I have (3) DNF’s at the Leadville 100. Two of them led to surgery. I am back this year feeling healthy and ready to finish! I hope to meet you tomorrow at the Athlete meeting!
Good luck this year 👊! I’m still trying to get in through the lottery. Been trying the lottery every year since 2018. Maybe one year I will get good news
Good luck - I'll see you on the course too! I might need to skip athlete meeting because of work (and ok ok, answering comments here). But I'll be volunteering at race check-in - probably check-in desk (they had some glitch, so unclear what my shift is) or somewhere at race expo
@@Runnin2Live Word in the street is that it's almost impossible this way. Or, I don't know. It's odd. I know folks that have gotten in like 7 years in a row, but most not getting in 7 years in a row. Alternate ways to get in is the only way I got in myself (fund raising or volunteering)
Oopsies, I was a bit of a potty mouth while recording this one...! Anyhow - I hope it's helpful. Feel free to share your story - how did you deal with a DNF, and how did you make the most of it?
From my point of view, you used a topic-appropriate language. Your approach turned a view of a very difficult situation into a hopeful one. There's just one caveat. One needs to do many races. With one race a year, the failure can linger. So my tip would be, sign up for another race very soon after DNF (if it was not an injury-related one).
I have two DNFs in the same race. However, I will return for the third time and overcome that race. The first time, I was not prepared; the second time, the weather played a significant role, and I got frozen, so I had to quit as I couldn’t feel my hands, even though I was in excellent physical shape at half of 105 km. Thanks to you Simon, I will return. Thank you so much.
Our friend coach Brian did something similar - a 'redemption' arc. But he came back years later, maybe 5-10 years. He was a totally different runner by then of course - more mature, more experienced, and more driven. Finishing these races was a 'must' - so he lined up those 4 last year, and finished! And not easy ones - Bighorn, Ouray, Leadville and Run Rabbit Run!
Excellent point Simon! "Just because you failed your goal, you're not a failure". I have my first 50 miler in 3 weeks, and battled through injuries. I'm definitely undertrained, but will push through and plan on finishing. If not, and I make it pass the 50k mark I look at it as a positive, making it the furthest I've been and will work from there
Saw you at leadville ,i was the dude with the purple sunglasses. I finished my first 100 woohooo! Thanks for your videos and tips bro. I had a rough last 40 miles but my crew and pacers helped out a ton!
Best video on DNF, ive come across. Thank you, Simon. Yesterday was my goal race for the year Squamish 50 miles. Every aid station has a cut off. I managed 30 miles but then I missed cut off by few mins. The course was super gnarly. I was proud of myself , but today am going thru all the emotions you just mentioned as I worked very hard for this race. Like you said, making a post race report and problem solving is very important, and I am doing that. You are not only sharing your thoughts but showing empathy for runners who dnfd. Thank you
Another great video, thank you. After my DNF many of my friends (who run, but not generally ultras) kept telling me how well I'd done to get to 44 miles on my first attempt at doing 100km. I found this very frustrating, as while yes 44 miles is great if that's what you set out to do, it's not great if it's a DNF. As you say, it's a failure. It's not the end of the world, but to me understanding it's a failure will help me improve, so I'm meeting an experienced ultra runner who's a coach tomorrow, so hopefully I can learn, improve and not DNF the next one.
I was not sure what to expect given your record of success, but this was outstanding! Regarding your question, when my daughter fails at a weightlifting goal, I go back through her training log and specifically point out the unbelievable performances she had along the way in her daily preparation.
Never had a DNF but during a winter climb on Mt Washington the guides decided to stop mid way. Needless to say it put such a fire under my @ss that I spent the next few months in preparation for a "rematch" and this time went with a single guide instead of a group. Nobody climbed that day except us and the feeling of accomplishment was so high that I was happy that I had the chance to do the climb 2 times :)
I didn't realize they had guides for Washington - probably smart. But that mountain is no joke on a bad day in winter! I heard it's one of the deadliest mountain in the US despite (relatively) low altitude. The year we did it, 1 week prior we attempted Adams and Jefferson with a friend (it's the mountains right next to Washington on the presidential ridge) - a girl maybe 10-20lbs lighter than me. And that made all the difference. The wind gust would swipe her to her feet regularly, then it's sheet of ice - but at least it was more boulder-y than Washington. Happened to me too a few times but not nearly as bad. Self-arrest with ice axe. Eventually we just turned around. Back home, I heard someone had died on Washington that day, and I was not so surprised. That wind was hardcore, and even with a strong self arrest game, you'll miss once on that type of thin ice/rocky features. Week after I did it with Nora. Wind was not nearly as bad, but the sheets of ice were bad, and definitely a slide all the way down would be fatal. I didn't/don't know if that's exactly where it happened but could have - and that I knew. I was experienced enough to see danger, but not mature enough to turn back. I also didn't have the best equipment (I gave some of my stuff to nora), so the grip on ice would often break. I had to self arrested a LOT of times, with a few times where the first hit bounced...you pick up speed FAST and not sure a third hit would have done much. I was all bruised and purple on my side after that adventure. 100% don't recommend...I've learned and grown a lot since. Never again on such condition - I'm much more careful in the mountains.
