I listened to this when it was first posted and a second time now. This and the previous are by far the best of your episodes due to your guest Mike. 2 general points on the case: - there has always needed to be a reconstruction of the crash scene. Before everyone dies etc, raising a fund to pay/“bribe” the key participants to take part would be the way to go. The residents e.g. Westmans, Mrs Attwood, retired police (?), emergency services, recovery guy etc etc. and Witness A. - so frustrating that the 3 people who could clarify the events Thurs onwards to the disappearance and could establish her state of mind etc are Fred, Sarah and Kate. If they came forward and were open and honest rather than prioritising Maura’s reputation or protecting their relatives I’m convinced this case would be near resolved.
Did the police ever investigate the people she met at her clinical rotations. I went to nursing school years ago, and as a nursing student you meet many people working at your clinical sites, did she develop a relationship with someone from one of her clinical site, and is that who she may have been meeting that night in NH.
And maybe someone who can help with domestic abuse partner? Because it’s been proven that the boyfriend has a history of abusive and controlling tendencies. Seems like if there was an event ( maybe she found out she was pregnant or the accident in her dads car made her see things differently) and she decided she couldn’t continue living her life with an abusive partner? Sorry I’m still leaving towards the theory that she chose to leave
Let me tell you something about myself. I like to drive a car. I like to drive aimlessly and clear my thoughts and head while doing so. I have ended up thousand times to routes I would have NEVER driven. I have ended up hundreds of kilometers from my home just driving alone spending time with my thoughts. I'm also a photographer and I tend to look for new places. New experiences. Challenging "old routines". I have driven 3-4 different routes between two known places without any real reason. Just for fun. Just for the excitement. Just for the experience. Just to see something new. No matter what time of the year or a day it happens to be. Sometimes driving in complete darkness gives the adrenaline rush too. Something sort of dangerous. Something a sports enthusiast and almost professional level runner would do to get that adrenaline flowing. I think all those credit card and make-up coups were done for the same reason. Adrenaline. It's a helluva drug.
Listening to this again and wondering if u could try to track down someone who lived on her dorm floor?? Someone there has to remember her general routine.
If that were the case, the romantic guy would have picked her up so they could leave Massachusetts together instead of letting her drive alone her unsafe car all the way to New Hampshire.
The AIM thing was a thought that I had as well being about the same age as Maura at the time. Another thought I have is she could have just been randomly driving around in a general direction. I say this because I did this when I was having some problems in college, being from NH I just got in my car one day and started driving North. I wanted to clear my head and figured it takes 4 hrs to get from one end of the state to the other, why not see if I can get to the border (either VT or Canada). I had very vague directions and was just winging it. Not saying this is what Maura did, but being a girl (20ish at the time), upset, and just wanting to clear my head....I can relate.
If she was drinking and/or she knew she'd be drinking while traveling, she surely could be taking a route that puts her away from any police, even if it takes her out of the way and takes her longer to get to her destination We refer to it as "going the backroads"
This is such a great point. I've been following this case for years and still wonder other than theorizing, has anyone been able to confirm 100% which direction Maura came from? The logical assumption is because she left UMASS she was heading east. But we have a missing hour that no one can account for. Could Maura have driven east in that time and got to Haverhill because she was actually heading back West? In other words, was she heading to UMASS or VT as opposed to away from there?
I’m not judging anyone, but I find it curious how little we know about Maura’s personality. Seems like in these types of cases we usually hear a lot more about the person from their friends and family. It’s like everything we know about what she’s like as a person is an inference. Like she was accepted to West Point so she was probably pretty bright. But I haven’t heard testimonies about what she was like, goals, values, etc etc. Anyone?
There has been plenty spoken about her personality from people who knew her, including family, her boyfriend’s mother, friends, etc. I don’t know why people keep saying this kind of stuff. This case is very well known, famous even. It has been on mainstream tv shows, there’s Facebook pages, Fred spoke on numerous new segments, etc. and so many people talked about who Maura was/is.
Your speaking about a person who is clear headed, lucid and familiar with the area-she wasn’t any of those things. Also, Mapquest or “thinking” you know the way somewhere while drinking, possibly having a mental health crisis in the dark would make it likely she got lost or took a road “she thought” was the right way and got turned around etc
Has anyone ever considered the possibility that a deer unexpectedly darted out in front of Maura's car, and she tried to avoid hitting the deer, but clipped it anyway. That would explain the thud that the neighbors heard. After the collision the deer ran off. That would explain the kind of damage her car sustained, and would deploy the airbags.
I'm going to explain the crash. Her car had been stalling that's why they were looking for a new one. Now, when she went around the corner, she slowed to make it and the car stalled, she hit the gas and sped forward. Remember, the black box reported two hits in succession. She hit the gas which caused her to hit a ditch, waking up system and hit a stump, causing airbag deployment. This forced her vehicle southwest. She was still able to move it to the westbound direction in the east bound lane. Her car stalled again. She attempted to restart but with that car, you have to take o it the key to restart, she probably was very stressed and confused and didn't think to take it out to restart and assumed she was stalled out, went and shoved rag in tailpipe to attempt another start, didn't work. Saw Butch declined help, locked up and went down Bradley hill rd where someone picked her up and killed her.
I think Maura did not even go into Woodsville, but she got over on highway 10, off of highway 91. She then decided to turn onto 116, what if she realized that and then turned onto 112 and was trying to work her way back to 302.... Who ever was driving that Saturn, was trying to avoid being noticed by the LE.
