The strangest side effect of starting this channel must be that David now is forced to have an encyclopedic knowledge of Beatles and Eagles cover bands.
Tell Me Something Good- Rufus Lonely Boy- Andrew Gold Beautiful Girls- Van Halen Stairway to Heaven (middle breakdown section)- Led Zeppelin The king of all will always be Black Dog- Led Zeppelin No song ever again will be so accessible while being so rhythmically confusing. It’s really miraculous if you think about it. Most songs eventually “square up” in a listener’s head and make sense, whereas Black Dog constantly hides the “one” but for some reason nobody seems to care.
@@Schlemiel-schlimazel I’ve known that it starts on the “and” of one forever, but I just can’t hear it right until about halfway through the first verse.
@@vjmacintyre I've arranged Hold The Line, and I hear it in 6/8 too, but 6/8 & 3/4 metrical games are my favourite kind of rhythmic gesture (like in Ravel's Chanson Romanesque or Bernstein's America). The difference between 6/8 and 12/8 largely depends on tempo, IMO, and Hold The Line isn't fast enough to need to feel a 12/8 pulse in 2 6s rather than 4 3s, at least for me.
@@john-vincentsaddic6335 The counting did seem forced, or maybe I have just heard the song so many times that it seems natural to me? I KNOW when the drum is coming in.
Nah that’s just individual. I’ve always tripped up on misty mountain hop. Always comes to mind when I think of misleading beats. But some people just never felt it was misleading. Completely disagree that the guitar riff makes anything clear by itself.
I thought I wasn't confused because my counting lined up with the beat later but I just played the beginning of the song about 20 times trying to count and trying to observe how I count it and finally came to conclusion that I start it just as wrong as David but once the drums start, I subconsciously shift the counting by the eighth note without even noticing. As for the All Along the Watchtower case, I remember very well that discussion how a lot of people got it correctly from the beginning. Here I'm completely on David's side, I tried like really hard to count it the right way, but even after I figured out exactly which note is the first beat and trying to count from there, I just physically couldn't. There's too much confusion. However, I can't understand, how David can hear Hold the Line as being in 4/4. The groups of three are accented, at least on the original recording (can't really hear it on this cover version), so the 12/8 rhythm is clear... but I still start on the wrong 8th, so I do get confused, just not for the same reason.
Waiting for the next time 'Hold the Line' comes on the pub jukebox, so I can rub my chin sagely, then nod, and say: "Ah, yes...a polymetric shift is required."
@@DavidBennettPiano Jeff Porcaro (on drums - of course) plays this as a shuffle, so the beat is in 4 triplets per bar, so effectively 12/8 or 12/4; but the chord change is off beat and is at the last of the triplets, hence giving unexpected feeling because it jumps a moment too early.
My band used to play this song and I recall working on the intro for most of a rehearsal. As a singer, I never really understood what was going on there, and then I learned to write music a couple of years ago and watching this channel and it’s starting to make sense to me.
I'm thinking of Pink Floyd's "Money". I _always_ hear the opening cha-ching and change in free time, then start counting when the sound effects start their regular 7/4 beat after that. But then a couple measures in, the music starts on beat _3_ of what I _thought_ I'd been counting, and counts its 7/4 from _there,_ shifting the rhythm over. ...All while the sound effects don't break their stride. Excellent video as ever! ❤
@mayorb3366 Soundgarden Spoonman goes back and forced between 4/4 and 7/4 . Nine Nails Nails March of the Pigs is in 7/8 and 4/4. How are you suppose to headbang to that?
Funny, I've never got that with Just What I Needed. Always heard that first BAH on the "and" of the 4 EDIT - on the 4 not the "and" - misremembered how it went.
I thought the same song, but I have a theory that the intro to that song was edited onto the basic track, and the funny timing during the first verse was just the band naturally falling out of time with each other before settling back into the groove. But thats just me
Me too and I think it's entirely because of the snare hit before the keys. If you're counting it in 4/4 the snare is on the 4, setting up the keys to start on 1
The Beach Boys’ “Caroline, No” is the one that trips me up every time, personally. The first tambourine hit make me think that’s the 1, when it’s really the 8 (or 4-and). I have gotten used to this, and now I imagine the intro is in 9/4 to make it easier for myself.
Where the drums come in on Everybody Wants to Rule The World by Tears for Fears. I’m a drummer and it’s still an interesting counting job. That and Manny Elias playing hi-hat on the middle note of each triplet grouping!
The worst one for me is Yours Is No Disgrace by Yes. My inner timekeeper has been hearing it wrong for 50 years and still insists that the fourth beat is the first one, even though I know perfectly well that it isn't!
I've heard of this referred to as "metric ambiguity", and it's one of my favorite musical devices. A lot of the time once I hear the correct pulse, I can't hear the wrong one anymore. There's two examples that get me nearly every time though, Wolf Parade's "it's a curse" right at the intro, and spaceghostpurrp's "been fweago" which happens about halfway through the song. The spaceghostpurrp one I swear I will NEVER hear it correctly before the beat actually drops.
It's a real shame that you always miss "Money Talks" by The Alan Parsons Project, one of my favorite songs with rhythmicly consufing intro, who nearly confuses the listener 2 times in only 2 bars. BTW a very great song by a criminally underrated band.
Spirits in the Material World still gets me every time, as even when Sting sings the first verse you think you’ve got it, and then the chorus kicks in and boom! - you’re completely off.
It sure _is_ a tricky one, also because of the pause that follows on the '1' beat 😅 But as soon as I got the info that the intro starts on the '3' beat, I did have it sussed with my mind, too! 😊👍
IMO there is a bar of 9/8, if anything. The intro riff is basically in free time. It's not intended to be felt in 4/4, it makes no musical sense like that.
Paul, who btw wrote & played it (not George), alays counts it in as 4/4, from "And-of-4". It makes perfect sense, it couldn't be more 4/4. You can train yourself to do it. Once you make the jump, you don't go back. Rolf Maibaum has a good lesson video, & gordrum has the Beatle track with 4/4 count-in.
