Some personal testimony about the reliability of decent TPA3255 "chip amps": I bought a pair of Aiyima A07s four(!) years ago and they still perform flawlessly after running them on 48VDC pretty nearly 24/7 for most of those years. The TPA3255 is a revolutionary device in terms of price/performance ratio for audio amplification and, in its latest incarnations -- like the Fosi V3 Mono -- it can deliver all the quiet, low-distortion power most home stereo systems will ever need.
I picked up an Aiyima T9 pro on your recommendation for £50 on eBay, upgraded the tubes and bought some speakers from a retro store near me that turned out to be Wharfdale Diamond mk1s, made in England in 1982. I've thrown in an old raspberry pi with ropieexl for Spotify streaming via DAC. For under £100 all in I have the best home audio I've had in years and I'm rediscovering music again, I can't get enough of it. These amps are pretty amazing, just having affordable but good home hifi again for the first time in 20+ years is wonderful.
A few months ago, after 3 years, I’ve sold my PS Audio Sprout 100 and bought me an older Rotel RA10. Waw, finally found the sound I love! (Found back the sound I remember from my youth, I’m 61.) And Andy, I love your specific approach of all things hifi! Thanks also for the humour.
All I can say is, thank you. You introduced me to aiyima a07. You then showed me how to change the op amps. In two years I have gone from, I hope it sounds OK, to one of the best systems I have ever heard. My music surrounds me to about 190 degrees, song dependant of course. It's depth puts the back of the orchestra 15 feet through the wall into my backyard. Height wasn't a thing, now the music flows freely around the room. Nothing I've ever owned gave me that before. I love this trip through hifi. So far, 500 bucks, lol.
I started with a Fosi V3 and a pair of Q Acoustics 3010is. Not even a year later I've upgraded to the Wharfedale Lintons. Expensive hobby, but I'm enjoying it.
I started with an Aiyima T8 and A08 Pro and Neumi BS5s a year and a half ago. All on the advice of cheapaudioman, by the way. Since then I've upgraded to: Schiit Gungnir Multibit Schiit Lokius Schiit Freya N Schiit Vidar 2 RSL CG5s RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII Nitsch Pietus Maximus Verum Audio Verum 1 ...and that's just the main system. As you said, it's expensive but enjoyable. The thing is, I've been really struggling with depression, and recently realized that music is crucial to my well-being. And since I'm listening to a whole lot more music these days, I'd say it's been money well spent.
@@ricochet243 I've heard the Lintons pair well with a livelier amp, so I've been looking at the Cambridge Audio CXA81, but an all-in-one like the EVO 75 is also really compelling because my cable management is atrocious.
Randy, thanks for entertaining us. You seem to be a good person who is just trying to figure out what brings you joy. And it has been fun witnessing your journey (that’s why I’ve watched so much)! Ironically, this channel has taught me an important hifi lesson, “I’m too poor to buy cheap hifi.” All the ‘cheap’ stuff I’ve bought (based on recommendations from this channel) has either been bad, gone to a thrift store, or ended up in the trash. You get what you pay for, hifi is no exception. Except for friendship, I’m never paying a dime for true friends.
Yup, cheap hifi is just the gateway..and thats the rub. I started with a phone and a bluetooth speaker like 3 years ago, now I'm listening to a $7k system in my temporary 1 bd work apartment.. its ridiculous.
Randy you are absolutely right on with this regarding cost of entry. I’m new to the audio hobby. No way was I going to drop 1k-2k as a beginner. These amps allowed me to get in and I’m upgrading as I’m able to. More people added to a hobby can only add stability and success to a hobby dominated by people getting up there in age. Whether elitist audiophiles want to dump on these or not I don’t care. More people in this, the better for everyone. And now I’m enjoying things in a way I wasn’t before.
Love your channel! I purchased the SMSL AO200 and DO200 MKII last year, and they are hooked up to Q Acoustic Concept 20 speakers that I purchased for $250, and the Jamo 10” sub. I can easily get clean sound at 100 decibels (6 feet away) using a Cayin CD player and it sounds clear and controlled. I usually listen between 70 and 84 decibels, but it will crank without any noticeable distortion. For my home theater, I am running a Yamaha Aventage A8A and Emotiva BasX 3 with Monitor Audio speakers, so I have a higher-end reference when it comes to power, speakers, and DAC.
These cheap amps are one of the best things that have happened in years for the audio community. Driving a pair of Magnepans with a single ZA3, and it sounds good, and does not even get warm. I hope the rest of the industry is listening.
Damn! Thank you for sharing that! I've been hesitating on Maggies for a long time because of their legendary hunger for power! You've just eased my mind a ton!! :)
@@over2weeks I would suggest a Class A/B amplifier for true 3D holographic sound. The Fosi is a bit 2 dimensional, but still sounds good. I dug out my old Emotiva XPA2, first generation and it sounds fantastic with the LRS+ speakers. Add the Rolls XS45 crossover and a pair of REL MKIII subs, audio nirvana.
@@michaelwright1602Yep, after hearing the fosi, I changed to my Audiolab 6000A a/b amp, (which cost well over a grand) and everything just opened out like crazy! Didn't think that it would be that much difference. 😅
First off Randy you are smart. Darko is too. You have influenced me to purchase a SMSL SU-1 and a Fosi BT 20 A Pro. Great value products. Had the Fosi running my 5 K Bryston loudspeakers to 95 db +. Sounded good enough that my wife said why did you spend big money on a Hegel. All the best Randy.
My ChiFi report; According to Spectroid graph, my 200w class D amp is driving Elac DBR62's down to 30 htz (playing pipe organ), while mids and highs sound, well, very good. 30 to 41 htz play equally loud. These notes are B (30.5 htz), B#, C, C#, D, D#, E (E is 41 htz, the low note in Narcissistic Cannibal, an open E bass string). Volume is 76 - 85 db (at 9' away) or lower usually. The Elacs did not sound this good with a lower powered A-B amp. 25 w per 8 ohm channel was not enough. But the Douk ST-01 Pro has no problem getting loud enough for my taste. Some furniture began buzzing, had to add some padding, but no problem. Now, about that sub... Thanks for the video.
As a died in the wool vintage hifi lover, never thought I would enjoy a Fosi audio amp, but I gave it a go with some decent bookshelf speakers and it’s good at most volumes, I don’t play at the margins so works for me.
Cheap class d amplifiers have changed my life contrary to what you say in that now I can justify having a stereo in every room and they are a pleasure listen to without breaking the bank. AND fact that you wearing a Triumph motorcycle shirt has just elevated your status. I love my Tiger 1050
Randy is right on 100% here. I'll add two things. First, if you're into 2 channels over home theater I think the sound on the Fosi and probably others absolutely destroys what they're selling at Best Buy for quite a bit more. To me, a $500 to $600 HT receiver from there has maybe $50 worth of parts and the rest goes to all the levels of distribution, advertising, shareholders, etc. I have a $750 Yamaha HT receiver and in 2-channel mode, my V3 sounds better. I think that means that someone can put more money into their turntable, DAC, etc. rather than pay for a poorly built big-name big box receiver. Secondly, there is a lot of gatekeeping in the audiophile world, and that spills into ChiFi. I have components from several higher-end manufacturers and I'm in those FB groups and they are an extremely insular community. They don't even like high-end outsiders like Devon Turnbull even if his stuff sounds utterly amazing. John Devore did a whole video on that aspect of audiophilia. There are guys, and yes it's always guys, who won't consider any class D amp no matter the maker. Even the ones that cost 5 figures because their mind will only lump them with disposable Pyle products. Thanks again Randy for running the best hi-fi channel on RUclips.
Another great video! Thank you very much! You can also get good AB amplifiers for little money. I'm thinking of Rega io, for example. 4 months old second hand for 340€. It's based on the circuit from John Linsley Hood 1969 (Class A sound), made entirely in Great Britain with the best components, 2 x 30 watts, more than sufficient for 8 Ohm speakers. I sold my Accuphase E-211 for it and don't miss a thing. I also replaced the fine-wire fuse with an audiophile one, which was a big improvement. Greetings from Bavaria (Aschaffenburg)😁
I'd honestly argue it's good for everyone. With the existence of decent cheap stuff, other manufacturers are forced to step up their game, offer better features, or lower prices to compete
Measurements say the well designed and well built "affordable" amps can compete with anything at any price in terms of clean and accurate sound. I'm pretty happy with my $300 amp even next to my $3000 A/B amp. I am not sure I can tell them apart at normal volumes. At higher volumes the 400 watt per channel $3000 amp wins vs the 200 watt affordable amp.
It's like asking an ignorant person the difference in taste between a Château Pétrus and a Chardonnay. Since his palate isn't trained, he might prefer the $14 wine! It's the same with hi-fi: we don't all perceive the same things. An audiogram might surprise you ! 😉
I really enjoy this channel, even though I continue to play my 1974 vintage Sansui integrated amplifier and 1980s SONY, TEAC, Tascam, Yamaha, Kenwood, and other old school Hi Fi equipment which easily drives my speakers and headphones to deafening levels and sound great doing it. I ENJOY THIS CHANNEL because it is about listening to music on affordable modern equipment and that makes sense to me. So, bravo, cheap audio guy for encouraging others to enjoy music on affordable gear. Drive on soldier. TNT
I used to be into hifi years ago. My original system consisted of a Dynaco SCA-80 (kit) along with a Dynaco FM3(?) (kit), an AR-XA turntable and a pair of KLH model 23 speakers. I enjoyed that a lot but over the years I left the hobby behind. Recently I wanted to get just a basic system (my current hobby is photography) that sounded good at least to me. So I got a Fosi BT20A Pro, a Schiit Modi DAC and a pair of Dayton Audio MK442T speakers. I couldn't be happier and with a streaming service I really enjoy finding music I would never have been exposed to before.
I own Wilson Audio Sabrina X speakers and i had a friend bring over 2 Fosi Audio ZA3s set up in mono mode. They drew more bass from my speakers at the expense of some smoothness. But i wouldn't say these amps were embarrassed by my Class AB amp costing 10x the price of both Fosis.
Love the t-shirt. I have a 68 Triumph TR25W parked between my JBL L7's powered by a White Oak Audio Phase Linear 700. The kids can sit on the bike while I play motorcycle sounds.
