Emmett, thank you for a well done overview of Kip McKean's practices and what is taught within the ICC and founded in the ICOC. I would like to add this comment for clarification of who Kip believes himself to be. In a personal meeting with Kip and we discussed the abusive tactics and leadership of Tim Kernan and others, Kip stated the following. "Russ, one thing you must understand is that I am God's chosen leader. "To go against me, decisions I have made or leaders I put in place, it is as if you are going against God Himself". God has chosen me to lead His modern day movement." It was at this meeting that God made clear to me who Kip McKean believes he is, he believes that he has literally been chosen, not figuratively. May God use this to open the eyes of those who follow blindly and restore their sight only upon the Cross of Christ.
@@imriddenvlogs1077 I hope you are doing better. I don’t know your story but I can imagine it was spiritual abuse on some level. I can relate. I was with the “Discipleship Movement” that was the genesis of this church and the ICOC. As my eyes 👀 opened more I was glued to all the Scriptures related to being led and anointed by the Holy Spirit. One of them First John 2:20-27. That and John 14 - 16 and then more in the NT and then OT. Long story short the Holy Spirit led me out. And although I have visited I still know to this day it was the right thing to do. Some time after this I went to Calvary Chapel and moving to a new city eventually joined a Baptist church where the Bible is taught book by book and they’ve been in John for almost a year now. In an age of corrupt churches and televangelists there are some solid churches out there that are not so legalistic. I hope the ICC has not ruined your view of who Jesus Christ is. Kip is like the Pharisees who will not enter the kingdom of God and prevents those who are trying to enter. God is the judge but from what I read about false teachers he fits the bill.
Yup, sounds like Kip alright. I don’t understand how Kip left the ICOC, started the ICC, practiced the same doctrine when he started the ICOC, and expect a different result
They always say I have the free choice to leave at any point, but when I did want to leave, I was pressured to do just one more Bible study to answer any confusion I had. The guy I was speaking with also wanted to share my number with other members, and I said no. Thankfully, he respected my choice. Also they do group study for you, they take notes for you, they explain verses for you. There's 3 or 4 people trying to explain the word of God using verses taken out of context, and they pressure you to agree with what they say God wants from you.
Thank you for this video. I was apart of the ICOC and I did not have a full informed consent of what I was joining. I thought my Bible studies were for my closeness with God (which is what the ICOC members stated). I thought my baptism was for my salvation and then I was handed a membership form. I didn’t mind joining the church, but it did feel a little left field. I didn’t realize I was in ICOC until I asked ‘what do I call us’? I saw a ton of red flags that I pushed down for the sake of believing I was in a good speaker with good people. But the moment I had questions was the moment I became the black sheep. I was treated so poorly it pushed me to therapy. Therapy gave me a clean mental slate, and I thank God everyday that while I will never forget my experiences, I don’t feel anger, fear and agony for leaving.
Hi, you said or you mentioned that they started treating you poorly I guess when you asked questions. I’d like to know what exactly did they do? I’m Triana, I am visually impaired,/blind physically but I guess I’m probably also blind mentally. The city of Angels ICC member recruited me actually at my very own school, I was walking from the cafeteria to sit at the lunch table, but I was trying to find whatever lunch table that’s empty that I could sit, because I’m an introvert I don’t like being around people sometimes, because of my disability, and this woman asked if I wanted to read the Bible and I took it as a kind gesture thinking nothing about it. They offered me to also come to a Bible talk at the mall with them at the church with them and again I thought nothing about it if anything I was really happy, finally someone to take me to church, but then getting into a few studies, I feel really really scared and uncomfortable now, and I’ve also felt left out and I was treated like second class well the members were treated better than me. What exactly did they do to you? I want to know everything because I wanna know what am I doing, who am I associating myself with and what have I got myself into, I love Jesus so much but what have I gotten myself into?
@@trianacotera853 Hi, I'm extremely sorry it took me so long to see this! I hope you're okay. I'll do my best to answer your questions briefly. The ICC is very much like the early 2000s version of the ICOC from what I hear. You may want to take a look at the Henry Kriete letter to give some context on what they people were experiencing, because I did not have the luxury of at least seeing it until I left. So I received welcoming energy when I was reached out out to, but I did notice that there were favoritism towards those that fit the status quo. I joined because they were some members that could relate to some of my experiences so I bonded with them. I was baptized within a month of beginning bible studies, because I was eager and do have a Christian background. Once I joined I was abandoned. All the welcoming energy I received immediately stopped. It was mostly about gaining numbers, so I was trained quickly on how to reach out and invite people to bible talks. The leaders were very determined to add to the church, so we're very pushy about strategy and keeping record of who we reached out to. If you weren't feeling comfortable, they may say things like, "You need to get fired up for God, we have to add to the number and save souls." It was exhausting. If you missed anything, people who call you and drill you about where you were and why you missed things. I was told because Jesus didn't take break I wasn't suppose to either. They were sometimes a bit more gentle, and more persuasive, but it was more of a love bombing technique. I remember being touched a lot, they were always adjusting my clothes, touching my hair, messing with my glasses. They didn't know proper physical and even emotional boundaries. There was a high pressure to share everything, secrets, sins/confessing, what you did everyday. We had 'encouragement dates', which were double dates. The women could not say no, as to not 'discourage' the men in the church. I was labeled 'struggling' for being exhausted from school (my major was demanding and the church is very time intensive). I was labeled 'savage' for being too honest or blunt. There was a label for relatively normal things, but labels spread fast in the church. To be labeled is to have a stigma on you, and everyone will know about it. Scripture does get twisted to establish rules to follow. It a heavy culture, and most of us struggled to think freely because we were in fear of being labeled. I was told if i didn't certain things I would not be talked to. I was cornered quite a bit for things like, "you didn't smile at me today", "you didn't give me a hug but you hugged someone else", "do you like one of the brothers". Everything that would normal like having a bad day, normally meant a slap on the wrist because "you have to show guest a good presentation of the kingdom of God." After so many slaps on the wrist you began to conform out of fear of being corrected. It was tough. I am very happy I did not stay long. The only reason I got out was because I was serving in a ministry and it gave me time to decompress from all the pressures of everyone in the church (everyone watches everyone). The ability to think for yourself is so important but so discourage. I'm sure I didn't cover everything, it is a lot. I'll keep an eye out for more notifications to continue this conversation if you need it because I do want you to be aware. Your biggest tool is the bible. Read if for yourself and allow the spirit to guide you. I would encourage you not to take on new burdens/rules/laws/chains if you have freed yourself through Jesus. One good podcast that I listen to if the Reclammation Podcast by Aldo B Martin. There are currently rolling out season 2. It's spot on with my experiences in the ICOC, and he does a good job of breaking the episodes down to 20min chunks. I think you should check it out. With who is leading the ICC, I'm sure things will be similar.
I lost a friend to this church, someone who was never really grounded in Scripture. She tried to recruit me back in 2017 as if I did not know she was doing. She saw me as lost despite my profession of faith and being Biblically literate. Her mind has been completely taken over by this group. It's amazing how her personality has shifted so much. This is what happens when you are unable to think for yourself. You will find someone who will think for you. I agreed to "study the Bible" with them and I set up Biblical roadblocks to see what they would do. They were so confused. Their "first principles" studies take the place of the Bible itself. Clearly they do not do much plain reading to understand what is being said from the text without referring to Kip McKean's commentary. It's deceptive for them to say "study the Bible" when it means going through pre-determined passages from the Bible with no exegesis. It's a bait and switch tactic.
@@TerranDawn12 That was a really good question & I would have loved to have heard their answer. Sadly, they probably never got the notification of your question. I've found it's quite typical of RUclips to use these 'roadblocks,' the buggers. For what it's worth, that really was a great question 😉
This is the, verbatim, most accurate description of Kip’s ICC. I spent five years in the church, and often they would preach that we would be Bereans, checking whatever was preached, and to be humble. But when I questioned what was preached and how leadership treated its members, I was called poisonous, and responsibility was shifted. I pray for them everyday, but I couldn’t associate with them any longer. From what I’ve heard, they’re spiritual abuse has only gotten worse. Well done brother.
I had a similar experience with the "do as we say not as we do" leadership model [cough] pharisees [cough]. I am extremely grateful for the teaching, and would remind them that it is what they taught me to do. If they didn't subside then, and rather turn and try to project onto me how I'm a sinner, and since we confess to one another, they knew my specific sins, which is biblical, they would throw it back in my face, which is Not biblical. I would just remind them that Balaam's donkey spoke the Words of our Abba when the Man of God went off track, and that i believe God holds me in higher regard than a donkey. They didn't like it, but it's our role for one another to address the sin, not to repent for them. We can learn what to do and what not to do from one another, yet at the end of the day, we're still brothers and sisters. Once we're all unified under obedience to His Word and Love for Him and one another, we can really shine in this dark world. Please do not give up on each other -- always pray, always hope, always persevere. Some of us had to stay away, as oppose to fall away, in order to preserve our relationship with our Abba. Seek out a fellowship in the interim. Many ICOC churches have reunified with COC churches and work in cooperation with other locations without a central leader, only Christ as Head. 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Ahaha!!!! Ok….im launching a ministry with Cru on a campus…I’m meeting other ministries in respect and agreed to a study with them. They went through the whole bereans thing also. Which, in fact, I appreciated. I went to their church and there were definitely a lot of spirit filled Christians. But definitely young in their faith and knowledge. I’ll be praying for these students and hopefully getting them in sound doctrine
Thankyou for this video!!! The ICC was evangelizing on my campus in Amsterdam. I talked with them and they were so nice. Went to a couple of their meetings, doing fun activities and nice Bible studies. Then I went into their Bible studies program. They told me I shouldn't look them up online (which I just did now🙈) because people were talking bad about them. They told me this was because Jesus told us already that true Christians will be persecuted, like He was. Also they told me I wasn't saved based on the fact I wasn't water baptized. This was a major shock for me, I love God with all my heart and have accepted Jesus as my Savior. But they showed me a couple verses throughout the Bible which makes it look like water baptism is necessary for salvation. I told them I wanted to check it myself, and read the Bible books as a whole, to understand the full context. At that point the pastors wife, who was giving me the Bible study, got so mad at me (?!). Mad at me for wanting to read the Bible????? She said she felt personally attacked, that I didn't love her and that I should just trust her. She told me that the Devil is attacking me to not see the (their) truth. She told me that she was so hurt, she was a mother and now she couldn't be with her kids because she made the time for me. I had to apologize to her... it was completely insane. Today I studied the Bible for 8 hours straight, prayed to God to reveal the truth and I can see so clearly that they are lying!! Praise God that I didn't get in too deep! Now I hope people see this video and read people's comments and know the truth about this church (cult)!!! God bless🙏🏼
I think you're talking about the VU campus, I got in touch with some guys from ICoC as well just about 4 weeks ago. After 2 'Bible studies' I said I wanted to study the rest of the Bible myself and then they said things like: 'don't let pride get in your way', 'we care about you and want to save you', 'you never know when God decides it's time to go, an 18 years old friend of mine passed away 4 days after he was baptised'. They even implicitly said that God would keep letting bad things happen in my life until I repent, so I should decide quickly before something terrible would happen to myself or the people around me..
@@abanoubiskander1499 Yes, VU campus! I'm so sorry that they treated you like that too! It is a very good thing you want to study the Word for yourself, I'm glad you do🤗 They are really placing themselves in the place of God.. you are prideful because you don't want to believe everything they say right away..that's very manipulative BS! I'm happy you see that :) There are a lot of false prophets out there! Shame and guilt aren't from God, conviction is :) Hope you are doing okay and God bless you🙏🏻
@@michellekoornneef5246 It's okay haha, at first I was very happy to hear about their impressive stories how they came (back) to faith since I hadn't really met Dutch youth in a while that actually believed and was happy to do a 'Bible study' with them. I however quickly noticed there was something fishy about it and that they were pressuring me to quickly take a decision and once I said that it requires time, they said that others decided quickly and that needing time implies a lack of faith😐 (a bit similar to the pastor's wife you mentioned haha) I however believe that some or maybe even most of them are genuine and really believe this is the way and wanted the best for me, so we just need to pray for them and ourselves to get as close as possible to the way God wants us to live. Luckily I'm perfectly fine and the discussions I had with them encouraged me to study more and the past couple of days I have been studying a lot more, tho i didn't reach 8 hours on a day I think😄 Maybe meeting them was for the better Hope you are doing fine as well and God bless you too!
@@abanoubiskander1499 Aahh that's great, that it encouraged you to study the Bible more! Haha yeah the 8 hours was just one time bc they really got into my head and I needed to knowww what God said! But I'm grateful like you because since they pushed me so much to believe their way of thinking, I was like, hold up, what does the Word actually say, and ever since I've been reading my Bible consistently whereas before I didn't really read it🙈 Also I'm wanting to get baptized, not because "it saves" like they are saying, but I think it's actually a beautiful thing that Jesus said we should do (took me a whiiiile to get there bc I was getting really reluctant about it since they pushed it so much and said it's what saves you). Sooo God can turn bad things into good for sure :) Yes I had the same impression, that most of them actually believed this and that they were doing something good. So we should for sure be praying for them 🙏🏻 that they will see that manipulation, hostility, shame and guilt are not Christian and not from God. Thankyou for sharing your story about it! Enjoy the summer and God bless 🙌🏼
@@michellekoornneef5246 Haha i get it, i spent a whole lot of hours as well studying the Bible after meeting them. Good for you that you still decided to get baptized! It's sometimes hard to change your opinion on something you became reluctant about because of the way others portrayed it to you, very happy to hear that through continuing reading yourself and being open you now still want to get baptized! Even though most denominations have different views on the exact meaning/function of baptism, almost all of them see it as a very important sacrament and i also see it as something important, so I'm happy to hear you're willing to get baptized!😃 Wishing you a great summer as well, and who knows we'll meet each other on campus one day😄
I left icc in March this year and since then I’ve been considering coming on RUclips to share my experience...I haven’t made up my mind though. I was in the church for four years!
