for critical listening. It is OK for on the go usage such as wireless headphones or speakers. I even have a Wiim in my bathroom because I dislike Bluetooth that much. Do have Anker wireless IEMs and a small JBL Bluetooth speaker that I take on the go. They are just fine for that purpose, but definitely not as good as the Wiim.
Bluetooth has it's place, but hifi isn't it. It's good for background noise, it's good for easy portable setups, it's good for streaming in the car where you lose so much of the detail anyways because of all the noise. But Randy is right, if you are listening critically with good gear, Bluetooth is hot garbage. I A/B compared Bluetooth to a USB connection once. It's literally going from FLAC to 128kb MP3 and once you hear it, you can't unhear it.
Evidence! Show me the evidence in the form of double blind testing where people can immediately tell how bad Bluetooth is a high percentage of the time. I dare you to try it with some excellent equipment like a pair of KEF LS60 speakers that need nothing besides a music source like toslink, USB or Bluetooth. and if Apple does such a terrible job with Bluetooth, go ahead and use an iPhone to make it all the more dramatic! I’m not really an advocate for Bluetooth, I would just like people who make claims to back up those claims with real world testing!
Had tons of DACs with bluetooth and none have matched youtube through the TV optical even thought YT is not the best source to begin with. And I've never used Apple
Yep. Does it every time. I noticed that it stays at 900 with atmos though. The way I’ve been getting around it is by using my MacBook and setting the system to airplay.
John Darko has done numerous videos on this over the last two years. Airplay 2 will always default to using AAC. Only the older Airplay, call it Airplay 1, or whatever, would let you transmit ALAC. The issue was it killed iPhone batteries too quickly streaming lossless data, hence Apple "fixed it" for the non-audiophile masses by having Airplay 2 default to AAC.
@@CamaradaMejia yes, my nephew and his wife use MacBooks. I think the main "gotcha" with Apple's OS is that you have to manually select bit depths and rates. Hopefully, Apple will fix that sometime.
There are other reasons to prefer BT over streaming: portability, cost and privacy. I am sure Linkplay collects information from the WiiM units (they are connected to the internet); add to that the cost the subscriptions
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Im letting go of my audiophile tendencies and trying to just enjoy the music. Like any art, over analyzing it can ruin it. Im beginning to believe that chasing sonic excellence can compromise one's listening experience. You find yourself listening to the equipmment, instead of the music.
Eventually our hearing looses all the high frequencies and becomes muddled. Yet I can immediately tell when my speakers use Bluetooth and not Chromecast or uPnP. Airplay should be as good as wi-fi but on my Windows based equipment it is not.I find what is lacking detracts from enjoying the music even more that differences between speakers at double the cost.
I strongly lean in your direction.
I know guys who are caught in that hamster wheel.
I picked up a Wiim Pro Plus on sale at Crutchfield.
I figured what the hey, for what it costs, you can't even go to a professional sporting event for, or even a nice dinner with the wife.
I was highly skeptical, but I must say, that even my cheap non-audiophile ears, can clearly hear a much cleaner and more pure, smooth sound through the Wiim.
A friend played Bluetooth music and DAC streamer music, and I chose the source 100% correct between the two, every time with my back turned so I couldn't see what the source was.
I fully agree with you. Music is the most important, whether it is mp3, flac or hires. I will enjoy it all.
Same here. Music over technicalities ❤
1. Don't use an IPhone. 2. Make an A- B-test. If you don't hear a difference, fine. 3. Don't buy some fancy device you don't need.
You can put MP3's on an iphone. You can put .wav files on an iphone. What you can't put on an iphone are loseless files in which case you have to use the apple flavor.
@@acitizen5928but ALAC is lossless and you can use it on Apple devices, or is that what you’re saying?
@@acitizen5928 WAVE files are lossless. FAC is compressed but lossless. Airplay is lossless but compressed. From an iPhone you need to get a wired 3.5 mm socket to avoid lossy compression.
Bluetooth sucks is like saying class D sucks. If Bluetooth is send by LDAC codec to the qcc5225 receiver Chip in 24bit 96khz format it competes with USB from a Laptop easily.
He is assuming that the whole world is a fan of apple.😂
@@klausfreis7202 portable LDAC headphones amps makes Bluetooth awesome again
IFI ZEN BLU, does a decent job for me
Also, not everyone uses IPhone 😂
@@lincso6018Same here - Randy praised it in one of his early videos and even then saw Apple as the problem.
My hearing is lossy but I'm not going to stop using it.
Sure! Enjoy! Just don't be fooled by some slick salesdude that it's going to be audio nirvana.
