This whole time I’ve been thinking that contact patch area was the biggest factor to rolling resistance on these new ev tires. Learned something new, thank you!
The rolling resistance is most affected by how much the tire deforms as is spins, which explains why an under-filled tire has a super high rolling resistance, as the underfilled tire spins along its flexing the sidewalls like crazy turning all the energy into heat. While the sidewalls deforming is the majority of the tire's rolling resistance, the actual tread does deform as the tire rolls too, and a wider tire is going to have more tread to squirm around under the load of the car.
I just discovered how much Engineering know-how is required to understand Anti-Rolling Resistance and importance in Case of EV. Recent Owner of Volvo XC40 Recharge, this will definitely help in deciding my next set of tyres.
@@paulblair898 correct. Most tire manufacturers round the profile to help lower rolling resistance, obviously hankook have found something a little different that works well for them!
Tire material science is actually some spy level guarded secrets. We just think some Chinese comapny can reverse engineer it like an electronic item but you realise this is way harder to replicate once to get into the process like curing time ratios temperatures pressures. even the pattern everything has to be so precise to get the optimum results.
Specifically tires, if I were ever able to nominate a single product that has the most time and money spent engineering it, which the public is mostly unaware of, I’d pick tires.
😅 and he can only talk about "general knowledge" the companies themself have a massive arsenal of know-how. Especially how different treatments will significantly change the properties of the resulting. Only view changes in the bare rubber, steel, and nylon(plastic) parts are actually made. If possible they try to meet the design criteria with identical material but tweak it to its needs.
The pitch sequence has been a part of tire noise reduction for more than 80 years from my experience, maybe much longer. In the 70’s I wrote a heuristic Fourier analysis computer program that sought to optimize the spread of frequencies and obtain white tire noise. It may still be in use today.
It is fascinating to learn that EVs have added new dimensions to tire design requirements. I tend to buy used cars. With my first car, I learned the importance of good and "healthy" tires for comfort, reliability and safety. Ever since, the first thing I replace on my new used care is old, worn or cheap no-name brand tires. And I always replace them with brand new high quality tires from a reputable brand... usually Michelin. FWIW: I think this is the best tire "infomercial" I have ever watched. This definitely raised my awareness of Hankook tires without making it *feel* like an infomercial. Thanks for that.
I used Michelin. I prefer Bridgestone, but I drive a 206 (975 kg). I guess it's different with an EV, but no way I buy a two tons car. These things have to go on a diet.
Interesting idea to randomise the Tread Pattern. I remember when Apple started doing that in their Macbooks to lower the perceived noise of the cooling fans. Varying blade lengths in the fan had the same effect as with this tyre.
Neither Apple nor Hankook invented the randomize patterns though. Theses tricks are quite old. Edit: First patent for "randomized" tire pattern was as early as 1935. In 1994 the "randomization" was greatly improved. Puting it in quote marks, because actually the pattern is specifically tuned to create a non-peaking sound profile.
@@AdriandeMorcerf pcs? I am not a native English speaker, what does the abbreviation mean? I watched Andrew Lam's video on tires, I think all tire companies do it nowadays
As an engineer, I appreciate your emphasis on using the right component design characteristics for the specific system requirements. A designed system is so much more than the sum of its component specs.
Or less, depending on the quality of the design. As an engineer I am sometimes embarrassed by some of the exceptionally crappy crap I am forced to deal with. Especially when you can look at the stuff and about half the time and see where three cents spent at one point in the design could have made the device actually function for more than five minutes. This design requirement of maximizing the rate of landfill accumulation really needs to stop. And NO, it wasn't always this way, which you will know if you are older.
@@foppo100 huh? no - just noting that there are too many spec warriors out there who will look at and hype up one particular quality while overlooking how well or how poorly a given system performs as a whole system.
As you can see, when we position ourselves 5ft from party guest Becky, the noise level increases by 10dB, impressive... For every foot we move away from Becky, the dB level decreases by 1. What can we conclude from this observation? Becky talks too loudly. Thanks for watching.
I also learned from my Y that that foam inside the tire makes the ride not feel very even when the wheels are cold until they’ve had a time to warm up. You rarely feel it in the summer but winter it can take 20-30 minutes to warm up and feel smooth.
This is an old comment but I have to say it’s weird to see you here talking about car tires and not Pokémon or Zelda. What tires would Hankook engineer for the Master Cycle Zero?
That does sound like a pain, but is it worth the trade off for the volume dampening? Also sounds like a relative nonissue for areas that don’t have winter
Tires in my lifetime have come a very long way. My first set.... bias ply road tires! Awesome to see the levels of performance and safety go hand in hand.
Tire is the most important and most complex part on the car. On a tight track a Prius on the best race tires is gonna beat a Ferrari on summer street tires.
Tires are INCREDIBLY important to a cars handling and performance. One of the big reasons modern cars are handling so well is due to the advancements in tire technology. To put it into perspective: A 2020 Civic Type R has a better lap time than a 2010 Gallardo, where the tires contributed about 50%.
@@xXYannuschXx yeah i know there have been huge advancements in design but this video kinda brought home to me the way all the various engineering disciplines involved -- materials science of the compounds used, mechanical design of tread and sipe patterns and for loading and acoustic characteristics, aerodynamics just to name a few -- all work together. Of course it has to be like that but he is just so good at making complicated stuff easy to understand that it helped me think about it all more holistically. See the big picture in a way I'd not even thought about before. That's what I meant.
Then along comes the group that lobbies for the need for a car to make noise so the sight impaired can sense en electric vehicle sending engineers to the rubber room.
I race electric race cars, 3 weeks ago I drove the NASA “25 Hours of Thunderhill” and I wish tire manufacturers made tires optimized for EV race cars, a 10% reduction in rolling resistance could easily have allowed us to go one more lap between battery swaps. Great video, excellent summary of the design tradeoff challenges! In an EV race car wind noise predominates, my car is an open cockpit, so a small change in windscreen angle and and different helmet made a big difference, and then I could really hear the tires, which is great for the driver to be able to hear what the tires are “saying” at the limits of grip. Oh, also, you are right about summer tires vs all-season, make the switch to summer tires when the weather allows, you won’t regret it.
@@paulyang7067 typical summer tires have softer rubber compound that gives more grip and dissipates heat better than an all-season tire (which also means it will wear faster) and the tread pattern will have shallower grooves, usually with a center section that is continuous around the entire tire so there is a bigger contact patch. As far as efficiency, rolling resistance comes from deformation of the tire. A tire that has zero rolling resistance would be totally stiff, not compressing at all, and the contact patch would be a single straight line across the tread, not the rectangle of the real world. A solid metal train wheel with its metal tire comes close to this ideal. The more a tire “squishes” flat (giving a bigger contact patch) the higher the rolling resistance. It’s a geometry thing, not a rubber thing; rolling resistance comes from the energy required to move the rubber from the front of the contact patch to the back of the contact patch. All else being equal (which it never is) more grip means more rolling resistance; lower tire pressure means more rolling resistance; wheel/tire combos with smaller overall diameter means more rolling resistance. Also, the more mass, especially in the tread, of the tire, the more rolling resistance, all else being equal (but a tire that is more stiff may have more mass, but the reduction in rolling resistance from more stiffness may overcome the higher rolling resistance from the increased mass). I’m not the clearest at explaining things, hopefully this helps but if you have more questions please feel free.
@@jpe1 Thank you for putting in the time to elaborate. Could you please expand on why lower diameter tires have more rolling resistance? Even with rotational inertia taken into account, it seems counterintuitive to me that a larger diameter would reduce rolling resistance
@@shootinbruin3614 I think I muddied the waters there! The problem is that I said “all else being equal” but that is very confusing when talking about overall diameter, because there are two elements that go into the overall diameter of the wheel/tire combination: the diameter of the wheel and the height of the tire sidewall… which is being kept “equal”? the *ratio* of wheel diameter to tire sidewall height, or the *absolute* tire sidewall height (or weirdly, wheel diameter could be kept the same…)? When I wrote my original comment I was imagining the ratio of wheel diameter to sidewall height would be kept the same, thus the wheel with the smaller diameter will have a tire that is proportionally distorting more (assuming equal pressure) but sidewall height usually remains the same when going to larger or smaller diameter overall diameter. (This is further confused because when upsizing or downsizing wheel/tire combos _for a particular car_ then the overall diameter is usually kept the same, to keep handling consistent and speedometers correct). When talking about a performance wheel/tire package, a 13” wheel might be mounted with a 185/60R13 tire, which has a sidewall height of 111mm; 15” wheel gets a 225/50R15 sidewall 112mm, a 17” wheel might have 275/40R17, sidewall 110mm; and a 19” wheel, 315/35R19, sidewall height 110mm. Of course one can select different section widths and aspect ratios that would still be “performance” tires yet would give very different tire sidewall heights, which is kinda my point, that I oversimplified and swept some messy details under the rug when I said “all else being equal.” Really, to consider rolling resistance for a given size wheel, the tire to be mounted is critical to determining if rolling resistance would go up or down, and the more I think about it, no generalization can be made, I shouldn’t have implied that it’s a simple relationship. In the 8 years I have been driving the EVSR electric race car, we have tried wheels as small as 13” and as large as 15”, and used different section width and different aspect ratio tires, and of course different rubber compounds, and with all that, we have never tried to optimize rolling resistance because other considerations of grip and tire wear end up taking precedence. We have settled on a 15”x7” custom-forged wheel from Braid, with 205/50R15 tires. Usually when racing on a dry track we use either Toyo RAs or Hoosier SM7s. Toyos have slightly less absolute grip but less rolling resistance and higher top speed, although the tradoff between grip and top speed means that lap times are similar, depending on the track one tire might have a slight edge over the other. Personally I don’t like the Hoosiers because they tend to accumulate rubber “balls” in slower-speed corners and those don’t always scrub off on the high-speed sweepers. You can go to evsr. Net for more info.
Unless you're driving on snow or ice, put about 10-15% more air pressure in the tires than the tire manufacturer says you should, voila you got stiffer tires that wears slower, reduces your consumption and improves handling. The only real down side is slightly more noise, but it's well worth it in my opinion. Make sure to check and adjust the pressure if the temperature changes a lot through the season. Never go for the cheapest option tires, read reviews and buy known brands. Tires are, next to your brakes, the most important parts of your car. Old, worn tires or bad quality hard rubber tires may save you a little money right now, but the cost could be huge later. For my car and tires the adviced pressure is about 44 psi, I use 50, and I've been doing that for years. I have 30 years of experience driving, and I am a professional driver licensed to drive anything on the road.
