The best way to heat water in a camper van
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- HOW TO Free unlimited Hot Water in your camper van using the heat from the engine is made real simple using a calorifier plus a engine pre heater and is potentially the best way to heat water in a camper van
Diesel Engine preheater amzn.to/48WOhbV
Link for the Heater from Aliexpress s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dlt...
Bobil Vans where the cheapest SureCal Calorifier dealer i could find links below
Bobil Vans Calorifier Hybrid Kit
www.bobilvans.co.uk/product-p...
www.bobilvans.co.uk/product-p...
Everything i use in my camper van you will find here in my Amazon Store www.amazon.co.uk/shop/melsvan...
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00:00 Intro
00:22 Using a calorifier in a camper van
01:53 Using an engine preheater with a calorifier
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Diesel Engine preheater amzn.to/48WOhbV
Link for the Heater from Aliexpress s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DltLCLj
Bobil Vans where the cheapest SureCal Calorifier dealer i could find links below
Bobil Vans Calorifier Hybrid Kit
www.bobilvans.co.uk/product-page/new-calorifier-hybrid-kit
www.bobilvans.co.uk/product-page/10-litre-surecal-calorifier
Everything i use in my camper van you will find here in my Amazon Store www.amazon.co.uk/shop/melsvanworld
this is an affiliate link so every time you make a purchase i make a small commission good news it doesn't cost you any extra but it helps me to continue to make these videos.
thank you.
Beck's Channel www.youtube.com/@SACREDTRAVELLER
Just a bit of ally sheet as an angled deflector plate on the front end of that calorifier will do wonders for the life of the connections coming out of it.
Yeah great idea 👍
I actually don't think you used the word "calorifier" enough ! 😂😂
What a calorifier??
@@tomorichard May I suggest you watch the video??
You need to edit this for a short video just with the word “calorifier” must be a good 50 times😂
I have already forgot what it is
My favourite saying ‘why make something easy when you can make it hard’ 😅😅😅
Haha 🤓👍
What about making a sump guard type thing that attaches to the rails with a sloping upwards part to protect the front of the water heater that has all the gubbins attached?
Great idea 🤓👍
Mel you need to put lock nuts on the threaded rods and put sum rubber packing on top to stop tank rubbing
Good idea John. I’d also reduce the length of the threaded rod for ground cover.
I have cut the rods now and you’re right a little rubber would be good 👍
Mel just looked up the first link for calorifier and it asked what size level sensor any idea what that is ?
The amount I have learnt through your channel is crazy. Thanks Mel for all the videos you do. I’ve managed to convert my own van and gone full time all thanks to you. 👍🏻 if I ever see you about the beers will be on me 👍🏻
Fantastic! I’m so happy I have managed to make a difference to you I’ll be at the van life festival this year I’ll gladly have a beer with you 🍻🤓👍
@@BigVanSmallWorld I’m hoping to make the van life festival. If I do I would love to show you round and how you inspired me. Great stuff your videos are and they make more of an impact than you realise. Be great to have a beer 👍🏻
Have you thought of using plastidip rubber paint to seal the electrics. I dip electronic circuit boards in it to totally seal them from water. Steve
Interesting thank you 🙏
Great video, I would certainly think you should wrap some aluminium checker plate around that calorifier, save it from a bouncing stone.
Great idea thank you 👍🤓👍
That 'shut the whistling up in the background - edit' 👌
Yeah we had some rite knobs in the barn that thought it was funny to try making my life difficult but they are history and history m still here 👍😂👍
it may be worth fitting a splash guard in front of your calorifier to protect it from road debris
Yeah exactly what I was thinking too thanks 👍🤓👍
I would seriously consider the practicality of having the calorifier underneath the van - the airflow over the unit when mobile will increase heat loss considerably - more importantly it will be nigh on impossible to winterise the installation.
Given the space you have I would find room to have what is a great resource, protected within the vehicle.
Thanks hopefully I won’t be in the uk next winter so should not be a problem
@@BigVanSmallWorld It does get cold in Southern Europe too ! - If I was you , and I'm not - I would drop an insulated " well " into the floor and fit the calorifier into that.
Given the nature of the floor construction in the Vario this shouldn't be too difficult - it would be a shame to limit your horizons just to warmer areas.