Whether you want to share it online or not is up to you. People who leave the ICC might find it helpful to listen to someone with similar experiences. But I would say that talking to others about your experience can really help you process things personally. It can be very helpful.
I left the ICC in March too. It was incredibly difficult for me to get out of it. Since then I’ve thought about sharing my experience just as you have but I decided that I needed to wait until I was posting something out of love and not spite. I think I’m finally to the point where I genuinely want to help instead of hurt. Posting is completely up to you but I believe it can definitely make a difference!
Emmett! You have done a marvelous work of God! Sadly, there are many wonderful, sincere Christians inside of that cult, and I think some will find grace and salvation. Unfortunately, those closer to the higher echelon of the cult could fall victims to deception and the snare of powers...My prayers for those suffering personal attacks inside of a cult, because most religious systems could be twisted for the “will-to-power” of the few masters on top. If you are out there seeking to joining a church, you must be cautious, and stay out of serious trouble by paying heed to “the experts on the psychology of the cultic mind.” I subscribed to your channel.
Hi I’m one of them, I’m one of those sincere Christians who was inside of this, because I don’t know what I’ve got myself into. I was made to confess that I wasn’t a disciple even though deep down in my heart I feel I am. Now I’m really nervous what they’re going to tell me today because in one hour I’m going to the study. I heard about that person who claims himself as a leader, a man of God or some thing, I heard of him, this shepherd by the name of Lance Underhill, was preaching the sermon and he talked about, I don’t know how to pronounce his name in dictation cannot spell his name. I dictate my comments since I am blind. But I think, I think my family were right, I think my boyfriend was right I think everybody was right I’m just really naïve, yes I was ready to face persecution. Yes I was ready for anything they asked, but some part of the study really really got me, and that is when I began to realize that they might be a cult and that the people who are persecuting them are actually right. This was all because I wanted some sighted friends, this was all because I wanted someone to take me to church and this was all out of desperation, but now I know desperation gets you nowhere, I have been manipulated into the wrong thing, but I’m thinking of leaving, are they going to guilt trip me and tell me that I’m going to hell if I leave? I hope Jesus would not really do that to me because I still love Jesus
@@trianacotera853 Wow this is really horrible that they have done that to you! It is great that you understand what they are doing so you must find a way out even if this means cutting them off which it likely will. I know that is hard and will hurt but the sadness is worth it to protect you from much deeper and worsening pain if you keep allowing them to deceive you. I hope this helps
@@trianacotera853 Hey. If you`re still dealing with this, make sure you have a support system place like any family, friends, or a psychologist outside the group so you won`t feel alone to help you get out.
On a side note, I had a friend who still goes to this church and at a party at my house I found out that he was getting telephone numbers of guests to 'hang out' but never indicated to them it was about church. I had no issue if people wanted to speak about God, their church etc, heck even invite them, but being deceitful about it was alarming!
Thanks for the video, my cousin has fallen in sadly. I have a great congregation and while I learned a lot of good things from the short amount of studies I've done with my cousin, my danger sensors went off when they started trying to cut me off from my current congregation.
I was approached by them a few months back. They told me the same thing of doing Bible study, but something seemed off and they completely disregarded that I was already part of another church. I noticed they would ask me particular questions about my church, kind of like to prove that my church taught a false doctrine. When I mentioned that I was baptized with my congregation, they didn’t seem happy about it either. That took my by surprise. Recently, my husband started doing to “bible studies” and he quickly also sensed something off.
Hello Emmett! I really appreciate this video. I was in the ICC for alittle over 2 years and helped plant a church. I was exiled 7 months ago for dating outside the church. Since then I've been questioning my Salvation. I'm spiritually and emotionally hurt from it tbh. I'm grateful for this video bc it's definitely helped me with clarity. I barely read my bible bc i just felt so guilty. I miss being in the word and now I finally feel like I can start reading it without a guilty conscience. You did a great job and explain things very well. Thank you!!!! Hope you're doing well bro, pray for meeee plzzz !!! God bless 🙌🏻
Hey Jocelyn! I was briefly involved with the ICC around the time I became a Christian and have the same struggle with questioning my salvation. I can relate to how challenging the experience is. I pray the Lord gives you grace to have full confidence in your salvation and have a rich spiritual life! 🙏🏾
I’m so sorry about how you were treated by them. I was in the ICOC many years ago (almost the exact same organization). I just want to be clear about something , and this is not to cause you pain but it is something I went through after I was taken out: their false gospel. ICOC and your group teaches a false gospel that is works based. They teach you that you must be water baptized to be saved and misuse verses like John 3:5 and acts 2:38. The problem is that they are giving you to believe a false gospel that can harm you spiritually and keep you separated from God. The true biblical gospel is that Jesus died to pay for your sins and rose again to give you new life. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).His death and resurrection is applied to you freely by grace through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). There is nothing you can do to add to what Jesus did; trusting or adding to it by your works (including baptism) nullifies grace (Romans 11:6). If you still think that your water baptism saves you in whole or in part, I implore you to repent of this and trust solely in Christ alone for your salvation. God bless!
@@TomPlantagenetHello, thanks much for your comment. I've come here to inquire about this actually. I do however have a question, If we are saved by grace and faith alone, and you don't need to be baptized in order to be saved, why does Jesus say In John 3:3-7 “Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’” John 3:5-7 NIV
@@blazefl4me water and the Spirit is not a reference to water baptism but to God’s cleaning and regeneration in Ezekiel 36:25-27. God promises to cleanse His people. People assume it’s baptism, but that is not in view here. Hope that clears it up.
Honestly this “church” is all about control and money. They constantly practice favoritism to those who are more spiritual, while those who are struggling are silenced and ignored. In my time of need, I was left to the wolves because I wasn’t spiritual enough. They don’t care about people, they care about their bottom lines. You’re pressured to baptize, give money and sacrifice. I advise everyone to read Gabe Reed’s letter before joining.
The leader Garrett and Hedi were rude, forgetful and constantly telling me I needed to forgive one the fellow child abusers in the group. Amber and Brandon very much admitted to shaking their baby and Hedi and Garret Bradely both just allowed for them to continue to have access to other church members children. Very negligent.
I grew up in the ICOC in the south. I left at 18, as soon as I was able to do so. I moved out of my parents house, and never once went back. All the manipulation, all the guilt trips and power plays... Not to mention the absolute travesty that was the youth camps. I can't imagine it actually being in my head, I can't imagine lying to myself that I'm happy like they do.
What I find quite amazing is that Kip had the audacity to create a non-accredited college, and then give himself and his wife a doctorate from it.....and everybody seems fine with that....
thank you for brotha, when i first left, it was a dark cloud on my walk, often hearing constantly their voices in my head claiming that I walked away, one year later faith stronger than ever, people need to be more aware, their theology is very slippery & misguided
This is actually a good point. Personally I was kind of aware that this was about becoming a christian or at least a member of the church. However, you are right in that being asked to study was not made clear that I was studying to become a member. In hindsight, they should have asked at the beginning if they were interesting to study in order to become a Christian first.
I made so many 'friends' but they disappeared as soon as I told them I wasn't going to dump my fiancé. They knew I was lonely generally so it really hurt me.
This is what I have to say about the city of Angels now, I’m glad now I left before I got baptized, if I was a member and then I left, that would guilt and shame me. I’m glad I left in the meantime I was studying, in the first studies it was a OK and I loved it a lot, I thought you know what I’m not giving this up for anybody, I’ll give anything for God, but I thought that anything wouldn’t mean my relationship. Because that person also believes in God and wants to study as well. But then when, we got to the study about the darkness, I did the persecution study and everything else, but when we got the darkness one, they told me that if I don’t leave the one I’m with, I’ll never make it to the light. They want me to date with in their kingdom or something like this, I’m not gonna lie, I’m very depressed now that I’ve left them yesterday last night. I love the feeling I got as a blind person being driven by a group of sided friends in which I thought were friends. When we went to Bible study when I first heard of it I also thought the same thing that we were all going to study as a group. But no I ended up being the student and they were the ones as a disciples making disciples. I felt treat it like a second classes in while everybody else was treated better, because their members and their baptized with them. They were over nice to me they were overly nice to me and very sweet to me, but then, they left me behind, as if I wasn’t even there and only one of the members saw that I was alone. I just really had a bad bad ending experience with them, and when I started to cry, rather than comforting me they told me that Satan was taking over my heart. And although my heart is broken and crushed, I’m glad I left.
You made the right decision my friend 100%. You will heal and be stronger because of this experience, and you will find people who treat you right because they are good, not in order to get something from you
You'll be Ok. You know now that that was a lie, not the whole thing, but yeah, only being able to date in the church is one of the saddest lies pushed to the singles by this Church. *"The Church is not a building made by human hands, as if God needed* *anything, but the Church is in you, you are the Church!* So you, do you. And do right by him and get married or plan too instead of living together. Make it right in that way, ask God and pray. Read if your not quite ready. The Lord is with you and wants the best for you.
@Emmett Kellogg Hi Emmett! Thank you so much for your video! I’ve been approached once in California and quite a few times here in Washington DC with ICC. I have a friend who’s deeply embedded in this cult. I listened to your whole video because I wanted to learn more about this and it was terrifyingly accurate. I’m already part of a biblical and theological church and I’m thankful by God‘s grace that I’ve been able to discern such false teaching. I really appreciate this and I’ll be sharing your video with others to warn them. I have a friend like I mentioned earlier in this comment who’s been deeply embedded in this “church” and I am definitely going to pray for her and seek wisdom on how to hopefully get her out of it. But that’s ultimately by God’s grace and mercy. I will add as well when I first went to her church in DC because I was looking for a church ( keep in mind I already had a church I was planning on visiting i.e. I’m going there now). Two of their friends got my number and met with me yesterday virtually and try to convince me that I was basically lost without coming out and saying. Their view baptism was completely incorrect. They were saying that you’re not saved by Christ alone. It’s horrifying the accuracy of the information you’ve been giving. Thank you brother we appreciate it.
@@olobangura1805 look into the orthodox Christian church. It was instituted by the apostle Peter, it has a history going back 2000 years, and has a unified doctrine. They’re the one that put the original canon of the Bible together In the first place.
I almost got inducted into the ICC. It was the grace of God which preserved me and kept me away as soon as I learned baptism was required for salvation.
@@chimeziekanu9210 Okay. So based on Acts 2:38 alone, does it mean God needs my cooperation in order for Him to put His Spirit in me, and hence for me to be saved?
This has got to be the most well balanced video on the ICC. We need more biblically minded ex icc/icoc’ers to expose these guys. The main reason why most members don’t leave is because they think they’re the only ones who have it right - videos like this expose the cracks from a logical and biblical perspective
very interesting video man! Though I can see your viewpoints and perspectives clear and concisely, I think I can't entirely agree. I usually don't reply to things like this, but I'm going to pray and do some digging and get back to you. I would love to have a conversation offline if possible. God bless !
It's not necessary for anyone to agree with this video entirely or even a little. This guy's putting his experience out there. Your experience is probably different. And that's actually ok. I'm in the ICC still and I think there are so many elements that we have wrong about what Jesus intended for his followers. My ministry is not a "one off"... it's a reflection of our group's culture... and we are about numbers. Numbers produces money to build. We're exclusive and this is proven when because we don't really allow anyone to repent and be baptized in another church group. And when someone leaves, they're a fall away. If that isn't about exclusivity and numbers, I don't know what else is. It affects everything about our culture which is also evidenced in the preaching at midweeks, our devos, our retreats, the Sunday sermon, right down to the Communion message. That's my experience though but I'm still trying to navigate this path with God. For the record, I very much believe followers of Jesus exist outside of our icc group. And like Jesus, I don't think there's a need to stop them or condemn them or force them to be united with us "or else they're just proud" (Mark 9:38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." 39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.)
My older cousin never said anything about this church. In fact I recall one time when she raise $3,500 dollars by herself and donated her student family so they could afford the school supplies for their child aka her student. They were also not a part of her church and they legit told her that she went against the word of god. On top of that, she used to be the best dress in our family; now I see her struggle to wear a tank top. This church ruin her kindness and her confidence. She going through depression but I’m happy she is getting help. But not once have she spoken Ill of them but they have. They have reach out to her and notify her that she would be in hell if she doesn’t return. I’m glad she has not and never will be, she got serious depression and ptsd from “amen bro… preach… let God handle it” phrases. She literally freaks over “disciple lingo” I hope this church is exposed! They ruin a soft soul.
It takes a while for many to recover after leaving the ICC. Depression, anxiety, and PTSD are all common. Hopefully by understanding how they operate it can help her heal. Let her know that she is not alone and many people have struggled through the same thing. Weeping may tarry for the night, but joy comes with the morning. I will be praying for your cousin.
Wow. This feels like a slap in the face but it’s also true, these people seem like really loving loving loving genuine people but now that I’m looking into this and reading these comments, I better keep an open I mentally. They told me something that really hurt me in the study, that’s why I’m thinking of leaving, but I’m going again today to see what they want to say. I’m really nervous, but helping me, I mean reading these comments is helping me prepare to be hurt once I tell them that I’m done. This is horrible, this is just horrible, and they seem like great people, but the devil manipulates so they manipulate, so how the Bible base if they’re doing something so satanic by manipulating people
@@trianacotera853 I can’t say that my cousin experience is the same as yours but I can tell you it is scary seeing it from an outside perspective. My cousin was the loudest funniest gentle and so confident. Now she is quiet still gentle but so insecure about herself and what she does. She is moving forward and gaining more and more each day. But I legit fear that she may return. But it’s not looking like it since she has now told them to shut up and stop stalking her.
