Francis - great vid. I’ve owned a Gen 3 Levo Expert for a few seasons and was able to ride the new Pivot last fall. The bikes are really, really close. Some things are better on the Pivot and the Levo excels in other areas. Would happily own either bike. I think what really stands out with the Levo is that it was released three seasons before the Pivot. Pivot had all that time to develop something better and they barely caught up! Barely!
Very, very good insight. Yeah, they are close indeed. I thought the Pivot had it in the bag since I own an older Gen3 Levo for the shootout. But Specialized caught wind of it and they sent me a brand new one for comparison. Freshly built shocks, brakes, tires are so key for these ebikes to put their best foot forward.
Pivot Shuttle AM FTW! "I love riding this thing" is what I tell my wife after every ride, lol. Like a analog trail bike on crack. It's powerful! eMTBing on my Pivot has made many more trails possible for me, reduced/eliminated the recovery time so I can get more rides per week, explore new places and trails and overall simply more smiles per mile. Worth every penny (shop around for best deal/discount!). Only test ride/demo one if you have a spare $10K in the bank! 😆
Love the reliability of the bosche but the noise it makes going downhill is what made me go with powertrain instead. I couldn't deal with a constant rattle (first ebike), hopefully Brose/SRAM made some improvements on the motor.
Yes, great point. Silence downhill is the big advantage of the Specialized Levo motor. The Bosch still rattles. Not as bad as the Shimano EP8 but they really have to fix this issue.
Love the pivot and the Bosch motor. But the support I get for my s works Levo is just unmatched. You can pretty much go to any state and there is a Specialized dealer that can help you.
I got my base Carbon levo for £3600, got a fox 38 for £640, added some magura mt5 estop for around £230 with discs and added a super deluxe ultimate shock I had going spare. Great bike now for under £5km. Not much came close for price.
Man, I found my gen 3 levo, and decoy with ep8 go uphill just as good for me. I buy an ebike based on value and downhill prowess. I would be more than happy with pivot or levo. Like always thanks for showing them.
Great point. At the end of the day, it's the descending quality that is key since they're all pretty fast going up. Just have to be dependable. Easy on the wallet too.
Not yet. That is very, very exciting for sure. It is why a lot of manufacturers are switching to Bosch. They have the great full-powered motor and they have the most promising lightweight motor ready.
When the Levos go on sale, they become incredile deals since they are fundamentally great bikes. Ducati, I don't know much about. It seems motorcycle brands are not really in a position yet to innovate in ebikes, just shaking the money tree and possibly setting the groundwork to do solid ebike engineering in the future.
Definitely the Pivot! Just throw a Zeb in front and a coil at the back, mullet, and you are good to go...if only the Shuttle LT came with the Bosch! Any chances we see you testing the Commencal Meta SX Bosch? Keep up the good work!!
9:27 My Bosch CX died completely after 2000 miles. My Levo motor had a tiny bearing noise when backpedaling after 3000 miles. So anecdotal i know but I'm really not convinced about the Bosch "legendary reliability". Moreover, my Levo motor was replaced in 3 days, my Bosch took over a month, by the same shop too. As for noise, my Levo motors have never been noisy after 5000 combined miles. My Bosch motors have both sounded like an old-fashioned kettle whistling, from new I'll take the Levo over a Bosch bike and day.
Great share. Thank you! In my bigger sample size. Definitely higher % of Levo failures. The caveat is high turbo usage is normal. And yes, Levo repairs happen much faster
@@EMTBReview don't disagree. On the bright side, I went into the shop to see what was keeping them with my Bosch CX replacement and came home with a Levo, so Bosch tardiness has its upside! 😄
I have not. In the past Power Plays that I've tested, they've been responsive, powerful motors. They were always ahead of their time. Reliability, integration, efficiency, drag, compatibility were always a downside. That motor is so big and proprietary I feel they need to use a Bosch too on a model or two.
I hate to say it but I think the enormous bottom bracket on the Levo with the ep8 scares some people off. I had an Evo and it was my fav bike I've ever ridden. But if I were in the market for an E bike I would lean towards the pivot
I just received mine about 1 month ago: I'm talking about the Pivot Shuttle AM in its Pro version (size M, same color). Only 250 Km up to now because the weather here in Europe is really not good.