I doubt any winterising is needed. the tank is well insulated to keep hot water in. it will keep cold temperatures out for sure
@@zack9633agreed ❤
@@zack9633 A flask of hot water stays warmer for longer outside if wrapped in a woollen jumper (ex site worker) so for efficiency reasons Frazer is correct.
In your situation though, you may not be so concerned about efficiency but still...'Every little helps' 💪🐕🚐👊
Damn , and there I was waiting for a soaking event that didn't happen , well done Mel
Sorry about that 😂👍
That is a good idea to include the pre-heater within the system in case you visit Scandinavia etc.
What are the additional connections on the calorifier? Are they for a secondary heating element that you could take into the van and create a heated floor with?
Yes, 👍
Interesting. If I ever do another van I'd definitely have the pre-heater as I quite fancy doing an arctic trip eventually but I never considered adding a calorifier to take advantage of that loop and have hot water. Hmm.
Go for it!
Mel, may I ask what you do/did for a living? You are extremely thorough and knowledgeable. You explain everything with such ease and clarity making it all so understandable! When I watch other van build channels after a couple of minutes, my brain goes "ping!" And switches off, then all I hear after that is "blah, blah, blah!!"...😂
Thank you for the compliment really appreciated. I have worked in mainly engineering and mechanics all my life even had my own injection moulding company once 🤓👍
@@BigVanSmallWorld Ahh! Thought it must have been something along those lines!! The other half's tools of the trade are a hammer and a bag of swear words!! 🤣
Very entertaining and informative Mel. I would be cable tieing those spare pipes under the bonnet. They are one of those things that you know you kept but when the stress is high you’ll be searching high and low for them. After all that is one seriously spacious engine bay.
Wow great minds think alike that is exactly what I’m going to do 👍🤓👍
Great video Mel , would recommend you cut down threaded bar if you Havant already
Also find a cover to cover the water tank or something to protect it from rd splash 😊
I’m working on it and yes I’ve cut them off
There is a weird dichotomy between having SOME redundancy in a system.. and the realization that each redundant system adds complication that might be a liability itself when traveling to remote places. A “Bush” or “Bodger” fix might need to bypass all the redundant addons. Personally, I rarely have travelled to someplace so isolated that a simple repair wasn’t possible .. but I have seen someone else stranded by the high-tech in their vehicle.. modern Sprinters, Transits.. BMW and KTM adventure bikes have that issue as well.
In North America, the salt used for ice control is very corrosive to everything under a vehicle .. it gets everywhere as a fine vapor. It will damage Everything installed on the undercarriage. So my calorifier is an Isotemp installed inside the living space.
I did find this video to be interesting, informative and entertaining.. Good on you!
Thank you for taking the time to write and keeping it positive really appreciate it 👍🍻
Very interesting Mel love it
Thanks for explaining this and expanding my knowledge
My pleasure!
Coming along nicely mel,dont forget them locking nuts on the all tread under the unistrut 😊
Wicked vlog mate!
Brilliant video Mel - incredibly educational! Keep them coming!
Thank you! Will do!
Great video buddy😊
Learning loads from you 😊
Great thing to have fitted to your camper ❤
Glad you enjoyed it😁👍
Thank you Mel, that was super informative, really enjoyed.
Glad it was helpful! For the positive feedback really appreciated it 👍🤓👍
Another top video Mel.. very entertaining and extremely informative 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
@BigVanSmallWorld hey Mel, great info on lots of options, always appreciated. Could you show a little how to video on using the copper brake tubing instead of nylon? I imagine you have to flare the ends and use some kind of transition material from the appliance barbs?
Thanks!
Just fnished a 12 hour shift and there is no chance I will ever fit a choloro whatsit, but Apart from zoning out and as ever finding your content very interesting I now have the word 'preeter heater' stuck in my head. time for bed me thinks. Thanks for the informative and extremely complicated vid.
You are a genius Mel you make everything look so easy. Keep up the great work on this channel.
Thanks so much 😊
Well Mel, one of the best videos I've seen. Very informative indeed, looking forward to this build for sure. Well done.
Much appreciated!👍🤓👍
Hats off to you Mel ❤ great job
Thank you ☺️
I'm loving the build video's and i love how your explaining what your doing and why your doing it that way Mel keep the good video's coming 👍👍
Thank you that’s really kind of you to say
Great vlog Mel 👍
Great job 👏 👍
Be safe
Thank you! You too!