@@jcarty123 "couldn't be more 4/4" lmao Of course Paul counts it in, the band needs to play in sync. That doesn't make it 4/4. The fact you have to "train yourself to do it" proves the whole point.
The intro/first verse of Drops of Jupiter by Train is also confusing. The vocals are on the offbeat for the most part, but you don't notice that until you hear the other verses with drums.
All Along the Watchtower, Hendrix version So much of what’s going in the intro serves to confuse the listener. The guitar chords change on the 4-and. The crash on the 4-and going into the main groove before the drum snares on every beat. Its truly a masterclass in where’s the 1.
I'm dating myself, but the 70s Disco era one-hit wonder 'Car Wash' has a tricky off-beat intro of hand claps and wah-wah guitar. The intro builds tension and anticipation, and when the song starts and everything lands on the downbeat, it just seems to make the song groove harder.
“Making Plans for Nigel” by XTC is probably the one that always trips me up the most…the drum intro starts on the 1 but doesn’t feel like it at all, then when the guitar comes in you get confused, and THEN when the vocals come in you finally figure out the rhythm.
Oh yes. But once you have realized that the piano riff starts with an 8th pause it's actually very easy. Same as the main motif in Beethoven's 5th symphony.
It's funny I've never struggled to pick up on Hold The Line. But after hearing this analysis, I can definitely hear why many do! Also I remember at one point constantly restarting You Make My Dreams to try to figure out what beat it actually started on!
Nice to see Gary Brooker's 'No More Fear of Flying' cited below ... and another excellent example of the crypto-downbeat (same composer, of course) is 'Bringing Home the Bacon' from Procol Harum's 1973 album, "Grand Hotel".
Here some others David : intro Rock and roll.(Led zeppelin)bridge to guitar solo Stairway to h(Led zeppelin) - first part Hang up your h.(herbie hancock) -intro Feeling all right (Grand funk railroad)
The most confusing intro to me is still "I want to hold your hand". I've been told it starts on the "3-and" but I never managed to count and land on the 1 with the singing.
If you just count 1-2-3 duh-duh-duh, etc .. But you need to keep in mind that the vocal intro "Oh, yeah" is on 3-4, and the "I" is on the 1 beat of the next bar. I hope that helps. 👍
@@localbod Yes, the Oh Yeah on 3 + 4 plus the I on the 1 were always clear. Just when I count in like that I never reach the 3 on the Oh. Probably my fault, but I'd just like to see a counter on the whole intro to get where I was thrown out.
My confusing intro is Muse's "Apocalypse please". Listen to it live for exemple at Wembley Stadium, cause there's an intro which is confusing. listen to it
Ok, I really appreciate what you are trying to do here, but I have comments about a few of them. In your Last example, Hold the Line, I can see as a keyboard player that you would be counting the pulses of the intro keyboard, but I have always heard it as a pickup snare beat on the 4 and counted it the way you did when you said this is how it should be counted - I can't fathom why anyone would hear it another way, but I guess that's just me. I certainly miscount a lot of things. To be fair, my written music skills are weaker than my listening skills. To me, written music is a visual approximation of how the music is actually played over time (no matter how precise it is attempted to be, it is still an approximation, because music, by definition, is something that is heard, not seen), and a lot of times things are made much more difficult than it needs to be in written form. Regarding She's A Woman, why wouldn't you count each guitar strike as a beat? That makes it much easier, although the beat is on the "and", so literally there would be a 1 and then the guitar would strike on the "and", then 2, "and" etc. I know that counting 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4 like you have may be technically correct, but to me counting 1,+,2,+,3,+,4,+ with the guitar chords on the "+"s just sounds more relaxed and less frantic, and more with the groove. It took me forever to get the timing for Drive My Car correct, and videos of Paul playing it in concert gives you the proper count in, BUT, since the Beatles weren't big on music theory, why wouldn't they go with a groove and then intentionally change it up with a 5/4 or 5/8 bar or whatever? It seems easier to read to me if only 1 bar is an unusual time signature, rather then a number of consecutive bars being written awkwardly instead of being on the beat. They intentionally changed beats and timings in countless songs beyond the intro. As a young player way (way) back in the day with my band, we'd just play with a groove, and when the drummer came in with an odd timed fill, we'd then jump to his timing for these pieces. Honestly, it was easier to play be feel and remember there was a little extra "hiccup" at a specific place in the song rather than count it out meticulously; easier to memorize how a piece was than count it out. Try playing early Rush, for example. I found it much easier to memorize how the part went rather than try to play something that complex AND count it; it's more by feel. You have to know every note and essentially you are memorizing riffs and patterns, even though they may change, but there is often a pattern in the timing changes as well. It's somewhat difficult to describe in words, but I'm hoping that you get the phenomenon that I mean here. Question for all you self taught guitar players out there, even though counting is necessary at times, do you play by patterns and feeling more often, or do you strictly count everything through? Thank you for your videos, I always enjoy your content. Cheers!
Haha, yeah that one has a really 'exotic' intro. I'm not sure what time signature it's in, but it sounds like some polyrhythmic thing with the drums in a different time signature than the guitar. When I first got to hear that album somewhere in the 90s, I was really blown away, I had never heard anything like it before. I became a YES fan soon after that! 😅
"Lonely Boy" by Andrew Gold. Not only is the intro confusing, but how the melody intertwines with the piano part during the verses also confuses me. When you hit the refrain, the beat is much more obvious.
"Invaders Must Die - The Prodigy"always got me a little confused at the beginning. I always counted it, but the second "instrument" never enters when i suspect it to.
the intro to good vibrations by the beach boys confuses me a bit, because it sounds like there is a missing beat in the third line, but the first line actually has 5 beats which makes it sound kinda strange, but in a good way. Brian Wilson is the goat
Once In a Lifetime by Talking Heads. There's ongoing confusion throughout the whole song between where "1" is on the intro and verses and where it is on the chorus. Plus it's a great song!
One confusing intro is very famous. The beginning of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. First, it's in 2/4, a time signature not very common in classical music. But the famous notes start on the "and" of 1. The piece actually starts with an eighth note rest. I have a screen shot, but I don't know how to attach it in a RUclips comment.