Very few have spent significant time on both bikes. They're so close in abilities that it's hard to judge. That Bosch really puts it over the top. The Shuttle AM suspension too seems more supple and capable up and down.
You should consider to contact Seth (Berm Peak) to make some videos together, since he’s also in RC (but had no RC videos for quite some time). There would be potential for some fun MTB/RC mashup content.
I think the Fezzari Timp handles as good as these two bikes and with a bit more travel The Fezzari is held back by the 630wh battery and the Shimano EP8 motor that not as powerful or dialed as these two motor system.
No, definitely not. It seems Bosch will never go there as they really prefer their 'auto' modes of Tour+ and Emtb. Instead of microtuning the power assist 'a dozen times' during a ride, Bosch chose to design modes that the rider never has to touch during a ride. Kinda of an opposite approach.
2021 Kenevo crushes both of these bikes - I'm running a custom 180mm Zeb with Avalanche Racing hybrid coil in front and a custom Avalanche rear coil. There is zero reason to not go long travel on an ebike if you love aggressive terrain. My biggest rides so far are ~35 miles and 5k+ climbing. This thing climbs like crazy, and descending is unmatched vs any other bike I have been on. I have recent experience on a top of the line gen 3 levo and the kenevo is much more confidence inspiring on gnarly steep raw terrain. Until we see a major change in drivetrain (no more rear derailleurs!) or suspension (electronic compression / damping adjustments while riding) I will not be moving to another platform. I am also at 950+wH with my trailwatts range extender which removed all range anxiety and was a total game changer as I only ride turbo.
I second this comment above. The 2022 Kenevo expert is an absolutely amazing bike. Can make it a mullet, full 29 or 650 B whatever you want. Got it from ABS for about $6k. I also have mine set up with the avalanche hybrid coil damper in the Boxxer fork and custom avalanche woodie in the rear. A few weeks back in Santa Cruz I did a 35 mile ride with 5500 feet of climbing, including a bunch local steep trails, went down to Humble Sea brewery for a pint and back up to Bonny Doon. 700 Wh Battery was in limp mode in the red so pretty much drained at the end of the ride. Absolutely fantastic bike though after having had two other Levos and don’t see anything on the market to best it right now. Happy Trails!
Hey Francois, you might want to use a category for a judgment that includes somebody’s geographical location, in regards to being able to get their bike serviced or not. For instance, in Port Angeles, Washington, we have one legit shop that services, e-mountain bikes, and only specialized bikes because of their staffing. They actually will only work on specialized bikes, which is silly, but true, despite how much great mountain biking there is here. So if you want to get a Bosch bike or a Santa Cruz or something else With the Shimano motor serviced ,you have to go all the way to Seattle area. which is a long journey because there’s driving and fairies and etc. etc.. part of the problem is growing pains, and this town absolutely needs another bike shop with other bikes and specialized that are electrified. However, if somebody took your review to heart and they lived here and they bought a bike, they couldn’t get serviced here. Theyd craigslist it when it got broken and they’d buy a levo locally.
Be mindful that Specialized won’t honor the warranty if you don’t have your original sales receipt. My battery in my Levo was bad from day one and it was like trying to pull teeth getting them to cover it and it still cost me $200 for labor. Ya believe that s**t?
Good to know. It seems like a lot of this is at the discretion of the Local Bike Shop. Some are very easy to deal with and some put customers through the ringer, and charge a lot of fees for warranty work.
Given the fact that the Gen3 Levo is going into its 4th year since introduction in an ever so dynamic e-bike environment, it rather amazes me how it still holds up well to the newest breeds of e-mtbs. That alone tells me what a great job Specialized has done despite the initial problems with the brose motor.
Definitely. The fact that that bike is still competitive is really a testimonial to how much understanding they have in this category. The new generation off levo is coming for sure and I bet it’s going to be another leap forward.
I had the opportunity to demo a Shuttle AM and it was very similar to my Santa Cruz Heckler 9. I know I only rode it for a few hours but not a huge difference imho.
