Here's a follow up video about worst case runbacks which covers cases like not respawning at the Gwyndolin bonfire: ruclips.net/video/j4VnT31TkfI/видео.htmlsi=rjPEd0eEsaZN6jIn
Maybe no, actually the bosses in DS Trilogy are very very easy comparing to elden ring and most of the hard bosses have a bonfire next to him, fume knight, gael, nameless king etc...
The runback for Artorias is mind-numbing, especially since it took me 12-15 times to best him. I really dislike having to ride an elevator each time, especially when you forget to send it back before your next run. Man, it was painful. In all honesty, I haven't suffered the run through the snow field to get to Lud and Zallen. I've seen and heard enough horror stories of that and decided I simply never want to do it myself.
Was disinformation about Dark Souls 2 ever misinformation? Did its detractors ever have good intentions? When and how did it become a part of the zeitgeist to trash it? DS2 is such a unique case in gaming. I can’t name another game whose detractors propagandized their dislike of it. Hell yeah Domo, this is fantastic, detailed work. You’re the champion DS2 has needed for the last decade.
You could write an entire case study on why certain games (and media in general) become far more 'infamous' than the sum of their parts actually justify. An example that comes to mind is Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts. It made a bad first impression, mocking previous games and changing up its genre in a way that fans didn't ask for. It was universally maligned for around a decade, even generally considered be the reason the franchise died -- long story short, fans are starting to come around and consider it a good game, even misunderstood and underrated. I'm also seeing more and more people saying GTA IV is actually a better game than GTA V; something I've felt for ten years, but honestly never expected. Hindsight is a strange and powerful thing.
It happens every time a major franchise has many entries with equal importance. Fallout Yakuza Resident Evil There’s always one game that gets picked as the “bad” one even if it’s the best.
@larrywalker1371 ds1 can't be improved upon? new londo, the whole ass izalith and demon area, lame as gwyn boss, no connectivity beyond undead burg, teleportation between only specific bonfires, a veeeerrryy limit supplies if endgame upgrade materials. and even the remaster especially on pc was an insult.
I never found the bonfire in lost izalith so I ran to the bed of chaos from the bonfire with Solare. it was very fun and took 5 mins to get to the boss, and 5 sec to get pushed into a hole in the ground.
I know this is a late reply, but if you didn't know, after killing the bug things during the boss fight, quit the game, then jump back in. It will spawn you outside the boss room. Then repeat. You won't have to spent ages running back and forth. That boss is horrific.
Thry forgot that with rennala and placidusax, but yeah, i much rather have short runbacks, specially for the tough fights, some minibosses still has pretty bad runbacks though, same case with sekiro
@@jajasking9652they didn't forget with rennala because in the lore rennala destroyed every Marika statue in the academy and for placidussax a Marika's statue near his entrance would be impossible because placidussax's arena is placed miles above farum azula so the effect of the Marika statue would disappear and placing one inside his arena would just be strange.
Why not have Radagon statues, it wouldnt impact the lore and show she still cared about him. Plus help with twist of radagon and Marika build up. @@Ex-memegodita
@@abaddon_9941 rennala has a radagon statue behind her, she doesn't have any Marika statue because she hated her and only a sculptor knew about radagon and Marika being the same person (and maybe some other people, but I don't remember well). Maybe you are talking about having a radagon statue that has the same effect as a marika statue, well, in that case I have two options to make all coherent: 1: Marika's statues are created with that power by the guy that builds them, so it wouldn't make sense because nobody knew about radagon and Marika's secret and having the statue of a champion with the same power of a God is the most eretic thing I could think of and we all know what the erdtree do to eretics (it wouldn't be eretic because radagon is a God, but nobody knew so no one wanted to try and create a radagon statue with the same power); 2: Marika when she is Marika has powers that radagon doesn't have and vice versa, because of the miracles created by them like the law of causality and regression, so a radagon statue couldn't have the same power as a Marika's statue.
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340 I have in fact watched the whole video. it seems you're missing the (rather obvious) point: the majority of ds2 bosses are mediocre, and runbacks are usually way more challenging than the bosses. so, to reply in your same tones, I guess dude didnt play ds2...
I started doing these side by side comparisons as there were a few cases in DS3 that surprised me. Oceiros has like three different paths that are within seconds of each other, Yhorm has two paths that are the same, etc
@@Domo3000 3 for oceiros? the normal way, the shortcut? Ohh and the secret way in the shortcut! i love that the overall trend leans towards shorter runbacks.
@@childofcascadiaI like the shortcuts tho. Like Elden ring having so many graces kinda ruined the feeling of finding checkpoints and also made the shortcuts useless and there weren’t any shortcuts most of the time. It kinda takes away the good level design (level is different from world design) seen in previous games. I think ds3 has the best runbacks that usually aren’t to long or too short which keeps fun level design with shortcuts while not being too frustrating.
My trick for the Iron Keep was making the jump that's directly in front of Smelter Demon fog wall. Enemies will stop aggroing you. Then jump back and kill the one in front of Fog Wall, its enough time
I beat that boss without knowing how to run or jump. I had to take a few months off from playing to center myself for that one. Now I’m like “oh, bed of chaos, you silly goose!”
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340 Yes you can (at least in the Remastered version). Just hold the roll button. It's different from DS3 where you also have to hold L3 down.
@@JellyJmanNo, the problem is that he has a stupid unfair attack, when you position yourself behind him, he hits the ground multiple times with his tail, making it almost impossible to dodge properly.
I have over 1000 hours in DS2. Are you fucking kidding me with that ruin sentinel runback? I have never seen that path in a hundred playthroughs. What the fuck 😂😂
I found the shortcut in my 1st playthrough, but probably wasted more time than I saved due to how many times I missed and fell into the abyss. He makes it look easy, but I seem to recall a dog around there chasing you in addition to the other enemy. At any rate, I never had any time to stop and line it up.
The Seath runback made me quit Dark Souls for a while. So long, had to go through the entire Crystal caves again while dodging tough enemies AND you had to remember the invisible bridges. Extremely tedious/dumb.
Actually I just did the other path again, but pretty much flawless by rolling after the drop, not getting hit and having good stamina management and I was half a second faster than a relatively flawless run from Rosaria. So in the best case the runback from the Chapel might be a tiny bit faster, but when I took the average of 3 runs in both for this video Rosaria was faster.
