Songs with Confusing Intros
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- Опубликовано: 27 окт 2020
- At the start of a song, it takes our ears a moment to latch on to where the downbeat is, where the "one" is. So sometimes, songwriters can shift the beat in such a way that it throws off our internal sense of rhythm, leading to a confusing and ear-catching introduction. Today I'm taking a closer look at some of the best examples of this sneaky rhythmic trick in action!
Check out Paul David's video on 'Sex on Fire': • Why do so many people ...
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❗ EXTRA DISCUSSION: I'm finding it really interesting that many of you hear "All Along The Watchtower" as having a three eighth note anacrusis, not a two eighth note anacrusis (in other words, it not having a confusing intro!). It doesn't matter what I do, when I count along with that intro, I always latch onto the first chord change as the downbeat (as described in the video). I definitely think it's the placement of the chord changes that's dictating the downbeat for me, but it's amazing that other people can hear it another way! People seem quite split on this one. For example, when you look at the sheet music available for it on MusicNotes, some show it my way, and some show it the other way! www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0074354 As always, it seems, no matter how much you learn about music, it never gets any less mysterious! 😄
I was going to mention that. I hear it as being and-four-and-one-and-two.
I'll just paraphrase what I said before, that these things are not mysterious if you think about the likelihood that The Beatles, or Jimi Hendrix, or Led Zeppelin, or others composed complex, multi-metered intros. I think that is very unlikely, not because they wouldn't have been capable, but because it makes more sense that they simply didn't start on count one. In "All Along the Watchtower," when the lead guitar comes in, it follows the same "and-four-and-one-and two" count as the intro chording, so I think that's just how he was feeling it. When my students come up against this, I clap along on the downbeats after we've determined what count the intro starts on. That seems to enable them most of the time to "unhear" what they thought it was.
I still hear it The wrong way too this day. But a good starting point is to listen Bob Dylans version, then you'll be able to hear The syncopation in The guitar riff
It's just in 4/4 all the way through. It's confusing on first listen, I agree (mostly because of the drums, I think) but the clue is to go check out the ending. There they play the same motif as a background for the solo, and that gives away the time signature of the intro. :-)
To me the drums are to blame, as the snare hits on the anacrusis but the downbeat is left empty. Also, the guitar phrase ends after the downbeat (metacrusis), the whole thing is briefly misleading. Quite elegant.
david bennett piano essentials: a beatles example and a radiohead example
The only musicians that exist are Radiohead and The Beatles
May he never change.
YES.
When I was 14 I got my first MP3 player and, no joke, all I had on it for the first year was The Beatles back catalogue and each Beatle's solo back catalogue.
@@DavidBennettPiano that’s amazing 😂
"High Hopes" by Pink Floyd. The bell that fades in becomes the off beat when the piano part starts.
Similar concept in “Runaway” by Kanye West. The piano by itself sounds like it’s on the 1, then when the beat starts you suddenly realize it’s on the 2
Lol I should’ve scrolled down like 2 comments before saying exactly the same thing someone else has already said
I was waiting for this example.
This was the first one I thought of.
I don't listen to this album enough. It's the first CD I bought, but I end up listening to Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here on a more regular basis
I always counted it on the fourth beat
Strangely enough, All Along The Watchtower makes perfect sense to me because I hear the guitar riff start on the and of 3, not beat 4. Crazy how different people can hear it differently!
Same. I’m reading the transcription in the video going, “the transcription’s off by an eight note, not the intro.”
I can’t hear this wrong. I think it is brilliant what Jimi did but I don’t find it hard to follow. Anyone else?
Same with Rock and Roll. Start on the ‘and’ of 3 and it makes perfect sense.
Try ‘Tell Me Something Good’ by Rufus & Chaka Khan, Lonely Boy by Andrew Gold, or Frontiers by Journey.
Agreed
The intro to Marquee Moon has a confusing effect - when the drums come in they seem to play across the guitar part as if they have started on the wrong beat, but once your ear discern where the downbeat is the effect is really uplifting.
"Hey Ya" starts with a countoff of "1, 2, 3" on beats 2, 3, and 4. It never bugged me but confused the hell out of a drummer I played with in college
For Hey Ya the more confusing part is the measure of 2/4 thrown in on every phrase. 3 bars 4/4, 1 bar 2/4, 2 bars 4/4.
You end up with a with a delightfully weird 22 beat groove
@@rosskeenum4413 Yeah, the funny part is that drummer had no problem with that. I personally find neither aspect confusing but the bars of 2/4 make that song fun to play when it could otherwise be pretty boring
@Director_Coulson yes, years ago when my band decided to add this song to our set list, I had never heard it before, but when we listened to it at a practice, I thought "what a way to screw you up right from the top."
