BIG BANG, TWIN TURBO, JUNKYARD FORD 351W-WHAT I DID WRONG!
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- FULL BOOSTED RESULTS-TWIN TURBO, JUNKYARD, SBE 351W. How much power can you make with a junkyard 351W? Stock bottom end with extra ring gap, good heads, cam and intake with a pair of CX Racing 76-mm turbos. See what happens when we add 23 psi of boost to the stock crank, rods & pistons. Junkyard motors with boost rule!!
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I've watched this 100 times and Richard was to persuasive. Took my 351w to the shop with a scat forged 408 stroker kit, main girdle, pro-comp 210 heads, xfi 236HR-14 cam.. Threw in some arp2000 rod bolts and ordered the twin 76mm turbos. When I watch Richard, my bank account vanishes. Thanks for the inspiration and awesome builds brother...
funny how all that adds up for 351w. might as well buy a 7.3L petrol crate at this point
I think you had alot of fun ..and thats what its all about
@@iaiband I'd take a 351W over a 7.3 crate. You're still replacing parts on the 7.3 and the math doesn't add up
@@chrismathes3647 what kind of power did your stroker make?
Stock bottom end 51 Windsor at 1000ft/1000hp! Good lord!. I remember the days if you had 300 you were probably the local hotshot!
Yep. I remember when any engine with 1hp per C.I. was pretty hot lol
Ha...that was in the 80s
Yep. I remember the days when anything over 300hp from a small block was considered a lot of power.
now y'all made me want to get my 302 zephyr a 351w..
@@KingJT80 what mk zephyr? My father has a 289 mk 3!
Please revisit this one Rich! Would really like to see what a properly set up stock bottom end 351W can do reliably!
I bet that NA combo would make a beautiful street / daily motor
I remember reading this article online. It ended badly. Lol. It's cool to see videos on stuff I've read in the past. Thanks for everything you do Richard. Keep up the good work bro. 👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Absolutely nothing 4 digit power on a junkyard bottom end 👍👍 freaken awesome 💪keep up the good content. Specially the Ford stuff
Either way, pushing 1000hp on a junkyard 351w is awesome! I’m curious to see how much more is left with a different intake and cam!
Amazing you went as far as you did without blowing it up! Over 1000 HP PRIOR to the FINAL Throttle-Boost Roller Coaster Engine Breaker run! With a STOCK BOTTOM END! WOW!!!
Keep going with this engine. Ford guys need an LS/coyote alternative. See what you can get with a forged bottom end as well. Imagine the views if you can hit a reasonably reliable 1200+ with off the shelf heads that don’t require a second mortgage. 👍
I would definitely love to see this tried again. I’d stick with the heads, but bigger can, and different intake. Holley hi ram, or single plane with an elbow would be better, and would drop the torque number to more what you’re looking for. I’d also really love to see this test tried on a 460 too. That would be a sight to see for sure.
I want to do this with my engine will it handle all of that power if I use it as a daily driver?
Ernesto Ramirez it will at a lower hp
@@emiliano29171316 like around 600?
It'll handle that power as a daily driver, won't be running it at the 1000 hp mark when you drive, run out of road fast and will be doubling or tripling the speed limit.
4:48 "little disappointed in the power"... dude, that's an absolutely gorgeous dyno plot for a street engine. Yes, I know that's not the goal, but remember this one for other purposes...
A stock 351W with a good top end package should make 425-450 HP hence Richard’s disappointment. I think that intake hurt the combo more than the cam.
Thanks again for another great video.
I worked in speed shops for most of my life. I fell in love with the 351W in the mid 90's. The fact that that motor would take a 150 shot of N2O at 3000rpm with stock crank and rods was crazy!
Love that you are using other engines. "The fuel and air can't read the name on the valve covers".
I remember reading this back in the day! Love how your revisiting them
Next time you run out of wastegate spring, use regulated shop air to the top of the wastegate.