This made me realize why they eventually removed the importance to runbacks. As boss design gained a bigger focus on the last games, and were harder, it would be more tedious to spend 1 minute going after it again compared to previous interactions were the boss fights werent the main dificulty. I still can see an attractive to them, but I think they should be used as a complementation rather than an annoyance.
@@abrahamrangel2326 Idk I would say that just because the last games has a bigger combat focus. They still have an appeal on Level design even if they nerfed the runbacks. That would sound like me saying that the older games to be walking simulators, which obviously aren't. These games are more than "X" simulator Imo. I still can understand though, the people Who aren't convinced with this diferent Focus, specially as a DS1 fan when except Some Big instances, they overall did a Great job balancing this out.
I like the stake of Marika where it's just a soft save. However, I think it should save your state. If you use 7 "estus" to get to the stake and save, then any time you reload there you should start from 8/15. And with that in mind I'd actually kind of like if you started at 10 from the "bonfire" and could get it up to max if you clear certain packs/enemies kind of like how you do in overworld in Elden Ring to disincentivize just rushing the fog gate. The point of all of this being to not trivialize all the regular enemies and traps. But so that you only have to do the run well, ONCE. Getting to the fog gate with the full stack could be a bit of a feat so you kind of have to decide if you want to keep trying the boss at 13 estus or improve your runback to get the full 15.
Redfish That is a very interesting idea but I dont think it fits what the developers had in mind when creating these games. You should try to spread that idea around enough to get it stuck in the minds of any potential indie devs who want to make a game inspired by the Souls difficulty. Would be pretty cool to see that design pop up somewhere.
stake of marika are probably one of the best additions to the game. what sense does it make to make a player play through an area they already played with the literal only goal being to make it go over as quickly as possible. Its just needlessly frustrating. Now is still dont get why tf each boss gotta drop bonfires like its definetly a staple at this point but i think we could do without that bloat, bonfires have to be special not expected.
B-but hardcore! I appreciate that Miyazaki's trying to make an actual game(with in-game tutorials for stuff, with stamina that doesn't drain out of combat, without these dumbass runs across the map), but he's still far from it
Elden Ring was my first souls game. I thought the run back in caves and catacombs that didn't have stake of marika was bad. After playing through Ds1-Ds3 and finding the shit shows of bed of chaos that's 99% run back and 1% fight if you ever miss the firebomb timing/ die from his fire/ ivory king that is so tedious to fight I came back over leveled just to kill it in one go.
@@MaximillionPegasusJ.CrawfordIt depends, souls are about struggle, if you remove the slight punishment so you can spam fights it takes out the "struggle". You can say the fight is the struggle, but that's the game strenght, the cool boss fights and overcoming the challenge, and also they're "mostly" fun and if they're not fun for you then maybe it's not the game for you. I guess its aimed at casual gamers.
@@mariusz7238 What a "subtle" way to call others casuals. I'm very comfortable with Souls Games, thanks. I like to play them, every now and then. I'm aware that long Runbacks are a thing. If you like long and annoying Runbacks, I recommend DS2, especially the DLC. You're probably the kind of guy to ask for more if someone kicks you in the nuts.
@@MaximillionPegasusJ.Crawford What's bad about being casual? Lately I also became casual, no time in life for grinding games. "You're probably the kind of guy to ask for more if someone kicks you in the nuts." Yea sometimes in souls the boss is designed badly, the path is wrong etc. But they were learning, it's not like they are gods that do everything right, there is also time and money involved. But you see I think in life everything that we want to be good at gives us a solid kicks in the nuts, but overcoming these is satisfactory. Also it fits with the series's narration.
@@mariusz7238 You see, all I said was that I like short runbacks and that I implied that I prefer them over longer ones. You went on to call me a casual and now you want to tell me that being a casual is not bad. The word casual lost it's original meaning years ago. People that don't play regularly are still casuals, but if the level of skill is low enough, even people that do play every day can be considered. So what you meant with your comment, was that you think my skill is low and that if a runback is a challenge for me, I should not play such games. Which is incredibly condescending. I don't understand where that came from. I don't understand why you felt the need to do that to me.
How long is the Pontiff runback if you don't unlock the shortcut? I missed the shortcut on my playthrough and I remember that runback being tedious considering how deadly the boss was.
Ooh, same. I unlocked the elevator shortcut but didn't find the other one, and it took me 27 tries to beat Pontiff (the most of any boss in the base game, and in both DLCs, only Friede took me more tries than that to kill). I was watching FightingCowboy's walktrhoughs, but only when I felt like I was done exploring the areas to make sure I wasn't missing anything I wanted, and he showed that gate, and I was pretty mad.
I really miss those 1 minute long runbacks. Not the ones in an elevator or empty space but runbacks like Artorias, Taurus or Gwyn where it’s a fair challenge itself to reach the boss with full health. Although that’s only the case because DS1 bosses aren’t that hard and usual go down in max five tries. In shadow of the erdtree I would go insane if it was that way.
That's true. It would reduce it by 6 seconds or something, but in this case the risk vs reward is way too high for me. That's the one shortcut jump that I mess up the most because it's hard to tell from above where to jump to, so I forgot to even consider it for this video.
@@Domo3000also DS2 has the infamous baby jumps that would fuck up the Skip, even if your jump spot and angle is perfect You should have consider the anor londo ladder jump skip IMO, is really known among thr comunity and is how most people runs back to OaS, though if you miss it a few times, you have to deal with the silver knight
Dark Souls 1 runbacks were SO FUCKING ANNOYING Dark Souls 2 from memory was not that bad. Dark Souls 3 took like 22 seconds every boss. Bloodborne takes around 20-30 seconds depending on the boss. Elden Ring has stakes of merika. Demon's Souls takes upwards of a minute to get back as there isn't checkpoints.
Another aspect to consider is the difficulty in getting past all of the enemies along the way. I think that’s why a lot of DS2 run backs feel worse than the times here would suggest. Running through to Smelter Demon, Blue Smelter Demon, and Sir Alonne are difficult to do while avoiding everyone, especially given the lack of fog wall invincibility. Clearly it can be done, as you’ve shown here, but I really struggled with those and ended up despawning most of the enemies in those areas. And then there’s Darklurker. On top of being the only run back in the whole series to require you to fight the enemies (possible exception of Ivory King), he also requires you to pay one effigy per attempt. I didn’t run out of effigies while grinding him, but the thought of having to grind for more just to get one more try is absolutely awful. I’d probably put it as the worst run back in the series, though Lud and Zallen are definitely a close second. With all of that said, I appreciate the data collection and presentation here.
