Is This the Stranglers Unidentified Masterpiece?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- The Men in Black an experimental concept album which investigates the dark characters known as the men in black seeking to silence UFO eye witness accounts and the question of religion and the links between.
An underrated Masterpiece from the band that is broken down track by track.
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Defo invokes opinion but it was ahead of its time, it sounds incredibly contemporary even now. It was the Stranglers pushing the envelope. Massively underrated in my opinion.
Agreed Simon has got better with age cheers
Why do you write "defo" instead of definitely?
@@papat7435 its an abbreviation pal
@@simonbarber2098 I know it is. I just wanted to know why you bother. It's only six more letters to type.
And your comment that the album "sounds incredibly contemporary even now" makes no sense at all. How could it sound contemporary to music when it was released AND contemporary to today's music?
@@papat7435Bother in doing comments or slang abbreviations? So you never shorten any words? Using it's is obviously acceptable to you. Is it just defo you have a problem with? I'll decide how I spell my comments thanks. It does not make my comment any less valid. Who are you the spelling Police?
I remember when this was released all my Stranglers mates thought they had gone mad. The funny and the great irony is this was the worst selling Stranglers album but because EMI had just bought their record company United Artists so EMI gave them all this money as they had previously sold thousands of albums but what they didn't know was what the band were going to do which was travel around Europe recording each song at the most high tech studios in Europe. Musikland in Munich was one as was John Lennons old home where the video for imagine was filmed which Ringo starr had built a studio in, I know turn, the centuries turn was recorded there, thrown away was recorded at musikland but the money spent on what was essentially a uncommercial concept album was sheer lunacy at the time. Two suspots was actually kept back from the raven sessions as it was originally going to be a single in mid 1979 but was scrapped, so they decided to reincarnate it on this album. EMI were furious and sad the next album better be successful or we're terminating your recording contract, so they recorded la folie and it didn't sell well BUT some DJs had heard Golden Brown and loved it so EMI released it as a single and it got to number 2 and the album flew up the charts as well, the irony of this outcome was that the musical score for golden brown was done by dave Greenfield during the meninblack sessions but Hugh said we can't use that put it away somewhere we might use it for something else. So come the la folie sessions JJ and Hugh were pissed off with Dave and Jet and said we're off to the pub we want you two to come up with something by the time we come back, when they came back Dave played the musical score from the meninblack sessions but had tweaked it and was the music for golden brown, hugh loved it went off wrote the lyrics in about 30 minutes came back and recorded it and basically secured the bands financiall future for the next 8 years as CBS signed them after the golden brown success. Incredible story.. The other thing is that JJ doesn't play bass on this song, the bass notes are played by Dave on the keyboard.
Awesome insight Marc thanks so much for sharing
My favourite Stranglers album, love it.
it's a beauty
I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a masterpiece. But it's good to very good weird and interesting pop and it should have been hailed as so when it was released. Instead, it was savaged by critics. Morons...
I personally love it.
The critics were off the pace agreed its aged well in the catalog for sure
Hallow to our Men...
One of the best opening riffs ive heard but totally destroyed by the rest of the track 😂
Rattus is still my favourite album Raven is a close second.
Agree great albums
Its my fav, hands down
Personally I was disappointed with this album at the time, Some good songs though such as Hallow to our men and Four Horseman, waiting for the meninblack, second coming, but it could have been better, some of the songs felt a bit frivolous such as JLNOE, Thrown away, Two sunspots, turn the centuries turn just did'nt fit right for me.
Well said it's gone well under the radar due to the other brilliant albums they recorded at that time.
When I bought the album in 1980 I didn't really know what to think, other than this was something that needed listening to over and over. The pre-digital production is unbelievable. I recall a critic at the time without a hint of irony bemoaning the fact that Dave's playing on Second Coming was out of tune! They had no idea how hard that was to do - yet alone replicate live. What a band.
Great points John it needs repeat listens for sure
My friend he was the Raven...
"Song by song" is well worth a read.
Yes, that book really helps understand how the track came to be. I used to play each album as I slowly read each chapter.
No the Stranglers masterpiece is the Raven , they were at their peek at that point .
Yeah ' the Raven ' seems to be liked by all ( even Sounds music mag gave it 5 stars !) & though it doesn't have many stand out individual songs they all seem to fit together & make it real listening experience.
Sorry, it's Black and White
@@jabberthebut mmmm but which one has the worst track though: 'Black & White' - 'Do you Wanna ' or 'The Raven' - 'Meninblack' ....?
