Finally somebody pointing out flaws! I'm kinda sick of the "influencers" in the hobby to be honest. All boards are hype, all are best value, all are flawless, until you get one and realize how many problems it has.
Definitely agree with you! Even when companies sponsor a showcase I make it a point to put it through the ringer and find what’s wrong with it so people know what they’re getting. As a result I get less prototypes to review but at least I can provide a valuable perspective
@@AndyVNguyen i completley agree with your statement about reviews. on one hand you can be grateful to get prototypes and/or sponsored units to review on the other hand you know as content creator (i hate the word influencer...) that if you do point out flaws of products you might just never get anything again which hurts content creators in the long run. i think alot of people think being a content creator is not a business but it is, and if there is alot of money in it for people they tend to not review everything objectivly because you know you dont want to bite the hand which feeds you. its hard nowadays to look for "truthful" reviews because you never know in the end til you get it yourself which is kinda ridiculous if you spend sometimes 500+ bucks for a product which needs sometimes ages to be in your hands. anyway im grateful you do the reviews you do even if it means you might not get to review certain products because youre not the "all is awesome" type. also i just noticed the spacebar sounds kinda wierd on the enovy ? ruclips.net/video/XxYgouUrKFw/видео.html like right there maybe its just me but idk man thats why i like your videos and black simons videos - minimal bullshit
@@AndyVNguyen Hi Andy I found that you use the hotswap PCB, the inconsistent also cause by the standoff, that's why when you loosen up the mounting screw, doesn't fix it. on my mode 65 with hotswap board, having same issue with inconsistent feel and sound, after removing the stand off, now is good. I think all mode hotswap pcb, by default using unnecessary standoff (CMIIW)
I appreciate the honst criticism, but let's try and see the bigger picture. Every "budget" board has its flaws. Some have bad ano, some have bad sound in some way, some are a nightmare to build and some are just a boring fckin box on wedge since it's the cheapest to produce. The Envoy is not good because its the "Unikorn killer" or however you want to title it, but because its not a box on wedge design. Of course it has it's flaws, but it also has lot's of things going for it, and if thats just the in-stock status of all parts, especially if someone manages to break their PCB. Like all the big names praised it too much, here i just see the opposite, hating on it like a cult and calling it "someone really said the truth" like no, this is just the opposite of what the big names did instead of a totally balanced review. Sorry for the rant, appreciate the honest and in the end i just wanted to say, trust your own decisions and don't let reviews of your favourite contet creator vote for you.
Thanks for the objective review, no one commented about the inconsistency in sound. It was reviewed often as if it was the next best thing since the invention of toilet paper
@@AndyVNguyen i mean it explains a lot if you look at who are spreading good words of it. literally every "big" keyboard streamers out there, mf even forbes made an article about how "good" it is, tell me the marketing team of mode isnt behind this
@@shynnsup8383 i don't know waht to tell you, the mods on the envoy sounded bad. There's not more he can do other than buy 10 envoys and review his aggregate experience, but that's unreasonable.
@@shynnsup8383 I would usually chalk it down to a "revenge" review if it's nearly 90% negativity (peek the now deleted Keychron V1 review from Consumer Tech Review). Just because a bad point is mentioned about a board and 5 other good point is brought up, doesnt mean the reviewer is a hater. Sure, you can say that he was scorned by mode and delivered a scathing review, and I'll absolutely trust this review more than reviewers that received it for free and preach that it's the next best board to buy in the guise of "all opinions are my own". At least andy has mentioned both pros and cons about the board, and he wasn't the only person to point this inconsistency in sound though - brandon taylor did point it out too but again people dismissed it. I'm all for more reviews that talks about the good, the bad, and the ugly. No board is 100% perfect to the point it'll only receive praises without criticisms. I can tell you all the flaws about highly regarded boards too like the tomo, sonnet and the F2 that I have on hand currently. they are not perfect and have some mild annoyances too.
@@scruffy1471 And if he actually did buy 10 envoys and found that some have no resonance in the same exact config, that wouldn't look good for mode's qc, wouldn't it? Haha
As a big fan of both Andy, and Alexotos(he is a big fan of mode): Not gonna lie with the cycle 7 and the neo out right now this board may be leaning more on the mid range part of the scale. Price to performance wise, they may not be consistent in terms of sound but the aesthetics can make up for it depending on the preference pf the buyer. Andy, from what I know, leans more on the sound department of the hobby, which is why I can understand his thoughts on the envoy. But imagine how chad it would be of Mode if they saw this and decided to send Andy more products to review
I’m definitely a sound guy! I’m crazy enough to desolder an entire build of something doesn’t sound just right. I know not everyone is like me of course. Mode has ghosted my DMs for a while but well see! Haha
Hi Fuji. I love the Envoy's smooth anodization finish, it's definitely a grade above my Zoom TKL, QK80 and QK60r2. I wish every anodized chassis has this kind of feel to the finish. It also doesn't seem to show any fingerprint, but that may be due to the green color I have. For gripes, I think the board has a ringing problem with switch top-out. Initially I loved how it sounded right after finishing the build, but there's something about it that stands out when I'm typing normally and trying to concentrate on work instead of the keyboard sound. But I'm actually not fully sure what that sound is. Need to try with a quieter switch when I get time.
Thanks for the feedback! It varies from plate to plate it sounds like. A fixed copper plate and alpacas didn’t have as much of an issue either. So it makes me think it is is the plate hole that’s causing it
I sincerely don't understand why people are still looking up to unikorn. I have one, and it is indeed good. But it's an old keyboard designed many years ago. The custom keyboard community has really evolved since then. So if I'am looking at unikorn now from today's perspective, it's just a "good" keyboard, not an "endgame" keyboard anymore. If now I hear people say that a keyboard is "as good as unikorn", I don't even take it as a compliment on that board. Because nowadays, being as good as unikorn just means being an average good keyboard.
Well I don't agree with you. I just recently acquired a pc unikorn and let me tell you it bangs really hard. It's definitely an endgame board. In reference I have tried over 20 + boards before getting it and for me it is really good. Maybe It's all preference but still for me the sound/feel is 10/10
Sorry Andy, I wanted to revisit this. I ordered a polycarb case and carbon fiber plate and MAN. This thing is my FAVORITE keyboard as of now. More than the Neo80, the Vega Ai03 and Bakeneko that I have. The polycarb case/carbon fiber plate is much different from the aluminum case/fr4 plate I was using. Yes there are inconsistencies on the tab/shit keys where the mounting screws are placed but that inconsistency does not bother since I barely use those keys? Anyhow I couldnt help but come back to this video and your criticism cause the alphas and spacebar sound AMAZING
I care a lot more about the feel inconsistency than the sound because most of the time I am using my keyboard, I am also wearing headphones. but I can feel the keys either way!
@@AndyVNguyen i think it comes down to judging the board with its weakest variant or something like that :/ still, not everyone has a mv7 to gaslight themselves into thinking mode's "lesser neo65" is a decent board for no-foam (im trying to print gasket that could secure the plate without using retaining screws, along with adhesive pe sheets just so it can compete with neo lol)
really a cool, collective, and objective review. by all means its one of the best boards within its price range, but i agree there are too many coping users saying its next to the best of unikorn cuz some of the streamers say so... like cmon
Newer to the hobby, but there are definitely some points I disagree with. Mainly the mention of Inconsistency with the typing feel and how you didn't notice loosing or tightening the retention bolt made any difference in the feel. While building mine I was able to fine tune using the retention points and achieved a consistent typing feel across the board very easily. Giving it just enough bounce/flex to not get buried into the chassis while typing or when pressing harder on the keys. I am using a copper plate (with boba u4t's) and the alu chassis so idk if that attributed to anything on my end tho. Will def admit that the mods sounds a little thinner around the holes and that is def a point to mention so people are well informed. Definitely still really enjoy your content tho, but I am sad that you are gonna pass on the Envoy as it is tied for favorite in my collection so far right next to my Ginkgo65.
solid review, kind of harsh on mode doubt they'll send you product LOL I did notice once I switched to a POM plate the areas around the case screws sounded much better. At the end of the day how many people are actually spamming those specific keys though. I dunno. I think for the price you really cant beat it atm in the 65% entry level range. Most boards at this price point need foam to sound good.
Lmao yeah I ain’t getting anything anymore. The price at launch was pretty solid. Right now, it still wins for instock. The cheaper boards are still group buys iirc.
Yes ok but the kihaku and unikorn are nowhere to be found. Even 2th hand on ebay not for sale so what good does it to want it and not getting it? At least mode is in stock and actually buyable
yes, being buyable is nice.. but doesn't change what it is. it's a decent sounding keyboard with inconsistent sound in some places but it is not a drop in gummy o ring mount keyboard. the sound and feel are different there are a lot of good gasket mount and drop in o ring boards that are purchasable secondhand (which is what most of the hobby is) for dirt cheap today. all the qk/owlab/cycle stuff can be purchased new
Im new to the hobby and dont know the difference between drop in o rings and gasket mounts 😅 i dont even know what any of this means. Just build my very first board and i really love it tho i forgot to buy stabilizers but it is already sounding and feeling better then anything ive ever had
I agree with you. These days there are far too many options at damn near any price point to settle for one that you're not going to be happy with. Now, obviously for those who really enjoy the modding aspect, getting a board you are mostly happy with, and then doing the work yourself to get it to where you really want it, can be a great thing, but some flaws are too big to overlook or require modding in a way that makes the board too jenk. Hell, even poor people like myself have options in our budgets, though those can be harder to figure out due to the fact that most folks aren't going to be doing too many reviews on the ultra budget options, but they are out there if you dig around....so may as well get something that you'll probably enjoy for your budget instead of settling just because you want the company to have made a good product. It's ok to admit that something fell short, that's how the good companies can learn and grow...
