BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER 4x20 REACTION l The Yoko Factor
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
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Skip to 36:48 if you'd like to see my reaction to ASR's Forriley video :)
lov u
I swear this has become a rite of passage amongst Buffy reactors and I love that
@@AfterShowReactions loveeee youuuuuuu
17:00 No idea how it is with girls/women, but boys/men will always dislike the next boyfriend of their ex.
I am so glad you included this. Shan made a classic with this, and I, for one, think it should be part of any ongoing play order of future reactors watching Buffy!
Whedon mentioned that after this episode, where "girlfriend" was uttered, he received a ton of letters expressing shock.
He answered "where were you the last seven episodes?"
haha so true!!
> after this episode, where "girlfriend" was uttered, he received a ton of letters expressing shock.
After... let me get this straight, _after_ New Moon Rising? Like... people watched New Moon Rising and were surprised that Willow and Tara are girlfriends? How? What? How?
@@jonaskoelker Some people don't pay attention, I guess! Or see what they want to see. I was dumbfounded when he said it (it was on a dvd extra features, if I remember correctly).
Spike seems to have a special talent in 'reading' people's inner thoughts. Remember when, in Lovers' walk, he unmasked Buffy and Angel pretending to be 'just friends' (Buffy later admitted she could not fool him). Or when in Something blue he perfectly understood what Willow was going through when not even her closest friends had noticed how much hurt she was. But he's evil 😆so that does not mean he's always using his skills for a good purpose!
that’s a great point, damn! he’s really so perceptive
Not sure if you already got this or not, but Spike's comment about Xander "being all [he] can be" was similar to his "just a phase" comment to Willow. He invented a conversation that never happened, and then pretended to "misinterpret" it so that they wouldn't suspect him of trying to cause trouble, but the intended message would still get across. Obviously, you understood the intended message in the case of Willow and Tara. In the case of Xander, "Be All You Can Be" was a well-known recruiting slogan for the US Army at the time, thus his "joining the Army" comment. The shit-stirring message for Xander to take away from it, on the other hand, was that his friends thought he'd maxed out his potential and would never amount to anything.
In short, Spike just taught us all a master class in figuring out your enemies' insecurities, dropping related breadcrumbs attributed to their friends, and then allowing them to fill in the gaps themselves to avoid suspicion. Spike was always a compelling character, but being forced to destroy the Scoobies while literally incapable of physical violence really forces him to level up his game, and it's great.
i take angel saying "i don't like him" as code for i do actually like him which buffy understood which is why buffy said thank you. a strange way to respond if she took him literally. he said it because he would not like to hear buffy say she likes his next girlfriend. it would signal that buffy is over him. so the thank you was for trying to save her feelings.
I also like to think that it's something an exboyfriend would stereotypically say. So, in a weird way it makes Buffy feel like a normal girl for a moment, which is something we've seen her yearn for many times before.
ooooh interesting!!! totally hadn’t seen it like that, that’s so interesting!
I think it's more about Angel giving his blessing, that he trusts Riley. And in a weird way that might make Angel not like him as it allows Buffy to move past him, but he is thinking about Buffy's best interest and thus acknowledges to Buffy that he approves her choice. It's a simple line but amazing line.
Honestly, I *adored* Spike in this episode.
At his manipulative bastard best.
The fact he's so impulsive and reckless, but ALSO so perceptive always struck me as brilliant writing. Just like Lover's Walk, he immediately sees the truth of things.
On the boys jealousy, I think modern audiences put a LOT more "toxic masculinity" into it than actually exists.
Angel got attacked immediately. He's ALSO meeting Buffy's new bf KNOWING that he sacrificed their happiness to continue making amends for his past. ("I'll never forget!") I'd say a strong negative reaction is expected.
Riley sees a monster attacking his men. This is Buffy's ex, who "upset her" and who she is VERY guarded about. Buffy was not exactly forthcoming here and if you leave a lot of blanks, people will often assume the worst. What reason could he have for coming back and attacking people? Sure, it's jealousy... but I defy ANYONE to claim they'd be better. Jealousy is SUCH a common trait that its lack is often seen as a flaw. (I remember the last time I was jealous. I was 9 & sad I didn't get any presents on my brother's birthdays. I then felt physically sick when my parents got me a pity present. That sickness is what I get instead of feeling jealous. My birthday is xmas btw, just so 9yo me sounds like less of a psychopath. Basically, he got to HAVE a birthday & I didn't :P)
@@DmGray As long as you ignore all of the times Buffy and Willow have done similar things then yes I suppose it's "toxic masculinity." Because as we know jealousy and lashing out are inherently masculine traits and not just human traits that can effect anyone regardless of gender.