2/4 is pretty common in classical. It's not very common in modern music, though. I think it's best to think the first three notes as a pickup, and the long note as the downbeat. So, it's a three-note pickup and then a long note on the beat.
You Really Got Me. Until the drums come in, I hear the riff as if they’re playing a different phrasing, but they’re not. Before drums, my ear hears the first chord on beat 1. But once drums start it’s apparent that it starts on the 4-and.
I felt an inordinate sense of accomplishment after teaching myself to count along with the intro to Drive My Car. And the most confusing intro to a song I've ever heard is "The Impression That I Get" by The Mighty Mighty Bosstones. It's in straight cut time and the guitar part (which introduces the song) even begins on the downbeat. But the extreme syncopation between muted notes and open chords, first cymbal crash on the offbeat, and that weird horn melody make it extremely disorienting even after the drums come in. it's like Take It Easy on steroids.
I cant understand this video more than his counting sounded not in sync. I listen to the boss tones song and it sounded normal to me. But I wouldn’t be able to play along at the start.
For me such confusion is caused by "3s & 7s" by QOTSA. Is the downbeat on the 1sf guitar riff, on the 2nd guitar riff, or the bass riff? It's not helping that it starts with just a guitar, then there's a pause which I don't know how to count, and then a new riff with also ambiguous drums.
There's also Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is? by Chicago. First the piano solo, which has no time signature at all. Then the band starts on the upbeat of 1, has 2 three-bar phrases, then jumps into 5/8 for a few bars, tosses in one bar of 6/8, and finally back to 4/4
I scrolled down to see if this one was mentioned. I wanted to cover this in a band years ago, but the drummer couldn't follow it. (Unless he just didn't like it and pretended to be confused.😄)
Beat me to it! Another case of a song starting on the "and" of 4... It sounds like it should be similar to the start of, say, "Smoke on the Water" but it's really the 8th note *before* that. ruclips.net/video/DhbHkEmfpPE/видео.html
I was surprised not to see The Police's "Bring On the Night" listed here! That song had a huge impact on me when I first heard it. Possible inclusion for a part 2?
That song was the inspiration (according to Waddy Wachtel it was stolen and he was pissed that he played it without knowing) for Edge of Seventeen by Stevie Nicks.
RE: DRIVE MY CAR: Oh my gawd, THANK YOU!! I gave up years ago asking other musicians (and better ones than me!!) how the hell that's counted. Nobody ever got it right. THANKS, DAVID!
Honestly it's so unintuitive it feels to me like they got it wrong in the studio and just left it that way. It's the only one of these examples that I can't hear correctly even after it's explained and I go back to re-listen.
@@hairpig It's hard, man, once you've "heard" it wrong for years on end! To this day, I still hear "Girl U Want" by Devo and my ears try to come in on 4, even though my brain knows darn well it starts on 1.
@@hairpig nope, i believe it was intended to be the way it is on the recording, and this is supposedly reflected in his live performances of the song as well
Yeah, the same happened to me with all of the songs, except for Drive My Car. That's actually still confusing, even after I know how it goes. I guess the difference between the other songs and Drive My Car is that the other songs have a repeating riff that is also played over the drum beat, so it's easy to imagine the drum beat over the intro.
SRV: Pride & Joy intro. Stairway to Heaven transition (actually starts on the 1, but we hear it as the & after 4). Also, since when do cover versions avoid copyright claims?????
Hell's Bells is another example. Breakdown by Tom Petty and Burnin for You by BOC are two examples of songs that start on the 4th beat, like anacrusis but they are fully stressed.
Misty Mountain Hop is actually not THAT hard, as the very first 2nd is already on beat. Take It Easy is tricky, I always "added eight" at the end of intro instead. Drive My Car is tricky, I always wait for the drums instead. 🙂 Purely off-beat intros (like She's A Woman) are OK after a few listenings - and artis love to do this on purpose. Toto's Hold the Line is definitely confusing the first few times, but the moment you know it's in odd 3-based meter (shuffle or fast blues or triplets or whatever) it's easy. I actually count in those fast threes. Great examples, good video, thanks!
Holst Second suit in F Song of the Blacksmith and when the piano comes in for the intro for Beastars season 1 both makes it feel like the off beat is on beat to me
The intro is in odd time. 4/8 3/8 then 4/8 3/8 3/8 repeating. 17 eighth notes (could also be counted as 7/8 + 10/8 or just 17/8). But what's REALLY cool in the 'Changes' intro is when Trevor Rabin's arpeggiated verse guitar part- in 4/4- comes in stealthily during the latter measures of the odd time stuff. Polymeter of 4/4 against 17/8 basically...mind-boggling. And somehow it WORKS.
David, don't overlook the possibility that beat placement may be altered by the tin ear of a producer. I was doing a lead sheet for a full orchestra on a film score once, and found a 1/8 bar in the middle. Odd, but not impossible. But when the producer saw that, he called me and said that no such bar existed, so I played him the recording and we listened very carefully. We came to the conclusion that the extra 1/8 bar was an artifact of tape splicing by an engineer, putting together 2 separate takes. The engineer was apparently unaware what he was doing to the rhythm!
One of my favorite confusing intros is Bone Machine by The Pixies. The drums actually start on the 1, but the drumbeat itself sounds so much like the 4-beat is the 1-beat. They keep this strange beat throughout the whole song, which gives it a unique wonky feel.
It's not one of the syncopated scenarios, but a great example of using a harmonic pattern that takes an odd number of measures to resolve before "settling in".
Excellent video as always but sidenote, I had no idea you were self taught! That really inspires me and gives me faith that I can do the same 💜 when I move this summer and finally get my keyboard back, I'm gonna check out HD Piano!
Another great example of this is the intro to “Minute by Minute” by the Doobie bros…the organ intro sounds like a quick 4/4, but when the drums kick in, it’s clearly a more laid-back 12/8. Great vid!
I paused after the intro and tried to guess what songs would be mentioned. I am proud to say I guessed Take It Easy and Drive My Car. The only one that I've never felt "out of time" with when listening to is Hold the Line.
The strangest side effect of starting this channel must be that David now is forced to have an encyclopedic knowledge of Beatles and Eagles cover bands.