Wait is that really an intended shortcut for ruin sentinals at 5:55? I didn't know that wtf lol. Thought it was a troll door meant for you to fall if you weren't careful enough.
Useless info but can actually make a fog wall appear at gravetender and greatwolf if you shoot a wolf with a bow without dropping off the ledge. The music will start and stop if you walk a few feet back from the fog wall its hilarious
Pretty interesting data! I think another important factor is the difficulty of the runback. For example, even though the Mytha runback is quite short, I found it pretty annoying on my first playthrough because it's pretty tricky to slip past the gravewardens in the narrow corridor without being hit. Capra Demon and Ruin Sentinels are other runbacks that I always found pretty tricky. Dogs are really hard to run past to begin with, and getting to the Ruin Sentinels from that direction requires a pretty precise jump, that I basically never manage to make with the dog chasing after me. So, I almost always go from the other bonfire, even though it's slower. But even so, there's a lot of enemies to slip past in a pretty tight space, so it can be pretty difficult to get back. So even though the (DS2) Belfry Gargs runback is longer it never felt as bad to me, because there are relatively few enemies, they're pretty slow, and there's lots of space to maneuver.
Funny thing is, the commonly held opinion that boss run backs in DS2 take forever is bron from a few factors: 1- the levels themselves are often much more difficult than the bosses 2- the possibility of being interrupted while crossing the fogwall often forces you to clear the nearby enemies 3- fucking Zallen and Lud, by themselves, are definitely one of the things that contributed the most to convince people of that even more than before, running through Frigid Outskirts is so bad that I genuinely hope FromSoft has an entire wall in their office with the words "FRIGID OUTSKIRTS WAS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE WE'VE EVER MADE" just so they never forget how embarrassed they should be that they shipped DLC for DS2 that was that appallingly bad
Another alternative to measuring would be to count until you see the boss health bar on the screen. Not sure if that would have other complications though.
Should not have complications And i think there's really few bosses that has this situation ( btw, why 3 of them are ds3 dlc bosses ? ) Halflight church Gael Gravetender Arguably royal rat vanguard, if you consider the "kill 10 rats for the boss to spawn" as part of the bossfight Royal rat authority nameless king i think? ( But it would only be like 2-3 extra seconds ) Pontyff sulyvahnn ( though you can hit him before his opening attack, but is soo far that few spells, if any reaches him, and bows/crossbows does minuscule damage ) 4 kings Kalameth Nashka ( ok i forgot how the scorpion lady is called ) + All the 2 fights with your criteria that domo adresed on this video soo 11/92 bosses has this situation, being the ds3 dlc bosses and the rat bosses the most relevant, the rest is just a few seconds
My first soulslike was Bloodborne and I've played most soulslikes since then but I never played DS1 and DS2. I played them this year and I was surprised how DS1 specifically is nothing like everything they made after that. Because for example Sekiro, Bloodborne and DS3 are all boss focused RPGs but DS1 is more sort of a weird platformer that tests your spacial awareness and endurance more than your skill in pattern memorization and reaction. It's weird how genre evolved into what it is right now.
Yeah I agree. People often say that DS2 is different than the other Souls games, but for me it's DS3 that's the odd one out because there you can really see the switch in design philosophy to more flashy bosses and less on the slow and methodical combat, role playing and exploration of the previous games.
DS1 got its reputation for fun cool bosses because ornstein and smough were accidentally an amazing fight for skill expression in a new genre. Then artorias showed up in the DLC alongside manus and kalameet, and those 3 DLC bosses + O&S cemented the foundation of high paced rolly dodgy fighty combat that the series would really become known for. Examples of a few fights that were like... proto-roll-and-dodge bosses are Capra Demon, Belfry Gargoyles, Sanctuary Guardian, and to a degree Four Kings. In DS2, the bosses are almost uniformly knowledge / puzzles and less of dodge learning checks. It's much more of an RPG than an action game; most problems are solved with gear, levels, or observation/trial and error, rather than studying a boss's move patterns through play. DS2 was the last fromsoft game to have difficult world traversal. The runbacks depicted here are by an extremely good ds2 player, ds2 has by far the highest failure rate on runbacks due to enemy placement and density combined with moderately long travel times. Having recently finished level 1 melee only runs of all 3 games, I think ds2 might be the hardest overall at level 1. The things that are difficult about its bosses are mostly jank lingering hitboxes (lack of adp vastly amplifies the hitboxes which already have a lot of active frames) or thrust and overhead attacks with misaligned or large hitboxes, but most bosses are very easy and extremely forgiving to learn, whereas some of the levels are very hard. I think I only really had an excellent time with 2 bosses in DS2, Sinh and Fume Knight. They're both really fun. Fume Knight in particular is so much fun to fight because he has JUST the bare minimum of excellence in a boss moveset. It's truly impressive how lean his design is, almost none of his moves are wasted, or duplicative in their purpose. Banger fight, I went from dying 10+ times while learning him to killing him first try on my next character. Sinh also has a really good moveset, and importantly good punish windows. Even his "get off me" attacks, like his low hp fire breath, can have their tells read and let you maneuver to get hits in.
Made me realize longer doesn mean worse, blue smelter demon is technically in the average time range even tho it felt way longer, but its probably the 2nd worst, while gaping dragon, who im sure has never complained about walking back, takes longer
Great video 👍 For the dragonslayer armour runback, although i havent measured, ive always taken the lift shortcut. it feels the intended route, and way quicker. Althought that might just be becuse you dont need to actually run, i can be on my phone as the lift goes up
@@Domo3000 I just watched the video. for me i'll always choose the lift shortcuts in lothric, as you dont need to avoid enemies. interesting to see its actually longer though, thanks!
You should have stopped the timer when the boss health bar appeared to make it more realistic and standardized between fights. Either way I enjoyed the vid and it confirmed to me my pain when dying to Artorias repeatedly.
Might be fun to also look into demons souls runbacks. I think the people who complain about ds2 runback, either have skill issue with the enemies, so they take more time or are people who got used to newer games, but that's expected, compare any old franchise and you see older games had less checkpoints. I think the newer games have made people think more highly of bosses, when in Demon through DS2, you gotta take the level and boss together in account, some level were hard but easy boss and some hard boss had easier levels, not all the time tho.