The shuttle not coming as mullet is a deal breaker for me! Bike needs to be designed around it to be optimal. Think Pivot should maybe do small, medium in mullet and large, extra large in 29er also the master mind tcu is way better than what Bosch has currently. Also I think the geo is better on the levo. Pivot has went to far with reach numbers My levo fits me perfectly!
I agree. Really unfortunate that the really good emtbs have to be so expensive. The $6k carbon Levo went on sale fore $3500 with two batteries and so many had a chance to here to buy it and upgrade and set up the bike of their dreams!!
there are better bikes out there for way less money with even better spec, that Pivot should come with the X2 rear shock for that price, bikes from Canyon, Nukeproof, Whyte & Transition sell some better packges, you are also paying for the name especially with the Specialzed!
Yes agree on many fronts. I’ve tried all the brands you mentioned though and they offer great value but just ok bikes. The Pivit really looks like it should have an X2. But every time I ride it seems dialed!!!
It's a good bike indeed, specially with the lower pricing now. Does need other price points though. Also mullet in Large is a key, key omission. We'll have a long-term review on it soon.
honestly, from somebody with outdoor program administration interests and a wilderness education background , I would focus more on the trail access/advocacy and progressive business parts of mountain biking. Not, whether you’re running a mullet or a full 29 for Your contrived testing situation. Access/serviceability Bidens what haircut your ran or are testing!
Great bike. But the unremovable battery is a deal breaker for peoples like me who lives in cold weather Canada. Here you need a heated garage if you want to charge the battery on the bike.
@@EMTBReview not safe and/or refuse to charge as a protection. And it is better to keep an eye on the battery when it is recharging, easier to do in your kitchen or living room... Of course i like very much the pivot shuttle and the levo, but... A garage is too expensive !
In the looks department, Specialized is definitly mor refined. The only thing holding it back is that huge motor bump from that motor that is tilted up to allow the battery to slide down.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
You nailed it again Francis. And now for the mid-power Specialized/Pivot e-bike comparison...
Francis - great vid. I’ve owned a Gen 3 Levo Expert for a few seasons and was able to ride the new Pivot last fall. The bikes are really, really close. Some things are better on the Pivot and the Levo excels in other areas. Would happily own either bike.
I think what really stands out with the Levo is that it was released three seasons before the Pivot. Pivot had all that time to develop something better and they barely caught up! Barely!
Very, very good insight. Yeah, they are close indeed. I thought the Pivot had it in the bag since I own an older Gen3 Levo for the shootout. But Specialized caught wind of it and they sent me a brand new one for comparison. Freshly built shocks, brakes, tires are so key for these ebikes to put their best foot forward.
I get my Shuttle AM tomorrow! Can’t wait 😜
OMG, you lucky man. Much congrats.
Man you want regret that
quick 😂
Thanks man. I am looking forward to it.
Pivot Shuttle AM FTW! "I love riding this thing" is what I tell my wife after every ride, lol. Like a analog trail bike on crack. It's powerful! eMTBing on my Pivot has made many more trails possible for me, reduced/eliminated the recovery time so I can get more rides per week, explore new places and trails and overall simply more smiles per mile. Worth every penny (shop around for best deal/discount!). Only test ride/demo one if you have a spare $10K in the bank! 😆
Sage words there @Masemoto. It is so pricey but so good. It enables so much riding at a very high level.
Love your perspective, parsing out what works for emtbs rather than analog+ electric
Absolutely! I'll try to improve with each video release!!!
Thank you so much! This has been very enlightening to someone new to this market...
Glad it was helpful!
Great comparison! What size did you test on both the bikes?
Love the reliability of the bosche but the noise it makes going downhill is what made me go with powertrain instead. I couldn't deal with a constant rattle (first ebike), hopefully Brose/SRAM made some improvements on the motor.
Yes, great point. Silence downhill is the big advantage of the Specialized Levo motor. The Bosch still rattles. Not as bad as the Shimano EP8 but they really have to fix this issue.
Man, I love my Pivot shuttle AM... Too bad it keeps raining where I live.
It's a tough riding season for most in the US right now. Where do you live?