The real downside is that you have a smaller contact patch, meaning you have significantly less traction. Worse braking results. Purposely making your car's braking worse is the stupidest thing anyone can do.
@@e-curb I'd like to see proof of the practical effect of that. In my experience, what you lose in braking (if anything at all), you gain from increased control in case of an evasive maneuver.
The tech in tires is one of the most under-appreciated things ever. This really highlights how much thought goes into the design of a tire and _why_. Very cool ideas from Hankook on the Ion.
Awesome video! I'm currently working on my "pre-scientific" paper for my highschool finals. It's about optimizing for rolling resistance for passenger vehicles up to 3.5 tons by variation of compounds and tread. This videos has summed up lots of useful knowledge I've aquired so far!
@@ancient1946 Yes, it does but how would you tell? Tyres are actually very subjective. Until you test one on a drum with a consistent measured temperature, speed and coefficient of friction it's hard to tell who has done better.
Hankook has come a long way. In my opinion they are one of the most bang for a buck tyres. I have bought 3 sets of studded winter tyres (iPike RS2) and 2 sets of summer tyres (ventus s1 evo3) and I'm very pleased with what I get for my money. Tyre tests show that, too.
Great video, thanks for all the info. I got the all season version and did a 8,916 mile (286 Wh/mi) cross county road trip in moonbeam (2021 Model Y LR). I have to say the tires are great. On a good pavement very smooth and quiet. Good performance in rain and snow (less than one inch was the only storm I faced). Looking forward to seeing how they hold up with more miles.
I’m a service advisor at a Honda dealer and tires fascinate me. I am typically among the top three tire sales leaders on my service drive. I love learning about tires so I can give the best advice. We don’t service any EVs yet because Honda hasn’t released one mass market, but I know the day is coming. Thanks for the deep dive on EV tires!
Great video, I've tested something very similar a little more in depth with an etron and found exactly the same. But not all tire companies thing the seperate product range is correct, some are just making all their new tired "ev ready". I'm not yet sure which is the correct approach.
1. They're stiffer overall to account for the bigger weight (Rubber Compound, Sidewalls) . The contact patch is bigger to make up for harder rubber (which has less grip). 2. Rolling Efficiency - Rubber Compound makes largest difference. (up to 10% difference). 3. Noise - Tires have sound absorbing foam inside. Pattern in grooves break up sound. Varying block patterns to distribute noise over several frequencies, instead of one loud one.
Thank you so much for helping me find my long lost SPL meter! I knew I had placed it somewhere and this video was instrumental in helping me find it again. Now I have the data to prove to my wife that our Tesla isn’t actually noisier 😊
Back in 1981 a guy from BG Goodrich came to our high school auto shop class and showed us one of the first Comp T/A tires ever made. He did a real deep dive on tires for us and I specifically remember him talking about the randomized tread blocks to reduce noise. Not a new idea. I really like the foam insert to reduce noise and wish all tires had that.
Your video is an interesting tutorial on tire technology. You had one small error about noise ratios. The decibel scale is a logarithmic power ratio: 10 x log10 (power 2 / power 1) . That means a noise power ratio of 2 is equivalent to 3 dB, since 10 x log10( 2) = 3.01 . Similarly, a noise power ratio of 8 is equivalent to 9 dB, since 10 x log10( 8 ) = 9.03 .
Ya. I was about to see if my Engineering degree was wrongly awarded to me. Great! At least there is some engineers here. I agree with you. Every 3 DB is double the noise "strength.
Yes, but our ears respond logarithmically too. When people subjectively judge one sound to be 'about twice as loud' as another, the measured difference is generally about 10db.
Good in depth on the differences between EV and ICE tyres. The rolling resistance was surprising. Kudos to Hankook for sharing some info on this subject. In my experience with their truck tyres they are as good as Michelin's for grip and wear. Lots more to EV tyres than I considered.I don't mind an infomercial type presentation especially when it is not a blatant plug and you actually learn some good stuff like this.
You’re absolutely correct about Hankook’s truck tires. Until recent times, I was the owner of a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 pickup truck with the 5.9 L Turbodeisel engine with the 4-door extra cab. I bought it new and for the 20 years I owned the truck, I ran Hankook’s 10 ply M&S tire on the truck for the last 12 of those years. The truck came with set of Michelins (and I replaced them with the same Michelins when I wore out the OEM supplied set) to which the Hankooks were spec equivalents or better. Compared to the Michelins, the Hankooks lasted a bit longer and cost about 65% to 70% of what the Michelins cost; yet I got the same kind of performance, reliability and a 25% increase in longevity per set of Hankooks as compared to Michelins. The Michelins are good tires. The Hankooks are great tires.
Semi-drivers who know well about tyres say hankooks are very good tyres. But since they done years they've been increasing prices up to being considered premium now as well, not as much as the Michelins but not far
I have seen your in depth engineering videos on normal tires and was fairly familiar with the technology and engineering principles, but never imagined how much more needed to be invested in development of EV tires. Another amazing video. Thank you!
I am about due for new tires on my Tesla Model X, this video has changed my mind about what tire I was going to buy. Thanks for explaining what and why EV tires should be used on a EV.
Hopefully you're not in the US because I still can't find any EV specific tires sold here. There's the old Ecopias and a couple models that are marketed as "more" efficient, but little else. Nokians are a notable exception for winter tires, but a lot of dealers still don't carry them.
Me too, I have a model X in Australia and find the noise from the tyres creates a high and low pitch noise which is very annoying. I don’t know if anyone else experiences this phenomenon. How many kilometres have you managed with the original tyres? I am coming up to 60,000km.
What tires did you end up getting? What has been your experience so far? I'm a Model Y owner, at 40,300 miles on my original Continental ProContact RX rated for 40,000 and still some 2 mm tread left above the inbuilt indicator. So I'd definitely be interested in your response
@@ArmageddonIsHere I went and bought the Hankook EV tire for my X. So far I love them, have about 10,000 miles on them, just looked, I have a little over 8,000 miles. They are extremely quiet on the road, have excellent grip in the rain, living in Arizona don't get snow, so can't say how that would be, but I think they would be fine. They have a long mileage warranty that the other tire manufacturers didn't have. I got them at Discount Tire, they didn't stock them but got them in the next day once ordered. I like them so much will install Hankook tires on my Cadillac when they are due for replacement. Look for any discount coupons from Hankook, they sometimes have sales. Thanks for asking my opinion.
Id say I already got a pretty good understanding of physics so I can think of a lot of things concerning cars and acceleration and stuff but this dude is just it, he kills it. I always learn something new from him
Overall, this is very helpful. One minor, inconsequential quibble: if the variation in block width is random, then it can't be optimized. If it's optimized, it can't be random. It would be more precise to say that the variation in tread block width is optimized to reduce sound.
I don't think that's entirely correct. He measured the thread block separation, and after two measures concluded it was randomized. I'm sure, it was not an empirical statement, he probably was informed by the company. The thing is, the thread block measurement doesn't go from minus to plus infinite, it has boundaries set. You can set a boundary measurement that goes from 18mm to 22mm, randomly and infinitely. We don't even know the degree of precision in the manufacturing process (18.2, 22.1, 19.5,...). The set up of a boundary measurment is in fact a form of optimization, that I would guess is tied to the rotatory frquency of the wheel, concerning the circumference of the wheel and the speed at which the rotation generates a degree of vibration that significantly translates into noise (audible, that is) thru the whole chain of contact between the car and the road surface. The whole point of it is to turn the surface of the tire into a mechanical diffuser, so the constructive interference of the vibratory frequencies gets nullified, ideally for all frequencies. So in the end, the pattern needs to be randomized, but the boundary limits of it needs to be optimized (the former parameter acting on the dynamics of the tire, the later being applied to the static boundaries of human auditory system). I'm guessing this is the point of him saying they can be "optimized for SOUND reduction", because there are plenty of inaudible vibrations for which they could be optimized in order to reduce the mechanical wearing of the car, but maybe that form of optimization is not as significant as the one which reduces the psychological wearing of the driver exposed to excesive noise. Or maybe it's simply the more effective way of marketing the perks of a superiorly design, more expensive product: thru perceived confort.
I often ride my bike on a path that parallels E470 on Denver's east side. The average speed of vehicles on this road is probably 80-85 mph (the 75 mph limit is just a suggestion in CO, as are red lights). So, to me the noise you hear external to the car is first tire noise followed by closely by wind noise. On most stock cars in reasonably good condition, you barely hear the engine noise. And with all the SUVs and 4wd pickups sporting aggressive tires, tire noise is really bad along our roads.
This past summer I changed my tires on my truck for a road trip to western Colorado from eastern Missouri. The Michelin defenders were much quieter, and gave me a 3 mpg boost with ac on at 75 mph. Mid 20 mpg until we started the climb.
Actually hankook is wrong. According to the EU ACEA tires are now like 80% of a vehicles noise. They actually noticed that rolling in Neutral with the engine off the tires made up almost all the exterior noise in -db
I just got the Audi e-tron, the quietest cabin on the market with dual pane acoustic glass and lots of acoustic treatment or sound deadening material everywhere because it is so quiet I love it, the quietness calms my Aspergers. And the rest of the car is just as awesome, I hope you can test drive one and put it on your show.
I have to call bs on the weight thing cause my BMW i3s weigh's about the same as a gas car like a ford focus before they were discontinued or a Honda civic for the same car but the range extender removed from the car the weight thing is why Tesla's are so good at getting their drivers into more car accidents more often due to weighing a whole lot more and this is important if you are considering an ev other then what tesla offers as they tend to be lighter then Tesla's offerings and thus in an emergency will stop faster in a short distance due to having weight and therefor less mass and momentum to stop
@Raven4K Tires have varying load carrying capacity based on application, so you can't compare the weight of your vehicle to a Ford focus because the wheel base is different between those cars, therefore the load carrying capacity on your wheels, I can garuntee,, is different when compared to a civic or focus. Although the weight is similar, the BMW i3 is both higher, and shorter lengthwise, than a civic or a focus, so the weight distribution on all 4 tires is different . It looks like the i3s uses an XL tire which is meant to carry more weight than a common passenger tire.