This is SO awesome/ funny!! I had the same experience... my first time up WA was in a big group during typical crap winter weather. We turned around just above treeline , when sh!t got real. The second time I went with the same friend/ guide and one other person. Despite even worse weather, and a panic attack from the other person, we summited, the only people to do so that day. I've been up over 12 times since, day and night, in all weather, "guiding " friends up Huntingdon too. Love that mountain (off season. )
Fantastic video. I've accepted that DNFs will be a (larger than ideal) part of my ultra adventures. I simply don't have the time/ resources to train and race to my best ability. My first DNF was at the Jay Peak 50k, the toughest 50k on the east coast. I didn't take the elevation/steepness seriously in training, and my legs were in the worst pain by 18 miles. I wasn't willing to start the third lap, knowing there was a big chance I'd have to take the lift down once I'd struggled to the top of the mountain again, due to cutoffs. I'm headed back in 2 weeks... but I've been sick with covid and a piggyback infection for the last 2 weeks! We'll see how it goes. 😅 Funny enough, what gave me the courage to try again was a DNF for my first 100k. I got 45 miles, dealing with the same severe leg pain... that just disappeared at mile 40! I'd never gone long enough to realize issues can resolve themselves DURING a race! I'd seen it in your videos, but never experienced it myself! Good luck at Leadville!!!
@@runningwithsimonI DNFd. 😂😂 They tightened the cutoff, so I finished the 2nd loop stronger than the first, had NO pain, and was ready to set out for loop 3, when they told me I'd missed cutoff. 😂
A little out there, but analogy incoming.. Consider the lioness hunting her prey, she is fit, she is foccussed and she knows her trade and yet she will not always succeed... She doesn't sulk or cry, she regroups and she tries again untill she finds success.... This was the talk I gave myself when I ran at way under my goal expectation a few months ago x
Last September, first 50 miler. I was with a friend and we were rushy and careless. I lost a flask! ok, no big deal, drink less on a very hot day. What is that itchiness on my shoe? possibly a little stone (blister forming) We are not really runners, just long distance hikers but ¡lets run the downhills!... By mile 24 everything was falling apart and blisters got so gross that led to improper footing until feet felt like they were breaking down (they were breaking down). DNF at kilometer 63. Since then, I've run about 10 50ks, and I've never gotten those problems again. DNF led me to buy proper shoes (no more of those stiff hiking shoes) proper socks and to start following a consistent training plan. In 2 weeks I have another 50 miler and even if I'm in fear, I know the prior errors won't be repeated. And... I think this DNF helped me to understand the size of bigger races.
I've had a race director say that DNF mean "Did Nothing Fatal." As in, you worked hard and it didn't work out, but you can come back and do it again. Go out and crush it!
I have 3 DNFs and all were at the hundred mile distance. I learned a ton about myself during all 3 of them and wouldn’t trade the experience for anything.
Exactly. I don't wish anyone a DNF - like now we're lining up soon for Leadville. And I'd love to see 100% finish rate. But that's not realistic. Next best thing is for people to stay healthy, and grow from it.
Have you or your community known anyone who has come back to race Ultras after having Meniscus tares in both knees? Meaning, after surgery, they have come back to race Ultras.
I know of people that have come back after knee surgery - that sounded like meniscus tear, but not 100% if this was the diagnostic - racing 100 miler. I suppose it's always case by case. Hope you get better soon...
I have a broken acl and double teared meniscus on the right knee. I started running after injruy and my condition just kept getting better to the point wjere I forgot about getting surgery. But all tears are different (and I don't do crazy fast downhills with lots of jumps and suddent changes)
That's what I try to do myself, but problem solved only once the emotions aren't as raw... It was tough for Nora when she had her DNF, but she came back and did great this year!