@@MrSupertallblackman
Exactly.
Folks are just REALLY quick to assert it when it comes to male characters (or men in general) doing something fairly ordinary.
I chalk it up to certain sexist attitudes being seen as positive.
true true, spike’s too great!!
Angel's surprise appearance in the alley was one of the Buffyverse's many awesome reveals. :) The crossovers are always interesting, and sometimes truly inspired; more to come!
so exciting :)
You probably know this already, but "The Yoko Factor" refers to the effect of the relationship of John Lennon and Yoko Ono on the Beatles, and how, it appears, the relationship fed the energies that led to the breakup of the group.
Spike went into all that during the episode
yes i figured that out hehe😫
Just another dated pop culture reference, though not quite as dated as the Zeppo.
@@MacAisling Well, come to that, all pop culture references will eventually be dated, including ones that are current today. It's kind of nice to be aware of things that were important before, so that you can get a sense of what is important now and what will be important to your own children and grandchildren. And why.
Drunk sarcastic Giles is LIFE. Yeah, the episode is a bit all over the place. They did struggle a bit with Season 4's plot because of Maggie's actress leaving halfway through. But it wraps up epically. Spike, once again, brought up insecurities or secrets. His mere presence did something similar in Lover's Walk. You're right, he told a few white lies, but they wouldn't have worked if those relationships hadn't already been strained.
Noone ever sees Adam's spear coming and yells "Run Forest"... I hold out hope still
Wow, Never thought about this before: We're all annoyed at Riley not trusting Buffy when she never earned that distrust, BUT we should remember that Riley has just been "betrayed" by the Initiative and his "Mother" - someone that he never had any reason to distrust. So he's in an unstable place regarding trust at the moment. His trust issues are warranted even though they are annoying.
Apart from that I really feel like Buffy handles the situation so well! Just think how immature she often was with Angel - here she has a calm conversation addressing the problem.
Angel told Buffy what she wanted to hear...
An ex, coming out of a tumultuous relationship, isn't supposed to like the new boyfriend.
I love your rainbow light! So pretty!
Also, sh*t stirring Spike is my favorite Spike.
I promise you, the moment WillTara fans heard "Tara is your girlfriend?" the rest of this episode was completely erased from out consciousness :-) kerk
hahaha i get it
It's funny how you saw that cliffhanger in such a polar opposite response than what I expected.
When I originally saw the aired episode, my thought was that he had just found out that his former friend was killed by Adam and he decided to face Adam alone, without Buffy and gang, for payback.
Adam sent Spike to wreak havoc on the Scoobies and by killing Riley's friend, he knew he would come at him for revenge.
It's fair for Riley to feel like he had to be over protective of Buffy from Angel.
There was bound to be warped tales from Xander of what an evil Angel could do...i.e. Jenny Calendar.
Spike is a different type of vampire. This is why Druscilla chose him. She is Clairvoyant among other skills, and he is a sensitive empath. He can read people and keeps very observant of his surroundings.
There is a rarity to the lore of the fanged four.
Same here. I remember thinking "Oh no, Riley's going to get himself killed trying to avenge Forrest!" No other possibility even occured to me.
I don't know much about the John Lennon and Yoko Ono relationship, but it makes me wonder if Spike was right? Did the band break up and she just happened to be there?
Xander was perfectly willing to talk. It wasn't just that Riley found out about Angel. He found out from someone who definitely spun it. There's nothing saying Buffy wouldn't have said something when she was ready. Is five months long enough before the ex talk? We haven't heard anything from the exes Forest says Riley has. But either way, "I'm so in love with you I can't think straight" is Riley putting the blame on Buffy because he "loves" her so much. He got angry jealous and handled it badly. An apology is necessary. And Xander deserves that talk Buffy said she was going to give him.
Spike’s right.
If Buffy wasn't ready to talk about Angel, she should have said that straight up. Buffy intentionally left out crucial information and pretended to tell him the full truth.
You claiming that "5 months may not be long enough" is justifying her actions. When you're in a relationship, you don't mislead your partner on crucial info.
@@x-man9473 SPOILERS THROUGH SEASON SEVEN
Saying nothing about exes to current relationships is how people in relationships act. It's not crucial information. If the partner is jealous that is their issue.
