AMD should make it so that only non-x 65w cpus have the cooler and upgrade the cooler to the wraith spire (prism might be a little expensive). This will also bring the cost down since you only need one mold for the cpu cooler to be manufactured and brings the cost down even more. Every other cpu should just come with no cooler at all and just slash 20$ off the cpu price instead.
If you think for one second that any corporation lowers their price when they give you less, you have no idea how businesses operate. Go ask for "no tomato" on your next burger and see how much they decrease the price for you 😂
From a waste perspective I totally agree with the idea of ditching the factory coolers. If they remove them, you won't see any reasonable ammount of cost savings from a cunsumer perspective. Having said that I have multiple times used the factory coolers on low utiliztion systems and even if its a $3 cost cooler it was nice to not have to purchase a cooler, even if I can get a really cheep one for $30 CDN, they may not be keeping the lowest temeratures and they will spool up, but if you set a fan curve to max at 75C the only time they get noisy is if you drive the CPU to allot of usage. (EG: CPU Video Transcoding) I used a spire on a 5700G that was used primary as a VM Host of multiple Development VM machines and a Development IIS/SQL Server. For this usage the cooler worked fine.
I totally agree that for some cases and users, the factory cooler will be fine. But I guess the question is: should a cooler be included by default if only 5-10% of retail purchasers will end up actually using it? Between people who already own a better aftermarket cooler that they can reuse, people who want to buy a better aftermarket cooler, and people who choose water cooling, I'd be surprised if the utilization rate on stock coolers is any higher than that. Having said that, I don't have the hard numbers and that's just an estimate on my part based on my own experiences and observations.
Ty, nice vid. Totally agree with you. A budget tower cooler is cheap nowadays and is superior to all the boxed coolers. The prism is a nice option though on a trash motherboard where you need all the VRM cooling you can get. Downdraught coolers in my country is rather pricey. And the prism is still a sexy looking cooler once setup: if you buy secondhand, just make sure you get the USB cable with it.
When they stop including the box cooler, the price doesn't really drop. and those heatsinks are useful. For example, the AMD ones work really well on those 20-30watt LED modules, which often provides enough surface area to passively cool those LEDs. With a good LED driver board that does constant current, they can often offer really good output for high speed video (1000+ FPS). I will try to show an example in a reply (not sure if youtube will hide it or not since it will be am imgur link to a picture.
Cool alternative-use suggestion. I'm sort of working on the assumption that competitive pricing pressure would be sufficient to pass the savings from the deleted coolers on to consumers. That may or may not be realistic in the real world, depending on your point of view.
Bad habits die hard. It's just nickel pinching to save pennies by both AMD and Intel Like you said they could reflect a slight price decrease in CPU prices with non inclusion of the aluminum junk. Yet you must also remember that both companies ship globally and not all people have access to well stocked computer part shops like in the West, China or other economically advantaged lands thus that included cooler is a lifesaver yet including only the Wraith or Spire makes more sense for better temperature regulation.
I actually have that info! Of the CPUs that had coolers included, the Stealth, Spire and Prism were all used on 65-watt CPUs. 95-watt CPUs all came with the Spire, and 105-watt CPU's had the Prism. Anything over 105 watts has not had a cooler included.
After market or box coolers still need some air flow to cool a CPU I've built/upgraded a few systems over the last 20+ years (in the triple figures is my guess). Retail box (with and with out box coolers) and OEM (tray). IMO, box coolers have a place, in budget builds/low power systems, in some cases there no difference in cost (OEM/Retail) depending on the retailer/supplier. Its good to have the option, (if required) Where the user case isn't often working the CPU (and or GPU expansion card) hard to turn up the heat/voltage, in a case Currently daily, PCs in my house hold, are 3590x (105W TDP) with Noctua NH-D15 and R7-2700 (65W TDP) with box cooler. I opt for air coolers in my house hold builds. As I'm not a fan (no pun intended) of pump or fluid fails, that can happen with water cooling/AIO.
Lol. Good pun. I'm an all-air guy as well, for the same reason. That said, even my very lightly-used home theatre PC with a 4600G has a low-profile Thermalright AXP90-X47 cooler simply to keep the noise to a minimum.