@@raven4k998 yeah, i kinda want an electric car, but I don't want a tesla. In my family we switch cars for a brand new ones each 3 years and ive gotten new one bit over a year ago so i still have 2 more years with this one, but 1 will be switched this year and 2 more next year. Maybe we will pick one ev to try out, but we borrowed skoda eniaq to test out and it was bad, looks terrible, has worse acceleration than my daily car and is limited to 160kmh. Maybe when its time to switch mine, there will be some nice options already. My requirements for an ev are: max speed over 250kmh, 0-100 around 3 seconds, range of at least 700km and it cant be a tesla cuz Musk xd, it has to also have good stability in corners as i like to drive fast on small roads, and heavy cars usually struggle with that. I also don't want a daily car thats over 50k$ as people here are morons and cant park properly so its extremely likely that someone will wreck your car so i would be scared to park an expensive car here, even tho its insured. I wouldn't ever take the jaguar or the sportscar my family has to the capital city to have it parked near my flat. My sister has had her car crashed into 4 times while parked near her flat and also intentionally scratched by a key in just 1 week lol. Also its usually quite cold here, sometimes -30Celsius which ev dont seem to enjoy so i might have to stick to gasoline. Also the charging is really bad as I don't want to spend over an hour charging it during my drive. In the capital city where i live with my gf, its close to impossible to charge it outside of a gas station and charging it in my garage where i sometimes park would take ages. Its also 20 minutes away from my flat so i park there only when i dont need the car. So i might buy an ev in the future, but i will never buy a tesla, even if it was the only car maker in the world. I would rather travel around on bike than to give Musk my money honestly
Dude I been watching your videos for about 5 years, and man my brain hurts yet I'm so intrigued. I've always wanted to be an engineer, but that never happened lol. Yet I still watch all our videos!!!! Thanks for making these.
I have bought a lot of tires in my life, but I have never seen rolling resistance specified, but I'd sure like to see it based on your analysis, thanks.
Almost no tire manufacturers release RR specs. The only reason I can conceive of why is because it'd make comparing models too easy for the consumer. The only real RR numbers I've found were in consumer reports tests from about a decade ago and the only tire they tested that's still produced is the Ecopia, but it's been revised a couple times since then, so it's not accurate either. The closest thing you're likely to find is the EU fuel efficiency rating, which will be at least proportional to RR. I think there's even a scale out there somewhere that equates an A rating with .006 or less RR or something, but I'm not sure how accurate that is. The next problem is trying to buy a US tire with an EU efficiency rating of A since most manufacturers sell different models in the US or the US version doesn't have the same specs as the EU version.
Yeah, I don't think we have a label for it in the US, but the EU has a label for it if you can find a similar tire. Their ranking is from A-E, which has a corresponding coefficient of rolling resistance. This site provides the ranges for the 5 different letter grades: www.tire-reviews.com/Article/EU-Tire-Label-Current-status-and-challenges.htm
Great video, but as a owner of a Kona EV I can tell you the original tires were pretty much dangerous in the cold and wet up here in the Pacific Northwest.. I put a set of Michelin cross climate 2 on the car and the difference in wet and light snow was exponentially better. However I do get about 20 - 30 miles less on a full charge but we’ll worth it. I would like to see how these tires compare to a tire like the cross climate 2 in the wet and light snow.
Exact same thing with the original tires on our Chevy Bolt here in Colorado. The original tires are almost worthless and certainly dangerous on snow and ice.
Summer tires are bad in cold and snow? Huh. They really ought to give these different kinds of tires names that make it super obvious to everyone what conditions they are expected to be used in. 😐
@@mjc0961Factory tires tend to be the cheapest tires the car manufacturer can buy as long as they meet minimum, (and I mean minimum), requirements. ICE cars suffer the same issues when new. The factory tires very often tend to not be very capable in any season in less than dry conditions no matter the season.
For me the biggest concern regarding tires (for most vehicles) is performance in inclement conditions, rain, snow, ice and any combination there of. I must have confidence in my tires during these conditions, or I can't control the vehicle when I need to most. The other factors you bring up are all gravy (granted the economy one is a big deal for my ev and probably my truck too), the only thing that matters is do I have traction when everyone else doesn't (because they are the biggest hazard in inclement conditions)... I don't understand why more people do not seem to prioritize this like I do, we don't all live in Florida and even if we did, the drivers suck and wet pavement is pretty common... Regardless, all this talk sounds great, but without independent real world testing, it's all marketing wankateering. It's definitely got my interest but I need to see how they stack up on a Consumer reports type testing before I'll pull the trigger
I am similarly "fun at parties" 🙂 , but seriously found your presentation most informative. Explaining very technical things in a simple manner is an art. Well done, and thanks.
Well put together presentation! Learned some great information. To compare that particular tire to the one that Tesla selected for that vehicle wheel size specifically, the OEM suggested wheel. And tire. When I used to work at Tesla I know that an absolutely insane amount of work went into developing tires that were purpose-built for their cars to get the best of range and comfort and all the other things like you just covered.
We have a June 2020 Model S LR+. The original tires were the 19" Good Year. I got great efficiency, 237 Wh/mi. I thought they were a bit noisy, with laggy handling. They only lasted 26,902 miles. Discount tire almost wouldn't let me leave the store with two tires at 2/32" and two at 3/32" (no snow here). I replaced them with Michelin Primacy MXM4 All Season, a Tesla approved tire. So far in only a few hundred miles I am wowed by the quiet and improved handling and ride. Too early to tell on the efficiency. Comments?
When I had the Chevy Bolt I gave up a few miles of overall range when I changed from the OEM tire to Nokian WR G4, but had so much better traction in wet and the winter. Well worth it. Easier to maximize tire efficiency for folks that live somewhere with no seasons.
I have the Hancook EV tires on my ID.4. I have to say, they have been great, 40k on them and they still look and ride great. By far the longest I’ve had a tire last on an EV.
I'm glad you are doing some recent EV stuff as now I've discovered your other EV videos just in time for me getting an EV. Throwing down for one in less than a year.
I noticed the tread pattern differences a few years ago. I always wondered why would tire companies intentionally did that. I knew it could not be a production mistake. Thanks for all the info!
Some of them have less thread depth too so they don't last as long as are more expensive. I'm putting Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S on my EV once my current, awful grip, Continental EcoContact 6 wear out.
I agree...went with performance tire with XL rating for this reason after 15K miles on factory tires. They absolutely suck in the rain. I really didn't mind giving up range for what is basically safety.
Great video. I have a Camry hybrid and it comes with 235/45R18 tires. I would like to go to 215/55R17 (allowed according to manual). My goal is slightly better ride and lower cost. I also worry about vulnerability of the lower profile tires to damage from minor road hazards. I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions you can offer.👍
Ive had them for a month and put 500 miles on them. I've driven 130,000 miles on the S in total and these blow away the michelin MXM4's I had. Hankook has a winner and they are going to sell alot of these! I just uploaded a short review
Recently ran into issues with this when one of my front Bolt tires developed a concerning looking lump. None of the local shops carried EV tires, and my dad (a mechanic in his younger days) kept trying to get me to buy the wrong tires. Turns out, he wasn't the only one- I later discovered that the dealership who had sold me the car put the wrong tires on two years ago! I was wondering for literal years why my efficiency/range was around 30% lower than what it should be and after ordering new, proper tires into Costco now I know why
Would be awesome to see a comparison between the normal and EV tyres. Really want to see the difference in stopping distance between the two. Amazing to see tyre tech develop like this. Simplest and cheapest upgrade you can do !!!
I asked them about this - you can still plug it like you would normally with a nail or something (from the outside). Specifically they said no problem with seal-type repairs, but liquid-type repair kit is not suitable, and that it's an issue they're working on.
Hmm, since many (most?) EVs don't come with a spare tire and only a sealant/inflator for limping back for repairs, that sort of makes the foam inserts a non-starter for many (most?) EV owners. Between this issue and unavailability, I guess I'll stick with Ecopia or equivalents in 6 months when I have to replace our Niro's tires.
@@alejandrovieira6451 You know, that's a very interesting point. For my car, it comes from the factory with tires that have the foam, and yet they also sell the liquid sealing kits, so it makes you wonder if that works at all...
As far as I know a tire repair shop can cut away part of the foam, make space for the mushroom plug, and glue in the temporarily removed foam. The tire and wheel always gets rebalanced after the repair. But spray in foam will always ruin any tire, again, as far as I know... A spare tire remains golden to carry at all times!
Please don't get me wrong, it's a fascinating and well explained subject as always. But I tend to distrust things that sound too perfect. What are the drawbacks if you change the compound or overall construction of the tire?
As a Honda Clarity plug-in hybrid owner, and Uber driver, I loved this video! When I'm in ECO (battery) mode my tires seem VERY noisy. But when I'm in hybrid mode the sound of my engine seems deafening. It's all relative.
Hi Jason. I noticed you've blurred the wheel center caps. Are these the same wheels you installed a few years ago, so you could take advantage of the smaller diameter (not available on your performance model) and thus, the taller sidewall and its comfort? Back then, you showed the brand, but not today. Why?
If you look closely you can see the blurring on the hood as well. Basically Jason is trying to avoid copyright/legal trouble with Tesla or even more likely RUclipss random algorithms that could see the logo and maybe do some kind of automated demonetization. The platform isn't what it used to be and its little things like this that show it.
Technically speaking you're not allowed to show copyright logos in sponsored content (there's some variance, but you'll notice this with my previous videos as well). The wheels are T-Sportline, the caps have Tesla logos (not the T-Sportline logo).
Can you make an EV tires comparison video? Stack against each other Michelin EV specific, Conti Econcontact, GoodyearElectricDrive, etc. And then one non-EV i.e. ContiExtremeContact or some regular Michelin Pilor Sport. p.s. my guess is hat Michelin and continental will blow Hankook's out of the water. I'd also guess regular ContiExtreme Contacts are as good or better than the Hankook EV tires. I did search for one of these videos, but couldn't find any. Probably nobody made one yet.
I just bought a set of used tires from the shop. They told me they were Michelins but what I didn’t know was that they were Michelin EV tires. My car is a gas car but so far I’m loving these tires. Super quiet and the car coasts really really well
A lot more to these tires than I'd imagined. I'm about to replace mine, and had planned on going with the same Michelin EV tires, but I'll have to give these a closer look. Thanks.
My e-golf is about 400 lbs heavier than the ICE golf (depending on trim). I've found EV tires are ROUGH for the e-golf because of the stiffness and the noise is noticeable. It would be interesting to see the difference between ICE cars that have EV trims and purpose-built EVs. I think there is a gray area there.
Car tires are only very slightly more aerodynamic because they're thinner. That's not the main efficiency gain of thin tires tho, it's rolling resistance (or static rolling friction). The aerodynamics of the wheels is a relatively small percentage of the frontal area and skin so making them smaller to this end is not effective especially when balanced itwith the downsides. However the rolling resistance reduction is pretty huge so the tradeoff between efficiency and maneuverability becomes more attractive
Very good info. I had never thought about how EV cars have different tire requirements. One suggestion though. 0.002 isn't "oh point oh oh two." It's "zero point zero zero two." O is a letter and 0 is a number. I thought you would want to know and please keep making your good videos.