Hi Fuji! Honestly, I’ve only seen two people talk about the inconsistency in sound, and that is you and Brandon Taylor, and I’ve only heard of the inconsistencies in later protos that were closer to the production run. Now admittedly, I did buy the Alu ver of the Envoy. I’m sure I’ll be fine, or at least that’s my copium is telling me.
I'm scared for the alu.. because PC never pings. And if you think about it.. this is CF. which is non metallic. And the mounting, non metallic. And the case, non metallic. So how did we arrive at ping? also fuji says hi
I found that the unikorn is pretty stiff. It's not flexible at all, but it does have that o ring flex. But the envoy doesn't really come close to the sound. Also, I noticed how rattley yours was when you were comparing two boards together. Wtf
Yeah the envoy isn’t perfect. It’s good enough for the price and availability but people seem to not want to accept that. They want unikorns and kohakus to be viewed as bad keyboards
Hi Fuji :D Good vid Andy, Envoy reviews are hella lopsided. BT was the only person I saw who had any negatives to say about the board, and some of the fanbase (y'all know who you are in Alex's stream chat) were mad salty and dismissive over it. BT wasn't even lying, the board tipping cause of top row is real. Does it affect normal use? Nawh, but even with light force, any forward pressure will make it happen and it's a valid critique. And for context, I actually like my Envoy. My Envoy is also a game changer for me cause I mentally resolved myself and I'm ready to hard commit for my dream board. It's time to start praying for a win in the Kohaku raffle, and goddamn if that PolyHaku ain't a beauty!
fuji says hi back! Yeah it was so odd to just hear so much good coverage, I thought this was gonna be a home run. It's still pretty good, just not what I expected. I agree with the tipping. It's crazy that people will be dismissive if there's any criticism. When we stop criticizing these products the designers will stop innovating. There's always room for improvement and people should always be asking questions IMO The polyhaku is so niceeeeeeeeee. The RGB fish is the bees knees!
I kind of naturally stopped using my Envoy and it is mostly because of those stupid fkn screws they used to hold the plate/pcb in the case. What a terrible solution. I too have to leave the screws loose to the point they wobble in the case because otherwise the board is just way too stiff. I like Keychron levels of bounce/flex, when I can get it, and I was disappointed in the Envoy for that. They could’ve come up with a better way I think. Maybe use the 3D printed pads around the edges to snap in the pcb somehow, like those pencil eraser gaskets on some boards, I think Geon has that style right? Either way Mode is mostly great, Sonnet is one of my GOAT all time fav boards, but the Envoy was a miss for me. Oh well what’s another $250 wasted it’s not like I have 5 other boards that did me the exact same way in my guest bedroom closet lol…
Sorry I had to comment again. To be fair, Alexotos did mention that there was ping if the screws were screwed too tight on the Alu versions of the envoy. I don’t think he played around too much with the PC variant because he didn’t like the PC edition as much. I know you’re not calling people out on their reviews, just thought I’d mention it to others who might go psycho and come after the other reviewers.
Thanks for sharing. Chat definitely brought that up and I loosened it all of the way. And then took it out.. and then the sound was still there. And I realized it wasn't the screw. lol
Would you recommend the envoy65 over the zoom65v2? Trying to build my first board and have been recommended the envoy over a lot of other options but it seems like you brought up some very valid and easily evident issues with the board that most haven't mentioned.
@@AndyVNguyen Thanks for the reply but I ended up ordering a neo65 for first build. I'm in on the rainy75 preorder and looking to get the f1-8x v2 as well now though. Thanks for your honest reviews and opinions!
As another person with a preordered envoy pc I can’t notice any sort of standoff noise. But in any case this is quite disappointing to hear for what seemed like such a promising product.
Just by looking at the comment section makes me realize that many people in this hobby are so easily triggered, those fanboys for certain content creators or board companies only want to hear the things they want to hear, even the actual owner of the board is giving his honest review they still don't give a damn about it, once the review is negative, they'll just be salty about it. which is super sad. it's really nice to see someone like you to give out the honest review, so that customers won't get misled, and get to know the full picture of the product. nice vid!
THANK YOU! I disagree with one take and point out one issue on a board and people are acting as if I waged war on Taeha and Mode. I just wanted to bring to light that the board is good enough, but not as good as it was being marketed. I'm a sound guy and it missed a sound mark.
@@AndyVNguyen Sound depends on a lot of factors so prescriptive statements don't make a ton of sense. People also talk about sound differently. I don't think any of this makes the board better or worse as it is extremely subjective and depends on a lot of factors including your build and cofig. Even Alexotos addressed these claims and I quote: "I have 3 personal envoys and have built a bunch at this point including the proto and none have that issue". He also said: "I can't perceive any critical sound difference. I mentioned in a few of my streams that over tightening the screws on the envoy, mainly the all alu one, may result in some metallic sound. So just dont over tighten it!" He also provided sound tests with these messages. No offense but I rather take his word for it (and the majority of other creators and reviewers) than yours. I think the board is pretty darn good and it might be the best 65% of the year.
Great content Andy. Preference is king and “sound” is so subjective. A bunch of influencers trashed the qk75 and it’s my daily. I’m a fan of Mode but I’m skipping this board. I need a function row so I’ll save my money if the new Loop.
Mode even sent one to me to check out. It’s a really nice board. Especially the sound at the entry level. The weight is nothing special but the mounting style is innovative and it works. A bit squishy, but good enough to be a solid recommendation. It lived on my desk the whole time I had it. Really enjoyable.
Really like the objectivity you’re trying to offer, though I think Mode bringing a $200 board with this much customisation and mostly great sound is pretty great. I think getting too bent out of shape about perfect consistency in sound at this price point we might be getting overly critical of makers doing their best and delivering a good product. I can think of many many makers producing garbaggio at higher price points 🙂
@@AndyVNguyen cheers for the reply pal. I think it's both great that you highlight some of the things that aren't perfect and great they've managed to bring us this product. Always a fan of your content.
This is the only honest review of the envoy. I cannot stand mine. Built it every way imaginable, different plates, different switches, foam and no foam. The alphas sound great but modifiers are hot garbage to the point it’s unusable for me. I’m selling it.
tbh your Envoy sounds really bad. I got my Alu Envoy with Copper plate and Alpacas sounds way better. Regardless of Taeha's comment about the unikorn, just compare his board to yours it sounds completely different. Maybe PC case with cf plate is not a good combo for the Envoy.
the copper plate works better. the cf plate of theirs just sounds straight up broken here also taeha used foam. most streamers used foam. foam covers up ping
Thank you Andy for the honest review. I tried asking Alex during his stream about the sound inconsistency near the standoff and whether it happens in those other board that he built (a qc issue in production run). Unfortunately did not get an answer. Sad sad. I am wondering taking all into account, would you recommend bakaneko60 or neo65 or cycle7 if I want to get a budget board for my bf?
I haven’t gotten hands on neo65. But cycle7 for something quieter and more refined and has arrows, Bakeneko for the best sound (just lay down paper towel in case to adjust for hollowness) and best mouse space for gaming.
Hello, I have a question, i have a choice to buy one of following boards - tofu 65 2.0, mode enjoy 65 and mode sixty five. So according your video i realize that there aren't any big difference between envoy and tofu, but what about sixtyfive doest it bring much better experience than tofu and envoy, as according to the some youtubers sixtyfive is the next level board is it true? so i have a oppotunity to buy tofu for 125$ on the other hard sixtyfive costs around 300$, so doest the overpay of 150$ worhth it and i will really get next level typing expiricence?
You will not get “next level” 2x the typing experience by spending more imo. The typing experience is tofu 65 2.0 is very nice. The sound is OK. I’d probably lean towards sixty five in general if I had the budget but you could be just as happy with the tofu 65 2.0. I enjoyed my tofu60 2.0 when I used it.
At the end of the day people need to remember how subjective this hobby is. Feel sound and looks preferences are literally different for everyone. Take review videos with grains of salt not gospel. Understand the review style of the person reviewing the item and don’t buy simply based on a review I treat board reviews the same way I treat smartphone reviews. Either way thank for this one. I like you review style and the opinions you presented
So you said there are plenty other boards for the price or cheaper that are better than the Mode Envoy, but didn't mention any of them. Could you please possibly elaborate? Thanks.
@@AndyVNguyen Yes it looks really good. I got the alu olive coloured version with the walnut accent and shiny polished steel weight. The ano is immaculate. Passed on the PC though cos no funds, hahahaha. The PC looks pretty with the RGB though.
Now you really gotta get your hands on an alu envoy man. With all due respect, PC envoy sounds weak af, even with the copper plate. Though the issues you mentioned still exists on the alu version, it definitely is something special and a cut above the boards at its price point.