My amp broke, so while saving for a new amp, i bought tha za3 and a line level booster to still be able to use my Acoustic Research AR-3A. What a surprise. I did not expected this sound quality. Better? No, but for me it is not worthed to buy an expensive a/b amp. First of all I did not need the line level booster at all. For me a single amp is playing loud enough. Also I was able to measure bass till 32hz ( used a spectrum metre to see what is going on) so you can understand im very satisfied. I ordered a second za3 amp and 2 opamps. Big smile here.....
Randy this is one of the best defined podcast you have had. You covered all aspects of the argument well. The only point you might have missed was Marantz, Mcintosh, Cambridge etc started out at on time also. They to have had to evolve over time and in the process made changes. At the core of nature is change otherwise nothing evolves.
Thanks to CheapAudioMan, I’ve purchased three Aiyima T-9’s for three separate systems. I am so happy with these little amps. I use a T-9 to drive my 2.1 video system with B&W 683 tower speakers and LOVE the theater-like sound. And, my spouse loves the sound, too. Bonus points.
Something almost no one mentions when it comes to class D is efficiency. The cost of electricity isn't going down anywhere on the planet. The most efficient class A/AB amps are something like 30% give or take. That means 70% of the electricity they use is converted into nothing but heat. Class D amps are around 90% efficient give or take. That means only 10% of the electricity they use is converted into heat. I have an Audiophonics LPA-S500NC. 2 x 500 watts. I think it draws a half a watt when it's sitting idle. A class A/AB rated at 500 watts draws 500 watts from the moment it is turned on till the moment it is turned off. I leave it on 24/7 and my electric bill has gone up about $1.80 a month. Even after long periods of loud listening driving KEF ls50's it never gets more then warm to the touch. I live in Arizona so the last thing I need is a space heater running in the summer months, which is exactly what a 500 watt class A/AB is. Most people just getting into the audio scene don't have an extra $100 a month to run class A/AB amps plus another $40 a month to run their ac to cool down their living space. Class B is a win win for the vast majority of people on the planet, especially in other countries where electricity can be a problem.
Good morning Randy☕️☕️☕️, at 62yrs I’ve dug out / dusted off my old Pioneer VSX 5400 system. After a 25+ year absence wanting to jump back in ,not knowing whats out there in the universe of HiFi and should I go with a NOS (?) TurnTable and Speakers or something new. I haven’t made those decisions yet as I’m having as much fun in the discovery faze of what’s out there and the “ who’s , who in this zoo”. I’ve binged watched most of your vids which has sent me down many rabbit holes. I will say that with all this information it’s becoming more and more difficult to Mack a decision, so it might just come down to the tried and true “ rock-paper-scissors” method of choice, either way I win. Thanks for the knowledge and entertainment packaged together. Love it and your channel. Blessing to you my YT friend. BTW, my wife of 37 years says you’ve got a sexy voice, sounding like Magnum PI. may want to though in a few “ Higgens” easter eggs for those of us who remember the good ol days.
Certainly a starting point for any musicophile. I am not sure if they replace AB or A class amps, but they can certainly coexist. Thank you for your perspectives, time, and efforts to review and compare this very contentious audio space. Controversy fuels progress and improvement. Take care, brother, and have a great weekend.
The Class D sound is 2 dimensional, with extreme detail. Class A/B is 3 dimensional and holographic, but not quite as detailed. And then we have the costs, you will pay for a nice Class A/B amp with the 3D, instrument separation, dynamics, etc. Class D is the "gateway drug".
Nice shirt! Not exactly audio related but I recently got a brand new Triumph Street Triple 765 RS and I love everything about it. If this channel was about motorcycles I bet Triumph would come up frequently since they make beautiful premium bikes for very reasonable prices.
I had a speed triple 1050 for a few years. brilliant bike. I don't ride anymore but I'd love to again. was like a nuclear green. was the best bike. dual round headlights. very very cool... I'm missing it now
Fosi's willingness to engage with the community and implement feedback elevates them to well above average. These amps are great for many, meh for others, and worthless to others. It's OK to be in any of these camps. For me the V3 mono is perfect for the mains on my 2.1 home theater.
i started with Topping MX3 bluetooth amp, worked great for music/TV...then i gave it to a friend. They love it. I then upgraded to Emotiva integrated pre amp/amp :)
I use the upgraded mx3s at desktop. It's quiet (no hissing in the treble), runs cool, is small and has no problems with either the speakers or headphones. And no channel imbalance unlike some amps.
Great video!!! I do have a bunch of aiyima gear as well as SMSL. I’m running the ao7 pro max in mono, and they are good for what they are. However, they will not be replacing my Yamaha a-s2200. Part of this hobby for me is looks. I need my gear to look good as well. lol. But these class d amps are great!! My Willsenton R8 is one of the best sounding amps with my speakers that I have ever heard. It also looks and feels great. Another thing I do. When I spend a decent amount for a ChiFi product from Amazon, I add the protection plans. They are totally worth it and have saved me a couple of times.
im by no means an enthusiast but im using a fosi V1.0b and a pair of moukey bookshelf speakers that you seemed to like about a year ago and i love it. its amazing the sound you can get for $140 with this combo.
Thanks Randy! As always, great stuff. I am currently using 3 modded (Sparkos OP amps) ZA3's to power L/R/C Klipsch RP600's, and Emotiva BasX amps powering DefTech ProMonitors 1000's for surrounds. I also have an Outlaw 2220 monoblock that isn't plugged in. I know what you're thinking. "How could you have an idle A/B monoblock sitting doing nothing when you have a crappy class D amp powering your CC?" Well, I'll tell you why. It sounds better to me. Period. It may not sound better to you, but it does to me. Will it last as long as an Outlaw? We'll see. But for now, the ZA3's are singing quite nicely.
Man...am I CHEAP. I spent a whopping US$140 on a fully revised...mint...Hitachi SR-503L receiver, from 1977/8. Paired with a vintage $120 Marantz EQ20 (again mint). The DAC...a FiiO BTA30 Pro ($120). Sound quality/performance...I do not know what a professional assessment would yield...except that I think the combo sounds WONDERFUL! [All the vintage stuff from LOCAL auctions] Insofar as the FiiO BTA30 Pro...it covers BT 5.2 receiving/transmitting as well as serving the DAC role for the above mentioned vintage stack. Perfect for headphones cabled to the SR-503L. Perfect for office conference calls with a dedicated lapel microphone + BT5.2 KZ AZ09 Pro's w/ ARTTI T10 planar IEM's (AptX HD). Perfect for wireless/near lossless (LDAC) listening via MUSE HiFi M4 (or FiiO BTR5) w/ cabled IEM's. A second BTA30 Pro is perfect for streaming from my phone to the BTA30 Pro (in RX mode) to a mint/revised Hitachi SR-903 ($160) paired with Dali speakers (new, $210) in the family room. The combination of ChiFi and vintage audio (discreet electronics)...bliss on a budget. Now, if I only had a tube amp! Wait...I think my Pioneer SX-82E or the LX-300T...both mint...might fit the bill! Again, local auctions. The former, under $135 and the later, under $100. Incredible buys, I know.
Vandersteen speakers are made in California, i have an original setof Model II's that are 35+ years old and are still some of the best sounding speakers I have heard. I am in need of a new amp, may try one of these Class D amps.
Good analysis. I agree that it's a 'tide that floats all boats'. In the worst case, the 'traditional class A/B' manufacturers' in the mid-market will be forced to compete on price. As always, the high-end consumer will continue pay for look, feel, exclusivity and (for a few aurally gifted people) for sound quality. But Randy, what about companies like BlueSound (budget), NAD (mif-fi) and PS Audio (top-end) ? They have all embraced Class-D in some form of hybridization. And, in my experience, these amplifiers are clean, powerful and are remarkably uncolored and resolving. We are entering another contentious period of religiosity. Remember - moving-coil vs moving magnet || transistor vs tubes || vinyl vs CD || MQA vs FLAC ... You have a life time career in opinion-broking to look forward to. Thanks for an entertaining channel. Keep 'em coming. Oh, btw - just saw another comment below regarding heat. I can run my Powernode N330 in a cabinet - the domestic harmony that brings is priceless!
Fosi Audio's customer service is really good, bought a TB10D and one channel was not performing as expected, emailed them with a video comparing the left and right channels and they mailed a brand new unit to me! wow!
I think that listening to the sound of your cinema system, in your car, on your phone, in addition to MP3 files, has completely calmed your ears. I've bought several of these amps, and they're very decent for their price, but they can't compete with good Mosfet, Class A amps, and even less with tubes. Go to concerts and listen to live musicians, and you'll see that what comes out of these devices is far from reality, and that after a long listening session, they are often tiring. Ears can be trained, and the worry is that the more they are trained, the more demanding they become, so if your budget is limited, stick with these gizmos. 😉
In the sixties Germany invented a special set of rules ( Deutsche Industrie Norm (DIN) ) for making HiFi devices comparable. It had been a set of rules the manufacturers had to run their tests against. It was the DIN 45 500. This is long outdated but it was a good idea back then to make stereo components comparable.
I bought a very cheap amp plus power supply under $40, which even has a subwoofer output from aliexpress. I was really surprised how good it was. I was using a pair of old Mission bookshelf speakers as main and a pair of entry level good old Tannoy bookshelf speakers as twin sub for listening. The output rating of the 2.1 amp was only 50wx2 sub 100w but for me it was enough to fill my 3m x 4m room and more.
I think you nailed it! "If it's bringing more new people to the hobby......That is a good thing" Personally I feel each audio enthusiast, has to start at some place. I've been in this hobby for almost 40 years, and I welcome the advancement of this hobby allowing access to quality new gear, that does not cost an arm and a leg.
Hardware control. I've been looking for a semi-full featured preamp, . I like knobs. I like visual feedback (even digi meters). I like switching sources. I like a mono button. Now, I use a mixer. 3 band eq. Simultaneous multiple sources. Great s/n (96k box). You can change the power amps (or config) cheaply. Buy better speakers. Power supplies matter. (i live in a small space)... Great episode!
I want to buy these but they are "incomplete" for me. I don't want large power bricks, dangling cables, to get proper power. I would like 2 of these as monoblocs, one large toroidal power supply powering them, with high pass filters on mains and subwoofer out.