She could have already been to her destination within the missing hour?... Maybe something unexpected happened at this original destination that forced her to continue on her journey (as she had already set it up to leave UMASS for a short time and couldn't turn back).
I've had a similar thought. Did Maura have a destination in NH and things went awry or it wasn't available like she thought? Did she have a reason for the trip and once this was fulfilled she was actually heading to UMASS or VT and not away from those locations? How do we know which direction Maura was coming from for certain?
@@Lia2222 There's probably been some reddit discussions. Just another thing to add to the list of unconfirmed facts in this case IMO. It's tough to theorize a scenario that includes Maura leaving UMASS so late in the day. It' doesn't really fit into the whole "leaving to clear her head" idea. I feel like if that was the case she would've left earlier or waited until the next day. I'm starting to think that whatever happened to Maura began in either the missing hour of time or even as far back as UMASS.
I'm nothing like Maura but man my sense of direction is really, really bad and in 2004 before google maps could help me out I got lost all the time lol
Maura knew exactly what she was doing and where she was going. She called her place of work and college to notify them she would be gone. She made calls to try and find a place to stay. She took the insurance forms with her and her school books and she bought some alcohol as she knew that where ever she was going to she would be drinking most likely with someone she was meeting. She called her cell to check for messages and left a message for Bill. By definition her actions do not fall in place with someone in a fugue state. Maura definitely had a reason to be in NH. She had to pay her ticket before she could register a car in her name. Massachusetts is one of 5 states that does not participate in the Driver License compact so she was able to drive in Mass. but not able to register a car in her own name and we know that Fred was buying her a car and she needed to get this paid. Maura was taking a big chance driving there but she was traveling on a back road for reasons we don't know but maybe because she thought it less likely to get pulled over. As far as when and where she was going to pay her fine we don't know but she had all week if we go by what she had told her school. Maura had some cash on her and while I don't know how much her fine was I'm guessing she didn't have enough money to pay it and get a room. Someone else would most likely be taking care of that. Maura would not be calling this person from her phone since the phone was in Bill's moms name. It's quite possible Maura had another phone that no one else was aware of. We also don't know if she emailed this person before she left. She could have had a Hotmail account for example. Unless someone knew her password there would be no way of knowing who she may have emailed before she left. Maura was wreck less at times but she was also a smart girl with great determination. It seems that when Maura was set on doing something little could stop her. I think people need to stop trying to figure out why she was there and focus more on what happened to her after she walked away. Keeping it simple I think it the best way to look into her disappearance. I don't think she was leaving to start a new life and I don't think she was driving in tandem with anyone although I do think she was meeting with someone at some point and this could be another reason why she was on that road. Personally I think she knocked on the wrong door for help after she realized she wouldn't get very far with it being cold and not having any cell phone service. She also had to realize that the police would eventually show up which is all the more reason to get to a phone and call someone. As an aside I think the Londonderry ping could have been the person she was meeting trying to get in touch with her and if she did possibly have two phones this person may have called both as they may have been worried enough at that point to call her other cell phone when she didn't answer the other. Of course this is just speculation on my part.
Fantastic episode...I've always thought something random must have occurred, but I do believe that one day she will be found. As far as a disassociative fugue, it may be reaching a bit...stressful circumstances and severe anxiety with possible depression, in my opinion most likely.
Unlikely things do happen, no mystery to that. Facts don’t contradict she was picked up. Or a tandem driver came back to look for her. Her life/circumstances leading up to her disappearance doesn’t seem that mysterious/complicated. She was 21, ofcourse you can dig up drama.
I agree with him. I've been traveling up in the area since birth and never even heard of Haverhill NH until Maura. Furthest I've been down 112 in that direction is to the tourist attraction the Lost River. I imagine the same was true for Maura and most MA tourist. Seems probable her original destination was VT because of the MapQuest directions and the GOSTOWE call. Something re-routed her but what?? Her mental state could explain a lot and we really know nothing about Maura except for the abbreviated version of her personal life that's been made public. How serious was the break down at work? Could it have been indicative of an underline issue that triggered this spontaneous trip and could it explain some of her erratic behavior prior to her disappearance? I've seen plenty of Disappeared episodes with people in the throes of an episode that take off either to be found dead or not at all. There's two that I can think of that ended up with the people running off into the woods. If this is true in Maura's case then her not having a known destination kind of makes sense. All bets are off in terms of where she ended up and I would think further down the road in the woods would need to be hit harder. I could also see her family not wanting to share this info out of fear that interest may wain in the case if there is no great mystery associated with her disappearance. I've come to the conclusion that at least the possibility exists, if Maura was met with foul-play, it could've happened long before the accident site. Meaning she was either never there or wasn't alone. The investigator he referenced also believed that Butch saw what happened to Maura that night and may have been intimated by this person. If this is true then the following are possible: 1. Maura was abducted or car-jacked long before accident site perhaps as far back as MA and never made it to Haverhill: If the accident was staged I would guess it was by someone that knew her because of the rag in the tail pipe. It's possible that Fred did tell Maura to try that in case of an emergency and coincidentally the person staging did the same thing to make it look like a suicide attempt or to look like someone tried to stall out her car. It also may be true that this person knew Maura well enough to know that her father told her this. 2. Maura was not alone at the crash site and Faith did see a man smoking a cigarette: The investigator referenced in this episode also reported that Faith maintained her account in a follow up interview and it was Fred NOT her that came up with the cellphone charger theory. If Butch saw what happened to Maura could that have been the man smoking a cigarette? Keep in mind Butch initially referred to the driver as "he" in the 911 transcripts of his call. Was this an error or the mother of all Freudian slips??
