As an embedded controls engineer working on these things day in and day out and also an enthusiast, while I knew much of the material I am still impressed by the presentation and clear articulation. Explaining is not the same as knowing, good job Jason!
this AWD system seems really cool. I was wondering how the system deals with rapid change in friction coefficient? Is the system able to poll the friction coefficient and adjust torque to the wheel at a high rate?
The power control system is basically an ABS that controls power input rather than brake friction. This anti wheel slip should be just as quick operating as any ABS
@@EngineeringExplained it's said that EVs make a lot of torque. But when you calculate how much a regular, let's say, Jeep Wrangler makes, especially when counting both the crawl ratio and torque converter slippage torque multiplication, the Jeep wins. From RUclips videos I know that these EV trucks perdorm well offroad. How's that possible? Does Jeep have more torque than it can possibly handle?
As both an on-road and off-road enthusiast I have been waiting to see this done for a very long time, and Rivian has done way more with it than I imagined possible. The only drawback is the same as going from a manual gas car to EV, the lack of levers and switches (lockers) to play with ;)
Actually there is a noticeable delay (that has been reported by actual Rivian enthusiasts) in the way that Rivian controls the output electronically, which is a true drawback...
it would be nice if its hybrid. like the chevy volt. run either full on gas or ev. sometimes you just need gas for safety. you run out of battery and youre stuck somewhere in the jungle
@@Combatants1 he meant that just like driving a stick which you enjoy the car more than automatic. The same from off road trucks that you want to switch the locker on or off. I can relate this as I sometime leave the locker off and see how much traction is then locked it and see the difference.
@@Combatants1 I prefer to see how far I can take my truck than see how far my truck can take me. As much as I would marvel at the engineering when driving an R1T around, I also enjoy having to make choices between gears, 2WD and 4WD, and which locker to engage.
This is such a good video. Holy crap. I’ve always liked you videos, but this one… wow. Very well done. Everything flowed so well, you explained things in a way which would make sense to everyone, and you explained a huge amount of detail without it feeling overwhelming, all somehow within a 13 minute video. Nice freaking job dude.
This channel is outstanding. I loved the really good explanations and footage. I learned a heck of a lot, more than I expected to learn. Another insanely entertaining and HILARIOUS channel is "FortNine." Look up his channel and be prepared to laugh out loud, his videos are maybe the best vehicle videos on the internet, despite it being a motorcycle channel, he talks about engineering and engines, and physics, and it's super interesting.
I can also see an opportunity to implement an un-stuck mode, where the wheels could rock the car back/forth using onboard sensors automatically. Also if they were enabled to communicate over wifi/bluetooth, the lead car of a convoy could communicate wheel slip/ground conditions to those following.
That's some serious thinking outside the box man. If you're young, do something great with your mind bc the majority of the world would never have even thought of something like that
Great video! As EVs continue to demonstrate what’s possible, it’s becoming more apparent to me how so much cool automotive technology of the past century was developed to overcome inherent limitations of IC engines. Transmissions are the biggest, but this shows that entire drivetrains have also been compromises. They don’t do what you really want, because what you really want isn’t possible with IC engines. Someday we’re going to wonder how IC powertrains hung on as long as they did.
Biggest problems of EVs is the electric grid. Even without many EVs, the North American power grids have been struggling to keep up with demand. EVs will double that.
ICE are severely compromised, in that they are very complex mechanically, require a very complex transmission, to overcome uneven power delivery across the RPM spectrum and are only 33% efficient. They also require a lot of maintenance. Electric motors have full torque from zero RPM, are very simple mechanically, and are very efficient. Once you drive an electric for a while, you become dissatisfied with the lazy throttle response that accompanies ICE engines with multi-speed transmissions.
@@iunnox666 If everyone isnt buying 7500 lb Rivians and Lightnings and Silverado EV's with 130+ kwh batteries, its not that huge of a deal. I drove my Chevy bolt 3500 miles in 3 months just using the 120V/12A level 1 charger that came with it. Just dont get home and set you level 2 charger to 50A when you have 12 hours before you need to go somewhere again and could charge at 10A But of course, what would anyone ever do without a full size truck to head to Wholefoods in.
@@carljaekle Yes, but particularly in the truck realm, ICE still has one massive advantage over BEV, and thats range under load. Even the 212 kwh Silverado EV only has 2/3 of the range of my regular old gas F150 towing a trailer. And then once you've depleted that massive 212 kwh battery, and you can't find a 200+ kW capable charger, you get to sit around for 4+ hours charging with a 50 kw charger, which is what every FastDC charger I have found around my area is. Or if you go home, and all you have access to is a level 2 charger, the fastest you can charge at is 12kw and could take almost 20 hours. I daily drive a Chevy Bolt, but an EV truck will not be replacing my ICE F150 any time soon, except for maybe the new RamCharger that is coming out.
I’ve seen only 2 of these on the road in WA state. All I can say is WOW IM IMPRESSED!! They’re great looking and honestly have inspired me to take a real HARD look at eventually buying an electric vehicle. No matter the case, I love my fuel burners. I have a pretty fun classic car collection so I’m always going to need gasoline. But the rivian is certainly changing my opinion of EV’s
I love this video, I’ve watched it over and over. Thanks for covering the R1T which if you think about it is the best deal out there! Quick as a super car, world class off roader, truck bed for hauling, respectable towing….I’m putting my deposit down on one today!
You can't actually tow with them for any sort of distance because it'll run out of juice, and it can't corner like a sports car obviously, but it's a great drag racer and off roader.
I appreciate your choice of driving environments. IE. I grew up in Boise as a child and Live in SW washington for 25 years. The roads are super familiar and constantly traveled by me and me friends. Your channel is incredibly entertaining and educational for us gear heads
I want this truck more and more every video I watch on it. Its so far out of my price range, but it being around means I will be able to get something like it someday
Totally. With tech like this coming out, we will eventually see a car (or hatchback) with something more reasonable like a 50hp motor at each wheel. Maybe a Subaru?
@@JackOfHearts42 the consequences of using a larger battery is that you have more available HP so high range EVs will have a lot of horsepower by default.
While this system may be able to “mimic any 4th system out there,” it doesn’t do it well. Months ago I saw a video of some people off roading one of these things. If Rivian would install a manual locking switch, it would make wheel much easier. It’ll still let the wheel in the air spin while the one on the ground is stationary. “When in doubt, throttle out” doesn’t work when the computer thinks it know what to do when you’ve got two airborne wheels spinning and two grounded wheels stationary.
How would this handle sand dunes... You want tons of wheel speed but need to be able to modulate it when the vehicle starts to dig/sink. Most "smart" systems are absolute junk in this situation. When you can't turn them off, some vehicles will just refuse to move. This is obviously not most smart systems though so I genuinely am curious what it would do... Also does it have an option to just turn off and give it the beans (to all 4 tires). As always an awesome explanation from Jason!
Hi Michael, Rivian just added a Sand Mode with the latest OTA. I have not tried it yet, but I believe that they have tuned the system to give the response you describe. I am looking forward to making it on Matt’s Off Road Recovery soon….
@@bigh8121 how many people will take them in half of these situations or off road at all... I'm just curious how it would handle it. Deep mud would be similar with the need for wheel spin to free tire tread and gain traction.
More I think about this setup though the better it really is because with a software update they could have it adapt to just about any situation. It will be interesting to see where this technology goes.
Wow I haven't thought about the electric SLS in years, and I didn't realize it's been almost a decade since we first saw it. Just went back and watched Chris Harris' classic review and it's absolutely incredible to see how much the automotive world has changed since then. Even reading the comments on that video from 9 years ago is such a trip.
been waiting for someone to do this for over a decade.... more like two decades... now make it a series-hybrid for weight management and you have pretty close to the perfect vehicle.. Cheers!