I have noticed something about rolling efficiency over my more than 50 years of driving and that is my car rolls far better going down hill then going up a hill, also fuel economy changes drastically going up compared to going down, it's why I plan my trips in a way that I only go down hill to my destination and never go North as North is all up hill on my Globe of the world. This is why we should always listen to our older members of society as we pick up these tid bits from just being around for so long :)
@@CarlosGutierrez-qw6pr Of course. In a proper analysis one tries to include all costs. Engine oil & filters, transmission filters, fuel filters, air filters, transfer case oil, engine valve adjustment, timing belt replacement (plus water pump, tensioners & coolant), spark plugs, drive belts, etc. Lease folks won't care about most of this.
@Tron Jockey Yes , my exhaust pipe on my 2007 Dodge had a hole in it so I just put a cut up soup can with a pair of hose clamps over it. Works like a charm. Stealership, no thanks. Lucky my trusted Kona EV never has any problems.
I think our Ioniq 5 came with Michelin Primacy All Season, not specially an EV tire. We only have around 19k miles on them but they still look nearly new so I would expect 40-50k miles on them. The Ioniq 5 tires may last longer because from a stop it always starts with AWD powering all 4 wheels, than as you get 15-20mph with no wheel slip it will disengage the front drive. I have heard that having the foam insert makes them not repairable or at least more difficult.
im watching this in at night with my door open and the audio from your voice pierces the air throught my whole house. Youve got a great voice, just recommend hooking up a mic or investing in a better microphone and talk with a relaxed tone.
Still waiting for electric cars to be practical and affordable over here lol. I also wonder how they hold up in -30C here in Canada. The tires grip, the battery range and lifespan, and other components in the long term.
@@EpicDrew15 When people talk about this I always remind them that it still started and went. How often do ICE cars refuse to start at all in that cold of temperatures?
@@extragoode unless you're driving a 15 year old car with a poor battery your car will almost always start no matter how cold. I've never had trouble starting a car in the winter since the cars started to use computer control fuel injection. At least you can usually get your old ICE started with jumper cables. You don't have to worry about that with 15 year old EVs because they will be scrapped at 10 years when the drive battery fails.
@@jimfarmer7811 correct, ALMOST always. Lots of cars start in the cold, but some don't sometimes and that one time that it won't start is a bigger deal than the 1000 times it did start like you expected it to. My point was simply that there's nothing to start, no big burst of energy made more difficult by low temperatures, in an EV. You just turn it on and drive. The age of the car has much less to do with it than the cold cranking amps it's engine requires to start. An older car that's lost a little compression might even require less CCAs. Still, almost every manufacturer recommends replacing the lead acid starter battery every 3 years, Nissan even recommended I replace the lead battery in my LEAF after 3 years. Why? Because after 3 years of use they MIGHT not have enough CCAs to start the engine. I don't follow recommendations on starter batteries though and I've had some that last 6 or 7 years. Because I stretch the starter battery as long as I can I've had lots of ICE's refuse to start in less cold temps than -30C, I even had a lead battery in my LEAF die on me after 8 years, but that was in the summer. When I don't adhere to the recommendations, that's my fault and I wouldn't do it if I didn't know what I was doing, but you can't tell me that everybody else is driving around with less than 3 year old batteries. Batteries aren't even covered under most warranties, because they're considered a wear item, like brakes and tires. My LEAFs 10th birthday is in about a month and the drive battery hasn't failed, so I have no intention of scrapping it. There have been battery failures, but remember, it's only been since about the time fuel injection became popular that cars were expected to go more than 100k miles, especially domestic US brands. So in their first decade EVs are more reliable than ICEs that had been manufactured for most of a century.
@@extragoode I buy my cars and drive them until they get delivered to the scrap yard. I've never had any problems with the engines and transmissions in any of the cars I've bought in my life. For example a chevy cavalier that I owned went 230,000 with only minor maintenance. In fact I never changed the plugs or the transmission fluid for the whole life of the car. Everything still worked when I scrapped it out. It still had the original muffler. The only reason I scrapped it was my son ran over curb and destroyed the front suspension.
@@jimfarmer7811 how much gas did you put through your example? And how many times did you change the oil? I had an 83 Marquis station wagon that was junked at 120k miles miles because the heater coil went out and blew the coolant all over the windshield. It wasn't worth fixing because it was 15 years old, had bad brakes, old tires, and only got about 18mpg. My 94 S10 was sold for parts when it was 20 years old and only had 160k miles on it because I hit a deer with it. Most interference engines require a timing belt replacement every 60k-100k miles which costs $1000 -2000 or else the engine will eventually kill itself. Some people have Tesla's that have gone 230k miles on the original battery too. Most cars aren't the best deal ever and most aren't the worst deal ever either, but there's no way to know until long after the deal is done. For me, I'm lazy and prefer the no oil changes or stops at the gas station. The fact that it costs less per mile to drive than my 250cc motorcycle is just bonus. I wish you continued luck with your ICE vehicles as the least wasteful thing to do is keep driving the car you already have as long as you can.
Great overview of what goes into a tire for an EV. It's a shame that (as of late December 2022) these are unobtanium. Unless you care to share your supplier with all of us? 😉
he probably knows the most direct suppliers at this point, some dont sell direct to public, only to trade, some of those will sell to certain individuals knowing its a personal purchase even though the person could be claiming 'well its for a video on youtube'.
A good thing that sound levels get more focus on electric car tires. Living in Norway, where we have a very high ratio of electric cars, I have observed that electric cars driving at 50-80km/h have a consistently higher overall noise level than diesel/petrol cars when heard from the side of the road. Seeing as many people live next to roads and are already bothered by road noise, the growth of electric car sales and their noisy stock tires have actually been a real setback since car noise level regulations are usually based on exhaust/engine sound alone. Looking forward to your summer tire review and hope to see a non-EV tire comparison on the same car, focusing on grip and brake distance since most stock EV-tires have comparatively low scores towards non-EV tires.
Nice video. I drive a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR and changed from stock Continentals at 45K to Michelin CrossClimate2. I noticed about a 10% drop in efficiency and on research discovered the concept of rolling resistance. My next set I will definitely be researching a bit more before making a choice and rolling resistance will be a big factor.
Never got super interested in EVs. Don't much think about tires and functionality with different vehicles. Still stayed around to watch a video about EV car tires. 👍
A deep dive into a subject I thought I knew a tiny bit about thanks to growing up in a motorsports family, but it turns out I knew far less, I got lost in this it was straight up *fascinating*
This whole time I’ve been thinking that contact patch area was the biggest factor to rolling resistance on these new ev tires. Learned something new, thank you!
Humble and amazing. Keep on being awesome MKBHD
The rolling resistance is most affected by how much the tire deforms as is spins, which explains why an under-filled tire has a super high rolling resistance, as the underfilled tire spins along its flexing the sidewalls like crazy turning all the energy into heat.
While the sidewalls deforming is the majority of the tire's rolling resistance, the actual tread does deform as the tire rolls too, and a wider tire is going to have more tread to squirm around under the load of the car.
I just discovered how much Engineering know-how is required to understand Anti-Rolling Resistance and importance in Case of EV.
Recent Owner of Volvo XC40 Recharge, this will definitely help in deciding my next set of tyres.
@@paulblair898 correct. Most tire manufacturers round the profile to help lower rolling resistance, obviously hankook have found something a little different that works well for them!
Tire material science is actually some spy level guarded secrets. We just think some Chinese comapny can reverse engineer it like an electronic item but you realise this is way harder to replicate once to get into the process like curing time ratios temperatures pressures. even the pattern everything has to be so precise to get the optimum results.
So much more engineering involved in our daily products than people generally realize. Good stuff.
True.
And watching these videos helps one to value stuff a lot more.
Specifically tires, if I were ever able to nominate a single product that has the most time and money spent engineering it, which the public is mostly unaware of, I’d pick tires.
They're all black and round.
Most things were aspects you'd see in the mold so it's no real cost added when you consider volume production. And that foam is dirt cheap.
😅 and he can only talk about "general knowledge" the companies themself have a massive arsenal of know-how. Especially how different treatments will significantly change the properties of the resulting. Only view changes in the bare rubber, steel, and nylon(plastic) parts are actually made. If possible they try to meet the design criteria with identical material but tweak it to its needs.
I hope Hankook wrote you a big fat check, this was the best marketing I’ve seen for these tires anywhere.
Ya looks like it's not out yet landing ion page doesn't work from canada
@@jerryjanusz1410 I just googled it and it works. I'm in canada too
How much do the tires cost
I have those ION tires on my MYP, excellent tires. As good as Michelin.
The pitch sequence has been a part of tire noise reduction for more than 80 years from my experience, maybe much longer. In the 70’s I wrote a heuristic Fourier analysis computer program that sought to optimize the spread of frequencies and obtain white tire noise. It may still be in use today.
The cards should be part of a car museum display.
Could I have access for that for free?
@@Srilankanenglishteachertypical pajeet
It is fascinating to learn that EVs have added new dimensions to tire design requirements. I tend to buy used cars. With my first car, I learned the importance of good and "healthy" tires for comfort, reliability and safety. Ever since, the first thing I replace on my new used care is old, worn or cheap no-name brand tires. And I always replace them with brand new high quality tires from a reputable brand... usually Michelin.
FWIW: I think this is the best tire "infomercial" I have ever watched. This definitely raised my awareness of Hankook tires without making it *feel* like an infomercial. Thanks for that.
I used Michelin. I prefer Bridgestone, but I drive a 206 (975 kg).
I guess it's different with an EV, but no way I buy a two tons car.
These things have to go on a diet.
@@ofdrumsandchords The model 3 is nearly the same weight as an audi a4
Interesting idea to randomise the Tread Pattern. I remember when Apple started doing that in their Macbooks to lower the perceived noise of the cooling fans. Varying blade lengths in the fan had the same effect as with this tyre.
Neither Apple nor Hankook invented the randomize patterns though. Theses tricks are quite old.
Edit: First patent for "randomized" tire pattern was as early as 1935. In 1994 the "randomization" was greatly improved. Puting it in quote marks, because actually the pattern is specifically tuned to create a non-peaking sound profile.
Wow neat, thanks for sharing! (And yeah, it's not a new trick but it's interesting nonetheless!)
Sometimes it's old tricks on new applications is the innovation
@@lennart637 cool, which pcs do it?
@@AdriandeMorcerf pcs? I am not a native English speaker, what does the abbreviation mean? I watched Andrew Lam's video on tires, I think all tire companies do it nowadays
As an engineer, I appreciate your emphasis on using the right component design characteristics for the specific system requirements. A designed system is so much more than the sum of its component specs.