@@EMTBReview I live near Huntsville Alabama. I would like to mention that I did get a deal from my lbs.
Love the pivot and the Bosch motor. But the support I get for my s works Levo is just unmatched. You can pretty much go to any state and there is a Specialized dealer that can help you.
The Specialized dealer network is bigger and more comprehensive for sure. Lots of ebike experience too with many years under their belt
Base Levo is hard to beat for us regular people. Those prices are not realistic.
Can't tell me they are that much better
Base Levos are awesome and when they went to 40%off in 2023, absolutely fantastic.
Still kicking myself for missing that
@@EMTBReview
I got my base Carbon levo for £3600, got a fox 38 for £640, added some magura mt5 estop for around £230 with discs and added a super deluxe ultimate shock I had going spare. Great bike now for under £5km. Not much came close for price.
i love the overall handling of the levo gen3 best bike for ride just around- up and down!!
Totally agree! Just a groundbreaking Bike when he was introduced and it is still very relevant today
Man, I found my gen 3 levo, and decoy with ep8 go uphill just as good for me. I buy an ebike based on value and downhill prowess. I would be more than happy with pivot or levo. Like always thanks for showing them.
Great point. At the end of the day, it's the descending quality that is key since they're all pretty fast going up. Just have to be dependable. Easy on the wallet too.
Hi have you tried the lightweight Bosch motor yet?Norco is bringing out a new e-fluid soon would be great if you could review that one
Not yet. That is very, very exciting for sure. It is why a lot of manufacturers are switching to Bosch. They have the great full-powered motor and they have the most promising lightweight motor ready.
@@EMTBReview ok thanks the geometry on the norco has been released now and looks the type of bike I would like,hopefully you get to review that to
hi big thanks for the review. In the uk carbon turbo levo was sale for 3999£ astronomically good price. What you think about new ducati ebike then???
When the Levos go on sale, they become incredile deals since they are fundamentally great bikes.
Ducati, I don't know much about. It seems motorcycle brands are not really in a position yet to innovate in ebikes, just shaking the money tree and possibly setting the groundwork to do solid ebike engineering in the future.
@@EMTBReviewcheck ducati powerstage rr
Definitely the Pivot! Just throw a Zeb in front and a coil at the back, mullet, and you are good to go...if only the Shuttle LT came with the Bosch! Any chances we see you testing the Commencal Meta SX Bosch? Keep up the good work!!
Oh man, some overhaulin moddin over there! Great potential for sure. I just rode a 170/170mm Levo done well and it was pretty amazing.
9:27 My Bosch CX died completely after 2000 miles. My Levo motor had a tiny bearing noise when backpedaling after 3000 miles. So anecdotal i know but I'm really not convinced about the Bosch "legendary reliability". Moreover, my Levo motor was replaced in 3 days, my Bosch took over a month, by the same shop too.
As for noise, my Levo motors have never been noisy after 5000 combined miles. My Bosch motors have both sounded like an old-fashioned kettle whistling, from new
I'll take the Levo over a Bosch bike and day.
Great share. Thank you!
In my bigger sample size. Definitely higher % of Levo failures. The caveat is high turbo usage is normal.
And yes, Levo repairs happen much faster
@@EMTBReview don't disagree. On the bright side, I went into the shop to see what was keeping them with my Bosch CX replacement and came home with a Levo, so Bosch tardiness has its upside! 😄
Have you tested the current Rocky Mountain Altitude Power Play. I would be curious to hear how this compares.
I have not. In the past Power Plays that I've tested, they've been responsive, powerful motors. They were always ahead of their time.
Reliability, integration, efficiency, drag, compatibility were always a downside. That motor is so big and proprietary I feel they need to use a Bosch too on a model or two.
Levo for me ! I have a excellent Specialized shop 25 mi from me and a local shops knowledge is invaluable 😊
Yeah, proximity of shop support is a big factor and Specialized has great coverage.
Not forgetting the 2023 Commencal Meta Power SX Bosch w/ Smart System now that’s a beast in all respects.😜Otherwise great review!
Yes, Commencal is the value and performance king! Heavy though.
