Streaming = "you will own nothing and you will be happy". I will buy records, CD's and cassette tapes and I will never pay to stream music where if I stop paying I lose everything.
Just look at old movies and shows, especially from Disney; "problematic" scenes or entire episodes get deleted and you get all sorts of trigger warnings about that in retrospect this episode isn't very appropriate so watch at your own discretion etc.
You're right, I like physical media, too. Since the late 90's there's the "loudness wars" problem, though. So every remastered CD is f*** up! But streaming is a large music source and there's always good quality streaming downloaders...
As far as hi-fi listening goes Bluetooth has been pretty much dead for many years. However when you're working out in the backyard or you're at the office working on a project where you're not supposed to be streaming music on the company network there's nothing better than a nice Bluetooth speaker.
If Tidal would make an app for the Xbox, I'd be all set. For whatever reason, they support a billion other devices, but not the millions of Xbox devices sitting in living rooms attached to nice home theater systems.
Thanks for keeping us in the loop with these products. Seriously, I really appreciate it. Love the channel and this community. And special shout-out for the reminder of what a great song 'Give Me One Reason' is by Tracy Chapman...I haven't listened to it in years. Currently streaming it from my computer with BT (oops?) via my Klipsch the Three II lol.
Hey RANDY ! I’m using usb input from windows into Ayima T8/ A08 Pro combo with handmade mogami RCA ( from toms cables or some names cables on ebay) very affordable 1 meter for like 30 bucks, and knu concepts braided speaker cables with seperately bought gold plated springy plug things that push straight into the posts. Bone stock sony cs5s. I absolutely love the clarity! I got it ALL from learning on your channel. All in items were used on ebay. The T8 was missing the vacuum tube but i got a GE for 20 bucks. I have about 300-350 max total investment. TOTALLY WORTH IT! Thanks again, Jerry
I'm still using Chromecast Audios for my bedroom and shed, combined with Chromecast Minis, going into ancient Cambridge Audio A500 amps. They sound fine to me and the voice control via the Minis is all I use 99% of the time. Until something of similar cheapness and convenience comes along - or Google brick the Audios - I don't think anything will work better for me in these uses
@@alch3mi5t. Disappointingly, been keeping an eye on Marketplace for cheap Pros and Pro + because I think they have the Google Home integration I so sorely crave but they've not really dropped in price. Intrigued what the Ultra will have to offer
Great advice and insight as always! I have the WIIM Pro Plus for streaming and it goes through a Fosi BT20A Pro. Awesome flexibility of BT direct through Fosi or streaming from WIIM to Fosi made it a great solution. Even stacking the THD between the two devices, at least based on specs, shows very little. And the ears prove it too!
I don't agree with bluetooth being dead yet. Using the Auris blueMe Pro bluetooth receiver in my bedroom with my audio system, and it sounds fantastic. The Wiim Pro Plus is reserved for my main living room system.
I have the same Bluetooth receiver in my bedroom hooked up to my 1979 Marantz SR 2000 receiver fed into Definitive Technology speakers. It sounds great.
14:08 - Totally agree. Just get a DAC. The control interface of these streaming boxes seems too clunky. It's way easier to just plug your phone or laptop into a DAC, and just play your local music or streaming app. Being able to send Hi-Fi music across the house over Wi-Fi solves a problem no one has, IMO. If you actually care about the quality of the music, you're going to sit down with your speakers anyway, in which case, the cable will reach just fine. I can't think of a scenario where I'd want to listen to music on my phone or on my laptop, and the other device wouldn't be accessible to me if I wanted to play on it while also listening to music. Thumbs-up on the video even though I personally would never buy a streaming box. They're still cool toys.
It can be great for people with cassette decks or vinyl turntables. But at that point, why wouldn't you save money and get a Bluetooth transmitter and plug it into the back of a vintage amp?
I had an issue with an Arylic product that I purchased last year. Within the warranty period, Arylic replaced it. They even paid shipping both ways. The shipping was a bit slow, but their customer service is great.
Bluetooth is not dead..I have an Audioengine B1 that I love...My speakers and amp are both 25 years old so maybe it doesn't matter to my system that the sound is a little better coming from streaming...Maybe my speakers won't reproduce it any better or my ears won't hear it any better. The cheapest audio man doesn't pay more money for something that may not make a difference to what he has.
Ifi just came out with a new reciever that supports lossless BT. Only thing is you need a device that also supports it which for now is slim to non. It is nice to see BT getting better. Even LDAC is very close to wifi and a streamer, very hard to tell a difference.
I would have considered the S10+ if the screen at least showed the service being used, the name of the artist and the current song. And Bluetooth is not dead. The newer codecs are great.
I had an Arylic amp a couple years ago based on Andrew Robinson's review. Didn't work well for me. I didn't bother with streaming again until I tried Wiim thanks to CAM. I love Wiim. I would never waste my time with Arylic again.
Bluetooth is dead? What a misleading tittle! Imagine world without Bluetooth headphones, JBL and other awesome Bluetooth speakers. Have a poll, how many peoples are still using Bluetooth nowadays!
I use as little BT as possible in my world. I use it for it’s intended purpose, which is to control other devices wirelessly. I don’t use it for critical listening to music as that was never its purpose and the compression is horrid.
I think some more details are interesting: Arylic works as a USB-DAC via USB-C. It has advanced DSP functionality via the additional ACPWorkbench software. You can program the DSP and access DSP tunings via the Go Control App. It has no Tidal Connect, which is a real drawback for me.
Arylic uses the bp1064a2 chip in most of its devices and I guess the S10+ also uses the bp1064a2. This chip works best with digital signals, so USB-DAC input (or Bluetooth input) to optical output would be a good combination. If you enable the harmonic excitation and stage enhancement settings using the ACP workbench tool, the sound quality improves dramatically.
I don't stream, CDs Cassettes and Minidiscs FTW. The only 'streaming' I do is radio from my phone to my car stereo as I live in a very fringe reception area for FM and DAB.