Sounds like you might like the SMSL A300 which has a BTL mono function which gives 400 watts per amp (need 2) and they have the power supply inside the amp. In addition, by most reports they sound great and have a sub out and other functions......
Regarding GREAT SOUNDING amps, ALSO DO CONSIDER finding a GOOD CONDITION/SERVICED late '80s/'90s Class A amps like NAD, Pioneer, Sony, Technics (like my '89 SU-600 'New Class A') etc etc. From £80 (with a coupla exterior scuffs etc), all the way to £200 for a pristine well looked after example. The saying goes "They don't make them like they used to" is very true about these era amps, ESPECIALLY if you match them to good speakers, you WILL be surprised at actually how good these amps of the day were and STILL ARE... 👌 Example... SU-600 specs:- Power output - 30 Watts per channel into 8 Ohm (stereo) Frequency response - 5Hz to 70Khz Total Harmonic Distortion - 0.07% Speaker impedance 4 Ohm to 16 Ohm (amongst others) If you want 'Mo powaaarrr' then yeah, there a classic amps that put out 50, 80, 100+ Watts per channel, and all can be found in great condition for less than £300... Just got to look for them... 😏 😎🇬🇧
I had an 8 watt tube amp that was very good. Sold it to a friend. When China puts their minds to it, they excel. They make some nice acoustic guitars as well at nice price points. This will get the attention of some companies that need to get up to speed. They make excellent phono preamps as well...
I remember when Radio Shack's "Realistic" brand used to overrate their amplifiers and speakers RMS values. I had their "Opitmus" speakers. I loved them. They sounded awsome but they were also power overrated. As long as you don't overdrive your amps or speakers, most sound good. If you want louder, spend more but louder isn't always better. It's more better. 😊
Competition is good for everybody, and brand loyalty is good for nobody except that brand. More competition simply means more reasons for a well-established brand to justify it sticking around so long by making better products. If an older brand can't make as good or better products for at least a comparable price, then they have no reason to still be in business until they can fix that. We should not be complaining about good audio getting cheaper. We should be complaining about big brands relying on their name to justify overcharging.
I have some 20 years old 20 dollar class T (texas instruments class D) these things are 8 watts/ channel and run on 12 volts DC. they sound great! i have so much stuff sitting around that does not get used. my main stereo is a pair of 40 year old cerwin vega speakers and a pioneer sx-34b with a techniques sld2 turn table. stuff that I have reconditioned and work great but don't get used, from acrosound ultra linear ii, leak stereo 20 etc etc. with good sensitive speakers in a normal room at reasonable levels the solid state class T amps are in service all the time.
I just picked up a Douk Audio ST-01 Pro 200w ($119) and I was very surprised how much of a difference it made & was noticeable right away. Now I was only hooking it up to my Brennan B2 CD player / ripper which is being played in a smaller room, so I was hoping to save some money & get better sound out of the Brennan which has its own built-in amp (not very strong) so a quick optical line hookup with my Sony bookshelves speakers & Bam the sound jumped - so know what you are buying & what the use will be & save some $$
When it comes to products in the marketplace, competition definitely breeds excellence. I have a Lepai Chi-Fi Class D amp that sounds as good as the NAD D2030 for rock and classical and several products from Fossi that all do a great job. You're totally right--the consumer wins, and anyone who's approaching audio as a hobbyist/enthusiast is going to buy gear, try gear, and make their own distinctions about what sounds good for their music, their volume, their listening environments, and their tastes. Vive les differences!
I belive the sound will sound the same... its like when you drink expensive wine... you feel good because you know its expensive 👌Everything is just in your your mind 👌
You are so right, Randy! 3 years ago, I started with Dayton Audio B652 air speakers plus a Dayton 10" powered subwoofer along with a cheap Lepai chip amp and Schiit Modi 3 DAC. Cost: About $425 Today, I am using Martin Logan 15i speakers with 2 SVS SB-1000pro powered subwoofers and a Parasound NewClassic 275V2 amplifier with an SMSL 9pro DAC w/preamp outputs. Cost: About $2800 Both systems are fine, but it definitely gets better as you climb up! Thanks for this review!
@scottbennett3119 there's no need for a dac, your music source or device already decodes it , all a dac does is color the sound typically boosting the upper midrange, which is where most of our perception is, basically making it sound like a boombox, just do it! It only takes about 5 minutes to disconnect it
@scottbennett3119 I KNOW FOR A FACT that you DON'T need a dac. Just try it, . . . But . . . You won't, but you'll spend more and more $$$ on cables and this and that, & wast hours and hours messing around, but won't take 5 minutes to see what I'm trying to tell you
Its not luck. They started strong, asked for feedback, listened to complaints and suggestions, and quickly implemented changes. I got in with an $18 50WPC the size of a deck of cards, just a top and bottom plate (no case), and running on the TPA3118 surrounded by surface mount components. Does my old Pioneer sound better?yeah. Was thw BT20A pro an upgrade? Yeah for sure. But it got me through when one of my amps blew up, and its currently powering a sub and two sony 3 ways out in the shop, and no, it doesnt sound bad. It gets loud and it has bluetooth. I'll save my bucks for the good spot in the house..but i love these things. I hate that. Ok ok.. lets have an unacheduled factory tour
Love the content man! I can't agree with you more. I started out with a cheaper system and now I have two mid-priced systems. You have to start somewhere and throwing 4k out the window (or more) just isn't what most people can do!
@@ricochet243 more complicated.. not just size of your hands.. but are you gardening, driving, skiing, golfing, or OJ’ing. Do you want something cheep or do you want a premium feel. Do you want it for a single use or to last a decade. Gloves and amps are very complex purchasing decisions.
The next move by Fosi Audio is a Hypex Class D which will disrupt the market Should be out this year Fosi will most likely do a decent job on the first one They will refine it and then legit 2 X 250 or 2 X 500 for less $$$ and higher quality will follow Completely agree with you
I wonder what they'll have to charge if they're buying in amp modules from Hypex. I saw them mention the plan of internalising the PSU into a larger case and having flexible amp options. I think they suggested up to 6 channels per case. That sounds like what other Hypex based designs are doing. I'd love to know how far down the development pipe that plan is.
Buckeye and others are doing 2,4,6,8 But there are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and more The modularity is there for whatever Let’s see what Fosi Audio does and especially in the implementation, both input and output and amplifier versus integrated. The four proposed case designs I saw looked to be 2 channel.
BRAVO ZULU RANDY!!! We all started our audiophile journey gear that didn't sound Amazing. But it sounded Better than what were Used To hearing!!! That is the key! The magic elixir that got me started down the path. ChiFi gear is filling the void ignored by the audio companies who themselves will benefit later on down the road. It's a Wonderful time to be an audiophile!
Who here started with Tripath TA2020 amplifier chip? I did when my late 70's Onkyo died and the repair bill was going to be more than a new one. $20 later I had sound coming out of my speakers
I bought a wiim amp after seeing it on one of Randy's videos. I really like it. Very adjustable. If I get feed up with the troubles of vintage gear, I could see just using the wiim.
IMO, not the same as a dedicated headphone amp but a MG10XU Yamaha mixer and my AKG K240 mark II is more then enough for me. The eq's are simple yet fun for me to play around with.
@Randy you big hunk of Cheap Audio man - they are what they are! and your picks (Fosi Audio V3 with the orange knob, gotta have that copper looking knob, to drive a pair of Tannoy Stratfords on my TV, themselves upgraded with better resistor and Clarity polycaps) have been a revelation to me. More deep bass than the very good class A/B it replaced. Though not quite as natural but it was 99 QUID! How can I complain? I can't. Keep it up.
I always assumed that the best objective measure would be a means to compare the reference audio (music being listened to) from the source versus the sound recorded, in the room, at playback for any given system. As the delta between the two would decrease, the system would be "better" and conversely, as the delta increased, the system would be "worse". The reference audio file would be from the digital master recording, using no equalization, to compare to the recording of the same file in the room through any given audio system. I know people do this with a "tone sweep" file to produce the same results, but people are reluctant to believe a tone sweep comparison is comparable to a music recording, as if there is some magic that happens in a music recording vs. a tone-sweep audio signal. That way, people can compare their listening experience to an "ideal model" of the music and realize their own preferences/biases/etc. regarding their system.
For me Class D amps fit the bill (pun intended) In addition to the great sound, the footprint is just right. When friends come over they have no idea where the sound is coming from until I show them that it’s hiding in a bookshelf. Thanks for your passion, Randy!
My class D amps use 2 Purifi boards made in Europe (Italy maybe?). 240 wpc @ 8 ohms. I had a Rotel AB. I could detect a more neutral sound, ever so slight. The amp is from Audiophonics in Europe, their own implementation. I am planning an A/B test to see if I am missing something.
I think it's cool that they are constantly improving the fossi. Even though I don't like that they are doing a Kickstarter. I just broke down and bought a wiim mini for my smsl su1 dac . I have really nice speakers that I designed and built that a put a lot of money into and I have been powering it with a Dayton hta 200 tube hybrid. My reference speakers have 10 woofers and the bass punch is awesome and the clarity and dynamics are amazing. A lot of it has to do with my speakers but I couldn't believe the difference I got from the smsl su1 and just the wiim mini!!!
First 100 dollar speakers sounding like 250k Focals, now these cheap amps sounding like amps 10 times their price. We get it, you are trying to stick to your name but let us all be reasonable. A good (read: well engineered) power amp will sound all the same under distortion levels when volume matched. No 2 ways about that. So these amps, presumably well engineered, will sound the same as any well engineered power amp regardless price, until it runs out of juice, or current, if you want to exact. These cheap amps are usually load dependent too, so depending on what speaker you hook it up to, it might sound neutral, bright or even dull. Thats the power side of things, the pre section is a totally different matter as it is the section that usually designers go to 'voice' their amps, if they wanted to in the first place. But lets keep that for another rainy day.