She had handwritten directions in her car 3 rds. And none were the one she was on, it is thought she missed a 90degree turn at one point and she had to take a horizontal route to get back to her original rt and THATS the rd she had her accident on
The question is, what was she doing there? Types, that's a huge question, but also what was she doing drinking, (we assume), while driving an old unreliable car in the freezing cold, at night, on a road to nowhere, basically. But also, don't forget, if you listen to the Tim Westman episode where Tim and Lance are there with John Smith, Tim Westman says that she accelerated right before the crash. So that to me either means that she crashed on purpose, or she was accelerating around a corner? I don't know the site, so I'm not sure about that. But how did she even have the accident, nevermind how the car got turned around, if the roads were dry? Very strange.
She may of hit back of atwwod bus back up the 112 rd ( what was atwoods route) she may of got irritated she got stuck behind a bus and hit it tryin to pass.....and tried the run after , came to that corner slowed down in that 3 cylinder bomb and it stalled like her dad thinks, he knew the car in and out,...so it stalls she hits a snow bank that would trigger air bags, ...and westman said over and over he heard acceleration before thump, when a bomb car starts to sputter into a stall, instinct is to give it gas to try and feed it to stay firing, but it didnt work so the big Rev rev westman heard was just that, ..then here comes atwood right behind her, ..and then whatever happened happened..vanished in the blink of a eye...i dont know its all opinion...too me most logical is cop abduction
The accident scene don’t make sense, I believe it happened elsewhere, I also believe Maura was murdered and the scene was set. I hope the family get answers sometime, I doubt it though, if it’s a local, they may never know, it’s very isolated and plenty of places to hide a body
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx They may have known of the jurisdictional problem it would create. Local police could not search East until the state police showed up buying more time for a potential get away if the preparator needed to go that direction. It's also possible that's as far as the car could make it with the damage from an earlier crash. When Butch showed up they fled. As for the neighbors, Butch was given 2 polygraphs, John Marotte reported the car may have been backed up, Faith saw a man smoking a cigarette. It's possible they didn't know the car was being staged.
@@DoctorColonelGonzo "They"? As far as we know it was only Maura at the crash site. Everything else are baseless theories. But your theory has a big problem: IF the purpose of staging a crash was to buy time. Then it would have been better just to park and abandon the car somewhere else and make everything look normal. It would have taken days or weeks before people call the police about a suspicious car. Crashing a car in a neighborhood is the worst thing criminals would do since police would be called immediately. The staging theory makes no sense. I didn't serve any practical purpose and it would have been unnecessarily risky.
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx I think you said it yourself "As far as we know" it was only Maura at the crash site. Butch was given 2 polygraphs and his account is the only thing that puts Maura at the Saturn. I don't take his statements as gospel especially when the other eye witness reports seeing the exact opposite of what he saw. "man smoking a cigarette" I only point out staging is possible. To your other point, I think the car could have been en-route to the type of location you described and either stalled out from earlier damage or the preparator crashed the car as people presumed Maura did.
@@DoctorColonelGonzo Yes, "as far as we know" it was only Maura. There is more evidence pointing at Maura being the driver than she not being the driver. And Faith Westman later corrected herself, she never knew if she saw a man or a woman, she saw a shadowy figure, more than 50 feet away, in a dark night, and she just assumed it was a man, but she didn't know. She never approached the crash scene. At least Atwood actually stopped at the crash and talked to the driver.
Is it possible she was where she was because she was on the way to some DMV NH government building to take care of her license? Then it was out of the way and from there she got lost or headed in the wrong direction? That’s a theory I think could explain why she was where she was.
In the dark, exhausted and likely drinking.. she likely missed her exit.. Fred said multiple times that she likely was lost - missed her exit. Or..perhaps she - decided to turn back to UM - needed gas, got off the highway- then she headed in the wrong direction- it’s confusing and easy to get turned around when you try to use Mapquest directions backwards - it has happened to me- especially when you get anxious- and if you aren’t where you think you are the directions become useless.
I think she stopped to eat, or went to a bar or something and someone started talking to her and either she was creeped out, or they invited her to a party or something. She left, thinking that would be the end of it, or set out to follow this person to the party location. Along the way, a number of things could've happened: she got into the accident and the person she was following noticed and went back to pick her up, and something nefarious occurred. Or they left her and something nefarious occurred. Or, they followed HER and either ran her off the road, or she was nervous trying to lose them and she crashed. Knowing there were houses around, the person waited to see what she would do and then caught up with her.
I agree she probably encountered a local. I think the guest in this episode was getting really warm about what actually happened towards the end. For me it comes down to did the accident occur at that corner or not? Given her driving history I think it's at least possible Maura hit a car earlier and this is a case of road rage that escalated, or an impulsive dirt bag that took advantage of an opportunity that literally crashed right into them. This person or perhaps a passenger was the one ditching the Saturn, and Butch Atwood lied about a female at the car because he was intimidated by this perpetrator.
So when more Murray's talking about sister Wasn't she in a sorority. If so she would be talking about her sister. I can't find anywhere that says she was or wasn't in a sorority..