🤣😂🤣
Respect ✊
You should immediately return it to the vendor with a strongly worded complaint and request an upgraded version that performs better. 🤔😉
@@sRw-61 👋🏻😂👍🏻🍷
Bluetooth is not dead. Bluetooth isn't suited for audiophile enjoyment of the music but it is a convenient standard for connection of devices. Apple devices are limited in their codec support. Tbh Apple is limited in everything. Android supports multiple devices on Bluetooth, easy transition/switching between devices, higher throughput and range, etc. As long as you don't buy shi**y devices that only support SBC or AAC, you can have very close to lossless data rates and enjoy some portability. Unfortunately most people in the US judge technology by Apple standards or their implementation. iPhones and iPads are just overhyped and overpriced tech. Apple is the problem, not Bluetooth.
You should re-name this video to "Bluetooth sucks for iPhone" Most Android phones support LDAC out of the box.
Many non Apple true wireless devices support LDAC out of the box and while it's not perfect it leaves AAC in the dust.
I use a 5 year old andoid phone and it has LDAC...
This video can be summed up as "Bluetooth is great, just don't use an iPhone"
My thoughts exactly
I agree on not using iPhone in general, but also on Android phone the streaming wins in almost all cases. To the point that I'm considering to create a wifi in my car.
I have never had an iphone, but I don't do bluetooth headphones on my android, wired only. I use it in the car though.
The problem is not Bluetooth. Apple is the problem. Overhyped and overpriced crap.
People are bluetoothing vinyl to amps 😂😂
Really..why would anyone do that! 😊
lol ya that is funny
In the groups where people are asking about “Bluetooth” turntables, to go to their Bluetooth speakers, I tell them, just get a cheap streamer.
Crazy idea.
Of course they do. How else would you get digital sound quality?
Bluetooth in my car sounds way better than AppleCar Play in my car.
Is this just an ad for Wiim? lol
Wow! That's exactly what I was thinking... 😂
this is coming from someone who says “audiophiles are full of 💩” …
he said hifi. I think there's some merit to that. If you want just some really good headphones or speakers then there's no issue. But he's most likely talking about 2k+ usd equipment.
Also a lot of the people I know have portable speakers they use all the time when they go places. Bluetooth is great for a lot of things.
It is great for polluting the environment with your crappy musical taste
Yup, it fits the bill just fine when I go camping.
@@D1N02 I listen to the same music as he does so you’re saying he has bad taste in music?
When i first started listening to music, I used a little one speaker transistor raidio, and I turned out ok. My Bluetooth speakers are a step up from those days.
Nearly all Android phones support APTX and LDAC. I actually have earbuds for both. The APTX ones sound better than the LDAC, even though the latter has a higher resolution. The drivers play a much bigger role than the codecs. As for desktop DACS, not all of them have bluetooth, you can actually buy BT receivers for ~$100 that support higher resolution codecs with digital outputs to be connected to a DAC or amplifier. As for the Wiim Mini, how do you use it without a WiFi connection? Does the Wiim have a rechargeable battery? how do you use it at work, at an airport, car or airplane? That is one of the reasons why the puck has BT, even though it is only low resolution.
" The APTX ones sound better than the LDAC" my impression as well. LDAC lacks dynamics
@@Hirnlego999that’s interesting, I definitely have not had that same experience. Although, I did find it got a lot better when I started using the Bluetooth codec changer app on android. It lets you force it LDAC to 900kbps rather than it defaulting to variable or one of the lower bit rates
@@CamaradaMejia OK, I'll try that app
Whilst commuting, on the street Bluetooth is fine but in a quiet place uPnP, wi-fi has a better quality and can be lossless and hi-res. The phone can get wi-fi or data over the mobile network. you can then uPnP over wi-fi to wi-fi speakers or the 3.5 mm output to headphones or hi-fi.
@@geraldmcmullon2465 Sure, but that does not apply for the situations I listed. Wired headphones/speakers beat the wireless (BT or WiFi) for HiFi listening. At work I have WiFi available, but I would not use it for sound out of privacy concerns.
It sounds a lot like your complaints stem from the fact that you use Apple products. You seem to take that as a given, and assume that the entire world has no choice but to make the same flawed decisions you made.
This is why I stick to android. My Google phone has ATPXHD and LDAC and sounds really good! Had a WiiM mini and the WiFi was shocking!
Try uPnP casting - better quality than Bluetooth or Airplay. I use wired headphones and wired earbuds.
Shoking? Good or bad shocking?
@@geoCow BAD!
You are right: Apple just sucks!
Other than that: Bluetooth with aptx(HD) or LDAC is just fine, for "seriuos" listenig also.
Nothing wirelessly transmitted is ok for critical listening.
That's just objectively false. The lossless standards transmit perfectly unadulterated data, no different from wires.@@Audiodreamer192-24
@@Audiodreamer192-24 So, any wifi is bad..... ?? yeah right... like all your streaming options are all wireless..
@@SilmarilS79 for music yes!,
I only use hard connections for streaming. Fact….