@@koromalee888 well I will pray for your cousin, no one should have to go through any kind of PTSD or depression because of this, I just left them yesterday, right after commenting, I was supposed to do a Bible study with them and I did, and I knew what they were about to do, they’re so strict and they don’t believe in disciples dating somebody who is not a disciple, not just a non-believer by somebody who is not baptize only in their kingdom. I don’t have anything else to say about them either too much, but when I started crying, you would expect because their disciples come out they would comfort me and hug me or something like that, they didn’t, and one of them even started laughing silently but I still heard it. I felt treated badly, because I wouldn’t give in, therefore I had to leave before I wait for my self to get baptized before they put me on a guilt trip, I still feel depressed because it was the hardest decision to do, since I am blind I desperately want to friends I could see and that would drive me and everything else and I liked it, when they took me for a ride to church and everywhere else. And it was sad that I had to give this up, but at the same time, look I’m willing to give anything and everything for God but my relationship, I feel in my heart glorify God, because my partner also believes strongly in God. But because it’s not of their kingdom, that’s why it wasn’t approved, and so, I either had to stay there and leave my boyfriend because of this, or leave them but not my boyfriend, and I chose the second option. They shouldn’t be dominating or dictating my life like this or anyone else’s life like that
I want to thank you so much for this video, my girlfriend and I are doing long distance right now for school, and I am a Biblical studies student so I started to sus out her church (she wasn’t too far in, she was at the light and darkness study or whatever they call it) and this video was super duper helpful for her, she just left so she is now dealing with the harassment and all of that, so pray for us and wish her luck 😅 Really I can’t stress how much this video helped us so thank you again!
Update: We are getting married in a week and now attend a First Baptist church although we are church shopping so my fiancé still considers herself non denominational until we find a church that fits our needs and ability to give to the community. I was genuinely amazed by the level of persistence that the ICC in her area had, but due to our life situation we were blessed enough that rather than deal with the problem my fiancé just decided to attend my college so she was able to move away from where her problems started. While it upset me greatly that they contacted her after she made it clear she didn’t want to be contacted, what I will say (even if it is a silver lining) is that the Disciples who had worked with her seemed genuinely to care about her salvation and while it was totally inappropriate they were either the best actors in the world or really felt that she was abandoning salvation by leaving the church. So tldr: while I personally do feel that the ICC is a cult on an institutional level, and I am glad to have my loved one be safe away from their influence, I also think that at least at some level (the disciples that worked with my fiancé and the local pastor) the people were genuine and meant only the best for those that they discipled.
@@johngalt5166 For me when I left, they kept emailing me about their events even though I no longer wanted anything to do with them. I closed down that email and created a different one. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to do with my number. I blocked all their numbers and I`m not sure if they`ve still been contacting me because of that. But it was over a year ago so I wouldn`t know whose number is who. But they probably stopped a long time ago.
Do you have an update video? It would be nice if you did! The sex absuse cases and Kip Mckean's retirement for "spiritual faltering" is very disturbing!!
I'm supposed to get baptized tommorow. But now I realize it's a cult. However, I left a jacket at my mentors house. It's my most expensive piece of clothing. What do I do? I need to leave but I also need to get my jacket back lol
Wow Typical response from someone from ICC ("...you probably weren’t ready to be a disciple of Jesus.") talk about using the bible to make you feel guilty. You most likely are ready but you need to true church to find your way.
Hey! Would you be interested to do a joint video about this? I had an experience of them very similar to you and am really hurt for those still in the church. Let me know if you'd like to chat!
By Gods supernatural intervention I was firmly grounded in the book of Hebrews when they invited me to their Bible studies. I had a great Nkjv study Bible with an extensive topical index. Even though I was only 4 months into reading the Bible I systematically brought up multiple verses that refuted their salvation by works false doctrines. I was surprised at how bad they took it. I naively thought we where their to study the Bible. I was blamed of having a religious demon. I was told I wasn’t really saved because I admitted to relapsing to the sin of porn a few weeks ago after a long streak of abstinence. Thank God I found the orthodox Christian church which has apostolic succession tracing back to the apostle Peter, has one unified doctrine, and thousands of years of solid Holy Spirit inspired history.
Just curious, as i would like for churches claiming to be Christian to be unified, does this church teach repentance and immersion for the forgiveness of sins and the receipt of the Holy Spirit, as Peter taught?
@@kehaulani1467he Orthodox Christian in Antioch was directly founded by St Peter and is still in existence in Damascus. I’m not exaggerating when I say there isn’t a single orthodox service where we won’t ask the Lord for his mercy at least a hundred times. A lot more on many days. Our liturgy hasn’t changed since the 2nd century AD. I’ve never known such repentance as when I joined the orthodox Christian church.
I mean no offense but the Orthodox teaching is similar to ICOC regarding baptism. Nearly identical. So then, what is this salvation by "works" you refer to? @@davefigthe3rd
Just seeing your post. I started Bible studies with them . First Bible was great I was fired up, then I notice how they directly and indirectly tried to say the church I am attending is false teaching ( they don’t even know the church ) then the being a disciple is the only way to be saved , I was shocked . I am ending this Bible study immediately.
Hi does anyone know anything about the ICC branch in London UK? I was recently invited to some of their bible studies but the Holy Spirit allowed me to sense and see a number of red flags, then prompt me to investigate. What I've found so far about the ICOC is not good. But I havent found much info on the London branch. If anyone knows anything I'd really appreciate it
Their doctrine seems off. I did a couple of Bible studies with them when I was new to the Bible and they told me that my grandmother was a fake Christian and going to hell because she didn't get baptised and they believe that's a requirement for salvation. They also don't study whole books from the Bible, nor their context, which makes it easy for people who are new to the religion to fall into the ICC trap and believe their doctrine. Then, when I told the person who was "discipling" me that I took the studies into my own hands and started reading the Bible for myself and studying it with the aid of the Holy Spirit she tried telling me that I'm doing Christianity wrong and that I'm supposed to have another disciple teach me.
@@emmettkellogg7565 this video is 100% correct and is in no way meant to defame the Church. Myself and my wife were apart of this Church for many, many years. It was helpful, and positive sometimes, how ever some of the tactics used by this Church are far from healthy, or positive. We left after I had years of questions, which are a unspoken rule not to ask. I heard a lesson one time in which they used scripture in telling the membership to be " careful about outside people, and groups that can take you away from God ". It was at that point that I thought I don't want my kids to be raised in this environment among other things.
Hello emmett I’ve just seen this video yesterday and I feel I’ve seen it a little late my younger brother has been going to icc for about a year now and I feel I’ve failed to notice these things I really need help it’s breaking up my family. Being from a single mother home she’s crushed.
This is some of what was said to me verbatim when I decided not to show up to get baptized. “Hey bro i don’t know what we did to you personally but I did believe we were truly friends. So are we not cool no more because I associate with GOD? I know we are better than this bro. Look at whats happened, you are willing to throw a friendship away because you saw the truth that you have always prayed for? Im still here for you bro Im just a little hurt.” I only knew them for two weeks… here’s some more. After a bit of discussion he proceeded to send me this. “Hey bro I was praying this morning and I thought of you and these questions. 1. Does your relationship with GOD look the same as before or is it growing? 2. Do you honestly believe that where you are is with GOD. 3. Are you still willing to hear your questions answered by the Bible. 4. Is your family Lord of your life or is Jesus Lord. I love you bro and haven’t forgot about you, don’t stop seeking out answers from GOD and don’t do it alone. Let’s sit down and talk bro.” I mentioned to him that they made a lot of assumptions about my faith and relationship with God. After that he backed down a bit. I had told them multiple times that I had already studied all of the scripture they were showing me and they kept trying to convince me that I didn’t know anything and couldn’t search scripture on my own. They’d say “Doesn’t that make you emotional?” And I said “Not really because I’ve already read that and have come to accept it. No, I didn’t know what I was getting into. Their goal seems to be to get you in person to pressure you 2-on-1 or 3-on-1. To give a more rounded perspective of what I experienced, they were actually a normal kind of friendly people and could have regular conversations with them I went to a good amount of their gathering. However they kept trying to rush me into getting baptized (again) In their Bible studies they always took notes for me and sent me their material. Just haven’t gotten the chance to look it over it all again. However I know their doctrine fairly well because of it. They emphasize being baptized in water as the main means to salvation alongside Jesus. Almost so much so, it seemed the water during baptism was more important than faith in Christ. I told them they could email me answers to my questions, but they didn’t want to do that. If you really want to know there whole belief I recommend purchasing Kip McKean’s book “First Principles and follow up studies” on Amazon They also kept telling me I couldn’t get the book until I was baptized and after I was baptized they’d give me a new Bible than the NKJV study Bible I had, which was also weird.
High Control Groups are the worst. They are like onions with all the layers of good faith and lovely people helping their fellow brothers and sisters (if they're in good standing that is) woven together between even more layers of disgusting, abuse, money grabbing and getting as many new members through the door, "ya know, ya gotta get those numbers up$$$" that is a Multi Level Marketing scheme. Just like Scientology does, & the IRS really should take away the tax exemptions from these orgs/cults. Imho They certainly don't deserve it.
I see what you are saying. However, most people believe that just because they believe in God, Christ, went to their parents church, and raised in a church think that they are Christian and they are not. Most churches are not helping people arrive at an biblical understanding about who they really are.
The phrase 'word of God' doesn't even mean the scriptures in Judaism. This is one of the foundational misunderstandings in the icoc that make the Bible out to be some kind of stand alone instructional manual that it isn't, and instead take snippets of verse filtered through their own assumptions. Sorry to break it to you, but the Second Great Awakening of the 19th century just introduced more complications into the religious landscape and Kip took that as his religion, but with an Amway spin. It can have some positive aspects if someone is using that Appalachian American frontier spirituality to repress their most harmful pathologies, but usually at best, they merely dealing with the veneer of their problems with adding on new neurotic obsessions.
I am currently in the ICC and have had to start going to a psychiatrist and therapist because my experience has traumatized me… I got diagnosed with multiple things but my therapist thinks I have C-PTSD.
The main problem is that they have a false gospel that teaches water baptism is required for salvation. The thief on the cross is the best example of why this is false.
It does not tell you that water baptism is a symbol but a type. And those are two very different things. In fact most translations wrestle with how to get this word right because symbol is far too empty and "symbolic". So they use words like corresponds to or a figure of. I would urge you to reconsider your view on this passage. Baptism is a salvation event given by God. And it is God's work. Not ours. @@lotusjumpingspider8761
I nearly got to the kingdom study and then I backed out - they are not just bible studies! They test the waters to see if you're willing to leave everything behind for them (In the name of Jesus) by cherry picking verses.
Mr. Finestead, if you pay heed to Emmett’s excellent video on the psychology of the cult, you may aver the fact that some of us are simply too trusting and sheepish. First rule when you go out into society is to be aware of the reality of a world ever-spinning with trouble, scandals and serious challenges to keeping “the theatrics of society under the safe haven of the authority.” The truth is that the psychology of the cult-mentality is as complicated as “the mentality of the proselyte or the neophyte, “ because at times, some of us are more vulnerable than others to falling trap into these all-too-human vicious schemes of powers and deceptions. That they can put on the facade of piety, charity and “ministers of light” should not surprise us. Now, from an existential perspective, the complex issues of life, i.e., meaning and purpose, religious cults could attract some of the most wonderfully sincere, “loving people with a strong itching for cultism,” metaphysics, idealisms, et al., and this may explain why some folks are “totally at home in a cult” even when others may find it pernicious or harmful.
@@emmettkellogg7565 oh wow, thank you. I just made a friend from the London ICC Church and they have invited me to visit and I was planning to visit that's why I asked for clarification.
@@CoCoDeLaCruZ ask if you can be a part of church without tithing and with no discipling partner. Or if you can go to any church you want after being baptized
I don't think they were a cult perse, but they sure came close too it. For instance affluent Cities experienced more "cult like" behavior than say urban Cities. Rich or well off people for some reason than poorer communities. You had white people using the word "cult" more so than it's Black members. So I think it depends on where you were, your socio economic level, your age *(easier to take advantage of College Kids)* vs married couples or older adults most times. But Kip was a maniac in my opinion. From the first time I met him and saw people fawning all around him treating him like he was Jesus Christ is when I thought to myself, "this is weird, why are they reacting to this guy like they are?" I'd always found that strange. Special contribution just kept asking for more and more money. We had our own network *KNN* which became propaganda to me, not at first, but after a while. we even had our own lingo. For ex; a *VWA* was a *"visitor with an attitude"* lol It was programming. Those who didn't read the bible for themselves and study God's word on their own were spoon fed the *"Shining like Stars Series"* in the order it was given with no questions asked. Those who did, if they weren't satisfied with the explanation, they were deemed divisive. But the biggest danger sign on the Church for me was *"We were the the true Church, the only ones saved"* and that right there is cult talk! So after 13 years my husband and I being bible talk leaders *(and that was a whole other story,*) decided we had learned all we could *(and I honestly learned a lot btw)* but felt I couldn't leave like, where would I go. I would cry and cry and pray and cry some more. Then the *Henry Kriete letter* came out and that was it! I was *out,* knowing my relationship with God was still in tact!