That's people stretching the facts. She was talking about her biological sister. Her sister herself confirmed she talked to her that night. There is no sorority conspiracy.
I've heard that she may have been going to a campground that she was familiar with. I think Jigger Johnson is the name, or something like this. Was this anywhere near here?
Only expressing what I had read, that she knew the area because she had visited a campground near there a few months prior. Maybe she wasnt going there exactly, but there was speculation that this is how she knew this area. Maybe that's not accurate but that's why I asked.
Yes, the campground is relatively near the crash site. The 112 road leads to the White Mountains and the campground. The place is closed in winter season so she would have had to enter illegally and try to avoid any park ranger. Possible? Yes, in theory. I don't rule it out since we don't know what were her plans.
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx But what's she gonna do there John? It's hypothermia inducingly cold, there's Literally Nothing more at those campgrounds than an unheated bathroom which would be a poor shelter, gravel lots with Nothing, no lights, maybe a trash bin. I mean nothing. But it's possible, they should scan the soil around there to rule it out!
I think she's in the forest. Everyone seems to be searching around the crash site, rather than the forest close to the store down the street. A passing local woman said she saw her down the street after the accident and the bus diver said she was shivering. She wasn't dressed for the weather, and also probably she didn't have boots. People who have consumed alcohol are more susceptible to hypothermia. There were snowbanks along the road, that would have been difficult to walk through and tree stands often have less snow under them, and will also block some wind. I think at least partway she tried to take a shortcut through the forest. Also if she was kidnapped it's odd her credit card didn't turn up, as found by a vagrant, thrown away somewhere, or being used. I just have the feeling her wallet and phone are still with her. I think she froze and is in the forest. Also if she was abducted victims often leave clues for searchers like throw a shoe or ID out the window and none was found and nothing like her backpack was found later. The trail ending in the road is consistent with crossing the street, because the store (Way Station) was on the other side. Also dogs can easily lose the trail of scent when it's cold and there is snow. If it hasn't been done, searching the forest onm both sides of the road further down where the witness claims to have seen her might be worth a try.
That's what a I say. The truth is that people have died accidentally and their remains have been found many years later even in areas that supposedly were searched before. So we can't rule out she succumbing to the elements. But some people prefers the conspiracy theories.
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx Exactly. I also thought of another thing that doesn't make sense. If she wouldn't go up to stranger's houses for help why would she get in a strange car?
Wow one of the most compelling episodes ever! This guy is right the pieces aren't adding up bc we don't have the right information. The only person who has been credible from the beginning was Witness B who always stated the car didn't have damage
Come on... a local dirtbag does harm to her and then stages this huge ordeal? What kind of kidnapper stages an accident after kidnapping someone? They kidnap someone and you never see or hear from them. What’s the point of staging an accident? This seems like total craziness to me.
@@johnlanton9363 Sorry but that's a different John Smith. His RUclips Channel is "Truth Seeker Investigations". I tried to add my middle name or a nickname to avoid confusion but I couldn't. As for the ridiculous theories, you are absolutely right. I have read in YT, FB groups and Reddit some theories that are just insane
All good, thanks for the compliment on my comment. Some of these conspiracy theories they’ve started to entertain, like the crazy guy who thinks Butch Atwood killed Maura is ridiculous. Sometimes I understand why Tim and lance want to dig into really crazy theories because they want to keep the channel going and that’s why they don’t “subscribe to any one theory.” But at one point it’s pretty obvious- she either was harmed by a stranger or by Billy.
Best episode you've had in a LONG LONG TIME. You guys are so so close! Hmmm someone she knew online who lived in the area WHO COULD THAT BE!? My guess is it will take 100 more episodes and you'll get to him....... Fingers CROSSED!
I listened to this when it was first posted and a second time now. This and the previous are by far the best of your episodes due to your guest Mike.
2 general points on the case:
- there has always needed to be a reconstruction of the crash scene. Before everyone dies etc, raising a fund to pay/“bribe” the key participants to take part would be the way to go. The residents e.g. Westmans, Mrs Attwood, retired police (?), emergency services, recovery guy etc etc. and Witness A.
- so frustrating that the 3 people who could clarify the events Thurs onwards to the disappearance and could establish her state of mind etc are Fred, Sarah and Kate. If they came forward and were open and honest rather than prioritising Maura’s reputation or protecting their relatives I’m convinced this case would be near resolved.
Did the police ever investigate the people she met at her clinical rotations. I went to nursing school years ago, and as a nursing student you meet many people working at your clinical sites, did she develop a relationship with someone from one of her clinical site, and is that who she may have been meeting that night in NH.
And maybe someone who can help with domestic abuse partner? Because it’s been proven that the boyfriend has a history of abusive and controlling tendencies. Seems like if there was an event ( maybe she found out she was pregnant or the accident in her dads car made her see things differently) and she decided she couldn’t continue living her life with an abusive partner? Sorry I’m still leaving towards the theory that she chose to leave
Hi Tim and Lance, I know a member of U Mass Police department, he is a retired detective from the Manchester, NH police department.
What did he say about this case?