@@jabberthebut also I think 'the Raven' wins the ' better cover ' vote ( anyways Harry turned up ,i thought mine was in 3-D ....but according to 'Discogs' it was actually a 'Len Tickular' sleeve )....
But i still don't know why Dave's got a Mutant hand on B & Ws cover...i mean really, it's bigger than his head .
& they could have taken a photo of Hugh before he had helped himself to the daily delivery of Persian Brown .
@@andchat6241 "Meninblack" is a great track! Don't think I could really call between the two albums; which I consider the better largely depends on my mood at the time or which one I'm currently listening to/listened to last.
Their best album by a country mile, in my opinion. Alas, I never saw them live when Hugh was a strangler.
Cheers Paul
I was a huge fan back in the day and had all the albums right up to Dreamtime which I didn't like much and I lost interest and drifted away from the Stranglers after that, especially once Hugh left. Nowadays I'm really just a fan of their first three albums. They have a very distinct sound and style and a raw energy I still love. Raven is Ok I guess but has a very different style and to me Men in Black is a terrible album. It feels like they lost their way and I'm not sure what they were trying to achieve. I certainly can't relate to it apart from nostalgia value. Thrown Away and Hallow to Our Men are the only half decent tracks. The rest is silly and unlistenable to me.
It's devicive in that way not everyone's cup of tea thanks for sharing
really, really enjoyed your comments on this LP. I wish the band would go out on tour and perform this LP in its entirety, with special effects.
Once again really enjoyed this post.
Thanks Gary appreciate the comment yeah you could have a really spacey light show would be epic
No..... You can't do it without Jet & Dave, even Hugh for that matter. With only JJ left from original line up they are no more than a tribute band now. Let it lie, it wouldn't be the same now.
@@garybridge-ku7bf because of the lack of Stranglers , definitely no live show . - in mid '80s the London Planetarium used to do 'laser shows ' one for Pink Floyd, one for Led Zep - that would be a way for the lp , but you need complete dark - not easy nowadays with mobile phone cameras .
@@stephenbennett1643 Nothing more to add to that, really; well said!
Two Sunspots is a brilliant song, probably one of the most underrated Stranglers songs ever. I absolutely love The Stranglers I've seen them six times with my dad who is a big fan, five before Dave died of COVID. All at Birmingham O2 Institute. The song reminds me a bit of "Could Have Been Me" by The Struts. I really like The Stranglers because they are underrated, they are secretly influential on artists such as Franny Griffiths of Space, Jarvis Cocker of Pulp, and many more.
Great comment thanks for sharing
@@binnieb20 mmmm what does 'secretly influential ' mean . & how do you decide they are 'underrated ' ? & by who ? e.g. I loved the Clash lp 'SANDINISTA!' , but most fans didn't- doesn't mean it's 'Underrated' unless those that didn't like it are 'wrong' and my view is 'Right. '....
Most of the Stranglers singles & lps sold well & they were often given TV exposure. They were always touring & usually selling out .
Can't see Jarvis Cocker covering 'bring on the nubiles' though ....
Weirdest and best Stranglers album.
Nice one Johnny
Just like nothing I've heard.
Clever Rudy cheers
It’s a very underrated piece of music, even though it’s experimental, it’s the band still expanding to the point where they lost some fans and were forced to make a hit single. But then again Golden Brown would probably not exist if the Meninblack hadn’t been released.
Such a good point regarding Golden Brown cheers
I would have thought that there a quite large contingent amongst Stranglers fans who were no more fans of "Golden Brown" than they were the "Meninblack" collection of songs. It was receiving A LOT of airplay on BBC Radio 2; which was a station that was most definitely not playing "Nice n sleazy", "No more heroes" or even "Don't bring Harry.
This was actually the only Stranglers album I ever bought (on cassette actually).
I can't honestly say why I bought it.
Perhaps it was the interesting cover art. Possibly it was the need to keep up with my mates who were discovering a lot of new-wave/post-punk groups.
We were all university students at the time.
Listening to it now, it still sounds weird and not at all easy to get into.
I remember it coming out - man, I was gutted at how bad it was compared to Raven.
@@Unfunny_Username_389 yeah I was disappointed as well , & I think it started a string of weaker lps that followed .
