Your work is always first rate, Josh. I don't think Pat Garrett was the devil. He was certainly a smart and cunning man, and his pursuit of the Kid displays a very effective use of the people he knew, his and their knowledge of Billy's habits, and his willingness to shoot first and ask questions later. Maybe the death of Carlyle had an impact, but that was one more killing put on the Kid that was probably not his doing. (I think that posse panicked and shot their own, or they would not have run away without a fight.) In any case, maybe Garrett yelled out "Halt" that night in Fort Sumner, or maybe he just shot the guy in the lead on the assumption it was Billy. Bad luck for Tom Folliard either way. The fact Pat ordered his men to shoot the Kid on sight, just a couple of days later at Stinking Spring tells me he was pretty cold hearted and makes me doubt that he gave Folliard any warning. Just my opinion. On the other hand, he willingly protected the Kid and the others from Lynching in Las Vegas, and that meets with other stories that he was willing to fight to see the process done legally. But in the end, I find Garrett to be one who was seeking both money and status, and didn't care who he took out to achieve that. For all his skill set and experience in private life, he was a nobody when chosen to run for Sheriff in 1880. The Kid's testimony to Frank Angel, his testimony in the Dudley inquiry and against the murderers of Huston Chapman display a young man who knew where the bodies were buried among the Santa Fe Ring powerbrokers. I think that record of his intelligence and the threat that represented was at least an equal measure to the desire to snuff him out as any cattle and horse thievery. The Kid understood, per his statements to reporters, that every killing in the County was put on him, and that the public was being made to see him as an animal. Pat Garrett either took the job for the money, the prestige or as a willing player for the Territory Masters. I can't see him any other way. Can't shed a tear over his eventual ending, either. He finally got the receiving end of what he had dished out to the Kid. He trusted the wrong people and was caught unprepared.
Halfway through episode 2 and I definitely have a different view of Pat. Your show is hands down the undisputed world heavyweight champion of western history and the one and only when it comes to deep dives into clarity. Love and appreciate your work.
Great episode brother. So a little interesting detail about something you mentioned. Pat's daughter Ida was born two months before Billy's escape. At this time, the Garrett's were residing at the Whortley Hotel. In May of 1881, Garrett purchased the hotel from former sheriff John Copeland for $275. The fact that Garrett had a newborn daughter was not previously known until 2019. It was discovered by author David G. Thomas. And yes, Garrett did receive the first $500. He did so in February of 1881.
Loved it. So i dont know if i have ever told you. But that Winchester 1873 i have (the one in my post you shared) has a small tie to one of the Regulators that ran with billy. The Regulator Henry Newton brown. Him and 3 other men robbed the bank in Medicine Lodge Kansas. We believe This Winchester belonged to and was with one of the 12 men that chased after the bank robbers. A man name Ned Priest. We even found His initials on the gun. Myself and Garrett from 11 bang bang are gonna make a video eventually. showing all the details and the Evidence. And there's quite a bit of Extremely good evidence.
Great content very enjoyable as always, by the way what do you all think of Billy the kid series on tv, even though its not accurately correct i thought it was great.
Would you be interested in doing an episode on Bill Pidgeon? From what I've read he was part of the Cherokee Bill Gang. My friend stubled onto his gravesite hiking in Utah a few days ago!
Your right about Garretts slyness...it seems though that perhaps this may be because of the fedural juristinction of Garretts teritory.why was that? Can it be connected to the Sante fe ring? Friggin fabulous show !👍
Another great episode Josh. Have you ever listened to RUclips channel All Things Billy The Kid? Also is there any chance on Tom Pickett or Billy Wilson having their own episodes?
One of my favorite shoot um ups, loved this movie. A little bit more to it, Billy wasn't a Mason, his opponents were. John W. Poe, Garret, Gov.Wallace, the Santa Fe ring, all of them. The cards were stacked from the get go.
Great video Josh. I Just saw a video from Daniel Edwards. He mentioned you guys had an interesting conversation. I would love for you guys to do something together.
@@WildWestExtravaganza I'll track it down and let you know. Honestly I take all that with a grain of salt. Like Earp, he became so famous because there was no one left to tell the truth😂 Great Show as Always Brother I always visit your sponsors😂 🤜🤛
Another great episode, by the way I am short but have a big wee wee, does that make me a little big man OR a big A hole? Your conclusion on this would be greatly appreciated.
I read Bob Ollinger, on another custody transport (not Billy) with Pat was eager to kill the prisoner and was constantly goading and drawing on him. Pat grew tired of it ordered Bob to stop it or otherwise he could, "Try me.'