Let me tell you something about myself. I like to drive a car. I like to drive aimlessly and clear my thoughts and head while doing so. I have ended up thousand times to routes I would have NEVER driven. I have ended up hundreds of kilometers from my home just driving alone spending time with my thoughts. I'm also a photographer and I tend to look for new places. New experiences. Challenging "old routines". I have driven 3-4 different routes between two known places without any real reason. Just for fun. Just for the excitement. Just for the experience. Just to see something new. No matter what time of the year or a day it happens to be. Sometimes driving in complete darkness gives the adrenaline rush too. Something sort of dangerous. Something a sports enthusiast and almost professional level runner would do to get that adrenaline flowing. I think all those credit card and make-up coups were done for the same reason. Adrenaline. It's a helluva drug.
Listening to this again and wondering if u could try to track down someone who lived on her dorm floor?? Someone there has to remember her general routine.
Not after 20 years.
I always thought that a weekend, a cabin, and wine sounded romantic.
I would hope I investigators would look into the track coach again.
If that were the case, the romantic guy would have picked her up so they could leave Massachusetts together instead of letting her drive alone her unsafe car all the way to New Hampshire.
Or maybe a person she meet at another visit to the mountains.
I agree.
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx not necessarily.
Cheap Boxed wine is not romantic. The alcohol she seemed to have purchased was party booze imo.
Her friends don't even know who was at the party...of course they don't know who called her.
The AIM thing was a thought that I had as well being about the same age as Maura at the time. Another thought I have is she could have just been randomly driving around in a general direction. I say this because I did this when I was having some problems in college, being from NH I just got in my car one day and started driving North. I wanted to clear my head and figured it takes 4 hrs to get from one end of the state to the other, why not see if I can get to the border (either VT or Canada). I had very vague directions and was just winging it. Not saying this is what Maura did, but being a girl (20ish at the time), upset, and just wanting to clear my head....I can relate.
Let's get us a discussion group. An also lets go on a new search for her. My daddy taught me how to track an what to look for.
If she was drinking and/or she knew she'd be drinking while traveling, she surely could be taking a route that puts her away from any police, even if it takes her out of the way and takes her longer to get to her destination
We refer to it as "going the backroads"
Plus her defective car was smoking. That also would be a good reason to try to avoid heavily patrolled roads.
Good point!
What if she was coming from the other way, heading to Burlington?
This is such a great point. I've been following this case for years and still wonder other than theorizing, has anyone been able to confirm 100% which direction Maura came from? The logical assumption is because she left UMASS she was heading east. But we have a missing hour that no one can account for. Could Maura have driven east in that time and got to Haverhill because she was actually heading back West? In other words, was she heading to UMASS or VT as opposed to away from there?
Why would she be coming from the other way heading to Burlington? That doesn't even make any sense.
Thanks for the episode guys!
I’m not judging anyone, but I find it curious how little we know about Maura’s personality. Seems like in these types of cases we usually hear a lot more about the person from their friends and family. It’s like everything we know about what she’s like as a person is an inference. Like she was accepted to West Point so she was probably pretty bright. But I haven’t heard testimonies about what she was like, goals, values, etc etc. Anyone?
I agree. Definitely would like to hear someone get into the nitty gritty. All that needs to be explored.
There has been plenty spoken about her personality from people who knew her, including family, her boyfriend’s mother, friends, etc. I don’t know why people keep saying this kind of stuff. This case is very well known, famous even. It has been on mainstream tv shows, there’s Facebook pages, Fred spoke on numerous new segments, etc. and so many people talked about who Maura was/is.
Do we have a copy of the mapquest directions that were found that would explain why she’s on route 112?
There are phones in every dorm
Room, in common areas-cafeteria, gym, cafés etc
Your speaking about a person who is clear headed, lucid and familiar with the area-she wasn’t any of those things. Also, Mapquest or “thinking” you know the way somewhere while drinking, possibly having a mental health crisis in the dark would make it likely she got lost or took a road “she thought” was the right way and got turned around etc
Has anyone ever considered the possibility that a deer unexpectedly darted out in front of Maura's car, and she tried to avoid hitting the deer, but clipped it anyway. That would explain the thud that the neighbors heard. After the collision the deer ran off. That would explain the kind of damage her car sustained, and would deploy the airbags.
I'm going to explain the crash. Her car had been stalling that's why they were looking for a new one. Now, when she went around the corner, she slowed to make it and the car stalled, she hit the gas and sped forward. Remember, the black box reported two hits in succession. She hit the gas which caused her to hit a ditch, waking up system and hit a stump, causing airbag deployment. This forced her vehicle southwest. She was still able to move it to the westbound direction in the east bound lane. Her car stalled again. She attempted to restart but with that car, you have to take o it the key to restart, she probably was very stressed and confused and didn't think to take it out to restart and assumed she was stalled out, went and shoved rag in tailpipe to attempt another start, didn't work. Saw Butch declined help, locked up and went down Bradley hill rd where someone picked her up and killed her.
I think Maura did not even go into Woodsville, but she got over on highway 10, off of highway 91. She then decided to turn onto 116, what if she realized that and then turned onto 112 and was trying to work her way back to 302.... Who ever was driving that Saturn, was trying to avoid being noticed by the LE.
She could have already been to her destination within the missing hour?... Maybe something unexpected happened at this original destination that forced her to continue on her journey (as she had already set it up to leave UMASS for a short time and couldn't turn back).
I've had a similar thought. Did Maura have a destination in NH and things went awry or it wasn't available like she thought? Did she have a reason for the trip and once this was fulfilled she was actually heading to UMASS or VT and not away from those locations? How do we know which direction Maura was coming from for certain?