I'd love to see a Rivian sports car following those principles. Probably we need battery tech to improve, but I definitively can see myself in a small form factor of all that tech. Like a Jimny! that would be amazing!!!
I'd say battery tech for an off-road capable vehicle is more important. With a car, when you're out of juice, you're way more likely to still be on an actual road.. haha. You tried though.
I own a rivian. And I'm a pro race car driver. The tech is VERY impressive on road. I have their optional 22" sport rims /tires. It's nearly impossible to break this truck loose, and I'm talking about driving VERY agrresively in corners. It just grips and turns. Once it breaks loose... It just 4 wheel skips a little but maintains its trajectory and just goes. It's very very impressive. Fastest, grippiest street car I've ever driven and I've owned a few good ones.
I worked for the company that did a lot of the plastic parts on this vehicle. I worked on the plastic that is on the slide outs there behind the rear doors.
Hi engineering explained. Thanks for broadcasting this message. It’s clear that you get it - All the reasons quad is king!! I can’t wait for the community to catch the wave and push this tech further and further to make the most exciting vehicles possible. Thanks
Hey Engineering Explained guy, I'm random guy on the internet guy. I've always valued your videos for their informative nature. I have noticed that your videos have moved away from this authentic, informative platform. This video begins stating that "this video will convince you otherwise". It feels like your goal is more persuasive then informative. Perhaps I'm reading into it too much, but the fine footage of a brand new, exclusive vehicle suggests that Rivian would also like to convince us otherwise. While taking advantage of the opportunity to test exciting new cars must be necessary for growing your channel and keeping your content new and diverse, it also suggests that your impartial opinions may be subject to outside influence. I have found this to be a trend with other automotive channels. With each glowing review you give, I believe your credibility slips. Your unbiased, thoughtful and well researched topics gained you a platform which has yielded new opportunities, but those opportunities may oppose the same values that brought you to where you are. Can I suggest that you take advantage of your fame and borrow cars from fans in future videos, or seek out similar experiences that won't interfere with your craft. I only say all this cause you kick total ass! If you need an RT10 Viper in PDX, I can hook you up!
Hey there! Yeah, I mean from my perspective anytime I'm positive about something, there are a lot of comments I'm unbiased. I think the tech is cool, so I talked about it. It's not a negative video. Sometimes that happens. This isn't a review, either, it's purely about the AWD system. The Rivian has flaws. It's heavy, the navigation kinda sucks (search is terrible, can't find trailheads or off-road parks), and on-road there are definitely more comfortable trucks out there. I'm not sold on the throttle tuning either. But again, this isn't a review, and the AWD system is genuinely super cool, and functionally very impressive.
please would you consider doing one of you original whiteboard style videos explaining the eaton trutrac differential!!! I'm close to getting it and how the increasing of load works more to effect gear separation forces to 'tighten' things, but I'm not quite there, and I just know you would nail the explanation!!!!
Just think of the nerds that designed the software for this vehicle. My brain hurts just thinking about it. About 15 years ago in one of my Four Wheeler magazines I remember seeing GM talking about a SEMA prototype truck that had an electric motor at each wheel. The amount of torque to each wheel projected back then was just insane to think of it didn't sound real. It sounded awesome but it never materialized. I wonder how these EV trucks compare with center of gravity to fossil fuel trucks? I would assume the EV's have a lower center of gravity and harder to tip over.
Jason, Thanks as always for the useful information. Curious about your thoughts on the 2 motor vs 4 motor variations given the $6k price difference during mainly on road driving through snow. Totally agree the 4 motor variation would perform better off road and during high speed cornering, but given the price difference and (I'm making an assumption here) decreased range of having to drive 4 motors vs 2, why opt for the 4 motor variant unless you intend on some serious off roading? Just looking for your opinion. Thanks.
To further echo "I Argue..."'s comment, if you go into the "studio" on Rivian's website, their estimated mile difference is a whopping *6* miles (314 vs 320+ based on current estimates for dual motor). Not exactly a whole lot and I think utility would definitely be more key in decided whether you need a quad motor. The only other thing I can think of besides offroading would be towing for the extra torque, but we're talking 600 lb/ft vs 900.
I love the technology of the Rivian, but I am super glad they allow you to mimic full lockers. When off-roading optimal torque delivery isn’t always the preferred output, consistent and predictable torque delivery in precarious situations or when crawling an obstacle may be preferred. Sudden traction from the computer figuring out where to send torque can be dangerous.
Open diffs don't give 25% to each tyre, they send power to the least path of resistance. One tyre lifts off the ground, all your power goes to that tyre, preventing your other wheels from transferring power to the ground. Diff locks send 25% power to each tyre, no matter the amount of traction each tyre has. Great video, thank you.
Having driven the Honda/Acura SH-AWD, I've wanted this type of design improvement, or even just two motors for individual rear wheels and less weight. Hopefully the design will become more mainstream to drive the wheels independently.
I'm with you. I have an Audi that has their "Sport Differential" which does the same thing - mechanical overdrive. It's really great and I would love to see this truck effectively best it.
I own a 2017 MDX with shawd and I'm impressed by it every winter especially when going up slippery slopes that some 4x4 pickup trucks were struggling on. It's no offroader though. I've scraped the bottom on lots of mild construction sites
I went from an Acura MDX sh awd to a Toyota Highlander. I lost the fun factor. This is why I am so excited to get the R1S, I can get my EV and the spirited driving again. Plus the safety in the mountains.
Nice technology. The only room for improvement would seem to be old-tech inboard disc brakes to reduce unsprung weight. With there already a drive shaft to each wheel, would making that shaft strong enough to safely allow for this appreciably increase the overall weight of the vehicle?
@@divitu Yes, but you can make the shaft strong enough that it is highly unlikely to fail. Even if one did fail you would still have brakes on the other 3 wheels. Way back in 1961 the Jaguar E-Type had inboard rear brakes acting through half shafts that also served as upper control arms. As far as I know they were not hazardous when properly maintained. So I have to wonder if this is considered a safety issue due to an actual record of failures in cars with inboard brakes, or if something else is at work here.
If i'm not mistaken it is a mandatory safety requirement to have the brakes directly behind the wheel. Same reason pinion brakes are illegal on road. Pinion brakes are fairly common on rockwell diffs a lot of big offroad builds use. Minimize as many potential failure points as possible.
@@patman0003 Yes, I suspected a regulatory restriction is behind this. I just don't see a compelling justification for it. I think one could argue that a wheel mounted brake is just as likely to fail as an inboard mounted one. Or cause the suspension to fail due to the torque applied to flexible ball joints and the like.
Honestly the truck doesnt even need brakes, the electric motors should be able to brake the car with no issue. I have a remote controlled truck that can do 60mph and only uses the engine to brake and it will flip over if you hit the "brakes" too hard.
Minor nitpick, as I understand it, ABS doesn't actually improve your stopping distance, it just allows more control. Certainly true on older cars anyway. The Rivian is super cool, any chance you can sneak away with one to a rally cross for "testing" purposes?
Been waiting for someone to put together this AWD electric package for a while. Adverse conditions is where EV Drive can achieve much better performance compared to other typical ICE drive line configurations. For an ICE passenger vehicle to achieve similar performance the drive likely would require something like a CVT for every wheel as well as whatever splits output from the engine to the diffs.
@@darcykeddell4930 preach buddy! 'They' should give a more transparent mileage rating. On a trip from nj to CO 1°f my charge times almost doubled and the 2021 m3 lr battery seemed to get near 200 miles instead of 300. I tried one section in a winter jacket with heat off and got 240 miles.