Loving alllll this build so much ❤ thanks for sharing Mel 😊
One small question will it be ok out in the elements.. getting wet/muddy underneath?
Thank you!! 😊
Another excellent video Mel! Alas, you are teasing me with your Vario build....my dream van that will remain a dream. The calorifier system is a superb idea and something I will recommend to folk starting out on their build however, I have spent a lot of time and money on my lpg system so it'll be staying put. The engine preheater will be something that I will now consider seriously, if only to help reduce engine wear during cold starting. Good to see lots of mechanical stuff Mel 👍
Thank you 🙏
Great content loved it
Thank you that’s very kind of you to say 👍🤓👍
Another great video Mel, well done
Thank you 😁
Been running this method in myself build camper for last ten years, been working perfectly with a shower and sink set up. Next build with have excatly the same. Great video
Good stuff!🤓👍
Awesome job Mel ,a tip here ,I saw were you were draining the coolant the leaf pivot hanger ,these are critical on many of the 508 /608 Mercedes range ,there load bearing and if the same as the early versions ,just underneath there should be a tiny slit ,this is for draining excess moisture etc ,keep these cleaned out with a small screwdriver and squirt WD or any lubricant ,and don't forget to grease the kingpins .👍👍👍
Thanks for the info👍🤓👍🍻
Use to have a simple version of that in my ice cream van to wash my hands with warm water. Great video Mel 👊👊
always wondered how the ice cream man kept clean and now I know thanks 🤓👍
I have the 22 ltr in my current lorry and I’m fitting the same in my new lorry it’s an awesome set up
Mel, far from me to think I have a better idea than you, but have you considered using a second nut to lock those holding the calorifier? I'd hate to see your calorifier on the middle of lane 1 of the M5 🤣🤣 Also, I did need to go for a pee during your draining of the coolant. Us old geezers..... 😇
Hahaha 🤣
Great video wonderfully explained. You showing how to do something I never knew was possible in a vehicle. I was a heating engineer in years past and was involved in connecting large "domestic" hot water systems to waste heat generated by freezer systems in large plant rooms in supermarkets, one hot water cylinder preheating a second cylinder. It worked really well lifting the temperature from around 15 degrees to around 45 degrees with huge savings on the amount of gas used to heat a cylinder from cold. However...the down side was a cylinder of preheated mainly warm water was a haven for bacteria, not something you need to worry about here with your indirect dual systems. Can't wait for the next episode.
Mel that was AMAZING!! Such a thoroughly indulgent hour or so learning so much - thank you 😎
I’m keen to fit an engine pre-heater to my Citroen Relay - is it possible to control one using an afterburner?
Absolutely brilliant mate can I be the one to say can you make a sort of mudguard over the pipes on the end of the unit underneath so stones and rocks don't fly up and smash the plastic parts
Yeah that’s a great point thank you 👍
@@BigVanSmallWorldgo for a full box so you can also insulate it.
Well done Mel 👍 another job ticked of thr list
Thanks 👍
Hi mel, just imagine trying to mess about with an engine bay and NO ROOM !!!!! Im doing that a job that would have taken 3 hours on a jellybean has taken me two day on a fiesta,thank god ive no hair because i would definetly be bald by now !!! 😂😂😂
....mel move the exhaust from wheel which will kick up mud !
Hi Mel
I'm totally invested in watching your build you've got me hooked
Very interesting to see how the calorifier and pre heat works and looks like the perfect set up
Eager to see your proposed van layout .... a worktop scribble of your floor plan will be suffient lol I think we're all dying to know!
All the best with your new project 👍
Thank you 🙏
Hi there Mel, What a Brilliant Video. Much appreciated too for your shared time with us.
If ever I got to wanting one of these Calorifier’s this video for sure will play it’s part in fitting one into my own Vario. Thank You very much. One little niggle in line of respect for your good self, Consider fully encasing your own calorifier for the protection of any unwanted elements and possibly 25’mm insulate the whole inner casing for the longevity of your calorifier
Good Luck my friend Steve from Manchester.
Hi Steve yes I’m going to box it in 👍🤓👍
To all you bright sparks, I'm sure installing inside was considered by Mel, it would be easy to winterise it and protect from damage if required.