Sounds like a cult to me. It took here condemnation from a world sector leader to even leave. Not trying to come at you but it speaks to the amount of mind control you were in. Glad you’re out now though
I think the original commenter is saying they control who you spend your time with. They take up all your time with all the events they host and make you attend so you don’t become “weak” in the Faith.
As a current member, I could understand how the behavior is cult-like. I was very uncomfortable with it for the first 3 ish months, but I eventually just had the mindset to set a better example for others so they dont struggle with their faith. I would say my main reason for staying is because they take their teachings directly from the Bible. But I am very open to see how this sect preaches false doctrine.. I think it would be pretty cool to see how the church preaches false doctrine just to have the choice to think freely and critically. Because from my experience, what they preach does come directly from the Bible
@@jacoblabaniegos69 because they believe water baptism is salvific. It’s similar to Catholics believing transubstantiation (communion being the actual body). Or the Pharisees who believed circumcision is salvific. All those things are symbolic to what the creator does in us. 1 Peter 3:21 “…water now symbolizes….”. Paul denounces this heavily because they are works based. Romans 4:4-5. Of course you have to harmonize this with James 2 but ICC and ICOC for that matter focus on one end instead of both and do a poor job harmonizing different scriptural text
@@lotusjumpingspider8761 In context, 1 Peter 3:20-21 talks about the flood with Noah, using this event as an example of how Noah and his family was saved in water. 1 Peter 3:21 "and this water symbolizes baptism that now also saves you- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience towards God" Roman's 4:4-5 does talk about works without faith (if you are working without having faith, what you do will feel like an obligation) since the chapter is talking about Abraham who is considered the father of faith. And in context, Paul is talking about circumcision, which those practicing Judaism were boasting about in front of the Gentiles. Now I agree that baptism alone does not save you. If I grabbed a random person in the street and threw them in a lake, I did nothing but get them wet. But Colosians 2:12 does talk about how we are saved through faith at baptism (and please feel free to read in context to verify so I am not spreading misinformation) I used to believe that baptism was a sign to show an inward garce, but Roman's 6:2-4 does talk about it being an active participation in the death and resurrection in Christ. I kinda agree that the Church gets too excited in talking about working for God and could forget to tell newcomers the why. Which asking questions or being honest could help.
I’m new to the ICC on campus, however I haven’t experienced anything like this. All of the leaders and people in the group are extremely open to me, and they don’t claim to be special in any way shape or form. In fact they have repeated that they are not perfect citing experiences from their past, and showing how they have changed. I’m very interested to learn more about this, and talk about this.
Believe every word of this video! My husband and I left the church after a couple years exactly because of their cultish behavior and erroneous theology.
@@jrpbgp This video was well thought out and seems pretty unbiased in that it does not attack members nor does it tell people they should not participate in the ICC. The video merely points out some cultic or concerning practices and teachings of the ICC, which people have been stressing for decades. Despite these concerns being repeatedly brought up the ICC fails to properly address or eliminate its harmful teachings and practices. If being given more information about this organization “sways” people, then maybe they should be swayed. People have a right to make a fully informed decision when it comes to getting involved with this group.
My only consideration before calling a church occult is when there belief touches the doctrines on salvation. There belief about water baptism required in salavation is occult.
There are different reasons why a group would be categorized as a cult. The first is the way that they function and behave. The second one, which is prevalent when discussing certain Christian/pseudo-christian groups is whether or not they preach the true gospel.
@@emmettkellogg7565 every church has the right to be different how it operates and functions which depends on ther culture, geographical location and etc. Though each church may be different but all should be united when it comes to the main doctrine established by the church fathers to identify the true church from the occults. Meaning that the churches may be different when it come to the minor doctrines that affect not the salvation.
I have a scripture I wanted to share with you. It describes the church you're talking about in a nutshell. Some people call this scripture the jewel in the gospels & I agree ! Mark 8:34-38 34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels. Verse 35 is the key verse & describes the commitment a person makes to be a disciple of Jesus. We all have/had worldly dreams about what we were doing with our lives. We all have an agenda, desires, ambitions, goals, plans. But Jesus says we are to give up our earthly life & live for him. He has to be our Lord! He says we are to lose our earthly life for him. He also says we do it for the gospel; meaning proclaim the gospel. Being a fisher of men, seeking & saving the lost, making disciples. We help others out of the world & repent of their sin. We still have dreams & plans, but the will of God becomes first place. This is the commitment we make to God. Verses 36, 37 show it's a matter of salvation! This whole passage shows characteristics of being a disciple of Jesus. For example; denying self, carrying your cross & following Jesus. Being his disciple is the most Noble life anyone could ever live! You have become a minister of reconciliation & an ambassador of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:1- 6:18 It's the greatest adventure & when you die; you get to be with God for eternity! It's the greatest joy, peace & meaning anyone could ever experience ! ! !
Losers and abusers , they have a special place in hell for the leaders and such for exploiting and abusing and disrespecting God, Jesus and people who were in a vulnerable state or very young and away from home at college. I know some people in the ICC and its everything in there life they are not living just existing like drones its sad . I have much more to say about this but not today . Be safe everyone and think for yourself and pray anywhere and anytime he will listen .
I am currently in seminary so my time is limited. I am planning to make more as soon as I can. Can you message me on FB? I’d love to get your input on what topics you’d find helpful.
@@emmettkellogg7565I would love for you to go deeper on thier 5 core convictions and how convoluted it is, especially central leadership and speak when the bible is silent.😊
I think they just want to operate according to the first century church in the Bible, which seems too fanatical to people in the 21st century. I don't think they should be called a cult because they won't hurt anyone who doesn't believe in them. But they do have almost harsh requirements for members of the church, just like Jesus’ requirements for his disciples in the Gospels. I'm neutral about it, I feel like I tried to be active with them but I couldn't, I respect the way they behave.
There isn't anything wrong with holding the standards of the original Church who walked with Jesus, the PROBLEM is when they ignore the rest of the New Testament that completely negates all of it as a necessity to being justified through a transition with Gospel given to the Gentiles (Romans 1) This is called rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) by them holding to the unecessary yoke laid on the original Churches necks, they've fallen from the grace of God and have now added works to Salvation which goes against Paul's gospel (Ephesians 2:8) No different than a 7th day Adventist or Sabbatarian preaching a false Gospel. They claim no autonomy between other denominations and belive they are the only ones who teach the truth, and anything else outside what they teach is "false doctrine" and will antagonize you if you'd choose to believe anything else. This is already a Cult by the very nature on how they control information and your thoughts.
@@GospelSaves Thanks for sharing these verses, I noticed these for the first time. Also when I think about it, the thing I feel most uncomfortable with is their exclusivity towards other churches. 1) When I said that I used to watch other churches’ worship live broadcasts on RUclips, they refused to comment. 2) When I told them I wanted to go to another church, they told me there was no way God could save me from other churches. Of course, since I haven’t been very involved with them yet, I haven’t experienced the mental trauma of leaving ICC that others have mentioned. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
thanks to kip my church has a bad rep cause of his behavior and those close to him for the sins he was in. kip actually mispend church money for his personal trips.
The Bible explicitly teaches that we become lost because of our sins. Your argument of not confronting people is irrelevant. John 8:31-34 2 Corinthians 5:16-19
As an ICC member, I’ll just ask you to read Acts 5:17-42. Then, I want you to carefully consider whether or not this video was a wise one to make. That’s all I’ll say, peace be with you.
Stand up for the truth and don't worry about the outcome. What isn't wise about exposing real experiences that's so far from what Jesus preaches and stand for? You're clearly brainwashed. Brushing things under the rug won't get you to the truth...
@@emmettkellogg7565 I made my decision to leave one of their NE churches this week. I can't listen to man tell me what God wants for me. Thats between God and me.
Everyone acts like this church is doing evil. They teach people to follow the Bible😭. They teach people to match their life with their doctrine and being working servants of God. Everyone talking about their experiences just sounds like emotions and that you’re putting your life first instead of God first. You guys are speaking upon emotions instead of scriptures . Matthew 28:19-20 commands us to go and make disciples of all nations and baptize them to follow God’s command … everyone is just another person looking for the easiest Blackdoor of being a Christian and being saved. Read the Bible.
No no, they teach people to follow them (ICOC/ICC), not the bible. This church was created in the 1970s; there is no way this church has any right to control who you can date & spend time with, nor where you can go to church, based on the Bible, mmk.And I left in 2021, this is not an old practice that was abandoned in 2003, since people love to argue that. The first church existed waaaaay before the 1970s creation of these organizations. To believe that all other churches have it wrong, and the excuse that "I'm sure other true churches exist but I haven't found one yet" being used as a justification for why you are only allowed to date people in your group and go to school, and work, and live in places where there is an icoc/icc, otherwise it is unwise and wrong of you to do so??? This is not biblical as you claim, this is high control and arrogance. God and Jesus never practiced high control, so please maybe study that out since you want to tell us we don't know the bible and what it teaches.
I've never seen anyone control who someone CAN or CANNOT date. They certainly aren't required to approve of anyone's dating choices. And, neither is God. Sure, dating may be a matter of conscience but that doesn't mean one is free to do whatever they please. @@RebekahLoves
Thank you for this video I was restored in October ,2020 Because of COVID my confession was filmed I was very open and honest It was put on RUclips public and it was on the ICOC Facebook page public It got taken down a few days later, but the damage was done I remained paranoid about it as what I said ...I can't believe I was so trusting No one ever apologized over it I left at Christmas so I could be with my old church I don't do happy holidays, I do Christ mas I'm still with God Any true church would of apologized Just be careful what you say. Its a really clear video you've done. God bless everyone
Your right on that one. I went and visited many times but the Lord just was not urging me back there. The congregation runs the Church now. The pendulum has swung way over to the other side. The messages are so watered down it's sad. Their even taking cues from the world now with words like "Karen" and concerned about how people are identifying gender wise. They're nothing like they used to be but a former shell of themselves. It's really pathetic. God taught me that I've out grown it. I have learned all I could there and now it's time to get out in the word and teach others what your story is. I would never bad mouth them even though they did the things they did because at the time they were once a good thing. But they look tired, and sad, and the same singles still waiting for a husband. They need to leave and get out in the real world but they are psychologically trapped in their minds. Some are just afraid they've been there so long. I pray for them. God loves them too, but they have to really want to know God and not be held captive mentally by the Church.
Emmett, thank you for a well done overview of Kip McKean's practices and what is taught within the ICC and founded in the ICOC. I would like to add this comment for clarification of who Kip believes himself to be. In a personal meeting with Kip and we discussed the abusive tactics and leadership of Tim Kernan and others, Kip stated the following. "Russ, one thing you must understand is that I am God's chosen leader. "To go against me, decisions I have made or leaders I put in place, it is as if you are going against God Himself". God has chosen me to lead His modern day movement." It was at this meeting that God made clear to me who Kip McKean believes he is, he believes that he has literally been chosen, not figuratively. May God use this to open the eyes of those who follow blindly and restore their sight only upon the Cross of Christ.
I'm a victim of this church
@@imriddenvlogs1077 I hope you are doing better. I don’t know your story but I can imagine it was spiritual abuse on some level. I can relate.
I was with the “Discipleship Movement” that was the genesis of this church and the ICOC. As my eyes 👀 opened more I was glued to all the Scriptures related to being led and anointed by the Holy Spirit. One of them First John 2:20-27. That and John 14 - 16 and then more in the NT and then OT. Long story short the Holy Spirit led me out. And although I have visited I still know to this day it was the right thing to do.
Some time after this I went to Calvary Chapel and moving to a new city eventually joined a Baptist church where the Bible is taught book by book and they’ve been in John for almost a year now. In an age of corrupt churches and televangelists there are some solid churches out there that are not so legalistic. I hope the ICC has not ruined your view of who Jesus Christ is. Kip is like the Pharisees who will not enter the kingdom of God and prevents those who are trying to enter. God is the judge but from what I read about false teachers he fits the bill.
Yup, sounds like Kip alright. I don’t understand how Kip left the ICOC, started the ICC, practiced the same doctrine when he started the ICOC, and expect a different result
Seems he accidentally told the truth. Hey, Russ!
I was a part of the ICOC during kip's reign...yeah he's a narcissist & delusional
They always say I have the free choice to leave at any point, but when I did want to leave, I was pressured to do just one more Bible study to answer any confusion I had. The guy I was speaking with also wanted to share my number with other members, and I said no. Thankfully, he respected my choice. Also they do group study for you, they take notes for you, they explain verses for you. There's 3 or 4 people trying to explain the word of God using verses taken out of context, and they pressure you to agree with what they say God wants from you.
Thank you for this video. I was apart of the ICOC and I did not have a full informed consent of what I was joining. I thought my Bible studies were for my closeness with God (which is what the ICOC members stated). I thought my baptism was for my salvation and then I was handed a membership form. I didn’t mind joining the church, but it did feel a little left field. I didn’t realize I was in ICOC until I asked ‘what do I call us’? I saw a ton of red flags that I pushed down for the sake of believing I was in a good speaker with good people. But the moment I had questions was the moment I became the black sheep. I was treated so poorly it pushed me to therapy. Therapy gave me a clean mental slate, and I thank God everyday that while I will never forget my experiences, I don’t feel anger, fear and agony for leaving.
I can relate so much to your feelings.