@@borshardsd maybe they can make a battery warmer like some people do with RC batteries in cold weather. I guess you could also have it cool down the batteries if they got too hot
The parallels between the rivian and my laren suspension was something no ke talked about not even Monroe love. Those guys compared it to a humvee. Jason is brilliant, kudos!!
in the words of musk "the biggest mistake of the smart engineer is solving for a problem that should not exist" the four electric motor setup make a lot of sense because you don't have to put any effort into lockers, torque vectoring or special differentials for distributing torque or any kind of complex 4x4 system. you can build the motors to whatever size you need and use electronic control to handle the power distribution.
@@Karlhung no cyber truck from the start was meant to be quite cheaper than the rivian so a less motors meant less cost. the cybertruck was going to be originally offered in 1, 2 or 3 motor configuration. if they added a four motor variant that would be even more expensive but something they could offer. considering the Cybertruck msrp starts at 39,900 that four motors isn't something tesla can offer at that price point. the rivian r1t starts at 67,000 so its not even a similar ball park.
@@fluffywarhampster the quad motor cybertruck starts @69k and with how much Tesla has increased prices on all of their cars this year, I bet cheapest entry point of cybertruck will be 45-49k.
@@Karlhung still cheaper than the cheapest rivian before they tried to squeeze their preorder customers for an additional 10k on vehicles they had on order…the cost jumps have hit all the auto manufacturers not just tesla
Cool vid! What I like about this is that I finally don't have to waste my time building an off roader and testing it/tuning it/learning from the community of other off roaders. Now I can just show up with this and get all the respect without any of the work. I just hope I'm not ignored the same way I am at the drag strip when I bring my plaid. Drag racers don't seem to care even though I run 9s.... weird
What's weird about it? Nothing impressive about flooring a Tesla in a straight line. Properly off roading takes some skill. The fact you're worried about "respect" and not capability explains it. Don't worry what others think. Worry about what your need the vehicle for and if it can do it.
You did a great job reviewing the paperwork end of the truck, but I'm more interested in the real world review. Availability of parts and the cost, what repair shops had the training to service it, what specialty tools would this truck require. Can I service it with the old 1960s v series tools? etc.
It's an electric vehicle, so other than changing the tires and tweaking the suspension there's not much- no engine parts - to work on. If you need service you can take it to your nearest rivian service center (just started building them) or call for remote service. They are prioritizing deliveries to areas where they've built service centers. It's definitely an issue that all that old expertise about optimizing engines isn't much practical use. The good news is the first 10 years of Tesla ownership has shown they are really reliable compared to legacy auto. It's hard to know how service will go long-term. Tesla's new battery packs are aimed at 1 million miles of use, but current generation evs are warrantied to 100 to 150k miles depending on the car. Imagine basically no warranty work over 100k miles. No oil changes, spark plugs, mufflers, air filters fuel filters.
@@lattelandlatteland Considering this truck might actually be used off-roading (though mostly mall crawling), there's more to break than ICE components, and I think having to field-service steering and suspension components is a real possibility. Plenty of vehicles on MORR have had broken steering and suspension parts.
With independent motors, it would be nice to see the ability to pivot on the spot. That would be even better than a front dig which is the holy grail of conventional off-road drivetrains. Also dual rate sway bars would be better than disconnects.
@@ILoveTinfoilHats the tires don't need to point in different directions because off-road traction is low enough that tire wear is negligible. Even then, 4 wheel steer is a thing. The electric Hummer has something similar.
I didn't think it could get any better, when pitted against the Dodge Ram TRX (which the Rivian smoked). But this, is truly amazing. This is DEFINATELY going to appeal to the off roaders, much as I'm sure they might not like the idea of EV's. How this thing handles off road and is superior doing it, is the only way it will convert the hardcore ICE people. Good thinking on their part with the Engineering and the bonus side effect of that, is it really helps marketing it. I can't think of any reason not to absolutely love everything about this truck.
Software, would fail. Too much guessing leading to flip flop in calculations, Independent motors allow it to have less variables thus acting accordingly. Amazing work as always !
For towing long distances, Diesel engines still are more efficient and have superior payload. BEV trucks, make more sense to use is as a car, to the Delivery sector with short routes and working shifts. For longer distances, towing heavy loads, with fast refueling, Hybrids or Hydrogen powered trucks, would make more economical sense. Just lacking currently the proper infrastructure.
Have you seen the Toyota hydrogen cell that was released last week? I think THAT will be the future of trucking if The Powers That Be continue to vilify diesel.
To be nit picky, electric vehicles are still more "efficient" when towing, but the distance traveled is hampered due to wind resistance. Combustion engines throw most of their energy out as heat, so towing dosen't impact distance traveled as much. For instance, if someone created an EV with "500 mile towing range" it would be able to drive over 1000mi without a trailer". If you had to create the energy going into each vehicle by yourself, you'd want to be charging an electric vehicle with your work, not throwing 60% of your energy away as waste heat. I know what you mean though... Just picking at the specifics.
In theory, the quad motor setup is superior, but practically speaking, it doesn't work so well off-road. And it's not just me.... plenty of other Rivian owners have had less-than-stellar experiences with our vehicles in off-road situations. This is a case of theory beats practicality. My Jeep with a QDII 4WD is superior off-road to my Rivian, both using the same all-terrain tires.
As amazing as the content in the R1T is, the driveline is ultimately reactive, where a locked diffs/tcase system is automatic/proactive. A mechanical system doesn't need to see slip to amp up the power at the wheel with more load. For rock crawling, slip is not favorable, as you lose momentum and can dig ruts, reducing the overall available grip and creating an additional step ahead of the tire that needs to be overcome. Also, those individual motors ultimately produce a small fraction of torque to the wheels compared to a 4x4 with low-range and lockers. Having excess available torque makes it much easier to modulate and control the ascent or descent. With that all said, the R1T's system is highly adaptable to a wide variety of driving scenarios, which is, imo, it's greatest asset. Not rock crawling, though.
As a mechanical engineer, it's been obvious for a long time that one-motor-per-wheel is the ultimate off-road (and on-road) set up. It is refreshing to see it finally happen. All of the tech shown in this video is something the big manufacturers could have easily implemented long ago if they wanted - they just aren't interested in innovation.
Very nice explanation, these guys are on an entirely different level. My concern, though, is that this suspension setup looks horribly expensive to maintain.
One issue with an AWD system that attempts to calculate friction and limit torque. No traction, no torque and you don't move. It might work on surfaces shown in the video but in mud or ice you're stuck. Now they might have something else up their sleeve to overcome this but some times you need wheel spin and a lot of it. This might be why it can still mimic low tech 4x4.
Overthinking and making non existent problems. Put it in the appropriate mode and go. You didn't watch the whole video? Jason explained the variable slip settings. Common sense would lead you to assume they have a "near no traction" environment accounted for with the AWD system. Something that will allow the tires to spin, fight, and crawl out of a spot.
@@Sheridantank yes, I did watch the entire video but other systems have attempted a similar technique, all be it without electric motors, and have failed in real world scenarios. Will the system allow for wheels to spin at high rpm when in a near zero traction situation or will it allow a half turn of the wheel at a time trying to find grip when there is none?
I would be curious to see how this works in muddy conditions.I wonder if this would perform in muddy conditions like a diesel truck. Where even though you have a excessive amount of torque and can spin the tires ,You can not spin them fast enough to clean the mud out and have good forward progress.
I was surprised to see how much a wheel that was momentarily in the air continued to spin on the Rivian, considering it could easily have stopped the wheel, then applied torque again once it was back on the ground. I could see it turning slowly just so it would be able to tell when it had traction again, but it seemed like the G-Wagen did a better job with that. Some more thoughts: the benefit of this using software to achieve all-wheel drive is it can easily be improved as real world experience is gained, and owners of the first trucks would be able to get those improvements without having to replace any hardware. Also it makes the hardware simpler since it doesn't have to transfer power around the vehicle like in a conventional truck or SUV. Downsides: software bugs could result in serious safety and/or performance issues, though hopefully enough testing has been done in enough different conditions that no major bugs remain. Also, no fail-safe. If too many sensor failures happen - and they WILL happen especially off-road, this has no basic mechanical operation to fall back to. Unless there's some sort of "limp home" mode that simply limits the power to the motors in the hopes you aren't too far from a maintained road, this is going to require a recovery vehicle. Not to mention that EVs have no equivalent of a jerry can.