I think you should really retitle your video to: Don't Fall for the Biggest SCAM in Hifi! Bluetooth is Dead on the iPhone
1) Please remember that iOS is not the leading mobile OS in the world.
2) Android Bluetooth is working just fine with the right equipment.
3) Using the LDAC codec, I have none of the inconveniences you mention... The sound is great, my notifications do not spoil the music... it works when my screen is off.
This ^ 100%
One more reason I don't use an iPhone.
Randy such click bate so let's calm some nerves by saying my cheap and cheerful Amp the Douk Audio ST-01/ ST-01 PRO uses the aptX HD codec which supports 48kHz/24-bit LPCM audio data (576 kbps). While a lossy format, it's leagues ahead of AAC (iPhone) and SBC (usually android 9 and below) Which means my Douk Audio ST-01/ ST-01 PRO is receiving just above CD quality . Plus, it supports a fine enough bitrate to keep everything running smoothly and sounding decent enough. If your player (phone or tablet) device is android 10 and above go into developer options and check the audio codec which you can change if need be. If your using an Apple device sucks to be you and that you couldn't figure out that apple is not spelled with an "I".
Longtime Bluetooth lover but its only place is in the car or for headphones.
Streamers are way more convenient and functional. Being able to control volume and playlist from multiple devices, and multi room pairing makes it so easy and enjoyable to use.
I wish and hope Google brings back the Chromcast audio. Or the WiiM mini can support Chromecast or RUclips Music on a new model.
Just picked up a WIim Pro which does all that for $120 CAD, so around $90 US. Hard wired Ethernet, Coax into my Rotel DT-6000. Tidal Connect sounds pretty darn good. I see Bluetooth has its fans here and I use it in the car or on the move. But it’s always a “might” with Bluetooth. You might get a high rate lossless channel but you might not if the spectrum is congested and you have no control over that. Streaming always gives you the best quality no matter what.
@@clivepacker I have a WiiM Pro also. Just in scenarios like my garage or deck where hi-fi is not crucial. The WiiM Mini size is more desirable. Also have a mix of Android and Apple devices, so I need chromecast or RUclips music functionality.
My two biggest issue with Bluetooth is the loosing connection when going out of range and version of Bluetooth that auto connect when in range.
Bluetooth 💯 has a place in audio. It's last place, but I probably use it the most. I have class A, AB, D systems on 6 sets of speakers. I have wired planar open backs and IEMs on a A90D.
I use my Shokz (bone induction) headphones for the huge majority of listening time. Does it sound good? No! Easily the worst, BUT it is non-blocking listening. It's like having background music or podcasts injected in your brain, but you can still hear everything and talk to people. There is nothing in your ear and they don't fall off.
Biggest game changer in audio for me and it's Bluetooth!!! Great for calls and listening to Cheap Audio Man!
The best audio you have is the audio that is playing 😮
@@mattmiller4978 good luck if it is an open run pro, the more u use it, likely it gonna leaves a dent on U at the contact point.
@@mylivingsky haha I never noticed ... small price to pay for such an excellent tactical audio device.
Pro tips: use ear plugs in loud environments. Pilot friend turned me on to this. Also CGPT voice! Full on conversations with AI. 😱 oh my brain is so big now amazing these things fit.
Agree, Shokz are brilliant for consuming content while 'doing stuff'. Walking and talking with your own private soundtrack, at the right volume they're perfect.
Every time I see those Bluetooth turntables, a little audiophile fairy dies inside of me.
My friend recently told me all audio quality sucks now compared to the 90s. I looked at his speakers and headphones and they’re all Bluetooth using RUclips music, when I asked what codec he used he starred at me blankly.
His jaw was on the floor when I took my WiiM and tidal connect round and explained that audio compression was his main problem. He’s now saving for a WiiM and he’s subscribed to tidal.
The problem is most people not into HIFI don’t have a clue about this stuff.
Want to become an alcoholic? Take shot every time he says Codec!
Damn........and I`m still using Hi Bob.
Or uploads a filler video.
Ah'm wwaaaayy ahead of yaa! 🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺
It's YET ANOTHER REASON why I'm Android ALL THE WAY BABY! 😉👍🤣🤣🤣 😎🇬🇧
Maybe the title of this video should have been "Stop using Crapple to stream your music" ...I built a dedicated media server many years ago to stream my flac music files to my portable devices. I pay $5 dollars a month to stream all the music I want to my phone which is connected to JBL earbuds and the quality is just fine....and goes everywhere I do.😊
I agree with you regarding home use, but Bluetooth works well as a solution for car audio. I use a Fiio BTR5 (2021) Bluetooth adapter\DAC in my non-Bluetooth (2009) car to feed audio to the 3.5mm stereo input jack. I recently bought a new Android phone having LDAC on it and can stream music I download from Tidal. While not "audiophile", it is miles ahead of trying to use a crappy FM transmitter device. I threw that thing in the trash. People need to know that Bluetooth, despite claims by manufacturers, isn't capable of 16-bit/44.1KHz CD quality let alone anything higher. At least not yet. It simply lacks the bandwidth. John Darko has several videos about this he had done over the last two or three years.