With gas regulators I stretch the hell out of the springs, i can usually get a extra 30% more pressure that way, not ideal but works in a pinch.
Yeah, a lot of drag cars run their wastegates on CO2.
I'm glad that you are going over this. I read your article on the internet a few months back and decided to give it a try on my channel. I'm doing almost everything you did and even have the same camshaft and it fits using 2.02int valves @ around 130ths clearance. I did a lot of looking and reading and it looks like the valves in your afr heads would run into the slope of the dish in the piston. Anyways love the channel and keep doing what you do 👍
Remember working my ass off for my vortech sc and all the goodies, then finally got a early model 351 with a built lower end and all the goodies in my coupe. Wow what a difference. Thanks for the memories..
Thanks for all the FORD Testing.
I enjoy watching the tests you run on different set ups hopefully one day I will see what you make with a 360 Magnum for some of the other guys👍
I can’t wait for you to do this combo again ben waiting for a long time might inspire me to start buying parts for my 351w block I’m building 👍
I’ve been a fan of Richard for decades. I actually own “5.0L Ford Dyno Tests” from 2000... it’s sitting right in front of me and I’ve learned a lot about engines in general from this book. Airflow, airflow, airflow.. the foreword is great.. Richard still had hair. 🤣
That's real OG
@@richardholdener1727Yes… Yes indeed, Richard.
junkyard turbo 460
Wait hold on I’m working on that
Oh yes please!! I second that!
Just picked a 460 up yesterday. Thats my plan, mild aluminum headed 460 with twin turbo.
Oh yeah, stroke the sucker to 514 cubes toss in some forged pistons , shotpeened and magnafluxed rods, a good set of heads solid roller, an in tercooler, twin turbo setup and katy bar the door!!
Thanks for all the Ford stuff
At this point I think we would all tune in to a Big Bang episode even if it was on a Briggs and Stratton. Love the info man please keep’m coming!
The First Big Bang is up Next-and it wasn't the LS
Richard Holdener well now I’m on the edge of my seat!
I can’t wait till you do this again this engine is one of the best lots of people love it for a reason👍good work man!!
This video and my morning coffee was the best start to a Saturday morning. Great job. Thanks.
It would be cool if you revisit this test. I'd be curious to see how the numbers would work out with a holley hi ram, electronic boost controller and on e85.
1000 ft/lbs on a stock bottom end.... holy shit that’s better than most light truck diesels! These videos make me want to Big Bang my daily’s.
Can't wait for you to do this again but better! Love the factory bottom end tests!
This was a very cool test
Thanks Richard.
I read this article a few years back. I'd love to see this again with a solid roller.
Do it again? Absolutely, love the big bang content. Want to see it done with all the motors, the import stuff also.
Would love to see this truer again! This is awesome info? I have a 351w and was hoping to run it around 750 hp and was wondering if it could handle it! Thanks for all your hard work and Time Richard!
it'll split at 800
@@Mesteban781 like the one in the video did @ 1000?? The 😒
Dude just put eagle rods and forged pistons to be sure
I remember seeing your super Ford articles n thinking who is this guy but dude you got some cool ass videos I got to admit
I am currently in the process of building a setup based on that article alone. Please redo this!!!! Love your stuff!
Another awesome video Rich.
Now we want that vortec 8.1.
FINALLY the video iv been waiting for..
Great job 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
A 351w is a beast durable motor in stock form, I could only imagine a blueprinted forged bottom end with the right cam and intake! 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪I remember when you limped home after finishing the silver state classic in that awesome notch.
The god of engines still hard at work.
Well I believe that you did a great job of finding the limits of a stock 351w bottom end. My experience with 351c in the early 1970's was not good spinning bearing due to oil passage design and lack of high volume oil pumps at that time.