I think the worst boss to ever run back in a Souls game is Shadow of Yharnam. There are worst bosses out there, and I know someone else would dispute me against this. But what makes the shadows of Yharnam so bad is just how there’s so much bad shit stacked onto it. One of them is how agonizingly fucking long the run back is, and if you’re not careful, the enemies around the area can fuck your shit too. Horrible, horrible boss.
the only two bosses i have never killed in the souls games are lud and zallen and darklurker. I spent 2 hours dying without even making it to lud and zallen so i gave up. And darklurker, you have to waste a human effigy, and not only that you have to fight like 3 npcs gank squad style in a tiny cave just to fight the darklurker. no thanks
Its kinda weird to see these videos, since I play the scholar version on the ps3, which has almost all aspects of vanilla pc version, thus not having a lot of the things I'd like to have
3:31 - The Pinwheel runback here is just for the remastered version, since they added that bonfire with the remaster. In the original game you had a much longer runback. Edit: 18:45 - woops
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
Here's a follow up video about worst case runbacks which covers cases like not respawning at the Gwyndolin bonfire: ruclips.net/video/j4VnT31TkfI/видео.htmlsi=rjPEd0eEsaZN6jIn
That one friend with no car when the hangout session ends
This video proves why stake of marika in Elden Ring is a small change with huge impacts.
Maybe no, actually the bosses in DS Trilogy are very very easy comparing to elden ring
and most of the hard bosses have a bonfire next to him, fume knight, gael, nameless king etc...
id prefer it was used more often instead of bonfire spam. Think fromsoft thought the same with dungeons like darklight catacombs
Was hoping for a distribution chart at the end.
Wasn't dissapointed to say the least.
The runback for Artorias is mind-numbing, especially since it took me 12-15 times to best him. I really dislike having to ride an elevator each time, especially when you forget to send it back before your next run. Man, it was painful.
In all honesty, I haven't suffered the run through the snow field to get to Lud and Zallen. I've seen and heard enough horror stories of that and decided I simply never want to do it myself.
Not even worth it since the duo bossfight is just as hellish as the runback there.
Homer: Dont worry, i will find the king before i turn hollow.
Marge:Homer, you are already hollow.
Homer: 7:55
Was disinformation about Dark Souls 2 ever misinformation? Did its detractors ever have good intentions? When and how did it become a part of the zeitgeist to trash it?
DS2 is such a unique case in gaming. I can’t name another game whose detractors propagandized their dislike of it.
Hell yeah Domo, this is fantastic, detailed work. You’re the champion DS2 has needed for the last decade.
You could write an entire case study on why certain games (and media in general) become far more 'infamous' than the sum of their parts actually justify. An example that comes to mind is Banjo-Kazooie Nuts & Bolts. It made a bad first impression, mocking previous games and changing up its genre in a way that fans didn't ask for. It was universally maligned for around a decade, even generally considered be the reason the franchise died -- long story short, fans are starting to come around and consider it a good game, even misunderstood and underrated.
I'm also seeing more and more people saying GTA IV is actually a better game than GTA V; something I've felt for ten years, but honestly never expected. Hindsight is a strange and powerful thing.
It happens every time a major franchise has many entries with equal importance.
Fallout
Yakuza
Resident Evil
There’s always one game that gets picked as the “bad” one even if it’s the best.
especially when you think about that it would hurt the same company. fromsoft in this case.
@larrywalker1371 ds1 can't be improved upon? new londo, the whole ass izalith and demon area, lame as gwyn boss, no connectivity beyond undead burg, teleportation between only specific bonfires, a veeeerrryy limit supplies if endgame upgrade materials. and even the remaster especially on pc was an insult.
@@elijahfyffe5176 silent hill 4: the room
Great video, 0 fat
Bloodborne players when you mention runbacks
Please show us how to Frigid Outskirts
Dont most people usually use the firelink bonfire for the capra demon? That one is much better and might be shorter
It takes like 15 seconds longer, but is easier. The tunnel alone takes like 20 seconds.
Further proof that the Rat King is a gracious ruler, considerate of his guests.
Rat-King good to man-things yes-yes
Praise be to the Rat King.
Best NPC in the series!
Be nice to Morgott
Human! Slay mine enemies!
pinwheel 0s because you never need to run back
Same with deacons of the deep lmao
@@Lukart59some challenge runs make that boss impossible lol
I never found the bonfire in lost izalith so I ran to the bed of chaos from the bonfire with Solare. it was very fun and took 5 mins to get to the boss, and 5 sec to get pushed into a hole in the ground.
And even that "shortcut" is missable
lol I used the one before Centipede Demon so I could take the "shortcut" with the titanite demon and didn't need to equip de charred ring
XD
I know this is a late reply, but if you didn't know, after killing the bug things during the boss fight, quit the game, then jump back in. It will spawn you outside the boss room. Then repeat. You won't have to spent ages running back and forth. That boss is horrific.
Based on Elden Ring’s run backs, it seems to FromSoft Now that any run back beyond 30s is too much. I would agree
In the case of Elden Ring with not only bosses but also regular enemies being tougher to fight I think it's for the better.
Thry forgot that with rennala and placidusax, but yeah, i much rather have short runbacks, specially for the tough fights, some minibosses still has pretty bad runbacks though, same case with sekiro
@@jajasking9652they didn't forget with rennala because in the lore rennala destroyed every Marika statue in the academy and for placidussax a Marika's statue near his entrance would be impossible because placidussax's arena is placed miles above farum azula so the effect of the Marika statue would disappear and placing one inside his arena would just be strange.
Why not have Radagon statues, it wouldnt impact the lore and show she still cared about him. Plus help with twist of radagon and Marika build up. @@Ex-memegodita
@@abaddon_9941 rennala has a radagon statue behind her, she doesn't have any Marika statue because she hated her and only a sculptor knew about radagon and Marika being the same person (and maybe some other people, but I don't remember well). Maybe you are talking about having a radagon statue that has the same effect as a marika statue, well, in that case I have two options to make all coherent:
1: Marika's statues are created with that power by the guy that builds them, so it wouldn't make sense because nobody knew about radagon and Marika's secret and having the statue of a champion with the same power of a God is the most eretic thing I could think of and we all know what the erdtree do to eretics (it wouldn't be eretic because radagon is a God, but nobody knew so no one wanted to try and create a radagon statue with the same power);
2: Marika when she is Marika has powers that radagon doesn't have and vice versa, because of the miracles created by them like the law of causality and regression, so a radagon statue couldn't have the same power as a Marika's statue.