Hey Randy, I bought an Arylic BP50 directly from China. It had an issue(turned itself off & then wouldn't turn on for hours) Many emails back & forth couldn't solve my issue. Send it back, they said. I did & as soon as they got the postal advice, they despatched a new one to me. Quick service & a satisfactory result for me. They were very prompt in answering my emails,same day usually. They tried hard to solve it. I had another issue with the HDMI - ARC INPUT. couldn't get it to work well. Maybe my Hisense TV was this issue. Not been game to try it on the new BP50.
Wiim pretty much has the affordable streamer market cornered at this point. If Arylic or anyone else wants to make dent in the market they have to come out something that flat out beats the Wiim Mini or Pro for the same or less money. This is basically 60% of the features and performance of Wiim Mini for 90% the cost and thats simply not going to get anyone's attention.
High pass filter can also be used if your speakers distort at lower frequencies. Great if you're just getting started and your inexpensive speakers are acting out. under 60hz as an example.
I've been on the affordable streaming bandwagon for years now, using Raspberry Pi based systems that sound great! I think streaming is not a substitute of Bluetooth, in the sense that Bluetooth is great for headphone listening on the go or while you're doing some work around the house.
Streamers are great, but they don't solve the needing a wifi network problem. If you're anywhere without wifi, you need Bluetooth. Once I can control my streamer and have it use my celluar data without using hotspot data, then bluetooth can be dead.
way back when they both came from Linkplay....I had both an Arylic and Wiim product. Wiim regularly updated their software and Arylic did not and was very wonky during operation. Kept Wiim and chucked the Arylic.
For me (subjective opinion follows), a streamer should just do streaming when I don't want to have to turn on my PC. It shouldn't do any DAC work at all. But it's nice that the Arylic does it, if you don't already have a DAC, just an AMP. This Arylic device could be nice in my set up (Internet - DAC/AMP - headphones), as I'm biased to wired connections over wireless connections (even though wifi > bluettoth of course), so the LAN connection would be an advantage over the WiiM mini. Not over the Wiim Pro, but that's a >$100 difference with the Arylic. But then I agree with you on the software end. In the long run for most people software UX trumps initial one-time investment. That's why many people use Apple (not me though, I find the Apple ecosystem too restrictive).
Could not Disagree more, my Audiolab amp has both a streamer and Bluetooth, I used to use both for Internet Radio only and found that thru comparing AB the mp3 radio signal is not further compressed by Bluetooth: they sound equally excellent! So now I don't bother using the streamer app anymore, I now listen directly to my favourite stations thru Bluetooth, so much less hassle. So Bluetooth is alive and kicking! I will say however it also depends on how well the Bluetooth function is integrated in the amp. For instance, the Advance Paris A10 classic uses its own internal dac for Bluetooth, not some crappy afterthought dac, making the most of Bluetooth. But some amps have just horrible Bluetooth integration, like the cxa61 by Cambridge audio, it sounded like shite. But Randy, I urge you to at least try and test the Bluetooth on your beloved A10 with the WTX bluetooth devices by Advance Paris too, or even its separate dongle, you will be surprised how good it can sound. Atb, Gerlach Sven.
I think bluetooth does the job just fine for what it is. I honestly can't hear the difference between usb direct to dac and bluetooth via headphones for music and movies (HD800s via Topping DX7 pro) and I use it this way for convenience.
General question regarding how to approach improving a system's audio performance. For example, audio from my system sometimes sounds thin and "tingy" on the high end. How can one know which is the best route for improvement, i.e., speakers, amp, DAC, speaker cable, component interconnects, equalizer/tone control adjustments,, tin foil shielding around the building to block space laser interference, etc.?
I can help narrow it down for you; it's not your speaker cables or component interconnects, and it probably isn't your DAC either. It's most likely a resonant peak in your speakers' frequency response, which might be created and/or amplified by the acoustics in your listening room. A good EQ is the pretty much only affordable way to accurately and precisely attenuate specific frequencies that are causing harsh resonances or distortion in your system. If you really want to get as clinically perfect as possible in your listening area, you can really work some magic with RoomEQ.
Arylic actually created the market of the affordable amp controlled all included streamers... Wiim came and kicked the door but in my opinion the mid-tear Arylic products are very good. I am still to try the pro+ by Wiim and compare though.
i have a massive hi-res collection that no streamer matches, though i like the user experience @ Qobuz (used to like Tidal's as well but not since they've revamped it). so the DAC function is way more important to me. so something like the Eversolo DMP-A6 appeals to me, esp. w/ the onboard m.2 storage.
I"m confused. Buetooth is there because its a low power link used because wifi has historically been much faster, more hz, more battery consumption. It also has specific "applications" which mean that devices with a headphone "profile" know how to do music. To replace bluetooth for audio, you need very low-power wifi to your headphones and also you need your headphones to understand a standardised audio format, be able to connect to sources etc over a standard network. All good ideas, but are we there yet? Seems like we need the ability to relay bluetooth over ethernet (say to a phone) and then native bluetooth to headphones, or fold bluetooth into IP/wifi. That would give me the ability to stretch my BT headphone range around the house, beyond the reach of my USB dongle.
I appreciate you and your channel so much, Randy! I have been waiting to see a USB input on an inexpensive device - making this a 'truer' streamer, imho. I have and use Wiim mini & Pro and have other streamers which use Volumio. My questions, does either software show/control the music on a jumpdrive and what are the sources available, such as TuneIn, Radio Paradise, SPotify, etc.? I'd love a short followup video on the parts so important - the sources.
Probably sooner than later there will be super smart AI speakers that will adjust to the exact frequency and decibals to whatever type music and when that happens, the mastering won't make any difference, or much else. I hope it's much later. I'm 74 but it would be interesting to witness the changes in the world of audio which is already moving to fast imo.
@@HappyJ Yep, my main point was the Chromecast Audio, which came out in about 2915 I believe, does WiFi streaming. Sadly discontinued but Wiim aren't doing much more than the Chromecast Audio ever did. And the Chromecast Audio was cheaper
Agreed that software quality is more of a differentiator than hardware for streamers. WiiM well worth the extra cost for the better software and support. No contest.