Hey Ya is the only hit song to be in 22/4 time 🧐
Not an intro, but I've always found it impossible to latch on to the "don't worry now, don't worry now" section of Bandages by Hot Hot Heat. Despite knowing on paper where it is, and counting loudly along, (and despite the time signature not actually changing at all) my brain refuses to hear " *DON'T* worry now", instead of "don't *WORRY* now".
I can hear what you mean! There is an added beat at the start of the section, but then a skipped beat at the end which cancels it out so they never really leave 4/4! I think it's the drums which is dictating that we hear it this way - clever little trick!
I can't hear it that way, I only hear "DON'T worry now" @_@
WOAH A MAP MAN!
Jay you are the man! Greetings from Finland
Hello, nice to see you here.
Cannonball by the Breeders is another good example. Love the intro but it's hard to nail doing a cover when you're first learning it.
Another band Kim Deal played in, The Pixies, crafted a similarly tricky intro with Kim's opening bass line to the song 'Gigantic'.
I also remember squinting at first trying to figure out where to land the downbeat to start the opening vocal on a song that sounds trickier than it is: 'A Bell Will Ring' by Oasis.
I love these deceptive intros...
@@indiegun This reply is crazy, because I noticed that for the first time after re-listening just yesterday!
@@officialbandjonger
Awesome! That's a crazy coincidence. I've always loved covering these songs no other bands really do.
I checked out your channel BTW. You guys sound really cool. You should try and do some studio-type recording. Even a home-studio setup would be a great next step. Heck - even a Zoom R16 or R24 would let you guys put out some stellar multi-track recordings. I'd love to hear your stuff in a bit cleaner format!
Never really noticed that about Cannonball. Always sounds like it drops in on the one to me!
@@breakfreak3181Yeah listening to it now, it doesn’t sound rhythmically irregular at all. Maybe the confusion is coming from the bass modulating upwards as the beat hits?
"I Just Wanna Live" by Good Charlotte always gets me. The strings in the intro sound like they start on the off beat because of the dominance of the bass note but when the drums come in they're on the beat and it throws me completely. No matter how many times I've listened to it
this better have a radiohead example in it
😏😏
Identikit came to my mind.
Beatles, check. Radiohead, check.
@@DavidBennettPiano alot of amsp has some good examples of this i feel, its hard to find a beat in the start of desert island disk, identikit and the numbers your first few listens, also excellent video as per usual!
actually Pyramid Song has two minutes of confusing intro/song until the drums start
He somehow managed to forget the mother of all confusing intros: Kinks' You Really Got Me.
Yes! Took a while to understand that the intro riff and the chorus riff are the same, because the intro sounded like it's starting from the on beat
Yep, that's the one I thought would make it for sure! I still can't figure it out when I listen to it. LOL
What? You find the intro confusing? Hmm.....I just went and listened and I always hit the "one" on the second guitar stroke. And I've been trying to hear it another way but can't.
What guitar stroke do you hear the "one" hit on?
Is it "DUH duh duh duh DUH"
....Instead of "duh DUH duh duh DUH"?
@@terrypussypower exactly, that's how I heard the riff for the very first time, you could really expect drums to come on the first note
If you're trying to hear it, try to imagine drum hits on the first and the last note of the riff
@@terrypussypower I've always heard it "DUH duh duh duh DUH." Then it would switch when the drums started. A couple days ago, I tried really hard to hear it the correct way. After listening to it over & over, I was finally able to hear it as "duh DUH duh duh DUH." It was very difficult, but I think I can finally hear it correctly from the beginning now.
Music is so simple and so complex.
What a wonderful channel you have here.
I just hope it's not all musicians watching and it's alot of people learning music theory for the first time.
Not to mention all the wonderful songs your introducing to people
I always got confused when my band was playing the intro of "you really got me" by the kinks, none of the rest of my band seemed to notice anything but the second note of the riff starts on the beat, not the first, and i was glad i wasnt the drummer that had to figure out where to come in
The great thing about having zero music knowledge is that I can't even define what the downbeat is, therefore I can never be tricked into thinking a piece of music is supposed to do anything a certain way.
I just enjoy what I'm hearing.
That’s not how feeling music inherently works. You can still have a feel for these things through unconscious exposure to rhythm norms without having to have a knowledge of it.
@@SirArthurTheGreat There's a video where Harry Connick Jr. "adds" a beat to a song in a live performance because the audience was clapping on the "wrong" beat.
Other than the band being excited about how now the audience was clapping on the "right" beat, nobody else could tell...or cared.