Some fair points - something I think's worth pointing out though, you have four motors here. You could theoretically get home with 1, if conditions allowed. If your engine fails, you're done. Many EVs have two motors (front and rear) meaning you could still get home (or somewhere nearby to tow) if one were to fail.
This is the future. Interestingly I used to play a table top game called "Car Wars". Petrol has run out, society has fallen apart. Everyone drives electric cares (fuel cells), each wheel has it's own motor. This was an idea back from the late 70s (or early 80s). P.S how does this thing tow?
Interesting in the game! Regarding towing, it actually tows GREAT, better than ICE trucks in most ways because of the power and stability. But, for regular longer distance towing, it is much less practical due to limited range and time needed to recharge. For around town towing, say less than 125 miles and where you plug back in at home overnight, it is awesome.
@@baer19741 thank you for that. I would want it for distance towing. Given the trend away from gasoline, my next motor will probably be electric. However we tow our caravan for holidays, so not sure what we are going to do for the future, unless RVs get electrified
Jason, Im confused. You say the locked diffs on the G-wagon can send 100% torque to one wheel. My understanding is a locked diff simply stops being a differential and locks split at 50% to each wheel. with the center locked, this would be 25% of transmission output torque. Sorry if I'm incorrect. Love the channel!
If all 4 wheels are turning the same speed but only one wheel has traction the only place the torque can go is to that wheel, so 100% of the torque is applied to one wheel.
@@extragoode I believe you are also confused. A vehicle with open differentials will send all available torque to the wheel up in the air and not the wheel with traction. The Torque follows the path of least resistance in this case. When the diff is locked, both the wheel with traction and the one without traction will spin at the same speed. Zero engine torque applied equals zero rotation assuming no other forces.
I've been following Rivian since I saw them on Long Way Up. Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman had two Rivian R1T trucks as the support vehicles on their trip from Ushuaia, Argentina to LA that they did on modified Harley-Davidson Livewires. Rivian actually gave them the first two prototype vehicles that they had built and literally finished them just before the trip was set to start.
Great video, and an even more great Rivian architecture and design... The one thing you glossed over just a little is that while the suspension and four motor design may have amazing capability, it is still ultimately limited by how good the software and algorithms are. I took delivery of mine about a week ago, and while I'm incredibly impressed, there definitely is room for improvement in the software. Hopefully future over-the-air updates make the AWD and suspension hardware perform at an even higher level... I'd also really like to see actual parameter info on how things change in different modes... Having a bunch of off road modes like "rock crawl", "drift", "rally" is cool, but i'd rather see details on how they are modifying suspension, throttle, ride height, torque management, etc rather than just have a cool name.
It would be cool to have something similar to a video game, where there are different bars for the stats that show the different levels of various things.
When you said that the truck can tell what surface it's on, my mind instantly went back to programming frequency drives. The things these electric drive systems can do!
I just watched a video on Out of Spec Overlander where the Rivian had some trouble overcoming an obstacle whereas the Frontier with a locking differential walked over it.
Yeah, that was frustrating to watch because the driver didn’t appear to give the Rivian sufficient juice to move the two wheels that were in full contact with the ground. I’m sure we’ll see more examples in the near future of the Rivian being tested in similar situations to see what it can do when driven the way it is intended to be driven.
As an embedded controls engineer working on these things day in and day out and also an enthusiast, while I knew much of the material I am still impressed by the presentation and clear articulation. Explaining is not the same as knowing, good job Jason!
this AWD system seems really cool. I was wondering how the system deals with rapid change in friction coefficient? Is the system able to poll the friction coefficient and adjust torque to the wheel at a high rate?
so 1950's packers were some inspiration? as they have a really cool torsion system
The power control system is basically an ABS that controls power input rather than brake friction. This anti wheel slip should be just as quick operating as any ABS
Thanks for the very kind words, and also thanks for the cool work you do!
@@EngineeringExplained it's said that EVs make a lot of torque. But when you calculate how much a regular, let's say, Jeep Wrangler makes, especially when counting both the crawl ratio and torque converter slippage torque multiplication, the Jeep wins. From RUclips videos I know that these EV trucks perdorm well offroad. How's that possible? Does Jeep have more torque than it can possibly handle?
As both an on-road and off-road enthusiast I have been waiting to see this done for a very long time, and Rivian has done way more with it than I imagined possible. The only drawback is the same as going from a manual gas car to EV, the lack of levers and switches (lockers) to play with ;)
Actually there is a noticeable delay (that has been reported by actual Rivian enthusiasts) in the way that Rivian controls the output electronically, which is a true drawback...
it would be nice if its hybrid. like the chevy volt. run either full on gas or ev. sometimes you just need gas for safety. you run out of battery and youre stuck somewhere in the jungle
Why would you need lockers when each wheel will always get drive
@@Combatants1 he meant that just like driving a stick which you enjoy the car more than automatic. The same from off road trucks that you want to switch the locker on or off. I can relate this as I sometime leave the locker off and see how much traction is then locked it and see the difference.
@@Combatants1 I prefer to see how far I can take my truck than see how far my truck can take me. As much as I would marvel at the engineering when driving an R1T around, I also enjoy having to make choices between gears, 2WD and 4WD, and which locker to engage.
This is such a good video. Holy crap. I’ve always liked you videos, but this one… wow. Very well done. Everything flowed so well, you explained things in a way which would make sense to everyone, and you explained a huge amount of detail without it feeling overwhelming, all somehow within a 13 minute video. Nice freaking job dude.
Thanks, really appreciate it!
Awesome episode! Gotta push Tesla to get you inside the Cybertruck ASAP for the most awesome comparison ever with this one! Cheers!
This channel is outstanding. I loved the really good explanations and footage. I learned a heck of a lot, more than I expected to learn. Another insanely entertaining and HILARIOUS channel is "FortNine." Look up his channel and be prepared to laugh out loud, his videos are maybe the best vehicle videos on the internet, despite it being a motorcycle channel, he talks about engineering and engines, and physics, and it's super interesting.
This is pretty cool! Never thought of traction systems getting more advanced than monitoring wheel slip.
I can also see an opportunity to implement an un-stuck mode, where the wheels could rock the car back/forth using onboard sensors automatically. Also if they were enabled to communicate over wifi/bluetooth, the lead car of a convoy could communicate wheel slip/ground conditions to those following.
@Knaught Shure it is cool and great for traffic but I just fear what that means for actual freedom on the road, or even in general.
@@Globbs iRobot.. will Smith almost got killed by those SOB, no freedom driving cars
That's some serious thinking outside the box man. If you're young, do something great with your mind bc the majority of the world would never have even thought of something like that
This is the reason I keep watching your videos. The absolute execution of how you've explained this is perfect.
Great video! As EVs continue to demonstrate what’s possible, it’s becoming more apparent to me how so much cool automotive technology of the past century was developed to overcome inherent limitations of IC engines. Transmissions are the biggest, but this shows that entire drivetrains have also been compromises. They don’t do what you really want, because what you really want isn’t possible with IC engines.
Someday we’re going to wonder how IC powertrains hung on as long as they did.
Biggest problems of EVs is the electric grid. Even without many EVs, the North American power grids have been struggling to keep up with demand. EVs will double that.
@@iunnox666 yes and no. I'll refer you to Engineering Explained video about the subject.