Annoying, isn't it? Makes me never want to purchase a Beatles or Eagles recording ever again.
Beatles were always arrogant. Chapman got the worst of them.
But Paul McCartney is such a greedy man.
Don't forget Coldplay
@@emilyrln - easy to forget Coldplay
I thought they both sold their catalogs so it's not the bands doing this
Never been confused by the Misty Mountain Hop into.
However, the drum intro to Rock & Roll by Led Zep gets me every time.
Same here and i play drums :D
Isn't that the one where the drums and the guitars are in different time signatures, but sync on the 12th beat......or something!? 🤣
Right? We know it's coming and we still fall for it
@@dctbassthat's Kashmir, I think. They love pulling one over us like that
Bonham starts Rock and Roll on the & of 3 , so the 4th hit is the 1.
8:10 if the beatles had written it without the beat, they'd just be les.
Did you know: in France they called Les Paul "The Paul."
this got me. underrated comment.
Congrats you just understood why they called themselves the Beatles.
@@auldthymerBut Les is plural, so it should be "The Pauls".
@@auldthymer So that would mean in the written form, they would write "Les Pauls" in order that the plural agrees?? :-)
Tell Me Something Good- Rufus
Lonely Boy- Andrew Gold
Beautiful Girls- Van Halen
Stairway to Heaven (middle breakdown section)- Led Zeppelin
The king of all will always be Black Dog- Led Zeppelin
No song ever again will be so accessible while being so rhythmically confusing. It’s really miraculous if you think about it. Most songs eventually “square up” in a listener’s head and make sense, whereas Black Dog constantly hides the “one” but for some reason nobody seems to care.
I came to say Lonely boy by Andrew Gold also. It's one of my favorite songs from the 1970s.
@@TimothyReeves Same here! Lonely Boy always messes with my brain till the verse kicks in.
@@tomfritzsch1928 I thought it was just me!
Lonely boy has driven me crazy my whole life!
@@Schlemiel-schlimazel I’ve known that it starts on the “and” of one forever, but I just can’t hear it right until about halfway through the first verse.
I suspect the reason why Hall and Oates start the song differently when playing live is to avoid the audience clapping out of time!
I'd bet money on it
They went to the Harry Connick Jr. School of crowd participation.
..or the live band screwing it up.. the Toto song seems like 6/8 to me
@@vjmacintyre I've arranged Hold The Line, and I hear it in 6/8 too, but 6/8 & 3/4 metrical games are my favourite kind of rhythmic gesture (like in Ravel's Chanson Romanesque or Bernstein's America). The difference between 6/8 and 12/8 largely depends on tempo, IMO, and Hold The Line isn't fast enough to need to feel a 12/8 pulse in 2 6s rather than 4 3s, at least for me.
I DON’T know much about hall & oats , but when I was a young’n I threw A-LOT of CORN in my day !
I never felt Misty Mountain hop was confusing, that guitar riff makes it clear
Yeah I thought the same thing, his counting hurt my ears haha, he did the same thing a couple years ago with Hendrix’s All Along the Watchtower
@@john-vincentsaddic6335 The counting did seem forced, or maybe I have just heard the song so many times that it seems natural to me? I KNOW when the drum is coming in.
Nah that’s just individual. I’ve always tripped up on misty mountain hop. Always comes to mind when I think of misleading beats. But some people just never felt it was misleading. Completely disagree that the guitar riff makes anything clear by itself.
Probably because a lot of people assume the first note starts on the 1, they are mislead when it’s actually on the 4and
I thought I wasn't confused because my counting lined up with the beat later but I just played the beginning of the song about 20 times trying to count and trying to observe how I count it and finally came to conclusion that I start it just as wrong as David but once the drums start, I subconsciously shift the counting by the eighth note without even noticing.
As for the All Along the Watchtower case, I remember very well that discussion how a lot of people got it correctly from the beginning. Here I'm completely on David's side, I tried like really hard to count it the right way, but even after I figured out exactly which note is the first beat and trying to count from there, I just physically couldn't. There's too much confusion.
However, I can't understand, how David can hear Hold the Line as being in 4/4. The groups of three are accented, at least on the original recording (can't really hear it on this cover version), so the 12/8 rhythm is clear... but I still start on the wrong 8th, so I do get confused, just not for the same reason.
Waiting for the next time 'Hold the Line' comes on the pub jukebox, so I can rub my chin sagely, then nod, and say: "Ah, yes...a polymetric shift is required."
😂
@@DavidBennettPiano Jeff Porcaro (on drums - of course) plays this as a shuffle, so the beat is in 4 triplets per bar, so effectively 12/8 or 12/4; but the chord change is off beat and is at the last of the triplets, hence giving unexpected feeling because it jumps a moment too early.
I have never found the intro confusing, so I don't naturally hear any kind of a "polymetric shift" happening there.
I’ve been wanting a video on this for ages. Hold the line has always been a mystery for me (and a great song!)
My band used to play this song and I recall working on the intro for most of a rehearsal. As a singer, I never really understood what was going on there, and then I learned to write music a couple of years ago and watching this channel and it’s starting to make sense to me.
That intro to "Drive My Car" always drove me nuts.
They’d never have been able to play it live, it was probably a tape splice
@@richardfranklinmorse Paul plays it live in his shows all the time.
musicians trolling on people who count the beat
Sex on fire - Kings of Leon is also notorious
I'm thinking of Pink Floyd's "Money". I _always_ hear the opening cha-ching and change in free time, then start counting when the sound effects start their regular 7/4 beat after that. But then a couple measures in, the music starts on beat _3_ of what I _thought_ I'd been counting, and counts its 7/4 from _there,_ shifting the rhythm over. ...All while the sound effects don't break their stride.
Excellent video as ever! ❤
It's crazy how it goes for 7/4 for three measures, then 2/4 for 1 measure, then back to 7/4. Thank God David Gilmours solo is in 4/4.
That's the most common song I use to explain "mixed meter" (as it used to be called) to people. Everyone knows "Money".