You sound like the kind of person who will stop at nothing to not just defend but exalt ignorance. You're not content in just existing with your pride in your lack of knowledge about anything, you are actively offended that somebody could WANT to attain knowledge about anything and feel personally attacked by this so you endeavor to undermine the validity of that pursuit.
You remind me of the last American president.
@@th3giv3r Incorrect. I've tried to learn the difference between clapping on the beat, or clapping on the downbeat (or whatever music people call the "wrong" time to clap, even if the entire audience is clapping at that time).
I can't tell the difference. And yet, I enjoy the music. Unlike certain educated assholes, who can't enjoy a piece of music unless it's "correct," according to whatever bullshit theory they have learned and know.
Ignorance is sometimes bliss, and there's nothing wrong with that.
You might "understand" modern art in a way that allows you to enjoy a giant red square painted on a blue background, and why it's perfectly okay for you to have paid $17 million for it. Good for you. You just blew $17 million on a red square on a blue field. Ignorance depends on your point of view.
@@escaperoomleander1948 Ignorance is never a good thing, wtf are you on about. Complacency with ignorance is expected, defending it is asinine. There's a reason why ignorant people are easily forgivable because "they didn't know any better". But you're an example of willful ignorance, the kind that nobody likes.
Also making a strawman with modern art doesn't help your case, you just sound like a tired old man.
Another confusing intro can Be Found On “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” By Tears For Fears
That is one of my most favorite songs💗
I never seem to get thrown off by it, but I can get where that opening embellishment can throw people off...
Yes!
I've always noticed this - PERFECT example.
YES! That's the one I've never figured out. It seems to me as if they had 2 tunes and someone spliced them together in a drunken moment and it was accidentally released that way.
Although I have been listening to it for decades, the drum intro for "In the Air Tonight" by Phil Collins always takes me a bar or three to pick out the downbeat.
Yes, was the first thing that came to mind.
You can think the phrase “Stranger to you and me” as the 1 2 3 4 count before the fill
I always love Tragically Hip’s “The Darkest One”. What starts out so confusing wonderfully merges into a tight syncopated groove. Canadian genius at work. 😊
One intro that always confused me was Everybody Wants To Rule The World by Tears for Fears, took me a long time to figure that one out
oh hi jcthefluteman
I think it's like 5/4 time or something like that which makes it sound a bit weird
its just 12/8?
I found it confusing as well
I recall the odd beat being analyzed in some of the YT drum covers. Or maybe the guitar covers.
Misty Mountain Hop by Led Zeppelin starts with the Piano intro which only identifies as being on the off beat once Bonham's drums kick in around the 5th bar. Always gets me!
Can't believe how long I had to scroll to find Misty Mountain Hop
I'm really fond of the way Between the Wheels by Rush does this, it's a really cool effect especially in the r30 live version
For me, it's 777-9311 by Morris Day and the Time. Once you latch on to that A1 drum riff, once the downbeat comes in, you have this moment of shock that makes you feel like you're running away from the beat. I love and hate it at the same time😂
For the 'watchtower' hendrix example, it makes a lot more sense to me if you put beat one on the fourth eighth note/quaver chord of the opening riff (and 4 and 1 and 2), rather than the third that you use (4 and 1 and 2 and). Then, there's no need to add any extra beat anywhere, it's just 4/4 all the way through - no need to overcomplicate...
it sounds like the cover he used accents that chord too to really hammer home the '4/4iness' of it
I feel the guitar laying the downbeat on the second 8th note, so there is a full beat added somewhere after. To me makes more sense that way.
I felt it the same way!
Went back to Hendrix to check it out. You are right, there is no extra beat. But I still feel that the snare drum and the guitar kind of mislead my ears on the downbeat on the first measure.
@@konkey-dong the easiest way to start "re-teaching" yourself how to count it is to splice a count-off onto it. It starts on "3-and.."
Beetlebum by Blur - he even counts it in at the start yet it still throws me every time, because the vocals sound like they are off time if you count with the timing - maybe Damon Albarn was also confused and they left it in the mix!
My thoughts too
This is a good shout. Listen to the slides in the main riff during the intro compared to when the verse vocals come in. In the intro it sounds like it's coming in on the 4, but because Graham Coxon strums the D chord at the end off the riff for an additional note, when the vocals come in it shifts the slide onto the 1.
Great shout, Beetlebum is the absolute worst for this. Get it wrong in my head every single time. I just always think the slide note is the third note because it kind of replicates the snare in a drum beat... but the slide is the first note.
Checked out the Blur song and it is straight as an arrow. 🤷🏽♂️
I was going to comment this. This song throws me off every time.