Does the current Bosch motor stile rattle when descending, like the previous models
Yes, there's still a slight rattle. Not as bad as the EP8, but still there.
I hate to say it but I think the enormous bottom bracket on the Levo with the ep8 scares some people off. I had an Evo and it was my fav bike I've ever ridden. But if I were in the market for an E bike I would lean towards the pivot
Yeah! What happened is they tilted the motor up. That creates that huge box by the bottom bracket
I just received mine about 1 month ago: I'm talking about the Pivot Shuttle AM in its Pro version (size M, same color). Only 250 Km up to now because the weather here in Europe is really not good.
Oh man, you're so lucky with the bike. I think you're going to have a wonderful biking season with it this year.
Yes I think so ... thank you very much 🙂@@EMTBReview
after spending time on both bikes,i couldnt agree more ! PIVOT! :D
Very few have spent significant time on both bikes. They're so close in abilities that it's hard to judge. That Bosch really puts it over the top. The Shuttle AM suspension too seems more supple and capable up and down.
You should consider to contact Seth (Berm Peak) to make some videos together, since he’s also in RC (but had no RC videos for quite some time). There would be potential for some fun MTB/RC mashup content.
Where do you think the fezzari timp peak falls between these bikes? You mentioned it was one of the best handling bikes..
I think the Fezzari Timp handles as good as these two bikes and with a bit more travel The Fezzari is held back by the 630wh battery and the Shimano EP8 motor that not as powerful or dialed as these two motor system.
Does the latest Bosch controller/software have something equivalent to specialized's micro tune?
No, definitely not. It seems Bosch will never go there as they really prefer their 'auto' modes of Tour+ and Emtb. Instead of microtuning the power assist 'a dozen times' during a ride, Bosch chose to design modes that the rider never has to touch during a ride.
Kinda of an opposite approach.
Such a good video!
Thak you my good man!
The new Orbea Wild raises the bar on both of these.
Great bike for a sure but the dealer base and support seems to be rapidly shrinking in CA
Not for long, between March and September of this year the GEN 4 of the Specialized Levo will be released and then it will be at the top again ;-)
Definitely, the Gen 4 Levo will be one to watch... and follow
2021 Kenevo crushes both of these bikes - I'm running a custom 180mm Zeb with Avalanche Racing hybrid coil in front and a custom Avalanche rear coil. There is zero reason to not go long travel on an ebike if you love aggressive terrain. My biggest rides so far are ~35 miles and 5k+ climbing. This thing climbs like crazy, and descending is unmatched vs any other bike I have been on. I have recent experience on a top of the line gen 3 levo and the kenevo is much more confidence inspiring on gnarly steep raw terrain. Until we see a major change in drivetrain (no more rear derailleurs!) or suspension (electronic compression / damping adjustments while riding) I will not be moving to another platform. I am also at 950+wH with my trailwatts range extender which removed all range anxiety and was a total game changer as I only ride turbo.
I second this comment above. The 2022 Kenevo expert is an absolutely amazing bike. Can make it a mullet, full 29 or 650 B whatever you want. Got it from ABS for about $6k. I also have mine set up with the avalanche hybrid coil damper in the Boxxer fork and custom avalanche woodie in the rear. A few weeks back in Santa Cruz I did a 35 mile ride with 5500 feet of climbing, including a bunch local steep trails, went down to Humble Sea brewery for a pint and back up to Bonny Doon. 700 Wh Battery was in limp mode in the red so pretty much drained at the end of the ride. Absolutely fantastic bike though after having had two other Levos and don’t see anything on the market to best it right now. Happy Trails!
👍
Hey Francois, you might want to use a category for a judgment that includes somebody’s geographical location, in regards to being able to get their bike serviced or not. For instance, in Port Angeles, Washington, we have one legit shop that services, e-mountain bikes, and only specialized bikes because of their staffing. They actually will only work on specialized bikes, which is silly, but true, despite how much great mountain biking there is here. So if you want to get a Bosch bike or a Santa Cruz or something else With the Shimano motor serviced ,you have to go all the way to Seattle area. which is a long journey because there’s driving and fairies and etc. etc.. part of the problem is growing pains, and this town absolutely needs another bike shop with other bikes and specialized that are electrified. However, if somebody took your review to heart and they lived here and they bought a bike, they couldn’t get serviced here. Theyd craigslist it when it got broken and they’d buy a levo locally.