Bluetooth is fine for listening to IHeart Radio or Pandora from my laptop or phone. The quality is a lot like listening to FM radio. Serious listening requires vinyl or CD or SACD.
I have never used BT, always streamed at least FLAC quality from local or internet. And btw, FLAC is also compressed, it is just losslessly compressed.
You can get pretty good sound these days for a pretty low price compared to the old days. But I still prefer the sound of the old school big bulky premium analog stuff from the 70s and 80s. I may try one of these systems out though. Or maybe I'll try a combination with a digital to analog converter, if there's a good option.
Yes it is and Yes I am. The number 1 reasons for me is that wireless data transfer is more vulnerable to signal loss. Signal Loss could cause Tom Scholz to walk out on me. I can't let that happen.
Does a WIIM or an Arylic provide enough uplift in quality to make it worthwhile for a desktop PC with Spotify and Amazon Unlimited? I have Klipsch The Sixes with a 48" Oled Monitor and I want my sound to match the quality of my peripherals. Does that use case even make sense?
Definitely worth it, imo. Use a device by wire vs bt and that will give you a good idea. Also, switch to Tidal. I just did a month ago and very happy with it. You have nice speakers, they deserve better 👌🏼
Randy, correct me if I am mistaken, but there is such a thing as lossless compression. It's actually based on a very simple process. FLAC and ALAC are examples of this. There's nothing inferior about it since the result is bit-for-bit identical to the uncompressed original.
@@GeirRssaak Actually, in the context of Bluetooth - which is what he is talking about here, he's 100% correct. Bluetooth uses one of 4 compression standards, and they are all lossy. I took it out of context.
I have the Wiim Pro to smsl su-1. Also have Ifi zen blue bluetooth receiver. The ifi has superior sound quality. Would love to try an EverSolo streamer. Edit: I was streaming LDAC to the Ifi.
Downloading any Chinese app in your smartphone or tablet means your metadata gos straight to the CCP where is going to be collected, analysed, profiled and stored. Amplifiers, preamplifiers, speakers and any device that doesn’t need internet made in China, sure, no problem they are good in my book.
What’s the best method of streaming Apple music? Haven’t quite caught on to all the different formats and what not. At the moment I just Blu tooth connect to w/e device whether it be to my RZ-50 or a little Douk Audio amp I picked up. Not lookin to set the world on fire but if a simple upgrade would help utilize the service. I’m interested.
My music streamer for my headphone, is my ipad, usb out to dac, to headphone amps. For my main system, my apple tv into pre\pro or my iphone, USB out into pre\pro. Apple usb out gives you the bitrate of the source as well. I still don’t get why people need a dedicated streamer.
Sounds good, anything to displace Bluetooth, However is the phone interface all you have? Sometimes it's just nice to have a full computer screen, see all your music not just a continual thumb ache from continuous swiping.
@@btodoroffQuality wise, that's true often enough. But the acoustic situation in a properly dampened car is somewhere between listening in a regular room, and headphones. Effectively it's a TINY, super sound deadened room (apart from windows, there's 80% cloth surface) with super near field speakers, which is beneficial for checking details. The famous car test isn't a widely popular cross referencing method with music producers for no reason. If your production sounds good in a car, it sounds good everywhere. Can personally confirm.
For me it's not about sound quality. In small places, like a car, Bluetooth works pretty well. However at home, I find when streaming music beyond 20 feet results in numerous drop outs, even using the newest Bluetooth devices. I would never use anything but WiFi now.
BT streaming in noisy RF environment or increasing distance reduces bitrate throughput and increases resends to accommodate dropouts. There's no indicator for what bitrate or built-in BT codec you're streaming to your headphones or speakers. Indeed, some hardware defaults right down to SBC. Also, assorted hardware transmits at comparatively varying power levels. Google says "AAC has a higher bit depth than SBC but is lower in the other audio aspects. Regardless, SBC performs worse than AAC, thanks to its better compression algorithm. Apple devices can run this codec optimally, which is a significant step up. However, it has high latency, which is not ideal for gaming." and "The standard SBC codec offers up to 48kHz audio sampling rates in a 16-bit depth resolution. It offers bitrates up to 320kbps. Most of the time, the codec suffers from insufficient audio quality and higher latency." So maybe Apple is the best as it takes full advantage of SBCs algorithm?
I never thought I would get into streaming, but over the years I have learned to appreciate the technology and am doing it more and more. That said, I don't see the need for a separate streaming component. In one of my systems, I use my LG V40 as the streaming device and use Bluetooth to connect to my DAC over LDAC. I get a full 96K doing that, so it sounds great, and I have the control head right in the palm of my hand. Can't do that with your little puck there. So no, Bluetooth is far from dead.
Randy let me ask you this, which stream supports apple iTunes lossless? Any, or is the best way for me, is connect my iPhone, or iPad to a DAC via USB and use those devices as a streamer.
You still have to pay for internet. No? I pay $106 for Spectrum: internet, voip phone, and 200 tv channels. I told them I only want internet. They replied so that'll be $120. You save when you bundle.
Hi Randy. Loving your videos lately, thank you for all the good information. I'm about take a punt on the S10 plus, as it is on Amazon UK for £39.99 (approx $50) Quick question, should i connect using an optical cable or via the RCA output? It will be going into a topping DX3 pro plus, powered by a Fosi V3. Thanks for any advice.
Airplay is lossless, but caps frequency at 48kHz. However, it does offer the best resolution available which is 24bit, so it's still considered hi def. I do not know if the s10 does Airplay.
I know it costs more, but the Bluesound node sounds so much better than a Wiim, and better than a Wiim coupled with most dacs that cost a couple hundred dollars, like the Geshelli Lab J2 Akm4493. Wiim does have great app, great EQ, Bluesound node has tone controls that do not seem to work, but when disabled, sounds great. Wiim is awesome for price. But Bluesound just sounds better.