One song intro that jars me upon listening every time; is Peaches “F*€k the pain away”, it takes me a moment to readjust to the beat
One Ocean by Chevelle is another great example. It has such wonderful guitar intro, and when the rest of the band starts playing it becomes even more beautiful
Less than 1 minute into the video and we already have a Beatles example. Love it
Tattooed Love Boys by The Pretenders is a great example of this. The time signature swaps rapidly throughout the intro and the instrumental bits of the song and it creates an effect where it kinda jerks your brain out. It switches from 7/4 to 8/4 repeatedly iirc.
One of my favorite songs of all time
You Really Got Me is the first song that springs to mind. Gets me every time.
The intro of Beatles' Drive my Car is pretty confusing, too.
I play bass on this in a Tribute band. I had to throw aside any attempt at a count and just allow myself to find it naturally. Now, I come in on my intro riff exactly like the record every time. How or why? I have no idea; it just happens, naturally.
Yes!!!
We rehearsed it soo many times - and it still does not work when you try to count. Just like you say, it comes naturally
I was not expecting anyone to talk about the Rasmus in 2020...!
It's been a crazy year hasn't it!
A freaking Finnish band used as an example. What a year
@@GameplayKuningas Torille!
Right?! I was a little surprised I even remembered the song to be honest but my inner middle school emo was rocking out like a doofus nonetheless.
Came to the comment section to find this.
You’re videos are SO GOOD! Lots of prep. Brilliant! Great teacher.
Thank you!
Thanks for these videos. I'm a novice myself, but find this absolutely fascinating.
I really appreciate all the time that you put into these videos and your willingness to share your valuable and insightful expertise.
"Spirits in the Material World" by the Police gets me every time.
I hear it plain as day but those reggae upbeats on the chords are there to mess with rock listeners (Probably not so much Bob Marley fans.)
Here's a way to hear it correctly - on the opening drum fill, the final note of that IS the ONE...
I am a bass player and this is one song I mention as being impossible to figure out
I play bass, and one way I like to wind up drummers is to suggest that we play any song with Stuart Copeland on drums. Never fails to get a rise.
Sure, "Spirits," but how can you bring that up and not also mention "Invisible Sun"? That intro gives me nothing to hang on to.
finally someone
“Lonely Boy” by Andrew Gold does this. The piano intro sounds firmly on the beat, then the backing percussion comes in on the apparent “off beat” and things feel unsettled, then the more prominent drums on the prechorus undeniably establishes that the piano was offbeat the whole time.
'Lonely Boy' by Andrew Gold is a good example.
Also, Foghat's 'Take it or Leave it'.
I've been keeping a playlist on Spotify called "Offbeat" for exactly this type of songs. Will add the ones from this video to the playlist.
You should link it (and add Automatic Stop)
The intro to “Hold the Line” by Toto has always confused my ear until the drums enter and clear it up!
Me too !! The first few times I’ve heard the song I was rly thrown off !
Is it regular or do they throw an extra beat in there?
@@dickiebobradio1304 It's regular. The initial snare hit is on 4, and the piano comes in on 1.
As a keyboardist, I had to learn to count triplets on the count-off to the song to nail it. 12/8 time signature with hemiola syncopations.
@@robeads6913 David Paich of Toto was inspired by Sly and the Family Stone's intro to Hot Fun in the Summertime
Just by the title I knew Sex on Fire would be in here - I've yet to meet a guitarist that starts it right...
As a guitarist I've gotta say we (well, I) start it just fine, it's getting the drummer to come in correctly that takes forever!
@@Twannnng lol :)
The guitar is the first instrument meaning the drum is responsible for getting the timing right...
@@Spectrefreezy What if you're the drummer getting it right but as soon as you enter, the guitarist mixes it up? That could also happen. :P Worse if they complain that you're the one entering at the wrong beat.
@@krautgazer I'm sure that could happen and has happened. That would be unpleasant.
I think bands have those issues all the time, but it can be fun if you're playing with friends and you get to master the song together!
"Lights out" by Royal Blood. Such a very simple intro. Just 7 eighth notes, but with no context it can be enough to misplace where you hear the beat. Interesting how our brains fill in the gaps when not enough information is available. Music is a great reflection of how our brains work. Beautiful!
This is the first song that came to mind for me, iconic!
Depeche Mode's 'Blasphemous Rumours' is a good example of a song with a confusing intro ...where two different beats compete with each other, before both give way to a different third beat.
Another example is David Bowie's 'Up the hill backwards'. I think there are several Bowie songs from various stages of his career that had confusing intros.