ICE are severely compromised, in that they are very complex mechanically, require a very complex transmission, to overcome uneven power delivery across the RPM spectrum and are only 33% efficient. They also require a lot of maintenance. Electric motors have full torque from zero RPM, are very simple mechanically, and are very efficient. Once you drive an electric for a while, you become dissatisfied with the lazy throttle response that accompanies ICE engines with multi-speed transmissions.
@@iunnox666 If everyone isnt buying 7500 lb Rivians and Lightnings and Silverado EV's with 130+ kwh batteries, its not that huge of a deal. I drove my Chevy bolt 3500 miles in 3 months just using the 120V/12A level 1 charger that came with it. Just dont get home and set you level 2 charger to 50A when you have 12 hours before you need to go somewhere again and could charge at 10A
But of course, what would anyone ever do without a full size truck to head to Wholefoods in.
@@carljaekle Yes, but particularly in the truck realm, ICE still has one massive advantage over BEV, and thats range under load. Even the 212 kwh Silverado EV only has 2/3 of the range of my regular old gas F150 towing a trailer.
And then once you've depleted that massive 212 kwh battery, and you can't find a 200+ kW capable charger, you get to sit around for 4+ hours charging with a 50 kw charger, which is what every FastDC charger I have found around my area is. Or if you go home, and all you have access to is a level 2 charger, the fastest you can charge at is 12kw and could take almost 20 hours.
I daily drive a Chevy Bolt, but an EV truck will not be replacing my ICE F150 any time soon, except for maybe the new RamCharger that is coming out.
I’ve seen only 2 of these on the road in WA state. All I can say is WOW IM IMPRESSED!! They’re great looking and honestly have inspired me to take a real HARD look at eventually buying an electric vehicle. No matter the case, I love my fuel burners. I have a pretty fun classic car collection so I’m always going to need gasoline. But the rivian is certainly changing my opinion of EV’s
I love this video, I’ve watched it over and over. Thanks for covering the R1T which if you think about it is the best deal out there! Quick as a super car, world class off roader, truck bed for hauling, respectable towing….I’m putting my deposit down on one today!
You can't actually tow with them for any sort of distance because it'll run out of juice, and it can't corner like a sports car obviously, but it's a great drag racer and off roader.
I like when you use formulas to explain the physics 👍🏻
That's like commending someone for using words when speaking
Jason, only YOU could fully explain this AWD/4WD system! It’s a work of art and design!
These trucks are truly amazing 👏 Cool that we're starting to see them out on the road.
saw 1 charging at my school (for free). a nice truck, kinda boring looking imo, but refined and clean.
I appreciate your choice of driving environments. IE. I grew up in Boise as a child and Live in SW washington for 25 years. The roads are super familiar and constantly traveled by me and me friends. Your channel is incredibly entertaining and educational for us gear heads
I want this truck more and more every video I watch on it. Its so far out of my price range, but it being around means I will be able to get something like it someday
Totally. With tech like this coming out, we will eventually see a car (or hatchback) with something more reasonable like a 50hp motor at each wheel. Maybe a Subaru?
I agree. But with the price of ice F150 climbing over $80k with gas saving.
@@JackOfHearts42 the consequences of using a larger battery is that you have more available HP so high range EVs will have a lot of horsepower by default.
While this system may be able to “mimic any 4th system out there,” it doesn’t do it well. Months ago I saw a video of some people off roading one of these things. If Rivian would install a manual locking switch, it would make wheel much easier. It’ll still let the wheel in the air spin while the one on the ground is stationary. “When in doubt, throttle out” doesn’t work when the computer thinks it know what to do when you’ve got two airborne wheels spinning and two grounded wheels stationary.
How would this handle sand dunes... You want tons of wheel speed but need to be able to modulate it when the vehicle starts to dig/sink. Most "smart" systems are absolute junk in this situation. When you can't turn them off, some vehicles will just refuse to move. This is obviously not most smart systems though so I genuinely am curious what it would do... Also does it have an option to just turn off and give it the beans (to all 4 tires). As always an awesome explanation from Jason!
Hi Michael, Rivian just added a Sand Mode with the latest OTA. I have not tried it yet, but I believe that they have tuned the system to give the response you describe. I am looking forward to making it on Matt’s Off Road Recovery soon….
How many people will take this into sand dunes???
@@GuyFaulk Cool that Rivian is thinking about that. Well here's hopping I don't see you on MOR but if I do I'm sure they'll get you out ;)
@@bigh8121 how many people will take them in half of these situations or off road at all... I'm just curious how it would handle it. Deep mud would be similar with the need for wheel spin to free tire tread and gain traction.
More I think about this setup though the better it really is because with a software update they could have it adapt to just about any situation. It will be interesting to see where this technology goes.
Wow I haven't thought about the electric SLS in years, and I didn't realize it's been almost a decade since we first saw it. Just went back and watched Chris Harris' classic review and it's absolutely incredible to see how much the automotive world has changed since then. Even reading the comments on that video from 9 years ago is such a trip.
This is why I went with the quad motor rather than the newer lower priced dual motor! Well lower for pre 3/1 orders!
been waiting for someone to do this for over a decade.... more like two decades... now make it a series-hybrid for weight management and you have pretty close to the perfect vehicle.. Cheers!
This improved my opinion of Rivian by quite a bit, CyberTruck I’m still waiting for u
Great job, Jay. As stated below, "Explaining is not the same as knowing," which every good teacher knows, so that makes you an excellent teacher.
Loved it. Please do a full in depth episode on R1 suspension alone.
I have FINALLY found a video that explains locking diffs in an easily digestible way! Thank you!!
I'd love to see a Rivian sports car following those principles. Probably we need battery tech to improve, but I definitively can see myself in a small form factor of all that tech. Like a Jimny! that would be amazing!!!
Agreed, I’d love it in a smaller package!
They probably need to figure out how to mass produce a vehicle before working on something else.
I'd say battery tech for an off-road capable vehicle is more important. With a car, when you're out of juice, you're way more likely to still be on an actual road.. haha. You tried though.
wait for the refresh of the tesla roadster. 4 motors, plus CGT...
I own a rivian. And I'm a pro race car driver. The tech is VERY impressive on road. I have their optional 22" sport rims /tires. It's nearly impossible to break this truck loose, and I'm talking about driving VERY agrresively in corners. It just grips and turns. Once it breaks loose... It just 4 wheel skips a little but maintains its trajectory and just goes. It's very very impressive. Fastest, grippiest street car I've ever driven and I've owned a few good ones.
Your calculation of N only works when on flat level ground unless there is some kind of angle sensor as welll
I worked for the company that did a lot of the plastic parts on this vehicle. I worked on the plastic that is on the slide outs there behind the rear doors.
Hi engineering explained. Thanks for broadcasting this message. It’s clear that you get it - All the reasons quad is king!! I can’t wait for the community to catch the wave and push this tech further and further to make the most exciting vehicles possible.
Thanks
Hey Engineering Explained guy, I'm random guy on the internet guy. I've always valued your videos for their informative nature. I have noticed that your videos have moved away from this authentic, informative platform. This video begins stating that "this video will convince you otherwise". It feels like your goal is more persuasive then informative. Perhaps I'm reading into it too much, but the fine footage of a brand new, exclusive vehicle suggests that Rivian would also like to convince us otherwise. While taking advantage of the opportunity to test exciting new cars must be necessary for growing your channel and keeping your content new and diverse, it also suggests that your impartial opinions may be subject to outside influence. I have found this to be a trend with other automotive channels. With each glowing review you give, I believe your credibility slips. Your unbiased, thoughtful and well researched topics gained you a platform which has yielded new opportunities, but those opportunities may oppose the same values that brought you to where you are. Can I suggest that you take advantage of your fame and borrow cars from fans in future videos, or seek out similar experiences that won't interfere with your craft. I only say all this cause you kick total ass! If you need an RT10 Viper in PDX, I can hook you up!