While a rising tide floats all boats things get interesting when the tide reverses. Then large, slow, heavy boats which go deep under the waterline and if it a fast reversing tide they get stuck on the seabed…
I have 3 different amps that I switch between, a Rotel A11 Trtibute, an older Rotel Pre/power set up and an SMSL A300. They all do things well and differently. Funny thing is, the Rotels would traditionally be more "audiophile" products, but I find myself more often than not listening to the SMSL class D. The A11 Tribute certainly has a more revealing sound with better sound stage etc, but I find it lacks some "oomph", even with the bass boosted, which I find fatiguing after a while. The older Rotel amps definitely have that "oomph", but lack a little in detail, which could be due to their age (early 90's). To me the SMSL just has a more enjoyable range and is less fatiguing. It does lack in some areas, but overall I find it a more enjoyable listen - perhaps because it's less clinical (?). I am sure that with more of a budget and some time to audition, I could find a better amp that fulfils all of my criteria better, but for the price, the SMSL has been great so far.
I bought a ZA3 for my desktop setup. Added the Sparkos op amps. I Also have a Cinema 60 for my home theater system that I also use for 2 channel listening right now. So, I hooked the ZA3 up to my fronts using the 60s preamp out as a experiment ... you know as we tend to do . I like the sound of the Cinema 60, but really enjoy the ZA3 on the Elac fronts better. I have a 2nd ZA3 on the way to mono block the fronts and will get and I will get back around to a new amp for my desktop after that. I will say the Sparkos made a WORLD of difference for my ears. Thanks Randy and keep up the great content!
Randy, I have the SMSL A300 amp fed by the Wiim Pro Plus, hooked to Sony SSCS5 speakers and an entry level Polk sub. It sounds fantastic in my medium sized living room. I guess you could say that I have drunk the CheapAudioMan Kool-aid!
Good perspective. I enjoy how you kept this conversation balanced with good and relevant comparisons. My 2 cents: .. The Better Class D ... ( imo ) is the incoming Gan-Fet stuff.. and there are a bunch of USA brands doing some great stuff in Class D .. Orchard Audio Buckeye Audio PS Audio has the M700 Mono .. and .. AGD Productions Inc. (probably a lot more in the USA that are going well in the Class D space ) Pricey? ... Yes - They are .. but .. they are doing it for the 85-90db crowds. It's a next level ..but can provide SO much better sound across the board.
Thank you for another great video Randy! Preach brother, I am the middle age person you describe. Your video on the reisong a10 got me started again using the link in your video to buy it and i love it daily and tube roll... and yes, now I am down the rabbit hole, went to Axpona and saw your presentation etc. And yes, I want more traditional high end stuff now dammit. 😂 Ps. Minor edit at 5:51 it shows the cambridge but I believe it should show the yamaha. Anyway, thanks for what u do! Ps2.. wharfedale 12.2 and paris a10 classic are on the dream board now.
Great video. Thanks. You’ve gotten me back in the hobby. The class d amps don’t do it for me. Except one…RSL makes it. What I have learned - I like class a. It seems to give me an emotional experience. A/B is good, only because its affordable. Chasing class a gets effin expensive. ✌️
Fosi customer service is top notch. A little unfortunate with the time difference resulting in emails one at a time, one a day unless you stay up late, but they were awesome with my ZA3 having an issue.
most of the high-end audio equipment have gone insanely and unrealistically high in the last years. we've been getting legally ripped off and royally screwed by these Fancy big names.. this mentality: EXPENSIVE = BETTER & CHEAP= BAD is fast changing and so as the World as well as the Technology. less expensive does not mean bad product any more. i watched a bunch of QUALIO-IQ speakers videos using FOSI amps against much expensive gears. they sound awesome. that proves your point Randy. and as you said "stop crying" 😁. they're here to stay, and are getting better". THANK YOU . Great episode.
Excellent "discussion" Randy - you make a number of excellent points and better yet, it is the clarifications and important distinctions, that make it very useful. Almost nothing in this world is black or white/right or wrong/good or bad - and almost everything is on a complex (3D?) spectrum. Everything has compromises - and nothing is perfect.
I am currently running 2 Aiyima A07 Max's in mono driving a set of Delcoid LM-1 satellites and a passive 12"sub. I was surprised that they drive the sub as well as they do. The amps are a bit treble forward, especially compared to my other amps...a GAS Ampzilla and QSC GX 5. They are rated at 200wpc into 8 ohms and 500wpc into 8 ohms respectively. The Aiyima's sound good, but they lack the fullness of either of the big amps. Even so, I'm still going to use them for the time being as my space is at a premium. I'm running these as a desktop system. I have a big desk but my sub is under my desk right now. It works better than Ex-Lax if I crank it up.
Yes, we win. Curious why you're not talking about the Hypex or Purify class D's though. Sure relatively speaking more expensive that these based on TI amp chips ... But when you consider upgrading the power brick ... the difference drops. I agree with what you're saying. But going the route of a Buckey or Orchard Amp... more money, but still relative to their counterparts... 'cheap'. This leads to a couple of questions... 1) If you're going to spend your money ... within a budget... where do you put the bulk of it? Speakers, Amps, pre-amp, DAC or something else? 2) If you're not going to do a side by side comparison between an 'audiophile' quality gear, or something for us regular folk... will you miss or even notice the difference? Personally, I'd pass on the chi-fi amps and go w a purify kit.
When I bought my first pair of Hifiman headphones which is the Sundara (2020) back in 2021 they were defective and one of the drivers didn't work at all so I had to get them replaced... My replacement hasn't had any problems at all... I know what he was talking about when he was mentioning Hifiman
The problem for me is the single input for most of these good class D units. Integrated amps can switch between multiple inputs. On the other side, a tv is now a good digital input switch, but not necessarily a good daq. So, one ends up buying a small zoo of equipment and spends around $300 minimum. Still a good value, but not as much as it initially sounds (pun intended). Then one is tempted to upgrade often, one unit at a time, increasing the cost. At least there is good fun setting it up.
I use a Topping PA5 II plus and it drives my 2 different speakers to insane levels no problem If I had tons more money to spend I'd get the Topping B200 and run them with a decent pre-amp, but if you run the calculations it's not going to play things at much higher levels.
Just got a pair of Q Acoustics 3010i for my PC desk, plan on getting the V3 or ZA3 to power them. Them being so small that they can fit easily on a small desk like mine (120cm*60cm) is a huge plus.
I have a V3 running a pair of Q-Acoustics 3020s in my 2.1 home cinema setup. With a DAC that has a remote control and a Martin Logan Subwoofer that has speaker level inputs… it sounds far superior to both a Peachtree Decco and a Marantz NR1200 that I’ve used. Clear and resolving, in a smallish room that I don’t need to crank it up. I got the V3 before the ZA3 was available, on a Black Friday sale. It’s such a nice and small size and sips mains power, especially in comparison to the Peachtree and its 25 watt A/B power output. Very happy with this setup… I think you would be too!
@@rickbrookes9491 Which DAC do you use? I plan to hook the V3 (once I get it) directly to my PC. As for the subwoofer, I do plan on getting the 3060s sometime in the future.
@@novakk86 have you looked at the smsl ao300/a300? Based on the same tpa3255 chip, but has multiple inputs and I believe a subwoofer pre-outs, and built in DAC. I have not seen testing as far as it's objective performance compared to a za3 or v3, but I'd be surprised if it was much different.
@@Artcore103 Tnx, I'm gonna take a look. I don't really plan on using this pair for anything other than the PC. DAC, internal power supply, and the sub out do look nice.
Sound quality is all about perception. If you believe that what you hear is directly related to dollars spent or where an amplifier is made, then you will "hear" differences. I've met people who have read a particularly flowery review, and then immediately believe that they hear the "warmth" or "speed" described in the written words. Once you've gotten past the purpose of an amplifier - which is to simply amplify the signal as it was recorded, without changing it - it all comes down to perception and belief. I'm seeing this with people who can't believe that something like the WiiM amp is as good as it truly is.
I think that you can definitely get better sound, bass control, etc. with better amps with better power supplies. But you may not be able to tell that much difference depending on the rest of your gear, the quality of the recordings you listen to, or the type of music you listen to. If you drive low sensitivity, low impedance, resolving speakers at high volumes you probably want to go elsewhere. The real message is that for low end and mid fi equipment, the quality you can get is so much better than “ in the good old days”.
Help!! I'm so confused guys. I've been watching a lot of your videos, and I really wanna start to improve my sound quality at home, but, hell... with one of these class D Amps, do I still need a DAC???? Will improve the sound quality with another DAC, or the integrated DAC of the fosi audio is enough??
My living room is only slightly bigger than a couple of phone booths So my Aiyima amps are enough to scare the neighbors.
Some personal testimony about the reliability of decent TPA3255 "chip amps": I bought a pair of Aiyima A07s four(!) years ago and they still perform flawlessly after running them on 48VDC pretty nearly 24/7 for most of those years. The TPA3255 is a revolutionary device in terms of price/performance ratio for audio amplification and, in its latest incarnations -- like the Fosi V3 Mono -- it can deliver all the quiet, low-distortion power most home stereo systems will ever need.
I picked up an Aiyima T9 pro on your recommendation for £50 on eBay, upgraded the tubes and bought some speakers from a retro store near me that turned out to be Wharfdale Diamond mk1s, made in England in 1982. I've thrown in an old raspberry pi with ropieexl for Spotify streaming via DAC. For under £100 all in I have the best home audio I've had in years and I'm rediscovering music again, I can't get enough of it.
These amps are pretty amazing, just having affordable but good home hifi again for the first time in 20+ years is wonderful.
A few months ago, after 3 years, I’ve sold my PS Audio Sprout 100 and bought me an older Rotel RA10. Waw, finally found the sound I love! (Found back the sound I remember from my youth, I’m 61.) And Andy, I love your specific approach of all things hifi! Thanks also for the humour.
All I can say is, thank you. You introduced me to aiyima a07. You then showed me how to change the op amps. In two years I have gone from, I hope it sounds OK, to one of the best systems I have ever heard. My music surrounds me to about 190 degrees, song dependant of course. It's depth puts the back of the orchestra 15 feet through the wall into my backyard. Height wasn't a thing, now the music flows freely around the room. Nothing I've ever owned gave me that before. I love this trip through hifi. So far, 500 bucks, lol.
I started with a Fosi V3 and a pair of Q Acoustics 3010is. Not even a year later I've upgraded to the Wharfedale Lintons. Expensive hobby, but I'm enjoying it.
What have you got your eye on next?