@@DoctorColonelGonzo right, which direction
Has anyone researched her coming from the other direction to see if that fits any logical scenario?
@@Lia2222 There's probably been some reddit discussions. Just another thing to add to the list of unconfirmed facts in this case IMO. It's tough to theorize a scenario that includes Maura leaving UMASS so late in the day. It' doesn't really fit into the whole "leaving to clear her head" idea. I feel like if that was the case she would've left earlier or waited until the next day. I'm starting to think that whatever happened to Maura began in either the missing hour of time or even as far back as UMASS.
@@DoctorColonelGonzo great point
This case is crystal clear a mirror. Exactly like the California case.
Hers was only one po.po. that did the job.
What if she were picked up by the cop? It seems unlikely but what if he reported she was gone when he arrived but she wasn’t?
I'm nothing like Maura but man my sense of direction is really, really bad and in 2004 before google maps could help me out I got lost all the time lol
What's up with the 20+ ads on the video? Is that RUclips or you guys...?
I think that will be RUclips.
Fast forward with bout 8seconds to go let it finish press replay= no ads
Sorry, we're trying to figure it out.
@@MissingCSM all good ✌️
Maura knew exactly what she was doing and where she was going. She called her place of work and college to notify them she would be gone. She made calls to try and find a place to stay. She took the insurance forms with her and her school books and she bought some alcohol as she knew that where ever she was going to she would be drinking most likely with someone she was meeting. She called her cell to check for messages and left a message for Bill. By definition her actions do not fall in place with someone in a fugue state. Maura definitely had a reason to be in NH. She had to pay her ticket before she could register a car in her name. Massachusetts is one of 5 states that does not participate in the Driver License compact so she was able to drive in Mass. but not able to register a car in her own name and we know that Fred was buying her a car and she needed to get this paid. Maura was taking a big chance driving there but she was traveling on a back road for reasons we don't know but maybe because she thought it less likely to get pulled over. As far as when and where she was going to pay her fine we don't know but she had all week if we go by what she had told her school. Maura had some cash on her and while I don't know how much her fine was I'm guessing she didn't have enough money to pay it and get a room. Someone else would most likely be taking care of that. Maura would not be calling this person from her phone since the phone was in Bill's moms name. It's quite possible Maura had another phone that no one else was aware of. We also don't know if she emailed this person before she left. She could have had a Hotmail account for example. Unless someone knew her password there would be no way of knowing who she may have emailed before she left. Maura was wreck less at times but she was also a smart girl with great determination. It seems that when Maura was set on doing something little could stop her. I think people need to stop trying to figure out why she was there and focus more on what happened to her after she walked away. Keeping it simple I think it the best way to look into her disappearance. I don't think she was leaving to start a new life and I don't think she was driving in tandem with anyone although I do think she was meeting with someone at some point and this could be another reason why she was on that road. Personally I think she knocked on the wrong door for help after she realized she wouldn't get very far with it being cold and not having any cell phone service. She also had to realize that the police would eventually show up which is all the more reason to get to a phone and call someone. As an aside I think the Londonderry ping could have been the person she was meeting trying to get in touch with her and if she did possibly have two phones this person may have called both as they may have been worried enough at that point to call her other cell phone when she didn't answer the other. Of course this is just speculation on my part.
Fantastic episode...I've always thought something random must have occurred, but I do believe that one day she will be found. As far as a disassociative fugue, it may be reaching a bit...stressful circumstances and severe anxiety with possible depression, in my opinion most likely.
Unlikely things do happen, no mystery to that. Facts don’t contradict she was picked up. Or a tandem driver came back to look for her. Her life/circumstances leading up to her disappearance doesn’t seem that mysterious/complicated. She was 21, ofcourse you can dig up drama.
If she is drinking and driving wouldn’t it be possible that she was avoiding main roads or highways to avoid police?
Remember this is an individual who is smart, but doesn't have a lot of common sense, hence all the wrecks she's had
I agree with him. I've been traveling up in the area since birth and never even heard of Haverhill NH until Maura. Furthest I've been down 112 in that direction is to the tourist attraction the Lost River. I imagine the same was true for Maura and most MA tourist. Seems probable her original destination was VT because of the MapQuest directions and the GOSTOWE call. Something re-routed her but what??
Her mental state could explain a lot and we really know nothing about Maura except for the abbreviated version of her personal life that's been made public. How serious was the break down at work? Could it have been indicative of an underline issue that triggered this spontaneous trip and could it explain some of her erratic behavior prior to her disappearance? I've seen plenty of Disappeared episodes with people in the throes of an episode that take off either to be found dead or not at all. There's two that I can think of that ended up with the people running off into the woods.
If this is true in Maura's case then her not having a known destination kind of makes sense. All bets are off in terms of where she ended up and I would think further down the road in the woods would need to be hit harder. I could also see her family not wanting to share this info out of fear that interest may wain in the case if there is no great mystery associated with her disappearance.
I've come to the conclusion that at least the possibility exists, if Maura was met with foul-play, it could've happened long before the accident site. Meaning she was either never there or wasn't alone. The investigator he referenced also believed that Butch saw what happened to Maura that night and may have been intimated by this person. If this is true then the following are possible:
1. Maura was abducted or car-jacked long before accident site perhaps as far back as MA and never made it to Haverhill: If the accident was staged I would guess it was by someone that knew her because of the rag in the tail pipe. It's possible that Fred did tell Maura to try that in case of an emergency and coincidentally the person staging did the same thing to make it look like a suicide attempt or to look like someone tried to stall out her car. It also may be true that this person knew Maura well enough to know that her father told her this.