Or less, depending on the quality of the design. As an engineer I am sometimes embarrassed by some of the exceptionally crappy crap I am forced to deal with. Especially when you can look at the stuff and about half the time and see where three cents spent at one point in the design could have made the device actually function for more than five minutes. This design requirement of maximizing the rate of landfill accumulation really needs to stop. And NO, it wasn't always this way, which you will know if you are older.
Is this engineering crap talk Bergyman?
@@foppo100 huh? no - just noting that there are too many spec warriors out there who will look at and hype up one particular quality while overlooking how well or how poorly a given system performs as a whole system.
I would rather talk to you about sound at a party than most other conversations. thanks for another great video.
wanna talk about the sound quality of this video?
As you can see, when we position ourselves 5ft from party guest Becky, the noise level increases by 10dB, impressive... For every foot we move away from Becky, the dB level decreases by 1. What can we conclude from this observation? Becky talks too loudly. Thanks for watching.
Funny.
I also learned from my Y that that foam inside the tire makes the ride not feel very even when the wheels are cold until they’ve had a time to warm up. You rarely feel it in the summer but winter it can take 20-30 minutes to warm up and feel smooth.
This is an old comment but I have to say it’s weird to see you here talking about car tires and not Pokémon or Zelda. What tires would Hankook engineer for the Master Cycle Zero?
I noticed this too on my model 3. Assumed it was due to the lower profile tires since this has also occurred on my ICE cars with low profile tires.
That does sound like a pain, but is it worth the trade off for the volume dampening?
Also sounds like a relative nonissue for areas that don’t have winter
"I'm fun at parties" - I love this stuff. Thanks for making sense of things I'd otherwise not understand!
Tires in my lifetime have come a very long way.
My first set.... bias ply road tires!
Awesome to see the levels of performance and safety go hand in hand.
Bias ply still used today on motorcycles, cruisers and scooters tires are mostly bias ply.
Remember the GTR BigFoot Radials from the ‘60s??
Tires very similar to this already exist for one ton pickups and larger vehicles and have done so for decades.
@@tobygathergood4990 yeah but not in car sizes
@@DaBinChe That depends on the wheels you have.
I never really thought about all the engineering that goes into tires, and how multidisciplinary it is. Great video 👍👍
Tire is the most important and most complex part on the car. On a tight track a Prius on the best race tires is gonna beat a Ferrari on summer street tires.
Tires are INCREDIBLY important to a cars handling and performance. One of the big reasons modern cars are handling so well is due to the advancements in tire technology.
To put it into perspective: A 2020 Civic Type R has a better lap time than a 2010 Gallardo, where the tires contributed about 50%.
@@xXYannuschXx yeah i know there have been huge advancements in design but this video kinda brought home to me the way all the various engineering disciplines involved -- materials science of the compounds used, mechanical design of tread and sipe patterns and for loading and acoustic characteristics, aerodynamics just to name a few -- all work together. Of course it has to be like that but he is just so good at making complicated stuff easy to understand that it helped me think about it all more holistically. See the big picture in a way I'd not even thought about before. That's what I meant.
Then along comes the group that lobbies for the need for a car to make noise so the sight impaired can sense en electric vehicle sending engineers to the rubber room.
@@larrybe2900 cars already got speakers for that since 2022
I race electric race cars, 3 weeks ago I drove the NASA “25 Hours of Thunderhill” and I wish tire manufacturers made tires optimized for EV race cars, a 10% reduction in rolling resistance could easily have allowed us to go one more lap between battery swaps.
Great video, excellent summary of the design tradeoff challenges! In an EV race car wind noise predominates, my car is an open cockpit, so a small change in windscreen angle and and different helmet made a big difference, and then I could really hear the tires, which is great for the driver to be able to hear what the tires are “saying” at the limits of grip.
Oh, also, you are right about summer tires vs all-season, make the switch to summer tires when the weather allows, you won’t regret it.
John, since you are a pro racer, can you elaborate more on summer tires on how they perform and efficiency based on your experience?
@@paulyang7067 typical summer tires have softer rubber compound that gives more grip and dissipates heat better than an all-season tire (which also means it will wear faster) and the tread pattern will have shallower grooves, usually with a center section that is continuous around the entire tire so there is a bigger contact patch. As far as efficiency, rolling resistance comes from deformation of the tire. A tire that has zero rolling resistance would be totally stiff, not compressing at all, and the contact patch would be a single straight line across the tread, not the rectangle of the real world. A solid metal train wheel with its metal tire comes close to this ideal. The more a tire “squishes” flat (giving a bigger contact patch) the higher the rolling resistance. It’s a geometry thing, not a rubber thing; rolling resistance comes from the energy required to move the rubber from the front of the contact patch to the back of the contact patch. All else being equal (which it never is) more grip means more rolling resistance; lower tire pressure means more rolling resistance; wheel/tire combos with smaller overall diameter means more rolling resistance. Also, the more mass, especially in the tread, of the tire, the more rolling resistance, all else being equal (but a tire that is more stiff may have more mass, but the reduction in rolling resistance from more stiffness may overcome the higher rolling resistance from the increased mass).
I’m not the clearest at explaining things, hopefully this helps but if you have more questions please feel free.
@@jpe1 Thank you for putting in the time to elaborate. Could you please expand on why lower diameter tires have more rolling resistance? Even with rotational inertia taken into account, it seems counterintuitive to me that a larger diameter would reduce rolling resistance
@@shootinbruin3614 I think I muddied the waters there! The problem is that I said “all else being equal” but that is very confusing when talking about overall diameter, because there are two elements that go into the overall diameter of the wheel/tire combination: the diameter of the wheel and the height of the tire sidewall… which is being kept “equal”? the *ratio* of wheel diameter to tire sidewall height, or the *absolute* tire sidewall height (or weirdly, wheel diameter could be kept the same…)? When I wrote my original comment I was imagining the ratio of wheel diameter to sidewall height would be kept the same, thus the wheel with the smaller diameter will have a tire that is proportionally distorting more (assuming equal pressure) but sidewall height usually remains the same when going to larger or smaller diameter overall diameter. (This is further confused because when upsizing or downsizing wheel/tire combos _for a particular car_ then the overall diameter is usually kept the same, to keep handling consistent and speedometers correct). When talking about a performance wheel/tire package, a 13” wheel might be mounted with a 185/60R13 tire, which has a sidewall height of 111mm; 15” wheel gets a 225/50R15 sidewall 112mm, a 17” wheel might have 275/40R17, sidewall 110mm; and a 19” wheel, 315/35R19, sidewall height 110mm. Of course one can select different section widths and aspect ratios that would still be “performance” tires yet would give very different tire sidewall heights, which is kinda my point, that I oversimplified and swept some messy details under the rug when I said “all else being equal.” Really, to consider rolling resistance for a given size wheel, the tire to be mounted is critical to determining if rolling resistance would go up or down, and the more I think about it, no generalization can be made, I shouldn’t have implied that it’s a simple relationship.
In the 8 years I have been driving the EVSR electric race car, we have tried wheels as small as 13” and as large as 15”, and used different section width and different aspect ratio tires, and of course different rubber compounds, and with all that, we have never tried to optimize rolling resistance because other considerations of grip and tire wear end up taking precedence. We have settled on a 15”x7” custom-forged wheel from Braid, with 205/50R15 tires. Usually when racing on a dry track we use either Toyo RAs or Hoosier SM7s. Toyos have slightly less absolute grip but less rolling resistance and higher top speed, although the tradoff between grip and top speed means that lap times are similar, depending on the track one tire might have a slight edge over the other. Personally I don’t like the Hoosiers because they tend to accumulate rubber “balls” in slower-speed corners and those don’t always scrub off on the high-speed sweepers. You can go to evsr. Net for more info.
@@jpe1 Great run down on the physics, thanks!
I lost it when you pulled the sound meter out of your glove box; the dry humor on this channel is fantastic.
10/10 - IGN
Really? You "lost it"? You have an extremely low threshold for humor.
@@J-RUclips324 depends on the joke, m8.
Unless you're driving on snow or ice, put about 10-15% more air pressure in the tires than the tire manufacturer says you should, voila you got stiffer tires that wears slower, reduces your consumption and improves handling. The only real down side is slightly more noise, but it's well worth it in my opinion.
Make sure to check and adjust the pressure if the temperature changes a lot through the season. Never go for the cheapest option tires, read reviews and buy known brands. Tires are, next to your brakes, the most important parts of your car. Old, worn tires or bad quality hard rubber tires may save you a little money right now, but the cost could be huge later.
For my car and tires the adviced pressure is about 44 psi, I use 50, and I've been doing that for years. I have 30 years of experience driving, and I am a professional driver licensed to drive anything on the road.
Я так делаю много лет. У меня на табличке написано давление 2.0 , я качаю 2,2 и всём так рекомендую!!!
You should never do this
@@fradland2784 Who should never do what?
The real downside is that you have a smaller contact patch, meaning you have significantly less traction. Worse braking results. Purposely making your car's braking worse is the stupidest thing anyone can do.
@@e-curb I'd like to see proof of the practical effect of that. In my experience, what you lose in braking (if anything at all), you gain from increased control in case of an evasive maneuver.
The tech in tires is one of the most under-appreciated things ever. This really highlights how much thought goes into the design of a tire and _why_. Very cool ideas from Hankook on the Ion.
Awesome video! I'm currently working on my "pre-scientific" paper for my highschool finals. It's about optimizing for rolling resistance for passenger vehicles up to 3.5 tons by variation of compounds and tread.
This videos has summed up lots of useful knowledge I've aquired so far!
So much more engineering in tires than I ever imagined!
This is why cheap tyres are more dangerous - they don't do the r&d.
@@thebrowns5337 So if you had two companies that did the same amount of R&D would you say the cheaper tyre is dangerous?
are you trolling?
@@ancient1946 Yes, it does but how would you tell?
Tyres are actually very subjective. Until you test one on a drum with a consistent measured temperature, speed and coefficient of friction it's hard to tell who has done better.
Hankook has come a long way. In my opinion they are one of the most bang for a buck tyres. I have bought 3 sets of studded winter tyres (iPike RS2) and 2 sets of summer tyres (ventus s1 evo3) and I'm very pleased with what I get for my money. Tyre tests show that, too.
Great video, thanks for all the info. I got the all season version and did a 8,916 mile (286 Wh/mi) cross county road trip in moonbeam (2021 Model Y LR). I have to say the tires are great. On a good pavement very smooth and quiet. Good performance in rain and snow (less than one inch was the only storm I faced). Looking forward to seeing how they hold up with more miles.