I started with an Aiyima T8 and A08 Pro and Neumi BS5s a year and a half ago. All on the advice of cheapaudioman, by the way.
Since then I've upgraded to:
Schiit Gungnir Multibit
Schiit Lokius
Schiit Freya N
Schiit Vidar 2
RSL CG5s
RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII
Nitsch Pietus Maximus
Verum Audio Verum 1
...and that's just the main system. As you said, it's expensive but enjoyable.
The thing is, I've been really struggling with depression, and recently realized that music is crucial to my well-being. And since I'm listening to a whole lot more music these days, I'd say it's been money well spent.
@@zounds13 Looking great!! 👍 Happy listening! 🙂🎶🎶
@@ricochet243 I've heard the Lintons pair well with a livelier amp, so I've been looking at the Cambridge Audio CXA81, but an all-in-one like the EVO 75 is also really compelling because my cable management is atrocious.
It's a hobby of buying gear...
Randy, thanks for entertaining us. You seem to be a good person who is just trying to figure out what brings you joy. And it has been fun witnessing your journey (that’s why I’ve watched so much)!
Ironically, this channel has taught me an important hifi lesson, “I’m too poor to buy cheap hifi.” All the ‘cheap’ stuff I’ve bought (based on recommendations from this channel) has either been bad, gone to a thrift store, or ended up in the trash.
You get what you pay for, hifi is no exception. Except for friendship, I’m never paying a dime for true friends.
Yup, cheap hifi is just the gateway..and thats the rub. I started with a phone and a bluetooth speaker like 3 years ago, now I'm listening to a $7k system in my temporary 1 bd work apartment.. its ridiculous.
Not sure it is HiFi.... but anyway 😅😅🚀🚀💪💪
But remember: your set is as good as your ears are.
Randy you are absolutely right on with this regarding cost of entry. I’m new to the audio hobby. No way was I going to drop 1k-2k as a beginner. These amps allowed me to get in and I’m upgrading as I’m able to. More people added to a hobby can only add stability and success to a hobby dominated by people getting up there in age. Whether elitist audiophiles want to dump on these or not I don’t care. More people in this, the better for everyone. And now I’m enjoying things in a way I wasn’t before.
Love your channel! I purchased the SMSL AO200 and DO200 MKII last year, and they are hooked up to Q Acoustic Concept 20 speakers that I purchased for $250, and the Jamo 10” sub. I can easily get clean sound at 100 decibels (6 feet away) using a Cayin CD player and it sounds clear and controlled. I usually listen between 70 and 84 decibels, but it will crank without any noticeable distortion. For my home theater, I am running a Yamaha Aventage A8A and Emotiva BasX 3 with Monitor Audio speakers, so I have a higher-end reference when it comes to power, speakers, and DAC.
These cheap amps are one of the best things that have happened in years for the audio community. Driving a pair of Magnepans with a single ZA3, and it sounds good, and does not even get warm. I hope the rest of the industry is listening.
Damn! Thank you for sharing that! I've been hesitating on Maggies for a long time because of their legendary hunger for power! You've just eased my mind a ton!! :)
@@over2weeks I would suggest a Class A/B amplifier for true 3D holographic sound. The Fosi is a bit 2 dimensional, but still sounds good. I dug out my old Emotiva XPA2, first generation and it sounds fantastic with the LRS+ speakers. Add the Rolls XS45 crossover and a pair of REL MKIII subs, audio nirvana.
Thanks!!
They sound good by themselves but not so much on AB tests with an AU $1,800 ab amp.
@@michaelwright1602Yep, after hearing the fosi, I changed to my Audiolab 6000A a/b amp, (which cost well over a grand) and everything just opened out like crazy! Didn't think that it would be that much difference. 😅
Agree with you Randy. Also, love the Triumph T-shirt.
First off Randy you are smart. Darko is too. You have influenced me to purchase a SMSL SU-1 and a Fosi BT 20 A Pro. Great value products. Had the Fosi running my 5 K Bryston loudspeakers to 95 db +. Sounded good enough that my wife said why did you spend big money on a Hegel. All the best Randy.
My ChiFi report; According to Spectroid graph, my 200w class D amp is driving Elac DBR62's down to 30 htz (playing pipe organ), while mids and highs sound, well, very good. 30 to 41 htz play equally loud. These notes are B (30.5 htz), B#, C, C#, D, D#, E (E is 41 htz, the low note in Narcissistic Cannibal, an open E bass string). Volume is 76 - 85 db (at 9' away) or lower usually. The Elacs did not sound this good with a lower powered A-B amp. 25 w per 8 ohm channel was not enough. But the Douk ST-01 Pro has no problem getting loud enough for my taste. Some furniture began buzzing, had to add some padding, but no problem. Now, about that sub... Thanks for the video.
As a died in the wool vintage hifi lover, never thought I would enjoy a Fosi audio amp, but I gave it a go with some decent bookshelf speakers and it’s good at most volumes, I don’t play at the margins so works for me.
Cheap class d amplifiers have changed my life contrary to what you say in that now I can justify having a stereo in every room and they are a pleasure listen to without breaking the bank. AND fact that you wearing a Triumph motorcycle shirt has just elevated your status. I love my Tiger 1050
Randy is right on 100% here. I'll add two things. First, if you're into 2 channels over home theater I think the sound on the Fosi and probably others absolutely destroys what they're selling at Best Buy for quite a bit more. To me, a $500 to $600 HT receiver from there has maybe $50 worth of parts and the rest goes to all the levels of distribution, advertising, shareholders, etc. I have a $750 Yamaha HT receiver and in 2-channel mode, my V3 sounds better. I think that means that someone can put more money into their turntable, DAC, etc. rather than pay for a poorly built big-name big box receiver. Secondly, there is a lot of gatekeeping in the audiophile world, and that spills into ChiFi. I have components from several higher-end manufacturers and I'm in those FB groups and they are an extremely insular community. They don't even like high-end outsiders like Devon Turnbull even if his stuff sounds utterly amazing. John Devore did a whole video on that aspect of audiophilia. There are guys, and yes it's always guys, who won't consider any class D amp no matter the maker. Even the ones that cost 5 figures because their mind will only lump them with disposable Pyle products. Thanks again Randy for running the best hi-fi channel on RUclips.
I agree. My Fosi v3 sounds better than my Denon 11ch receiver that cost me like $1600
Another great video! Thank you very much! You can also get good AB amplifiers for little money. I'm thinking of Rega io, for example. 4 months old second hand for 340€. It's based on the circuit from John Linsley Hood 1969 (Class A sound), made entirely in Great Britain with the best components, 2 x 30 watts, more than sufficient for 8 Ohm speakers. I sold my Accuphase E-211 for it and don't miss a thing. I also replaced the fine-wire fuse with an audiophile one, which was a big improvement. Greetings from Bavaria (Aschaffenburg)😁
The Brio is nice also.
TLDR: Cheap amps: If you like it, then it's good for you. If you don't then it's not good....FOR YOU.
I'd honestly argue it's good for everyone. With the existence of decent cheap stuff, other manufacturers are forced to step up their game, offer better features, or lower prices to compete
True If you don't care about other things like the economy and national security.
@@bobc455No, innovation actually is very good for the economy and strong trading partnerships are good for national security.
Measurements say the well designed and well built "affordable" amps can compete with anything at any price in terms of clean and accurate sound. I'm pretty happy with my $300 amp even next to my $3000 A/B amp. I am not sure I can tell them apart at normal volumes. At higher volumes the 400 watt per channel $3000 amp wins vs the 200 watt affordable amp.
Agreed! Very reasonable way to look at it. 👍
It's like asking an ignorant person the difference in taste between a Château Pétrus and a Chardonnay. Since his palate isn't trained, he might prefer the $14 wine!
It's the same with hi-fi: we don't all perceive the same things. An audiogram might surprise you ! 😉
I really enjoy this channel, even though I continue to play my 1974 vintage Sansui integrated amplifier and 1980s SONY, TEAC, Tascam, Yamaha, Kenwood, and other old school Hi Fi equipment which easily drives my speakers and headphones to deafening levels and sound great doing it. I ENJOY THIS CHANNEL because it is about listening to music on affordable modern equipment and that makes sense to me. So, bravo, cheap audio guy for encouraging others to enjoy music on affordable gear. Drive on soldier. TNT
I used to be into hifi years ago. My original system consisted of a Dynaco SCA-80 (kit) along with a Dynaco FM3(?) (kit), an AR-XA turntable and a pair of KLH model 23 speakers. I enjoyed that a lot but over the years I left the hobby behind. Recently I wanted to get just a basic system (my current hobby is photography) that sounded good at least to me. So I got a Fosi BT20A Pro, a Schiit Modi DAC and a pair of Dayton Audio MK442T speakers. I couldn't be happier and with a streaming service I really enjoy finding music I would never have been exposed to before.
I own Wilson Audio Sabrina X speakers and i had a friend bring over 2 Fosi Audio ZA3s set up in mono mode. They drew more bass from my speakers at the expense of some smoothness. But i wouldn't say these amps were embarrassed by my Class AB amp costing 10x the price of both Fosis.
That would have been a cool video to see.
Love the t-shirt. I have a 68 Triumph TR25W parked between my JBL L7's powered by a White Oak Audio Phase Linear 700. The kids can sit on the bike while I play motorcycle sounds.
My amp broke, so while saving for a new amp, i bought tha za3 and a line level booster to still be able to use my Acoustic Research AR-3A. What a surprise. I did not expected this sound quality. Better? No, but for me it is not worthed to buy an expensive a/b amp. First of all I did not need the line level booster at all. For me a single amp is playing loud enough. Also I was able to measure bass till 32hz ( used a spectrum metre to see what is going on) so you can understand im very satisfied. I ordered a second za3 amp and 2 opamps. Big smile here.....
Randy this is one of the best defined podcast you have had. You covered all aspects of the argument well. The only point you might have missed was Marantz, Mcintosh, Cambridge etc started out at on time also. They to have had to evolve over time and in the process made changes. At the core of nature is change otherwise nothing evolves.
Thanks to CheapAudioMan, I’ve purchased three Aiyima T-9’s for three separate systems. I am so happy with these little amps. I use a T-9 to drive my 2.1 video system with B&W 683 tower speakers and LOVE the theater-like sound. And, my spouse loves the sound, too. Bonus points.