Had he claimed they had this conversation prior to the death of Tom O'Folliard, I might be inclined to believe it. But the fact it is claimed to have happened after Garrett has killed O'Folliard znd Charlie Bowdre, as well as Billy's escape from Lincoln and killing Bell and Ollinger, I can't see them having a friendly conversation.
You know I also read another account that Jesus Silva told the kid he should go to Mexico and the kid said not till after killing Garrett , mason and another fellow I forget who so he said Im staying , but almost days before they say they killed him he told shotgun John Collins after Collins asked him why he hasn't left for mexico don't you know your gonna get killed and billy said yah , pats gonna kill me but I wanna kill mason before I go , so why the change in his story did him and Garrett have a plan for him to get away , it makes me wonder , especially when I found billy in Los Cruces in 1898 , visiting the Garrett family ?
I think he was cuz he was out trying to buy the land when he got bushwhacked when he got shot in the back while he had his pecker in his hand taking a piss so Pat Garrett wasn't one of the richest man around so where the hell did he get the money for the land I used to admire Pat Garrett until I found out the way. He took care of Billy the kid didn't even have the gall enough to go face-to-face with him had the bushwhacking in the dark cuz he knew Billy wood gun his ass down in a heartbeat he was faster than Pat and personally I think he was smarter than him too
You should def listen to the rest of the series as I'll be talking about a lot of that. But Pat wasn't buying land when he was killed. The opposite, in fact. He was definitely broke and trying to sell some land.
I just look at it this way Pat Garrett got what he deserved in the end he got bushwhacked to he got shot in the back so he died the way he killed Billy the kid by bushwhacking
Just out of curiosity, has your opinion of Pat Garrett changed any while listening to this series? Have you learned anything new?
No, I never liked the way he turned on Billy
@@mikearnold7982 That's my opinion, too. I'm grudging about it but I can't help come to the conclusion that Pat was kind of a sad sack.
Na pat was just chasing glory Billy was being Billy pat tried to ride his fame and failed.
Billy was a thief and a murderer. Nothing to admire here. You wouldn't want him as your neighbor.
Your work is always first rate, Josh. I don't think Pat Garrett was the devil. He was certainly a smart and cunning man, and his pursuit of the Kid displays a very effective use of the people he knew, his and their knowledge of Billy's habits, and his willingness to shoot first and ask questions later. Maybe the death of Carlyle had an impact, but that was one more killing put on the Kid that was probably not his doing. (I think that posse panicked and shot their own, or they would not have run away without a fight.) In any case, maybe Garrett yelled out "Halt" that night in Fort Sumner, or maybe he just shot the guy in the lead on the assumption it was Billy. Bad luck for Tom Folliard either way. The fact Pat ordered his men to shoot the Kid on sight, just a couple of days later at Stinking Spring tells me he was pretty cold hearted and makes me doubt that he gave Folliard any warning. Just my opinion.
On the other hand, he willingly protected the Kid and the others from Lynching in Las Vegas, and that meets with other stories that he was willing to fight to see the process done legally. But in the end, I find Garrett to be one who was seeking both money and status, and didn't care who he took out to achieve that. For all his skill set and experience in private life, he was a nobody when chosen to run for Sheriff in 1880. The Kid's testimony to Frank Angel, his testimony in the Dudley inquiry and against the murderers of Huston Chapman display a young man who knew where the bodies were buried among the Santa Fe Ring powerbrokers. I think that record of his intelligence and the threat that represented was at least an equal measure to the desire to snuff him out as any cattle and horse thievery. The Kid understood, per his statements to reporters, that every killing in the County was put on him, and that the public was being made to see him as an animal. Pat Garrett either took the job for the money, the prestige or as a willing player for the Territory Masters. I can't see him any other way. Can't shed a tear over his eventual ending, either. He finally got the receiving end of what he had dished out to the Kid. He trusted the wrong people and was caught unprepared.
This is, yet again, a great series. I’ll be waiting for the next episode. Thanks Josh.
Thanks
Halfway through episode 2 and I definitely have a different view of Pat. Your show is hands down the undisputed world heavyweight champion of western history and the one and only when it comes to deep dives into clarity. Love and appreciate your work.
Thank you
The very best and hands down my favorite history channel! Damn good show!
Thanks!
Thank you Josh!! another great episode, I will certainly look foreword to the next
Awesome, thank you!
Josh ,another no nonsense show on Pat Garrett and the Kid ! I will be waiting for the next show. Good Job.