If the stock cooler does not allow for maximum performance (ie. no thermal throttling), then they should not be packaged with the CPU otherwise it's just waste. The Wraith Prism is decent. The Wraith Spire and Stealth are not.
Because 99.999% of PC users and even enthusiasts aren't using CPUs at maximum performance all the time. I've yet to encounter a stock cooler that doesn't allow the bundled CPU to run at the rated spec and allow decent boosting. The main complaint from the video is that stock coolers are noisy. So what, that's easily mitigated. If you needed maximum performance, you wouldn't be buying a CPU that bundled a stock cooler to begin with.
i think its safe to assume that they spread the cost of production of the stock coolers across all of their products. so if they do drop it they could drop the price on the high end processors too.
@tektoc i don't think it would be a significant savings but would be something nice to see. The cost a cpu isnt as high as a gpu but they've gone up too. Any price drop might make a higher end product available to someone on a budget.
I still have the stock cooler that came with my FX-8350 and it looks 10x better and more capable than what they box up and send with the new processors. Basically AMD and Intel just cheaped out and started cutting costs.
The coolers that came with Athlon 64\Opteron and Phenom Era were often better then the ones now. They had heatpipes and full copper plates on the bottom. Intel stock coolers have always sucked, they've never had a decent one not even once. I don't agree that they should not bundle them tho. There fine for 4\6\8 core cpu's and less that aren't regularly sucking more then 90-125 watts as long as they have a copper plate\core. What ticks me off tho is the design, they could go with a Full PIN design in the realm of the OLD alpha pal and swiftech coolers before heatpipes were the norm. Such a design is very effective, and much better at cooling off the VRMS. It would not cost them much more either.
Given that the 2024 AMD CPUs are basically all Stealth coolers or no cooler, I think it's totally pointless to continue packaging them. The Stealth is thin, has no copper, and is going to make very few people (if any) happy. Time to take them out back behind the barn, so to speak. But you're right, if the coolers were better, had some copper and were better designed, there would be more of a case for keeping them. I had to lookup the Alpha Pal. That is an interesting cooler! I wonder how a modern version would stack up against the current crop of heatpipe coolers?
Problem is how AMD's interpretation of their TDP is. There is no way 7900 and 7600 have the same amount of "heat generated" and yet AMD labeled these two "65W" TDP.
Lol. Yes there's two things on the Intel side that have been best left undiscussed over the years: their included coolers and the quality of their integrated graphics. 😆
Yeah, the maximum allowable temps seem to keep rising. My 6750XT GPU has a maximum hot spot temp of 105 degrees. That seems really high to me. But then, I'm no engineer.
they start to sell tray cpus now a lot and thats only the cpu no cooler. and its usaly also cheaper so there is chose for bout those who need the cooler and those who dont.
Yes, yes, yes, a gorillion times yes. Write it down and file it with the US patent agency, the whole concept is that absurd. I get it, when I first started out back in 2015, the box cooler was nice to have. A bit of reassurance if my AIO ever decided to crap out on me for the five years I planned on owning it, hint, it didn't. That aside, I never understood why from a consumer standpoint, these coolers were included. Now I could see a use for businesses but that was it. Even back then when I was rocking my 67k, box coolers were widely mocked in the builder community for all the reasons you spelled out. I support all the reasons you mentioned for their removal. That is happening at the high end so its a start, now it just needs to happen for all processers, and just sell the coolers separately.
AMD should make it so that only non-x 65w cpus have the cooler and upgrade the cooler to the wraith spire (prism might be a little expensive). This will also bring the cost down since you only need one mold for the cpu cooler to be manufactured and brings the cost down even more. Every other cpu should just come with no cooler at all and just slash 20$ off the cpu price instead.
You know what? I think this is a FANTASTIC idea. Kind of a "meet you in the middle" approach.
My AIO stopped working and I had to finish a class assignment I was happy to have the AMD cooler as back up.
Makes sense to me. I always buy my own cooler anyway.
If you think for one second that any corporation lowers their price when they give you less, you have no idea how businesses operate. Go ask for "no tomato" on your next burger and see how much they decrease the price for you 😂
@@Sharpester And yet, we see frequent discounting of CPUs below MSRP which would seem to suggest pricing pressures are real....
From a waste perspective I totally agree with the idea of ditching the factory coolers.