Also, people should know that Airplay 2 is always going to be AAC. Only the old Airplay, call it "Airplay 1" if you want, was capable of better ALAC quality, but Apple killed it because it drained iPhone batteries far too quickly transmitting all the extra data. The thing is most devices will not let you choose to use Airplay but will default to Airplay 2, however some (very few) apps will let you force Airplay instead of Airplay 2 playback.
Wish I could hear well enough for it to make a difference
Randy, I have a very nice system, and I have integrated bluetooth. My phone (Samsung s21) has both Aptx and LDAC codes to use. I purchased an Auris BlueMe pro. It sounds really good. However, my CD player employs a Burr-Brown DAC and is phenomenal. My TV has bluetooth and LDAC codec. I'm on the fence about "upgrading" to the WIIM Pro plus. But how much better is it really?
I wish that google make a newer usb c version of the chrome cast audio device with the latest version of wifi, and support for hi res audio like dsd while also having an ethernet port for a wired connection as an option. I still have my chrome cast audio device with micro usb but I don't like how fragile micro usb is. Wifi audio has better audio quality than bluetooth while having more bandwidth even though the range is limited. No one mentions about using wifi for audio or connecting the usb c port to an ethernet adapter for smartphones as another option for wired audio. Bluetooth audio has no real password since there are some devices that uses the default 4 digit numbers such as 0000 or 1111 as passwords for audio but it's too predictable and not secure at all and anyone can connect within range compared to wifi since wifi can be restricted to the users with strong, secure and encrypted wifi passwords.
What about us android users? I do have an older Amazon Echo that has a headphone jack that is hooked up to my stereo system for Amazon Music and it works great.
you can upgrade your codecs it's in developer options
@@Boswd Thanks but I don`t see it in developer options.
@@webman1956 do you haave deleloper option available in your "about phone" menue if so you have to scroll all the way towards the bottom
"If you use IPhone..." Well, we don't! My phone, my headset, my TV, my DAC .. they all has LDAC.
Believe me, all of the points you made were going through my head when my wife recently bought a pair of AirPods Maxs. I was thinking (use most obnoxious, nerdy audiophile voice) “well actually there’s no way these will sound better than my wired Hifiman Edition XSs playing 24/192 from a USB connection.” She went on a trip for a few days and left the headphones. I paired them with my IPhone and took the dogs for a walk. I did not hate them. I will grant you that they are only worth it if you use Apple Music but I’m neck deep in the ecosystem and that isn’t going to change at this point so all the features work for me. By the time she got home I really wanted my own. They’ve been on sale lately so I picked some up for a decent amount off and I haven’t looked back. 1986 me, with a crappy personal cassette player and those chintzy foam rubber headphones, can’t believe portable music sounds so good. I don’t think I would use Bluetooth in my home setup but I’ve failed the NPR test so many times I don’t know why I bother worrying about this stuff.
I’m with you Randy.
Another great advantage of wi-fi is multi-room streaming. My Covid boredom project ended up being the addition of seven connected speaker pairs throughout the house: Sonos, Edifier, Symfonisk/Sonos, a couple of WiiM amps with speakers out of storage and a main system powered by a Marantz PM7000n.
It is absolutely glorious. Impossible with Bluetooth. Currently, it is all tied together via AirPlay 2 with no noticeable latency. Critical listening at night is done on the main system via Tidal connect.
If I need to be reminded of the limitations and frustration of Bluetooth, I only have to get in my car.
I agree up to this point: It makes no sense to have a Bluetooth receiver that has a different COEDC than the transmitting device. l have three listening modes: background, casual, and serious. Background listening is just that, I have music playing while I am attending to something else that may hold my attention more than the music or even have me leaving the room or moving the headphones. Casual listening for me is what I do when I am relaxing,, reading, or writing. Serious listening for me is when I want to give undivided attention to the music, just as I would at a concert or in a club. Since I long want to deal with one CODEC, I choose LDAP. My phones (One+) and my receivers have LDAP. If I am using phones for other than casual listening, I prefer wired.
I don't believe that Bluetooth is dead, but I do believe that it should never be used for serious listening. What's the point of trashing the music before it gets to you?
Well, you said it, Bluetooth is fine for passive listening.... Even an enthusiast like myself passively listens all day and in the evening I sit down and actively listen to a record or CD. Most normies don't actively listen at all, and enthusiasts who do actively listen aren't using Bluetooth for that activate listing even if they use it the rest of the day. I really think you're yelling at clouds here.