If you need to use your phone to control the device, you might as well use your phone to begin with. Also, hi res audio isn’t that noticeable via streaming. Honestly, without a dedicated screen to run the apps on a streamer, they’re kinda pointless in my opinion. Bc as I said, you already have a phone with literally every app and more than any streamer out there. Bought a WiiAmp and had to return it bc having to use your phone for any little change to the device, it was pointless. I bought a small dedicated screen and connected an Apple TV to it. Being able to also listen to live shows on RUclips that aren’t available in just audio, another plus.
Hi Res Audio is noticeable during streaming. Very much so when running airplay (which isn't really high res). And I didn't say high res I said lossless. I"m glad you're getting everything that you need through an Apple TV though. I have about 4 of them throughout the house. But if you're happy with airplay and or bluetooth then that's all that matters. It sounds like you found the solution which is right for you
Our devices always stream from the internet. I thought maybe a new wireless standard for headphones came out or something. The music has to get your devices somehow. Like Bluetooth or wires. This title is so clickbaity. Music doesn't stream to my phone from the server over Bluetooth. 🤣
I have an S10+. The old one, a lot smaller, MUCH better screen, and behold... it got Bluetooth as well. 😂 Seriously, who at Arylic thought the S10 and S10+ naming was a good idea?
A question. I have a Pioneer receiver VSX-LX505. I play via AirPlay2 from my phone (which is CD quality I believe). Do I even need any dedicated streamer?
I'm confused. Yeah, HATE Bluetooth. What I _really_ want is something to losslessly stream (and without latency) via WiFi the audio from my PC; will-or-won't this thing do that? Clarifying, I can do room/speaker EQ and compression on my host system and pre-process the sound before sending it, so I don't need an endpoint device to do that stuff. I do need a software driver on my host system to create the appearance of that audio device. Can I just stream audio losslessly/latency-free via WiFi?
Usually, if the information listing does not say AirPlay to it is AirPlay one. My main issue one is that it is not compatible. I’m not sure if you can mix and match AirPlay one and AirPlay two devices either. I mean, I know that you can cast to both with an iOS device, but Cannot play to both AirPlay 2 and AirPlay one at the same time.
I was hoping this could be an affordable alternative to the WIIM pro but lack of AirPlay 2 compatibility makes it a no go in my scenario. Every other device I cast to my house is AirPlay 2.
Streaming is usually compressed (I'm looking at you Spotify) - so unless you have a good wifi connection, and the source is lossless you will still get lossy. So...... not sure what your point is here. AirPlay is over wifi, so you can get lossless to your speakers if your source is lossless.
BT is still a viable option for mp3 players. LDAC sounds good! maybe not like streaming but once upon a time everyone loves listening to FM radio and BT sounds better than FM radio.
Ok. I was drawn to this episode because of the Blutooth (or an improvement there of). But all I got out of it was a comparison between 2 streaming products that I have no idea what they do. So, my line of thought; if I want to stream something, I use Roku. If I want to listen to music I’ve downloaded on my phone I just turn on the Bluetooth. So, what do these products do? And what do they have to do with Bluetooth?
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Streaming = "you will own nothing and you will be happy". I will buy records, CD's and cassette tapes and I will never pay to stream music where if I stop paying I lose everything.
Please invite me when that happens. We'll play some tunes together. :)
Not to mention of your ISP goes down, u can stil enjoy your music 😊❤
Just look at old movies and shows, especially from Disney; "problematic" scenes or entire episodes get deleted and you get all sorts of trigger warnings about that in retrospect this episode isn't very appropriate so watch at your own discretion etc.
I own and buy cds and records, but I also use Spotify in my car. If it goes away I still have my physical media. You can use both.
You're right, I like physical media, too. Since the late 90's there's the "loudness wars" problem, though. So every remastered CD is f*** up! But streaming is a large music source and there's always good quality streaming downloaders...
If you want/need a BT receiver that does higher resolution, neither of the two devices has Aptx-HD or the LDAC codecs.
@@trudimcleod5042 which is fine because +384kb SBC sounds great for +99% of people and typical use.
Thanks!
@@kennygerlach8515 thank you so much for your support, my friend! So generous of you
As far as hi-fi listening goes Bluetooth has been pretty much dead for many years. However when you're working out in the backyard or you're at the office working on a project where you're not supposed to be streaming music on the company network there's nothing better than a nice Bluetooth speaker.
change the employer asap 😉
Or in a car and you connect via bluetooth to stream spotify etc
True
If Tidal would make an app for the Xbox, I'd be all set. For whatever reason, they support a billion other devices, but not the millions of Xbox devices sitting in living rooms attached to nice home theater systems.
Thanks for keeping us in the loop with these products. Seriously, I really appreciate it. Love the channel and this community. And special shout-out for the reminder of what a great song 'Give Me One Reason' is by Tracy Chapman...I haven't listened to it in years. Currently streaming it from my computer with BT (oops?) via my Klipsch the Three II lol.
Hey RANDY ! I’m using usb input from windows into Ayima T8/ A08 Pro combo with handmade mogami RCA ( from toms cables or some names cables on ebay) very affordable 1 meter for like 30 bucks, and knu concepts braided speaker cables with seperately bought gold plated springy plug things that push straight into the posts. Bone stock sony cs5s. I absolutely love the clarity! I got it ALL from learning on your channel. All in items were used on ebay. The T8 was missing the vacuum tube but i got a GE for 20 bucks. I have about 300-350 max total investment. TOTALLY WORTH IT! Thanks again, Jerry
Wow! that's awesome. I love hearing stories like this
I'm still using Chromecast Audios for my bedroom and shed, combined with Chromecast Minis, going into ancient Cambridge Audio A500 amps. They sound fine to me and the voice control via the Minis is all I use 99% of the time. Until something of similar cheapness and convenience comes along - or Google brick the Audios - I don't think anything will work better for me in these uses
Same
me anaw. Gonna bite on the WiiM Ultra though when it drops. Not counting down the days....I'll grab one this year or next year. *shrugs*
@@alch3mi5t. Disappointingly, been keeping an eye on Marketplace for cheap Pros and Pro + because I think they have the Google Home integration I so sorely crave but they've not really dropped in price. Intrigued what the Ultra will have to offer
I keep searching for my CCA replacement, but in the end, there's no reason for me to replace it.