What are you talking about? Blasphemous Rumors begins exactly on the "one" and is a perfectly straightforward 4/4 when the kickdrum sets in on the same "one". One pattern later, the bass enters on the exact _same_ "one". Just count! There is *nothing* irregular about this song's intro!
"Policy of Truth"
I hadn’t heard Blasphemous Rumours before and I really like it, thanks for introducing me to it!
Ha I got one but it’s super unpopular, Egg- Symphony NO.2…hurts to listen but it hasn’t the most confusing intro that I’ve ever heard probably in the world of music
born under punches by talking heads has to have one of the most disorienting and terrifying song openings ever
Holy heck...Rhythmically it's not all that confusing to me, but what the everloving jeebs is the bass doing?! O_O
i think the entire song is quite disorienting
"Everybody wants to rule the world" by Tears for Fears has a rhythmically tricky into.
This song. I know how to count it properly (now) but it still feels very forced and unnatural when I do it. I think it's because I had this rhythm in my head a certain way (shifted an eighth) for so long, starting when I was a kid
That's more due to the swing groove I feel
I think what also throws me off is that the first guitar note starts before the down beat and slides up to the note on the down beat, so there is no transient happening on the first down beat to orient myself
Yup. Now it's all too familiar, but I remember it confusing me.
Yes! The guitar solo sounds like 3/4 played on the downbeat in 3/2 time with an extra 8th note at the end until the band comes in and establishes the 6/8 time signature.
my example of this was always 'Mind Eraser, No Chaser' by Them Crooked Vultures. I remember hearing it as a kid and feeling the whole placement of the riff flip as the drums came in, blew my little mind 😂
1:51 - "our ears have no way of knowing it" ... thanks for saying this. I always thought, I'm a bad musician, because I haven't realized what's really going on there. Now I know that we (the listeners) have been deliberately tricked. These "confusing intros" are ... so confusing 🙂
The Beatles drive my car, I even found an outtake with the count in, but it still throws me! I guess when you hear a song for so many years a certain way, your brain gets trained!
As a bass player, this took me so long to get right but now I get it every time
The Rasmus. Man, digging out the back catalogue! I haven't heard that in the last 15 years,
crime of the century, not the intro but the 2nd part of the song, its amazing
I can think of a few:
Circus Maximums - Havoc
Muse - Thoughts of a Dying Atheist
Duck Tales - Moon Theme
Coheed and Cambria - Number City
NOFX - The Separation of Church and Skate
Haha I was literally just playing the moon riff earlier today. Just something I’ve always noodled on to see if anyone else in the room is as big a nerd as me. Damn I loved that game, and something about that song always struck out to me. Lol maybe that’s why I still play it…reminds me of simpler times
“Rock and Roll” is best counted while imagining the drums are doing a “Johnny B Goode” style intro.
Also, “Freedom of Choice” by Devo always got me.
Swap Meet by Nirvana was the first time I became consciously aware of this happening
Same here
It still takes me until measure 3 that my brain actually recognizes the correct timing.
Yes! Swap Meet is the first song that came to mind when starting to watch this video. I just tried listening to it again, and I just can't get into the correct timing of the riff until half way through the intro (just like Michael Gum said)
@@peterjarahian3511 I still remember the first time I heard it. "Da da da, da da da dada, da da da" etc thinking "this is a really weird time signature then the drums kick in and it became a completely different riff, blew my mind
Very Ape plays a similar game with its intro.
"You Really Got Me", by Van Halen was the first I noticed, back in the 70s.
Great video! I've always loved this type of time-foolery 😸 I think I may have just coined a phrase!
Fake Empire by The National. The first verse and chorus are just vocal and piano, and your ear is convinced it is in 4/4, but then the drums come in, and without changing the melody it is now in 3/4. Great stuff!
“You Really Got Me” by The Kinks is a great example of this! It always throws me off at first
yesss that was the first thing that came to mind
The first time its confusing but if you start again after just understanding it gets easy the second time
"All You Need Is Love" by The Beatles is another. Starts in 4/4 and then alternates 3/4 and 4/4
Eddie Van Halen's intro is even more so
I would say that Zeppelin's "Misty Mountain Hop" has a more confusing intro than "Rock And Roll", but probably not as fun to explain.
YES! Thank you! That's my other lifelong conundrum.
I just went and gave it a listen and confirmed why it is confusing. (Haven't listened to that song in like, 25 years.) The pickup is only a problem the first time you hear the song, but after you know how it goes, you know to feel that opening pickup on the "and of 4." The thing that was always continuing to throw me and keep me second guessing myself is the phrasing and optional way of interpreting the vocal melody. But if you just keep counting in 4, it will all come out in the wash, but until they land on the chorus (which settles into a 2/2 feel), it just feels so uncertain... AND I LOVE IT!