This wasn’t a race DNF but I had a training run that was only supposed to be 13 miles. This should have been easy since I usually do 17 for my long run but I was sick and my sleep the night prior to was awful. I ended up quitting at mile 10. I hated to quit early but I honestly think it was for the best. It was very hot and I was having trouble drinking anything. Plus feeling like I was going to throw up and having diarrhea. I think the biggest thing that gets in my head is what if I start to always quit and fall short of my goal? But honestly that’s a bit ridiculous to think that.
I understand the feeling. For me that feeling is more associated to hiking/mountaineering - like in the high mountains on technical routes. I'm much more likely today to say "oh looks like it's rainy...might be safer to turn around". I used to push no matter what, but a few near-miss (and being older) made me change my outlook on it. Wilderness can be super unforgiving - and that slanted rock once wet is a huge hazard. It's just one rock or one rock face. But you only need to lose your grip once and you're game over. Same with thunder - unlikely to hit you, but at 14k, you can't quickly get off the ridge sometimes. So now, it's not uncommon to turn around. And sometimes once you are back at the car, you can see that "oh that was just a 10min shower... I could have done it" Ultimately, we do all of these for fun and adventure. And we draw the line as to what that means.
Not entirely sure which clip you are thinking of. It's a lot of different race - if you tell me the time stamp happy to let you know. A wild guess would be HURT 100 (Hawaii, it's in the jungle)
I have (3) DNF’s at the Leadville 100. Two of them led to surgery. I am back this year feeling healthy and ready to finish! I hope to meet you tomorrow at the Athlete meeting!
Good luck this year 👊! I’m still trying to get in through the lottery. Been trying the lottery every year since 2018. Maybe one year I will get good news
Good luck - I'll see you on the course too! I might need to skip athlete meeting because of work (and ok ok, answering comments here). But I'll be volunteering at race check-in - probably check-in desk (they had some glitch, so unclear what my shift is) or somewhere at race expo
@@Runnin2Live Word in the street is that it's almost impossible this way. Or, I don't know. It's odd. I know folks that have gotten in like 7 years in a row, but most not getting in 7 years in a row. Alternate ways to get in is the only way I got in myself (fund raising or volunteering)
Good luck!! I usually watch the livestream through the weekend, I'll look for your name and cheer you on! You've got this, it's your race!
@@Kelly_Ben Was there as live stream?! I didn't even know-...ooops
Oopsies, I was a bit of a potty mouth while recording this one...!
Anyhow - I hope it's helpful. Feel free to share your story - how did you deal with a DNF, and how did you make the most of it?
From my point of view, you used a topic-appropriate language. Your approach turned a view of a very difficult situation into a hopeful one. There's just one caveat. One needs to do many races. With one race a year, the failure can linger. So my tip would be, sign up for another race very soon after DNF (if it was not an injury-related one).
S***s is not a swear word! 😅
@@iterato1 how do you even know what I said despite the beep!
@@nataliamartinkova That's a very good point - otherwise yes you'll have self doubt for a while!
I have two DNFs in the same race. However, I will return for the third time and overcome that race. The first time, I was not prepared; the second time, the weather played a significant role, and I got frozen, so I had to quit as I couldn’t feel my hands, even though I was in excellent physical shape at half of 105 km. Thanks to you Simon, I will return. Thank you so much.
Our friend coach Brian did something similar - a 'redemption' arc. But he came back years later, maybe 5-10 years. He was a totally different runner by then of course - more mature, more experienced, and more driven. Finishing these races was a 'must' - so he lined up those 4 last year, and finished! And not easy ones - Bighorn, Ouray, Leadville and Run Rabbit Run!
Excellent point Simon! "Just because you failed your goal, you're not a failure". I have my first 50 miler in 3 weeks, and battled through injuries. I'm definitely undertrained, but will push through and plan on finishing. If not, and I make it pass the 50k mark I look at it as a positive, making it the furthest I've been and will work from there
That's the right mindset! Good luck on your race, let me know how it goes!
Saw you at leadville ,i was the dude with the purple sunglasses. I finished my first 100 woohooo! Thanks for your videos and tips bro. I had a rough last 40 miles but my crew and pacers helped out a ton!
Congratulations!!
I think everyone had a rough last 40 haha
Best video on DNF, ive come across. Thank you, Simon. Yesterday was my goal race for the year Squamish 50 miles. Every aid station has a cut off. I managed 30 miles but then I missed cut off by few mins. The course was super gnarly. I was proud of myself , but today am going thru all the emotions you just mentioned as I worked very hard for this race. Like you said, making a post race report and problem solving is very important, and I am doing that.