It’s not his responsibility to research your specific geographical location, that falls on you.
That is a great suggestion
Be mindful that Specialized won’t honor the warranty if you don’t have your original sales receipt. My battery in my Levo was bad from day one and it was like trying to pull teeth getting them to cover it and it still cost me $200 for labor. Ya believe that s**t?
Good to know. It seems like a lot of this is at the discretion of the Local Bike Shop. Some are very easy to deal with and some put customers through the ringer, and charge a lot of fees for warranty work.
To be honest these are great ebikes but you can’t forget about the transition and nukeproof ebikes
The Transition Repeater is a boat in my opinion. Capable but the opposite of nimble and fun. Can’t wait to see version 2
Given the fact that the Gen3 Levo is going into its 4th year since introduction in an ever so dynamic e-bike environment, it rather amazes me how it still holds up well to the newest breeds of e-mtbs. That alone tells me what a great job Specialized has done despite the initial problems with the brose motor.
Definitely. The fact that that bike is still competitive is really a testimonial to how much understanding they have in this category. The new generation off levo is coming for sure and I bet it’s going to be another leap forward.
I had the opportunity to demo a Shuttle AM and it was very similar to my Santa Cruz Heckler 9. I know I only rode it for a few hours but not a huge difference imho.
Great share, thank you. I feel like the Shimanon Ep8 has a hard time competing now
The shuttle not coming as mullet is a deal breaker for me!
Bike needs to be designed around it to be optimal.
Think Pivot should maybe do small, medium in mullet and large, extra large in 29er also the master mind tcu is way better than what Bosch has currently. Also I think the geo is better on the levo. Pivot has went to far with reach numbers
My levo fits me perfectly!
At those prices both are non starters for the vast majority of mtb'rs.
I agree. Really unfortunate that the really good emtbs have to be so expensive.
The $6k carbon Levo went on sale fore $3500 with two batteries and so many had a chance to here to buy it and upgrade and set up the bike of their dreams!!
there are better bikes out there for way less money with even better spec, that Pivot should come with the X2 rear shock for that price, bikes from Canyon, Nukeproof, Whyte & Transition sell some better packges, you are also paying for the name especially with the Specialzed!
Yes agree on many fronts. I’ve tried all the brands you mentioned though and they offer great value but just ok bikes.
The Pivit really looks like it should have an X2. But every time I ride it seems dialed!!!
Ibis Oso🤘🤘
It's a good bike indeed, specially with the lower pricing now. Does need other price points though. Also mullet in Large is a key, key omission. We'll have a long-term review on it soon.
honestly, from somebody with outdoor program administration interests and a wilderness education background , I would focus more on the trail access/advocacy and progressive business parts of mountain biking. Not, whether you’re running a mullet or a full 29 for Your contrived testing situation.
Access/serviceability Bidens what haircut your ran or are testing!
lol
Good message but this is a product comparison test
Great bike. But the unremovable battery is a deal breaker for peoples like me who lives in cold weather Canada. Here you need a heated garage if you want to charge the battery on the bike.
Good point.
Does the battery refuse to charge in cold weather or is it a safety thing? I know that it's not safe to charge at sub-zero temps for sure.
@@EMTBReview not safe and/or refuse to charge as a protection.
And it is better to keep an eye on the battery when it is recharging, easier to do in your kitchen or living room...
Of course i like very much the pivot shuttle and the levo, but... A garage is too expensive !
The correct answer would be the heckler SL. But all great bikes
My full review of the Heckler SL is coming this week. I have the Pivot Shuttle SL too.
no, the best e-MTB is the PROPAIN EKANO 2AL
That sounds really interesting, but it’s not readily Lee available in the United States.
The Specialized looks way better. The Pivot is kinda ugly.
In the looks department, Specialized is definitly mor refined. The only thing holding it back is that huge motor bump from that motor that is tilted up to allow the battery to slide down.