It’s interesting that you found that the sound was weaker in the corners. Alex posted some sounds comparisons in discord of the Korn, foundation 60% and 3 of his Envoys and I didn’t notice the sound weakening around the holes at all. I guess I’ll just have to try it out for myself when my board arrives next week.
Some people’s mic setups pick up sound differently . I use a condenser mic that hears everything as it is and i turn off all processing. All I can tell you is my ears also hear the sound issues
Alex also had a pre-production version of the board didn't he? All I know is that I have an Envoy sitting in front of me and Andy's assessment is 100% correct.
How u gonna compare the aluminum case to a pc case and wonder why it sounds different - seems to me like you came into this video just to hate it. I have seen keyboards worse then this on ur channel get a better pass than this. U took this one under the microscope found one or two flaws and made a whole 10 minute review about it. Basically it doesn’t feel like a unikorn and the sounds are inconsistent. I have no problem with the negative review but I hear so much bias in this and during the stream compared to your other reviews
Most of the review on the sound and value I s positive, sounds like you came into this video with bias. It’s just not a unikorn at all, which was a big claim that was made
@@AndyVNguyen made by one guy, this hobby is supposed to be about our own taste anyways, aren’t we all supposed to come to our own conclusions on how you like the board. This whole review just seemed like drama bait to your RUclipsrs, you are a reviewer to, we come to this video for your reviews (which I still was able to get so thanks) but you’re also a big name in the hobby, people will still take your word for things without having to mention other names, whether or not u intended it. That’s how it came out
Taeha is a bit more than one guy imo. His statement shapes a lot of people’s opinions. I normally wouldn’t have to clip the whole thing but when I first streamed this and mentioned his claim he said I was putting words in his mouth. So I just wanted to make it clear by showing his words. But the video wasn’t 100% about the person who made the statement, it was my POV as someone who owns a Korn and has envoy on hand. It’s a good enough board and I still don’t see an instock alternative. Just wanted to provide my POV to say it isn’t the only keyboard, especially if you specifically want a unikorn. It was quick.. but if you want a unikorn, it’s cheapest and easier to get a Bakeneko. It’s definitely framed to bring people in with thumbnail and title and intro.. but I review this the same. Without people claiming it was the best thing ever or 90% of the unikorn, I would not have had to go into this detail. I also don’t often review production units. When I review production, I’m way harder on it. Like the glorious GMMK pro I did a few years back. This keyboard is going to be on sale for instock so I want people to see a more honest review. At the end of the day my opinion is my opinion
What boards would you recommend over the Envoy that are available in-stock for 65-75% layout in a similar price range? Trying to do my first build and seriously considering the Envoy but I wanted a deeper more muted creamy thocky sound signature while the Envoy seems pretty bright.
it's a solid budget low end board with nice finishes. but the budget level went CRAZY in the last 6 months so envoy seems a little outdated already damn their mods are bullies? how so?
@@AndyVNguyen asked a legit question about the timing of their drops. members flamed me and mods jumped in instead of giving legitimate answers. made me lose interest in their products.
I've just got my envoy. There is a big issue with the sound of the Q key compared to the W key. The sound of the Q is so much different from the W key, though they are next to each other and in the same row. the r4 row sound is significantly different than the rest of the row. I have to say that I had a bad experience with the board.
You should take a look at the build guide and make sure that you have properly aligned the board onto the lattices. I don't have sound issues with the Q key but definitely do with the TAB and Right Shift Key and Enter Key just the same as Andy.
@@burgosmatthew There are two giant holes on the plate and the PCB for the screw used to secure the PCB. It's the design flaw. Even when I took the screw out, the sound is not improved at all.
Any other keyboards with a poly case that you recommend with similar RGB? Really love the clear frosted cases, and the price is throwing me off for this board
Hi fuji! The sound of the mods don't bother me as much, but I do wish that the sound inconsistency had been brought to my attention. It's just about the integrity, you know? With that said, you said the protos didn't have the stand-off-like things; I wonder what made them go with that implementation?
Yeah all I heard was super hype for the board and no issues. I don't know what the proto had, but the production run has no standoffs to have a proper "retention screw" design. It's proper but that big gaping hole was def an issue
I appreciate the honest thoughts, everyone has different opinions on every board so I respect you standing on your own opinion. But I have a question, how does the alphas alone compare to the unikorn? Because honestly, for me, if the alphas and space bar come pretty close to the korn, with the price and availability of the envoy, it might be worth it to me. Also what's your fav switch that you've paired with your unikorn?
Appreciate contents like this. I rarely see a content creator roast studios like you do and this is why I don't trust most content creators if all they do is rave about the product. To date, I still watch your Best Keyboard for 2022 content. Hope we see more content's like this from other creators. Hope you get more sponsorships.
I'm personally waiting for the 65/TKL Cycles If you need instock, you have to grab something from extras during the time frame it's available. As for any time instock, you gotta go with Mode.
Can’t tell if you’re just upset with the comparison to unikorn or if you don’t like the board. Seems like this was less than a review and more that you were upset with another reviewer comparing to Unikorn.
@@kaeroseonThe Envoy is a higher quality of board than the Neo65. Keep in mind the Neo 65 might be your preferece for cost/quality ratio but the Envoy is a higher quality.
@@kingmidas430true, in terms of manufacturing no doubt the envoy is better. But the neo has a similar mounting system with oring mount as a bonus and doesn’t use screws leading to a more even sound. It also has wireless if you need it. And for a similar price there is also the tofu 2.0 which I think is also slightly better than the envoy, there’s the zoom65v2 and cycle7 which aren’t as minimal but also higher value for money.
Neo65 has better anode, doesn’t have hollow mods and resonance. The Neo hasn’t been out yet when you made this comparison. Why you have the need to defend the envoy that much?
ok i want a board that is under 230, and i am cool with 65% to a 80%, (if i could choose it would be 80%) what should i get, i care about the sound and feel most but want something that looks cool, what are some good options? (i have been out of the keeb hobby for a bit and want to get back in)
I built mine on Sunday - it arrived over a week ago but I had to wait for my long pole stabilisers to arrive. I built it with fr4 + all foam, alu + no foam, and a few other configurations in between, and I feel it's a good looking keyboard, but the inconsistency in the bottom right keys (around the right shift) will cause my poor OCD ears to melt over time. Same issue top left, but less pronounced. Also left shift isn't great either for some reason - I've tried changing the stabilisers and still doesn't feel great. For me the experience has been slightly disappointing - it's a good looking board, and it mostly sounds great, but it is slightly let down due to marked inconsistency in a few locations. IMHO I prefer the sound of my Bakeneko 60 which to me sounds more consistent across the rows in comparison.
Wow so the foam doesn’t even resolve the sound inconsistencies in those areas? I didn’t have time to test it but I was leaning on Taeha’s suggestions to use a little foam. That’s disappointing. I know some people legit don’t even use right shift so it may not bother them but that is still a shame
I haven't given up yet. The latest configuration is case foam, alu plate, solid block mounts, no other foam. This is the best configuration I have tried so far. The inconsistencies seem to be masked somewhat with a harder mount. Also, I screwed the plate to the case more tightly. So in my experience the less bounce, the better the sound - but it's all subjective of course. All the same, even with a harder mounting style, it does feel quite soft when typing, which is pretty cool. My recommendation so far - the best sound for me comes with a harder / tighter mount, case foam, and no plate / PE foam. I'll keep playing with it because I am a tinkerer. I might even post a video of the different configs. @@AndyVNguyen
Hi, what was the grey keyboard that Envoy is being compared to on the sound test? It sounds so good! I'm not sure if I just missed it on the video, but I saw that it was a 65% keyboard and got me thinking that that is not the korn
Thanks for confirming to me that even with a half-plate on a Unikorn, the the board is still stiff compared to my other half-plate keyboards. I still like the typing feel of my Unikorn, especially the space bar. I am waiting for my 30A o-ring to see if I can just soften it up a bit since I don't want to compromise using a 1.2mm PCB. Don't want to change plate either since I already like the sound from a half-plate aluminum.
yeah the unikorn is NOT flexible! i was told this so much and i've tried a million builds and they all hold pretty sturdy no matter what. it's not bad at all, it's just not "flexible" like these flex plate and flex cut pcb boards. half plate alu plate is goat in korn
for whatever it’s worth, I don’t have a Unikorn, but in my bakeneko I’ve used a half plate with a SNOP 60 PCB (1.6mm) which has flex cuts above and below the alphas, and it definitely has more give. I think you definitely lose some volume vs. a non-flex cut PCB (I also have an H60 PCB for comparison, which is 1.6mm with no flex cuts), but if you wanted more give (particularly with a stiffer material half plate), that may be something worth exploring. Just be sure to be mindful of compatibility with the Unikorn daughterboard/jst placement before pulling the trigger on an aftermarket pcb.
@@AndyVNguyen I’d definitely say that’s the right call for most people, especially since the majority of the hobby probably doesn’t want to solder, and in my experience/opinion, there’s very minimal if any typing feel benefit from flex cut PCBs paired with a full plate (as you’d expect for hotswap).
@@AndyVNguyen aw, I can't believe it man, u are one of the most like entertaining keeb enthusiasts for me. People should sent more review boards for u to check out and have fun.