A wiim-a-wak, a wiim-a-wak, a wiim-a-wak, a wiim-a-wak. In the jungle, the mighty jungle my streamer streams ALAC…
Amazon music to Chromecast , then optical cable to receiver. Works pretty good and no Bluetooth.
There are some specific Bluetooth based standards that are lossless, certain codecs and Bluetooth standards that have enough bandwidth. But most are not. But there are at least 2 or 3.
I hear you for a stationary HiFi system, this makes perfect sense if you’re questioning whether you should get a DAC for Bluetooth functionality specifically.
But even for intentional listening, LDAC from an android using the Bluetooth switcher app to force 900kbps is pretty sweet. I use it with Sony XM4s while I work. I also sometimes use a pair of wired 7hz timeless earbuds, but I work with electron microscopes so it’s nice not to have a cable while prepping samples, and I can listen in great quality. I’ve got a spare older android just for this.
Bluetooth has its place for basic peripherals but that's about it. Some sound is better than no sound at all.
I guess, but how much does a cable cost? Nothing is better than a cable. That tiny little filament of copper that connects the headphones to the source makes it hi-fi. Even those horrible FM modulators that connect to your FM tuner, I guess that's barely hi-fi. I hate listening to compressed FM with nothing existing above 16,000.
I have a friend who swears that bI-wiring is better than just hooking up a regular cable. LOL
false meritless lie of a statement.
Bluetooth doesn’t sound as good as streaming but can be more convenient. I use it when teaching because it connects quicker and Apple Music, drum machine and transcription apps etc are available instantly.
That's pundit, Randy. Only one "n" in pundit. There are no pundints.
Commercials galore!
Randy;
My Bluetooth usage, headphones, when walking the dog, cutting the grass.
When I am listening to to Sirius/XM in my office, I will run it on my iPad, and Bluetooth it to my powered speakers, Sirius only broadcast at AAC 256. But if I am listening to iTunes, I will plug my iPad or iPhone into the speakers via USB, to get that lossless stream.
I'm with you Randy; I pronounce it "Weem" as in the double ii phonetic "ee" in Hawaii and skii. Incidentally, I'm loving my Wiim streamer as being the best bang for the buck in my audio system.
Bluetooth is just the connection, and much like the iPhone is still stuck on usb2, they are still only using basic Bluetooth which tops out around 2mbps, buy Bluetooth standards allow up to 50mbps on EDR for over a decade now, which Qualcomm has supporting aptx lossless up to 48khz 16bit sound, otherwise known as the top quality you can get on cd so, no.
You just need a device made in the last decade by a company that isn't trying to force you to buy their other mega exensive products to get anywhere near current Gen capabilities...
Wiim uses Qualcomm chips too, btw.
I’d rather buy a $80 Wiim mini than a $500 phone that I don’t like or even a $200 tablet. That’s the point of this video. Buy and android phone isn’t the answer. Buy a streamer that does 24 192.
2.1+EDR has a 2Mb and 3Mb PHY. There was a 3.0+HS where the HS mode could support a WIFI PHY, but nobody is using it. No 50Mb mode is being used even proprietary.
@cheapaudioman you can get a phone that supports it for $80, buying more things isn't really am answer to either problem, physical media is still a better solution. Just saying.
@@cheapaudioman Luckily, there are many people who do not use Apple devices, at least in Europe. Most Android-based platforms include at least the Aptx HD codec and many LDACs. Anyway, I use a streamer that I built with a Raspberry Pi4 using Volumio and connect it to my DAC via bluettooh using a Snenheisser adapter. Super stable connection and I can listen to Tydal without notification interruptions. Yes, WIFI is better, but if you have the right equipment, Bluettoh doesn't seem bad to me.
44.1 is CD quality, 48 is DVD quality.
Since the most widely used streaming service (Spotify) only offers mp3 quality, the limitations of bluetooth hardly matter. And anyone using a higher quality source already is aware of the limitations of bluetooth and how to deal with them.
A couple of months ago, I picked up the WIIM Pro Plus from Crutchfield.
It has totally transformed my music listening experience.
And that's coming from a guy who was taking a leap of faith, thinking that this is probably another Hi-fi snake oil thing.
And I don't even have audiophile speakers.
Just some RCA (Radio Shack) three way floor speakers that I completely rebuilt recently.
Using a Marantz SR6015.
Thank you for your channel. You opened my mind to the DAC streamer idea about a year ago.
Ok, for me, bluetooth is a way to cast audio to another device. Regardless of whether it's headphones or an amp. I fully agree that using bluetooth when you can also cast lossless 16/44.1 (or higher but I don't think that matters) is not the way to go. But the argument that it's not convenient because your device might do other things, also applies to Airplay and Google Cast. Using those protocols, some other sounds might get cast as well. At least that's my experience.