Hey there! Yeah, I mean from my perspective anytime I'm positive about something, there are a lot of comments I'm unbiased. I think the tech is cool, so I talked about it. It's not a negative video. Sometimes that happens. This isn't a review, either, it's purely about the AWD system. The Rivian has flaws. It's heavy, the navigation kinda sucks (search is terrible, can't find trailheads or off-road parks), and on-road there are definitely more comfortable trucks out there. I'm not sold on the throttle tuning either. But again, this isn't a review, and the AWD system is genuinely super cool, and functionally very impressive.
Great segment, love the Rivian content! More to come?
Thanks!
Thank you!
What an amazing vehicle. Any negatives or concerns about longevity or maintenance needed for suspension components?
please would you consider doing one of you original whiteboard style videos explaining the eaton trutrac differential!!! I'm close to getting it and how the increasing of load works more to effect gear separation forces to 'tighten' things, but I'm not quite there, and I just know you would nail the explanation!!!!
Just think of the nerds that designed the software for this vehicle. My brain hurts just thinking about it. About 15 years ago in one of my Four Wheeler magazines I remember seeing GM talking about a SEMA prototype truck that had an electric motor at each wheel. The amount of torque to each wheel projected back then was just insane to think of it didn't sound real. It sounded awesome but it never materialized. I wonder how these EV trucks compare with center of gravity to fossil fuel trucks? I would assume the EV's have a lower center of gravity and harder to tip over.
Look up rollover tests for the Tesla Model Y. It's damn near impossible to flip one.
You can lower the c of g in ice
I watched the whole thing in preview without click away. Wonderful presentation
Jason, Thanks as always for the useful information. Curious about your thoughts on the 2 motor vs 4 motor variations given the $6k price difference during mainly on road driving through snow. Totally agree the 4 motor variation would perform better off road and during high speed cornering, but given the price difference and (I'm making an assumption here) decreased range of having to drive 4 motors vs 2, why opt for the 4 motor variant unless you intend on some serious off roading? Just looking for your opinion. Thanks.
You don't have the same drivetrain loses as an ICE engine with AWD in this setup, and it's not just one driveshaft with all the power
To further echo "I Argue..."'s comment, if you go into the "studio" on Rivian's website, their estimated mile difference is a whopping *6* miles (314 vs 320+ based on current estimates for dual motor). Not exactly a whole lot and I think utility would definitely be more key in decided whether you need a quad motor. The only other thing I can think of besides offroading would be towing for the extra torque, but we're talking 600 lb/ft vs 900.
@@cphorn15 I did not notice the 6 mile range difference, thx. Plus the addition power is big for a small lose of 6 miles range.
Most people do nothing with their AWD systems to begin with
I would argue when you are paying 90K leaving 6K would seem not wise concidering the down grade
I love the technology of the Rivian, but I am super glad they allow you to mimic full lockers. When off-roading optimal torque delivery isn’t always the preferred output, consistent and predictable torque delivery in precarious situations or when crawling an obstacle may be preferred. Sudden traction from the computer figuring out where to send torque can be dangerous.
Open diffs don't give 25% to each tyre, they send power to the least path of resistance. One tyre lifts off the ground, all your power goes to that tyre, preventing your other wheels from transferring power to the ground. Diff locks send 25% power to each tyre, no matter the amount of traction each tyre has. Great video, thank you.
Having driven the Honda/Acura SH-AWD, I've wanted this type of design improvement, or even just two motors for individual rear wheels and less weight. Hopefully the design will become more mainstream to drive the wheels independently.
I'm with you. I have an Audi that has their "Sport Differential" which does the same thing - mechanical overdrive. It's really great and I would love to see this truck effectively best it.
SH-AWD still has open differential on the front, or at least it used to. Maybe they changed it.
I own a 2017 MDX with shawd and I'm impressed by it every winter especially when going up slippery slopes that some 4x4 pickup trucks were struggling on. It's no offroader though. I've scraped the bottom on lots of mild construction sites
I went from an Acura MDX sh awd to a Toyota Highlander. I lost the fun factor. This is why I am so excited to get the R1S, I can get my EV and the spirited driving again. Plus the safety in the mountains.
@@falxonPSN So does BMW except there's can do torque vectoring and still lock like an E-LSD can
Jason, I want like 5 videos on this thing. Lots of engineering to be explained here and you're the man!
This is a bold title for a bold (and expensive) truck.
AWD system info & where a body can or cannot fit in the storage compartments. This is all we needed.
Finally!!! Somebody explains torque split as it is (completely opposite to marketing BS repeated by uneducated press). Love your content.
This is is a great high level explanation to how locking differentials work. Will help me tune my cars in games like Wreckfest!
Nice technology. The only room for improvement would seem to be old-tech inboard disc brakes to reduce unsprung weight. With there already a drive shaft to each wheel, would making that shaft strong enough to safely allow for this appreciably increase the overall weight of the vehicle?
I'm guessing that they did this as a safety measure. If the linkage from the motor to the wheel fails, you can still brake.
@@divitu Yes, but you can make the shaft strong enough that it is highly unlikely to fail. Even if one did fail you would still have brakes on the other 3 wheels. Way back in 1961 the Jaguar E-Type had inboard rear brakes acting through half shafts that also served as upper control arms. As far as I know they were not hazardous when properly maintained. So I have to wonder if this is considered a safety issue due to an actual record of failures in cars with inboard brakes, or if something else is at work here.
If i'm not mistaken it is a mandatory safety requirement to have the brakes directly behind the wheel. Same reason pinion brakes are illegal on road. Pinion brakes are fairly common on rockwell diffs a lot of big offroad builds use. Minimize as many potential failure points as possible.
@@patman0003 Yes, I suspected a regulatory restriction is behind this. I just don't see a compelling justification for it. I think one could argue that a wheel mounted brake is just as likely to fail as an inboard mounted one. Or cause the suspension to fail due to the torque applied to flexible ball joints and the like.
Honestly the truck doesnt even need brakes, the electric motors should be able to brake the car with no issue. I have a remote controlled truck that can do 60mph and only uses the engine to brake and it will flip over if you hit the "brakes" too hard.
Minor nitpick, as I understand it, ABS doesn't actually improve your stopping distance, it just allows more control. Certainly true on older cars anyway. The Rivian is super cool, any chance you can sneak away with one to a rally cross for "testing" purposes?
Id imagine the regen braking does most of the work and is more effective.
Yes, it will actually increase stopping distance. The quickest way to stop is to brake at the verge of ABS coming on
Been waiting for someone to put together this AWD electric package for a while. Adverse conditions is where EV Drive can achieve much better performance compared to other typical ICE drive line configurations. For an ICE passenger vehicle to achieve similar performance the drive likely would require something like a CVT for every wheel as well as whatever splits output from the engine to the diffs.
5 speed manual, front and rear diff locks and transfer case reduction gears
Adverse and normal conditions fam. How many moving parts in ice vs electric?
@@borshardsd true that, EVs will struggle in snow as the batteries need to be warm to work
@@darcykeddell4930 preach buddy! 'They' should give a more transparent mileage rating.
On a trip from nj to CO 1°f my charge times almost doubled and the 2021 m3 lr battery seemed to get near 200 miles instead of 300.
I tried one section in a winter jacket with heat off and got 240 miles.
@@borshardsd maybe they can make a battery warmer like some people do with RC batteries in cold weather. I guess you could also have it cool down the batteries if they got too hot
That's an impressive truck. I hope one of the major manufacturers takes notice and pays Rivian to make a lot of these.
Damn I learned so much, thank you Jason!
Happy to hear it, Ben!