So close to getting mine. I’m second guessing my POM+PC envoy combo here. Imma put nixies in it because I’ve only heard PC envoys with long poles. Don’t know what you have planned on content but I’d like to see a video comparing the numerous mounting styles we have nowadays. I have seen things still being sold as tray mount from the Hibi June, all the way to geons plateless tadpole. It would be fun to see a history or thoughts on what the mounting style means to a board.
Yoo nice, glad you're sharing honest thoughts but question tho, why are we complaining about case sound when even so many sought after boards have and will continue to suffer from that type of sound you're describing in your video, especially when the heft and density of the case/weight combo just isnt there or no official way to iso plate res. Also its plastic. This kinda convo around a board (yes, that has compromises) is whatever to me. Im not sponsored either but Mode is at least trying to step up their game and compete with the others. I don't have one yet to test so I cannot say for sure but from what ive seen and heard online so far, I thought they did bring something new to the table. And for me, thats more important that having a board sound like some other "grail" board. You also have the pc version there.. I believe the one @Taehatypes built was alu.
The sound issues are unique to the design here. As a $200 keyboard, it’s fine. I just wanted to point out that it is not to the caliber that some people are expecting. Like saying it’s 90% of a unikorn is misleading. Mode has value and availability on lock and I said that in the video. The current coverage of the board seems to gloss over these issues. And there are plenty of comments from aluminum case owners that have the same sound issue. Let me know how yours turns out when it comes in - I’m curious if it’s a proto vs production run concern
For everyone that has a problem with resonance or ringing : if you are going to keep the keyboard on your desk, just remove the two screws that hold the pcb into the case. I was quite dissapointed with the resonance aswell, but after removing them it’s just perfect for me. Yeah the mods might sound a bit mettalic here and there but not in a bad way
Yeah my right tab key and right shift still sound bunk. The rest of the board sounds pretty damn good. I am a little surprised that Mode went forward with this design, it just seems below their capabilities.
@@burgosmatthew honestly i’ve embraced that sound as i like natural, not dampened, metal keebs and plates. Also like alexotos said, you can hear the case but more of a resonance instead of the classic annoying ping. It just gives me the feeling of typing on this hunk of metal and for some weird reason i like it
honestly I don't see why anyone would pay premium kb pricing for plastic boards. GMK67 is a very competent board, it is insanely competitive in the plastic keeb market and realistically nothing even comes close to the money to quality ratio the GMK67 provides. This thing coming in at 200$ could get you a keychron Q2 or even a zoom65. Complete bonkers price point for nowhere near the quality you deserve.
Honestly you know the market is crazy when you even have someone like Redragon coming out with pretty decent 75% polycarbonate keyboards like the elf pro with foam dampening, and gasket mounting, for around a hundred something bucks. The market for mechanicals has gotten so good now that you can actually afford to be choosier depending on what you want out of a keyboard and what you can afford to buy. You can buy one of those boards at any micro center or order it online whenever you want now! It’s kind of nuts how much the keyboard scene has progressed from when I started back in the mid 2010’s.
I'm about to buy this board, but when I saw your review, it makes me think twice for it lol love the design and looks, but the inconsistent sound and feels will be the deal breaker so bad for me
After using the Mode Envoy for about a month, I'm still trying to figure out how to configure it perfectly to reduce the pingy sound coming from the right side of the keyboard. The two screws holding down the PCB to the case is not a good design idea. I think it would've been far better for us if the Mode Envoy was a two piece case design, which would allow us to use a force break mod if we choose. The lattice mount is a gimmick as not every lattice is equal (some are stiffer and harder than others). The black mount is what I prefer to use since it's consistent. I still love the look of the keyboard. I think the silver mirror looks fantastic on the accent and the weight. Definitely not a Unikorn killer. Unikorn is perfection in sound.
thanks for sharing. that sucks.. i didn't even think to squeeze all the lattices to see how it felt. it wins in aesthetic and instock but the rest is just ok
I spent days wracking my brain on why my Pluto's spacebar sounds so shit, but then after I watched your video today it hit me. The Pluto had the same exact issue where case sound is reverberating when I'm using the spacebar. This proved to myself that I wasn't crazy! That some boards just have that issue. I'll try to tape mode my Pluto and hope it minimizes the issue.
Got this board and was disappointed with the sound too. The hollowness and inconsistency in feel just isn't it for me. Decided to use the pcb foam and silent switches and the issues went away. It's okay for a work keyboard but again, kinda disappointed I can't enjoy the acoustics of it.
yeah throwing foam fixes it and at least taeha said that as well. but we shouldn't have to fix it with foam for a board that was touted as one of the next best things. i'm a sound guy too so i would not buy this board. even if the pc and rgb look nice..
That's why I'm very curious how the Neo65 stacks up against this. They have a very similar core features and the Envoy certainly has more customization and aesthetic detail... I do like that you point out the flaws in the details on the production run boards. Nobody else is doing that.
I should pay for shipping to get more production run boards. After the elementg67 fiasco (the GB runner changed design after he hit his MOQ) I'm super sus of what happens behind the scenes
@@Babigoldfish got my Neo recently in red and the anodization is very impressive. I built with the gaskets and it's nice and soft, sounds amazing as well.
The bottom foam eliminates all resonance in my testing. Also, different switches have different levels of resonance. Not all have the issue to my ear. For example, Gateron Raws have no resonance in my poly Envoy, but I’ve added bottom foam in my alu one with Obscuras.
Use code ANDYV50 to get 50% off your first Factor box at bit.ly/3H9tJB3!
Finally somebody pointing out flaws! I'm kinda sick of the "influencers" in the hobby to be honest. All boards are hype, all are best value, all are flawless, until you get one and realize how many problems it has.
Definitely agree with you! Even when companies sponsor a showcase I make it a point to put it through the ringer and find what’s wrong with it so people know what they’re getting. As a result I get less prototypes to review but at least I can provide a valuable perspective
Doing everyone a solid. Everyone kept praising this board. If you pay a few extra dollars you can get a nice full sound from the modifiers as well.
@@AndyVNguyen i completley agree with your statement about reviews. on one hand you can be grateful to get prototypes and/or sponsored units to review on the other hand you know as content creator (i hate the word influencer...) that if you do point out flaws of products you might just never get anything again which hurts content creators in the long run.
i think alot of people think being a content creator is not a business but it is, and if there is alot of money in it for people they tend to not review everything objectivly because you know you dont want to bite the hand which feeds you.
its hard nowadays to look for "truthful" reviews because you never know in the end til you get it yourself which is kinda ridiculous if you spend sometimes 500+ bucks for a product which needs sometimes ages to be in your hands.
anyway im grateful you do the reviews you do even if it means you might not get to review certain products because youre not the "all is awesome" type.
also i just noticed the spacebar sounds kinda wierd on the enovy ? ruclips.net/video/XxYgouUrKFw/видео.html like right there maybe its just me but idk man
thats why i like your videos and black simons videos - minimal bullshit
I'm with you on that, they are just hype beasts. Give people a honest review ffs
@@AndyVNguyen Hi Andy I found that you use the hotswap PCB, the inconsistent also cause by the standoff, that's why when you loosen up the mounting screw, doesn't fix it.
on my mode 65 with hotswap board, having same issue with inconsistent feel and sound, after removing the stand off, now is good.
I think all mode hotswap pcb, by default using unnecessary standoff (CMIIW)
I appreciate the honst criticism, but let's try and see the bigger picture.
Every "budget" board has its flaws.
Some have bad ano, some have bad sound in some way, some are a nightmare to build and some are just a boring fckin box on wedge since it's the cheapest to produce.
The Envoy is not good because its the "Unikorn killer" or however you want to title it, but because its not a box on wedge design.
Of course it has it's flaws, but it also has lot's of things going for it, and if thats just the in-stock status of all parts, especially if someone manages to break their PCB.
Like all the big names praised it too much, here i just see the opposite, hating on it like a cult and calling it "someone really said the truth" like no, this is just the opposite of what the big names did instead of a totally balanced review.
Sorry for the rant, appreciate the honest and in the end i just wanted to say, trust your own decisions and don't let reviews of your favourite contet creator vote for you.
Thanks for the objective review, no one commented about the inconsistency in sound. It was reviewed often as if it was the next best thing since the invention of toilet paper
i was so surprised that no one mentioned it. every review is like THIS IS THE BEST KEYBOARD EVARR
@@AndyVNguyen i mean it explains a lot if you look at who are spreading good words of it. literally every "big" keyboard streamers out there, mf even forbes made an article about how "good" it is, tell me the marketing team of mode isnt behind this
@@shynnsup8383 i don't know waht to tell you, the mods on the envoy sounded bad. There's not more he can do other than buy 10 envoys and review his aggregate experience, but that's unreasonable.
@@shynnsup8383
I would usually chalk it down to a "revenge" review if it's nearly 90% negativity (peek the now deleted Keychron V1 review from Consumer Tech Review). Just because a bad point is mentioned about a board and 5 other good point is brought up, doesnt mean the reviewer is a hater. Sure, you can say that he was scorned by mode and delivered a scathing review, and I'll absolutely trust this review more than reviewers that received it for free and preach that it's the next best board to buy in the guise of "all opinions are my own".
At least andy has mentioned both pros and cons about the board, and he wasn't the only person to point this inconsistency in sound though - brandon taylor did point it out too but again people dismissed it. I'm all for more reviews that talks about the good, the bad, and the ugly. No board is 100% perfect to the point it'll only receive praises without criticisms. I can tell you all the flaws about highly regarded boards too like the tomo, sonnet and the F2 that I have on hand currently. they are not perfect and have some mild annoyances too.