"Connected" protocols such as Spotify Connect, Roon, etc are completely different, because now the stream doesn't go through your phone anymore. It is handed off to the device, and your phone just acts as a glorified remote control. Which is actually very nice, but it has another downside: it only works as long as that device supports it. Case in point was that NAD, at one point, announced that Spotify Connect was no longer supported on their C 338 amplifier. Which I think is actually why it might make sense for an amp to have cinch, toslink, coax, HDMI ARC, Airplay, Google Cast, and Bluetooth inputs, but anything more smart can be handled by dongles or pucks that in turn connect to that amplifier (probably via toslink).
Also I want to say that the "codec carousel" should really not be a surprise to anyone.
And lastly, you saying "the codec is not the problem, bluetooth is the problem"... exactly what do you mean, and why is it the problem? Can you please explain it? Because bluetooth is just radio signals, like wifi, except with different protocols and on different frequencies. So where is the problem? Not saying you're wrong, but can you back up what you are saying?
Randy complaining about Apple's limiited Bluetooth is like someone saying they can't make a decent cake when all they have is a toaster oven. For a while I used BT LDAC on a 2018 Google Pixel 3 (now Pixel 7). Bandwidth is 600-900 kbps, so far less lossy than what Apple can manage.
Wrong! I agree generally on your Bluetooth assessment. However, the 'ifi Zen Blue' Bluetooth streamer is an excellent sounding exception. You must try it, Randy! I sometimes prefer its sound to the wiim mini. Seriously.
To me Bluetooth sounds great. But, what do I know. I'm only a professional sound engineer with 35 years of working experience who owns 4 high end systems and a million dollar recording studio. When I stream MQA off Tidal it is only marginally better than a good BT signal. My only grip is BT locks out the next user if you forget to disconnect.
Sound engineer, respect…. However, if you don’t hear much of a difference it could be where your hearing is at , experience doesn’t change that…..
@@keithmoriyama5421 professional sound engineer with no online presence whatsoever. I call BS.
Amen. I've been using BT devices since 2015 and the quality has been great. Maybe prior BT was bad. Many people's only internet connection is from their phone. The more BT is used, the better it will evolve in future iterations.
I agree for sound quality, but I agree even more for use-ability sake.
We had BT in our kitchen for a while, so any of our family could DJ during lunch or dinner or any kitchentable session.
That part we loved, the BT not so much.
It was way before WIIM and I bought a ChromeCast video with an HDMI extractor and bam, way, way betterrrrr.
The one that was DJ-ing could walk away with their phone, no issue. Everybody can take over, everybody can do volume control. Now we moved to a WIIM Amp in the kitchen with even more joy. Still a lot of chromecast and during the day we mostly listen to radio, the stations that are on my preset one and two.
We don't even touch the phone, just the remote, works flawless every time.
And then putting more devices in one group, so we walk from kitchen to livingroom and still listen to the same stuff, flawless.
BT is fine in the car and while running, full stop. Now I have ChromeCast playback in my back garden too.
Alternative A2DP driver works well on a PC.. This comes from a boomer who has set up recording studios, worked with musicians and who began chopping up reel tape in 1973 as a kid. This does need a revisit. My room still consists of 1000s of CDs, more LPS and a fair amount of tape. I gather this is your opinion.. However your channel is becoming choppy. Constructive criticism.
There are some exceptions to the rule, Rotel implement the Bluetooth to a very good standard . Plus its great for Bluetooth speakers when your out and about, either speaker or headphones . So there is a place for it .. Its cheap enough to have both nowadays..
The crappy thing about Apple is that you can bet if Steve Jobs were still alive, they would have upped their audio game significantly by now beyond 320KHz AAC. Yeah, knowing Apple they would have done something proprietary, so you'd have to buy their phone and their Bluetooth or whatever device to make it work to lock you into their eco-system.
I still use it in certain cases. Never with headphones and never with my built sound systems. I do however have a small portable speaker that I take to the front porch (no system out there yet!) and I certainly do use it in the car.
Every delighted audiophile has to hate:
Bluetooth,
Bose,
Blindtests,
and Bud light
;-)
Bluetooth isnt the greatest for quality and i'll never understand the point to a bluetooth turntable. That said, little compares to bluetooth for convenience. I would never use them for critical listening but most of my days are spent using a pair of multipoint bluetooth headphones that simultaneously connect to. My phone, tablet, and work pc. Phone is for personal calls, tablet ks for music and videos, and thd work pc is for calls and zoom/teams meetings. The quality isnt the best but the setip is kore than serviceable during working hours.
RE: 'Sounds terrible'... I'm all in for proper cabled earphones (have multiple sets).. But, have you tried aptX Lossless? What is it like? Is it the best BT will ever get? How does it compare with cabled 'Ear gear'? 🤔😏 😎🇬🇧
aptx lossless will switched to something else if it is crowed and has inference. You have no control. Going uPnP and wired headphones is better. wi-fi 7 might change it all.