You are not only sharing your thoughts but showing empathy for runners who dnfd. Thank you
Always a bummer…!
Hey I may have seen you on the course, I did the Squamish 50 mile and it was brutal to say the least!
I hope you'll be back for another try !!!
Another great video, thank you. After my DNF many of my friends (who run, but not generally ultras) kept telling me how well I'd done to get to 44 miles on my first attempt at doing 100km. I found this very frustrating, as while yes 44 miles is great if that's what you set out to do, it's not great if it's a DNF. As you say, it's a failure. It's not the end of the world, but to me understanding it's a failure will help me improve, so I'm meeting an experienced ultra runner who's a coach tomorrow, so hopefully I can learn, improve and not DNF the next one.
Exactly DNF is not the end of the story!
Haha the the sentences "bleed out of your ass" rolls off your tongue so naturally it's billiant. Keep up the honest vids 👌 👍
I need to have t-shirt saying this...or white undies!
I was not sure what to expect given your record of success, but this was outstanding! Regarding your question, when my daughter fails at a weightlifting goal, I go back through her training log and specifically point out the unbelievable performances she had along the way in her daily preparation.
Thank :)
Smart about your daughter, I like that!
Never had a DNF but during a winter climb on Mt Washington the guides decided to stop mid way. Needless to say it put such a fire under my @ss that I spent the next few months in preparation for a "rematch" and this time went with a single guide instead of a group. Nobody climbed that day except us and the feeling of accomplishment was so high that I was happy that I had the chance to do the climb 2 times :)
I didn't realize they had guides for Washington - probably smart. But that mountain is no joke on a bad day in winter! I heard it's one of the deadliest mountain in the US despite (relatively) low altitude. The year we did it, 1 week prior we attempted Adams and Jefferson with a friend (it's the mountains right next to Washington on the presidential ridge) - a girl maybe 10-20lbs lighter than me. And that made all the difference. The wind gust would swipe her to her feet regularly, then it's sheet of ice - but at least it was more boulder-y than Washington. Happened to me too a few times but not nearly as bad. Self-arrest with ice axe. Eventually we just turned around. Back home, I heard someone had died on Washington that day, and I was not so surprised. That wind was hardcore, and even with a strong self arrest game, you'll miss once on that type of thin ice/rocky features.
Week after I did it with Nora. Wind was not nearly as bad, but the sheets of ice were bad, and definitely a slide all the way down would be fatal. I didn't/don't know if that's exactly where it happened but could have - and that I knew. I was experienced enough to see danger, but not mature enough to turn back. I also didn't have the best equipment (I gave some of my stuff to nora), so the grip on ice would often break. I had to self arrested a LOT of times, with a few times where the first hit bounced...you pick up speed FAST and not sure a third hit would have done much. I was all bruised and purple on my side after that adventure. 100% don't recommend...I've learned and grown a lot since. Never again on such condition - I'm much more careful in the mountains.
This is SO awesome/ funny!! I had the same experience... my first time up WA was in a big group during typical crap winter weather. We turned around just above treeline , when sh!t got real. The second time I went with the same friend/ guide and one other person. Despite even worse weather, and a panic attack from the other person, we summited, the only people to do so that day. I've been up over 12 times since, day and night, in all weather, "guiding " friends up Huntingdon too. Love that mountain (off season. )
Fantastic video. I've accepted that DNFs will be a (larger than ideal) part of my ultra adventures. I simply don't have the time/ resources to train and race to my best ability.
My first DNF was at the Jay Peak 50k, the toughest 50k on the east coast. I didn't take the elevation/steepness seriously in training, and my legs were in the worst pain by 18 miles. I wasn't willing to start the third lap, knowing there was a big chance I'd have to take the lift down once I'd struggled to the top of the mountain again, due to cutoffs. I'm headed back in 2 weeks... but I've been sick with covid and a piggyback infection for the last 2 weeks! We'll see how it goes. 😅
Funny enough, what gave me the courage to try again was a DNF for my first 100k. I got 45 miles, dealing with the same severe leg pain... that just disappeared at mile 40! I'd never gone long enough to realize issues can resolve themselves DURING a race! I'd seen it in your videos, but never experienced it myself!
Good luck at Leadville!!!
Thanks! Leadville is always scary for me. Let’s see how it goes
And thanks for sharing - rooting for you in 2 weeks!