@@PMantle Mad, innit. Just such an almost perfectly real
Great advice and insight as always! I have the WIIM Pro Plus for streaming and it goes through a Fosi BT20A Pro. Awesome flexibility of BT direct through Fosi or streaming from WIIM to Fosi made it a great solution. Even stacking the THD between the two devices, at least based on specs, shows very little. And the ears prove it too!
I don't agree with bluetooth being dead yet. Using the Auris blueMe Pro bluetooth receiver in my bedroom with my audio system, and it sounds fantastic. The Wiim Pro Plus is reserved for my main living room system.
Agreed. Auris BlueMe Pro is my favorite.
I have the same Bluetooth receiver in my bedroom hooked up to my 1979 Marantz SR 2000 receiver fed into Definitive Technology speakers. It sounds great.
14:08 - Totally agree. Just get a DAC. The control interface of these streaming boxes seems too clunky. It's way easier to just plug your phone or laptop into a DAC, and just play your local music or streaming app. Being able to send Hi-Fi music across the house over Wi-Fi solves a problem no one has, IMO. If you actually care about the quality of the music, you're going to sit down with your speakers anyway, in which case, the cable will reach just fine. I can't think of a scenario where I'd want to listen to music on my phone or on my laptop, and the other device wouldn't be accessible to me if I wanted to play on it while also listening to music. Thumbs-up on the video even though I personally would never buy a streaming box. They're still cool toys.
It can be great for people with cassette decks or vinyl turntables. But at that point, why wouldn't you save money and get a Bluetooth transmitter and plug it into the back of a vintage amp?
WiiM now supports 10 band PEQ and room correction
I had an issue with an Arylic product that I purchased last year. Within the warranty period, Arylic replaced it. They even paid shipping both ways. The shipping was a bit slow, but their customer service is great.
Bluetooth is not dead..I have an Audioengine B1 that I love...My speakers and amp are both 25 years old so maybe it doesn't matter to my system that the sound is a little better coming from streaming...Maybe my speakers won't reproduce it any better or my ears won't hear it any better. The cheapest audio man doesn't pay more money for something that may not make a difference to what he has.
Lossless bluetooth?
Ifi just came out with a new reciever that supports lossless BT. Only thing is you need a device that also supports it which for now is slim to non. It is nice to see BT getting better. Even LDAC is very close to wifi and a streamer, very hard to tell a difference.
@@mattburgess2and is CD quality lossless.
@@pzboyz72 basically on par with CD quality. I highly doubt the human ear can tell a difference
I would have considered the S10+ if the screen at least showed the service being used, the name of the artist and the current song. And Bluetooth is not dead. The newer codecs are great.
I had an Arylic amp a couple years ago based on Andrew Robinson's review. Didn't work well for me. I didn't bother with streaming again until I tried Wiim thanks to CAM. I love Wiim. I would never waste my time with Arylic again.
Hmm... the Arylic's SNR is rated at 91dB. Looks like they cut some corners with the power filtering or the OP amp.
Bluetooth is dead? What a misleading tittle! Imagine world without Bluetooth headphones, JBL and other awesome Bluetooth speakers. Have a poll, how many peoples are still using Bluetooth nowadays!
Bluetooth sucks soo much
If you watched the video to its conclusion you'd see where the title came from
@@cheapaudioman you tell him Rando
@@cheapaudioman sorta...kinda...uh yeah, no
I use as little BT as possible in my world. I use it for it’s intended purpose, which is to control other devices wirelessly. I don’t use it for critical listening to music as that was never its purpose and the compression is horrid.
I think some more details are interesting: Arylic works as a USB-DAC via USB-C. It has advanced DSP functionality via the additional ACPWorkbench software. You can program the DSP and access DSP tunings via the Go Control App. It has no Tidal Connect, which is a real drawback for me.
Wiim Pro Plus - with AKM 4493 DAC - Yes, that WiiM is good. 😂
With a Wii U😊
🤮
@@razzman2987 🤣
There are times when the direct device to device handshake Bluetooth provides is useful. No wifi required. I’m glad it’s an option on my WiiM devices.
Arylic uses the bp1064a2 chip in most of its devices and I guess the S10+ also uses the bp1064a2. This chip works best with digital signals, so USB-DAC input (or Bluetooth input) to optical output would be a good combination. If you enable the harmonic excitation and stage enhancement settings using the ACP workbench tool, the sound quality improves dramatically.
I don't stream, CDs Cassettes and Minidiscs FTW. The only 'streaming' I do is radio from my phone to my car stereo as I live in a very fringe reception area for FM and DAB.
Hey Randy, I bought an Arylic BP50 directly from China. It had an issue(turned itself off & then wouldn't turn on for hours)
Many emails back & forth couldn't solve my issue.
Send it back, they said. I did & as soon as they got the postal advice, they despatched a new one to me.
Quick service & a satisfactory result for me.
They were very prompt in answering my emails,same day usually.
They tried hard to solve it.
I had another issue with the HDMI - ARC INPUT. couldn't get it to work well. Maybe my Hisense TV was this issue. Not been game to try it on the new BP50.
Wiim pretty much has the affordable streamer market cornered at this point. If Arylic or anyone else wants to make dent in the market they have to come out something that flat out beats the Wiim Mini or Pro for the same or less money. This is basically 60% of the features and performance of Wiim Mini for 90% the cost and thats simply not going to get anyone's attention.
I have lots of hifi equipment. I still use bluetooth often. It's just so convenient.
Also all the intenet connected stuff is just so annoying.
The pro-ject BT box with optical audio to the Fiio D03K diagrees with you. Never has a cheaper wireless combo delivered better sound.
High pass filter can also be used if your speakers distort at lower frequencies. Great if you're just getting started and your inexpensive speakers are acting out. under 60hz as an example.
Don't forget Chromecast Audio. I'm glad I bought 6 of them while they were being liquidated at around $20 a piece!