Great video need to show more people this tired of seeing everyone just ls everything
I have been waiting on this video your videos have me hooked
Great video! I need to show this to my old man! It REALLY makes me want to finish up my 408W build! Might have to turbo it later on as well. I can only imagine how much fun a Fox Body stang would be with 800HP.
im in the process of doing this exact same build for a customer of mine. Im about to foward this video to him for inspiration!
Great vid keep them coming thanks
A incredibly simple way to add boost to a maxed spring & MBC - send 5-10psi (or more) to the top port using a pressure regulator! You can use that along with your bleed-stye that's already on the bottom port. It was used in a few old Turbonetics kit that I know of.
Also the prob with throttle control for the dyno is the turbos build 'infinite' boost before the throttle body, meaning much higher drive pressure than you'd normally see at that boost level. They'll surge like crazy, too.
Better you than me, brother! 😂 Thanks for taking it all the way to the brutal end! 🔥🔥🔥
hell yeah richard keep the gold coming
Awesome video!! The Big Bang is definitely what I thought would happen, but I didn’t think it would go over 1000 hp!!! Wow very cool on Cast pistons!!! 😂👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Please do this test again I love these motors and would love to see what you can get out of one!!
I remember reading about this test in hrm. Would love to see this revisited with more intake, more cam, more boost. This thing clearly had more in it.
Would definitely love to see you revisit this as I am going to swap a 351 with some sort of power adder into my fox at some time in the future.
Those inline AFR heads with big valves are where you ran into ptv trouble. If you look where you had to clearance them, it was on the outside of the factory dish on the flat portion of the piston. This is where the 11r heads with their valve angles really shine on the stock bottom ends.
When did you do this dyno run? I feel like I read about this a couple years ago! Been tellin everybody about it. No one believed me. Now there's a video to corroborate my story! This channel is GOLD!!!
thnx-Chris was totally right guys!
I have read about this too.
I think you addressed some of the issues with this build. I would love to see this re done with updated better parts and done one efi and a csu blow through.
Great video! I myself love the 351W. I would love to see you try this again and see what you can actually get out of it. I am planning on doing a 351W with my young son for a 93 f150. I like the 302 but the 351W has so much more potential.
Jody Bowling
And so much more fuel consumption.
@@fastinradfordable when building for extreme power, fuel consumption is only an afterthought. As in you get what you build. Obviously the more power, the more fuel must be used.
This gives me alot of hope for our Crower Billet bottom end we have !
I still would love seeing a Caddy 472/500 pushed to the limit with boost. They are RPM limited, but torque monsters.
On the surface, I agree. The issue is: rods.
The stock armasteel rods are marginal at mild-NA boost levels.
The Caddy (even the 472) has a big stroke.
The secret to the Big Bang is limiting torque, going for horsepower (more rpm)
The Caddy internals are heavy. RPM’s would strain the armasteel rods by tension. Turbos on a Caddy would be a torque proposition. That hits the rods from the compression perspective.
The rods would be hit by both sides.
I predict the party would end by 9:30pm and everyone would go home disappointed. If the reciprocating assembly would be switched to lighter, forged parts, you could do something, but then, the junkyard objective would be lost.
IMHO
@@jeremythefleetguy1693
I was unaware of the rods being the weak link in a Caddy. After seeing a a 351w make 1000 ft/lbs on a stock bottom end I was curious to what the torque number would be on a caddy before letting up the ghost. With a motor that can start life as a NA motor with 550 ft/lbs, I wonder if with some tuning wizardry it could set the big bang record for torque before scattering the rods.
You are most likely correct that she would make for the shortest party, but there is some allure in playing with one of the largest engines ever made for automotive purposes and can still be found extremely cheap
More 351 builds please! Loving the content! Maybe a 351M? I seen the 400m build.👌👌👌
I hope you do the 351 again. I have been thinking about one for my full weight Foxbody. The goal is to run 10.0x as cheap as possible. I would love to see you keep the E7 heads though an HO cam in it and see how much boost it would take to get 700 HP. Then try the big heads and cam for Max power.