@@scruffy1471
And if he actually did buy 10 envoys and found that some have no resonance in the same exact config, that wouldn't look good for mode's qc, wouldn't it? Haha
As a big fan of both Andy, and Alexotos(he is a big fan of mode):
Not gonna lie with the cycle 7 and the neo out right now this board may be leaning more on the mid range part of the scale.
Price to performance wise, they may not be consistent in terms of sound but the aesthetics can make up for it depending on the preference pf the buyer.
Andy, from what I know, leans more on the sound department of the hobby, which is why I can understand his thoughts on the envoy.
But imagine how chad it would be of Mode if they saw this and decided to send Andy more products to review
I’m definitely a sound guy! I’m crazy enough to desolder an entire build of something doesn’t sound just right. I know not everyone is like me of course. Mode has ghosted my DMs for a while but well see! Haha
@@AndyVNguyen How do you think an O-ring mount board in a PC case (like the parallel beam 65) would compare sound wise?
Alex isn't just a fan of Mode, he's literally sponsored by them lol
Hi Fuji.
I love the Envoy's smooth anodization finish, it's definitely a grade above my Zoom TKL, QK80 and QK60r2. I wish every anodized chassis has this kind of feel to the finish. It also doesn't seem to show any fingerprint, but that may be due to the green color I have.
For gripes, I think the board has a ringing problem with switch top-out. Initially I loved how it sounded right after finishing the build, but there's something about it that stands out when I'm typing normally and trying to concentrate on work instead of the keyboard sound. But I'm actually not fully sure what that sound is. Need to try with a quieter switch when I get time.
I've assembled my Envoy with an aluminum case and FR4 plate using Gat Silver Pro switches and I'm not coming across the sound issue you pointed out
Thanks for the feedback! It varies from plate to plate it sounds like. A fixed copper plate and alpacas didn’t have as much of an issue either. So it makes me think it is is the plate hole that’s causing it
I sincerely don't understand why people are still looking up to unikorn. I have one, and it is indeed good. But it's an old keyboard designed many years ago. The custom keyboard community has really evolved since then. So if I'am looking at unikorn now from today's perspective, it's just a "good" keyboard, not an "endgame" keyboard anymore. If now I hear people say that a keyboard is "as good as unikorn", I don't even take it as a compliment on that board. Because nowadays, being as good as unikorn just means being an average good keyboard.
Well I don't agree with you. I just recently acquired a pc unikorn and let me tell you it bangs really hard. It's definitely an endgame board. In reference I have tried over 20 + boards before getting it and for me it is really good. Maybe It's all preference but still for me the sound/feel is 10/10
Sorry Andy, I wanted to revisit this. I ordered a polycarb case and carbon fiber plate and MAN. This thing is my FAVORITE keyboard as of now. More than the Neo80, the Vega Ai03 and Bakeneko that I have.
The polycarb case/carbon fiber plate is much different from the aluminum case/fr4 plate I was using.
Yes there are inconsistencies on the tab/shit keys where the mounting screws are placed but that inconsistency does not bother since I barely use those keys? Anyhow I couldnt help but come back to this video and your criticism cause the alphas and spacebar sound AMAZING
Glad you found something that worked for you!
Yep Andy that’s why I watch YOUR content now. No BS, just honest, facts, and a lot of muskles.
Thank god i bought a tofu65 2.0 polycarbonate....i wouldn't have liked this envoy at all.
I care a lot more about the feel inconsistency than the sound because most of the time I am using my keyboard, I am also wearing headphones.
but I can feel the keys either way!
Didn't expect Andy to casually deadlift 475 lbs
ONLY 455
(was for three though)
damn its until NOW i realized why this vid has so many downvote.....its a PC envoy which has the weakest sound profile amost all envoys.....
oh i didn't know it was the customer's fault for buying the PC keyboard Mode sold
@@AndyVNguyen i think it comes down to judging the board with its weakest variant or something like that :/ still, not everyone has a mv7 to gaslight themselves into thinking mode's "lesser neo65" is a decent board for no-foam (im trying to print gasket that could secure the plate without using retaining screws, along with adhesive pe sheets just so it can compete with neo lol)
really a cool, collective, and objective review. by all means its one of the best boards within its price range, but i agree there are too many coping users saying its next to the best of unikorn cuz some of the streamers say so... like cmon
Newer to the hobby, but there are definitely some points I disagree with. Mainly the mention of Inconsistency with the typing feel and how you didn't notice loosing or tightening the retention bolt made any difference in the feel. While building mine I was able to fine tune using the retention points and achieved a consistent typing feel across the board very easily. Giving it just enough bounce/flex to not get buried into the chassis while typing or when pressing harder on the keys. I am using a copper plate (with boba u4t's) and the alu chassis so idk if that attributed to anything on my end tho. Will def admit that the mods sounds a little thinner around the holes and that is def a point to mention so people are well informed. Definitely still really enjoy your content tho, but I am sad that you are gonna pass on the Envoy as it is tied for favorite in my collection so far right next to my Ginkgo65.
For sure I think the sound is the biggest culprit for those holes. Thanks for sharing your experience!
ginkgo is def the superior one..
ginkgo went under the radar for sure. kinda lived in vega's shadow but didn't have any glaring issues
@@x3LightNinG yeah i definitely love it so much. I always find myself coming back it to it over and over.
@@AndyVNguyen fun fact. Your video was actually the one that helped me make my decision on purchasing it. So thanks for that 🙏🏻
solid review, kind of harsh on mode doubt they'll send you product LOL
I did notice once I switched to a POM plate the areas around the case screws sounded much better. At the end of the day how many people are actually spamming those specific keys though. I dunno. I think for the price you really cant beat it atm in the 65% entry level range. Most boards at this price point need foam to sound good.
Lmao yeah I ain’t getting anything anymore. The price at launch was pretty solid. Right now, it still wins for instock. The cheaper boards are still group buys iirc.
I don't like the Envoy at all. It resonates and the lattice blocks have horrible QC. I went back to my QK60 R2
The right shift sounds like when you take the suppressor of your m4a1 in CSGO
Yes ok but the kihaku and unikorn are nowhere to be found. Even 2th hand on ebay not for sale so what good does it to want it and not getting it? At least mode is in stock and actually buyable
yes, being buyable is nice.. but doesn't change what it is. it's a decent sounding keyboard with inconsistent sound in some places but it is not a drop in gummy o ring mount keyboard. the sound and feel are different
there are a lot of good gasket mount and drop in o ring boards that are purchasable secondhand (which is what most of the hobby is) for dirt cheap today. all the qk/owlab/cycle stuff can be purchased new
Im new to the hobby and dont know the difference between drop in o rings and gasket mounts 😅 i dont even know what any of this means. Just build my very first board and i really love it tho i forgot to buy stabilizers but it is already sounding and feeling better then anything ive ever had
I agree with you. These days there are far too many options at damn near any price point to settle for one that you're not going to be happy with. Now, obviously for those who really enjoy the modding aspect, getting a board you are mostly happy with, and then doing the work yourself to get it to where you really want it, can be a great thing, but some flaws are too big to overlook or require modding in a way that makes the board too jenk. Hell, even poor people like myself have options in our budgets, though those can be harder to figure out due to the fact that most folks aren't going to be doing too many reviews on the ultra budget options, but they are out there if you dig around....so may as well get something that you'll probably enjoy for your budget instead of settling just because you want the company to have made a good product. It's ok to admit that something fell short, that's how the good companies can learn and grow...
thank god not everyone is coping.
I guess my wait continues
what specifically are you looking for in a keyboard that you're waiting for?
Appreciate the honest review
Of course’
Hi Fuji!
Honestly, I’ve only seen two people talk about the inconsistency in sound, and that is you and Brandon Taylor, and I’ve only heard of the inconsistencies in later protos that were closer to the production run.
Now admittedly, I did buy the Alu ver of the Envoy. I’m sure I’ll be fine, or at least that’s my copium is telling me.
I'm scared for the alu.. because PC never pings. And if you think about it.. this is CF. which is non metallic. And the mounting, non metallic. And the case, non metallic. So how did we arrive at ping?
also fuji says hi
I found that the unikorn is pretty stiff. It's not flexible at all, but it does have that o ring flex. But the envoy doesn't really come close to the sound.
Also, I noticed how rattley yours was when you were comparing two boards together. Wtf
Yeah the envoy isn’t perfect. It’s good enough for the price and availability but people seem to not want to accept that. They want unikorns and kohakus to be viewed as bad keyboards
Hi Fuji :D
Good vid Andy, Envoy reviews are hella lopsided. BT was the only person I saw who had any negatives to say about the board, and some of the fanbase (y'all know who you are in Alex's stream chat) were mad salty and dismissive over it.
BT wasn't even lying, the board tipping cause of top row is real. Does it affect normal use? Nawh, but even with light force, any forward pressure will make it happen and it's a valid critique.
And for context, I actually like my Envoy.
My Envoy is also a game changer for me cause I mentally resolved myself and I'm ready to hard commit for my dream board. It's time to start praying for a win in the Kohaku raffle, and goddamn if that PolyHaku ain't a beauty!
fuji says hi back!