Nice Review...!!! Great Presentation...!!!
I've been on the affordable streaming bandwagon for years now, using Raspberry Pi based systems that sound great! I think streaming is not a substitute of Bluetooth, in the sense that Bluetooth is great for headphone listening on the go or while you're doing some work around the house.
Streamers are great, but they don't solve the needing a wifi network problem. If you're anywhere without wifi, you need Bluetooth. Once I can control my streamer and have it use my celluar data without using hotspot data, then bluetooth can be dead.
Great video. How about investing in an inexpensive camera dolly for those close up tracking shots so we can then moan about how you've gone all fancy😅
way back when they both came from Linkplay....I had both an Arylic and Wiim product. Wiim regularly updated their software and Arylic did not and was very wonky during operation. Kept Wiim and chucked the Arylic.
For me (subjective opinion follows), a streamer should just do streaming when I don't want to have to turn on my PC. It shouldn't do any DAC work at all. But it's nice that the Arylic does it, if you don't already have a DAC, just an AMP.
This Arylic device could be nice in my set up (Internet - DAC/AMP - headphones), as I'm biased to wired connections over wireless connections (even though wifi > bluettoth of course), so the LAN connection would be an advantage over the WiiM mini. Not over the Wiim Pro, but that's a >$100 difference with the Arylic.
But then I agree with you on the software end. In the long run for most people software UX trumps initial one-time investment. That's why many people use Apple (not me though, I find the Apple ecosystem too restrictive).
Could not Disagree more, my Audiolab amp has both a streamer and Bluetooth, I used to use both for Internet Radio only and found that thru comparing AB the mp3 radio signal is not further compressed by Bluetooth: they sound equally excellent! So now I don't bother using the streamer app anymore, I now listen directly to my favourite stations thru Bluetooth, so much less hassle. So Bluetooth is alive and kicking! I will say however it also depends on how well the Bluetooth function is integrated in the amp. For instance, the Advance Paris A10 classic uses its own internal dac for Bluetooth, not some crappy afterthought dac, making the most of Bluetooth. But some amps have just horrible Bluetooth integration, like the cxa61 by Cambridge audio, it sounded like shite. But Randy, I urge you to at least try and test the Bluetooth on your beloved A10 with the WTX bluetooth devices by Advance Paris too, or even its separate dongle, you will be surprised how good it can sound. Atb, Gerlach Sven.
i still prefer actual physical eqs. they are more adjustable than any digital simulation eqs
I think bluetooth does the job just fine for what it is. I honestly can't hear the difference between usb direct to dac and bluetooth via headphones for music and movies (HD800s via Topping DX7 pro) and I use it this way for convenience.
"Gimme one reason to stay with Bluetooth, and I'll turn right back around..."
General question regarding how to approach improving a system's audio performance. For example, audio from my system sometimes sounds thin and "tingy" on the high end. How can one know which is the best route for improvement, i.e., speakers, amp, DAC, speaker cable, component interconnects, equalizer/tone control adjustments,, tin foil shielding around the building to block space laser interference, etc.?
I can help narrow it down for you; it's not your speaker cables or component interconnects, and it probably isn't your DAC either. It's most likely a resonant peak in your speakers' frequency response, which might be created and/or amplified by the acoustics in your listening room. A good EQ is the pretty much only affordable way to accurately and precisely attenuate specific frequencies that are causing harsh resonances or distortion in your system. If you really want to get as clinically perfect as possible in your listening area, you can really work some magic with RoomEQ.
Arylic actually created the market of the affordable amp controlled all included streamers... Wiim came and kicked the door but in my opinion the mid-tear Arylic products are very good. I am still to try the pro+ by Wiim and compare though.
My system: PC->Yamaha CX-A5000->Anthem MCA50->NHT
Haven’t we already had a solution for many years with AirPlay 2?
That record store (on your shirt) is awesome!
i have a massive hi-res collection that no streamer matches, though i like the user experience @ Qobuz (used to like Tidal's as well but not since they've revamped it). so the DAC function is way more important to me. so something like the Eversolo DMP-A6 appeals to me, esp. w/ the onboard m.2 storage.
Hey Buddy, just found your channel a few days ago. Please do more reviews of gear from Aliexpress and Temu. Especially the Chinesium tube amps.
I"m confused. Buetooth is there because its a low power link used because wifi has historically been much faster, more hz, more battery consumption. It also has specific "applications" which mean that devices with a headphone "profile" know how to do music. To replace bluetooth for audio, you need very low-power wifi to your headphones and also you need your headphones to understand a standardised audio format, be able to connect to sources etc over a standard network. All good ideas, but are we there yet?
Seems like we need the ability to relay bluetooth over ethernet (say to a phone) and then native bluetooth to headphones, or fold bluetooth into IP/wifi. That would give me the ability to stretch my BT headphone range around the house, beyond the reach of my USB dongle.
Did you know Bluetooth is named after a Viking, it was developed by a Norwegian company or something and they named it after him.
I appreciate you and your channel so much, Randy! I have been waiting to see a USB input on an inexpensive device - making this a 'truer' streamer, imho. I have and use Wiim mini & Pro and have other streamers which use Volumio. My questions, does either software show/control the music on a jumpdrive and what are the sources available, such as TuneIn, Radio Paradise, SPotify, etc.? I'd love a short followup video on the parts so important - the sources.
Probably sooner than later there will be super smart AI speakers that will adjust to the exact frequency and decibals to whatever type music and when that happens, the mastering won't make any difference, or much else. I hope it's much later. I'm 74 but it would be interesting to witness the changes in the world of audio which is already moving to fast imo.
How is this different than my old chromecast audio...not sure what this thing does differently.
would have been nice to know what that thing was and what it did but had to keep skipping forward to find out but then it ended.
Chromecast Audio called...
Unfortunately, the WiiM mini will not do Chromecast.
@@HappyJ Yep, my main point was the Chromecast Audio, which came out in about 2915 I believe, does WiFi streaming. Sadly discontinued but Wiim aren't doing much more than the Chromecast Audio ever did. And the Chromecast Audio was cheaper
Agreed that software quality is more of a differentiator than hardware for streamers. WiiM well worth the extra cost for the better software and support. No contest.