@@runningwithsimonI DNFd. 😂😂 They tightened the cutoff, so I finished the 2nd loop stronger than the first, had NO pain, and was ready to set out for loop 3, when they told me I'd missed cutoff. 😂
I DNF in 2022, now making a comeback to that same race in less than 60 days
Good luck!
A little out there, but analogy incoming.. Consider the lioness hunting her prey, she is fit, she is foccussed and she knows her trade and yet she will not always succeed... She doesn't sulk or cry, she regroups and she tries again untill she finds success.... This was the talk I gave myself when I ran at way under my goal expectation a few months ago x
I like the imagery
Last September, first 50 miler. I was with a friend and we were rushy and careless. I lost a flask! ok, no big deal, drink less on a very hot day. What is that itchiness on my shoe? possibly a little stone (blister forming) We are not really runners, just long distance hikers but ¡lets run the downhills!... By mile 24 everything was falling apart and blisters got so gross that led to improper footing until feet felt like they were breaking down (they were breaking down). DNF at kilometer 63.
Since then, I've run about 10 50ks, and I've never gotten those problems again. DNF led me to buy proper shoes (no more of those stiff hiking shoes) proper socks and to start following a consistent training plan. In 2 weeks I have another 50 miler and even if I'm in fear, I know the prior errors won't be repeated.
And... I think this DNF helped me to understand the size of bigger races.
Ouch losing one of your flask isn't ideal!...
Awesome video!
Thanks! I hope it's helpful!
I've had a race director say that DNF mean "Did Nothing Fatal." As in, you worked hard and it didn't work out, but you can come back and do it again. Go out and crush it!
That's a healthy take on it for sure!
I have 3 DNFs and all were at the hundred mile distance. I learned a ton about myself during all 3 of them and wouldn’t trade the experience for anything.
Exactly. I don't wish anyone a DNF - like now we're lining up soon for Leadville. And I'd love to see 100% finish rate. But that's not realistic. Next best thing is for people to stay healthy, and grow from it.
Thank you 🙏
You’re welcome 😊
My first 100 was my first DNF.
Sorry to hear this - hopefully you can look back and grow from this
Have you or your community known anyone who has come back to race Ultras after having Meniscus tares in both knees? Meaning, after surgery, they have come back to race Ultras.
I know of people that have come back after knee surgery - that sounded like meniscus tear, but not 100% if this was the diagnostic - racing 100 miler. I suppose it's always case by case. Hope you get better soon...
I have a broken acl and double teared meniscus on the right knee. I started running after injruy and my condition just kept getting better to the point wjere I forgot about getting surgery. But all tears are different (and I don't do crazy fast downhills with lots of jumps and suddent changes)
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For me, if I DNF, what would help me would problem solving but also encouragement that going forward I can work through the issue and finish
That's what I try to do myself, but problem solved only once the emotions aren't as raw... It was tough for Nora when she had her DNF, but she came back and did great this year!
@@runningwithsimon that’s great! Go Nora!!!
This wasn’t a race DNF but I had a training run that was only supposed to be 13 miles. This should have been easy since I usually do 17 for my long run but I was sick and my sleep the night prior to was awful. I ended up quitting at mile 10. I hated to quit early but I honestly think it was for the best. It was very hot and I was having trouble drinking anything. Plus feeling like I was going to throw up and having diarrhea. I think the biggest thing that gets in my head is what if I start to always quit and fall short of my goal? But honestly that’s a bit ridiculous to think that.
I understand the feeling. For me that feeling is more associated to hiking/mountaineering - like in the high mountains on technical routes. I'm much more likely today to say "oh looks like it's rainy...might be safer to turn around". I used to push no matter what, but a few near-miss (and being older) made me change my outlook on it. Wilderness can be super unforgiving - and that slanted rock once wet is a huge hazard. It's just one rock or one rock face. But you only need to lose your grip once and you're game over. Same with thunder - unlikely to hit you, but at 14k, you can't quickly get off the ridge sometimes. So now, it's not uncommon to turn around. And sometimes once you are back at the car, you can see that "oh that was just a 10min shower... I could have done it"
Ultimately, we do all of these for fun and adventure. And we draw the line as to what that means.
@@runningwithsimon better to live to run another day for sure
What ultra was the pretty/lush looking one in the vid?
Not entirely sure which clip you are thinking of. It's a lot of different race - if you tell me the time stamp happy to let you know. A wild guess would be HURT 100 (Hawaii, it's in the jungle)