I’m a service advisor at a Honda dealer and tires fascinate me. I am typically among the top three tire sales leaders on my service drive. I love learning about tires so I can give the best advice. We don’t service any EVs yet because Honda hasn’t released one mass market, but I know the day is coming. Thanks for the deep dive on EV tires!
If Honda was smart they'd start servicing Tesla's like GM dealerships are doing, to capitalize on the shortage of Tesla service centers.
We got the Honda e in Europe. Not very successful. Quirky looks, poor range, high price.
All rubber is not created equal and that's a fact.
TWSS
@@TheAdventureAuto DBSA
@@TheAdventureAuto TSWISS
My parents agree
*DUREX*
Great video, I've tested something very similar a little more in depth with an etron and found exactly the same. But not all tire companies thing the seperate product range is correct, some are just making all their new tired "ev ready". I'm not yet sure which is the correct approach.
1. They're stiffer overall to account for the bigger weight (Rubber Compound, Sidewalls) . The contact patch is bigger to make up for harder rubber (which has less grip).
2. Rolling Efficiency - Rubber Compound makes largest difference. (up to 10% difference).
3. Noise - Tires have sound absorbing foam inside. Pattern in grooves break up sound. Varying block patterns to distribute noise over several frequencies, instead of one loud one.
4. Much lower grip limit due to rock-hard compound and too stiff sidewall
Thank you so much for helping me find my long lost SPL meter! I knew I had placed it somewhere and this video was instrumental in helping me find it again. Now I have the data to prove to my wife that our Tesla isn’t actually noisier 😊
Back in 1981 a guy from BG Goodrich came to our high school auto shop class and showed us one of the first Comp T/A tires ever made. He did a real deep dive on tires for us and I specifically remember him talking about the randomized tread blocks to reduce noise. Not a new idea. I really like the foam insert to reduce noise and wish all tires had that.
And some tire shop still won't repair tires with the foam, when it's been proven not to be a big deal. Misinformation still lingers on.
Your video is an interesting tutorial on tire technology. You had one small error about noise ratios. The decibel scale is a logarithmic power ratio: 10 x log10 (power 2 / power 1) . That means a noise power ratio of 2 is equivalent to 3 dB, since 10 x log10( 2) = 3.01 . Similarly, a noise power ratio of 8 is equivalent to 9 dB, since 10 x log10( 8 ) = 9.03 .
Ya. I was about to see if my Engineering degree was wrongly awarded to me. Great! At least there is some engineers here. I agree with you. Every 3 DB is double the noise "strength.
Yes, but our ears respond logarithmically too. When people subjectively judge one sound to be 'about twice as loud' as another, the measured difference is generally about 10db.
Jason, you are truly a great teacher. If you are a professor at a university, I would enjoy your lectures very much. Keep up the good work!
Very kind, and thanks for being a student of RUclips University! 😂
Good in depth on the differences between EV and ICE tyres. The rolling resistance was surprising.
Kudos to Hankook for sharing some info on this subject. In my experience with their truck tyres they are as good as Michelin's for grip and wear. Lots more to EV tyres than I considered.I don't mind an infomercial type presentation especially when it is not a blatant plug and you actually learn some good stuff like this.
You’re absolutely correct about Hankook’s truck tires. Until recent times, I was the owner of a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 pickup truck with the 5.9 L Turbodeisel engine with the 4-door extra cab. I bought it new and for the 20 years I owned the truck, I ran Hankook’s 10 ply M&S tire on the truck for the last 12 of those years. The truck came with set of Michelins (and I replaced them with the same Michelins when I wore out the OEM supplied set) to which the Hankooks were spec equivalents or better. Compared to the Michelins, the Hankooks lasted a bit longer and cost about 65% to 70% of what the Michelins cost; yet I got the same kind of performance, reliability and a 25% increase in longevity per set of Hankooks as compared to Michelins. The Michelins are good tires. The Hankooks are great tires.
Semi-drivers who know well about tyres say hankooks are very good tyres. But since they done years they've been increasing prices up to being considered premium now as well, not as much as the Michelins but not far
What an amazing break down of tire. You put light on a subject that nobody went as deep as you. Great work
I have seen your in depth engineering videos on normal tires and was fairly familiar with the technology and engineering principles, but never imagined how much more needed to be invested in development of EV tires. Another amazing video. Thank you!
Very cool Jason, hope you can cover formula e tyres and how they help in development of ev tyres, thanks!
I am about due for new tires on my Tesla Model X, this video has changed my mind about what tire I was going to buy. Thanks for explaining what and why EV tires should be used on a EV.
Hopefully you're not in the US because I still can't find any EV specific tires sold here. There's the old Ecopias and a couple models that are marketed as "more" efficient, but little else. Nokians are a notable exception for winter tires, but a lot of dealers still don't carry them.
Me too, I have a model X in Australia and find the noise from the tyres creates a high and low pitch noise which is very annoying. I don’t know if anyone else experiences this phenomenon. How many kilometres have you managed with the original tyres? I am coming up to 60,000km.
@@miltont5173 I'm at 22,000 miles and will be replacing in another 5 or 6,000
What tires did you end up getting? What has been your experience so far?
I'm a Model Y owner, at 40,300 miles on my original Continental ProContact RX rated for 40,000 and still some 2 mm tread left above the inbuilt indicator. So I'd definitely be interested in your response
@@ArmageddonIsHere I went and bought the Hankook EV tire for my X. So far I love them, have about 10,000 miles on them, just looked, I have a little over 8,000 miles. They are extremely quiet on the road, have excellent grip in the rain, living in Arizona don't get snow, so can't say how that would be, but I think they would be fine. They have a long mileage warranty that the other tire manufacturers didn't have. I got them at Discount Tire, they didn't stock them but got them in the next day once ordered. I like them so much will install Hankook tires on my Cadillac when they are due for replacement. Look for any discount coupons from Hankook, they sometimes have sales. Thanks for asking my opinion.
Id say I already got a pretty good understanding of physics so I can think of a lot of things concerning cars and acceleration and stuff but this dude is just it, he kills it. I always learn something new from him
Overall, this is very helpful. One minor, inconsequential quibble: if the variation in block width is random, then it can't be optimized. If it's optimized, it can't be random. It would be more precise to say that the variation in tread block width is optimized to reduce sound.
I don't think that's entirely correct.
He measured the thread block separation, and after two measures concluded it was randomized. I'm sure, it was not an empirical statement, he probably was informed by the company. The thing is, the thread block measurement doesn't go from minus to plus infinite, it has boundaries set. You can set a boundary measurement that goes from 18mm to 22mm, randomly and infinitely. We don't even know the degree of precision in the manufacturing process (18.2, 22.1, 19.5,...). The set up of a boundary measurment is in fact a form of optimization, that I would guess is tied to the rotatory frquency of the wheel, concerning the circumference of the wheel and the speed at which the rotation generates a degree of vibration that significantly translates into noise (audible, that is) thru the whole chain of contact between the car and the road surface.
The whole point of it is to turn the surface of the tire into a mechanical diffuser, so the constructive interference of the vibratory frequencies gets nullified, ideally for all frequencies. So in the end, the pattern needs to be randomized, but the boundary limits of it needs to be optimized (the former parameter acting on the dynamics of the tire, the later being applied to the static boundaries of human auditory system).
I'm guessing this is the point of him saying they can be "optimized for SOUND reduction", because there are plenty of inaudible vibrations for which they could be optimized in order to reduce the mechanical wearing of the car, but maybe that form of optimization is not as significant as the one which reduces the psychological wearing of the driver exposed to excesive noise. Or maybe it's simply the more effective way of marketing the perks of a superiorly design, more expensive product: thru perceived confort.
I often ride my bike on a path that parallels E470 on Denver's east side. The average speed of vehicles on this road is probably 80-85 mph (the 75 mph limit is just a suggestion in CO, as are red lights). So, to me the noise you hear external to the car is first tire noise followed by closely by wind noise. On most stock cars in reasonably good condition, you barely hear the engine noise. And with all the SUVs and 4wd pickups sporting aggressive tires, tire noise is really bad along our roads.
Especially MT tires used on road, they are several times louder on the freeway.
Denver gang 💪
The drivetrain noise is conducted into the car but much less notable in a drive past sound level.
This past summer I changed my tires on my truck for a road trip to western Colorado from eastern Missouri. The Michelin defenders were much quieter, and gave me a 3 mpg boost with ac on at 75 mph. Mid 20 mpg until we started the climb.
What r u driving?
They may be expensive, but worth every penny. I love my Michelin ltx tires on my f150
The defenders are an awesome tire
Actually hankook is wrong. According to the EU ACEA tires are now like 80% of a vehicles noise. They actually noticed that rolling in Neutral with the engine off the tires made up almost all the exterior noise in -db
Depends what speed you're traveling, and the road surface. Difficult to say there's an exact percentage, I'd agree with you there.
I appreciate how in depth you go into a subject. I relate tires to shoes. Don't go to Mt Rainier with flip flops on. Thanks for the info
I just got the Audi e-tron, the quietest cabin on the market with dual pane acoustic glass and lots of acoustic treatment or sound deadening material everywhere because it is so quiet I love it, the quietness calms my Aspergers. And the rest of the car is just as awesome, I hope you can test drive one and put it on your show.
6:30 I'm pretty sure this will never get remixed into a meme/video and Jason will never regret this.
Very informative. Tyres are probably the most important factor in car safety especially in snow or rainy conditions. Ta very much
I have to call bs on the weight thing cause my BMW i3s weigh's about the same as a gas car like a ford focus before they were discontinued or a Honda civic for the same car but the range extender removed from the car the weight thing is why Tesla's are so good at getting their drivers into more car accidents more often due to weighing a whole lot more and this is important if you are considering an ev other then what tesla offers as they tend to be lighter then Tesla's offerings and thus in an emergency will stop faster in a short distance due to having weight and therefor less mass and momentum to stop
@Raven4K Tires have varying load carrying capacity based on application, so you can't compare the weight of your vehicle to a Ford focus because the wheel base is different between those cars, therefore the load carrying capacity on your wheels, I can garuntee,, is different when compared to a civic or focus.
Although the weight is similar, the BMW i3 is both higher, and shorter lengthwise, than a civic or a focus, so the weight distribution on all 4 tires is different .
It looks like the i3s uses an XL tire which is meant to carry more weight than a common passenger tire.
@@raven4k998 yeah, i kinda want an electric car, but I don't want a tesla. In my family we switch cars for a brand new ones each 3 years and ive gotten new one bit over a year ago so i still have 2 more years with this one, but 1 will be switched this year and 2 more next year. Maybe we will pick one ev to try out, but we borrowed skoda eniaq to test out and it was bad, looks terrible, has worse acceleration than my daily car and is limited to 160kmh.