2. Maura was not alone at the crash site and Faith did see a man smoking a cigarette: The investigator referenced in this episode also reported that Faith maintained her account in a follow up interview and it was Fred NOT her that came up with the cellphone charger theory. If Butch saw what happened to Maura could that have been the man smoking a cigarette? Keep in mind Butch initially referred to the driver as "he" in the 911 transcripts of his call. Was this an error or the mother of all Freudian slips??
She had handwritten directions in her car 3 rds. And none were the one she was on, it is thought she missed a 90degree turn at one point and she had to take a horizontal route to get back to her original rt and THATS the rd she had her accident on
The question is, what was she doing there? Types, that's a huge question, but also what was she doing drinking, (we assume), while driving an old unreliable car in the freezing cold, at night, on a road to nowhere, basically. But also, don't forget, if you listen to the Tim Westman episode where Tim and Lance are there with John Smith, Tim Westman says that she accelerated right before the crash. So that to me either means that she crashed on purpose, or she was accelerating around a corner? I don't know the site, so I'm not sure about that. But how did she even have the accident, nevermind how the car got turned around, if the roads were dry? Very strange.
Great episode ! 💙 #BlueForMauraMurray
Yes, why would anyone stage the accident right there in the neighborhood instead of somewhere more desolate?
She may of hit back of atwwod bus back up the 112 rd ( what was atwoods route) she may of got irritated she got stuck behind a bus and hit it tryin to pass.....and tried the run after , came to that corner slowed down in that 3 cylinder bomb and it stalled like her dad thinks, he knew the car in and out,...so it stalls she hits a snow bank that would trigger air bags, ...and westman said over and over he heard acceleration before thump, when a bomb car starts to sputter into a stall, instinct is to give it gas to try and feed it to stay firing, but it didnt work so the big Rev rev westman heard was just that, ..then here comes atwood right behind her, ..and then whatever happened happened..vanished in the blink of a eye...i dont know its all opinion...too me most logical is cop abduction
The accident scene don’t make sense, I believe it happened elsewhere, I also believe Maura was murdered and the scene was set. I hope the family get answers sometime, I doubt it though, if it’s a local, they may never know, it’s very isolated and plenty of places to hide a body
But what about the neighbors? They didn't witness any staging. Also criminals usually pick lonely areas with no witnessing neighbors to worry about.
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx They may have known of the jurisdictional problem it would create. Local police could not search East until the state police showed up buying more time for a potential get away if the preparator needed to go that direction. It's also possible that's as far as the car could make it with the damage from an earlier crash. When Butch showed up they fled.
As for the neighbors, Butch was given 2 polygraphs, John Marotte reported the car may have been backed up, Faith saw a man smoking a cigarette. It's possible they didn't know the car was being staged.
@@DoctorColonelGonzo "They"? As far as we know it was only Maura at the crash site. Everything else are baseless theories.
But your theory has a big problem: IF the purpose of staging a crash was to buy time. Then it would have been better just to park and abandon the car somewhere else and make everything look normal. It would have taken days or weeks before people call the police about a suspicious car. Crashing a car in a neighborhood is the worst thing criminals would do since police would be called immediately.
The staging theory makes no sense. I didn't serve any practical purpose and it would have been unnecessarily risky.
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx I think you said it yourself "As far as we know" it was only Maura at the crash site. Butch was given 2 polygraphs and his account is the only thing that puts Maura at the Saturn. I don't take his statements as gospel especially when the other eye witness reports seeing the exact opposite of what he saw. "man smoking a cigarette"
I only point out staging is possible. To your other point, I think the car could have been en-route to the type of location you described and either stalled out from earlier damage or the preparator crashed the car as people presumed Maura did.
@@DoctorColonelGonzo Yes, "as far as we know" it was only Maura. There is more evidence pointing at Maura being the driver than she not being the driver.
And Faith Westman later corrected herself, she never knew if she saw a man or a woman, she saw a shadowy figure, more than 50 feet away, in a dark night, and she just assumed it was a man, but she didn't know. She never approached the crash scene. At least Atwood actually stopped at the crash and talked to the driver.
Do we even know if the damage to Mauras car was done on the day that she vanished ?
We don't.
So if it was from a pay phone, which pay phone? That would still be information and could narrow down who the call came from
Is it possible she was where she was because she was on the way to some DMV NH government building to take care of her license?
Then it was out of the way and from there she got lost or headed in the wrong direction? That’s a theory I think could explain why she was where she was.
In the dark, exhausted and likely drinking.. she likely missed her exit.. Fred said multiple times that she likely was lost - missed her exit. Or..perhaps she - decided to turn back to UM - needed gas, got off the highway- then she headed in the wrong direction- it’s confusing and easy to get turned around when you try to use Mapquest directions backwards - it has happened to me- especially when you get anxious- and if you aren’t where you think you are the directions become useless.
I think she stopped to eat, or went to a bar or something and someone started talking to her and either she was creeped out, or they invited her to a party or something. She left, thinking that would be the end of it, or set out to follow this person to the party location. Along the way, a number of things could've happened: she got into the accident and the person she was following noticed and went back to pick her up, and something nefarious occurred. Or they left her and something nefarious occurred. Or, they followed HER and either ran her off the road, or she was nervous trying to lose them and she crashed. Knowing there were houses around, the person waited to see what she would do and then caught up with her.