The parallels between the rivian and my laren suspension was something no ke talked about not even Monroe love. Those guys compared it to a humvee.
Jason is brilliant, kudos!!
in the words of musk "the biggest mistake of the smart engineer is solving for a problem that should not exist" the four electric motor setup make a lot of sense because you don't have to put any effort into lockers, torque vectoring or special differentials for distributing torque or any kind of complex 4x4 system. you can build the motors to whatever size you need and use electronic control to handle the power distribution.
Funny musk only changed cybertruck after Rivian release
@@Karlhung no cyber truck from the start was meant to be quite cheaper than the rivian so a less motors meant less cost. the cybertruck was going to be originally offered in 1, 2 or 3 motor configuration. if they added a four motor variant that would be even more expensive but something they could offer. considering the Cybertruck msrp starts at 39,900 that four motors isn't something tesla can offer at that price point. the rivian r1t starts at 67,000 so its not even a similar ball park.
@@fluffywarhampster the quad motor cybertruck starts @69k and with how much Tesla has increased prices on all of their cars this year, I bet cheapest entry point of cybertruck will be 45-49k.
@@Karlhung still cheaper than the cheapest rivian before they tried to squeeze their preorder customers for an additional 10k on vehicles they had on order…the cost jumps have hit all the auto manufacturers not just tesla
I know nothing about engineering but this video is amazingly clear and organised. Thanks for the info.
Nergasmic content. That's what I'm here for.
nergasmic?
Love ya Brian!
Nerd + Orgasm = Nergasm
Excellent video. Hope to see Rivian come as a right hand drive in Australia one day. Can’t wait.
Cool vid! What I like about this is that I finally don't have to waste my time building an off roader and testing it/tuning it/learning from the community of other off roaders. Now I can just show up with this and get all the respect without any of the work. I just hope I'm not ignored the same way I am at the drag strip when I bring my plaid. Drag racers don't seem to care even though I run 9s.... weird
What's weird about it? Nothing impressive about flooring a Tesla in a straight line. Properly off roading takes some skill.
The fact you're worried about "respect" and not capability explains it. Don't worry what others think. Worry about what your need the vehicle for and if it can do it.
What a comprehensive explanation as always
You did a great job reviewing the paperwork end of the truck, but I'm more interested in the real world review. Availability of parts and the cost, what repair shops had the training to service it, what specialty tools would this truck require. Can I service it with the old 1960s v series tools? etc.
It's an electric vehicle, so other than changing the tires and tweaking the suspension there's not much- no engine parts - to work on. If you need service you can take it to your nearest rivian service center (just started building them) or call for remote service. They are prioritizing deliveries to areas where they've built service centers. It's definitely an issue that all that old expertise about optimizing engines isn't much practical use. The good news is the first 10 years of Tesla ownership has shown they are really reliable compared to legacy auto. It's hard to know how service will go long-term. Tesla's new battery packs are aimed at 1 million miles of use, but current generation evs are warrantied to 100 to 150k miles depending on the car. Imagine basically no warranty work over 100k miles. No oil changes, spark plugs, mufflers, air filters fuel filters.
This isn’t a review, it’s an engineering explanation of the AWD system. :)
ok boomer
@@lattelandlatteland Considering this truck might actually be used off-roading (though mostly mall crawling), there's more to break than ICE components, and I think having to field-service steering and suspension components is a real possibility. Plenty of vehicles on MORR have had broken steering and suspension parts.
Brilliant. Good job EE and Rivian. We even got a whiteboard or two thrown in there, nice.
With independent motors, it would be nice to see the ability to pivot on the spot. That would be even better than a front dig which is the holy grail of conventional off-road drivetrains.
Also dual rate sway bars would be better than disconnects.
Although possible, is would not be very good for your tire life at all
Not when each tire's speed is controlled by a separate motor.
@@kaneshillingford each tire can't point in every direction and tires are not infinitely thin
@@ILoveTinfoilHats the tires don't need to point in different directions because off-road traction is low enough that tire wear is negligible. Even then, 4 wheel steer is a thing. The electric Hummer has something similar.
@@kaneshillingford and it's only a few degrees, not nearly enough
I didn't think it could get any better, when pitted against the Dodge Ram TRX (which the Rivian smoked). But this, is truly amazing. This is DEFINATELY going to appeal to the off roaders, much as I'm sure they might not like the idea of EV's. How this thing handles off road and is superior doing it, is the only way it will convert the hardcore ICE people. Good thinking on their part with the Engineering and the bonus side effect of that, is it really helps marketing it. I can't think of any reason not to absolutely love everything about this truck.
Rivian's are amazing vehicles. I hope they can start pumping more and more of them out.
Thanks for all the contacts combined with visual examples to illustrate the various engineering solutions.
Ice 0.1
Wet grass 0.01
I watch a lot of car videos, this is the best explanation of the technology . Som of which I did not know existed. Great work!
How do you charge the Rivian in the middle of nowhere? Are there any charging points?
Solar panel recharching....for a week or so. Bring supplies.
@Rero Pelo solar panels run in the low hundreds of watts an hour and these things use a couple thousand an hour.
You can't and there aren't.
With a battery that size ... why would you need to?
Install a small nuclear reactor in the "gear cave".
Nice presentation. Hate the headlights but everything else, vectoring in particular, is awesome.
Wow, that is an impressive AWD system!
I want to know how the Hummer EV compares. They claim to have an ultimate off roading vehicle.
Hummer EV can be configured either with 2 motors, one front/one rear, or with 3 motors, one front/two rear.
It is a matter of software update.
Software, would fail. Too much guessing leading to flip flop in calculations, Independent motors allow it to have less variables thus acting accordingly. Amazing work as always !
The rivian is still not as capable as trucks with fluid lockers, the rivian needs diff lockers.
Go watch out of specs overlanding or even hells revenge and see how it struggles against other trucks.
The standard Rivian R1T is a dual motor set up. I'd be interested in a comparison of the dual vs quad motor drivetrains.
needs a locker. software has to be fine tuned given how much wheels couldnt keep up in @outofspec vids.
Wow I thought the truck was cool but there is so much more to it. Thanks Jason great video.
For towing long distances, Diesel engines still are more efficient and have superior payload. BEV trucks, make more sense to use is as a car, to the Delivery sector with short routes and working shifts. For longer distances, towing heavy loads, with fast refueling, Hybrids or Hydrogen powered trucks, would make more economical sense. Just lacking currently the proper infrastructure.
Have you seen the Toyota hydrogen cell that was released last week? I think THAT will be the future of trucking if The Powers That Be continue to vilify diesel.
To be nit picky, electric vehicles are still more "efficient" when towing, but the distance traveled is hampered due to wind resistance.
Combustion engines throw most of their energy out as heat, so towing dosen't impact distance traveled as much.
For instance, if someone created an EV with "500 mile towing range" it would be able to drive over 1000mi without a trailer".
If you had to create the energy going into each vehicle by yourself, you'd want to be charging an electric vehicle with your work, not throwing 60% of your energy away as waste heat.
I know what you mean though... Just picking at the specifics.
The entire infrastructure in the United States needs an upgrade.
"For now" is an important qualifier. Battery capacity and charging speed could be vastly different in 20 years.
Your comment makes no sense when this video had nothing to do with towing.
In theory, the quad motor setup is superior, but practically speaking, it doesn't work so well off-road. And it's not just me.... plenty of other Rivian owners have had less-than-stellar experiences with our vehicles in off-road situations. This is a case of theory beats practicality. My Jeep with a QDII 4WD is superior off-road to my Rivian, both using the same all-terrain tires.