@@DonyaLane I've always found that intro "logical" in terms of tempo. Maybe it's because I've listened the song uncountable times so I got used to it lol
@@harleck9119 , yeah... kinda like what I was saying above... it's only a problem the first time you hear it. But after that, you then know where it lands. It was fun revisiting this song! Great record!
@@DonyaLane agree!!
Awesome video and compilation! The intro of You're So Cool by Jonathan Bree plays with that upbeat as well!
Another huge one for this is “One I’m Waiting For” by Relient K. As a drummer I struggled on this track for literally years in highschool when I used to play through the album. I could do pretty much everything else on the album “drum-for-drum” but the first track consistently confuses the hell out of me. I’m still not totally sure what’s going on. It’s impossible to count
The same thing with "You Really Got Me" by The Kinks
I was gonna say this
My god that beginning riff always confuses me lol
They really got us.
And for that matter, Eruption by Van Halen.
True, two completely different tempos
“Going Crazy” by David Lee Roth and “Kickstart My Heart” by Motley Crue. I can’t force myself to hear those intros correctly.
with you on kickstart my heart, that always trips me up
Van Halen - Panama
@@martinhroch344 what's wrong with that intro?
@@benparsons4979 Its timing is kinda weird and it had confused me for a long time.
@@martinhroch344
I've been playing Panama song for years on guitar and found nothing odd about the intro.
What is it in the beginning of the song that gets to you? Very curious. 🤔
All of your videos are excellent and educational, but this one has an extra dose of fun, I guest because it shows the sneakiness of our favorite songwriters. My vote for this category is Mother by The Police from Synchronicity. A downbeat cymbal crash on top of a 7/4 shouty tune! Most people dislike this song, but I think it matches the energy of Synchronicity II.
All Along The Watchtower intro always gets me, and I've been listening to it for years!
Dead clever how you source all the tracks so that you don’t infringe on copyright ✌🏻
It's a bloody mission! Thanks for the appreciation 😃😃
Your videos are the best. I love your musical analyses. Not a lot of channels like this. A million movie analysis channels, video game analysis, or music theory channels, but this is by far the best channel even attempting this. I'm a huge supporter even if I can't do patreon or anything right now (family is recovering from losing a child after a lengthy cancer battle, so it isn't that I don't want to).
Thanks Troy! I'm really glad you enjoy my videos! And I hope your family is ok 🙂🎵
@@DavidBennettPiano My pleasure. Thank you. It's been hard: little Adrian was the sweetest, smartest, kindest, funniest little boy I've ever met. His absence is felt deeply every day. We are all trying to keep going. His big brother turned seven in the summer and it's been rough on him, as you can imagine. But in the good news department: we have a baby girl coming at the end of January and we're very excited to meet her! I also had to leave my job to take care of little Adrian full-time, and when I started looking for work again, COVID happened, but I'm finally working at a great place that helps people, starting earlier this month, so that's a lot less stress. Sorry to spill my guts out! But I appreciate you taking the time to be nice.
Just what I needed by the cars is a great example of this!
The song "I broke my own rule" by They Might be Giants is another great example. Takes a minute to gather the rhythmic context.
I wrote that song! Really enjoying this discussion from three years ago. My personal bête noire was the intro to "Pleasant Valley Sunday" by the Monkees. It took me until last year to figure out where the downbeat in the guitar intro lands (on the second note, it turns out).
"Rope" - Foo Fighters , always messed with my head when trying to drum along
OMG yes, you get confused TWICE before the drums come in
"I'm Free" by the Who gets me every time.
You're not the only one. Watch a live video of "I'm Free," Pete is clearly planting his foot on the downbeat for Keith's sake. LOL.
I scroll down the comments quickly to see if anyone else was going to mention “I’m free“. I will have to watch a live video and see if that helps me figure it out after all these decades of failure.
@@scottmelton8414 - The Who eventually changed the "I'm Free" rhythm up a bit on the movie soundtrack and live thereafter, I assume in order to increase the chances that everybody could find the downbeat together!
Great Channel! For me the one that immediately comes to mind is the drum solo intro by John Bonham in Led Zeppelin's "Rock and Roll". I could never find the downbeat until Jimmy Paige comes in!😄
My favorite example is A.M. 180 by Grandaddy. Totally makes you think it's in 3/4 and then the drums make you realize it's 6/8.
Yes.