Bluetooth in a moving vehicle is ok, that environment is terrible for serious listening anyway. I never define myself as an audiophool.
I have a Bluesound Node in one room and also send music to another system in a different room via a Ifi bluetooth receiver and it sounds great. I also only use Android phones for private listing on the move and wouldn't touch Apple with a barge pole .But thats my choice and I'm happy with it ,but to be honest its my choice in music that makes me happy ,so however you listen just enjoy it.
Only one noise ordnance violation (2 blocks from train track). I noticed the screws outside moble home are backing out from bass lololol.
I feel so sorry for the all the Apple users. Too bad you're trapped in the Apple ecosystem and can't just move to Android. We warned you.
Every dinner at my house is a party! We party with the Cambridge MXN10!
I'm one of the few adapting hi-fi to car audio and I currently am having to run BT. Do not disturb and silent is set to turn on when it connects. At least do that. Having an issue I can't track down I think with the signal chain and waiting on the smsl ps100 to arrive, instead of messing with RCAs. Trade off of keeping things clean, I can't just change signal path easily.
I realise this is just a generalised post discussing Bluetooth's shortfalls but Randy has said a few times he loves using his Soundcore Liberty 4 earbuds.
For headphone amp at my computer listening I usually use my Samson SR850 (which don't break the bank and are well-regarded budget headphones - sort-of clones of the Superlux HD668B).
But to be honest, it's hard to revert back to wired headphones when you get so used to being wireless (and dealing with things like cables breaking every so often).
Pretty sure mainstream Bluetooth lossless is just a few generations away. It gets brought up every now and then in hi-fi forums.
My everyday headphones are QCY H3 which would probably horrify some audiophiles but they are fantastic for the price (and ANC headphones make life so much more peaceful too).
You're not even a boomer you should know that Bluetooth technology is almost indistinguishable from direct connection
Bluetooth can be good. Just don't use Apple devices.
Thank you Randy.
I’m disappointed because I bought an SMSL C200 DAC/headphone amplifier last year. It comes with multiple inputs, USB, Bluetooth, coaxial and optical. I was using the USB input for my phone, and it was working just fine until one day it just stopped working. My phone will not recognise the USB input and just starts playing through the phone speakers instead of through the DAC. Now I’m forced to use Bluetooth and AAC. I have noticed a significant decrease in sound quality, and I’m not impressed that now I have to buy another DAC.
I finally bought a car that has CarPlay and bluetooh. I love being able to stream my music through my Plex server into my car. It’s great not to have to use the cassette adapter or aux in on the car radio Bluetooh is perfect for short trips. I just start my Plex music and it automatically goes to the car. I will plug my phone in for longer trips and to use CarPlay. IT is amazing how much better my music sounds through the lighting cable Bluetooh on the Apple TV and TVs is great. If only all TVs had it. You’re lucky to get a headphone jack on my tv. My pioneer lsx305 has bluetooh and supports the apt X codec. I don’t miss having 2 100 foot cords plugged in to my receiver in my bedroom to watch tv via the optical cable. It’s not fun in the winter time with the static shocks I’d get. 😊
I use Bluetooth in the garage with an old Sony receiver and a Chinese Bluetooth receiver plus an iPad. Plays thru Minimus 7’s
Long live Bluetooth, Bluetooth is dead, Long live Bluetooth!
Spot on Randy. The CODEC is the problem. Well.......the biggest problem.
It is hard for me to express how tired I am of hearing how much you hate bluetooth. Also, "it's cheaper and better", seems to me to be an outright falsehood. How exactly is it cheaper to spend a 80 to 100 bucks on a streamer, then pay every month for access to your chosen stream(s), where you get to pay money every month for content you will never listen to? The reasoning behind that seems suspect.
Most of the world streams. Those that don’t are truly a minority. It doesn’t matter what’s media is perceived as better, it’s just a fact.
You still have to use a service for the music Bluetooth or wifi
@@jamesschneider3828 Really? Tell that to my Pixel 8 Pro which contains all my music on board. I prefer to own my music. Feel free to rent it yourself.
@@DB-cg1rr That may be the case but that does not make it a good decision. There are plenty of things that "Most People" do that I consider stupid.
Im totally fine with ldac, close lossless for redbook.
I haven't met anyone that can actually tell the difference between 990kbps LDAC and wired...especially as you age you can't hear high frequency anyway...not that youngsters can tell the difference either...I think we need James Randi and his coat hanger back for the amount of myths i keep seeing on these channels.
That,s why I like Tidal connect, I have a Wiim Pro for streaming HiRes audio.conected via coaxial to a SMSL SU1. I have learned a lot of yout videos. The only bad thing is I am running out of coffee. ☕
LDAC Bluetooth is good. With Bluetooth convenience, it's still an option. Manufacturers should still invest this technology to make it even better. Streamers are still difficult to work with.