Hi, you said or you mentioned that they started treating you poorly I guess when you asked questions. I’d like to know what exactly did they do? I’m Triana, I am visually impaired,/blind physically but I guess I’m probably also blind mentally. The city of Angels ICC member recruited me actually at my very own school, I was walking from the cafeteria to sit at the lunch table, but I was trying to find whatever lunch table that’s empty that I could sit, because I’m an introvert I don’t like being around people sometimes, because of my disability, and this woman asked if I wanted to read the Bible and I took it as a kind gesture thinking nothing about it. They offered me to also come to a Bible talk at the mall with them at the church with them and again I thought nothing about it if anything I was really happy, finally someone to take me to church, but then getting into a few studies, I feel really really scared and uncomfortable now, and I’ve also felt left out and I was treated like second class well the members were treated better than me. What exactly did they do to you? I want to know everything because I wanna know what am I doing, who am I associating myself with and what have I got myself into, I love Jesus so much but what have I gotten myself into?
@@trianacotera853 get out! They are manipulative my friend. Watch this to understand how they deceive u: ruclips.net/video/VrbJZWRhC_A/видео.html
As well you should not. God bless you.
@@trianacotera853 Hi, I'm extremely sorry it took me so long to see this! I hope you're okay. I'll do my best to answer your questions briefly. The ICC is very much like the early 2000s version of the ICOC from what I hear. You may want to take a look at the Henry Kriete letter to give some context on what they people were experiencing, because I did not have the luxury of at least seeing it until I left. So I received welcoming energy when I was reached out out to, but I did notice that there were favoritism towards those that fit the status quo. I joined because they were some members that could relate to some of my experiences so I bonded with them. I was baptized within a month of beginning bible studies, because I was eager and do have a Christian background. Once I joined I was abandoned. All the welcoming energy I received immediately stopped. It was mostly about gaining numbers, so I was trained quickly on how to reach out and invite people to bible talks. The leaders were very determined to add to the church, so we're very pushy about strategy and keeping record of who we reached out to. If you weren't feeling comfortable, they may say things like, "You need to get fired up for God, we have to add to the number and save souls." It was exhausting. If you missed anything, people who call you and drill you about where you were and why you missed things. I was told because Jesus didn't take break I wasn't suppose to either. They were sometimes a bit more gentle, and more persuasive, but it was more of a love bombing technique. I remember being touched a lot, they were always adjusting my clothes, touching my hair, messing with my glasses. They didn't know proper physical and even emotional boundaries. There was a high pressure to share everything, secrets, sins/confessing, what you did everyday. We had 'encouragement dates', which were double dates. The women could not say no, as to not 'discourage' the men in the church. I was labeled 'struggling' for being exhausted from school (my major was demanding and the church is very time intensive). I was labeled 'savage' for being too honest or blunt. There was a label for relatively normal things, but labels spread fast in the church. To be labeled is to have a stigma on you, and everyone will know about it. Scripture does get twisted to establish rules to follow. It a heavy culture, and most of us struggled to think freely because we were in fear of being labeled. I was told if i didn't certain things I would not be talked to. I was cornered quite a bit for things like, "you didn't smile at me today", "you didn't give me a hug but you hugged someone else", "do you like one of the brothers". Everything that would normal like having a bad day, normally meant a slap on the wrist because "you have to show guest a good presentation of the kingdom of God." After so many slaps on the wrist you began to conform out of fear of being corrected. It was tough. I am very happy I did not stay long. The only reason I got out was because I was serving in a ministry and it gave me time to decompress from all the pressures of everyone in the church (everyone watches everyone). The ability to think for yourself is so important but so discourage. I'm sure I didn't cover everything, it is a lot. I'll keep an eye out for more notifications to continue this conversation if you need it because I do want you to be aware. Your biggest tool is the bible. Read if for yourself and allow the spirit to guide you. I would encourage you not to take on new burdens/rules/laws/chains if you have freed yourself through Jesus. One good podcast that I listen to if the Reclammation Podcast by Aldo B Martin. There are currently rolling out season 2. It's spot on with my experiences in the ICOC, and he does a good job of breaking the episodes down to 20min chunks. I think you should check it out. With who is leading the ICC, I'm sure things will be similar.
I lost a friend to this church, someone who was never really grounded in Scripture. She tried to recruit me back in 2017 as if I did not know she was doing. She saw me as lost despite my profession of faith and being Biblically literate. Her mind has been completely taken over by this group. It's amazing how her personality has shifted so much. This is what happens when you are unable to think for yourself. You will find someone who will think for you.
I agreed to "study the Bible" with them and I set up Biblical roadblocks to see what they would do. They were so confused. Their "first principles" studies take the place of the Bible itself. Clearly they do not do much plain reading to understand what is being said from the text without referring to Kip McKean's commentary. It's deceptive for them to say "study the Bible" when it means going through pre-determined passages from the Bible with no exegesis. It's a bait and switch tactic.
What sort of biblical roadblocks did you set up, and how did they respond?
@@TerranDawn12
That was a really good question & I would have loved to have heard their answer.
Sadly, they probably never got the notification of your question. I've found it's quite typical of RUclips to use these 'roadblocks,' the buggers.
For what it's worth, that really was a great question 😉
Amen brother, thanks for sharing this. I hope this video blesses many! God bless you.
I'm so thankful for this video! This video gives so much info that is missed in the other related videos I've watched on the ICC.
This is the, verbatim, most accurate description of Kip’s ICC. I spent five years in the church, and often they would preach that we would be Bereans, checking whatever was preached, and to be humble. But when I questioned what was preached and how leadership treated its members, I was called poisonous, and responsibility was shifted. I pray for them everyday, but I couldn’t associate with them any longer. From what I’ve heard, they’re spiritual abuse has only gotten worse. Well done brother.
Thank you!
Yeah they always told you to be a Berean but if you disagreed with anything you were seen as "prideful" or "struggling".
@@Theoriginalotaku96 True
I had a similar experience with the "do as we say not as we do" leadership model [cough] pharisees [cough]. I am extremely grateful for the teaching, and would remind them that it is what they taught me to do.
If they didn't subside then, and rather turn and try to project onto me how I'm a sinner, and since we confess to one another, they knew my specific sins, which is biblical, they would throw it back in my face, which is Not biblical. I would just remind them that Balaam's donkey spoke the Words of our Abba when the Man of God went off track, and that i believe God holds me in higher regard than a donkey.
They didn't like it, but it's our role for one another to address the sin, not to repent for them. We can learn what to do and what not to do from one another, yet at the end of the day, we're still brothers and sisters. Once we're all unified under obedience to His Word and Love for Him and one another, we can really shine in this dark world.
Please do not give up on each other -- always pray, always hope, always persevere. Some of us had to stay away, as oppose to fall away, in order to preserve our relationship with our Abba.
Seek out a fellowship in the interim. Many ICOC churches have reunified with COC churches and work in cooperation with other locations without a central leader, only Christ as Head. 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Ahaha!!!! Ok….im launching a ministry with Cru on a campus…I’m meeting other ministries in respect and agreed to a study with them. They went through the whole bereans thing also. Which, in fact, I appreciated. I went to their church and there were definitely a lot of spirit filled Christians. But definitely young in their faith and knowledge. I’ll be praying for these students and hopefully getting them in sound doctrine
Thankyou for this video!!!
The ICC was evangelizing on my campus in Amsterdam. I talked with them and they were so nice. Went to a couple of their meetings, doing fun activities and nice Bible studies. Then I went into their Bible studies program. They told me I shouldn't look them up online (which I just did now🙈) because people were talking bad about them. They told me this was because Jesus told us already that true Christians will be persecuted, like He was. Also they told me I wasn't saved based on the fact I wasn't water baptized. This was a major shock for me, I love God with all my heart and have accepted Jesus as my Savior. But they showed me a couple verses throughout the Bible which makes it look like water baptism is necessary for salvation. I told them I wanted to check it myself, and read the Bible books as a whole, to understand the full context. At that point the pastors wife, who was giving me the Bible study, got so mad at me (?!). Mad at me for wanting to read the Bible????? She said she felt personally attacked, that I didn't love her and that I should just trust her. She told me that the Devil is attacking me to not see the (their) truth. She told me that she was so hurt, she was a mother and now she couldn't be with her kids because she made the time for me. I had to apologize to her... it was completely insane. Today I studied the Bible for 8 hours straight, prayed to God to reveal the truth and I can see so clearly that they are lying!! Praise God that I didn't get in too deep! Now I hope people see this video and read people's comments and know the truth about this church (cult)!!! God bless🙏🏼
I think you're talking about the VU campus, I got in touch with some guys from ICoC as well just about 4 weeks ago. After 2 'Bible studies' I said I wanted to study the rest of the Bible myself and then they said things like: 'don't let pride get in your way', 'we care about you and want to save you', 'you never know when God decides it's time to go, an 18 years old friend of mine passed away 4 days after he was baptised'.
They even implicitly said that God would keep letting bad things happen in my life until I repent, so I should decide quickly before something terrible would happen to myself or the people around me..
@@abanoubiskander1499 Yes, VU campus! I'm so sorry that they treated you like that too! It is a very good thing you want to study the Word for yourself, I'm glad you do🤗 They are really placing themselves in the place of God.. you are prideful because you don't want to believe everything they say right away..that's very manipulative BS! I'm happy you see that :) There are a lot of false prophets out there! Shame and guilt aren't from God, conviction is :) Hope you are doing okay and God bless you🙏🏻
@@michellekoornneef5246 It's okay haha, at first I was very happy to hear about their impressive stories how they came (back) to faith since I hadn't really met Dutch youth in a while that actually believed and was happy to do a 'Bible study' with them. I however quickly noticed there was something fishy about it and that they were pressuring me to quickly take a decision and once I said that it requires time, they said that others decided quickly and that needing time implies a lack of faith😐 (a bit similar to the pastor's wife you mentioned haha)
I however believe that some or maybe even most of them are genuine and really believe this is the way and wanted the best for me, so we just need to pray for them and ourselves to get as close as possible to the way God wants us to live.
Luckily I'm perfectly fine and the discussions I had with them encouraged me to study more and the past couple of days I have been studying a lot more, tho i didn't reach 8 hours on a day I think😄
Maybe meeting them was for the better
Hope you are doing fine as well and God bless you too!
@@abanoubiskander1499 Aahh that's great, that it encouraged you to study the Bible more! Haha yeah the 8 hours was just one time bc they really got into my head and I needed to knowww what God said! But I'm grateful like you because since they pushed me so much to believe their way of thinking, I was like, hold up, what does the Word actually say, and ever since I've been reading my Bible consistently whereas before I didn't really read it🙈 Also I'm wanting to get baptized, not because "it saves" like they are saying, but I think it's actually a beautiful thing that Jesus said we should do (took me a whiiiile to get there bc I was getting really reluctant about it since they pushed it so much and said it's what saves you).
Sooo God can turn bad things into good for sure :)
Yes I had the same impression, that most of them actually believed this and that they were doing something good. So we should for sure be praying for them 🙏🏻 that they will see that manipulation, hostility, shame and guilt are not Christian and not from God.
Thankyou for sharing your story about it! Enjoy the summer and God bless 🙌🏼
@@michellekoornneef5246 Haha i get it, i spent a whole lot of hours as well studying the Bible after meeting them.
Good for you that you still decided to get baptized! It's sometimes hard to change your opinion on something you became reluctant about because of the way others portrayed it to you, very happy to hear that through continuing reading yourself and being open you now still want to get baptized!
Even though most denominations have different views on the exact meaning/function of baptism, almost all of them see it as a very important sacrament and i also see it as something important, so I'm happy to hear you're willing to get baptized!😃
Wishing you a great summer as well, and who knows we'll meet each other on campus one day😄
Yep. This video has all the info I've missed on the ICC/ICOC. Thank you.
I left icc in March this year and since then I’ve been considering coming on RUclips to share my experience...I haven’t made up my mind though. I was in the church for four years!
Whether you want to share it online or not is up to you. People who leave the ICC might find it helpful to listen to someone with similar experiences. But I would say that talking to others about your experience can really help you process things personally. It can be very helpful.
I left the ICC in March too. It was incredibly difficult for me to get out of it. Since then I’ve thought about sharing my experience just as you have but I decided that I needed to wait until I was posting something out of love and not spite. I think I’m finally to the point where I genuinely want to help instead of hurt. Posting is completely up to you but I believe it can definitely make a difference!
Would love to hear your story
Emmett! You have done a marvelous work of God! Sadly, there are many wonderful, sincere Christians inside of that cult, and I think some will find grace and salvation. Unfortunately, those closer to the higher echelon of the cult could fall victims to deception and the snare of powers...My prayers for those suffering personal attacks inside of a cult, because most religious systems could be twisted for the “will-to-power” of the few masters on top.
If you are out there seeking to joining a church, you must be cautious, and stay out of serious trouble by paying heed to “the experts on the psychology of the cultic mind.” I subscribed to your channel.
Hi I’m one of them, I’m one of those sincere Christians who was inside of this, because I don’t know what I’ve got myself into. I was made to confess that I wasn’t a disciple even though deep down in my heart I feel I am. Now I’m really nervous what they’re going to tell me today because in one hour I’m going to the study. I heard about that person who claims himself as a leader, a man of God or some thing, I heard of him, this shepherd by the name of Lance Underhill, was preaching the sermon and he talked about, I don’t know how to pronounce his name in dictation cannot spell his name. I dictate my comments since I am blind. But I think, I think my family were right, I think my boyfriend was right I think everybody was right I’m just really naïve, yes I was ready to face persecution. Yes I was ready for anything they asked, but some part of the study really really got me, and that is when I began to realize that they might be a cult and that the people who are persecuting them are actually right. This was all because I wanted some sighted friends, this was all because I wanted someone to take me to church and this was all out of desperation, but now I know desperation gets you nowhere, I have been manipulated into the wrong thing, but I’m thinking of leaving, are they going to guilt trip me and tell me that I’m going to hell if I leave? I hope Jesus would not really do that to me because I still love Jesus
@@trianacotera853 Wow this is really horrible that they have done that to you! It is great that you understand what they are doing so you must find a way out even if this means cutting them off which it likely will. I know that is hard and will hurt but the sadness is worth it to protect you from much deeper and worsening pain if you keep allowing them to deceive you. I hope this helps
@@trianacotera853 Hey. If you`re still dealing with this, make sure you have a support system place like any family, friends, or a psychologist outside the group so you won`t feel alone to help you get out.