When I bought the album in 1980 I didn't really know what to think, other than this was something that needed listening to over and over. The pre-digital production is unbelievable. I recall a critic at the time without a hint of irony bemoaning the fact that Dave's playing on Second Coming was out of tune! They had no idea how hard that was to do - yet alone replicate live. What a band. 8:24
It’s a pity that they didn’t do it as a double album and shoved some more chart material on it. They could have had the best of both worlds
Totally agree Phil
All albums until “10” are different, but still Stranglers. They seem to have an “upgrade” from album to album… like discovering new worlds, new ways of express themselves. Even vocal expresion went from In The Shadows to whisper on Raven, then insinuant on Feline… wow! Totally different than Ac/Dc let’s say, which are same, same on all albums. Very good but the same. Stranglers went deeper and deeper with every new album. It means they evolved from album to the next album. That’s why I adore this band.
So true Mike couldn't agree more
I'm not keen on the lp ( & a non-believer in the Alien Visitations concept ) ...but genuinely surprised 'Thrown Away ' didn't do much better in the charts ....
I think it was ahead of it time cheers
Great album, so ahead of the curve, almost techno/electro - trance-like at times. Can you believe they were only a few years on from Peaches!? The band certainly kept changing over the years!
They so did evolve and were courageous in their stylistic changes appreciate the comment.
Great breakdown! And, it's great to read all the different opinions … The Stranglers were always good for starting a discussion! They loved trying all angles musically.... and socially... never a dull moment! Credit to JJ for keeping them strong! ….RIP Dave and Jet, of course!
Cheers thanks for the support it's a great discussion point is the Stranglers on so many levels
Been a fan since a little girl, the raven being my fave album. I am most definitely a woman in black 🖤
Awesome Janice I'm with you on the Raven did a video on that as well.
Cheers
‘I’m not reading this…’
I always regard The Raven as their masterpiece, but this isn't far behind.
I agree they are both incredibly experimental and layered cheers
Oh damn, that gatefold is awesome! A shame we didn't get that with the US release.
Its awesome art cheers
It's like marmite this album. You either hate it or love it.
Personally, I think it's a work of genius, years ahead of it's time. The X-Files covered all the subject matter later and was lauded the world over.
Just brilliant. It hangs together. Not perfect but not far off.
So true Duncan well said
@@duncanpoundcake I never really get that 'marmite ' thing - its not 'Metal Machine Music ' by Lou Reed or Skip Spence 'Oar' !....its just another Stranglers lp , on the verge of changing into their Roxy Music time (knowing they can't reproduce their 'classic era' ,but can still do it on stage) like 'la Folie' , 'Aural Sculpture ' , 'Dreamtime' most would say its got some good & some not so good tracks ....
Not as accessable as their earlier works and was so experimental it kind of got overlooked. Has held up well with age and was well ahead of its time. I like it fine especially when I'm in an altered state!
Absolutely and yep works best when the mind is open
@@tago69mago671 went top 8 but did not sell on..didnt spend long in the chart think a matter of days rather than weeks....
Gospel
No. I listened to it a few times recently but it doesn't match up to the first 4 which are incredible.
It's an impressive run of albums no question
@@Rockstardust69 And continues right through to "La Folie" and "Feline" in my opinion.
I love Feline
So do I cheers
I've always loved The Gospel According To The Meninblack, then as now. It's an album that's unfairly misunderstood, perhaps because the Stranglers have partly changed their sound on this one, yet this 'technological' facade is just an illusion, as the overall sound isn't all that synthetic and altered, as you can hear the guitar very clearly and the sound on the drums isn't doctored on every track. If there is a change, it comes from the mix, which puts Burnel's bass much further back than usual (with the exception of "Just Like Nothing On Earth", in which the four-string is brought to the fore). For me, The Gospel According To The Meninblack is one of the Stranglers' must-haves, right up there with Rattus Norvegicus, No More Heroes, Black And White, The Raven and La folie. It's from Feline onwards that things start to go wrong, but that's another story!😉
Thanks for sharing outstanding comment cheers
@@Rockstardust69 Thanks for your kind words, Cheers!👍
I'd take "Feline" over "No more heroes" but appreciate that that's probably an unpopular opinion.
@@MisAnnThorpe I've never liked Feline, either for its synthetic sounds mixed with acoustic guitar or for its flabby songs, with the exception of "All Roads Lead to Rome", which is the only track I really like on the album.
@@MisAnnThorpe Feline is very cool more to come on that album
It is not easy listening for sure but very experimental and unique cheers
My favourite Stranglers album. Headphones required.
Yeah makes a big difference cheers
Alot of people don't like the Men in black Album, but l think it was the 5th one of the early best albums by the Stranglers after that l went off the Stranglers
It was different from the previous 4 but still a great album . You picked the wrong time to go off them " LA Folie " was a a great follow !
Loved it when I first heard it love it still as cornwell says fantastic sounds with earphones wacky weird and wonderful
Awesome Edward