I was considering buying the Qudelix-5K or the Fiio BTR15. Are neither of them actually sending LDAC like it says it does?
Both are good the Qudelix is better imo...but if you need 4.4mm get the BTR15
I have the BTR5 (2021) and it works fine at LDAC from my mid-tier Samsung phone. It isn't full CD quality, but pretty close. For my use in a car, it is plenty fine.
Android phone with ldac. Shure aonic 50 with ldac. Throw away everything apple.
This video was made in the shopping mal while waiting for wify at ladies store. 🙂 Very helpful btw. Going to check your other videos for streamers. 👍🏼🤓
I use Spotify (someone else pays for it) and I did an AB test between Wi-Fi and Bluetooth via a WiiM Pro Plus and crappy speakers (before I got nicer ones) and I still was able to tell a noticeable drop in quality. I was surprised I was able to tell a difference honestly as I only started getting into Hi-Fi.
I agree with Randy that there's no reason to use Bluetooth for intentional Hi-Fi listening since WiiM products are available and so affordable. If I have to use a portable speaker I'll take my WiiM Pro Plus and power it off a phone charger and feed that via the line out to my Bluetooth speaker Aux-In.
Also, it's easier and less hassle to get dinner party guests onto the Wi-Fi and using Spotify Connect to control music than it is to do the annoying Bluetooth pairing.
I love the analogy of UPS throwing your compressed audio down the stairs. -- i hate it when the sound skips off a Bluetooth connection. Even if it's not great fidelity, it is a horrible connection. Use wires, people.
Yup 👍
@@Audiodreamer192-24 if you do do the Bluetooth, make sure to use Bose speakers
@@doctorquestian lmao
Good one lol
Ya Bose and Bluetooth go together like a sloppy taco and warm beer….😂👍
I’ve never been a big fan of Bluetooth, especially for critical listening. It is OK for on the go usage such as wireless headphones or speakers. I even have a Wiim in my bathroom because I dislike Bluetooth that much. Do have Anker wireless IEMs and a small JBL Bluetooth speaker that I take on the go. They are just fine for that purpose, but definitely not as good as the Wiim.
Bluetooth has it's place, but hifi isn't it. It's good for background noise, it's good for easy portable setups, it's good for streaming in the car where you lose so much of the detail anyways because of all the noise. But Randy is right, if you are listening critically with good gear, Bluetooth is hot garbage. I A/B compared Bluetooth to a USB connection once. It's literally going from FLAC to 128kb MP3 and once you hear it, you can't unhear it.
What is shockingly worse is audio quality over Wireless Android Auto
For home listening, why not just go... wired?
Knocking your head over the best wireless format for home listening is... weird.
Did you by any chance record the audio for this episode on a bluetooth microphone? Lov your content brother. I could n't agree with you more!
Evidence! Show me the evidence in the form of double blind testing where people can immediately tell how bad Bluetooth is a high percentage of the time.
I dare you to try it with some excellent equipment like a pair of KEF LS60 speakers that need nothing besides a music source like toslink, USB or Bluetooth. and if Apple does such a terrible job with Bluetooth, go ahead and use an iPhone to make it all the more dramatic!
I’m not really an advocate for Bluetooth, I would just like people who make claims to back up those claims with real world testing!
Agree added WiiM and SmSl dac to my main system enjoying my streaming (tidal) now on a whole new level. If you have decent components make the change.
I have two JBL extreme speakers with Bluetooth very nice sound
But when we want to get serious, we play vinyl on vacuum tubes
Had tons of DACs with bluetooth and none have matched youtube through the TV optical even thought YT is not the best source to begin with.
And I've never used Apple
9:48 Airplay dropping to AAC needs to be explored before I splash out on a Wiim Mini.
Yep. Does it every time. I noticed that it stays at 900 with atmos though. The way I’ve been getting around it is by using my MacBook and setting the system to airplay.
John Darko has done numerous videos on this over the last two years. Airplay 2 will always default to using AAC. Only the older Airplay, call it Airplay 1, or whatever, would let you transmit ALAC. The issue was it killed iPhone batteries too quickly streaming lossless data, hence Apple "fixed it" for the non-audiophile masses by having Airplay 2 default to AAC.
@@rosswarren436interesting, I have noticed though it seems like MacBooks can do ALAC, at least it streams at 900kbps vs my iPhone at 256
@@CamaradaMejia yes, my nephew and his wife use MacBooks. I think the main "gotcha" with Apple's OS is that you have to manually select bit depths and rates. Hopefully, Apple will fix that sometime.
Bluetooth sent to my BluMe Pro, Fed to my 1979 Marantz SR2000 receiver, and Definitive Technology speakers sounds dang good to me.
There are other reasons to prefer BT over streaming: portability, cost and privacy. I am sure Linkplay collects information from the WiiM units (they are connected to the internet); add to that the cost the subscriptions