Correct 👍 🤓👍
One thing is for sure, Mel, if ever I needed to fit a system like yours, you provided the perfect instruction video to follow to do it. Good job and great video. Much respect 🙏- Kenny
Thank you that’s very kind of you to say 🤓👍
Greta thumburg is going to be well pleased with you,all diesel ,"how dare you" 😂
It won't be long before Diesel comes from renewable sources just as Rudolf Diesel intended & it won't displease Greta.
She probably has one in her yacht..
Don't worry about her she will use more air miles with travelling with companions as well in one week than you do with your van for year
Great options there , love my bobil. Why didn't you use a thermo top?
Hi Mel great video thanks ! Could you change the feed to the pre heater ( copper pipe ) to run behind exhaust against bulkhead, creating a drip loop and be neater and safer ? love the lower under vehicle install of the calorifier
Great idea!
Great video I’m now thinking could I get one to work with a recirculating shower
Potentially
A interesting product🤙essentially a mini indirect emersion heater?
Loving your Vario build
GDay buddy thank you 👍🇦🇺👍
GDay buddy thank you 👍🇦🇺
Hello Mel, I love your world ❤❤❤❤
Thank you 😘
Proud of u Mel. I'm intrigued. Although I'm not gonna build another van myself. I find your vids fascinating to watch. . If ever u come to kidderminster. Give me a shout. I will buy u a meal. Phil
Oh thank you that’s very kind of you 🍻
Very cool.
Thank you 🙏
Hi mate just a thought, external pipe installation would have been better, we use it on boilers .
See how it goes .
Top install what you’ve done there 👍🏻
Thanks for the tip 👍
Hi Mel, fairplay that's a great job, all bases covered for hot water,... just thinking, and apologies if you had in mind already but you could probably box the caloifier in with some alu or stainless sheet to shield valves and connbox from grit and salt spray from road, also autoterm do some silicone coated heatshield for 24mm exhaust pipe, for engine bay and boats, slips over the pipe like sock, works very well, Bobils prob have it.
Great tip! Thanks 🙏
Similar setup to my kit Mel, I have a big tank out of a yacht!
Some things I planned to do, one was to ensure the tank of cold water doesn't act as a 'cooler' to a cold engine. Think of it, to get hot air in the cab you will have to get the tank up to temperature as well meaning you may not get hot air to demist your screen for quite a while? My solution is a inline thermostat, Ridex make one for £12, as soon as the water in the engine is at 80 degrees it opens to the tank, just make sure the engine thermostat is hotter then the inline thermostat and you will get hotter water for your tank before the vans radiator gets the hot water. Hope that makes sense!
I advise against fitting this under your van as others have suggested, keep it in the heated van is my advice.
No jokes from me today!
😮
😅
👍🇬🇧
if you run the engine heater for 20 mins the water in the calorifier will be at engine running temp sowhenyou start your engine it wont take long for it to reach opperating temp
Thanks
Thank you so very much that’s really kind of you 🤓🍻👍
that van is gonna be a total machine !! can’t wait to see it finished and on some adventures,have you got a finish date in mind ?
Thank you I’m not rushing it lol 👍🤓👍
Excellent video. I like the introduction of the engine pre heater. might get one of these. the link for the heater shows a different one, I was just wondering what the extra two pipe fittings are (10 and 2 o'clock orientation, I had a 15 litre calorifier in my last van, it was enough to shower two people easy. you will have plenty of free hot water, I also found out that using the engine cooling system while driving to heat the water is much faster than 12 volts and 240 volts elements. Thank you
Hi Zack that’s great to know thank you 🙏 my calorifire has two coils I didn’t go into this as I wanted to keep it simple as possible for people to follow along 👍
Ace video Mel 👍
That was a great video Mel where do you take the electric power from
Thank you I use bluetti
Wow you are one clever man.
Thank you ☺️
That was great fun, and I didn't get my hands dirty even once. Its a super idea and a van that big can easily accommodate it. Will you be insulating the tank as well to save heat through the colder months? 👋
Glad you enjoyed it!