On a side note, I had a friend who still goes to this church and at a party at my house I found out that he was getting telephone numbers of guests to 'hang out' but never indicated to them it was about church. I had no issue if people wanted to speak about God, their church etc, heck even invite them, but being deceitful about it was alarming!
Thanks for the video, my cousin has fallen in sadly. I have a great congregation and while I learned a lot of good things from the short amount of studies I've done with my cousin, my danger sensors went off when they started trying to cut me off from my current congregation.
I was approached by them a few months back. They told me the same thing of doing Bible study, but something seemed off and they completely disregarded that I was already part of another church. I noticed they would ask me particular questions about my church, kind of like to prove that my church taught a false doctrine. When I mentioned that I was baptized with my congregation, they didn’t seem happy about it either. That took my by surprise. Recently, my husband started doing to “bible studies” and he quickly also sensed something off.
Hello Emmett! I really appreciate this video. I was in the ICC for alittle over 2 years and helped plant a church. I was exiled 7 months ago for dating outside the church. Since then I've been questioning my Salvation. I'm spiritually and emotionally hurt from it tbh. I'm grateful for this video bc it's definitely helped me with clarity. I barely read my bible bc i just felt so guilty. I miss being in the word and now I finally feel like I can start reading it without a guilty conscience. You did a great job and explain things very well. Thank you!!!! Hope you're doing well bro, pray for meeee plzzz !!! God bless 🙌🏻
So glad to hear! Get in the word and seek the Lord. He promises to strengthen and support you in your time of need. He has abundant grace 😊 God Bless!
Hey Jocelyn! I was briefly involved with the ICC around the time I became a Christian and have the same struggle with questioning my salvation. I can relate to how challenging the experience is. I pray the Lord gives you grace to have full confidence in your salvation and have a rich spiritual life! 🙏🏾
I’m so sorry about how you were treated by them. I was in the ICOC many years ago (almost the exact same organization).
I just want to be clear about something , and this is not to cause you pain but it is something I went through after I was taken out: their false gospel.
ICOC and your group teaches a false gospel that is works based. They teach you that you must be water baptized to be saved and misuse verses like John 3:5 and acts 2:38.
The problem is that they are giving you to believe a false gospel that can harm you spiritually and keep you separated from God.
The true biblical gospel is that Jesus died to pay for your sins and rose again to give you new life. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).His death and resurrection is applied to you freely by grace through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). There is nothing you can do to add to what Jesus did; trusting or adding to it by your works (including baptism) nullifies grace (Romans 11:6). If you still think that your water baptism saves you in whole or in part, I implore you to repent of this and trust solely in Christ alone for your salvation. God bless!
@@TomPlantagenetHello, thanks much for your comment. I've come here to inquire about this actually. I do however have a question, If we are saved by grace and faith alone, and you don't need to be baptized in order to be saved, why does Jesus say In John 3:3-7 “Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’”
John 3:5-7 NIV
@@blazefl4me water and the Spirit is not a reference to water baptism but to God’s cleaning and regeneration in Ezekiel 36:25-27. God promises to cleanse His people. People assume it’s baptism, but that is not in view here. Hope that clears it up.
wow this is very eye opening🙄Mahalo for your boldness🤙🏼🤙🏼
Honestly this “church” is all about control and money. They constantly practice favoritism to those who are more spiritual, while those who are struggling are silenced and ignored. In my time of need, I was left to the wolves because I wasn’t spiritual enough. They don’t care about people, they care about their bottom lines. You’re pressured to baptize, give money and sacrifice. I advise everyone to read Gabe Reed’s letter before joining.
Just.Like.
Scientology! A great BIG MLM Organisation.
The leader Garrett and Hedi were rude, forgetful and constantly telling me I needed to forgive one the fellow child abusers in the group. Amber and Brandon very much admitted to shaking their baby and Hedi and Garret Bradely both just allowed for them to continue to have access to other church members children. Very negligent.
More people need to see this. 👍
You still playing drums?
I grew up in the ICOC in the south. I left at 18, as soon as I was able to do so. I moved out of my parents house, and never once went back. All the manipulation, all the guilt trips and power plays... Not to mention the absolute travesty that was the youth camps. I can't imagine it actually being in my head, I can't imagine lying to myself that I'm happy like they do.
Thank you soo much for this video!
What I find quite amazing is that Kip had the audacity to create a non-accredited college, and then give himself and his wife a doctorate from it.....and everybody seems fine with that....
Absolutely. He also looks like a complete idiot with the ridiculous outfit and GANDALF'S STAFF!!!
Completely agree Dave! I'm not sure if they still say this but in the past they use to tout that it was accredited and that is not the truth.
What?!?!?
At the cost of six thousand dollars I believe
Fake degree’s absolutely worthless anywhere outside the ICC 😂😂😂😂
Thank you do much for this video.
thank you for brotha, when i first left, it was a dark cloud on my walk, often hearing constantly their voices in my head claiming that I walked away, one year later faith stronger than ever, people need to be more aware, their theology is very slippery & misguided
Hey man! I have the same struggle after being involved with that church. It’s been tough. How did you gain more confidence in your walk after leaving?
Great description and quotes! 16:30-17:20 succinctly and well put!
This is actually a good point. Personally I was kind of aware that this was about becoming a christian or at least a member of the church. However, you are right in that being asked to study was not made clear that I was studying to become a member. In hindsight, they should have asked at the beginning if they were interesting to study in order to become a Christian first.
You could’ve said no.
I made so many 'friends' but they disappeared as soon as I told them I wasn't going to dump my fiancé. They knew I was lonely generally so it really hurt me.
This is what I have to say about the city of Angels now, I’m glad now I left before I got baptized, if I was a member and then I left, that would guilt and shame me. I’m glad I left in the meantime I was studying, in the first studies it was a OK and I loved it a lot, I thought you know what I’m not giving this up for anybody, I’ll give anything for God, but I thought that anything wouldn’t mean my relationship. Because that person also believes in God and wants to study as well. But then when, we got to the study about the darkness, I did the persecution study and everything else, but when we got the darkness one, they told me that if I don’t leave the one I’m with, I’ll never make it to the light. They want me to date with in their kingdom or something like this, I’m not gonna lie, I’m very depressed now that I’ve left them yesterday last night. I love the feeling I got as a blind person being driven by a group of sided friends in which I thought were friends. When we went to Bible study when I first heard of it I also thought the same thing that we were all going to study as a group. But no I ended up being the student and they were the ones as a disciples making disciples. I felt treat it like a second classes in while everybody else was treated better, because their members and their baptized with them. They were over nice to me they were overly nice to me and very sweet to me, but then, they left me behind, as if I wasn’t even there and only one of the members saw that I was alone. I just really had a bad bad ending experience with them, and when I started to cry, rather than comforting me they told me that Satan was taking over my heart. And although my heart is broken and crushed, I’m glad I left.
You made the right decision my friend 100%. You will heal and be stronger because of this experience, and you will find people who treat you right because they are good, not in order to get something from you
You'll be Ok. You know now that that was a lie, not the whole thing,
but yeah, only being able to date in the church is one of the saddest lies pushed
to the singles by this Church. *"The Church is not a building made by human hands, as if God needed*
*anything, but the Church is in you, you are the Church!* So you, do you. And do right by him and get married or plan too
instead of living together. Make it right in that way, ask God and pray. Read if your not quite ready. The Lord is with you and wants the best for you.
@Emmett Kellogg
Hi Emmett! Thank you so much for your video! I’ve been approached once in California and quite a few times here in Washington DC with ICC. I have a friend who’s deeply embedded in this cult. I listened to your whole video because I wanted to learn more about this and it was terrifyingly accurate. I’m already part of a biblical and theological church and I’m thankful by God‘s grace that I’ve been able to discern such false teaching. I really appreciate this and I’ll be sharing your video with others to warn them.
I have a friend like I mentioned earlier in this comment who’s been deeply embedded in this “church” and I am definitely going to pray for her and seek wisdom on how to hopefully get her out of it. But that’s ultimately by God’s grace and mercy.
I will add as well when I first went to her church in DC because I was looking for a church ( keep in mind I already had a church I was planning on visiting i.e. I’m going there now). Two of their friends got my number and met with me yesterday virtually and try to convince me that I was basically lost without coming out and saying. Their view baptism was completely incorrect. They were saying that you’re not saved by Christ alone. It’s horrifying the accuracy of the information you’ve been giving. Thank you brother we appreciate it.
Looking for a new church too. Which one do you attend
@@olobangura1805 look into the orthodox Christian church. It was instituted by the apostle Peter, it has a history going back 2000 years, and has a unified doctrine. They’re the one that put the original canon of the Bible together In the first place.
If you’re still looking for a church check out Capitol Hill Baptist church
I almost got inducted into the ICC. It was the grace of God which preserved me and kept me away as soon as I learned baptism was required for salvation.
,🙏✝❤
Bro literally what does the scriptures say.
@@chimeziekanu9210 That entirely depends on what do you mean by "literally".
@@joshuang6896 acts 2:38
@@chimeziekanu9210 Okay. So based on Acts 2:38 alone, does it mean God needs my cooperation in order for Him to put His Spirit in me, and hence for me to be saved?
This has got to be the most well balanced video on the ICC. We need more biblically minded ex icc/icoc’ers to expose these guys. The main reason why most members don’t leave is because they think they’re the only ones who have it right - videos like this expose the cracks from a logical and biblical perspective
very interesting video man! Though I can see your viewpoints and perspectives clear and concisely, I think I can't entirely agree. I usually don't reply to things like this, but I'm going to pray and do some digging and get back to you. I would love to have a conversation offline if possible. God bless !
It's not necessary for anyone to agree with this video entirely or even a little. This guy's putting his experience out there. Your experience is probably different. And that's actually ok. I'm in the ICC still and I think there are so many elements that we have wrong about what Jesus intended for his followers. My ministry is not a "one off"... it's a reflection of our group's culture... and we are about numbers. Numbers produces money to build. We're exclusive and this is proven when because we don't really allow anyone to repent and be baptized in another church group. And when someone leaves, they're a fall away. If that isn't about exclusivity and numbers, I don't know what else is. It affects everything about our culture which is also evidenced in the preaching at midweeks, our devos, our retreats, the Sunday sermon, right down to the Communion message. That's my experience though but I'm still trying to navigate this path with God.
For the record, I very much believe followers of Jesus exist outside of our icc group. And like Jesus, I don't think there's a need to stop them or condemn them or force them to be united with us "or else they're just proud" (Mark 9:38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us." 39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.)
Thank you!
My older cousin never said anything about this church. In fact I recall one time when she raise $3,500 dollars by herself and donated her student family so they could afford the school supplies for their child aka her student. They were also not a part of her church and they legit told her that she went against the word of god. On top of that, she used to be the best dress in our family; now I see her struggle to wear a tank top. This church ruin her kindness and her confidence. She going through depression but I’m happy she is getting help. But not once have she spoken Ill of them but they have. They have reach out to her and notify her that she would be in hell if she doesn’t return. I’m glad she has not and never will be, she got serious depression and ptsd from “amen bro… preach… let God handle it” phrases. She literally freaks over “disciple lingo” I hope this church is exposed! They ruin a soft soul.
It takes a while for many to recover after leaving the ICC. Depression, anxiety, and PTSD are all common. Hopefully by understanding how they operate it can help her heal. Let her know that she is not alone and many people have struggled through the same thing. Weeping may tarry for the night, but joy comes with the morning. I will be praying for your cousin.
@@emmettkellogg7565 Thank you so much! I will def let her know!
Wow. This feels like a slap in the face but it’s also true, these people seem like really loving loving loving genuine people but now that I’m looking into this and reading these comments, I better keep an open I mentally. They told me something that really hurt me in the study, that’s why I’m thinking of leaving, but I’m going again today to see what they want to say. I’m really nervous, but helping me, I mean reading these comments is helping me prepare to be hurt once I tell them that I’m done. This is horrible, this is just horrible, and they seem like great people, but the devil manipulates so they manipulate, so how the Bible base if they’re doing something so satanic by manipulating people
@@trianacotera853 I can’t say that my cousin experience is the same as yours but I can tell you it is scary seeing it from an outside perspective. My cousin was the loudest funniest gentle and so confident. Now she is quiet still gentle but so insecure about herself and what she does. She is moving forward and gaining more and more each day. But I legit fear that she may return. But it’s not looking like it since she has now told them to shut up and stop stalking her.