Maybe the real bosses were the runbacks we made along the way.
definitely true for ds2
@@marce3893 dude didnt watch the video...
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340 I have in fact watched the whole video. it seems you're missing the (rather obvious) point: the majority of ds2 bosses are mediocre, and runbacks are usually way more challenging than the bosses.
so, to reply in your same tones, I guess dude didnt play ds2...
That comment actually makes sense in a way
Real shit
11:35 Miyazaki pov
5:55 HOLY SHIT, so that was the purpose of that "useless" wall door near the sentinel bosses. The more you know...
yep its a shortcut from on side and a: "oh you paniked and run into the room? and all you saw was this door? lmao dead" troll door from the other xD
WHAT THE HELL I ONLY FIND THIS NOW???????????????
No way
god damn it
it actually ended up wasting even more time for me since I missed the doorway like 5 times and died
The sound of the sped up footsteps is oddly satisfying
You know Domo is a pro when he can make frigid outskirts look easy.
I would expect nothing less from god's strongest dark souls 2 defender
I've still never beaten that boss as somebody who prefers to play solo. The only one I gave up on.
I hated Reindeer fuckland...
@@Rigel______I summon the npc to get through the area and send them home when I reach the boss
16:48 didn't know there were machine guns in dark souls lmao
😂
if people thought dark souls 1 or 2 had tedious runbacks, wait till they play Demons Souls, that would skew the data further in the long times
The run to the old hero or ps3 king Allant were something else.
@@BdrRm Don't forget Valley of Defilement, that place really stretched the meaning of the word "shortcut" 💀
@@Er404ChannelNotFound you mean 3-1? I didn't die to leechmonger, but If I remember correctly there is no shortcuts.
Yeah but if you’re dying to demons souls bosses you got bigger problems
@@idontcare9661 People in 2009 didn't have 6 Souls style games under their belt
ayo twin princes actually both ways being almost the same is a bit of a shocker for me tbh.
I started doing these side by side comparisons as there were a few cases in DS3 that surprised me. Oceiros has like three different paths that are within seconds of each other, Yhorm has two paths that are the same, etc
Same
@@Domo3000 3 for oceiros? the normal way, the shortcut? Ohh and the secret way in the shortcut!
i love that the overall trend leans towards shorter runbacks.
Because long runbacks are annoying. Youre not exploring or fighting, youre just tearing ass thru as fast as you can to get to the boss.
@@childofcascadiaI like the shortcuts tho. Like Elden ring having so many graces kinda ruined the feeling of finding checkpoints and also made the shortcuts useless and there weren’t any shortcuts most of the time. It kinda takes away the good level design (level is different from world design) seen in previous games. I think ds3 has the best runbacks that usually aren’t to long or too short which keeps fun level design with shortcuts while not being too frustrating.
Just kill the boss first try bro.
Kill the Bed of Chaos in 1 attempt. No previous battle experience with this boss
Yeah, it seems most long ass run back bosses were easy ones.
Runback is one thing, another thing is the enemies along the way
Ypu gota love ds 3 shortcuts which save zero time :D
I am going to assume the intention was to make them easier by skipping enemies.
@@goncalocarneiro3043 Would be usefull if the enemies werent so easy to ran past by
Impressive how you managed some of these DS2 runbacks. My smelter demon runbacks never go that easy💀 Not to mention the frigid outskirts
My trick for the Iron Keep was making the jump that's directly in front of Smelter Demon fog wall. Enemies will stop aggroing you. Then jump back and kill the one in front of Fog Wall, its enough time
Bed of chaos had the funniest runback ever
I beat that boss without knowing how to run or jump. I had to take a few months off from playing to center myself for that one. Now I’m like “oh, bed of chaos, you silly goose!”
@@Zapdos7471 You didn't know how to run? Did you know you can slide down ladders by pressing circle/B?
@@giannixx No, I started with kb and mouse on PC and only got a controller well after the one tutorial message you get in the starting hallway.
@@giannixx you cant slide down in ds1 lmao
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340 Yes you can (at least in the Remastered version). Just hold the roll button. It's different from DS3 where you also have to hold L3 down.
mans out here answering the real questions
Seath runback is EVEN more frustrating if you try to cut his tail.
When I tried to get his tail I almost killed him, I just quit out the game to reset myself in front of the fog wall.
@@JellyJmanNo, the problem is that he has a stupid unfair attack, when you position yourself behind him, he hits the ground multiple times with his tail, making it almost impossible to dodge properly.
@@kuremenze4861 yeah that almost killed me too lol, thankful I had like 40 vitality+FaP when I fought him
@@JellyJman you fap while killing ds bosses? zamn
I used to think that too, then I fought Kalameet...
I have over 1000 hours in DS2. Are you fucking kidding me with that ruin sentinel runback? I have never seen that path in a hundred playthroughs. What the fuck 😂😂
I found the shortcut in my 1st playthrough, but probably wasted more time than I saved due to how many times I missed and fell into the abyss. He makes it look easy, but I seem to recall a dog around there chasing you in addition to the other enemy. At any rate, I never had any time to stop and line it up.
@@edistotiger82 The dog's there in the original DS2, Scholar edition removed it.
The Seath runback made me quit Dark Souls for a while. So long, had to go through the entire Crystal caves again while dodging tough enemies AND you had to remember the invisible bridges. Extremely tedious/dumb.
The quickest way back to the Deacons being from the Rosaria bonfire was the biggest surprise of the whole video, I never even considered it
Both take pretty much the same amount of time.
Actually I just did the other path again, but pretty much flawless by rolling after the drop, not getting hit and having good stamina management and I was half a second faster than a relatively flawless run from Rosaria.
So in the best case the runback from the Chapel might be a tiny bit faster, but when I took the average of 3 runs in both for this video Rosaria was faster.
Never considered having to do a runback, its one of 2 bosses I defeated on my first try, the other being Wolnir
Honestly you're not gonna die on Deacons so it doesn't really matter
@@thesenate1844damn thats interesting, its one of the 4 bosses i didnt beat first try lol
This made me realize why they eventually removed the importance to runbacks.