And if jealousy is such a problem, mentioning Angel doesn't seem like a good idea. It took Giles until the end of _Helpless_ (22 months) before Buffy opened up to him enough for communication on a deeper level other than a Slayer/Watcher relationship. Riley, by this episode, has known Buffy seven months, and was only dating her five of them. By the time they break up, Riley will have known Buffy 15 months and dated her 12 of them. He needed to be patient, and he wasn't.
Buffy would have said something in the long run, but when a relationship is as toxic as Bangel was (whether because Angel was 240+ in a 26 year old body and Buffy was underage, or because of Angelus) you don't just open up about it or even say your not ready to talk. [because that could trigger issues also]). Buffy had the right to not say anything. Especially considering Riley's issues of jealousy. Giles was patient and became a father figure. Riley wasn't and ended up getting willingly bit by a vampire and leaving town. His issues started with jealousy in this episode (although I do have issue with him calling Buffy stupid when she realizes she has Faith and Angel issues related to dating and slaying and tries to break it off). Buffy's relationship issues don't need justification, they need a therapist, and the only person who does that for her is a former classmate turned vampire in S7.
@@Buffy8Fan No no no. You're talking in circles. Ignoring what I just said.
>If she doesn't want to open up to Riley about Angel, then she needs to say "Riley. I don't want to talk about Angel right now. I'll tell you in time".
>That is not what happened. She pretended like she was telling him everything about Angel. How and why he turned evil. But she intentionally left out that this happened after they slept together. Then she ran off to see Angel and didn't explain at all why she was going to go see him. Even when she came back and he asked her directly what happened with Angel, she chose to give 0 answer.
>So of course, he's suspicious.
>No. What Buffy needs to do is to stay single until she can get over her immature obsession with Angel. Because her relationships post Angel always has her pushing this "I can't invest emotionally, because I have Angel trauma". Then proceeding to make out with Angel, the very guy who gave her trauma to begin with, whenever he shows up.
@@x-man9473 SPOILERS THROUGH MID SEASON FIVE
I never said he wasn't suspicious, but his actions don't make me say Buffy was in the wrong. That's why their not talking and him being impatient became such an issue. She doesn't have to mention Angel in terms of Riley being jealous because jealousy is about a person's pride, not about (in this case Angel). If Riley had listened to Buffy in _Doomed,_ Buffy would have eventually opened up to him and he would have been a friend turned boyfriend.
Of course Buffy needs to stay single. She actually attempted to break things off with Riley in _Doomed._ In my last comment I even mentioned in the comment that I had issues with the fact that he called her stupid and self involved.
Buffy's not acting stupid or self-involved, as Riley says to her for saying no to a relationship in that episode. She has genuine concerns that she needed to deal with before being with somebody romantically. But She didn't realize that until she saw him stepping from Joe Normal into her Slayer life. Neither Riley nor Willow respect that (Willow tries many times after Angel and after Angelus with the guy at the beginning of the _I Only Have Eyes For You_ episode to set Buffy up when she isn't ready - Buffy at one point has to tell her "I'm tired of meeting someones").
The fact that Buffy has made these realizations in _Doomed_ is wonderful, but he convinces her otherwise and gets upset about her issues keeping her from loving him in the long run.
Buffy rarely talks about Angel even when Riley isn't around and gets upset when others do because she can't without PTSD'ing. She one a fight against Spike because he pushed that button when he had The Ring of Amara on she only told Willow and Giles "Angel was cured" because Giles was trying to help her with that particular moment. But it didn't mean she was cured of Angel issues. Riley never gave her reason to talk to her about Angel. In fact by saying she was "stupid" and "self-involved" in _Doomed,_ he might as well have said he didn't want to hear it. So, his issues involving Angel and vampires and Buffy's strength couldn't be spoken.
There is nothing stupid or self-involved about her making that realization or having those issues. I agree that once in a relationship, issues she is trying to deal with herself, will come up. Which is why Buffy saying no at to Riley was a good thing. But Riley (and even Willow), pushed the issue because not dating Riley wasn't to their liking. Buffy's realization of not being ready to date Riley was smart, not "stupid" or "self-involved." She said no, but then she was pushed into thinking she was in the wrong. Therefore red flags on Riley for pushing the issue until Buffy agreed to romance before she is ready and on making it even harder to bring up Angel.
Angel opposes any man Buffy dates, no matter who they are.
They are each other's real true one love, but can't ever be together.
So, they always just orbit each other's lives.
Popping in every now and then.
Which is why the both end up saying and doing hurtful things.