Yeah, that's a good one (a good example and a great tune)
Unchained by Van Halen. I was convinced for years that there’s some tricky time signature stuff going on in the intro, but I finally realized Eddie was just accenting a different beat on the second go around than on the first. Mind blowing for such a small change to throw me off so much.
For the Q&A:
When you arranged Frere Jacques in 7/4 did you experience the amazing emotional response that many other people have had when they listen to it? That is, did it "move" you? Or were you surprised by how emotive people find it?
Great question! :)
DAMN, In the Shadow by The Rasmus surely has one sick intro! The initial neutral/static beat, the guitar, the way they are not in sync with the guitar starting half a beat earlier than expected... very nice job indeed
Great video! And beautifully explained as always. I always liked Blur’s Beetlebum for this exact reason. Happy listening along thinking I know where the downbeat is, only to have a whisked away from under my feet. Quality! x
Oh, and the middle section of Sit Down by James. Confuses me some what! Not an intro mind x
And then there's Cream. Sunshine of your Love starts with the snare on the downbeat, so you immediately get the correct sense of rhythm. But then after two repeats of the intro riff, Ginger Baker keeps the snare on the downbeat, and toms on the following eighths. Since we're used to snare being on the upbeats, the our ears tend to switch to that.
And so when the chorus comes in, it messes our brain rhythm up.
I don't hear it like that. For me, the singing and guitar cement the snare as the downbeat. It's not hard for me to feel it the way you describe because as you say we're used to that drum rhythm.
I wonder how many people naturally feel it each way.
Don't see anything confusing with the SOYL at all. N.S.U. on the other hand gets me every time. Just brilliant.
"Misty Mountain Hop" by Led Zeppelin. It is said that actually John Bonham entered in the wrong beat (in a way that even caused a change in the main riff, with Page and Jones trying to adapt it). The band liked it and incorporated the mistake.
You did a video on some Beatles Intro, I forgot which one, but it got the same idea. Great video as always!
The intro to the Kinks You really got me always gets me.
“Minute By Minute” by the Doobie Brothers. The keyboard intro makes you think it’s in a driving 4/4 beat, but then the drums start in and you realize the song is actually in a slower 6/8.
do you think "It keeps you running" would also fall into that catagory?
I love to play "Minute By Minute" alone or with a band for exactly that reason!
“Marquee Moon” by Television is a masterclass in offbeat playing in 4/4, mixolydian voicing, and song structures. Check it out!
Television is a criminally underrated band. Their first album is one of my all time favorites.
@@johnmcqueen8827 Great record, great playing and great sounds, from drums to bass and guitars, love it! Though I heard a live somewhere, from 77/78 or thereabout that was even better than the record, the guitars were killer!!!
incredible song
@@johnmcqueen8827 underrated is not the same as underappreciated or simply not widely known. People who have listened to Television rate them very highly.
I was going to mention the Kings of Leon song but then you beat me to the punch. Glad to know that my hearing wasn't wrong about it. The guitar always sounds different to me depending on if I listen to the song from the beginning or if I start midway through.
Loving this channel ❤
Thank you 😊
"Don't Pass Me By" by The Beatles, written by the one and only Ringo Starr
I guess he means the one and only Billy Shears :)
@@viktorkaposi8256 That would mean he got by with a little help from his friends.
Great suggestion! Also, side question... do you prefer "Don't Pass Me By" or "Octopus' Garden"?
Ringo Star sang for the Beatles as when Doug Clifford sang for the Credence Clearwater Revival : funny goliardic experiment (a drummer replacing the greater singers of the history) !
@@DavidBennettPiano i prefer dont pass me by
Pyramid song - intro, song starts, song ends, 100000 debates online and we still don’t know where the beat actually is. We have theories yes.
David has done an entire video on this actually.
Here’s the link: ruclips.net/video/MdZSOoOF5Ms/видео.html
what? pyramid song is just a mix of 3/4 and 2/4 bars on which dotted quarters float, if i remember it correctly
@@mukaria3734 It’s actually just in 4/4. It’s just a two bar loop of 2 dotted quarter notes, a tied (I’m forgetting the name) note, and then 2 dotted quarter notes. David had made it very simple.
A very strange song... As a drummer... I know this may seem bizarre (and I will be questioned on this), but trust me when I say that it really can be counted as 4/4 with all things considered... But again, I know there will be people who will over-complicate it and will separate each measure into an assortment of different time signatures... But in the end, it's really 4/4. I used to play to this song all the time.
i had a discussion on this song as part of a lecture last year (i’m an undergrad music student) - can confirm from my professors deep research into it that it’s in defo 4/4! we got played the intro and asked to guess what time signature it was in and not a single person got it right lol
Porcupine tree's sentimental has a REALLY confusing intro and verse(s)!