Something almost no one mentions when it comes to class D is efficiency. The cost of electricity isn't going down anywhere on the planet. The most efficient class A/AB amps are something like 30% give or take. That means 70% of the electricity they use is converted into nothing but heat. Class D amps are around 90% efficient give or take. That means only 10% of the electricity they use is converted into heat.
I have an Audiophonics LPA-S500NC. 2 x 500 watts. I think it draws a half a watt when it's sitting idle. A class A/AB rated at 500 watts draws 500 watts from the moment it is turned on till the moment it is turned off. I leave it on 24/7 and my electric bill has gone up about $1.80 a month. Even after long periods of loud listening driving KEF ls50's it never gets more then warm to the touch. I live in Arizona so the last thing I need is a space heater running in the summer months, which is exactly what a 500 watt class A/AB is.
Most people just getting into the audio scene don't have an extra $100 a month to run class A/AB amps plus another $40 a month to run their ac to cool down their living space. Class B is a win win for the vast majority of people on the planet, especially in other countries where electricity can be a problem.
Good morning Randy☕️☕️☕️, at 62yrs I’ve dug out / dusted off my old Pioneer VSX 5400 system. After a 25+ year absence wanting to jump back in ,not knowing whats out there in the universe of HiFi and should I go with a NOS (?) TurnTable and Speakers or something new. I haven’t made those decisions yet as I’m having as much fun in the discovery faze of what’s out there and the “ who’s , who in this zoo”. I’ve binged watched most of your vids which has sent me down many rabbit holes. I will say that with all this information it’s becoming more and more difficult to Mack a decision, so it might just come down to the tried and true “ rock-paper-scissors” method of choice, either way I win. Thanks for the knowledge and entertainment packaged together. Love it and your channel.
Blessing to you my YT friend.
BTW, my wife of 37 years says you’ve got a sexy voice, sounding like Magnum PI. may want to though in a few “ Higgens” easter eggs for those of us who remember the good ol days.
Certainly a starting point for any musicophile. I am not sure if they replace AB or A class amps, but they can certainly coexist. Thank you for your perspectives, time, and efforts to review and compare this very contentious audio space. Controversy fuels progress and improvement. Take care, brother, and have a great weekend.
The Class D sound is 2 dimensional, with extreme detail. Class A/B is 3 dimensional and holographic, but not quite as detailed. And then we have the costs, you will pay for a nice Class A/B amp with the 3D, instrument separation, dynamics, etc. Class D is the "gateway drug".
Nice shirt! Not exactly audio related but I recently got a brand new Triumph Street Triple 765 RS and I love everything about it. If this channel was about motorcycles I bet Triumph would come up frequently since they make beautiful premium bikes for very reasonable prices.
But then he'd have to review Chi...Moto(?) stuff, lol. That conundrum is burning up the motorcycle youtube channels already.
I had a speed triple 1050 for a few years. brilliant bike. I don't ride anymore but I'd love to again. was like a nuclear green. was the best bike. dual round headlights. very very cool... I'm missing it now
@@cheapaudiomanwe need cheapaudioman in one piece, he doesn’t bounce like he used to!
Just pretend it's the band TRIUMPH...if that helps.😅
Fosi's willingness to engage with the community and implement feedback elevates them to well above average. These amps are great for many, meh for others, and worthless to others. It's OK to be in any of these camps. For me the V3 mono is perfect for the mains on my 2.1 home theater.
i started with Topping MX3 bluetooth amp, worked great for music/TV...then i gave it to a friend. They love it. I then upgraded to Emotiva integrated pre amp/amp :)
I use the upgraded mx3s at desktop. It's quiet (no hissing in the treble), runs cool, is small and has no problems with either the speakers or headphones. And no channel imbalance unlike some amps.
This is why old gas bags like me prefer the "cheapaudioman"......when you're not cracking me up you make perfect sense...nice one Randy !
Great video!!! I do have a bunch of aiyima gear as well as SMSL. I’m running the ao7 pro max in mono, and they are good for what they are. However, they will not be replacing my Yamaha a-s2200. Part of this hobby for me is looks. I need my gear to look good as well. lol. But these class d amps are great!! My Willsenton R8 is one of the best sounding amps with my speakers that I have ever heard. It also looks and feels great. Another thing I do. When I spend a decent amount for a ChiFi product from Amazon, I add the protection plans. They are totally worth it and have saved me a couple of times.
im by no means an enthusiast but im using a fosi V1.0b and a pair of moukey bookshelf speakers that you seemed to like about a year ago and i love it. its amazing the sound you can get for $140 with this combo.
Thanks Randy! As always, great stuff. I am currently using 3 modded (Sparkos OP amps) ZA3's to power L/R/C Klipsch RP600's, and Emotiva BasX amps powering DefTech ProMonitors 1000's for surrounds. I also have an Outlaw 2220 monoblock that isn't plugged in. I know what you're thinking. "How could you have an idle A/B monoblock sitting doing nothing when you have a crappy class D amp powering your CC?" Well, I'll tell you why. It sounds better to me. Period. It may not sound better to you, but it does to me. Will it last as long as an Outlaw? We'll see. But for now, the ZA3's are singing quite nicely.
Man...am I CHEAP. I spent a whopping US$140 on a fully revised...mint...Hitachi SR-503L receiver, from 1977/8. Paired with a vintage $120 Marantz EQ20 (again mint). The DAC...a FiiO BTA30 Pro ($120). Sound quality/performance...I do not know what a professional assessment would yield...except that I think the combo sounds WONDERFUL! [All the vintage stuff from LOCAL auctions]
Insofar as the FiiO BTA30 Pro...it covers BT 5.2 receiving/transmitting as well as serving the DAC role for the above mentioned vintage stack.
Perfect for headphones cabled to the SR-503L. Perfect for office conference calls with a dedicated lapel microphone + BT5.2 KZ AZ09 Pro's w/ ARTTI T10 planar IEM's (AptX HD). Perfect for wireless/near lossless (LDAC) listening via MUSE HiFi M4 (or FiiO BTR5) w/ cabled IEM's. A second BTA30 Pro is perfect for streaming from my phone to the BTA30 Pro (in RX mode) to a mint/revised Hitachi SR-903 ($160) paired with Dali speakers (new, $210) in the family room.
The combination of ChiFi and vintage audio (discreet electronics)...bliss on a budget. Now, if I only had a tube amp! Wait...I think my Pioneer SX-82E or the LX-300T...both mint...might fit the bill! Again, local auctions. The former, under $135 and the later, under $100. Incredible buys, I know.
Vandersteen speakers are made in California, i have an original setof Model II's that are 35+ years old and are still some of the best sounding speakers I have heard. I am in need of a new amp, may try one of these Class D amps.
Good analysis. I agree that it's a 'tide that floats all boats'. In the worst case, the 'traditional class A/B' manufacturers' in the mid-market will be forced to compete on price. As always, the high-end consumer will continue pay for look, feel, exclusivity and (for a few aurally gifted people) for sound quality. But Randy, what about companies like BlueSound (budget), NAD (mif-fi) and PS Audio (top-end) ? They have all embraced Class-D in some form of hybridization. And, in my experience, these amplifiers are clean, powerful and are remarkably uncolored and resolving. We are entering another contentious period of religiosity. Remember - moving-coil vs moving magnet || transistor vs tubes || vinyl vs CD || MQA vs FLAC ... You have a life time career in opinion-broking to look forward to. Thanks for an entertaining channel. Keep 'em coming.
Oh, btw - just saw another comment below regarding heat. I can run my Powernode N330 in a cabinet - the domestic harmony that brings is priceless!
Fosi Audio's customer service is really good, bought a TB10D and one channel was not performing as expected, emailed them with a video comparing the left and right channels and they mailed a brand new unit to me! wow!
I think that listening to the sound of your cinema system, in your car, on your phone, in addition to MP3 files, has completely calmed your ears.
I've bought several of these amps, and they're very decent for their price, but they can't compete with good Mosfet, Class A amps, and even less with tubes.
Go to concerts and listen to live musicians, and you'll see that what comes out of these devices is far from reality, and that after a long listening session, they are often tiring.
Ears can be trained, and the worry is that the more they are trained, the more demanding they become, so if your budget is limited, stick with these gizmos. 😉
It’s clear the host hasn’t done any real critical listening ( on truly high end equipment) in a long time… if ever!
@@robertj1701 Yes, as the saying goes, in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king !
In the sixties Germany invented a special set of rules ( Deutsche Industrie Norm (DIN) ) for making HiFi devices comparable. It had been a set of rules the manufacturers had to run their tests against. It was the DIN 45 500. This is long outdated but it was a good idea back then to make stereo components comparable.
I Always thought a "DIN" was Just a Audio Plug/Jack
I bought a very cheap amp plus power supply under $40, which even has a subwoofer output from aliexpress. I was really surprised how good it was. I was using a pair of old Mission bookshelf speakers as main and a pair of entry level good old Tannoy bookshelf speakers as twin sub for listening. The output rating of the 2.1 amp was only 50wx2 sub 100w but for me it was enough to fill my 3m x 4m room and more.
Solid analysis...Thanks Randy! 👍
I think you nailed it! "If it's bringing more new people to the hobby......That is a good thing" Personally I feel each audio enthusiast, has to start at some place. I've been in this hobby for almost 40 years, and I welcome the advancement of this hobby allowing access to quality new gear, that does not cost an arm and a leg.
Well done and well articulated. A common sense approach to the subject that speaks for a lot of us. Thanks Randy!
Hardware control. I've been looking for a semi-full featured preamp, . I like knobs. I like visual feedback (even digi meters). I like switching sources. I like a mono button. Now, I use a mixer. 3 band eq. Simultaneous multiple sources. Great s/n (96k box). You can change the power amps (or config) cheaply. Buy better speakers. Power supplies matter. (i live in a small space)... Great episode!
I want to buy these but they are "incomplete" for me. I don't want large power bricks, dangling cables, to get proper power. I would like 2 of these as monoblocs, one large toroidal power supply powering them, with high pass filters on mains and subwoofer out.
Might want to wait for the Giuseppe from Geshelli Labs then... Don't know about sub out/filters though.
Sounds like you might like the SMSL A300 which has a BTL mono function which gives 400 watts per amp (need 2) and they have the power supply inside the amp.