If they remove them, you won't see any reasonable ammount of cost savings from a cunsumer perspective.
Having said that I have multiple times used the factory coolers on low utiliztion systems and even if its a $3 cost cooler it was nice to not have to purchase a cooler, even if I can get a really cheep one for $30 CDN, they may not be keeping the lowest temeratures and they will spool up, but if you set a fan curve to max at 75C the only time they get noisy is if you drive the CPU to allot of usage. (EG: CPU Video Transcoding)
I used a spire on a 5700G that was used primary as a VM Host of multiple Development VM machines and a Development IIS/SQL Server.
For this usage the cooler worked fine.
I totally agree that for some cases and users, the factory cooler will be fine. But I guess the question is: should a cooler be included by default if only 5-10% of retail purchasers will end up actually using it? Between people who already own a better aftermarket cooler that they can reuse, people who want to buy a better aftermarket cooler, and people who choose water cooling, I'd be surprised if the utilization rate on stock coolers is any higher than that.
Having said that, I don't have the hard numbers and that's just an estimate on my part based on my own experiences and observations.
Ty, nice vid. Totally agree with you. A budget tower cooler is cheap nowadays and is superior to all the boxed coolers. The prism is a nice option though on a trash motherboard where you need all the VRM cooling you can get. Downdraught coolers in my country is rather pricey. And the prism is still a sexy looking cooler once setup: if you buy secondhand, just make sure you get the USB cable with it.
When they stop including the box cooler, the price doesn't really drop. and those heatsinks are useful. For example, the AMD ones work really well on those 20-30watt LED modules, which often provides enough surface area to passively cool those LEDs. With a good LED driver board that does constant current, they can often offer really good output for high speed video (1000+ FPS).
I will try to show an example in a reply (not sure if youtube will hide it or not since it will be am imgur link to a picture.
Cool alternative-use suggestion. I'm sort of working on the assumption that competitive pricing pressure would be sufficient to pass the savings from the deleted coolers on to consumers. That may or may not be realistic in the real world, depending on your point of view.
Bad habits die hard.
It's just nickel pinching to save pennies by both AMD and Intel
Like you said they could reflect a slight price decrease in CPU prices with non inclusion of the aluminum junk.
Yet you must also remember that both companies ship globally and not all people have access to well stocked computer part shops like in the West, China or other economically advantaged lands thus that included cooler is a lifesaver yet including only the Wraith or Spire makes more sense for better temperature regulation.
Thanks for the video, would love to see TDP next to each of those CPUs to see how that correlates to the included coolers.
I actually have that info! Of the CPUs that had coolers included, the Stealth, Spire and Prism were all used on 65-watt CPUs. 95-watt CPUs all came with the Spire, and 105-watt CPU's had the Prism. Anything over 105 watts has not had a cooler included.
After market or box coolers still need some air flow to cool a CPU
I've built/upgraded a few systems over the last 20+ years (in the triple figures is my guess). Retail box (with and with out box coolers) and OEM (tray). IMO, box coolers have a place, in budget builds/low power systems, in some cases there no difference in cost (OEM/Retail) depending on the retailer/supplier. Its good to have the option, (if required) Where the user case isn't often working the CPU (and or GPU expansion card) hard to turn up the heat/voltage, in a case
Currently daily, PCs in my house hold, are 3590x (105W TDP) with Noctua NH-D15 and R7-2700 (65W TDP) with box cooler.
I opt for air coolers in my house hold builds. As I'm not a fan (no pun intended) of pump or fluid fails, that can happen with water cooling/AIO.
Lol. Good pun. I'm an all-air guy as well, for the same reason. That said, even my very lightly-used home theatre PC with a 4600G has a low-profile Thermalright AXP90-X47 cooler simply to keep the noise to a minimum.
Make sense for sure....
If the stock cooler does not allow for maximum performance (ie. no thermal throttling), then they should not be packaged with the CPU otherwise it's just waste. The Wraith Prism is decent. The Wraith Spire and Stealth are not.
I'm not big on the whole idea of an included cooler generally, but certainly, if you are going to do it, package a cooler that works.
Because 99.999% of PC users and even enthusiasts aren't using CPUs at maximum performance all the time.
I've yet to encounter a stock cooler that doesn't allow the bundled CPU to run at the rated spec and allow decent boosting.