Bluetooth is fine for listening to IHeart Radio or Pandora from my laptop or phone. The quality is a lot like listening to FM radio. Serious listening requires vinyl or CD or SACD.
I have never used BT, always streamed at least FLAC quality from local or internet. And btw, FLAC is also compressed, it is just losslessly compressed.
You can get pretty good sound these days for a pretty low price compared to the old days. But I still prefer the sound of the old school big bulky premium analog stuff from the 70s and 80s. I may try one of these systems out though. Or maybe I'll try a combination with a digital to analog converter, if there's a good option.
I’m 63 years young leagally blind all my life ears better than a dogs thanks for your guidance with apps and software I have to be cheap 5 *s to you
Yes it is and Yes I am.
The number 1 reasons for me is that wireless data transfer is more vulnerable to signal loss.
Signal Loss could cause Tom Scholz to walk out on me.
I can't let that happen.
Does a WIIM or an Arylic provide enough uplift in quality to make it worthwhile for a desktop PC with Spotify and Amazon Unlimited? I have Klipsch The Sixes with a 48" Oled Monitor and I want my sound to match the quality of my peripherals. Does that use case even make sense?
Definitely worth it, imo. Use a device by wire vs bt and that will give you a good idea. Also, switch to Tidal. I just did a month ago and very happy with it. You have nice speakers, they deserve better 👌🏼
No its not ..for background music its ok
Randy, correct me if I am mistaken, but there is such a thing as lossless compression. It's actually based on a very simple process. FLAC and ALAC are examples of this. There's nothing inferior about it since the result is bit-for-bit identical to the uncompressed original.
the compression I was referring to is the one used in BT and airplay and chrome cast. you're right, WAV to FLAC is lossless
@@cheapaudioman Got it. I should have taken it in-context. Cheers. Love the channel!
You are so right!
Coffee audio man does not understand basic analoge-digital principlels!
@@GeirRssaak Actually, in the context of Bluetooth - which is what he is talking about here, he's 100% correct. Bluetooth uses one of 4 compression standards, and they are all lossy. I took it out of context.
I have the Wiim Pro to smsl su-1. Also have Ifi zen blue bluetooth receiver. The ifi has superior sound quality.
Would love to try an EverSolo streamer.
Edit: I was streaming LDAC to the Ifi.
I keep looking for a budget upgrade to my Wiim Mini x SMSL SU-1 combo and have yet to find it. I still see no reason to upgrade right now.
prefer cables and (not so) cheap audio, but I like your show
Downloading any Chinese app in your smartphone or tablet means your metadata gos straight to the CCP where is going to be collected, analysed, profiled and stored. Amplifiers, preamplifiers, speakers and any device that doesn’t need internet made in China, sure, no problem they are good in my book.
They already built your phone.
@@ThePurpleFriday it doesn’t matter if the chips and os are not Chinese.
What’s the best method of streaming Apple music? Haven’t quite caught on to all the different formats and what not. At the moment I just Blu tooth connect to w/e device whether it be to my RZ-50 or a little Douk Audio amp I picked up. Not lookin to set the world on fire but if a simple upgrade would help utilize the service. I’m interested.
My music streamer for my headphone, is my ipad, usb out to dac, to headphone amps. For my main system, my apple tv into pre\pro or my iphone, USB out into pre\pro. Apple usb out gives you the bitrate of the source as well. I still don’t get why people need a dedicated streamer.
Sounds good, anything to displace Bluetooth, However is the phone interface all you have? Sometimes it's just nice to have a full computer screen, see all your music not just a continual thumb ache from continuous swiping.
For some reason, bluetooth in my car from my phone sounds fantastic, but at home, it sounds mediocre no matter how many bluetooth devices I've tried.
Listening environment in a car even with an excellent system is inferior enough to mask the BT quality. So (BT = car)
@@btodoroffQuality wise, that's true often enough. But the acoustic situation in a properly dampened car is somewhere between listening in a regular room, and headphones. Effectively it's a TINY, super sound deadened room (apart from windows, there's 80% cloth surface) with super near field speakers, which is beneficial for checking details.
The famous car test isn't a widely popular cross referencing method with music producers for no reason. If your production sounds good in a car, it sounds good everywhere. Can personally confirm.
Expectations???
For me it's not about sound quality. In small places, like a car, Bluetooth works pretty well. However at home, I find when streaming music beyond 20 feet results in numerous drop outs, even using the newest Bluetooth devices. I would never use anything but WiFi now.
BT streaming in noisy RF environment or increasing distance reduces bitrate throughput and increases resends to accommodate dropouts. There's no indicator for what bitrate or built-in BT codec you're streaming to your headphones or speakers. Indeed, some hardware defaults right down to SBC. Also, assorted hardware transmits at comparatively varying power levels. Google says "AAC has a higher bit depth than SBC but is lower in the other audio aspects. Regardless, SBC performs worse than AAC, thanks to its better compression algorithm. Apple devices can run this codec optimally, which is a significant step up. However, it has high latency, which is not ideal for gaming." and "The standard SBC codec offers up to 48kHz audio sampling rates in a 16-bit depth resolution. It offers bitrates up to 320kbps. Most of the time, the codec suffers from insufficient audio quality and higher latency." So maybe Apple is the best as it takes full advantage of SBCs algorithm?
Question…….will the 10+ support airplay2, if so, will it multi room with a wiim?
I never thought I would get into streaming, but over the years I have learned to appreciate the technology and am doing it more and more. That said, I don't see the need for a separate streaming component. In one of my systems, I use my LG V40 as the streaming device and use Bluetooth to connect to my DAC over LDAC. I get a full 96K doing that, so it sounds great, and I have the control head right in the palm of my hand. Can't do that with your little puck there. So no, Bluetooth is far from dead.
Randy let me ask you this, which stream supports apple iTunes lossless? Any, or is the best way for me, is connect my iPhone, or iPad to a DAC via USB and use those devices as a streamer.