In addition, by most reports they sound great and have a sub out and other functions......
Yes! efficiency, low cost, and compact size always wins, unless you are off in the weeds obsessing over $5000.00 audiophile power cables.
Regarding GREAT SOUNDING amps, ALSO DO CONSIDER finding a GOOD CONDITION/SERVICED late '80s/'90s Class A amps like NAD, Pioneer, Sony, Technics (like my '89 SU-600 'New Class A') etc etc. From £80 (with a coupla exterior scuffs etc), all the way to £200 for a pristine well looked after example. The saying goes "They don't make them like they used to" is very true about these era amps, ESPECIALLY if you match them to good speakers, you WILL be surprised at actually how good these amps of the day were and STILL ARE... 👌
Example...
SU-600 specs:-
Power output - 30 Watts per channel into 8 Ohm (stereo)
Frequency response - 5Hz to 70Khz
Total Harmonic Distortion - 0.07%
Speaker impedance 4 Ohm to 16 Ohm
(amongst others)
If you want 'Mo powaaarrr' then yeah, there a classic amps that put out 50, 80, 100+ Watts per channel, and all can be found in great condition for less than £300... Just got to look for them... 😏
😎🇬🇧
Keep doing what you're doing, I'm getting into this thing because you made it so fun and exciting about hifi stuff, in a kind of funny way.
Hi Randy, glad ur back safely, good vid, another step to help people make a good decision, thanks!
Thanks 👍
I had an 8 watt tube amp that was very good. Sold it to a friend. When China puts their minds to it, they excel. They make some nice acoustic guitars as well at nice price points. This will get the attention of some companies that need to get up to speed. They make excellent phono preamps as well...
I remember when Radio Shack's "Realistic" brand used to overrate their amplifiers and speakers RMS values. I had their "Opitmus" speakers. I loved them. They sounded awsome but they were also power overrated. As long as you don't overdrive your amps or speakers, most sound good. If you want louder, spend more but louder isn't always better. It's more better. 😊
Competition is good for everybody, and brand loyalty is good for nobody except that brand. More competition simply means more reasons for a well-established brand to justify it sticking around so long by making better products. If an older brand can't make as good or better products for at least a comparable price, then they have no reason to still be in business until they can fix that.
We should not be complaining about good audio getting cheaper. We should be complaining about big brands relying on their name to justify overcharging.
I have some 20 years old 20 dollar class T (texas instruments class D) these things are 8 watts/ channel and run on 12 volts DC. they sound great! i have so much stuff sitting around that does not get used. my main stereo is a pair of 40 year old cerwin vega speakers and a pioneer sx-34b with a techniques sld2 turn table. stuff that I have reconditioned and work great but don't get used, from acrosound ultra linear ii, leak stereo 20 etc etc. with good sensitive speakers in a normal room at reasonable levels the solid state class T amps are in service all the time.
I totally agree. I'm a ham radio operator and people bad mouthed the cheap radio from China.. but you know what it saved amateur radio.
I just picked up a Douk Audio ST-01 Pro 200w ($119) and I was very surprised how much of a difference it made & was noticeable right away. Now I was only hooking it up to my Brennan B2 CD player / ripper which is being played in a smaller room, so I was hoping to save some money & get better sound out of the Brennan which has its own built-in amp (not very strong) so a quick optical line hookup with my Sony bookshelves speakers & Bam the sound jumped - so know what you are buying & what the use will be & save some $$
When it comes to products in the marketplace, competition definitely breeds excellence. I have a Lepai Chi-Fi Class D amp that sounds as good as the NAD D2030 for rock and classical and several products from Fossi that all do a great job. You're totally right--the consumer wins, and anyone who's approaching audio as a hobbyist/enthusiast is going to buy gear, try gear, and make their own distinctions about what sounds good for their music, their volume, their listening environments, and their tastes. Vive les differences!
I belive the sound will sound the same... its like when you drink expensive wine... you feel good because you know its expensive 👌Everything is just in your your mind 👌
You are so right, Randy! 3 years ago, I started with Dayton Audio B652 air speakers plus a Dayton 10" powered subwoofer along with a cheap Lepai chip amp and Schiit Modi 3 DAC. Cost: About $425
Today, I am using Martin Logan 15i speakers with 2 SVS SB-1000pro powered subwoofers and a Parasound NewClassic 275V2 amplifier with an SMSL 9pro DAC w/preamp outputs. Cost: About $2800
Both systems are fine, but it definitely gets better as you climb up! Thanks for this review!
Try disconnecting the dac, listen for 1 hour, you won't hook it back up
@ericschulze5641 what do I listen to?
@scottbennett3119 there's no need for a dac, your music source or device already decodes it , all a dac does is color the sound typically boosting the upper midrange, which is where most of our perception is, basically making it sound like a boombox, just do it! It only takes about 5 minutes to disconnect it
@@ericschulze5641 I don`t think so. For digital playback you need a DAC.
@scottbennett3119 I KNOW FOR A FACT that you DON'T need a dac. Just try it, . . . But . . . You won't, but you'll spend more and more $$$ on cables and this and that, & wast hours and hours messing around, but won't take 5 minutes to see what I'm trying to tell you
I bought a cheap ad amp with two mic inputs and Bluetooth just for singing as amp/rec don’t house those inputs anymore. This A$50 amp works awesome.
Its not luck. They started strong, asked for feedback, listened to complaints and suggestions, and quickly implemented changes.
I got in with an $18 50WPC the size of a deck of cards, just a top and bottom plate (no case), and running on the TPA3118 surrounded by surface mount components. Does my old Pioneer sound better?yeah. Was thw BT20A pro an upgrade? Yeah for sure. But it got me through when one of my amps blew up, and its currently powering a sub and two sony 3 ways out in the shop, and no, it doesnt sound bad. It gets loud and it has bluetooth.
I'll save my bucks for the good spot in the house..but i love these things. I hate that.
Ok ok.. lets have an unacheduled factory tour
it started out as luck but you're absolutely right. and I made this point in the video.
@@cheapaudioman I think I was typing while you were talking. My bad, all good
Love the content man! I can't agree with you more. I started out with a cheaper system and now I have two mid-priced systems. You have to start somewhere and throwing 4k out the window (or more) just isn't what most people can do!
Depends upon your speakers, chain, room, and your preferences and hearing ability.
yes. it certainly does.
@@cheapaudioman 🙌
That’s like saying buying gloves depends on how big your hands are.
Most amplifiers (there are obviously some poor designs too) are objectively better than just about any loudspeaker.
@@ricochet243 more complicated.. not just size of your hands.. but are you gardening, driving, skiing, golfing, or OJ’ing. Do you want something cheep or do you want a premium feel. Do you want it for a single use or to last a decade. Gloves and amps are very complex purchasing decisions.
I have a class D amplifier and I am satisfied. Class D, when well made and designed sound good. My speakers love the class D.
The next move by Fosi Audio is a Hypex Class D which will disrupt the market
Should be out this year
Fosi will most likely do a decent job on the first one
They will refine it and then legit 2 X 250 or 2 X 500 for less $$$ and higher quality will follow
Completely agree with you
I can't wait!
@@cheapaudioman Fosi should build a GANfet class D.
I wonder what they'll have to charge if they're buying in amp modules from Hypex. I saw them mention the plan of internalising the PSU into a larger case and having flexible amp options. I think they suggested up to 6 channels per case. That sounds like what other Hypex based designs are doing. I'd love to know how far down the development pipe that plan is.
Buckeye and others are doing 2,4,6,8
But there are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and more
The modularity is there for whatever
Let’s see what Fosi Audio does and especially in the implementation, both input and output and amplifier versus integrated. The four proposed case designs I saw looked to be 2 channel.
BRAVO ZULU RANDY!!! We all started our audiophile journey gear that didn't sound Amazing. But it sounded Better than what were Used To hearing!!! That is the key! The magic elixir that got me started down the path. ChiFi gear is filling the void ignored by the audio companies who themselves will benefit later on down the road. It's a Wonderful time to be an audiophile!
Who here started with Tripath TA2020 amplifier chip? I did when my late 70's Onkyo died and the repair bill was going to be more than a new one. $20 later I had sound coming out of my speakers
I bought a wiim amp after seeing it on one of Randy's videos. I really like it. Very adjustable. If I get feed up with the troubles of vintage gear, I could see just using the wiim.
IMO, not the same as a dedicated headphone amp but a MG10XU Yamaha mixer and my AKG K240 mark II is more then enough for me.
The eq's are simple yet fun for me to play around with.
@Randy you big hunk of Cheap Audio man - they are what they are! and your picks (Fosi Audio V3 with the orange knob, gotta have that copper looking knob, to drive a pair of Tannoy Stratfords on my TV, themselves upgraded with better resistor and Clarity polycaps) have been a revelation to me. More deep bass than the very good class A/B it replaced. Though not quite as natural but it was 99 QUID! How can I complain? I can't. Keep it up.
"A man of confidence seldom finds it necessary to defend his stance." - some old confident guy
I always assumed that the best objective measure would be a means to compare the reference audio (music being listened to) from the source versus the sound recorded, in the room, at playback for any given system. As the delta between the two would decrease, the system would be "better" and conversely, as the delta increased, the system would be "worse". The reference audio file would be from the digital master recording, using no equalization, to compare to the recording of the same file in the room through any given audio system. I know people do this with a "tone sweep" file to produce the same results, but people are reluctant to believe a tone sweep comparison is comparable to a music recording, as if there is some magic that happens in a music recording vs. a tone-sweep audio signal. That way, people can compare their listening experience to an "ideal model" of the music and realize their own preferences/biases/etc. regarding their system.
For me Class D amps fit the bill (pun intended) In addition to the great sound, the footprint is just right. When friends come over they have no idea where the sound is coming from until I show them that it’s hiding in a bookshelf. Thanks for your passion, Randy!
My class D amps use 2 Purifi boards made in Europe (Italy maybe?). 240 wpc @ 8 ohms. I had a Rotel AB. I could detect a more neutral sound, ever so slight. The amp is from Audiophonics in Europe, their own implementation. I am planning an A/B test to see if I am missing something.