Hahaha I always enjoy younger reactors who never heard of Yoko Ono
Domi "What could be a Preemvall?" 😂😂😂
15:42 I like your theory of Riley having a chip and beeing activated... 😅😅
I like your hair theory. Interacting with Faith surely left a mark on Buffy and their connection as Slayers will probably never fade completely. Although Buffy changes her hairstyle on a regular basis, the style at this point might be a sign of her accepting parts of herself that remind her of Faith.
(Spoiler Alert!!!) Interestingly enough, in the last season when Faith returns to Sunnydale, Buffy and Faith have the same sort of haircut.
@@chardtomp please mark this as a Spoiler or delete it...
It is interesting, but really?
@@serinas4465 For the love of god, the shows been out of production for twenty years and rerun a bazillion times and that's to say nothing of the fact that there are entire numerous clips of the last season all over RUclips that don't say spoiler alert on them, but as you wish. Have you seen Star Wars? I have some really shocking news about Luke Skywalkers father if your interested.
@@chardtomp it is not for me, it is for the sake of the person who watches the series for the first time and tries to avoid spoiler. You know, the person who uploaded this video you commented.
And thank you for changing it
In Riley's defence Buffy did withhold information about what turned Angel evil. He had to find out from Xander. Second point he actually did try to discuss his insecurities with Buffy, and find out what happened in LA but she avoided talking about it. Is her reluctance reasonable, maybe, but you can understand why Riley would feel kept out of the loop, or that Buffy didn't trust him enough to share that information.
true! thats an interesting point!
Maybe, but thinking she'd run back to "bone up" on her history when she knew better? Not cool.
Love the curl theory but I'm sorry to say that the curls started earlier 😂 but it's funny that this is a look she had in season 4 but never came again
The end of season 4, and in fact the whole primary story arc of season 4, was my least favorite. And yet there are still so many fantastic scenes and moments and full episodes in season 4 that it's still excellent.
Primeval, pronounced prime-evil, is similar to the word medieval, coming from the Latin for "first age." It means primitive or primordial.
The Yoko factor is a reference to Yoko Ono, who was the wife of John Lennon and accused by many to be the reason the Beatles split. They were the greatest and most successful pop band of all time with estimates of 600 - 1000 million records sold.
Spike explained this during the episode
The title is a reference to Yoko Ono being a big factor in the Beatles splitting up.
Join the Patreon to see her reaction to the other fight between Riley and Angel
"No, no, no, no, no, no, no, fuck, no, no, fuck, no, fuck, no, no, no... fuck."
That about sums up a Buffy episode.
i really like this episode, happy that you do, too. and you'll enjoy the next episode.
The Yoko Factor is a reference to Yoko Ono who was largely blamed for the Beatles breaking up after she started dating John Lennon. Though that was just misplaced fan anger.
Passion of the nerd has something similar he adds to his episode breakdowns in this season. He calls it the forest trumpet if I remember correctly. So every time forest gets all petty and jealous this really off tune horn plays.
lol all of your predictions are good BUT all of your expectations will be subverted. STRAP IN for 22
Buffy has been pretty fking harsh in the last episode in Angel and on this one. Sure her friends said some stupid shit but her response was still way too harsh.
"I'm literally going to kill myself." I'm literally sorry to hear that - we're going to miss you. Best. Leo.
RIP Forriley
Some interesting parts in this episode, highlights are Angel and Riley acting like jilted teenagers in Buffy's room, and the smug smile Angel gives Riley when she says she needs to talk to Angel alone. Also Giles being drunk and telling Buffy 'you'll get your arse kicked'. Buffy really hurts Willow and Xander when she says 'I guess that's why there is now ancient prophecy of the chosen one and her friends' after all they have done for her. Some excellent work by Spike setting all the friends against each other like a modern day Iago from Othello, there was foreshadowing for this in The Earshot episode when Buffy was reading the students mind re Othello Play. As we approach the end of S4 I have to say of all the Buffy Seasons it is the most disappointing in the closing episodes as opposed to the other Seasons, where the story arc builds towards the final episode. That said, it is still and entertaining episode in not one of the best Buffy Seasons. Giles playing Freebird is of course the highlight.
I did the search and saw nothing. "Yoko" refers to John Lennon's 2nd wife/gf who "allegedly" broke up a little band in the 60's called "The Beatles". Spike factor, really.
Prime Evil!