The main complaint from the video is that stock coolers are noisy. So what, that's easily mitigated.
If you needed maximum performance, you wouldn't be buying a CPU that bundled a stock cooler to begin with.
its a backup cooler never use it for daily tasks
I'd be willing to bet you are in a solid majority. I think very few box coolers are installed in PCs and used for any significant amount of time.
i think its safe to assume that they spread the cost of production of the stock coolers across all of their products. so if they do drop it they could drop the price on the high end processors too.
@@bradybern6458 Very possibly, yeah. That hadn't occurred to me.
@tektoc i don't think it would be a significant savings but would be something nice to see. The cost a cpu isnt as high as a gpu but they've gone up too. Any price drop might make a higher end product available to someone on a budget.
I still have the stock cooler that came with my FX-8350 and it looks 10x better and more capable than what they box up and send with the new processors. Basically AMD and Intel just cheaped out and started cutting costs.
It's absolutely all about cost. I'm in the camp that says: "no cooler is better than a crappy cooler". 😄
The coolers that came with Athlon 64\Opteron and Phenom Era were often better then the ones now. They had heatpipes and full copper plates on the bottom. Intel stock coolers have always sucked, they've never had a decent one not even once. I don't agree that they should not bundle them tho. There fine for 4\6\8 core cpu's and less that aren't regularly sucking more then 90-125 watts as long as they have a copper plate\core. What ticks me off tho is the design, they could go with a Full PIN design in the realm of the OLD alpha pal and swiftech coolers before heatpipes were the norm. Such a design is very effective, and much better at cooling off the VRMS. It would not cost them much more either.
Given that the 2024 AMD CPUs are basically all Stealth coolers or no cooler, I think it's totally pointless to continue packaging them. The Stealth is thin, has no copper, and is going to make very few people (if any) happy. Time to take them out back behind the barn, so to speak.
But you're right, if the coolers were better, had some copper and were better designed, there would be more of a case for keeping them.
I had to lookup the Alpha Pal. That is an interesting cooler! I wonder how a modern version would stack up against the current crop of heatpipe coolers?
Thsnks for the video.
Problem is how AMD's interpretation of their TDP is.
There is no way 7900 and 7600 have the same amount of "heat generated" and yet AMD labeled these two "65W" TDP.
Perhaps. What would be the motivation to fudge the number, tho? Just sloppiness?
if you're giving out a FREE cpu cooler atleast give us one with RGB like the wraith prism or the Intel Laminar RH1
I definitely support this. Wish this video had more views!
They are always so loud
u r totally right about the AMD cooler situation, lets just ignore the history and present of intel cooler hahahahah, they were rubbish
Lol. Yes there's two things on the Intel side that have been best left undiscussed over the years: their included coolers and the quality of their integrated graphics. 😆
CPUs are running alot hotter with the AM5 cooler now w the 9000 series. Wish the PC industry would stop the 99C is ok, its now.
Yeah, the maximum allowable temps seem to keep rising. My 6750XT GPU has a maximum hot spot temp of 105 degrees. That seems really high to me. But then, I'm no engineer.
they start to sell tray cpus now a lot and thats only the cpu no cooler. and its usaly also cheaper so there is chose for bout those who need the cooler and those who dont.
I totally agree with you! Save on the manufacturing and marketing. Let people decide a better cooling choice!
We need to start a movement. BREAK OUT THE PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES!!!✊
If 20 bucks for a fin stack breaks your build budget just wait until you get your allowance ffs
🤣🤣🤣
Yes, yes, yes, a gorillion times yes. Write it down and file it with the US patent agency, the whole concept is that absurd.
I get it, when I first started out back in 2015, the box cooler was nice to have. A bit of reassurance if my AIO ever decided to crap out on me for the five years I planned on owning it, hint, it didn't. That aside, I never understood why from a consumer standpoint, these coolers were included. Now I could see a use for businesses but that was it.
Even back then when I was rocking my 67k, box coolers were widely mocked in the builder community for all the reasons you spelled out. I support all the reasons you mentioned for their removal. That is happening at the high end so its a start, now it just needs to happen for all processers, and just sell the coolers separately.
I'm with you! I think you're right that we will see fewer and fewer box coolers going forward. Maybe keep them for the budget CPUs only?