I think it's cool that they are constantly improving the fossi. Even though I don't like that they are doing a Kickstarter. I just broke down and bought a wiim mini for my smsl su1 dac . I have really nice speakers that I designed and built that a put a lot of money into and I have been powering it with a Dayton hta 200 tube hybrid. My reference speakers have 10 woofers and the bass punch is awesome and the clarity and dynamics are amazing. A lot of it has to do with my speakers but I couldn't believe the difference I got from the smsl su1 and just the wiim mini!!!
First 100 dollar speakers sounding like 250k Focals, now these cheap amps sounding like amps 10 times their price. We get it, you are trying to stick to your name but let us all be reasonable. A good (read: well engineered) power amp will sound all the same under distortion levels when volume matched. No 2 ways about that. So these amps, presumably well engineered, will sound the same as any well engineered power amp regardless price, until it runs out of juice, or current, if you want to exact. These cheap amps are usually load dependent too, so depending on what speaker you hook it up to, it might sound neutral, bright or even dull. Thats the power side of things, the pre section is a totally different matter as it is the section that usually designers go to 'voice' their amps, if they wanted to in the first place. But lets keep that for another rainy day.
I’m a musician. I use QSC K series powered cabs. They use class D amps. Are you saying that all class D amps break up above 85 dB?
While a rising tide floats all boats things get interesting when the tide reverses.
Then large, slow, heavy boats which go deep under the waterline and if it a fast reversing tide they get stuck on the seabed…
I have 3 different amps that I switch between, a Rotel A11 Trtibute, an older Rotel Pre/power set up and an SMSL A300. They all do things well and differently. Funny thing is, the Rotels would traditionally be more "audiophile" products, but I find myself more often than not listening to the SMSL class D. The A11 Tribute certainly has a more revealing sound with better sound stage etc, but I find it lacks some "oomph", even with the bass boosted, which I find fatiguing after a while. The older Rotel amps definitely have that "oomph", but lack a little in detail, which could be due to their age (early 90's). To me the SMSL just has a more enjoyable range and is less fatiguing. It does lack in some areas, but overall I find it a more enjoyable listen - perhaps because it's less clinical (?). I am sure that with more of a budget and some time to audition, I could find a better amp that fulfils all of my criteria better, but for the price, the SMSL has been great so far.
I bought a ZA3 for my desktop setup. Added the Sparkos op amps. I Also have a Cinema 60 for my home theater system that I also use for 2 channel listening right now. So, I hooked the ZA3 up to my fronts using the 60s preamp out as a experiment ... you know as we tend to do . I like the sound of the Cinema 60, but really enjoy the ZA3 on the Elac fronts better. I have a 2nd ZA3 on the way to mono block the fronts and will get and I will get back around to a new amp for my desktop after that. I will say the Sparkos made a WORLD of difference for my ears.
Thanks Randy and keep up the great content!
Randy, I have the SMSL A300 amp fed by the Wiim Pro Plus, hooked to Sony SSCS5 speakers and an entry level Polk sub. It sounds fantastic in my medium sized living room. I guess you could say that I have drunk the CheapAudioMan Kool-aid!
Good perspective. I enjoy how you kept this conversation balanced with good and relevant comparisons.
My 2 cents: .. The Better Class D ... ( imo ) is the incoming Gan-Fet stuff.. and there are a bunch of USA brands doing some great stuff in Class D ..
Orchard Audio
Buckeye Audio
PS Audio has the M700 Mono ..
and .. AGD Productions Inc.
(probably a lot more in the USA that are going well in the Class D space )
Pricey? ... Yes - They are .. but .. they are doing it for the 85-90db crowds. It's a next level ..but can provide SO much better sound across the board.
Thank you for another great video Randy! Preach brother, I am the middle age person you describe. Your video on the reisong a10 got me started again using the link in your video to buy it and i love it daily and tube roll... and yes, now I am down the rabbit hole, went to Axpona and saw your presentation etc. And yes, I want more traditional high end stuff now dammit. 😂
Ps. Minor edit at 5:51 it shows the cambridge but I believe it should show the yamaha. Anyway, thanks for what u do!
Ps2.. wharfedale 12.2 and paris a10 classic are on the dream board now.
Great video. Thanks. You’ve gotten me back in the hobby. The class d amps don’t do it for me. Except one…RSL makes it. What I have learned - I like class a. It seems to give me an emotional experience. A/B is good, only because its affordable. Chasing class a gets effin expensive. ✌️
Fosi customer service is top notch. A little unfortunate with the time difference resulting in emails one at a time, one a day unless you stay up late, but they were awesome with my ZA3 having an issue.
most of the high-end audio equipment have gone insanely and unrealistically high in the last years. we've been getting legally ripped off and royally screwed by these Fancy big names.. this mentality: EXPENSIVE = BETTER & CHEAP= BAD is fast changing and so as the World as well as the Technology. less expensive does not mean bad product any more.
i watched a bunch of QUALIO-IQ speakers videos using FOSI amps against much expensive gears. they sound awesome. that proves your point Randy. and as you said "stop crying" 😁. they're here to stay, and are getting better". THANK YOU . Great episode.
I am running a highly modified pair of ZA-3 mono blocks… they really are excellent sounding.
Excellent "discussion" Randy - you make a number of excellent points and better yet, it is the clarifications and important distinctions, that make it very useful. Almost nothing in this world is black or white/right or wrong/good or bad - and almost everything is on a complex (3D?) spectrum. Everything has compromises - and nothing is perfect.
Moukey MAMP3 55$, Sony SSCS5 75$ power my computer, my wife and daughter's computers X2 years very happy. Thanks!
I am currently running 2 Aiyima A07 Max's in mono driving a set of Delcoid LM-1 satellites and a passive 12"sub. I was surprised that they drive the sub as well as they do. The amps are a bit treble forward, especially compared to my other amps...a GAS Ampzilla and QSC GX 5. They are rated at 200wpc into 8 ohms and 500wpc into 8 ohms respectively. The Aiyima's sound good, but they lack the fullness of either of the big amps. Even so, I'm still going to use them for the time being as my space is at a premium. I'm running these as a desktop system. I have a big desk but my sub is under my desk right now. It works better than Ex-Lax if I crank it up.
Yes, we win.
Curious why you're not talking about the Hypex or Purify class D's though. Sure relatively speaking more expensive that these based on TI amp chips ...
But when you consider upgrading the power brick ... the difference drops.
I agree with what you're saying.
But going the route of a Buckey or Orchard Amp... more money, but still relative to their counterparts... 'cheap'.
This leads to a couple of questions...
1) If you're going to spend your money ... within a budget... where do you put the bulk of it? Speakers, Amps, pre-amp, DAC or something else?
2) If you're not going to do a side by side comparison between an 'audiophile' quality gear, or something for us regular folk... will you miss or even notice the difference?
Personally, I'd pass on the chi-fi amps and go w a purify kit.
When I bought my first pair of Hifiman headphones which is the Sundara (2020) back in 2021 they were defective and one of the drivers didn't work at all so I had to get them replaced... My replacement hasn't had any problems at all... I know what he was talking about when he was mentioning Hifiman
These are amazing. And with switching power supplies no less. I may have to get one to drive my 4 Ohm speakers. Great review CAM!
The problem for me is the single input for most of these good class D units. Integrated amps can switch between multiple inputs. On the other side, a tv is now a good digital input switch, but not necessarily a good daq.
So, one ends up buying a small zoo of equipment and spends around $300 minimum. Still a good value, but not as much as it initially sounds (pun intended). Then one is tempted to upgrade often, one unit at a time, increasing the cost. At least there is good fun setting it up.
I use a Topping PA5 II plus and it drives my 2 different speakers to insane levels no problem
If I had tons more money to spend I'd get the Topping B200 and run them with a decent pre-amp, but if you run the calculations it's not going to play things at much higher levels.
Just got a pair of Q Acoustics 3010i for my PC desk, plan on getting the V3 or ZA3 to power them. Them being so small that they can fit easily on a small desk like mine (120cm*60cm) is a huge plus.
Those don't deserve the v3 mono pair. Za3 is it.
I have a V3 running a pair of Q-Acoustics 3020s in my 2.1 home cinema setup. With a DAC that has a remote control and a Martin Logan Subwoofer that has speaker level inputs… it sounds far superior to both a Peachtree Decco and a Marantz NR1200 that I’ve used. Clear and resolving, in a smallish room that I don’t need to crank it up. I got the V3 before the ZA3 was available, on a Black Friday sale. It’s such a nice and small size and sips mains power, especially in comparison to the Peachtree and its 25 watt A/B power output.
Very happy with this setup… I think you would be too!
@@rickbrookes9491 Which DAC do you use? I plan to hook the V3 (once I get it) directly to my PC. As for the subwoofer, I do plan on getting the 3060s sometime in the future.
@@novakk86 have you looked at the smsl ao300/a300? Based on the same tpa3255 chip, but has multiple inputs and I believe a subwoofer pre-outs, and built in DAC.
I have not seen testing as far as it's objective performance compared to a za3 or v3, but I'd be surprised if it was much different.
@@Artcore103 Tnx, I'm gonna take a look. I don't really plan on using this pair for anything other than the PC. DAC, internal power supply, and the sub out do look nice.
Sound quality is all about perception. If you believe that what you hear is directly related to dollars spent or where an amplifier is made, then you will "hear" differences. I've met people who have read a particularly flowery review, and then immediately believe that they hear the "warmth" or "speed" described in the written words. Once you've gotten past the purpose of an amplifier - which is to simply amplify the signal as it was recorded, without changing it - it all comes down to perception and belief. I'm seeing this with people who can't believe that something like the WiiM amp is as good as it truly is.
Yes, agreed! 👍
I think that you can definitely get better sound, bass control, etc. with better amps with better power supplies. But you may not be able to tell that much difference depending on the rest of your gear, the quality of the recordings you listen to, or the type of music you listen to.
If you drive low sensitivity, low impedance, resolving speakers at high volumes you probably want to go elsewhere.
The real message is that for low end and mid fi equipment, the quality you can get is so much better than “ in the good old days”.
One of your best videos.
Help!! I'm so confused guys. I've been watching a lot of your videos, and I really wanna start to improve my sound quality at home, but, hell... with one of these class D Amps, do I still need a DAC???? Will improve the sound quality with another DAC, or the integrated DAC of the fosi audio is enough??