Yeah it was so odd to just hear so much good coverage, I thought this was gonna be a home run. It's still pretty good, just not what I expected. I agree with the tipping.
It's crazy that people will be dismissive if there's any criticism. When we stop criticizing these products the designers will stop innovating. There's always room for improvement and people should always be asking questions IMO
The polyhaku is so niceeeeeeeeee. The RGB fish is the bees knees!
You need to transition from keeb vids to Fuji/Jackson vids
Fr hes so washed now he needs it
I kind of naturally stopped using my Envoy and it is mostly because of those stupid fkn screws they used to hold the plate/pcb in the case. What a terrible solution. I too have to leave the screws loose to the point they wobble in the case because otherwise the board is just way too stiff. I like Keychron levels of bounce/flex, when I can get it, and I was disappointed in the Envoy for that. They could’ve come up with a better way I think. Maybe use the 3D printed pads around the edges to snap in the pcb somehow, like those pencil eraser gaskets on some boards, I think Geon has that style right? Either way Mode is mostly great, Sonnet is one of my GOAT all time fav boards, but the Envoy was a miss for me. Oh well what’s another $250 wasted it’s not like I have 5 other boards that did me the exact same way in my guest bedroom closet lol…
Honest is honest 😤 thumbs up
Sorry I had to comment again. To be fair, Alexotos did mention that there was ping if the screws were screwed too tight on the Alu versions of the envoy. I don’t think he played around too much with the PC variant because he didn’t like the PC edition as much. I know you’re not calling people out on their reviews, just thought I’d mention it to others who might go psycho and come after the other reviewers.
Thanks for sharing. Chat definitely brought that up and I loosened it all of the way. And then took it out.. and then the sound was still there. And I realized it wasn't the screw. lol
@@AndyVNguyen I’m curious if other oring materials other than the orings provided would help?
It feels like plate and pcb design. but I’m not sure
Im sorry but i just don’t hear a difference between $90 keyboards and these. Its in your heads
Would you recommend the envoy65 over the zoom65v2? Trying to build my first board and have been recommended the envoy over a lot of other options but it seems like you brought up some very valid and easily evident issues with the board that most haven't mentioned.
envoy, other than the sound of those few keys, sounds better than zoom65v2 imo. but zoom65v2 will be more consistent
@@AndyVNguyen Thanks for the reply but I ended up ordering a neo65 for first build. I'm in on the rainy75 preorder and looking to get the f1-8x v2 as well now though. Thanks for your honest reviews and opinions!
As another person with a preordered envoy pc I can’t notice any sort of standoff noise. But in any case this is quite disappointing to hear for what seemed like such a promising product.
you're lucky! enjoy the board
Just by looking at the comment section makes me realize that many people in this hobby are so easily triggered, those fanboys for certain content creators or board companies only want to hear the things they want to hear, even the actual owner of the board is giving his honest review they still don't give a damn about it, once the review is negative, they'll just be salty about it. which is super sad. it's really nice to see someone like you to give out the honest review, so that customers won't get misled, and get to know the full picture of the product. nice vid!
THANK YOU! I disagree with one take and point out one issue on a board and people are acting as if I waged war on Taeha and Mode. I just wanted to bring to light that the board is good enough, but not as good as it was being marketed. I'm a sound guy and it missed a sound mark.
@@AndyVNguyen Sound depends on a lot of factors so prescriptive statements don't make a ton of sense. People also talk about sound differently.
I don't think any of this makes the board better or worse as it is extremely subjective and depends on a lot of factors including your build and cofig.
Even Alexotos addressed these claims and I quote: "I have 3 personal envoys and have built a bunch at this point including the proto and none have that issue". He also said: "I can't perceive any critical sound difference. I mentioned in a few of my streams that over tightening the screws on the envoy, mainly the all alu one, may result in some metallic sound. So just dont over tighten it!" He also provided sound tests with these messages.
No offense but I rather take his word for it (and the majority of other creators and reviewers) than yours.
I think the board is pretty darn good and it might be the best 65% of the year.
Great content Andy. Preference is king and “sound” is so subjective. A bunch of influencers trashed the qk75 and it’s my daily. I’m a fan of Mode but I’m skipping this board. I need a function row so I’ll save my money if the new Loop.
Mode even sent one to me to check out. It’s a really nice board. Especially the sound at the entry level. The weight is nothing special but the mounting style is innovative and it works. A bit squishy, but good enough to be a solid recommendation. It lived on my desk the whole time I had it. Really enjoyable.
Thanks for sharing!
How do u get one sent out to you? Neither of us have a lot of subs so ig its not based off that
Really like the objectivity you’re trying to offer, though I think Mode bringing a $200 board with this much customisation and mostly great sound is pretty great. I think getting too bent out of shape about perfect consistency in sound at this price point we might be getting overly critical of makers doing their best and delivering a good product. I can think of many many makers producing garbaggio at higher price points 🙂
Mode instock can’t be beat here. I literally can’t think of an alternative. KFA tried to instock products and they … can’t lol.
@@AndyVNguyen cheers for the reply pal. I think it's both great that you highlight some of the things that aren't perfect and great they've managed to bring us this product. Always a fan of your content.
This is the only honest review of the envoy. I cannot stand mine. Built it every way imaginable, different plates, different switches, foam and no foam. The alphas sound great but modifiers are hot garbage to the point it’s unusable for me. I’m selling it.
here here.. yeet it
tbh your Envoy sounds really bad. I got my Alu Envoy with Copper plate and Alpacas sounds way better. Regardless of Taeha's comment about the unikorn, just compare his board to yours it sounds completely different. Maybe PC case with cf plate is not a good combo for the Envoy.
the copper plate works better. the cf plate of theirs just sounds straight up broken here
also taeha used foam. most streamers used foam. foam covers up ping
Thank you Andy for the honest review. I tried asking Alex during his stream about the sound inconsistency near the standoff and whether it happens in those other board that he built (a qc issue in production run). Unfortunately did not get an answer. Sad sad.
I am wondering taking all into account, would you recommend bakaneko60 or neo65 or cycle7 if I want to get a budget board for my bf?
I haven’t gotten hands on neo65. But cycle7 for something quieter and more refined and has arrows, Bakeneko for the best sound (just lay down paper towel in case to adjust for hollowness) and best mouse space for gaming.
Hello, I have a question, i have a choice to buy one of following boards - tofu 65 2.0, mode enjoy 65 and mode sixty five. So according your video i realize that there aren't any big difference between envoy and tofu, but what about sixtyfive doest it bring much better experience than tofu and envoy, as according to the some youtubers sixtyfive is the next level board is it true? so i have a oppotunity to buy tofu for 125$ on the other hard sixtyfive costs around 300$, so doest the overpay of 150$ worhth it and i will really get next level typing expiricence?
You will not get “next level” 2x the typing experience by spending more imo. The typing experience is tofu 65 2.0 is very nice. The sound is OK. I’d probably lean towards sixty five in general if I had the budget but you could be just as happy with the tofu 65 2.0. I enjoyed my tofu60 2.0 when I used it.
At the end of the day people need to remember how subjective this hobby is. Feel sound and looks preferences are literally different for everyone.
Take review videos with grains of salt not gospel. Understand the review style of the person reviewing the item and don’t buy simply based on a review
I treat board reviews the same way I treat smartphone reviews.
Either way thank for this one. I like you review style and the opinions you presented
So you said there are plenty other boards for the price or cheaper that are better than the Mode Envoy, but didn't mention any of them. Could you please possibly elaborate? Thanks.
QK and cycle
I'm not sure if I get the tofu65 2.0 or the mode envoy.
Which one should I get ?
tofu65 is more consistent but quieter. mode envoy has some inconsistent sound but has poppier alphas
hi fuji! thanks for keeping it real as always. although i jumped on the bandwagon and got the envoy T_T.
fuji says hiii!
but hey the envoy looks pretty right?
@@AndyVNguyen Yes it looks really good. I got the alu olive coloured version with the walnut accent and shiny polished steel weight. The ano is immaculate. Passed on the PC though cos no funds, hahahaha. The PC looks pretty with the RGB though.
oofff walnut accent. PC is super nice and it's a decent way to get cnc pc rgb 65%.
@@AndyVNguyenmaybe i will pick it up another time just for the RGB and nice alphas. I think the spacebar is pretty decent too!
I don’t have a pc rgb board right now and the rgb in this looks so nice
Would you choose a bakeneko over this in terms of getting the feel/sound of a unikorn?
1000 times yes
Hi Fuji! Thank you for the review!
Now you really gotta get your hands on an alu envoy man. With all due respect, PC envoy sounds weak af, even with the copper plate. Though the issues you mentioned still exists on the alu version, it definitely is something special and a cut above the boards at its price point.
themanicgeek just replied to a comment below saying his alu envoy is pinging worse lol
but yeah alu with all the options is gonna look great
@@AndyVNguyen hmm my envoy has no observable ping, even in recordings but mine has a copper weight, could be why
It’s interesting that you found that the sound was weaker in the corners. Alex posted some sounds comparisons in discord of the Korn, foundation 60% and 3 of his Envoys and I didn’t notice the sound weakening around the holes at all.
I guess I’ll just have to try it out for myself when my board arrives next week.