@mayorb3366 Soundgarden Spoonman goes back and forced between 4/4 and 7/4 . Nine Nails Nails March of the Pigs is in 7/8 and 4/4. How are you suppose to headbang to that?
@@dohanddonuts5716 LOL!
Gotta be careful. You don't want to get out of sync with a nearby headbanger!!
It could end badly!
@@dohanddonuts5716Rumor has ut Gilmour couldn't solo in 7. Meanwhile Dick Parry had no trouble 🎷.
The intro to Lonely Boy by Andrew Gold is another great confusing one.
Just What I Needed - The Cars
Rock 'n Roll - Led Zeppelin - Greg Bissonnette does a good explanation.
Just What I Needed is great for this
Ah yes, very good.
I just mentioned "Since You're Gone" which messes around with it again at the end
@@dwc1964 - Their 'Touch And Go' is another great example! 😅
I see your Rock 'n Roll - Led Zeppelin, and raise you one Black Dog - Led Zeppelin.
Funny, I've never got that with Just What I Needed. Always heard that first BAH on the "and" of the 4
EDIT - on the 4 not the "and" - misremembered how it went.
Another great example is "Sex on Fire" by Kings of Leon. The anacrusis without drums doesn't let you know where the down beat really is.
"Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except Me And My Monkey"!
I thought the same song, but I have a theory that the intro to that song was edited onto the basic track, and the funny timing during the first verse was just the band naturally falling out of time with each other before settling back into the groove. But thats just me
He already talked about this one lol
Checked if someone else was already mentioning this one and yes it was already mentioned.
Daft Punk - Veridis Quo
It's so satisfying to hear the transition.
Fr, it took me so long to be able to catch the beat in that song.
That's weird because I've always felt "Hold The Line" the "correct" way. It's fascinating how we differently perceive tempo
I've never had a problem with it either! Seems like a lot of people don't have 12/8 entrained!
Same here. Not an expert, but I think one could make the argument that it actually is in 4/4 and the beats are just subdivided into triplets…
@@ugnaught878 yes, exactly!
Me too and I think it's entirely because of the snare hit before the keys. If you're counting it in 4/4 the snare is on the 4, setting up the keys to start on 1
Same with the hall and Oates one, I had to watch it a couple of times to understand how it can be counted wrong😅
I always counted Hold the Line correctly. It felt right.
The Beach Boys’ “Caroline, No” is the one that trips me up every time, personally. The first tambourine hit make me think that’s the 1, when it’s really the 8 (or 4-and). I have gotten used to this, and now I imagine the intro is in 9/4 to make it easier for myself.
Automatic Stop by the Strokes comes to mind!
literally came to comment this, it’s so weird
I think that’s another case like “She’s a Woman”…thinking the guitar is on the 1 when it’s actually on the 2
@@scottygordon3280 Yes, absolutely!
Where the drums come in on Everybody Wants to Rule The World by Tears for Fears. I’m a drummer and it’s still an interesting counting job. That and Manny Elias playing hi-hat on the middle note of each triplet grouping!
I made a short tutorial on that intro a few years ago if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/LJBKb64GD24/видео.html
Aaaah great example
Nirvana - Swap meet
Daft Punk - Daftendirekt
The Temptations - My Girl
The worst one for me is Yours Is No Disgrace by Yes. My inner timekeeper has been hearing it wrong for 50 years and still insists that the fourth beat is the first one, even though I know perfectly well that it isn't!
Yes , did this all time especially with "Close To the Edge"....always loved their originality!!!
Right on for YES !
@@michaelanthony9068 Their music was and still is top shelf, but trying to transcribe and break it down would be living in a nightmare;-)
I've heard of this referred to as "metric ambiguity", and it's one of my favorite musical devices. A lot of the time once I hear the correct pulse, I can't hear the wrong one anymore. There's two examples that get me nearly every time though, Wolf Parade's "it's a curse" right at the intro, and spaceghostpurrp's "been fweago" which happens about halfway through the song. The spaceghostpurrp one I swear I will NEVER hear it correctly before the beat actually drops.
This guy deserves 1 million subscribers, his content is so high quality.
This year I bet
Is this how we measure things now?
he’s heading that way
@@b00ts4ndc4ts it's youtube
It's a real shame that you always miss "Money Talks" by The Alan Parsons Project, one of my favorite songs with rhythmicly consufing intro, who nearly confuses the listener 2 times in only 2 bars. BTW a very great song by a criminally underrated band.
Exactly
Limelight, Vulture Culture & Separate Lives also have intros that throw you off at first.
Spirits in the Material World still gets me every time, as even when Sting sings the first verse you think you’ve got it, and then the chorus kicks in and boom! - you’re completely off.
it's so weird, even at Stewart Copeland finds it challenging!
First song that came to mind for me as well. Even in video's where Stewart explains it I don't fully get it.
I listened to it and got it right, never hearing it before. It must be something in the brain that some people have and some don't.
It sure _is_ a tricky one, also because of the pause that follows on the '1' beat 😅
But as soon as I got the info that the intro starts on the '3' beat, I did have it sussed with my mind, too!
😊👍
Yeah that's a great example.
The Beatles intro to "I Want To Hold Your Hand" always throw's me off when the singing comes in.
Completely agree about the intro on ‘Drive my car’, I’m a drummer myself and have never been able to make sense of it - thanks for explaining!!
IMO there is a bar of 9/8, if anything. The intro riff is basically in free time. It's not intended to be felt in 4/4, it makes no musical sense like that.
Even when hearing the count-in to Drive My Car, I still hear the song start on 1.
@@gorgolyt To me it feels kinda like starting up the car -- the starter just turning freely until the engine kicks into its normal rhythm. 😎
Paul, who btw wrote & played it (not George), alays counts it in as 4/4, from "And-of-4". It makes perfect sense, it couldn't be more 4/4. You can train yourself to do it. Once you make the jump, you don't go back. Rolf Maibaum has a good lesson video, & gordrum has the Beatle track with 4/4 count-in.
@@jcarty123 "couldn't be more 4/4" lmao
Of course Paul counts it in, the band needs to play in sync. That doesn't make it 4/4. The fact you have to "train yourself to do it" proves the whole point.