I remember reading this story. I am basing my Windsor build of it but with cheaper speedmaster heads and holley super sniper. I even put a smaller cam cuz I didnt want to have to dremal the piston.
A lot of times a 2.02 intake valve will interfere.
Good pistons football rods and stock crank love making good power on a budget
A trick i used to back in the day was to find big washers that fit inside the wastegate top cap. the washer would add pressure to the spring much like a shim for cheap adding roughly 2 psi per washer. sounds getto i know but in a pinch it works like a dream.
Edelbrock top end kit and then turbo ( blow thru style ) ! That's what I'm building now so Perfect timing lmao
To me that was impressive junkyard stock bottom end👌💯
Next 4.6l big bang please twin turbo ring gap
So I did this thing 😂 and it sounds nasty basically this combo with a slightly bigger comp cam and afr 185 heads also had to clearance the pistons just started it sounds great with open headers thanks for the info your the man
Super awesome...revisit this let's see how far she'll go..
I would think you need dished forged pistons for boost, add a stud girdle which is cheap, different cam, supervictor and Pro Flo4 EFI, same heads, ARP bolts all through. It is commonly accepted the 351w block is good for 7-800 max., so pure risk if you go for 1000 and then need aftermarket block. Simply, power adders will push past stock block limits. Great video!
Richard your a legend.
What you did wrong. EVERYTHING! LOL
I'm shocked. I thought the internet says that cast pistons shatter when you put turbos in the same room with them. I just wish we had video of the throttle control boost controller carnage!
it was epic
Very cool, makes me feel safe @550 N/A 408 with forged internals, studs top & bottom and a girdle.
I love it I have the 351 in my 67 f100.
I have to agree
I think the bigger valves in the 205 heads caused an issue with the valve clearance on the Pistons. I would really like to see you run the same setup with a set of 185 heads and see if you have the same clearance problem that you had with the 205 heads
Its time for the revisit 😉
Love the Joey impression 🤣
I think where you clearanced those pistons could have created a hot spot there for one, second the on/off you where doing was no bueno .... definitely giving chance to moments of lean conditions.... all in all though Im very impressed with what she took before checking out..... Id love to see a 408 stroker with the same setup woo weeeee...... thanks for sharing!
Great video
Absolutely love the content man! What type of fuel are you using in all of these test videos?
That is extremely surprising that the block didn’t crack or that it didn’t lift the heads at those boost numbers. Impressive. When you ran out of spring on the wastegates you should have sprayed it a little.
Great test, but ya we need to do this one again maybe with a big single turbo.
really like the 351W videos. I believe they are very comparable to the LS with the exception of when ran with stock cylinder heads. I'd love to see you do a dyno test with a pair of explorer heads on a 351W, maybe a old school alphabet X cam and a explorer intake to see what a true low buck, junkyard builder can do. There's lots of us guys running combo's on the cheap and this would be a great test.
Yea the ls does better when ran with stock cylinder heads because for one its a much more modern engine and for two the 351 never really was in any performance applications after like 1971 they come from 80s and 90s trucks usually lol. So of course the ls is gonna do better with stock heads vs stock heads. You get some decent flow on the cylinder heads to match the ls the windsor is very comparable.
Me personally I cudnt see if it had standard or .30 replacement pistons but the early 69-73 351w dish top don't have valve reliefs the later dish Pistons I'm almost positive they do maybe that's why ya had the clearance issue???& We all know efi Windsor have no forged internals & possibly the dremel valve reliefs wacked the rotating assembly balance off enough to create some nasty harmonic disturbances..... Keep doing your thing Richard we love it right here in Phoenix AZ
I would go with a super Victor Edelbrock intake. Keep timing soft at peak torque and let the boost to the work. I also think backpressure was a issue, a slightly larger turbine would help also. I have the almost the same setup with a s480/96 and it makes over 700 to the wheels on 17lbs. This is also a stock bottom end deal. I tore mine apart at this power level and everything still looked great. It should make a 1000hp easy without hurting parts. I would like to see this test again with the above changes and I am sure the outcome would be different.
