500 HP or bust! Ford 351W build dyno tested
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- I took my recently completed Ford 351W to the engine dyno for tuning and to see how much power it makes. A 750 cfm Edelbrock VRS-4150 carburetor was tested along with a Trick Flow R single plane manifold (TFS-52400114). I also swapped carburetors (750 CFM Race Demon) and intake manifold (Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap PN 7581).
Thank you so much for posting all this great information.
I will be starting my 351w build late August 2024, and this information is like Gold! helping me a great deal. 👍 🙏
I have a 95' 351w in my E350 van I will be using.
I'm glad people find it useful. Good luck with the build!
Overall 440/480 with air gap on small cube nice job man!
Thanks! Appreciate it.
Agree that’s a good runner. I’m building a SBE 351 for my sons Bronco. It will get TFS 190 11r’s, RPM Air Gap, XE274HR. Hoping for 430/430.
Nice work! Thanks for the info
Mine is a 383 with Eagle rods and crank, diamond pistons @12.57:1. Cam is a 630 with split duration 258/263@ .050 solid roller in an early block fitted with billet 4bolt mains. On E85 it made 726@8200. In my little maverick it makes for good fun. I have had no reliability issues in two years of driving on the streets mostly as the drag strip is not like it was when I started back in the late 1960s when you ran off the weight and advertised horsepower , no bracket bullshit. A good tuner/driver combination was hard to beat when it wasn’t a bunch of electronics and real men drove stickshifts. Hell they were almost all sticks back then, at least the fast ones were.
Wow, that's a really good piece you've got there. What do have it in? Nevermind, Maverick I see. That's a lot of motor for a Maverick.
Pretty decent results! That'll be a good running engine. I picked up a set of bare Windsor Sr. heads at a swap meet for $100 a few months back. I planned on doing a 357 with a block I had laying around and coincidentally built basically the same motor you did but I plan on running a Vic. Jr. & a quick fuel brawler 750. It's got a Lunati solid roller, 243/249 @.050, .616/.624, 110/106. Icon flattops, Scat forged I-beams, Scat cast crank, 3.5in stroke, ETC. 10.5:1 cr is what I'm hoping to get to with some head work like you did. Saw your last video right after I got to buying parts and have been waiting for the dyno vid every day since to get an idea of what mine would make and im satisfied! Mine will be going into an '88 F150, single cab, short bed, and a ZF5 transmission.
Yeah, that is pretty close to the same spec's as what I built. Should be a fun motor in your truck with the 5 speed..
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage Yessir, should be a fun ride! I’m only 20 so 500hp should be plenty 😂 This is my first build I’ve done by myself so hopefully everything goes well.
Good build. The Windsor Sr. is a good head when ported well, and it looks like you got that nailed.
This engine has a lot more power in it. For a 0.030 over with factory crankshaft and old school iron sr cylinder heads, this engine would’ve been a Chevy killer on the streets in a Foxbody back in the 90’s. There’s still 25-30 hp still left in this engine.
I'd agree with that. Thanks for watching!
It wouldn't kill any similar built chevys.
It wouldn't have killed any similar built chevys.
@@HioSSilver1999 Really? I used to gaptize SBC and BBC with an Roush Sr iron headed roller cam 351-W. I lost count back in the late 90’s how many BBC and SBC I smoked on the streets. Then it got worse for the Chevy guys when I built a Cleveland. We’re killing it right now with a 427-W
@@StainlessTIG2 yea....well i gaptized 351s with a 305.....so what's your point?
Here's the deal.....there's no such thing as a 427w. That's all aftermarket shit. So once you take the furd out of ford they run pretty good. But you have to do that to carry a sbc jock strap.
And no equally built sbf is gonna run with a equally built bbc....just how it is.
Even to run with a sbc the windsor is gonna need aftermarket heads. Actual ford Windsor heads don't flow nearly what a sbc head can. On top of that a sbc can be made with 400ci using FACTORY parts.....there's no suck thing as a 400ci windsor without it being a fully custom engine......just how it is.
But that's the furd guys way.....let's compare fully custom built furd shit to factory sbc stuff.
Looks like a great performing engine! Great video as well.
Thanks for watching!
the torque hangs in there really well beyond 6000 rpm. i attribute that to your intake port and cam selection.👍
Nice build! I have a 332" based on 302 block, it looks very similar to your 351, and makes 530hp. They sound similar, too. I think you'd definitely pick up more power with an 850 or even 950 carb.
Thanks! What are the specs on your engine? Sounds pretty healthy.