Some people’s mic setups pick up sound differently . I use a condenser mic that hears everything as it is and i turn off all processing. All I can tell you is my ears also hear the sound issues
Was this also the same on the aluminum case version of the Envoy?@@AndyVNguyen
Alex also had a pre-production version of the board didn't he? All I know is that I have an Envoy sitting in front of me and Andy's assessment is 100% correct.
How u gonna compare the aluminum case to a pc case and wonder why it sounds different - seems to me like you came into this video just to hate it. I have seen keyboards worse then this on ur channel get a better pass than this. U took this one under the microscope found one or two flaws and made a whole 10 minute review about it. Basically it doesn’t feel like a unikorn and the sounds are inconsistent. I have no problem with the negative review but I hear so much bias in this and during the stream compared to your other reviews
Most of the review on the sound and value I s positive, sounds like you came into this video with bias. It’s just not a unikorn at all, which was a big claim that was made
@@AndyVNguyen made by one guy, this hobby is supposed to be about our own taste anyways, aren’t we all supposed to come to our own conclusions on how you like the board. This whole review just seemed like drama bait to your RUclipsrs, you are a reviewer to, we come to this video for your reviews (which I still was able to get so thanks) but you’re also a big name in the hobby, people will still take your word for things without having to mention other names, whether or not u intended it. That’s how it came out
Taeha is a bit more than one guy imo. His statement shapes a lot of people’s opinions. I normally wouldn’t have to clip the whole thing but when I first streamed this and mentioned his claim he said I was putting words in his mouth. So I just wanted to make it clear by showing his words. But the video wasn’t 100% about the person who made the statement, it was my POV as someone who owns a Korn and has envoy on hand. It’s a good enough board and I still don’t see an instock alternative. Just wanted to provide my POV to say it isn’t the only keyboard, especially if you specifically want a unikorn. It was quick.. but if you want a unikorn, it’s cheapest and easier to get a Bakeneko.
It’s definitely framed to bring people in with thumbnail and title and intro.. but I review this the same. Without people claiming it was the best thing ever or 90% of the unikorn, I would not have had to go into this detail. I also don’t often review production units. When I review production, I’m way harder on it. Like the glorious GMMK pro I did a few years back. This keyboard is going to be on sale for instock so I want people to see a more honest review.
At the end of the day my opinion is my opinion
What boards would you recommend over the Envoy that are available in-stock for 65-75% layout in a similar price range? Trying to do my first build and seriously considering the Envoy but I wanted a deeper more muted creamy thocky sound signature while the Envoy seems pretty bright.
maybe tomo?
Thanks for the reply I'll check it out.
Def hyped low end board. Hype pushed it to a “mid” tier.
Also, hate mode bully discord mods.
it's a solid budget low end board with nice finishes. but the budget level went CRAZY in the last 6 months so envoy seems a little outdated already
damn their mods are bullies? how so?
@@AndyVNguyen asked a legit question about the timing of their drops. members flamed me and mods jumped in instead of giving legitimate answers. made me lose interest in their products.
I've just got my envoy. There is a big issue with the sound of the Q key compared to the W key. The sound of the Q is so much different from the W key, though they are next to each other and in the same row. the r4 row sound is significantly different than the rest of the row. I have to say that I had a bad experience with the board.
You should take a look at the build guide and make sure that you have properly aligned the board onto the lattices. I don't have sound issues with the Q key but definitely do with the TAB and Right Shift Key and Enter Key just the same as Andy.
@@burgosmatthew sound is different even when the board is not in the case. the Q key has a higher pitch than the rest.
@@burgosmatthew There are two giant holes on the plate and the PCB for the screw used to secure the PCB. It's the design flaw. Even when I took the screw out, the sound is not improved at all.
so i guess no MODE collab then?
They worked w me before! But all good they have grown to not need me anymore
Any other keyboards with a poly case that you recommend with similar RGB? Really love the clear frosted cases, and the price is throwing me off for this board
Hi fuji!
The sound of the mods don't bother me as much, but I do wish that the sound inconsistency had been brought to my attention. It's just about the integrity, you know?
With that said, you said the protos didn't have the stand-off-like things; I wonder what made them go with that implementation?
Yeah all I heard was super hype for the board and no issues. I don't know what the proto had, but the production run has no standoffs to have a proper "retention screw" design. It's proper but that big gaping hole was def an issue
I appreciate the honest thoughts, everyone has different opinions on every board so I respect you standing on your own opinion. But I have a question, how does the alphas alone compare to the unikorn? Because honestly, for me, if the alphas and space bar come pretty close to the korn, with the price and availability of the envoy, it might be worth it to me. Also what's your fav switch that you've paired with your unikorn?
MX blacks on alu, sp star fr4, inks on CF were my favorite combos!
Appreciate contents like this. I rarely see a content creator roast studios like you do and this is why I don't trust most content creators if all they do is rave about the product. To date, I still watch your Best Keyboard for 2022 content. Hope we see more content's like this from other creators. Hope you get more sponsorships.
hi fuji
Fuji says uwu
nobody talking a out how he casually deadlifted 455 or something?
What boards would you recommend in this price range that are better? (Besides the Bakeneko)
I'm personally waiting for the 65/TKL Cycles
If you need instock, you have to grab something from extras during the time frame it's available. As for any time instock, you gotta go with Mode.
Check this sound test of the Cycle7 twitter.com/andyv_nguyen/status/1691829835105173778
OMG I need more Fuji content in my liiiiiife.
haha i'll try to bring her into future videos!
hi fuji
fuji says uwu
Can’t tell if you’re just upset with the comparison to unikorn or if you don’t like the board.
Seems like this was less than a review and more that you were upset with another reviewer comparing to Unikorn.
the comparison should not have been made and i personally dont like the board for the price range since new, better things have come out
I mean a majority of it was a review and praising it for what it is. But with the NEO65 around the corner it's hard to justify the Envoy.
@@kaeroseonThe Envoy is a higher quality of board than the Neo65. Keep in mind the Neo 65 might be your preferece for cost/quality ratio but the Envoy is a higher quality.
@@kingmidas430true, in terms of manufacturing no doubt the envoy is better. But the neo has a similar mounting system with oring mount as a bonus and doesn’t use screws leading to a more even sound. It also has wireless if you need it. And for a similar price there is also the tofu 2.0 which I think is also slightly better than the envoy, there’s the zoom65v2 and cycle7 which aren’t as minimal but also higher value for money.
Neo65 has better anode, doesn’t have hollow mods and resonance. The Neo hasn’t been out yet when you made this comparison. Why you have the need to defend the envoy that much?
hi fuji
Fuji says hi back!
hi fuji
fuji says uwu
HI FUJI
FUJI SAYS HEWWO
Hi fuji 🐶
Fuji says uwu
BRO GET SOME SLEEP, YOUR EYES ARE BAGGIER THAN THE AVERAGE RAPPER'S JEANS IN THE 90s
ok i want a board that is under 230, and i am cool with 65% to a 80%, (if i could choose it would be 80%) what should i get, i care about the sound and feel most but want something that looks cool, what are some good options? (i have been out of the keeb hobby for a bit and want to get back in)
qk80?
okie, i have been looking have not bee able to find something more then that either lol@@AndyVNguyen
I built mine on Sunday - it arrived over a week ago but I had to wait for my long pole stabilisers to arrive.
I built it with fr4 + all foam, alu + no foam, and a few other configurations in between, and I feel it's a good looking keyboard, but the inconsistency in the bottom right keys (around the right shift) will cause my poor OCD ears to melt over time. Same issue top left, but less pronounced. Also left shift isn't great either for some reason - I've tried changing the stabilisers and still doesn't feel great.
For me the experience has been slightly disappointing - it's a good looking board, and it mostly sounds great, but it is slightly let down due to marked inconsistency in a few locations.
IMHO I prefer the sound of my Bakeneko 60 which to me sounds more consistent across the rows in comparison.
Wow so the foam doesn’t even resolve the sound inconsistencies in those areas? I didn’t have time to test it but I was leaning on Taeha’s suggestions to use a little foam. That’s disappointing. I know some people legit don’t even use right shift so it may not bother them but that is still a shame
I haven't given up yet. The latest configuration is case foam, alu plate, solid block mounts, no other foam. This is the best configuration I have tried so far. The inconsistencies seem to be masked somewhat with a harder mount. Also, I screwed the plate to the case more tightly.
So in my experience the less bounce, the better the sound - but it's all subjective of course. All the same, even with a harder mounting style, it does feel quite soft when typing, which is pretty cool.
My recommendation so far - the best sound for me comes with a harder / tighter mount, case foam, and no plate / PE foam. I'll keep playing with it because I am a tinkerer. I might even post a video of the different configs. @@AndyVNguyen
What’s your thought of mode 65 in 2023? Worth $300 price tag?
hi fuji
Fuji says hi back !