The piano at the beginning sounds like it's playing 8th notes, but playing a really weird 6+5+5+6+5+5+6+5, etc. The trick is that it's playing DOTTED 8th notes in 4/4, which creates a 3-4 polyrhythm with the underlying (hidden) pulse. The pattern repeats every 3 bars, but it's a 4 chord loop, so the piano's loop starts on a different beat (Shifted by a few 16th notes) every "repetition". It doesn't help that the drums aren't accenting the 1 and 3 beats. This is one of my favorite confusing intros!
Fascinating! 🍀 thank you!🍀
"Free Ride" by the Edgar Winter Group is another great example. I always hear that riff as if it begins on the downbeat, but it has a lead-in
I know Free Ride, and I've been actively trying to think of the song so I can hear what you're saying, but my mind keeps giving me Foghat instead 🤬
Holy shit. I thought it was only me with Bodysnatchers. That intro always drives me crazy.
Superb video - I totally agree with your ‘Bodysnatchers’ interpretation. The song that always gets me is ‘So He Begins To Lie’ by Bloc Party - even though I know what to expect, I can never get it!
you got one more sub, I'd like to hear more music theory topics like this.
Does anyone else find that the intro to "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" by Tears for Fears throws them off a bit?
I learned to play that on the piano this summer, and it took a lot of work to get the timing right. The timing is 3/4, (or maybe 12/8, but I'm not fancy), but the accented beats are quirky. ONE-two-three, one-TWO-three, ONE-two-three, one TWO-three...
Nice call Kodi
It will throw you off if you arent counting in 12/8 time. Instead of counting in 4, count in 8. There is also a guitar buildup where it gets more twangy just before the synth/drum part.
yes
YES! every time. Only when the synth comes in I hear the rhythm. Up until then, all bets are off...
Yeah that's a tough one. Especially because when that intro riff comes in again later in the bridge of the song, it's play more "on the beat" ... not the same as the intro. I've played this in a duo many times, and we always stumble into the opening
"Acquiesce" by Oasis has a confusing intro made confusing by how it begins with an entirely different song. In the studio version, you hear Noel singing "Morning Glory" with an acoustic guitar, which gets interrupted by licks from an electric guitar played at a slower tempo. Eventually, the electric guitar takes over and the actual song begins, but not before the listener has been disoriented by the two guitars and songs competing in the intro.
All great songs mentioned 👌
Thinking about it to much man lol. I never get confused about this sort of stuff.
The Who - I'm Free. Heard it 1,000 times and still screws with my brain.
Yeah that's a good one
Totally agree! What's crazy about it for me is that it doesn't just create a momentary confusion but it sustains that odd feeling. At least, for me! ;-)
Alan Parson’s “I robot” is a good example as well. Long intro. It starts about 1:45 into song but really impressive. You’ll be surprised.
Indeed. Plus with the delay, it can really throw you if say you listened in one earbud where the downbeat is and then listened to that same section with the other earbud where the delay is.
I was just checking to make sure someone mentioned this one.
Checked here, too. Love how bass saves the day and makes sense of the downbeat.
Hi David, I find the guitar intro of Drive my car mind blowing: I always hear the first note on beat 2 of a 4/4 bar, leaving me unsettled when the band comes in. I think the first note is a quaver upbeat to beat 1 of a 2 bar intro…and still every time it tricks me! 😅
The surprise would be a Led Zeppelin song that hadn’t been derived from something else. 🤔
The Beatles - Drive My Car
John Cale - A Child's Christmas in Wales
Radiohead - Reckoner
The Velvet Underground - All Tomorrow's Parties
Weezer - Holiday
Kanye West - Runaway
Drive My Car for sure
Yeah Drive My Car is a really good shout! Upon listening you’d think the intro lick starts on the one, but it’s really the “and” of 4!
Drive my car is great: it’s at the same time unnecessarily complicated and yet completely natural
"Milky Chance - Stolen Dance" both the intro and ending
Yes I was about to comment this!
I have never noticed that!
Beetlebum by Blur has recently appeared in my life and I can't stop listening the weird change that the intro has
One that always tricks my mind is Afuera by Caifanes. The song starts with a simple electric guitar riff, that you interpret as a standard straight 8th-note. However, when the band kicks in you get the shift, and you understand that the riff is actually in triplets! Pretty cool effect.
It’s a very syncopated 6/8 then when the drums come in it goes to 3/4 and then 4/4 with the high hats still paying 3/4 over it. It’s awesome. Very hard to wrap around at first though you’re right