As amazing as the content in the R1T is, the driveline is ultimately reactive, where a locked diffs/tcase system is automatic/proactive. A mechanical system doesn't need to see slip to amp up the power at the wheel with more load. For rock crawling, slip is not favorable, as you lose momentum and can dig ruts, reducing the overall available grip and creating an additional step ahead of the tire that needs to be overcome. Also, those individual motors ultimately produce a small fraction of torque to the wheels compared to a 4x4 with low-range and lockers. Having excess available torque makes it much easier to modulate and control the ascent or descent.
With that all said, the R1T's system is highly adaptable to a wide variety of driving scenarios, which is, imo, it's greatest asset. Not rock crawling, though.
Thank goodness someone said this. He was quite wrong is being dismissive of locking diffs being simply superior ultimately
As a mechanical engineer, it's been obvious for a long time that one-motor-per-wheel is the ultimate off-road (and on-road) set up. It is refreshing to see it finally happen. All of the tech shown in this video is something the big manufacturers could have easily implemented long ago if they wanted - they just aren't interested in innovation.
Unsprung weight, most users will wait for the dual motors Rivian, like Lightning to make those treacherous
trips to Home Depot
Why is unsprung weight a problem? The motors are not part of the unsprung assembly. Watch the video again at the 4:48 mark
Not Lordstown with huh motors
Torque Vector enabled Tank steering is also a cool off road trick to do.
4 motors = Real time TORQUE VECTORING 😁💪💪💪
Acura SH-AWD can torque vector with an internal combustion engine.
@@aspecreviews Not real time AWD.
Very nice explanation, these guys are on an entirely different level.
My concern, though, is that this suspension setup looks horribly expensive to maintain.
Where is the extension cord?
Sitting next to all those old jerry cans.
Hooray, more Rivian videos please!!!
One issue with an AWD system that attempts to calculate friction and limit torque. No traction, no torque and you don't move. It might work on surfaces shown in the video but in mud or ice you're stuck. Now they might have something else up their sleeve to overcome this but some times you need wheel spin and a lot of it. This might be why it can still mimic low tech 4x4.
Overthinking and making non existent problems. Put it in the appropriate mode and go. You didn't watch the whole video? Jason explained the variable slip settings. Common sense would lead you to assume they have a "near no traction" environment accounted for with the AWD system. Something that will allow the tires to spin, fight, and crawl out of a spot.
@@Sheridantank yes, I did watch the entire video but other systems have attempted a similar technique, all be it without electric motors, and have failed in real world scenarios. Will the system allow for wheels to spin at high rpm when in a near zero traction situation or will it allow a half turn of the wheel at a time trying to find grip when there is none?
I love that the simplified equation for Force = Friction * Weight is FUN
I will never understand differentials. Ever.
I would be curious to see how this works in muddy conditions.I wonder if this would perform in muddy conditions like a diesel truck. Where even though you have a excessive amount of torque and can spin the tires ,You can not spin them fast enough to clean the mud out and have good forward progress.
*Without 3 windshield wipers its worthless off road!*
It’s amazing technology.. Will also be the Holly grail when it comes to repair costs and batteries
I was surprised to see how much a wheel that was momentarily in the air continued to spin on the Rivian, considering it could easily have stopped the wheel, then applied torque again once it was back on the ground. I could see it turning slowly just so it would be able to tell when it had traction again, but it seemed like the G-Wagen did a better job with that.
Some more thoughts: the benefit of this using software to achieve all-wheel drive is it can easily be improved as real world experience is gained, and owners of the first trucks would be able to get those improvements without having to replace any hardware. Also it makes the hardware simpler since it doesn't have to transfer power around the vehicle like in a conventional truck or SUV. Downsides: software bugs could result in serious safety and/or performance issues, though hopefully enough testing has been done in enough different conditions that no major bugs remain. Also, no fail-safe. If too many sensor failures happen - and they WILL happen especially off-road, this has no basic mechanical operation to fall back to. Unless there's some sort of "limp home" mode that simply limits the power to the motors in the hopes you aren't too far from a maintained road, this is going to require a recovery vehicle. Not to mention that EVs have no equivalent of a jerry can.
Some fair points - something I think's worth pointing out though, you have four motors here. You could theoretically get home with 1, if conditions allowed. If your engine fails, you're done. Many EVs have two motors (front and rear) meaning you could still get home (or somewhere nearby to tow) if one were to fail.
Thank you Jason,
This is a very good review of many Rivian advantages and I enjoyed it thoroughly.
This is the future. Interestingly I used to play a table top game called "Car Wars". Petrol has run out, society has fallen apart. Everyone drives electric cares (fuel cells), each wheel has it's own motor. This was an idea back from the late 70s (or early 80s).
P.S how does this thing tow?
Interesting in the game! Regarding towing, it actually tows GREAT, better than ICE trucks in most ways because of the power and stability. But, for regular longer distance towing, it is much less practical due to limited range and time needed to recharge. For around town towing, say less than 125 miles and where you plug back in at home overnight, it is awesome.
@@baer19741 thank you for that. I would want it for distance towing. Given the trend away from gasoline, my next motor will probably be electric. However we tow our caravan for holidays, so not sure what we are going to do for the future, unless RVs get electrified
Best pick up on the the planet. Period 👌👍
Great video, Jason.
Over my head, but still fun to watch insanely expensive vehicles drive off road through sharp rocks.
Jason, Im confused. You say the locked diffs on the G-wagon can send 100% torque to one wheel. My understanding is a locked diff simply stops being a differential and locks split at 50% to each wheel. with the center locked, this would be 25% of transmission output torque. Sorry if I'm incorrect. Love the channel!
If all 4 wheels are turning the same speed but only one wheel has traction the only place the torque can go is to that wheel, so 100% of the torque is applied to one wheel.
@@extragoode I believe you are also confused. A vehicle with open differentials will send all available torque to the wheel up in the air and not the wheel with traction. The Torque follows the path of least resistance in this case. When the diff is locked, both the wheel with traction and the one without traction will spin at the same speed. Zero engine torque applied equals zero rotation assuming no other forces.
I've been following Rivian since I saw them on Long Way Up. Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman had two Rivian R1T trucks as the support vehicles on their trip from Ushuaia, Argentina to LA that they did on modified Harley-Davidson Livewires. Rivian actually gave them the first two prototype vehicles that they had built and literally finished them just before the trip was set to start.
Great video, and an even more great Rivian architecture and design... The one thing you glossed over just a little is that while the suspension and four motor design may have amazing capability, it is still ultimately limited by how good the software and algorithms are. I took delivery of mine about a week ago, and while I'm incredibly impressed, there definitely is room for improvement in the software. Hopefully future over-the-air updates make the AWD and suspension hardware perform at an even higher level...
I'd also really like to see actual parameter info on how things change in different modes... Having a bunch of off road modes like "rock crawl", "drift", "rally" is cool, but i'd rather see details on how they are modifying suspension, throttle, ride height, torque management, etc rather than just have a cool name.
It would be cool to have something similar to a video game, where there are different bars for the stats that show the different levels of various things.
When you said that the truck can tell what surface it's on, my mind instantly went back to programming frequency drives. The things these electric drive systems can do!
my mind was how 🤔 and if true mind blown also not sure its junky science ?
The force equation looks fun.
I just watched a video on Out of Spec Overlander where the Rivian had some trouble overcoming an obstacle whereas the Frontier with a locking differential walked over it.
The driver in that video admitted he was just learning how to drive it.
Yeah, that was frustrating to watch because the driver didn’t appear to give the Rivian sufficient juice to move the two wheels that were in full contact with the ground. I’m sure we’ll see more examples in the near future of the Rivian being tested in similar situations to see what it can do when driven the way it is intended to be driven.
As someone who loves the idea of a reliable electric truck, I hope one day to start seeing these available to regular people.
if i have money this one is my top list with the r1s
Hearing how well it rides over pot holes - I think I need one of these to drive on our Winnipeg roads
Heads on the best review Ive seen so far
congrats!!