I agree she probably encountered a local. I think the guest in this episode was getting really warm about what actually happened towards the end. For me it comes down to did the accident occur at that corner or not? Given her driving history I think it's at least possible Maura hit a car earlier and this is a case of road rage that escalated, or an impulsive dirt bag that took advantage of an opportunity that literally crashed right into them. This person or perhaps a passenger was the one ditching the Saturn, and Butch Atwood lied about a female at the car because he was intimidated by this perpetrator.
The random event @41: that seems the most plausible. Where???? did it start.
There is nothing wrong with looking back at UMASS. Absolutely.
So when more Murray's talking about sister Wasn't she in a sorority. If so she would be talking about her sister. I can't find anywhere that says she was or wasn't in a sorority..
That's people stretching the facts. She was talking about her biological sister. Her sister herself confirmed she talked to her that night. There is no sorority conspiracy.
I've said AIM messenger multiple times. Thats a big possibility.
If it wasn't check in 2004, then it's too late, it's all gone.
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx yep....horrible investigation
I've heard that she may have been going to a campground that she was familiar with. I think Jigger Johnson is the name, or something like this. Was this anywhere near here?
In 20 degree February northern New Hampshire?????
Only expressing what I had read, that she knew the area because she had visited a campground near there a few months prior. Maybe she wasnt going there exactly, but there was speculation that this is how she knew this area. Maybe that's not accurate but that's why I asked.
Some campgrounds have cabins...
Yes, the campground is relatively near the crash site. The 112 road leads to the White Mountains and the campground. The place is closed in winter season so she would have had to enter illegally and try to avoid any park ranger. Possible? Yes, in theory. I don't rule it out since we don't know what were her plans.
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx But what's she gonna do there John? It's hypothermia inducingly cold, there's Literally Nothing more at those campgrounds than an unheated bathroom which would be a poor shelter, gravel lots with Nothing, no lights, maybe a trash bin. I mean nothing. But it's possible, they should scan the soil around there to rule it out!
And still upset on Monday morning in the phone call to Erin O'Neil.
I think she's in the forest. Everyone seems to be searching around the crash site, rather than the forest close to the store down the street. A passing local woman said she saw her down the street after the accident and the bus diver said she was shivering. She wasn't dressed for the weather, and also probably she didn't have boots. People who have consumed alcohol are more susceptible to hypothermia. There were snowbanks along the road, that would have been difficult to walk through and tree stands often have less snow under them, and will also block some wind. I think at least partway she tried to take a shortcut through the forest. Also if she was kidnapped it's odd her credit card didn't turn up, as found by a vagrant, thrown away somewhere, or being used. I just have the feeling her wallet and phone are still with her. I think she froze and is in the forest. Also if she was abducted victims often leave clues for searchers like throw a shoe or ID out the window and none was found and nothing like her backpack was found later. The trail ending in the road is consistent with crossing the street, because the store (Way Station) was on the other side. Also dogs can easily lose the trail of scent when it's cold and there is snow. If it hasn't been done, searching the forest onm both sides of the road further down where the witness claims to have seen her might be worth a try.
That's what a I say. The truth is that people have died accidentally and their remains have been found many years later even in areas that supposedly were searched before. So we can't rule out she succumbing to the elements. But some people prefers the conspiracy theories.
@@JohnSmith-cj9cx Exactly. I also thought of another thing that doesn't make sense. If she wouldn't go up to stranger's houses for help why would she get in a strange car?
Wow one of the most compelling episodes ever! This guy is right the pieces aren't adding up bc we don't have the right information. The only person who has been credible from the beginning was Witness B who always stated the car didn't have damage
baffled by how maura crashed her car. why are they baffled. she was driving her car while drunk on alcohol. its obvious what happened next.
Exactly....
Come on... a local dirtbag does harm to her and then stages this huge ordeal? What kind of kidnapper stages an accident after kidnapping someone? They kidnap someone and you never see or hear from them. What’s the point of staging an accident? This seems like total craziness to me.
Exactly! That's what I say. There would be no point on staging an accident. Plus it would be too risky because staging a complicated scene takes time.
Wow, is this the real John Smith? Respect for you sir! There are some real crazies on here with ridiculous theories.
@@johnlanton9363 Sorry but that's a different John Smith. His RUclips Channel is "Truth Seeker Investigations". I tried to add my middle name or a nickname to avoid confusion but I couldn't. As for the ridiculous theories, you are absolutely right. I have read in YT, FB groups and Reddit some theories that are just insane
All good, thanks for the compliment on my comment. Some of these conspiracy theories they’ve started to entertain, like the crazy guy who thinks Butch Atwood killed Maura is ridiculous.
Sometimes I understand why Tim and lance want to dig into really crazy theories because they want to keep the channel going and that’s why they don’t “subscribe to any one theory.”
But at one point it’s pretty obvious- she either was harmed by a stranger or by Billy.
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Best episode you've had in a LONG LONG TIME. You guys are so so close! Hmmm someone she knew online who lived in the area WHO COULD THAT BE!? My guess is it will take 100 more episodes and you'll get to him....... Fingers CROSSED!
nutz
Really good episode though.