The intro/first verse of Drops of Jupiter by Train is also confusing. The vocals are on the offbeat for the most part, but you don't notice that until you hear the other verses with drums.
All Along the Watchtower, Hendrix version
So much of what’s going in the intro serves to confuse the listener. The guitar chords change on the 4-and. The crash on the 4-and going into the main groove before the drum snares on every beat. Its truly a masterclass in where’s the 1.
Absolutely on that song, it sounds like Hendrix just comes in at a random time...
Absolutely! I've spent a lot of time on that song intro, pretty sure I never figured it out!
I'm dating myself, but the 70s Disco era one-hit wonder 'Car Wash' has a tricky off-beat intro of hand claps and wah-wah guitar. The intro builds tension and anticipation, and when the song starts and everything lands on the downbeat, it just seems to make the song groove harder.
whoa whoa whoa, where's Rock and Roll by Led Zeppelin?
Great video though!
I was about to make the same comment. It messes you up. 😂
probably in the earlier video he mentioned at the end - gonna go find out now ...
“Making Plans for Nigel” by XTC is probably the one that always trips me up the most…the drum intro starts on the 1 but doesn’t feel like it at all, then when the guitar comes in you get confused, and THEN when the vocals come in you finally figure out the rhythm.
You might be getting confused because it doesn't start on the one, it starts on the "and," an eighth note before the one.
@@mrjah603 ahh, that’s it! Thank you for pointing this out.
Radiohead: Videotape
Radiohead: Let Down
The Stills: Panic - that bass note not being on the downbeat always fucks with my head.
Radiohead: Identikit
let down is so underrated
I’d actually say Pyramid Song, I had to look up a video just to know the time signature, and it’s still hard after you know everything
How is Let Down confusing?
@@DDGenes The guitar riff is in 5/8
One song not mentioned here is "Honky Tonk Women" by The Rolling Stones. That opening cowbell throws me every time.
Yesss!
The start of the middle part of Supertramp's "Crime of the Century", constantly fools me.
Oh yes. But once you have realized that the piano riff starts with an 8th pause it's actually very easy.
Same as the main motif in Beethoven's 5th symphony.
The quiet middle part in 'School' had done the same to _me_ when I'd heard it the first few times 😅
It's funny I've never struggled to pick up on Hold The Line. But after hearing this analysis, I can definitely hear why many do! Also I remember at one point constantly restarting You Make My Dreams to try to figure out what beat it actually started on!
The song I thought of immediately was Rock and Roll by Led Zep.
Edit: You included that in your first video.
VERIDIS QUO by DAFT PUNK is one of my favourites with this odd beginings
Good example
Beetlebum by Blur. It's the perfect example of this kind of thing. And they do it repeatedly, so it's intentional.
Nice to see Gary Brooker's 'No More Fear of Flying' cited below ... and another excellent example of the crypto-downbeat (same composer, of course) is 'Bringing Home the Bacon' from Procol Harum's 1973 album, "Grand Hotel".
Some time ago, I trained myself to hear most of these correctly. Hearing them counted incorrectly was torture :)
Here some others David : intro Rock and roll.(Led zeppelin)bridge to guitar solo Stairway to h(Led zeppelin) - first part Hang up your h.(herbie hancock) -intro Feeling all right (Grand funk railroad)
The most confusing intro to me is still "I want to hold your hand". I've been told it starts on the "3-and" but I never managed to count and land on the 1 with the singing.
If you just count 1-2-3 duh-duh-duh, etc ..
But you need to keep in mind that the vocal intro "Oh, yeah" is on 3-4, and the "I" is on the 1 beat of the next bar.
I hope that helps.
👍
@@localbod Yes, the Oh Yeah on 3 + 4 plus the I on the 1 were always clear. Just when I count in like that I never reach the 3 on the Oh.
Probably my fault, but I'd just like to see a counter on the whole intro to get where I was thrown out.
There's this one song called Forever by Alekseev. The chord progression is very enjoyable but I can't find it anywhere else. Am-Em-Dm-E. i-v-iv-V
Start me up - Rolling Stones. Gets me every time
Me too. But that is due to Charlie Watts' elegant drumming.
@@ric8248 - I may be wrong, but I suspect Charlie himself was a bit confused during the intro! 😅
On "Honky Tonk Women" Charlie's playing with the cowbell is really confused 😂
Came here to say this!
@@whiskeywolfgangIt's Jimmy Miller who's playing the cowbell part
My confusing intro is Muse's "Apocalypse please". Listen to it live for exemple at Wembley Stadium, cause there's an intro which is confusing. listen to it
Hold the Line is really easy to count if you organize the piano stabs as triplets (or sextuplets), each one being a beat of your regular 4/4
Actually, that's what he does when counting 'correctly'. He counts to 4, not to 12.
Exactly
Ok, I really appreciate what you are trying to do here, but I have comments about a few of them. In your Last example, Hold the Line, I can see as a keyboard player that you would be counting the pulses of the intro keyboard, but I have always heard it as a pickup snare beat on the 4 and counted it the way you did when you said this is how it should be counted - I can't fathom why anyone would hear it another way, but I guess that's just me. I certainly miscount a lot of things.
To be fair, my written music skills are weaker than my listening skills. To me, written music is a visual approximation of how the music is actually played over time (no matter how precise it is attempted to be, it is still an approximation, because music, by definition, is something that is heard, not seen), and a lot of times things are made much more difficult than it needs to be in written form. Regarding She's A Woman, why wouldn't you count each guitar strike as a beat? That makes it much easier, although the beat is on the "and", so literally there would be a 1 and then the guitar would strike on the "and", then 2, "and" etc. I know that counting 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4 like you have may be technically correct, but to me counting 1,+,2,+,3,+,4,+ with the guitar chords on the "+"s just sounds more relaxed and less frantic, and more with the groove.
It took me forever to get the timing for Drive My Car correct, and videos of Paul playing it in concert gives you the proper count in, BUT, since the Beatles weren't big on music theory, why wouldn't they go with a groove and then intentionally change it up with a 5/4 or 5/8 bar or whatever? It seems easier to read to me if only 1 bar is an unusual time signature, rather then a number of consecutive bars being written awkwardly instead of being on the beat. They intentionally changed beats and timings in countless songs beyond the intro.