Maybe when its time to switch mine, there will be some nice options already. My requirements for an ev are: max speed over 250kmh, 0-100 around 3 seconds, range of at least 700km and it cant be a tesla cuz Musk xd, it has to also have good stability in corners as i like to drive fast on small roads, and heavy cars usually struggle with that. I also don't want a daily car thats over 50k$ as people here are morons and cant park properly so its extremely likely that someone will wreck your car so i would be scared to park an expensive car here, even tho its insured. I wouldn't ever take the jaguar or the sportscar my family has to the capital city to have it parked near my flat. My sister has had her car crashed into 4 times while parked near her flat and also intentionally scratched by a key in just 1 week lol. Also its usually quite cold here, sometimes -30Celsius which ev dont seem to enjoy so i might have to stick to gasoline. Also the charging is really bad as I don't want to spend over an hour charging it during my drive. In the capital city where i live with my gf, its close to impossible to charge it outside of a gas station and charging it in my garage where i sometimes park would take ages. Its also 20 minutes away from my flat so i park there only when i dont need the car.
So i might buy an ev in the future, but i will never buy a tesla, even if it was the only car maker in the world. I would rather travel around on bike than to give Musk my money honestly
His smile is upside down
Dude I been watching your videos for about 5 years, and man my brain hurts yet I'm so intrigued. I've always wanted to be an engineer, but that never happened lol. Yet I still watch all our videos!!!! Thanks for making these.
I could not have asked for a better explanation. Thank You.
I have bought a lot of tires in my life, but I have never seen rolling resistance specified, but I'd sure like to see it based on your analysis, thanks.
Almost no tire manufacturers release RR specs. The only reason I can conceive of why is because it'd make comparing models too easy for the consumer. The only real RR numbers I've found were in consumer reports tests from about a decade ago and the only tire they tested that's still produced is the Ecopia, but it's been revised a couple times since then, so it's not accurate either. The closest thing you're likely to find is the EU fuel efficiency rating, which will be at least proportional to RR. I think there's even a scale out there somewhere that equates an A rating with .006 or less RR or something, but I'm not sure how accurate that is. The next problem is trying to buy a US tire with an EU efficiency rating of A since most manufacturers sell different models in the US or the US version doesn't have the same specs as the EU version.
Yeah, I don't think we have a label for it in the US, but the EU has a label for it if you can find a similar tire. Their ranking is from A-E, which has a corresponding coefficient of rolling resistance. This site provides the ranges for the 5 different letter grades: www.tire-reviews.com/Article/EU-Tire-Label-Current-status-and-challenges.htm
Great video, but as a owner of a Kona EV I can tell you the original tires were pretty much dangerous in the cold and wet up here in the Pacific Northwest.. I put a set of Michelin cross climate 2 on the car and the difference in wet and light snow was exponentially better. However I do get about 20 - 30 miles less on a full charge but we’ll worth it. I would like to see how these tires compare to a tire like the cross climate 2 in the wet and light snow.
Exact same thing with the original tires on our Chevy Bolt here in Colorado. The original tires are almost worthless and certainly dangerous on snow and ice.
Summer tires are bad in cold and snow? Huh. They really ought to give these different kinds of tires names that make it super obvious to everyone what conditions they are expected to be used in. 😐
@@mjc0961 Not sure if you are trying to be funny, but they were not summer tires.
@@billybeemus3929 They want to get those extra few miles of range for marketing and don't care about safety.
@@mjc0961Factory tires tend to be the cheapest tires the car manufacturer can buy as long as they meet minimum, (and I mean minimum), requirements. ICE cars suffer the same issues when new. The factory tires very often tend to not be very capable in any season in less than dry conditions no matter the season.
For me the biggest concern regarding tires (for most vehicles) is performance in inclement conditions, rain, snow, ice and any combination there of. I must have confidence in my tires during these conditions, or I can't control the vehicle when I need to most. The other factors you bring up are all gravy (granted the economy one is a big deal for my ev and probably my truck too), the only thing that matters is do I have traction when everyone else doesn't (because they are the biggest hazard in inclement conditions)... I don't understand why more people do not seem to prioritize this like I do, we don't all live in Florida and even if we did, the drivers suck and wet pavement is pretty common...
Regardless, all this talk sounds great, but without independent real world testing, it's all marketing wankateering. It's definitely got my interest but I need to see how they stack up on a Consumer reports type testing before I'll pull the trigger
Your right not everyone think like you and me especially the manufacturers
@@LightWeightHercules is there a reason for you and the manufacturers? Do I have a blind spot or am I that far from the norm?
Glad I came across this, I have a Bolt and I didn’t know about tire differences, this will help me get the correct tires in the future. Thanks man!
Hankook owes you money, I just bought a set of these due to this video.
I am similarly "fun at parties" 🙂 , but seriously found your presentation most informative. Explaining very technical things in a simple manner is an art. Well done, and thanks.
I have found only people who understand the topic can make it simple , those who are learning it can only parrot
Well put together presentation! Learned some great information. To compare that particular tire to the one that Tesla selected for that vehicle wheel size specifically, the OEM suggested wheel. And tire. When I used to work at Tesla I know that an absolutely insane amount of work went into developing tires that were purpose-built for their cars to get the best of range and comfort and all the other things like you just covered.
We have a June 2020 Model S LR+. The original tires were the 19" Good Year. I got great efficiency, 237 Wh/mi. I thought they were a bit noisy, with laggy handling. They only lasted 26,902 miles. Discount tire almost wouldn't let me leave the store with two tires at 2/32" and two at 3/32" (no snow here). I replaced them with Michelin Primacy MXM4 All Season, a Tesla approved tire. So far in only a few hundred miles I am wowed by the quiet and improved handling and ride. Too early to tell on the efficiency. Comments?
When I had the Chevy Bolt I gave up a few miles of overall range when I changed from the OEM tire to Nokian WR G4, but had so much better traction in wet and the winter. Well worth it. Easier to maximize tire efficiency for folks that live somewhere with no seasons.
They actually have a winter version (see 11:24). Good snow grip, but significantly quieter than a traditional winter tire.
Why are the comments of this video filled with people who are surprised that their OEM summer tires are lousy in snow? It's literally in the name.
@mjc0961 Because a lot of the OEM tires are "all season" so people expect them to be a bit better than they turn out to be.
I have the Hancook EV tires on my ID.4. I have to say, they have been great, 40k on them and they still look and ride great. By far the longest I’ve had a tire last on an EV.
Hi David, do your tyres have a foam insert?
I'm glad you are doing some recent EV stuff as now I've discovered your other EV videos just in time for me getting an EV. Throwing down for one in less than a year.
I noticed the tread pattern differences a few years ago. I always wondered why would tire companies intentionally did that. I knew it could not be a production mistake. Thanks for all the info!
Many EV/efficiency focused tires tend to give up a lot of grip, especially in the rain. Hopefully Hancook has found a way to overcome this.
Some of them have less thread depth too so they don't last as long as are more expensive. I'm putting Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S on my EV once my current, awful grip, Continental EcoContact 6 wear out.
I agree...went with performance tire with XL rating for this reason after 15K miles on factory tires. They absolutely suck in the rain. I really didn't mind giving up range for what is basically safety.
2000kg for a hatchback, nice.
Sadly yep 😭
Extra weight , cannot defeat physics.
Great video. I have a Camry hybrid and it comes with 235/45R18 tires. I would like to go to 215/55R17 (allowed according to manual). My goal is slightly better ride and lower cost. I also worry about vulnerability of the lower profile tires to damage from minor road hazards.
I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions you can offer.👍
Ive had them for a month and put 500 miles on them. I've driven 130,000 miles on the S in total and these blow away the michelin MXM4's I had. Hankook has a winner and they are going to sell alot of these! I just uploaded a short review
Recently ran into issues with this when one of my front Bolt tires developed a concerning looking lump. None of the local shops carried EV tires, and my dad (a mechanic in his younger days) kept trying to get me to buy the wrong tires.
Turns out, he wasn't the only one- I later discovered that the dealership who had sold me the car put the wrong tires on two years ago! I was wondering for literal years why my efficiency/range was around 30% lower than what it should be and after ordering new, proper tires into Costco now I know why
Would be awesome to see a comparison between the normal and EV tyres. Really want to see the difference in stopping distance between the two. Amazing to see tyre tech develop like this. Simplest and cheapest upgrade you can do !!!
what happens when you get a puncture? Do you remove and reinstall the form to fix it, plug it, or does it become dead weight and needs to be replaced?
I asked them about this - you can still plug it like you would normally with a nail or something (from the outside). Specifically they said no problem with seal-type repairs, but liquid-type repair kit is not suitable, and that it's an issue they're working on.
Hmm, since many (most?) EVs don't come with a spare tire and only a sealant/inflator for limping back for repairs, that sort of makes the foam inserts a non-starter for many (most?) EV owners. Between this issue and unavailability, I guess I'll stick with Ecopia or equivalents in 6 months when I have to replace our Niro's tires.
@@alejandrovieira6451 You know, that's a very interesting point. For my car, it comes from the factory with tires that have the foam, and yet they also sell the liquid sealing kits, so it makes you wonder if that works at all...
@@EngineeringExplained I sure hope you don't have to find out personally!
As far as I know a tire repair shop can cut away part of the foam, make space for the mushroom plug, and glue in the temporarily removed foam. The tire and wheel always gets rebalanced after the repair. But spray in foam will always ruin any tire, again, as far as I know... A spare tire remains golden to carry at all times!
Please don't get me wrong, it's a fascinating and well explained subject as always. But I tend to distrust things that sound too perfect. What are the drawbacks if you change the compound or overall construction of the tire?
Usually price.
price. EV specific tires are VERY expensive. like semi truck tire expensive.
As a Honda Clarity plug-in hybrid owner, and Uber driver, I loved this video! When I'm in ECO (battery) mode my tires seem VERY noisy. But when I'm in hybrid mode the sound of my engine seems deafening. It's all relative.
I’ll never get tired of hearing you talk about tires.
The point about EVs being heavier is not universally correct
Hi Jason. I noticed you've blurred the wheel center caps. Are these the same wheels you installed a few years ago, so you could take advantage of the smaller diameter (not available on your performance model) and thus, the taller sidewall and its comfort? Back then, you showed the brand, but not today. Why?
All the logos were blurred, I bet Hankook didn't want them in the video.
If you look closely you can see the blurring on the hood as well. Basically Jason is trying to avoid copyright/legal trouble with Tesla or even more likely RUclipss random algorithms that could see the logo and maybe do some kind of automated demonetization. The platform isn't what it used to be and its little things like this that show it.