As boss design gained a bigger focus on the last games, and were harder, it would be more tedious to spend 1 minute going after it again compared to previous interactions were the boss fights werent the main dificulty.
I still can see an attractive to them, but I think they should be used as a complementation rather than an annoyance.
They just turned souls games into boss rush simulator
@@abrahamrangel2326 Idk I would say that just because the last games has a bigger combat focus. They still have an appeal on Level design even if they nerfed the runbacks.
That would sound like me saying that the older games to be walking simulators, which obviously aren't. These games are more than "X" simulator Imo.
I still can understand though, the people Who aren't convinced with this diferent Focus, specially as a DS1 fan when except Some Big instances, they overall did a Great job balancing this out.
I like the stake of Marika where it's just a soft save. However, I think it should save your state.
If you use 7 "estus" to get to the stake and save, then any time you reload there you should start from 8/15.
And with that in mind I'd actually kind of like if you started at 10 from the "bonfire" and could get it up to max if you clear certain packs/enemies kind of like how you do in overworld in Elden Ring to disincentivize just rushing the fog gate.
The point of all of this being to not trivialize all the regular enemies and traps.
But so that you only have to do the run well, ONCE.
Getting to the fog gate with the full stack could be a bit of a feat so you kind of have to decide if you want to keep trying the boss at 13 estus or improve your runback to get the full 15.
Redfish
That is a very interesting idea but I dont think it fits what the developers had in mind when creating these games. You should try to spread that idea around enough to get it stuck in the minds of any potential indie devs who want to make a game inspired by the Souls difficulty. Would be pretty cool to see that design pop up somewhere.
This is why in the last DLC, you have a bonfire right at the boss.
stake of marika are probably one of the best additions to the game. what sense does it make to make a player play through an area they already played with the literal only goal being to make it go over as quickly as possible. Its just needlessly frustrating. Now is still dont get why tf each boss gotta drop bonfires like its definetly a staple at this point but i think we could do without that bloat, bonfires have to be special not expected.
I remember when i beat Dragon Slayer, and after resting at his bonfire, only to walk 12 steps to another bonfire 😂
@@YEY0806 yeah it doesnt exactly hurt the experience but its always a small moment of "what were they thinking?"
B-but hardcore!
I appreciate that Miyazaki's trying to make an actual game(with in-game tutorials for stuff, with stamina that doesn't drain out of combat, without these dumbass runs across the map), but he's still far from it
Putting in actual effort instead of saying "no u".
Not that you'd do that, but it's still worth saying xP
Elden Ring communtiy gonna fall asleep to the lengths of some of these runs
Elden Ring was my first souls game. I thought the run back in caves and catacombs that didn't have stake of marika was bad. After playing through Ds1-Ds3 and finding the shit shows of bed of chaos that's 99% run back and 1% fight if you ever miss the firebomb timing/ die from his fire/ ivory king that is so tedious to fight I came back over leveled just to kill it in one go.
90% of the elden ring community has already played previous titles clown
Literally almost did LMAO
Been playing souls since demon and the runbacks is something I definitely don't miss hahaha 🥴
@@kappachino335 elden ring is the most famous one, some ppl even call ds3 a bad COPY of elden ring cus they played elden ring first😹
average elden ring runback: 3 seconds
I think that's better.
@@MaximillionPegasusJ.CrawfordIt depends, souls are about struggle, if you remove the slight punishment so you can spam fights it takes out the "struggle". You can say the fight is the struggle, but that's the game strenght, the cool boss fights and overcoming the challenge, and also they're "mostly" fun and if they're not fun for you then maybe it's not the game for you. I guess its aimed at casual gamers.
@@mariusz7238 What a "subtle" way to call others casuals.
I'm very comfortable with Souls Games, thanks. I like to play them, every now and then. I'm aware that long Runbacks are a thing. If you like long and annoying Runbacks, I recommend DS2, especially the DLC.
You're probably the kind of guy to ask for more if someone kicks you in the nuts.
@@MaximillionPegasusJ.Crawford What's bad about being casual? Lately I also became casual, no time in life for grinding games.
"You're probably the kind of guy to ask for more if someone kicks you in the nuts."
Yea sometimes in souls the boss is designed badly, the path is wrong etc. But they were learning, it's not like they are gods that do everything right, there is also time and money involved.
But you see I think in life everything that we want to be good at gives us a solid kicks in the nuts, but overcoming these is satisfactory.
Also it fits with the series's narration.
@@mariusz7238 You see, all I said was that I like short runbacks and that I implied that I prefer them over longer ones. You went on to call me a casual and now you want to tell me that being a casual is not bad. The word casual lost it's original meaning years ago. People that don't play regularly are still casuals, but if the level of skill is low enough, even people that do play every day can be considered. So what you meant with your comment, was that you think my skill is low and that if a runback is a challenge for me, I should not play such games. Which is incredibly condescending.
I don't understand where that came from. I don't understand why you felt the need to do that to me.
This is the level of detail we've come to expect from Domo. It goes so hard
How long is the Pontiff runback if you don't unlock the shortcut? I missed the shortcut on my playthrough and I remember that runback being tedious considering how deadly the boss was.
It takes like twice as long, plus dogs!
ruclips.net/video/h5ORE_sVdg8/видео.html
Ooh, same. I unlocked the elevator shortcut but didn't find the other one, and it took me 27 tries to beat Pontiff (the most of any boss in the base game, and in both DLCs, only Friede took me more tries than that to kill). I was watching FightingCowboy's walktrhoughs, but only when I felt like I was done exploring the areas to make sure I wasn't missing anything I wanted, and he showed that gate, and I was pretty mad.
I really miss those 1 minute long runbacks. Not the ones in an elevator or empty space but runbacks like Artorias, Taurus or Gwyn where it’s a fair challenge itself to reach the boss with full health. Although that’s only the case because DS1 bosses aren’t that hard and usual go down in max five tries. In shadow of the erdtree I would go insane if it was that way.
Frigid outskirts, oh Frigid outskirts...
I quit ds1 because of the Gwyn runback lmao
You're so underrated
Couldn't you shave off a few seconds for the first Dragon Rider boss run if you make the jump to the chest?
That's true. It would reduce it by 6 seconds or something, but in this case the risk vs reward is way too high for me. That's the one shortcut jump that I mess up the most because it's hard to tell from above where to jump to, so I forgot to even consider it for this video.