You're on 5x10 so this isn''t a spoiler, I think this episode was mostly filler. Next ep. Spike has to un-do the breakup Adam told him to do in the first place. What sense does that make? The Scoobies were stupid to fall for this anyway, Spike recently reminded them all that he HATES them. So we're left with a pointless Riley vs. Angel fight (inconclusive), the death of Forest (he isn't) and Riley's apparent switching sides (he didn't). Then they compress the finale into a single ep. I do like this season but there are some obvious flaws.
Yoko Ono was the wife of John Lennon, some blame her for the breakup of the Beatles.
I will be very interested to see what you make of the rest of the season.
Domi is NOT really dumb...intelligence is useless without emotion. And Domi's EQ is super high. So conclusion, Domi's got super powers!!
awww you’re sweet haha thank you!
i still hate that spike did this but youre right theirs a lot of problem in the scoobies that where already their he just made everything surf up, thank God the scoobies have a Good Strong Bound :)
Again, effing Riley. I really don't like him. I'm so in love with you I cant think straight?/? no that's toxic sir...and I would listen to Angel.
And punching your ex in face because you're angry and they're not doing what you tell them is pretty toxic too. But, I guess nobody's prefect right.
@@MrSupertallblackman True never said Buffy can't do any wrong. But she isn't toxic in her relationship with Riley.
@@midnightcryptworx Just in every other major relationship she has.
@@MrSupertallblackman in every other major romantic relationship. As a friend and daughter and Slayer she is not always the best, but not toxic. Truth be told that is part of the reason I like her best as a partner for Riley and I think her relationship with him is interesting in regards to what she wants and is able to provide when her romantic interest is not interlaced with violence and toxicity.
When Riley made that declaration, Buffy responded with "Tell me about it." That was just a more in depth way of saying I'm crazy about you.
He didn't demand anything from Buffy or try to manipulate her feelings. In fact, he asked her to break it off with him quickly if that was her intent to do.
The control was hers in that scene.
I didn't find his wording of alarm because there were no foreshadowing signs of danger to her from him.
I think her and Riley were the most mature "normal" relationships she ever had. She has stressed to both Angel ( while falling asleep in his human arms) and to Willow, how she just wanted to feel like a "normal" girl waking up in her normal lover's arms...etc.
There is something wrong with Riley, he's dull and boring! I was more than happy that he got his arse kicked by Angel! lol
Yoko Ono, wife of John Lennon, broke up the group The Beatles.
Well that's one interpretation of it.
Angel showing up on Buffy so soon after that extremely controversial Angel episode was the very last straw for a number of people I knew back when these episodes first aired. They'd nearly all given up on Angel after Sanctuary; for a smaller subset of them, this episode led them to quit Buffy as well.
I wasn't affected in the same way myself, but I'd had to deal with so much second-hand emotion over the entire brou-ha-ha that I still find it hard to watch this episode without feeling my blood pressure rise every second that Angel appears on the screen.
Why on Earth would anyone quit Angel after Sanctuary?
im sorry but Amanda dies in battle 😢
This is the episode that I think characters are written a bit out of character not the last Angel episode. Why is Angel acting like a whipped dog and apologizing to Buffy? Granted it's consistent with how they write him when he come back to Sunnydale but not consistent with his character over all. Angel isn't a submissive bitch that just does whatever Buffy or anyone for that matter says. And Buffy being mopey about Angel at this point is a little much.
I dunno.
I think his guilt drives him to do a lot of things. The torch he carries for Buffy is basically as big as the sun, so leaving things as they were in a moment of anger would be difficult. I probably WOULD have left it like that and used it to fuel some character angst... but I think it makes sense for him to want to make amends. I think Buffy admitting that he had a point is HUGE character growth, considering the circumstances.
@@DmGray I don't agree with the idea that he would feel the need to apologize for defending himself. Angel isn't a pushover even for Buffy there were numerous times in season 2 and 3 where he pushed back when she was out of line and felt no need to apologize for it.
@@MrSupertallblackman
Sure. But this one was a little tough even so.
He put Faith before her.
For all the right reasons and he was ABSOLUTELY right, but I can imagine him wanting to reassure her after the argument.
Faith is always a weak point for Buffy and Angel knows this. (Earshot)
It's definitely better when Angel isn't a pushover and tells Buffy some hard truths that nobody else is telling her. But he does simp for her fairly often too :P
@@DmGray Eh, it just doesn't sit right for how Angel is portrayed.
he's pissed he got demoted to a sub par poor substitute show
i watched this live and rewatched every year after. i did not get the subtext, until the video showed me the subtext and now it all makes perfect sense.
i did not care for his character in my original viewing after watching that video, i saw his character arc in a whole new light and it made season 4 so much better for me in rewatch.