As a young player way (way) back in the day with my band, we'd just play with a groove, and when the drummer came in with an odd timed fill, we'd then jump to his timing for these pieces. Honestly, it was easier to play be feel and remember there was a little extra "hiccup" at a specific place in the song rather than count it out meticulously; easier to memorize how a piece was than count it out. Try playing early Rush, for example. I found it much easier to memorize how the part went rather than try to play something that complex AND count it; it's more by feel. You have to know every note and essentially you are memorizing riffs and patterns, even though they may change, but there is often a pattern in the timing changes as well. It's somewhat difficult to describe in words, but I'm hoping that you get the phenomenon that I mean here.
Question for all you self taught guitar players out there, even though counting is necessary at times, do you play by patterns and feeling more often, or do you strictly count everything through?
Thank you for your videos, I always enjoy your content. Cheers!
The song Ive always thought to be just crazy is "Changes" by Yes..... Love to see you break that one down brother!
Haha, yeah that one has a really 'exotic' intro. I'm not sure what time signature it's in, but it sounds like some polyrhythmic thing with the drums in a different time signature than the guitar. When I first got to hear that album somewhere in the 90s, I was really blown away, I had never heard anything like it before. I became a YES fan soon after that! 😅
"Lonely Boy" by Andrew Gold. Not only is the intro confusing, but how the melody intertwines with the piano part during the verses also confuses me. When you hit the refrain, the beat is much more obvious.
The Cars: Let the Good Times Roll...there's another confusing intro
Just what I needed throws me off too.
"Invaders Must Die - The Prodigy"always got me a little confused at the beginning. I always counted it, but the second "instrument" never enters when i suspect it to.
the intro to good vibrations by the beach boys confuses me a bit, because it sounds like there is a missing beat in the third line, but the first line actually has 5 beats which makes it sound kinda strange, but in a good way. Brian Wilson is the goat
Once In a Lifetime by Talking Heads. There's ongoing confusion throughout the whole song between where "1" is on the intro and verses and where it is on the chorus. Plus it's a great song!
One confusing intro is very famous. The beginning of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. First, it's in 2/4, a time signature not very common in classical music. But the famous notes start on the "and" of 1. The piece actually starts with an eighth note rest. I have a screen shot, but I don't know how to attach it in a RUclips comment.
2/4 is pretty common in classical. It's not very common in modern music, though.
I think it's best to think the first three notes as a pickup, and the long note as the downbeat. So, it's a three-note pickup and then a long note on the beat.
You Really Got Me. Until the drums come in, I hear the riff as if they’re playing a different phrasing, but they’re not. Before drums, my ear hears the first chord on beat 1. But once drums start it’s apparent that it starts on the 4-and.
I felt an inordinate sense of accomplishment after teaching myself to count along with the intro to Drive My Car. And the most confusing intro to a song I've ever heard is "The Impression That I Get" by The Mighty Mighty Bosstones. It's in straight cut time and the guitar part (which introduces the song) even begins on the downbeat. But the extreme syncopation between muted notes and open chords, first cymbal crash on the offbeat, and that weird horn melody make it extremely disorienting even after the drums come in. it's like Take It Easy on steroids.
I cant understand this video more than his counting sounded not in sync. I listen to the boss tones song and it sounded normal to me. But I wouldn’t be able to play along at the start.
For me such confusion is caused by "3s & 7s" by QOTSA. Is the downbeat on the 1sf guitar riff, on the 2nd guitar riff, or the bass riff? It's not helping that it starts with just a guitar, then there's a pause which I don't know how to count, and then a new riff with also ambiguous drums.
This happens in a bunch of modern songs too - I had a list at one point, but the one I remember most is : Citizen Cope - Son's Gonna Rise
It's adorable how excited he sounds when he's counting the beats, like almost breaking character
All these examples are old recordings. Is a lot modern music too "programmed" to have such rhythmical quirks?
There's also Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is? by Chicago. First the piano solo, which has no time signature at all. Then the band starts on the upbeat of 1, has 2 three-bar phrases, then jumps into 5/8 for a few bars, tosses in one bar of 6/8, and finally back to 4/4
Ya gotta love Chicago for that and their ability to cross over genres.
Cecelia - Simon and Garfunkel.
Not only does the bit of guitar at the start give you the wrong time it gives you the wrong key.
Another one is "Girl U Want" by Devo. I'm convinced these bands are playing with our heads on purpose.
I scrolled down to see if this one was mentioned. I wanted to cover this in a band years ago, but the drummer couldn't follow it. (Unless he just didn't like it and pretended to be confused.😄)
Haha I would think the only hard part for a drummer would be figuring out where to start playing. It should be easy from that point on. @@hammerpocket
@@hammerpocket You had a crap drummer. The riff starts on 1! 🙂
Great video. Glory Days by Bruce Springsteen popped up on the radio, and I naturally went back into counting the first note as the downbeat 😂
This is the top one for me. Intro to this song confuses me every time without fail.
Another Example is Stolen Dance by Milky Chance. The pulse at the start is offbeat, but we dont know until the other instruments come in.
The fact they made the song name rhyme with their band name
Hold The Line didn't really confuse me, always heard it as 4 triplets, but with a chord change on last note of the 3rd triplet 😅
"I'm Free" by The Who always throws me off. I have to really fight to count it right.
Same.
Great example! 😀👍
Beat me to it! Another case of a song starting on the "and" of 4... It sounds like it should be similar to the start of, say, "Smoke on the Water" but it's really the 8th note *before* that.
ruclips.net/video/DhbHkEmfpPE/видео.html
I haven't checked to see if you mention it but "Violence" by Blink 182 drives me nuts
Murder by Numbers from The Police has one of the hardest beat to figure out, this time starting with just the drums. Hats off to Stewart Copeland!
Copeland is a drum genius
Or even hi-hats off to him. 😉
He is truly one of the greats and so idiosyncratic and identifiable.
Run Away by Kanye West. Intentionally tricking you with that piano on the off beat...