@@koromalee888 well I will pray for your cousin, no one should have to go through any kind of PTSD or depression because of this, I just left them yesterday, right after commenting, I was supposed to do a Bible study with them and I did, and I knew what they were about to do, they’re so strict and they don’t believe in disciples dating somebody who is not a disciple, not just a non-believer by somebody who is not baptize only in their kingdom. I don’t have anything else to say about them either too much, but when I started crying, you would expect because their disciples come out they would comfort me and hug me or something like that, they didn’t, and one of them even started laughing silently but I still heard it. I felt treated badly, because I wouldn’t give in, therefore I had to leave before I wait for my self to get baptized before they put me on a guilt trip, I still feel depressed because it was the hardest decision to do, since I am blind I desperately want to friends I could see and that would drive me and everything else and I liked it, when they took me for a ride to church and everywhere else. And it was sad that I had to give this up, but at the same time, look I’m willing to give anything and everything for God but my relationship, I feel in my heart glorify God, because my partner also believes strongly in God. But because it’s not of their kingdom, that’s why it wasn’t approved, and so, I either had to stay there and leave my boyfriend because of this, or leave them but not my boyfriend, and I chose the second option. They shouldn’t be dominating or dictating my life like this or anyone else’s life like that
I want to thank you so much for this video, my girlfriend and I are doing long distance right now for school, and I am a Biblical studies student so I started to sus out her church (she wasn’t too far in, she was at the light and darkness study or whatever they call it) and this video was super duper helpful for her, she just left so she is now dealing with the harassment and all of that, so pray for us and wish her luck 😅
Really I can’t stress how much this video helped us so thank you again!
Update: We are getting married in a week and now attend a First Baptist church although we are church shopping so my fiancé still considers herself non denominational until we find a church that fits our needs and ability to give to the community.
I was genuinely amazed by the level of persistence that the ICC in her area had, but due to our life situation we were blessed enough that rather than deal with the problem my fiancé just decided to attend my college so she was able to move away from where her problems started.
While it upset me greatly that they contacted her after she made it clear she didn’t want to be contacted, what I will say (even if it is a silver lining) is that the
Disciples who had worked with her seemed genuinely to care about her salvation and while it was totally inappropriate they were either the best actors in the world or really felt that she was abandoning salvation by leaving the church.
So tldr: while I personally do feel that the ICC is a cult on an institutional level, and I am glad to have my loved one be safe away from their influence, I also think that at least at some level (the disciples that worked with my fiancé and the local pastor) the people were genuine and meant only the best for those that they discipled.
@@johngalt5166 For me when I left, they kept emailing me about their events even though I no longer wanted anything to do with them. I closed down that email and created a different one. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to do with my number. I blocked all their numbers and I`m not sure if they`ve still been contacting me because of that. But it was over a year ago so I wouldn`t know whose number is who. But they probably stopped a long time ago.
Do you have an update video? It would be nice if you did! The sex absuse cases and Kip Mckean's retirement for "spiritual faltering" is very disturbing!!
Awesome vídeo! Thanks
I'm supposed to get baptized tommorow. But now I realize it's a cult. However, I left a jacket at my mentors house. It's my most expensive piece of clothing. What do I do? I need to leave but I also need to get my jacket back lol
They’ll probably give you your jacket back if you ask lol
If they don't give your jacket back you can call the police I guess
Wow Typical response from someone from ICC ("...you probably weren’t ready to be a disciple of Jesus.") talk about using the bible to make you feel guilty.
You most likely are ready but you need to true church to find your way.
So did you get your jacket back?
@@dr.mikepatterson 😂😂😂😂😂. Keep handing out those fake degrees bbbrrwwwwooooaahhhhhh
Hey! Would you be interested to do a joint video about this? I had an experience of them very similar to you and am really hurt for those still in the church. Let me know if you'd like to chat!
I’d be open to something like that.
By Gods supernatural intervention I was firmly grounded in the book of Hebrews when they invited me to their Bible studies. I had a great Nkjv study Bible with an extensive topical index. Even though I was only 4 months into reading the Bible I systematically brought up multiple verses that refuted their salvation by works false doctrines. I was surprised at how bad they took it. I naively thought we where their to study the Bible. I was blamed of having a religious demon. I was told I wasn’t really saved because I admitted to relapsing to the sin of porn a few weeks ago after a long streak of abstinence.
Thank God I found the orthodox Christian church which has apostolic succession tracing back to the apostle Peter, has one unified doctrine, and thousands of years of solid Holy Spirit inspired history.
Just curious, as i would like for churches claiming to be Christian to be unified, does this church teach repentance and immersion for the forgiveness of sins and the receipt of the Holy Spirit, as Peter taught?
@@kehaulani1467he Orthodox Christian in Antioch was directly founded by St Peter and is still in existence in Damascus. I’m not exaggerating when I say there isn’t a single orthodox service where we won’t ask the Lord for his mercy at least a hundred times. A lot more on many days. Our liturgy hasn’t changed since the 2nd century AD. I’ve never known such repentance as when I joined the orthodox Christian church.
I mean no offense but the Orthodox teaching is similar to ICOC regarding baptism. Nearly identical. So then, what is this salvation by "works" you refer to? @@davefigthe3rd
Just seeing your post. I started Bible studies with them . First Bible was great I was fired up, then I notice how they directly and indirectly tried to say the church I am attending is false teaching ( they don’t even know the church ) then the being a disciple is the only way to be saved , I was shocked . I am ending this Bible study immediately.
Hi does anyone know anything about the ICC branch in London UK? I was recently invited to some of their bible studies but the Holy Spirit allowed me to sense and see a number of red flags, then prompt me to investigate. What I've found so far about the ICOC is not good. But I havent found much info on the London branch. If anyone knows anything I'd really appreciate it
Hey David, my main experience has been with the LA churches. I hope someone can give you some feedback that can be helpful.
Stay away from the London International Christian Church. They are a cult. They are no different from the ICOC and teach the same doctrines
I've heard they have a London branch
Their doctrine seems off. I did a couple of Bible studies with them when I was new to the Bible and they told me that my grandmother was a fake Christian and going to hell because she didn't get baptised and they believe that's a requirement for salvation. They also don't study whole books from the Bible, nor their context, which makes it easy for people who are new to the religion to fall into the ICC trap and believe their doctrine. Then, when I told the person who was "discipling" me that I took the studies into my own hands and started reading the Bible for myself and studying it with the aid of the Holy Spirit she tried telling me that I'm doing Christianity wrong and that I'm supposed to have another disciple teach me.
@@emmettkellogg7565 this video is 100% correct and is in no way meant to defame the Church. Myself and my wife were apart of this Church for many, many years. It was helpful, and positive sometimes, how ever some of the tactics used by this Church are far from healthy, or positive. We left after I had years of questions, which are a unspoken rule not to ask. I heard a lesson one time in which they used scripture in telling the membership to be " careful about outside people, and groups that can take you away from God ". It was at that point that I thought I don't want my kids to be raised in this environment among other things.
Hello emmett I’ve just seen this video yesterday and I feel I’ve seen it a little late my younger brother has been going to icc for about a year now and I feel I’ve failed to notice these things I really need help it’s breaking up my family. Being from a single mother home she’s crushed.
Hey Michael, can you shoot me a message on FB messenger?
Yes please
Which of them please ?
My sister is in the City of Angels ICC right now. I wish I had a better way to help.
This is some of what was said to me verbatim when I decided not to show up to get baptized.
“Hey bro i don’t know what we did to you personally but I did believe we were truly friends. So are we not cool no more because I associate with GOD?
I know we are better than this bro. Look at whats happened, you are willing to throw a friendship away because you saw the truth that you have always prayed for?
Im still here for you bro Im just a little hurt.”
I only knew them for two weeks… here’s some more. After a bit of discussion he proceeded to send me this.
“Hey bro I was praying this morning and I thought of you and these questions.
1. Does your relationship with GOD look the same as before or is it growing?
2. Do you honestly believe that where you are is with GOD.
3. Are you still willing to hear your questions answered by the Bible.
4. Is your family Lord of your life or is Jesus Lord.
I love you bro and haven’t forgot about you, don’t stop seeking out answers from GOD and don’t do it alone. Let’s sit down and talk bro.”
I mentioned to him that they made a lot of assumptions about my faith and relationship with God. After that he backed down a bit.
I had told them multiple times that I had already studied all of the scripture they were showing me and they kept trying to convince me that I didn’t know anything and couldn’t search scripture on my own. They’d say “Doesn’t that make you emotional?” And I said “Not really because I’ve already read that and have come to accept it.
No, I didn’t know what I was getting into. Their goal seems to be to get you in person to pressure you 2-on-1 or 3-on-1.
To give a more rounded perspective of what I experienced, they were actually a normal kind of friendly people and could have regular conversations with them I went to a good amount of their gathering. However they kept trying to rush me into getting baptized (again)
In their Bible studies they always took notes for me and sent me their material. Just haven’t gotten the chance to look it over it all again. However I know their doctrine fairly well because of it.
They emphasize being baptized in water as the main means to salvation alongside Jesus. Almost so much so, it seemed the water during baptism was more important than faith in Christ.
I told them they could email me answers to my questions, but they didn’t want to do that.
If you really want to know there whole belief I recommend purchasing Kip McKean’s book “First Principles and follow up studies” on Amazon
They also kept telling me I couldn’t get the book until I was baptized and after I was baptized they’d give me a new Bible than the NKJV study Bible I had, which was also weird.
I also had a NKJV study Bible when I met the folks from this movement. God supernaturally showed me the truth about their false doctrines.
High Control Groups are the worst. They are like onions with all the layers of good faith and lovely people helping their fellow brothers and sisters (if they're in good standing that is) woven together between even more layers of disgusting, abuse, money grabbing and getting as many new members through the door, "ya know, ya gotta get those numbers up$$$" that is a Multi Level Marketing scheme. Just like Scientology does, & the IRS really should take away the tax exemptions from these orgs/cults. Imho They certainly don't deserve it.
I see what you are saying. However, most people believe that just because they believe in God, Christ, went to their parents church, and raised in a church think that they are Christian and they are not. Most churches are not helping people arrive at an biblical understanding about who they really are.
I hope the way their church practices and structure is to build the church like the word of God says. Gathering people to make them disciples
The phrase 'word of God' doesn't even mean the scriptures in Judaism. This is one of the foundational misunderstandings in the icoc that make the Bible out to be some kind of stand alone instructional manual that it isn't, and instead take snippets of verse filtered through their own assumptions. Sorry to break it to you, but the Second Great Awakening of the 19th century just introduced more complications into the religious landscape and Kip took that as his religion, but with an Amway spin. It can have some positive aspects if someone is using that Appalachian American frontier spirituality to repress their most harmful pathologies, but usually at best, they merely dealing with the veneer of their problems with adding on new neurotic obsessions.
Agreed Sonja but we don’t need to be either lukewarm or legalistic there is a healthy middle
And there it is, a Christian telling other Christians they aren't as Christian as they should be.
Well done you. 🫤
Amazing video!
100 % YES !!! Definatley a CULT !
Please help me. My daughter is in a mental facility because of IOCC. No access.
Please message me on Facebook.
facebook.com/emmett.kellogg
I’ll try to help in any way I can.
I am currently in the ICC and have had to start going to a psychiatrist and therapist because my experience has traumatized me… I got diagnosed with multiple things but my therapist thinks I have C-PTSD.
They musta thought you were sshhhhaaaarrpppppppp….they just didn’t realize your sword would cut them 😂😂😂
ha, yeah, which should be expected with a Double-Edged sword.
The main problem is that they have a false gospel that teaches water baptism is required for salvation. The thief on the cross is the best example of why this is false.
It’s funny because they like to use 1 Peter 3:21 but that tells you that water baptism is a symbol
Jesus had the power to do anything 🙏
It does not tell you that water baptism is a symbol but a type. And those are two very different things. In fact most translations wrestle with how to get this word right because symbol is far too empty and "symbolic". So they use words like corresponds to or a figure of. I would urge you to reconsider your view on this passage. Baptism is a salvation event given by God. And it is God's work. Not ours. @@lotusjumpingspider8761
Can I ask: what's something you hold very dear? What's a common symbol for that thing?@@lotusjumpingspider8761
You are absolutely correct!
I nearly got to the kingdom study and then I backed out - they are not just bible studies! They test the waters to see if you're willing to leave everything behind for them (In the name of Jesus) by cherry picking verses.
Mr. Finestead, if you pay heed to Emmett’s excellent video on the psychology of the cult, you may aver the fact that some of us are simply too trusting and sheepish. First rule when you go out into society is to be aware of the reality of a world ever-spinning with trouble, scandals and serious challenges to keeping “the theatrics of society under the safe haven of the authority.”
The truth is that the psychology of the cult-mentality is as complicated as “the mentality of the proselyte or the neophyte, “ because at times, some of us are more vulnerable than others to falling trap into these all-too-human vicious schemes of powers and deceptions.
That they can put on the facade of piety, charity and “ministers of light” should not surprise us.
Now, from an existential perspective, the complex issues of life, i.e., meaning and purpose, religious cults could attract some of the most wonderfully sincere, “loving people with a strong itching for cultism,” metaphysics, idealisms, et al., and this may explain why some folks are “totally at home in a cult” even when others may find it pernicious or harmful.
Just to clarify are you talking about London ICC Church? Based in West London?
London International Christian Church would be part of the same movement/network of Churches, yes.
@@emmettkellogg7565 oh wow, thank you. I just made a friend from the London ICC Church and they have invited me to visit and I was planning to visit that's why I asked for clarification.
@@CoCoDeLaCruZ yes they have churches all over. Some really nice people, but overall I wouldn’t say it’s a healthy church.
@@CoCoDeLaCruZ ask if you can be a part of church without tithing and with no discipling partner. Or if you can go to any church you want after being baptized
Well put
I don't think they were a cult perse, but they sure came close too it. For instance
affluent Cities experienced more "cult like" behavior than say urban Cities. Rich or
well off people for some reason than poorer communities. You had white people using
the word "cult" more so than it's Black members. So I think it depends on where you were, your
socio economic level, your age *(easier to take advantage of College Kids)* vs married couples or older adults most times.