Hi, what was the grey keyboard that Envoy is being compared to on the sound test? It sounds so good! I'm not sure if I just missed it on the video, but I saw that it was a 65% keyboard and got me thinking that that is not the korn
Looks to be his Kohaku
Like Ray said, it's my Kohaku
Thanks for confirming to me that even with a half-plate on a Unikorn, the the board is still stiff compared to my other half-plate keyboards. I still like the typing feel of my Unikorn, especially the space bar. I am waiting for my 30A o-ring to see if I can just soften it up a bit since I don't want to compromise using a 1.2mm PCB. Don't want to change plate either since I already like the sound from a half-plate aluminum.
yeah the unikorn is NOT flexible! i was told this so much and i've tried a million builds and they all hold pretty sturdy no matter what. it's not bad at all, it's just not "flexible" like these flex plate and flex cut pcb boards.
half plate alu plate is goat in korn
for whatever it’s worth, I don’t have a Unikorn, but in my bakeneko I’ve used a half plate with a SNOP 60 PCB (1.6mm) which has flex cuts above and below the alphas, and it definitely has more give. I think you definitely lose some volume vs. a non-flex cut PCB (I also have an H60 PCB for comparison, which is 1.6mm with no flex cuts), but if you wanted more give (particularly with a stiffer material half plate), that may be something worth exploring. Just be sure to be mindful of compatibility with the Unikorn daughterboard/jst placement before pulling the trigger on an aftermarket pcb.
Yeah the flex cuts will do that. But up until the most recent run, the Korns came stock with non flex cut pcbs.
@@AndyVNguyen I’d definitely say that’s the right call for most people, especially since the majority of the hobby probably doesn’t want to solder, and in my experience/opinion, there’s very minimal if any typing feel benefit from flex cut PCBs paired with a full plate (as you’d expect for hotswap).
hi fuji, oh yeah andy, are u gonna try out the neo65 and do a comparison with the mode envoy?
mode envoy is going back to the owner who's immediately selling it lmao. i haven't had anyone reach out about the neo65 so probably not
@@AndyVNguyen aw, I can't believe it man, u are one of the most like entertaining keeb enthusiasts for me. People should sent more review boards for u to check out and have fun.
Thanks for the kind words man. I’ll see if I can reach out about neo65
Hi Fuji ❤
fuji says hi!
Would be interested to see you try the alu version as well
Are you gonna do jelly evolv keyboard?
they haven't really been talking to me after i reviewed link65 and said it wasn't worth it lol
@@AndyVNguyenooooo I see,, love the vids btw!! U a real one
Thanks for the support!
Thanks for your honest review, Andy! I guess I'll keep my Vega for now until I can get a Kohaku lol
So close to getting mine. I’m second guessing my POM+PC envoy combo here. Imma put nixies in it because I’ve only heard PC envoys with long poles. Don’t know what you have planned on content but I’d like to see a video comparing the numerous mounting styles we have nowadays. I have seen things still being sold as tray mount from the Hibi June, all the way to geons plateless tadpole. It would be fun to see a history or thoughts on what the mounting style means to a board.
mounting style history sounds like a GREAT idea!! thank you MrSkullhead
Carbon fiber all the way. It’ll sound fire
Yoo nice, glad you're sharing honest thoughts but question tho, why are we complaining about case sound when even so many sought after boards have and will continue to suffer from that type of sound you're describing in your video, especially when the heft and density of the case/weight combo just isnt there or no official way to iso plate res. Also its plastic. This kinda convo around a board (yes, that has compromises) is whatever to me. Im not sponsored either but Mode is at least trying to step up their game and compete with the others. I don't have one yet to test so I cannot say for sure but from what ive seen and heard online so far, I thought they did bring something new to the table. And for me, thats more important that having a board sound like some other "grail" board. You also have the pc version there.. I believe the one @Taehatypes built was alu.
The sound issues are unique to the design here. As a $200 keyboard, it’s fine. I just wanted to point out that it is not to the caliber that some people are expecting. Like saying it’s 90% of a unikorn is misleading. Mode has value and availability on lock and I said that in the video. The current coverage of the board seems to gloss over these issues. And there are plenty of comments from aluminum case owners that have the same sound issue. Let me know how yours turns out when it comes in - I’m curious if it’s a proto vs production run concern
For everyone that has a problem with resonance or ringing : if you are going to keep the keyboard on your desk, just remove the two screws that hold the pcb into the case. I was quite dissapointed with the resonance aswell, but after removing them it’s just perfect for me. Yeah the mods might sound a bit mettalic here and there but not in a bad way
Yeah my right tab key and right shift still sound bunk. The rest of the board sounds pretty damn good. I am a little surprised that Mode went forward with this design, it just seems below their capabilities.
@@burgosmatthew honestly i’ve embraced that sound as i like natural, not dampened, metal keebs and plates. Also like alexotos said, you can hear the case but more of a resonance instead of the classic annoying ping. It just gives me the feeling of typing on this hunk of metal and for some weird reason i like it
honestly I don't see why anyone would pay premium kb pricing for plastic boards. GMK67 is a very competent board, it is insanely competitive in the plastic keeb market and realistically nothing even comes close to the money to quality ratio the GMK67 provides. This thing coming in at 200$ could get you a keychron Q2 or even a zoom65. Complete bonkers price point for nowhere near the quality you deserve.
Honestly you know the market is crazy when you even have someone like Redragon coming out with pretty decent 75% polycarbonate keyboards like the elf pro with foam dampening, and gasket mounting, for around a hundred something bucks. The market for mechanicals has gotten so good now that you can actually afford to be choosier depending on what you want out of a keyboard and what you can afford to buy. You can buy one of those boards at any micro center or order it online whenever you want now! It’s kind of nuts how much the keyboard scene has progressed from when I started back in the mid 2010’s.
Hi Fuji
fuji says hi back
I'm about to buy this board, but when I saw your review, it makes me think twice for it lol
love the design and looks, but the inconsistent sound and feels will be the deal breaker so bad for me
i feel that
How do plastic boards compare with alu? I’ve only had alu custom boards
Pc is deeper sounding and less chance of hollow or ping sounds
I have a 223 aluminum Tiger 80 and a 120 dollar PC Tiger Lite. The lite sounds miles better and the Alum Tiger 80 is a PING machine.
@@robothtml cheap plastic sounds MILES better than cheap alu
Sup Andy, hope u been doing well brotha
Wassup keagan! Doing my best. Life is hard as always lol. Hope you’re doing well
Can you recommend another PC board around this price point？
cnc pc at this price point is unheard of imo. the china gb's don't do cnc pc often. so if price is your main constraint, this is the best option
Thanks, yeah pc boards are expensive af
After using the Mode Envoy for about a month, I'm still trying to figure out how to configure it perfectly to reduce the pingy sound coming from the right side of the keyboard. The two screws holding down the PCB to the case is not a good design idea. I think it would've been far better for us if the Mode Envoy was a two piece case design, which would allow us to use a force break mod if we choose. The lattice mount is a gimmick as not every lattice is equal (some are stiffer and harder than others). The black mount is what I prefer to use since it's consistent.
I still love the look of the keyboard. I think the silver mirror looks fantastic on the accent and the weight. Definitely not a Unikorn killer. Unikorn is perfection in sound.
thanks for sharing. that sucks.. i didn't even think to squeeze all the lattices to see how it felt. it wins in aesthetic and instock but the rest is just ok
hi Fuji
Fuji says hi!!!
@@AndyVNguyen luv ya
I spent days wracking my brain on why my Pluto's spacebar sounds so shit, but then after I watched your video today it hit me. The Pluto had the same exact issue where case sound is reverberating when I'm using the spacebar.
This proved to myself that I wasn't crazy! That some boards just have that issue. I'll try to tape mode my Pluto and hope it minimizes the issue.
oof spacebar hurts
Got this board and was disappointed with the sound too. The hollowness and inconsistency in feel just isn't it for me. Decided to use the pcb foam and silent switches and the issues went away. It's okay for a work keyboard but again, kinda disappointed I can't enjoy the acoustics of it.
yeah throwing foam fixes it and at least taeha said that as well. but we shouldn't have to fix it with foam for a board that was touted as one of the next best things. i'm a sound guy too so i would not buy this board. even if the pc and rgb look nice..
Always a pleasure watching your videos Andy! 😄
thank you for the support!
And you hear the screws rattling too if they are too loose. Its kinda lame.
Def didn’t realize that but yes, too lose and it’d definitely jingle around
That's why I'm very curious how the Neo65 stacks up against this. They have a very similar core features and the Envoy certainly has more customization and aesthetic detail...
I do like that you point out the flaws in the details on the production run boards. Nobody else is doing that.
I should pay for shipping to get more production run boards. After the elementg67 fiasco (the GB runner changed design after he hit his MOQ) I'm super sus of what happens behind the scenes
Many Vietnamese streamers said neo65 is better. No hollow, resonance and better anode compared to this
@@Babigoldfish got my Neo recently in red and the anodization is very impressive. I built with the gaskets and it's nice and soft, sounds amazing as well.
@@Babigoldfish and know they know that when swap to plate like carbon fiber, the corner pings af
Fuji is adorable--what breed is s/he?
Chihuahua poodle Pomeranian!
The bottom foam eliminates all resonance in my testing. Also, different switches have different levels of resonance. Not all have the issue to my ear. For example, Gateron Raws have no resonance in my poly Envoy, but I’ve added bottom foam in my alu one with Obscuras.
I find that long pole switches alleviate case hollowness and we used long pole switches here. That's good news that case foam helped!
Hi Chu
sorry chu is busy knitting
off topic but what tshirt are you wearing? looks like it has a really good fit :D
Urban outfitters relaxed fit. I think it looks like a garbage bag but my wife said that’s the proper fit so yolo