I was surprised not to see The Police's "Bring On the Night" listed here! That song had a huge impact on me when I first heard it. Possible inclusion for a part 2?
Such a brilliant song! :)
That song was the inspiration (according to Waddy Wachtel it was stolen and he was pissed that he played it without knowing) for Edge of Seventeen by Stevie Nicks.
Frankie Laine's Rawhide does it to me. Going from the end of the verse to the chorus. Every time.
I always liked Supergrass's "Lenny" & "Time" on their "I should coco" album
Great examples, and great band, too! 😀👍
Yes to "Lenny"! I was gonna name that song as well. They're all playing on the offbeat, but it sounds like the beat.
Any day is a good day to give praise to Supergrass
The Cars - Just what i needed intro always throws me off!
Then don't listen to "Touch And Go"! (TBF that song uses polymeters)
RE: DRIVE MY CAR: Oh my gawd, THANK YOU!! I gave up years ago asking other musicians (and better ones than me!!) how the hell that's counted. Nobody ever got it right. THANKS, DAVID!
Honestly it's so unintuitive it feels to me like they got it wrong in the studio and just left it that way. It's the only one of these examples that I can't hear correctly even after it's explained and I go back to re-listen.
@@hairpig It's hard, man, once you've "heard" it wrong for years on end! To this day, I still hear "Girl U Want" by Devo and my ears try to come in on 4, even though my brain knows darn well it starts on 1.
@@hairpig nope, i believe it was intended to be the way it is on the recording, and this is supposedly reflected in his live performances of the song as well
Great video as always, David! How about ‘Lonely Boy’ by Andrew Gold
Interestingly enough, after I found out the correct beat for Misty Mountain Hop, my brain was able to naturally latch onto that beat.
Yeah, the same happened to me with all of the songs, except for Drive My Car. That's actually still confusing, even after I know how it goes. I guess the difference between the other songs and Drive My Car is that the other songs have a repeating riff that is also played over the drum beat, so it's easy to imagine the drum beat over the intro.
Thankyou. I've been struggling playing the intro of "take it easy" on guitar, and FINALLY I know why!!!
Number City by Coheed and Cambria - I love how the drums coming in completely changes the feel of the bass intro riff
SRV: Pride & Joy intro.
Stairway to Heaven transition (actually starts on the 1, but we hear it as the & after 4).
Also, since when do cover versions avoid copyright claims?????
Hell's Bells is another example. Breakdown by Tom Petty and Burnin for You by BOC are two examples of songs that start on the 4th beat, like anacrusis but they are fully stressed.
Sex on Fire was the first song I played where this happened. Took me a long while to get that first bass slide in the right place!
Misty Mountain Hop is actually not THAT hard, as the very first 2nd is already on beat. Take It Easy is tricky, I always "added eight" at the end of intro instead. Drive My Car is tricky, I always wait for the drums instead. 🙂 Purely off-beat intros (like She's A Woman) are OK after a few listenings - and artis love to do this on purpose. Toto's Hold the Line is definitely confusing the first few times, but the moment you know it's in odd 3-based meter (shuffle or fast blues or triplets or whatever) it's easy. I actually count in those fast threes. Great examples, good video, thanks!
I would like it more if you didn't count on the first time listening to the song, so I can hear for myself how I would count it.
We're the same kind of weird, I've spent so much time listening to the start of most of these songs trying to feel the time properly.
Holst Second suit in F Song of the Blacksmith and when the piano comes in for the intro for Beastars season 1 both makes it feel like the off beat is on beat to me
Confusing intro: Changes - Yes. Love your channel thanks 👌
The intro is in odd time. 4/8 3/8 then 4/8 3/8 3/8 repeating. 17 eighth notes (could also be counted as 7/8 + 10/8 or just 17/8). But what's REALLY cool in the 'Changes' intro is when Trevor Rabin's arpeggiated verse guitar part- in 4/4- comes in stealthily during the latter measures of the odd time stuff. Polymeter of 4/4 against 17/8 basically...mind-boggling. And somehow it WORKS.
David, don't overlook the possibility that beat placement may be altered by the tin ear of a producer. I was doing a lead sheet for a full orchestra on a film score once, and found a 1/8 bar in the middle. Odd, but not impossible. But when the producer saw that, he called me and said that no such bar existed, so I played him the recording and we listened very carefully. We came to the conclusion that the extra 1/8 bar was an artifact of tape splicing by an engineer, putting together 2 separate takes. The engineer was apparently unaware what he was doing to the rhythm!
One of my favorite confusing intros is Bone Machine by The Pixies. The drums actually start on the 1, but the drumbeat itself sounds so much like the 4-beat is the 1-beat. They keep this strange beat throughout the whole song, which gives it a unique wonky feel.
Violence by Blink-182.....still cant understand it
Minute by Minute is a CRAZY ONEEE
Yep Doobie Bros. It always gets me even when I know it.
It's not one of the syncopated scenarios, but a great example of using a harmonic pattern that takes an odd number of measures to resolve before "settling in".
Michael Mcdonald explains this one in his recent interview on Rick Beato's channel.
Murder by Numbers by the band The Police has also the kind of intro I have difficulties counting along to.
Excellent video as always but sidenote, I had no idea you were self taught! That really inspires me and gives me faith that I can do the same 💜 when I move this summer and finally get my keyboard back, I'm gonna check out HD Piano!
Thank you! That’s great to hear 😊😊😊
Simon & Garfunkel - Baby Driver .....Comes in on the 2....🤯
Another great example of this is the intro to “Minute by Minute” by the Doobie bros…the organ intro sounds like a quick 4/4, but when the drums kick in, it’s clearly a more laid-back 12/8. Great vid!
Michael McDonald explains it on Rick Beato's channel.
*1517 by The Whitest Boy Alive* also has a deliberately confusing intro. Great song 👍
I paused after the intro and tried to guess what songs would be mentioned. I am proud to say I guessed Take It Easy and Drive My Car.
The only one that I've never felt "out of time" with when listening to is Hold the Line.
Agree - There has never been one moment of my life where I didn't hear it as triplets.
What about “Hump de Bump” by the Red hot chilli peppers