But Kip was a maniac in my opinion. From the first time I met him and saw people fawning all around him treating him like he
was Jesus Christ is when I thought to myself, "this is weird, why are they reacting to this guy like they are?" I'd always found that strange.
Special contribution just kept asking for more and more money. We had our own network *KNN* which became propaganda to me, not at first, but after a while.
we even had our own lingo. For ex; a *VWA* was a *"visitor with an attitude"* lol It was programming. Those who didn't read the bible for themselves and study
God's word on their own were spoon fed the *"Shining like Stars Series"* in the order it was given with no questions asked. Those who did, if they weren't satisfied
with the explanation, they were deemed divisive. But the biggest danger sign on the Church for me was *"We were the the true Church, the only ones saved"* and that right there is cult talk!
So after 13 years my husband and I being bible talk leaders *(and that was a whole other story,*) decided we had learned all we could *(and I honestly learned a lot btw)* but felt I couldn't
leave like, where would I go. I would cry and cry and pray and cry some more. Then the *Henry Kriete letter* came out and that was it! I was *out,* knowing my relationship with God was still in tact!
What is the Henry Kriete Letter?
Sounds like a cult to me. It took here condemnation from a world sector leader to even leave. Not trying to come at you but it speaks to the amount of mind control you were in. Glad you’re out now though
I was invited to dinner that involved a Bible study.
It was hell. It was miserable. The leaders are abusive and cover for other child abusers it is disgusting.
And why would anyone ask you to attend their regular services, do quiet times, bible studies from any church wants you to become? To be with them.
Forgive me for not understanding your question. Could you rephrase it?
I think the original commenter is saying they control who you spend your time with. They take up all your time with all the events they host and make you attend so you don’t become “weak” in the Faith.
As a current member, I could understand how the behavior is cult-like. I was very uncomfortable with it for the first 3 ish months, but I eventually just had the mindset to set a better example for others so they dont struggle with their faith.
I would say my main reason for staying is because they take their teachings directly from the Bible. But I am very open to see how this sect preaches false doctrine..
I think it would be pretty cool to see how the church preaches false doctrine just to have the choice to think freely and critically. Because from my experience, what they preach does come directly from the Bible
facebook.com/emmett.kellogg?mibextid=LQQJ4d
Shoot me a message we can talk about some doctrinal issues.
They preach baptismal regeneration with is erroneous doctrine
@@lotusjumpingspider8761 how so?
@@jacoblabaniegos69 because they believe water baptism is salvific. It’s similar to Catholics believing transubstantiation (communion being the actual body). Or the Pharisees who believed circumcision is salvific. All those things are symbolic to what the creator does in us. 1 Peter 3:21 “…water now symbolizes….”. Paul denounces this heavily because they are works based. Romans 4:4-5. Of course you have to harmonize this with James 2 but ICC and ICOC for that matter focus on one end instead of both and do a poor job harmonizing different scriptural text
@@lotusjumpingspider8761 In context, 1 Peter 3:20-21 talks about the flood with Noah, using this event as an example of how Noah and his family was saved in water. 1 Peter 3:21 "and this water symbolizes baptism that now also saves you- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience towards God"
Roman's 4:4-5 does talk about works without faith (if you are working without having faith, what you do will feel like an obligation) since the chapter is talking about Abraham who is considered the father of faith. And in context, Paul is talking about circumcision, which those practicing Judaism were boasting about in front of the Gentiles.
Now I agree that baptism alone does not save you. If I grabbed a random person in the street and threw them in a lake, I did nothing but get them wet. But Colosians 2:12 does talk about how we are saved through faith at baptism (and please feel free to read in context to verify so I am not spreading misinformation)
I used to believe that baptism was a sign to show an inward garce, but Roman's 6:2-4 does talk about it being an active participation in the death and resurrection in Christ.
I kinda agree that the Church gets too excited in talking about working for God and could forget to tell newcomers the why. Which asking questions or being honest could help.
Yes
I’m new to the ICC on campus, however I haven’t experienced anything like this. All of the leaders and people in the group are extremely open to me, and they don’t claim to be special in any way shape or form. In fact they have repeated that they are not perfect citing experiences from their past, and showing how they have changed. I’m very interested to learn more about this, and talk about this.
Hey Nick, I did my best to accurately represent what they do and believe. What specifically did you disagree with or want clarification on?
Believe every word of this video! My husband and I left the church after a couple years exactly because of their cultish behavior and erroneous theology.
Flee as if your spiritual life depends on it … because it does.
✝️🙏🏼📖
If this video is so unbiased then why try to feed this person more information to sway them a certain way?
@@jrpbgp This video was well thought out and seems pretty unbiased in that it does not attack members nor does it tell people they should not participate in the ICC. The video merely points out some cultic or concerning practices and teachings of the ICC, which people have been stressing for decades. Despite these concerns being repeatedly brought up the ICC fails to properly address or eliminate its harmful teachings and practices. If being given more information about this organization “sways” people, then maybe they should be swayed. People have a right to make a fully informed decision when it comes to getting involved with this group.
This church is nothing like the first church, fuled by greed.
Proof?? 20 churches being planted this year.
Nothing has changed. They’re all still as manipulative as before
My only consideration before calling a church occult is when there belief touches the doctrines on salvation. There belief about water baptism required in salavation is occult.
There are different reasons why a group would be categorized as a cult. The first is the way that they function and behave. The second one, which is prevalent when discussing certain Christian/pseudo-christian groups is whether or not they preach the true gospel.
@@emmettkellogg7565 every church has the right to be different how it operates and functions which depends on ther culture, geographical location and etc. Though each church may be different but all should be united when it comes to the main doctrine established by the church fathers to identify the true church from the occults. Meaning that the churches may be different when it come to the minor doctrines that affect not the salvation.
Yes Yes Yes, 100% they are
It probably is but at the same time, society is one big cult made up of little cults.
That's why it's called Culture:)
I have a scripture I wanted to share with you.
It describes the church you're talking about in a nutshell.
Some people call this scripture the jewel in the gospels & I agree !
Mark 8:34-38
34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it.
36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?
37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?
38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.
Verse 35 is the key verse & describes the commitment a person makes to be a disciple of Jesus.
We all have/had worldly dreams about what we were doing with our lives. We all have an agenda, desires, ambitions, goals, plans.
But Jesus says we are to give up our earthly life & live for him. He has to be our Lord!
He says we are to lose our earthly life for him. He also says we do it for the gospel; meaning proclaim the gospel.
Being a fisher of men, seeking & saving the lost, making disciples.
We help others out of the world & repent of their sin.
We still have dreams & plans, but the will of God becomes first place.
This is the commitment we make to God.
Verses 36, 37 show it's a matter of salvation!
This whole passage shows characteristics of being a disciple of Jesus. For example; denying self, carrying your cross & following Jesus.
Being his disciple is the most Noble life anyone could ever live!
You have become a minister of reconciliation & an ambassador of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:1- 6:18
It's the greatest adventure & when you die; you get to be with God for eternity! It's the greatest joy, peace & meaning anyone could ever experience ! ! !
Salvation is not about to be a disciple, You need first to be saved in order to become in a Disciple of Jesus.
Losers and abusers , they have a special place in hell for the leaders and such for exploiting and abusing and disrespecting God, Jesus and people who were in a vulnerable state or very young and away from home at college. I know some people in the ICC and its everything in there life they are not living just existing like drones its sad . I have much more to say about this but not today . Be safe everyone and think for yourself and pray anywhere and anytime he will listen .
Pls make more videos about this we need good theology to debunk this stuff it’s spreading wuick
I am currently in seminary so my time is limited. I am planning to make more as soon as I can. Can you message me on FB? I’d love to get your input on what topics you’d find helpful.
@@emmettkellogg7565I would love for you to go deeper on thier 5 core convictions and how convoluted it is, especially central leadership and speak when the bible is silent.😊
I think they just want to operate according to the first century church in the Bible, which seems too fanatical to people in the 21st century. I don't think they should be called a cult because they won't hurt anyone who doesn't believe in them. But they do have almost harsh requirements for members of the church, just like Jesus’ requirements for his disciples in the Gospels. I'm neutral about it, I feel like I tried to be active with them but I couldn't, I respect the way they behave.
There isn't anything wrong with holding the standards of the original Church who walked with Jesus, the PROBLEM is when they ignore the rest of the New Testament that completely negates all of it as a necessity to being justified through a transition with Gospel given to the Gentiles (Romans 1)
This is called rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15)
by them holding to the unecessary yoke laid on the original Churches necks, they've fallen from the grace of God and have now added works to Salvation which goes against Paul's gospel (Ephesians 2:8) No different than a 7th day Adventist or Sabbatarian preaching a false Gospel.
They claim no autonomy between other denominations and belive they are the only ones who teach the truth, and anything else outside what they teach is "false doctrine" and will antagonize you if you'd choose to believe anything else. This is already a Cult by the very nature on how they control information and your thoughts.
@@GospelSaves Thanks for sharing these verses, I noticed these for the first time. Also when I think about it, the thing I feel most uncomfortable with is their exclusivity towards other churches. 1) When I said that I used to watch other churches’ worship live broadcasts on RUclips, they refused to comment. 2) When I told them I wanted to go to another church, they told me there was no way God could save me from other churches. Of course, since I haven’t been very involved with them yet, I haven’t experienced the mental trauma of leaving ICC that others have mentioned. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
I don’t see any difference between them and the ICOC. It sounds like the same organization.
Yea it’s an offshoot started by the original founder of the ICOC.
@@emmettkellogg7565 so I’ve heard. I was part of ICOC in the mid 90s. Sounds like he just rebooted it with the exact same practices and doctrine.
thanks to kip my church has a bad rep cause of his behavior and those close to him for the sins he was in. kip actually mispend church money for his personal trips.
Is it really true? I'm a current member
The Bible explicitly teaches that we become lost because of our sins. Your argument of not confronting people is irrelevant.
John 8:31-34
2 Corinthians 5:16-19
What are you talking about? Like what specifically in the video?
As an ICC member, I’ll just ask you to read Acts 5:17-42. Then, I want you to carefully consider whether or not this video was a wise one to make. That’s all I’ll say, peace be with you.
It was with much fear and trembling before God and through much prayer that I made this video. The truth should not fear examination.
@@emmettkellogg7565 what you said in this video definitely rings true brother. Keep preaching the good news against cults like this.
Stand up for the truth and don't worry about the outcome. What isn't wise about exposing real experiences that's so far from what Jesus preaches and stand for? You're clearly brainwashed. Brushing things under the rug won't get you to the truth...
@@emmettkellogg7565 I made my decision to leave one of their NE churches this week. I can't listen to man tell me what God wants for me. Thats between God and me.
Everyone acts like this church is doing evil. They teach people to follow the Bible😭. They teach people to match their life with their doctrine and being working servants of God. Everyone talking about their experiences just sounds like emotions and that you’re putting your life first instead of God first. You guys are speaking upon emotions instead of scriptures . Matthew 28:19-20 commands us to go and make disciples of all nations and baptize them to follow God’s command … everyone is just another person looking for the easiest Blackdoor of being a Christian and being saved. Read the Bible.
No no, they teach people to follow them (ICOC/ICC), not the bible. This church was created in the 1970s; there is no way this church has any right to control who you can date & spend time with, nor where you can go to church, based on the Bible, mmk.And I left in 2021, this is not an old practice that was abandoned in 2003, since people love to argue that. The first church existed waaaaay before the 1970s creation of these organizations. To believe that all other churches have it wrong, and the excuse that "I'm sure other true churches exist but I haven't found one yet" being used as a justification for why you are only allowed to date people in your group and go to school, and work, and live in places where there is an icoc/icc, otherwise it is unwise and wrong of you to do so??? This is not biblical as you claim, this is high control and arrogance. God and Jesus never practiced high control, so please maybe study that out since you want to tell us we don't know the bible and what it teaches.
I've never seen anyone control who someone CAN or CANNOT date. They certainly aren't required to approve of anyone's dating choices. And, neither is God. Sure, dating may be a matter of conscience but that doesn't mean one is free to do whatever they please. @@RebekahLoves
Thank you for this video
I was restored in October ,2020
Because of COVID my confession was filmed
I was very open and honest
It was put on RUclips public and it was on the ICOC Facebook page public
It got taken down a few days later, but the damage was done
I remained paranoid about it as what I said ...I can't believe I was so trusting
No one ever apologized over it
I left at Christmas so I could be with my old church
I don't do happy holidays, I do Christ mas
I'm still with God
Any true church would of apologized
Just be careful what you say. Its a really clear video you've done. God bless everyone
Ma’am with all reasoning you should have just got open on how you feel.
@@chimeziekanu9210 umm.. they just said they were open and honest. Why are you putting words into their mouth that they didn't say? Lol
@@chimeziekanu9210 someone needed to call you out on the obvious gaslighting. It's like you people consider it a virtue
Your right on that one. I went and visited many times but the Lord just was not urging me back there.
The congregation runs the Church now. The pendulum has swung way over to the other side. The messages
are so watered down it's sad. Their even taking cues from the world now with words like "Karen" and concerned about
how people are identifying gender wise. They're nothing like they used to be but a former shell of themselves. It's really pathetic.
God taught me that I've out grown it. I have learned all I could there and now it's time to get out in the word and teach others what your story is.
I would never bad mouth them even though they did the things they did because at the time they were once a good thing. But they look tired, and sad,
and the same singles still waiting for a husband. They need to leave and get out in the real world but they are psychologically trapped in their minds. Some
are just afraid they've been there so long. I pray for them. God loves them too, but they have to really want to know God and not be held captive mentally by the Church.