@@Domo3000you did well, that jump really isn't worth it unless you're speedrunning
@@Domo3000 i practiced this jump for my "get the ladle" any% and also still fail it sometimes 😂
@@Domo3000 I usually only attempt that jump to have fun and make it look like I actually know what I am doing 🤣
@@Domo3000also DS2 has the infamous baby jumps that would fuck up the Skip, even if your jump spot and angle is perfect
You should have consider the anor londo ladder jump skip IMO, is really known among thr comunity and is how most people runs back to OaS, though if you miss it a few times, you have to deal with the silver knight
Dark Souls 1 runbacks were SO FUCKING ANNOYING
Dark Souls 2 from memory was not that bad.
Dark Souls 3 took like 22 seconds every boss.
Bloodborne takes around 20-30 seconds depending on the boss.
Elden Ring has stakes of merika.
Demon's Souls takes upwards of a minute to get back as there isn't checkpoints.
I think we know now why he's called Sir Alonne, MAYBE IF YOUR BOSSROOM WASN'T SO FAR AWAY YOU'D HAVE MORE FRIENDS, HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Another aspect to consider is the difficulty in getting past all of the enemies along the way. I think that’s why a lot of DS2 run backs feel worse than the times here would suggest. Running through to Smelter Demon, Blue Smelter Demon, and Sir Alonne are difficult to do while avoiding everyone, especially given the lack of fog wall invincibility. Clearly it can be done, as you’ve shown here, but I really struggled with those and ended up despawning most of the enemies in those areas.
And then there’s Darklurker. On top of being the only run back in the whole series to require you to fight the enemies (possible exception of Ivory King), he also requires you to pay one effigy per attempt. I didn’t run out of effigies while grinding him, but the thought of having to grind for more just to get one more try is absolutely awful. I’d probably put it as the worst run back in the series, though Lud and Zallen are definitely a close second.
With all of that said, I appreciate the data collection and presentation here.
Wait is that really an intended shortcut for ruin sentinals at 5:55? I didn't know that wtf lol. Thought it was a troll door meant for you to fall if you weren't careful enough.
It has the be intended because they deliberately made it possible. If it was unintended they would not have removed the ledge.
Useless info but can actually make a fog wall appear at gravetender and greatwolf if you shoot a wolf with a bow without dropping off the ledge. The music will start and stop if you walk a few feet back from the fog wall its hilarious
Pretty interesting data! I think another important factor is the difficulty of the runback. For example, even though the Mytha runback is quite short, I found it pretty annoying on my first playthrough because it's pretty tricky to slip past the gravewardens in the narrow corridor without being hit. Capra Demon and Ruin Sentinels are other runbacks that I always found pretty tricky. Dogs are really hard to run past to begin with, and getting to the Ruin Sentinels from that direction requires a pretty precise jump, that I basically never manage to make with the dog chasing after me. So, I almost always go from the other bonfire, even though it's slower. But even so, there's a lot of enemies to slip past in a pretty tight space, so it can be pretty difficult to get back. So even though the (DS2) Belfry Gargs runback is longer it never felt as bad to me, because there are relatively few enemies, they're pretty slow, and there's lots of space to maneuver.
Let’s be honest here: we all knew what the longest would be.
Genuinely forgot covetous demon had a runback because I've never died to him😂
In DS1 its so bad sometimes that I try to overlevel and overprepare to one-try every boss. Just because I don't want to do the runbacks.
Dark souls 2 Rat King is litteraly the best ruler of the series.
Funny thing is, the commonly held opinion that boss run backs in DS2 take forever is bron from a few factors:
1- the levels themselves are often much more difficult than the bosses
2- the possibility of being interrupted while crossing the fogwall often forces you to clear the nearby enemies
3- fucking Zallen and Lud, by themselves, are definitely one of the things that contributed the most to convince people of that even more than before, running through Frigid Outskirts is so bad that I genuinely hope FromSoft has an entire wall in their office with the words "FRIGID OUTSKIRTS WAS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE WE'VE EVER MADE" just so they never forget how embarrassed they should be that they shipped DLC for DS2 that was that appallingly bad
13:28 what a place to lose a controller
Yeah…you should have added “if you’re lucky” in parentheses for a lot of these.
this seems like a well done video, but i strongly dislike this AI voice thing you got going on.
if its standard TTS feel free to correct me but i still don't like how it sounds 😭
You know, I didn't noticed the cage elevator in Zen's fortress, so...
I know that feeling. I probably can still run perfectly through all of Sen's
Did you light the midway bonfire at least? Lol
Lotta people miss that one too.
Another alternative to measuring would be to count until you see the boss health bar on the screen. Not sure if that would have other complications though.
Should not have complications
And i think there's really few bosses that has this situation ( btw, why 3 of them are ds3 dlc bosses ? )
Halflight church
Gael
Gravetender
Arguably royal rat vanguard, if you consider the "kill 10 rats for the boss to spawn" as part of the bossfight
Royal rat authority
nameless king i think? ( But it would only be like 2-3 extra seconds )
Pontyff sulyvahnn ( though you can hit him before his opening attack, but is soo far that few spells, if any reaches him, and bows/crossbows does minuscule damage )
4 kings
Kalameth
Nashka ( ok i forgot how the scorpion lady is called )
+ All the 2 fights with your criteria that domo adresed on this video soo
11/92 bosses has this situation, being the ds3 dlc bosses and the rat bosses the most relevant, the rest is just a few seconds
Petition to put Stake of Marika's in old Souls games.
My first soulslike was Bloodborne and I've played most soulslikes since then but I never played DS1 and DS2. I played them this year and I was surprised how DS1 specifically is nothing like everything they made after that. Because for example Sekiro, Bloodborne and DS3 are all boss focused RPGs but DS1 is more sort of a weird platformer that tests your spacial awareness and endurance more than your skill in pattern memorization and reaction. It's weird how genre evolved into what it is right now.
Yeah I agree. People often say that DS2 is different than the other Souls games, but for me it's DS3 that's the odd one out because there you can really see the switch in design philosophy to more flashy bosses and less on the slow and methodical combat, role playing and exploration of the previous games.