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage I have a forged crankshaft, 3.25" stroke, custom length 5.5" h beams, ultralight 4.030 JE forge Pistons,(418g) floating pins, balanced assembly. Lightly ported TFS track heat heads with matching Victor Jr, 10.95 to 1 static compression, solid lifter old blue racer camshaft 106 lsa, 250/260 @.050, steel billet stud girdle, OEM 72 302 block, All casting flash removed and oil returns enlarged. 750 race demon. 1/2-in fuel lines in the car and Edelbrock(or Holley?) 110 m. pump. MSD dist. and 6AL. 20/34 timing, idles around a thousand with 7 in. of vacuum. It's quite a bit of motor for a 2450 lb mustang II. Lol
@@AmericanThunderdamn nice build
@@lebryantjohnson7306 thank you!
@@bigboreracing356 Oh, I watched a video of yours, I didn't realize you were a toothless hillbilly. Carry on.
Got to 500hp! Nice job!
Thanks!
I LOVE a painted Motor. There's Chrome. There's Anodized. There's Polished Aluminum.... But I just LOVE a painted Motor. They look strong!!!
Always more power available with tune and swapped components, etc. It's all about THE COMBINATION. Good job, nonetheless!
Air gap all the way for me. 750 plenty. Would put $ trickflow "might" pickup a mph or 2 but 60ft will drop
Nice, looks like a 351 horse motor from the outside !!
The 351 from the earlier years had a lot more compression than the latter one's
Edelbrock made more power than a Demon?? WOW!!
Edelbrock does have annular boosters... Demon just had standard downleg boosters, although the race Demon boosters are changeable so I could have swapped in annular boosters in it if I had them
That things runs great. Have you thought about tightening up the lsa on the cam
Good question, but I think what you are asking is, Do I think a tighter LSA would make more power? ... A 107 LSA would probably give me another 20 lb-ft or so below 5000 rpm., but I'm pretty happy with it as is and don't feel like swapping cams at this point. Besides a tighter LSA would have less vacuum and worse idle than it already has...would have to idle it up to probably 1500 rpm with a 107 LSA cam and this much overlap.
your power bottle neck is the heads the exhaust bowls on those heads do not flow well for a budget build i would have went with the original twisted wedge had both those heads and the twisties work better or the F.M.S X 304 HEADS GOOD WORK nice job
Pretty good assessment. I didn't spend much time on the exhaust side compared to intake.. Definitely left some on the table there. Got tired of grinding cast iron. Probably will remove and re-work exhaust at some point.
@@MarksMuscleCarGaragemostly the bowls on exhaust side
Id love to know what mine has
Great results! I think the motor would have liked a little more carb cfm especially with the Dual Plane up top. Other that that they both will run great at the track. One would mph well and the dual plane would ET well because of its broader torque curve. Also playing with some carb spacers on the Dual Plane would clean up the signal up top.
Thanks! Agree with the manifold vs ET and mph.
Nice engine combo. I would've tried more timing, i believe the sweet spot with these heads will be around 36-38° That could've been an extra 20-25hp albeit, aka, I'll bet.🤞🏻 I'm confused why the timing wasn't played with? Imo, that is a must have for max efficiency, even more so than jetting. I believe in timing first, jetting second. Still, a broad power band & a great sbf I would Love to own.❤ Kudos.👍🇺🇸💪
Yes, time for torque, jet for horsepower. I was thinking 34 or 35 would be the best but my machinist wanted to keep it safe at a 33. I'm sure I could have pushed it if I wanted. Think he didn't want to risk detonation, especially with cast iron head. First time on a dyno for me and I wasn't trying to wring out every bit, it's more street/strip than pure drag race engine, so I'm not really concerned about ET. If I wasn't trying to test two carbs and two manifolds, I would probably have tried to dial it in a little better including running another degree or two of timing.
@@MarksMuscleCarGaragenice running engine, what size valves in heads,nice head when ported,what do they flow
@@eddiefe428 Thanks. I made some incremental improvements on the heads and a made few videos on them. Peak flow was 314 cfm intake/207 exhaust. Valves are 2.02/1.60. Exhaust could use some more work, and I could go bigger on intake valves. Future upgrades maybe...
Bigger carburetor along with more total timing advance and rippem's certainly would've net you more powa. Race fuel wouldn't hurt either.
Solid roller sounded like it was wanting to go and he chopped throttle.
All true. I underestimated how it would carry past 7000 rpm. ARP 8740 rod bolts were only rated to 6800 rpm, so I didn't want to push it. ... I should have used ARP 2000 bolts.
What size are the dyno headers? Thanks for the Excellent content
Thanks. Dyno headers were 1 3/4 to 1 7/8 step headers.
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage one more question you said in one video the heads flowed 300cfm but in another video you showed the flow numbers and flow was 250cfm what gives?
I did some more work on them and got them over 300CFM. Watch the Amateur Head porting results video, and the how to video if you want to see the additional work I did.
i built a mild street 351 W it ran fast but had little low end tourqe. i could barely spin the tires. what went wrong?
Hard to say. I would probably start with you need a lower rear gear (3.50 or higher ratio).
I have seen a 392 windsor make 748 horsepower.