Gracias Gary
Awesome work thank you for such accurate storytelling for us!!
My pleasure!
LETS GOOO! Thanks for the upload. Gonna be a good day!
You already know!
Good morning Josh, glad to wake up to your newest story. Have a great day.
Good morning, Sandi
Great episode brother. So a little interesting detail about something you mentioned. Pat's daughter Ida was born two months before Billy's escape. At this time, the Garrett's were residing at the Whortley Hotel. In May of 1881, Garrett purchased the hotel from former sheriff John Copeland for $275. The fact that Garrett had a newborn daughter was not previously known until 2019. It was discovered by author David G. Thomas. And yes, Garrett did receive the first $500. He did so in February of 1881.
Thanks for the info! I didn't know that. From what I saw, Ida passed away fairly young. Any idea what the cause of death was?
@@WildWestExtravaganza Yes sir. She died at the age of 15 from ulcerated tonsillitis.
Loved it. So i dont know if i have ever told you. But that Winchester 1873 i have (the one in my post you shared) has a small tie to one of the Regulators that ran with billy. The Regulator Henry Newton brown. Him and 3 other men robbed the bank in Medicine Lodge Kansas. We believe This Winchester belonged to and was with one of the 12 men that chased after the bank robbers. A man name Ned Priest. We even found His initials on the gun. Myself and Garrett from 11 bang bang are gonna make a video eventually. showing all the details and the Evidence. And there's quite a bit of Extremely good evidence.
That's awesome! By the way, can you email me when you get a chance? I got something to ask you.
COOL!!!!
Keep up the great work. Thank You Josh.
Thank you!
Can't wait to listen to this after work today!
Im listening to it right now after work 😂😂
@@lawabernathy9256 you bastard! Just kidding but you lucky dog.
@@ericcrawford3453 lmao. I am a bit of a bastard lmao.
Thanks for sharing !
My pleasure, Doc
Really enjoyed this Josh. I've learned even if I know most of the history it's good to hear it from you! 🤘🤠👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Amazing work brother thank you.
Much appreciated
Great one
Great content very enjoyable as always, by the way what do you all think of Billy the kid series on tv, even though its not accurately correct i thought it was great.
I haven't seen it yet, unfortunately
Loved it as always josh but this one was a little short like that certain small condition you mentioned but it's always good when is pat and billy
Knock knock knocking on Heavans Door. Keep the change Bob.
Would you be interested in doing an episode on Bill Pidgeon? From what I've read he was part of the Cherokee Bill Gang. My friend stubled onto his gravesite hiking in Utah a few days ago!
Maybe
Your right about Garretts slyness...it seems though that perhaps this may be because of the fedural juristinction of Garretts teritory.why was that? Can it be connected to the Sante fe ring? Friggin fabulous show !👍
He had jurisdiction after beimg deputized as a deputy US marshal
Good job again sir. I do like your style.
Thank you kindly
Another entertaining history lesson
Gracias
Another great episode Josh. Have you ever listened to RUclips channel All Things Billy The Kid? Also is there any chance on Tom Pickett or Billy Wilson having their own episodes?
I have seen that channel. I did talk a bit about Wilson and Pickett on the Chavez y Chavez episode. Not sure if you heard it yet.
Dang Josh I'm busy on Wednesdays 😊
Gotta listen later.👌
Listen as your leisure, sir
Amegio...Ollinger was also in the so called posse that killed Tunstal.....fabulous show
One of my favorite shoot um ups, loved this movie. A little bit more to it, Billy wasn't a Mason, his opponents were. John W. Poe, Garret, Gov.Wallace, the Santa Fe ring, all of them. The cards were stacked from the get go.
The west wing of the Lincoln Courthouse Museum (second floor) is still displayed as a Masonic Hall, as it was established by L.G. Murphy.
" well that ties it, I'm going back "
Kris Kristopherson as the kid.
Plus that movie has an amazing soundtrack! Thanks to Bob Dylan.
That is a killer soundtrack you right.
@@ericcrawford3453always in the car cd stack
Man really love your stuff Spotify listener
Thanks Garrett!!!
😂Josh... I caught the slip -in 😂
Hell yeah, what’s up Josh
What's up?
Great video Josh. I
Just saw a video from Daniel Edwards. He mentioned you guys had an interesting conversation. I would love for you guys to do something together.
Cool, I'll see if I can find it. We emailed in the past.
Oooooooh yeaaaaah, cheers pard!
Cheers
It would be alot easy if you put #s on a series of 5
Another amazing wednesday lol.