I recon you should swap the nut under the Uni-Strut for locking nuts or use some thread lock. Wandering nuts could get you in bother...
exhaust looks like its pointing up a bit apart from that i like lol
Hi. Great video Mel, very informative! Im a beginner about to embark on a self build camper conversion so am trying to soak up all of the info I can & your video helped a great deal 👍 Can you tell me why you went for a dual voltage calorifier, rather than just a 240v only please? (I am trying to learn so sorry if it's a dumb question).
I plan on being off-grid 95% of the time & would like to use a 22 litre Surecal calorifier. I would like to heat my water in the van via 3 options: the vehicles engine, via a diesel heater & very occasionally via hook up. I plan on using the Bobil Vans Hybrid Kit too (heat exchanger, diverter, Smart controller etc), so what voltage calorifier would you recommend that I would need Mel? Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated!Looking forward to the next video, I am learning a lot from you, thanks Mel, good job!l regards Tracey 😊
Hi thank you for your support really appreciated I think your best talking to Bobil they are really friendly and they know stuff 👍🤓👍
That looks a brilliant system Mel. As you said. Why don't other van builders use them.
Only apprehensiv I would have with putting all that in your van.
It is very old. Very old
Well that was definitely worth waiting for 😂😂 you had us in stitches! 😂😂 Loved the Irish " sketch", although not sure about Jess goingbinto a Yorkshire accent half way through 🤣🤣. I'm going to start calling Carol "The Admiral" (shes done some sailing) in line with you Caling Jess "The General", as while we were watching a message came through on my phone so Ilooked down at it to be told ' put that f ing phone down we watching this'! 😂. Then She had to let the dog out and says ' you can pause hat I want to see this' 😂. Anyway great video as usual, and Ive just noticed the reg on your landy TBT.....'" Tool Box Tuesday" !😁👍Great joke by the way🤣🤣. Take care Guys. Colin, Carol (The Admiral) &"Joy". 👩🦲👩🦳🐕🚐🙂👍
Fantastic video.
I am planing the exact same setup in my 508D and I just found a 22l marine heater yesterday that someone dumped.. :)
Small question: Is the pre-heater not supposed to be at the very lowest point in the system?
In the instructions for my Eberspaecher I think it says so..
I’m not sure what your instructions say but if I was you I’d follow them
Hi Mel. Great video. If I was to replicate the same ways of heating hot water as yourself using a calorifier, ie via engine, hookup/inverter 240v, 12v solar & via bobil vans diesel heater system, how would I rig up the bobil vans system to the calorifier? I understand from your video how to rig up the engine coolant to the calorfier, but not sure how I would have the bobil vans hot air water system rigged to the calorifier? Can you explain this to me please Mel? Thanks Tracey 😊
Hi Tracey if you go to there website and look at downloads you will find this hopefully this helps www.bobilvans.co.uk/_files/ugd/67186c_3e9197485d204d64b8b3460825677efa.pdf
I have a 50 litre example. in my house, fitted it into a cupboard then packed it with a quilt. You will find it will not keep the water temp for that long especially open to the wind. However they are the only cheap option for hot water but as good a target as a catalytic converter to scum bags...
G'day Mel, as always great and informative vid but may i suggest turning your calorifier tank so your inlet/outlet pipes and electrics are facing the rear of the van. If your driving on wet roads you will have water being forced onto the electricals, even though you have sealed them, or if driving on unsealed roads you will encounter rocks and stones being kicked up by the front tyres an possibly braking the plastic push in fittings
G Day buddy thank for your concern I should have mentioned in the video I’m going to box it in once it’s all up and running 👍🤓👍
@@BigVanSmallWorld You may be able to find a decent plastic water tank you can cut the top off to make it the perfect height, insulate the inside, drill out the bottom four corners to line up with those drop bolts/threaded bar and offer it up and bolt it on.
Leave the bolts on that are already there but use some pipe for 1 1/2" spacers to allow for 1 1/2" insulation, drill a couple of holes in the bottom for drainage just in case.
When offering the plastic/ABS tank up, use large washers with the nuts, or 2" x 2" steel plate with with the appropriate size hole for the threaded bar.
Easy, protective and extra insulation plus it would be lightweight Mel.
👍🐕🚐👊
Great antifreeze your using there mel aswel as the oil is the best on the market, i use to work for the company 👍👍
Oh really that’s interesting thank you 👍🤓👍
@@BigVanSmallWorld also all the oils produced are made solely from virgin oils non are a product of reblended/recycled oils ....👍👍
You don’t need to glue the electrics cover down just use ignition sealer spray on the electrics, job done!