That's a lot, especially if it was NA.
is it 351or has it been stroked
Stock crank. Bored .030 so it is 357 cubic inches
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage that power is great for a 357 I have a 398w was wondering what kind of power I make my guess on mine was around 500hp I don't have after market heads I have GT40 heads iron heads my only set back
@@jerryburks2755 I'm not sure but would guess somewhere between 400 and 450 even with the extra displacement, and depending on the other components (camshaft, intake manifold, compression ratio). The GT-40 heads flow better than other factory small block heads but they are still not great compared to aftermarket heads. Richard Holdner has done some videos with GT40 heads and dyno testing. He probably has a video where he tested a stroked 351 with GT-40 heads.
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage 10.5 compression hydraulic flat tappet 292d 518 lift runs real good for a classic street car
Shame its not a sbc. Wouldnt have to 7000rpm it for 500hp
Have a hard time making 500 hp with iron heads and pump gas on a SBC
That's good power for that motor in my opinion l have a 384cubic inch winsor l had victor Jr intake and victor Jr heads 673 673 solid roller and it made some where around 575 to the tires that was 22 years ago
Thanks. 575 whp is a lot for 384 inches. Pretty stout.
I expected more, atleast 550hp, i new windsor sr or what have u are not great, not offen a 347 makes alot more, but i have afr
I'm thinking conservative dyno. Engine was carrying power all the way out to 7000 RPM with the single plane, so I don't think lower numbers were from lack of head flow. Heads were flowing about same as AFR 205 after porting, although AFR does have smaller combustion chamber. I will probably run it on a chassis dyno to get another data point. There is also ET and trap speed...
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage can't say there the same as afr, cause mine made 540 at tires with same stuff but afr renagades, and a 408 made 630 at crank with more compression tho which is tiny hp per point higher, but u still have a nice engine tho
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage
"Some say" that 111 LSA is 3 - 4 to much for a 357 CID engine with 10.5:1 compression ratio.
That is why it is in the low 1.20 lb/ft/CID area.
A 347 will always make more than a stock stroke 351W if both engines are built identically. A 347 has less rotating mass which means more hp. A 351W crank is heavy for no bigger than the engine is.
@@BlackLabGarage I agree with u wich I'd take the extra weight cause that's torque, 351 usually has little more torque
Torque struggles below 4000rpm…too much cam.
Well, the carb used on the first 3 runs didn't perform as well which might be what you are referring to. For the other carb, if you look at the torque/hp curves at the end of the video, from 3500 to 4000 torque was pretty flat at 400 lb-ft for the single plane and about 425lb-ft for the dual plane not really struggling in my opinion. There might be some low numbers when he engages the dyno around 3500 rpm or so, as it loads the engine down which aren't really representative numbers.
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage Last sbf I built was 331ci that made 460 ft lbs 3800rpm had a much smoother torque curve with HP peaking at 480ish at 6200rpm. 10.5:1 cr, TW out of box 170 heads, etc. Custom cam 229/235, 111 LSA on 109ICL.
@@msk3905 Those are pretty good numbers. I'm sure I could have made more low end torque with less cam duration and less overlap, but the cam does what I wanted it to do which is make peak power around 6500 RPM and pull to 7000 (kind of looks like Coyote power curve). I don't think I'll be missing the lost torque below 4k but we'll see. There is a Richard Holdner 347 vs 351 comparison video where he made 480 ish hp with both motors with a little less cam and better heads than I'm using... so I guess my point is dyno numbers on the internet should all come with a +/- 10% accuracy disclaimer.
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage rpm and vibration (they kind of go hand in hand) kill motors so I guess I don't understand the want for a 7000rpm peak when you can make the same or more with a lower peak? Sorry my engineer brain cannot comprehend things like this but I get it its what you wanted. I built my engine mainly for torque rather than HP but in hindsight probably shouldn't have as 1st gear was useless (in my foxbody), 2nd I was breaking tires loose once I got some rpms but mashing the gas when cruising was a blast especially in 3rd when I had traction!
@@msk3905 I think I indicated I wanted it to peak at 6500. I built it with a redline of 7000 in mind ... so it peaked at 500 hp at 6500 or maybe 6600 and held 500 hp to 7000,. In hindsight, seeing it carry power the way it does I wished I'd have built the bottom end to rev to 7500. I wouldn't be making more power if torque peaked at a lower rpm... peak torque would be about the same just at a lower rpm. Horsepower being a function of torque x rpm, it would make less hp if torque peaked at a lower rpm. 400 lb-ft torque from 3500 to 6500 is pretty solid regardless of where it peaks. I think Foxbody stock T5 is something like 3.3:1 first gear which is ok for stock 5.0 power but too much for any significant power mods.
Far from decent. That’s a 10
I was guessing 480-500. I got close. Didn’t you say the pistons were down in the hole .020? That’s @ least 15-20hp.
Yes pistons were about .022 below deck on average. I compensated with a thinner head gasket though (.023 " thick), so not too bad. Thanks for watching!