So glad I found your channel. Binging like a mofo! Keep 'em coming
Welcome aboard!
Josh have you read the book "Billy the Kid as I knew him"? Do you recommend it if so?
I've only read excerpts. Stuff like that can be very interesting but it's always hard to know where the truth begins and ends
@@WildWestExtravaganza I'll track it down and let you know. Honestly I take all that with a grain of salt. Like Earp, he became so famous because there was no one left to tell the truth😂 Great Show as Always Brother I always visit your sponsors😂 🤜🤛
Just add some picture changes and you've got me
Unfortunately that's not going to happen any time soon
We really need a Pete Maxwell episode or 2...kina a hinchpen to a lot of the old west.
Not a bad idea
Another great episode, by the way I am short but have a big wee wee, does that make me a little big man OR a big A hole? Your conclusion on this would be greatly appreciated.
I read an account that does mirror that Garrett and the kid did talk about him leaving with the kid laughing it off .
I read Bob Ollinger, on another custody transport (not Billy) with Pat was eager to kill the prisoner and was constantly goading and drawing on him. Pat grew tired of it ordered Bob to stop it or otherwise he could, "Try me.'
DAMN YER EYES. Now I gotta watch Young Guns 1 and 2 again.🤪
👍🍻
Nothing wrong with that!
Had he claimed they had this conversation prior to the death of Tom O'Folliard, I might be inclined to believe it. But the fact it is claimed to have happened after Garrett has killed O'Folliard znd Charlie Bowdre, as well as Billy's escape from Lincoln and killing Bell and Ollinger, I can't see them having a friendly conversation.
Josh. That is not the real Billy the Kid in that thumbnail picture. Lol
Ha
I feel pat Garrett and Billy the kid were friends.
With a friend like that who needs enemies ?
You know I also read another account that Jesus Silva told the kid he should go to Mexico and the kid said not till after killing Garrett , mason and another fellow I forget who so he said Im staying , but almost days before they say they killed him he told shotgun John Collins after Collins asked him why he hasn't left for mexico don't you know your gonna get killed and billy said yah , pats gonna kill me but I wanna kill mason before I go , so why the change in his story did him and Garrett have a plan for him to get away , it makes me wonder , especially when I found billy in Los Cruces in 1898 , visiting the Garrett family ?
I think he was cuz he was out trying to buy the land when he got bushwhacked when he got shot in the back while he had his pecker in his hand taking a piss so Pat Garrett wasn't one of the richest man around so where the hell did he get the money for the land I used to admire Pat Garrett until I found out the way. He took care of Billy the kid didn't even have the gall enough to go face-to-face with him had the bushwhacking in the dark cuz he knew Billy wood gun his ass down in a heartbeat he was faster than Pat and personally I think he was smarter than him too
You should def listen to the rest of the series as I'll be talking about a lot of that. But Pat wasn't buying land when he was killed. The opposite, in fact. He was definitely broke and trying to sell some land.
Daggum good job
Gracias
Welcome I appreciate your efforts and hope my comments help
They do!
Gotta believe Billy stayed cause of that pecker thing. 😮
young men 😊
Invincible ❤❤
I never watched any because i don't have all day to figure out which is which so i gave up
I’ll put them all together as one long video next month
Looks like Barney was a might cowardly, and a liar
Kind of sounds like you need a Bud light
Sounds like you don't
Yer saying that bud light drinkers are light in the loafers?
He was twenty-one years old. His frontal cortex wasn’t fully developed yet. Above average intelligence or not, he demonstrated a lack of good sense.
He shoulda got gone but he didn't.
I would have got long gone.
😶🌫️
I just look at it this way Pat Garrett got what he deserved in the end he got bushwhacked to he got shot in the back so he died the way he killed Billy the kid by bushwhacking
That's debatable but I'll be discussing that very thing on next week's episode!
A1 ,,.,....,,
Thanks
😂😂😂😂😂😂 👌🥜
Oh boy. This Garret fellow is gonna be sour when he finds out Billy's been dead a long time
Ha
The worst movie Peckinpah ever made. Be better if you didn't refer to it.
I like it
I dunno "Convoy" was pretty awful and an obvious money grab.
I mean c'mon a movie based on a song?
Stay woke 👌🏻
BECAUSE BEING ON TIME IS RACIST BIGOT
Billy and Pat barely knew each other. Knew of one another. But weren't buddies like you see in the movies.
🤠🍻🍻🍻🥃🥃🥃🥃
No one comes to this channel to to get a woke lecture pal.
I don't remember what I said...care to remind me?