Definitely need more windsor motor videos with todays parts. Maybe some tests with boosted motors and holley sniper tbi vs efi
In my experience, the larger intake valve (The AFR 205's use a 2.08" valve) will contact that factory piston exactly in the area you have cut out with a longer duration cam. Not a real issue with the small factory valves, but certainly when going 2.02" or larger.
I too would love to see you revisit this. 351w stock bottom end. Stick with the 205 heads, but a better cam selection is in order. The intake, I would love the see a holley hi ram on it. Also try to get a hot side properly sized to the turbos. T4 or even a t6. I really think with proper tuning, managing the torque with timing at torque peak can yield great power. After the stock bottom.end tests, I wonder what a forged rod and piston combo could do for this 🤔.
Sir you brought motivation that i can do something spectacular with my ‘92 F-150 flareside with 351W. I bought the truck off the showroom floor when I was a Cpl. in the Marine Corps. I live in the Common wealth of California so wouldn’t be able to do your mods and make it streetable. Any input you or any of your subscribers can offer on potential / sequential upgrades to my engine would be greatly appreciated. It has always been driven conservatively except I drove it cross country pulling a travel trailer and blew out the E4OD torque converter seal. Thanks!
You did what you could with what you had. I would just like to see once you fixed your limitations from this test to see what really makes them explode
Yeah I'd like to see some small and big block mopar stuff. The late model magnum 360s are everywhere. Also a big bang modern hemi basically some mopar stuff!
Link 550 Yup, I got 4 of em sitting under my bench waiting for some boost!
He has done big bang mopars
Impressive 1000hp with a stock bottom end
You just got greedy with stock parts!!
Great video thank you
How about a stroked 393 or 408
Same cylinder heads but with a solid roller cam
You would be surprised on what cam you use with blowers, The Lsa needs to be big to let more air in, a big hairy cam with a 108 LSA would be a disaster need a 114 !!
I remember when this article came out I was blown away with the power it made. I wouldn’t call making 1k on a SBE a screw up lol you were just trying some different stuff. I think you listed all the improvements that could have been made in the video though TBH.
XD XD XD Richard, when need an engine tear down of that blown motor. theres where you went wrong if anything that would help some of us "less experienced" guys understand what cause high hp catastrophes and how to further prevent them. it understandable if not though, this type of content is plenty educational and very much entertaining . but if you run out of ideas.......there's one more for ya
Cast pistons and stock rod bolts , broached shoulder across the bid end of the rod that the rod bolt sits on , are all areas of weakness .
i would love to see you do this with a dart block and mild build love the show thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i'm a chevy guy but the W is definitely my favourite ford. if only ford didn't make it so complicated to mix and match. first experience with that was buying a tunnel ram and carbs for a 302, polishing everything and attempting to install it on my nephews 351W in his gorgeous 68 cougar xr7 gt. Totally my fault but knowing what ford pieces are compatible is a science and a pia
the curve was unreal. 351 w, who needs after market blocks!
When you think about it, as far as ring clearances go, a junkyard engine will work well, considering it probably has enough ring wear to compensate for the boost of the turbo. The weak links would be the cast pistons more than anything. The Windsor crank is beefy enough at 3" mains and large rod journals, even though it is cast. Other than any oil clearance or piston to valve issues, it should work well enough. Impressive, no matter how you scatter it.
I'm impressed that a stock block even took 800Hp, I am building a 600hp stock block now, I am no longer worried about the block.
Hey Richard this is great, you have given me a idea to go with my old svo that I have swap a Windsor in and turbo it. I built a engine master ford burger engine and love it, but boost would be JOYGASM.
Liked this test alot. Once you got the wastegates straightened out would low timing numbers in the affected area help the high tq number issues.
Yeah.....that was awesome!!