Technically speaking you're not allowed to show copyright logos in sponsored content (there's some variance, but you'll notice this with my previous videos as well). The wheels are T-Sportline, the caps have Tesla logos (not the T-Sportline logo).
@Engineering Explained was wondering the same thing. Learned more than a couple things here love the content🙂
Can you make an EV tires comparison video? Stack against each other Michelin EV specific, Conti Econcontact, GoodyearElectricDrive, etc. And then one non-EV i.e. ContiExtremeContact or some regular Michelin Pilor Sport. p.s. my guess is hat Michelin and continental will blow Hankook's out of the water. I'd also guess regular ContiExtreme Contacts are as good or better than the Hankook EV tires.
I did search for one of these videos, but couldn't find any. Probably nobody made one yet.
I just bought a set of used tires from the shop. They told me they were Michelins but what I didn’t know was that they were Michelin EV tires. My car is a gas car but so far I’m loving these tires. Super quiet and the car coasts really really well
A lot more to these tires than I'd imagined. I'm about to replace mine, and had planned on going with the same Michelin EV tires, but I'll have to give these a closer look. Thanks.
My e-golf is about 400 lbs heavier than the ICE golf (depending on trim). I've found EV tires are ROUGH for the e-golf because of the stiffness and the noise is noticeable. It would be interesting to see the difference between ICE cars that have EV trims and purpose-built EVs. I think there is a gray area there.
Out of sheer curiosity, would EE mind doing a video with the overall effects of tire siping?
Car tires are only very slightly more aerodynamic because they're thinner. That's not the main efficiency gain of thin tires tho, it's rolling resistance (or static rolling friction). The aerodynamics of the wheels is a relatively small percentage of the frontal area and skin so making them smaller to this end is not effective especially when balanced itwith the downsides. However the rolling resistance reduction is pretty huge so the tradeoff between efficiency and maneuverability becomes more attractive
Did you type this before watching the whole video? He mentions roll resistance
Very good info. I had never thought about how EV cars have different tire requirements. One suggestion though. 0.002 isn't "oh point oh oh two." It's "zero point zero zero two." O is a letter and 0 is a number. I thought you would want to know and please keep making your good videos.
I have noticed something about rolling efficiency over my more than 50 years of driving and that is my car rolls far better going down hill then going up a hill, also fuel economy changes drastically going up compared to going down, it's why I plan my trips in a way that I only go down hill to my destination and never go North as North is all up hill on my Globe of the world.
This is why we should always listen to our older members of society as we pick up these tid bits from just being around for so long :)
Cost comparison with similar sizing and seasonal type?
Their website is horrible. No information on the differences between their tire offerings and all corporate marketing fluff
EV tire price should be figured into the cost to operate/maintain the vehicle.
Like all cars, it is part of the cost, right?
Should transmission fluid changes, differential fluid changes be included for gas car maintenance?
@@CarlosGutierrez-qw6pr timing belt, etc etc.
@@CarlosGutierrez-qw6pr Of course. In a proper analysis one tries to include all costs.
Engine oil & filters, transmission filters, fuel filters, air filters, transfer case oil, engine valve adjustment, timing belt replacement (plus water pump, tensioners & coolant), spark plugs, drive belts, etc.
Lease folks won't care about most of this.
@Tron Jockey Yes , my exhaust pipe on my 2007 Dodge had a hole in it so I just put a cut up soup can with a pair of hose clamps over it. Works like a charm. Stealership, no thanks. Lucky my trusted Kona EV never has any problems.
I think our Ioniq 5 came with Michelin Primacy All Season, not specially an EV tire. We only have around 19k miles on them but they still look nearly new so I would expect 40-50k miles on them. The Ioniq 5 tires may last longer because from a stop it always starts with AWD powering all 4 wheels, than as you get 15-20mph with no wheel slip it will disengage the front drive. I have heard that having the foam insert makes them not repairable or at least more difficult.
im watching this in at night with my door open and the audio from your voice pierces the air throught my whole house. Youve got a great voice, just recommend hooking up a mic or investing in a better microphone and talk with a relaxed tone.
This is a great video, but what happens with winters tires because they have a softer tread?
Softer only when in same temperature as summer, they will behave similarly in those lower temperatures.
On a nice day they wear out far faster!
Can someone let me know what car he's driving? I can't tell because the logos are all blurred.
It is an older Tesla Model 3. I didn't realize he blurred the steering wheel logo till I looked at it again.
Satire? Or fr?
Great analysis, tks!
What about hybrids? HEV? PHEV?
Those would fall under the category of a regular car.
You sold me! When our new Tesla gets a little older we will change! Very good video, Thanks EE!
Terrific video! I wonder how many of those tire shop guys remove the foam layer inside and throw it away!?
Still waiting for electric cars to be practical and affordable over here lol. I also wonder how they hold up in -30C here in Canada. The tires grip, the battery range and lifespan, and other components in the long term.
@@EpicDrew15 When people talk about this I always remind them that it still started and went. How often do ICE cars refuse to start at all in that cold of temperatures?
@@extragoode unless you're driving a 15 year old car with a poor battery your car will almost always start no matter how cold. I've never had trouble starting a car in the winter since the cars started to use computer control fuel injection. At least you can usually get your old ICE started with jumper cables. You don't have to worry about that with 15 year old EVs because they will be scrapped at 10 years when the drive battery fails.
@@jimfarmer7811 correct, ALMOST always. Lots of cars start in the cold, but some don't sometimes and that one time that it won't start is a bigger deal than the 1000 times it did start like you expected it to. My point was simply that there's nothing to start, no big burst of energy made more difficult by low temperatures, in an EV. You just turn it on and drive.
The age of the car has much less to do with it than the cold cranking amps it's engine requires to start. An older car that's lost a little compression might even require less CCAs. Still, almost every manufacturer recommends replacing the lead acid starter battery every 3 years, Nissan even recommended I replace the lead battery in my LEAF after 3 years. Why? Because after 3 years of use they MIGHT not have enough CCAs to start the engine. I don't follow recommendations on starter batteries though and I've had some that last 6 or 7 years. Because I stretch the starter battery as long as I can I've had lots of ICE's refuse to start in less cold temps than -30C, I even had a lead battery in my LEAF die on me after 8 years, but that was in the summer. When I don't adhere to the recommendations, that's my fault and I wouldn't do it if I didn't know what I was doing, but you can't tell me that everybody else is driving around with less than 3 year old batteries. Batteries aren't even covered under most warranties, because they're considered a wear item, like brakes and tires.
My LEAFs 10th birthday is in about a month and the drive battery hasn't failed, so I have no intention of scrapping it. There have been battery failures, but remember, it's only been since about the time fuel injection became popular that cars were expected to go more than 100k miles, especially domestic US brands. So in their first decade EVs are more reliable than ICEs that had been manufactured for most of a century.
@@extragoode I buy my cars and drive them until they get delivered to the scrap yard. I've never had any problems with the engines and transmissions in any of the cars I've bought in my life. For example a chevy cavalier that I owned went 230,000 with only minor maintenance. In fact I never changed the plugs or the transmission fluid for the whole life of the car. Everything still worked when I scrapped it out. It still had the original muffler. The only reason I scrapped it was my son ran over curb and destroyed the front suspension.
@@jimfarmer7811 how much gas did you put through your example? And how many times did you change the oil? I had an 83 Marquis station wagon that was junked at 120k miles miles because the heater coil went out and blew the coolant all over the windshield. It wasn't worth fixing because it was 15 years old, had bad brakes, old tires, and only got about 18mpg. My 94 S10 was sold for parts when it was 20 years old and only had 160k miles on it because I hit a deer with it. Most interference engines require a timing belt replacement every 60k-100k miles which costs $1000 -2000 or else the engine will eventually kill itself. Some people have Tesla's that have gone 230k miles on the original battery too. Most cars aren't the best deal ever and most aren't the worst deal ever either, but there's no way to know until long after the deal is done. For me, I'm lazy and prefer the no oil changes or stops at the gas station. The fact that it costs less per mile to drive than my 250cc motorcycle is just bonus. I wish you continued luck with your ICE vehicles as the least wasteful thing to do is keep driving the car you already have as long as you can.
Great overview of what goes into a tire for an EV. It's a shame that (as of late December 2022) these are unobtanium. Unless you care to share your supplier with all of us? 😉
he probably knows the most direct suppliers at this point, some dont sell direct to public, only to trade, some of those will sell to certain individuals knowing its a personal purchase even though the person could be claiming 'well its for a video on youtube'.
A Tesla Model 3 is one of the noisiest EV’s there is. Wonder if that makes these tires more useful, or less for this car than other EV’s
Tesla is a dead company
@@AgentOffice cope.
@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 you'll need to with losses
I drive a gas car, but after this video I want to buy these tires haha
A good thing that sound levels get more focus on electric car tires.
Living in Norway, where we have a very high ratio of electric cars, I have observed that electric cars driving at 50-80km/h have a consistently higher overall noise level than diesel/petrol cars when heard from the side of the road.
Seeing as many people live next to roads and are already bothered by road noise, the growth of electric car sales and their noisy stock tires have actually been a real setback since car noise level regulations are usually based on exhaust/engine sound alone.
Looking forward to your summer tire review and hope to see a non-EV tire comparison on the same car, focusing on grip and brake distance since most stock EV-tires have comparatively low scores towards non-EV tires.
I’m going straight to Hankook when I replace tires for my Tesla. Very impressive.
I can’t be the only one that thought this video was going to be about ELECTRIC car TIRES..…
Nope. Got me too
I know...thought it'd be TRON out this btch
It is, isn't it?
I always forget to keep a sound meter in my glovebox.
There's an app for that! Haha.
You're not an engineer then?
This is more than I thought I'd ever care to know about tires. But I'm glad I watched.
Nice video. I drive a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR and changed from stock Continentals at 45K to Michelin CrossClimate2. I noticed about a 10% drop in efficiency and on research discovered the concept of rolling resistance. My next set I will definitely be researching a bit more before making a choice and rolling resistance will be a big factor.
Driving 4 Answers has a GREAT general knowledge video on tires.
Never got super interested in EVs. Don't much think about tires and functionality with different vehicles. Still stayed around to watch a video about EV car tires. 👍
Fascinating explanation of the technology, but no word about the cost.
A deep dive into a subject I thought I knew a tiny bit about thanks to growing up in a motorsports family, but it turns out I knew far less, I got lost in this it was straight up *fascinating*
WOW! in ONE Video, i understood it all!
Very good! Thanks!
Excellent explaination of the why's and how's of EV tire requirements. Thanks so much!
Thanks for watching!