You still have to pay for internet. No? I pay $106 for Spectrum: internet, voip phone, and 200 tv channels. I told them I only want internet. They replied so that'll be $120. You save when you bundle.
Nah, I’ll stick with Wiim. By the way, I hope the next version will be called the Awap. Then I could get a Wiim Awap.
Hi Randy.
Loving your videos lately, thank you for all the good information.
I'm about take a punt on the S10 plus, as it is on Amazon UK for £39.99 (approx $50)
Quick question, should i connect using an optical cable or via the RCA output? It will be going into a topping DX3 pro plus, powered by a Fosi V3. Thanks for any advice.
Does this work on AirPlay 1? If so then the Apple Music airplay can do real lossless ??
Airplay is lossless, but caps frequency at 48kHz. However, it does offer the best resolution available which is 24bit, so it's still considered hi def. I do not know if the s10 does Airplay.
So much of my favorite music isn't on Tidal and such platforms. Thus I must use my local flacs.
I am still rocking my 8 track player😂
No more Arylic products for me. The bp50 was a total disappointment! I love my Wiim mini! I can't wait for the release of the Wiim ultra!!
Wait, network streaming for the home isn't new... I was using it over a decade ago.
I know it costs more, but the Bluesound node sounds so much better than a Wiim, and better than a Wiim coupled with most dacs that cost a couple hundred dollars, like the Geshelli Lab J2 Akm4493. Wiim does have great app, great EQ, Bluesound node has tone controls that do not seem to work, but when disabled, sounds great. Wiim is awesome for price. But Bluesound just sounds better.
I disagree. I bout a WiiM pro plus and sold my Bluesound node.
Your opinion is valid.....for you. The Wiim with a good dac (to my ears) sounds way better than the node to me.
Subjectivity reigns.
Thanks Randy
If you need to use your phone to control the device, you might as well use your phone to begin with. Also, hi res audio isn’t that noticeable via streaming.
Honestly, without a dedicated screen to run the apps on a streamer, they’re kinda pointless in my opinion. Bc as I said, you already have a phone with literally every app and more than any streamer out there. Bought a WiiAmp and had to return it bc having to use your phone for any little change to the device, it was pointless. I bought a small dedicated screen and connected an Apple TV to it. Being able to also listen to live shows on RUclips that aren’t available in just audio, another plus.
Hi Res Audio is noticeable during streaming. Very much so when running airplay (which isn't really high res). And I didn't say high res I said lossless. I"m glad you're getting everything that you need through an Apple TV though. I have about 4 of them throughout the house. But if you're happy with airplay and or bluetooth then that's all that matters. It sounds like you found the solution which is right for you
Our devices always stream from the internet. I thought maybe a new wireless standard for headphones came out or something. The music has to get your devices somehow. Like Bluetooth or wires. This title is so clickbaity. Music doesn't stream to my phone from the server over Bluetooth. 🤣
I have an S10+. The old one, a lot smaller, MUCH better screen, and behold... it got Bluetooth as well. 😂
Seriously, who at Arylic thought the S10 and S10+ naming was a good idea?
Bluetooth? Never heard of it… 😊
Conspiracy to murder bluetooth
A question. I have a Pioneer receiver VSX-LX505. I play via AirPlay2 from my phone (which is CD quality I believe). Do I even need any dedicated streamer?
Bluetooth is still usefull when your friend visits and wants to play a song on his phone through my system.
but you could just search spotify or amazon etc for the song they want to play... DOWN with the bluetooth! imo
I have no friends.
If your friend’s phone is connected to your WiFi network, they can also stream via the WiiM on your system.
Bluetooth is dead? Good thing I have a dead phone with Bluetooth and NFC. My CGM would not work without those.
I'm confused. Yeah, HATE Bluetooth. What I _really_ want is something to losslessly stream (and without latency) via WiFi the audio from my PC; will-or-won't this thing do that? Clarifying, I can do room/speaker EQ and compression on my host system and pre-process the sound before sending it, so I don't need an endpoint device to do that stuff. I do need a software driver on my host system to create the appearance of that audio device. Can I just stream audio losslessly/latency-free via WiFi?
I think Arylic and Wiim are made by the same company .
Am I losing out by using my fire cube gen 2 as my streamer through the HDMI on my avr
Does the Arylic only use Airplay 1 though? Anything modern should be using Airplay 2
I didn't dig enough to find out which version it was using. I just tested it to make sure it worked
Airplay 1 is always cd quality. But slow.
Airplay 2 is sometimes aac 256kb limited. But fast.
Usually, if the information listing does not say AirPlay to it is AirPlay one. My main issue one is that it is not compatible. I’m not sure if you can mix and match AirPlay one and AirPlay two devices either. I mean, I know that you can cast to both with an iOS device, but Cannot play to both AirPlay 2 and AirPlay one at the same time.
I was hoping this could be an affordable alternative to the WIIM pro but lack of AirPlay 2 compatibility makes it a no go in my scenario. Every other device I cast to my house is AirPlay 2.
@@TheFrugalAudiophile Exactly. Dealbreaker. Insane not to use Airplay 2 in 2024. (came out in 2018)
I think i seen marantz m1 in this video,no review yet?😮
Streaming is usually compressed (I'm looking at you Spotify) - so unless you have a good wifi connection, and the source is lossless you will still get lossy. So...... not sure what your point is here. AirPlay is over wifi, so you can get lossless to your speakers if your source is lossless.
BT is still a viable option for mp3 players. LDAC sounds good! maybe not like streaming but once upon a time everyone loves listening to FM radio and BT sounds better than FM radio.
Ok. I was drawn to this episode because of the Blutooth (or an improvement there of). But all I got out of it was a comparison between 2 streaming products that I have no idea what they do. So, my line of thought; if I want to stream something, I use Roku. If I want to listen to music I’ve downloaded on my phone I just turn on the Bluetooth. So, what do these products do? And what do they have to do with Bluetooth?
I thought you were talking maybe about bluetooth earbuds for audio on the go. I just purchased new ones so I was like, wtf?