If looks could kill when the fella started whistling 😳. Nasty mel raised his head 😂😂
Haha
10:47 can i recommend that rather than modify your calorifier you put it in an insulated box? This will still keep the salt spray etc off your electrics etc but will also have the bonus of keeping it warmer for longer (depending how much hot water you draw off).
Great idea 💡 👍
You could use butyl tape as sealant. It is easy to take off anytime and reseal with it again. It is used in boats. Good luck.
Great idea
5:50 the hot water circulating around your engine is controlled by a thermostat which usually opens at 88°C so that your "up to 85°C" _will actually_ be *_over 85°C_* when everything has warmed up & because it's a pressurized system *_can reach 120°C_* when the engine is getting towards overheating!
You will have to think *_seriously_* about what you're going to do about the steam generated in your calorifier when the engine temperature goes up!
(Limescale will also be precipitated from boiling the water).
Dont you love it when a plan comes together. Could you also use those underslung pipes carrying hot water to keep drinking water/grey water tanks from freezing?
The water in the pipes will be around 90°C when everything's balanced out which is probably ok for the waste tank (maybe smelly?) but probably not for the fresh water.
Great video as you dint do any cooking mel lol
I didn’t get time to cook anything 😑👍
Excellent video Mel. Very informative and well presented. I know the square root of f* all about building camper vans, but I didn’t think putting the calorifier under the van was a good idea (road dirt, corrosion, etc.). Did you think it would take up too much space inside the van?
Glad it was helpful!
15:49 I suspect you'll want to set that around 35°C to 40°C once you get used to it but time will tell...
Why won’t the cold water side of this not freeze up in the winter 🥶? Serious question 😊
And the feed and flow pipes will reduce the efficiency by pre chilling the feed water and cooling the outflow to wherever. Then there’s rocks thrown up at the tank and pipes? Too much of a risk especially with the massive extra space in the new van.
You will see in future videos the reasons why we’re doing everything this way
Calorifier Calorifier Calorifier 😂 I usually watch right through but not today Mel my head was burst.
Sorry to hear that
Hey Mel i've clicked your links for the surecal Calorifier but they don't look the same as yours, it looks like yours has a twin coil, there's the two in and out pipes you point to then there's 2 pipes above those then there's the cold in and hot out, love the idea
The one in my video looks different to the ones on there website but they do sell the same ones if you call Bobil vans and tell them you want the same as mine In sure they can help you there phone number is on there website
@@BigVanSmallWorld I did email them they said they sent you a single coil one, I took a pic of you demonstrating your one and sent them it they’ve not responded yet but I’ll call them Tuesday cheers Mel
@@travellingjournalist966 camperinteriors.co.uk/products/surecal-22-litre-calorifier?variant=32006951436382¤cy=GBP**wi=off**&wi=off&wi=off&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw3NyxBhBmEiwAyofDYQLxXKcsrWy36ZiyMSpzdbQB_kB7uE6Q_sADmhCn8wg306scPtBHzhoCtY8QAvD_BwE
@@BigVanSmallWorld thank you Mel most kind of you
How do you heat up the water with the heater and not heat up the engine. Ive seen heat exchanges used but then you need a separate expansion tank or do you? Are you planning on having a full hydronic system?
Bin wagons have had these for decades for the lads to have a wash.
@BigVanSmallWorld
Im going to install a similar system to my sprinter. However, i will be using an egr cooler as a heat exchanger for my diesel heater insted of the engine preheater.
Just one question why did you not just run both systems in series? So basically... out of heater matrix to engine preheater then to clarifier back to engine. It would mean only one pipe needs to be cut.
Chris
It just was easier to do it the way I did it
Are you not worried that the threaded bar is going to damage the casing thru vibration ?
How well does the engine pre-heater heat the water? Could this not be used to heat water on its own, a bit like a mini diesel powered boiler? It appears to work in the same way as the bobil vans heater but heats water instead of air? 🤔
Hi Mel quick question lol , are you fitting an expansion vessel to your hot water system
Correct 👍
Look at the size of it, water on demand which takes up about a 1 Ft sq