DS1 got its reputation for fun cool bosses because ornstein and smough were accidentally an amazing fight for skill expression in a new genre. Then artorias showed up in the DLC alongside manus and kalameet, and those 3 DLC bosses + O&S cemented the foundation of high paced rolly dodgy fighty combat that the series would really become known for. Examples of a few fights that were like... proto-roll-and-dodge bosses are Capra Demon, Belfry Gargoyles, Sanctuary Guardian, and to a degree Four Kings.
In DS2, the bosses are almost uniformly knowledge / puzzles and less of dodge learning checks. It's much more of an RPG than an action game; most problems are solved with gear, levels, or observation/trial and error, rather than studying a boss's move patterns through play. DS2 was the last fromsoft game to have difficult world traversal. The runbacks depicted here are by an extremely good ds2 player, ds2 has by far the highest failure rate on runbacks due to enemy placement and density combined with moderately long travel times.
Having recently finished level 1 melee only runs of all 3 games, I think ds2 might be the hardest overall at level 1. The things that are difficult about its bosses are mostly jank lingering hitboxes (lack of adp vastly amplifies the hitboxes which already have a lot of active frames) or thrust and overhead attacks with misaligned or large hitboxes, but most bosses are very easy and extremely forgiving to learn, whereas some of the levels are very hard.
I think I only really had an excellent time with 2 bosses in DS2, Sinh and Fume Knight. They're both really fun. Fume Knight in particular is so much fun to fight because he has JUST the bare minimum of excellence in a boss moveset. It's truly impressive how lean his design is, almost none of his moves are wasted, or duplicative in their purpose. Banger fight, I went from dying 10+ times while learning him to killing him first try on my next character. Sinh also has a really good moveset, and importantly good punish windows. Even his "get off me" attacks, like his low hp fire breath, can have their tells read and let you maneuver to get hits in.
DS1 is just painful because of the runback. I honestly glad that I beat Gwyn under 10 tries because I was about to lose it with the runback
It's funny how I took on Gwyn from the first try, but kept dying to Sif a lot because I was so underleveled
Ashen one, purloiner of *STUBBORN belly fat! Learn how this undead BURNED off 3 inches with cardio!*
TIL people that think DS2 has horrible runbacks are really just super salty about Lud and Zallen.
Made me realize longer doesn mean worse, blue smelter demon is technically in the average time range even tho it felt way longer, but its probably the 2nd worst, while gaping dragon, who im sure has never complained about walking back, takes longer
I knew exactly what the last one would be. F**k Frozen Outskirts, the worst area in the entire trilogy.
Damn I just realized I missed a lot of bonfire in Ds2
Meanwhile Elden Ring:
Yeah let's just summon the player right before the fog gate
Do you think thats a bad thing?
@@lokoo_ No, in fact it's great to have that featured in the game
Why is this video so hypnotic to watch?
Relaxing footsteps
The sound effects, and how easily he does them.
Kids these days gone soft with their stakes of Marika... In my day we ran 5 minutes to each boss attempt and we LIKED IT
no we fucken didnt
I love the sped-up pitter patter of the character's footsteps.
Great video 👍
For the dragonslayer armour runback, although i havent measured, ive always taken the lift shortcut. it feels the intended route, and way quicker.
Althought that might just be becuse you dont need to actually run, i can be on my phone as the lift goes up
@@rumatazero I have a follow up video about useless shortcuts in DS3 that shows that it takes over 10 seconds longer to use the elevator
@@Domo3000 I just watched the video. for me i'll always choose the lift shortcuts in lothric, as you dont need to avoid enemies. interesting to see its actually longer though, thanks!
You should have stopped the timer when the boss health bar appeared to make it more realistic and standardized between fights. Either way I enjoyed the vid and it confirmed to me my pain when dying to Artorias repeatedly.
Can you do one for the other Soulsborne games (Demon Souls, BB, Sekiro and Elden Ring)
Domo dismantling the arguments in the comminity one by one, always a good piece of content
38 views in 11 minutes bros poppin off
Straight gold rush
aw man this doin numbers...
And the numbers are still going up 😳😊
20:03 These phantoms getting squashed like bugs looks hilarious.
i started the video thinking the pontiff runback was long, but i radically changed my mind in the end
elden ring be like: a "run back"? the hell is that?
Might be fun to also look into demons souls runbacks. I think the people who complain about ds2 runback, either have skill issue with the enemies, so they take more time or are people who got used to newer games, but that's expected, compare any old franchise and you see older games had less checkpoints.
I think the newer games have made people think more highly of bosses, when in Demon through DS2, you gotta take the level and boss together in account, some level were hard but easy boss and some hard boss had easier levels, not all the time tho.
Bloodborne bosses 💀
When I played ds2, somehow I could beat the pets of frigid outskirts 1st try. I'm glad I did xd
Great video. Now do bloodborne sekiro Elden ring and demons souls…my dear Lord, demons souls.
DS1 runbacks are so terrible they actually keep me from wanting to replay the game.
Easy trick for this. Just kill the boss. Makes runback time = 0.
Bed of chaos made me stop playing for about 9 months. Finally beat the game yesterday
Love that BedofChaos starts with a machinegun when sped up
This guy is a gift from god
Sped up dark souls running is so funny
I think the worst boss to ever run back in a Souls game is Shadow of Yharnam. There are worst bosses out there, and I know someone else would dispute me against this.
But what makes the shadows of Yharnam so bad is just how there’s so much bad shit stacked onto it. One of them is how agonizingly fucking long the run back is, and if you’re not careful, the enemies around the area can fuck your shit too.
Horrible, horrible boss.
Was it the long one through the forest with the pig at the end?
@@Domo3000 Yes, that nightmareish runback
the only two bosses i have never killed in the souls games are lud and zallen and darklurker. I spent 2 hours dying without even making it to lud and zallen so i gave up. And darklurker, you have to waste a human effigy, and not only that you have to fight like 3 npcs gank squad style in a tiny cave just to fight the darklurker. no thanks
I just realized do people try to get to queelag without tanking poison ? lol
All four Lord Souls in DS1 have some of the longest backtracking wow
Its kinda weird to see these videos, since I play the scholar version on the ps3, which has almost all aspects of vanilla pc version, thus not having a lot of the things I'd like to have
Now I remember, what I was doing in ds1 for 150hrs.
And then I'm watching this😂
Good thing Demons Souls wasn’t in this
very cool
3:31 - The Pinwheel runback here is just for the remastered version, since they added that bonfire with the remaster. In the original game you had a much longer runback.
Edit: 18:45 - woops