Unfortunately, Riley's behavior towards Buffy foreshadows his later behavior... He always blames her for his own insecurities and it frankly pisses me off.
The most pathetic Riley moment is in Season 5 when Buffy finds him with the vampire prostitutes and when she confronts him about it later he just whines "But they needed me Buffy." He didn't want an equal, loving partner. He wanted a helpless damsel in distress to save so he could feel heroic.
It's because he's a boy. Not a grown man who can talk about his feelings, acknowledge his mistakes and approach a partner at eye level. Now, sure - there are plenty of supposed men who share his shortcomings, but essentially it's that kind of immaturity.
I think it all stems from him feeling insecure that his girlfriend is just more important and more powerful than him. He's not secure enough to accept buffy's love bc he feels like he's the "reacher" while Buffy is the "settler" (an idea taken from another Alyson Hannigan show) and he doesn't want that to be the case. But rather than proving he is worth something as a person/monster fighter/man he puts all the blame on buffy and it SUUUUUCKS
I really, really hated how upset he was when Buffy wasn't handling juggling her normal Slayer duties, college, the hell god trying to kill her sister, and her mom's illness in the way that HE wanted. He wanted her to breakdown in his arms because that would have made HIM feel good.
There's something that I never really considered before. There's one other major character apart from Spike who is a highly perceptive manipulator - Angelus. It makes sense that Spike would use these kind of methods given who his teacher was, and it's fitting that Angel shows up in this episode, even if he has nothing to do with the Spike part of the plot.
Oh my god! The montage of Freebird, first I thought it was funny but then I was crying and then Spike scared the hell out of Giles and I was laughing again. Soooo good.
I loved the 'I love you' point, I think the only time Buffy says she loves Riley is in Angel episode 'Sanctuary' when trying to hurt Angel during their big fight. Spike could've learnt some of the manipulation skills from Angelus too, as it is stated in Angel season 4 as part of what made Angelus so dangerous was his ability to manipulate, to 'lie with the truth'
You are correct. Buffy does tell Angel that she has someone she loves. Not only that, she drives the knife deeper by saying she trusts him because she knows him. Just Buffy rubbing it in Angel's face because he wouldn't let her get revenge on Faith.
Indeed, though I get the sense that Angelus would have thought through the details and thus more likely to be successful. Spike has been shown to be many things, but a thinker/planner was never really one of them.
The best part of this entire episode was drunk Giles. Especially the scene where everyone starts fighting, and Giles says to Buffy: "You haven't been training with me. He's going to kick your ass." Maybe one of my favorite Giles lines of the entire series.
I never really caught the masculine/feminine, tech/magic theme before. Makes me appreciate the season a bit more even though initiative arc falls flat for me. I love evil Spike. “Because I'm so in love with you I can't think straight.” YIKES and YUCK. That scene always bugs me and it doesn't help that it comes after seeing Sarah and David act together again, their chemistry is so effortless. Excited for the Restless guide.
I had read that the theme of technology vs. magic was going to be even more profound throughout the season if Professor Walsh remained on the show for the whole season. I had also read that the Giles vs. Walsh rivalry would have been even more played up, as they were the leaders of their two "factions", and they operated and lead in different ways.
I also think it is important to note that the first time Willow meets Oz (The masculine) it is because they are at a meeting for a technology company and when Willow first meets Tara (The feminine) they are at a wicca meeting.
Masculanity vs. Femininity is something I didn't notice either. At least not as something that the season was consistently builded upon. Considering I had watched this show 4 or 5 times in the last 15 years, after it had ended in 2003, it's disgurbing. Yeah Walsh was an extremely masculine figure, army and masculinity was questioned and all. Actually, come to think of it, the whole thing of Giles was what being a father figure is. But still, never noticed it was touched that much. But tech vs. magic thing was something that clearly questioned and built up by early on. Giles-Walsh, Initiatives understanding of demons contradicting how Buffy and Scoobies work and beat demons, how ancient ways are best understood by ancient traditions, methods and all.
I don't know that it fully tracks though as outside of Willow and Tara, most of the big magic users in the series are men (Giles, Ethan Rayne, Doc, Wesley...) and Jenny Calendar is the most tech savvy character.
Gotta say, Angel beating the ever unholy hell out of Riley is the best thing ever in my honest opinion. My only nitpick is that it was too short lived. Also, definitely agree with you on the bit about Riley's copout about loving her so much he can't think straight. So bs.
The first time around I wasn't that bothered with the Buffy and Angel romance, or even the Angel character, but when it was clear we were getting a boyfriend fight here I vividly remember yelling: Kick his ass Angel!
Seeing Angel teach Riley what a real vampire is capable of was absolutely glorious. It's actually funny that Riley thought he stood a chance against Angel.
You didn't include the bit with Buffy throwing Angel and Riley across the room? Or about how Angel and Buffy get a slightly more satisfying conclusion in this episode? Darn. I know you can't cover everything but those were two of my favorite bits. Though I am glad you put in Miss Kitty Fantastico and "Tara's your girlfriend?!" / "Bloody hell!".
Despite having quite possibly the worst arc of all the seasons, season 4 has still long been my favourite, due almost solely to all the charm, charisma and... well, Spike. Very much looking forwards to your take on Restless.
I love that you hate Riley (and anyone, for that matter) not taking responsibility for their own feelings! I can't deal with it when people try to shift their own jealousy issues onto their partner ('you just make me so cRaZyy!!1' UGH), when it's really on them.
Saying "you just make me so crazy" would already be admitting he's the one having issues, but what he says here is "I'm so in love with you I can't think straight" which is even more clearly admitting his own issues.
It's the same reason I can't stand Joyce (and to a lesser degree the gang) in Deadman's Party where they make Buffy's departure entirely about themselves. They refuse to either take some responsibility for creating the situation in which Buffy felt like she couldn't turn to them or try to empathize with why a girl who'd just been forced to murder her boyfriend for the greater good couldn't just come back and be there for them. I mean Willow almost literally says "who cares what you were going through, I'm mad that you weren't here to be my emotional support".
People who blame everything and everyone but themselves for things that are their fault are frustrating in general. If Riley had admitted he was being a jealous asshole it would have been fine but he pulled the "I just love you so much I can't help myself" routine.
"Because I'm so in love with you I can't think straight" is manipulative gaslighting speak for "You get a red flag and YOU get a red flag. EVERYONE gets a red flag!"
Love it as all was! Wish you had discussed the Bangel moment more, I agree that it doesn’t fix what happened in sanctuary but it says a lot about their relationship and them as individuals that they always make the effort (In the Dark, Pangs,Sanctuary, the Yokohama Factor, The Body).
Bits I loved: - Spike can be dangerous even if he can't hurt people (S6 - > Spike - Buffy) - #PENISANGLE - Angel asks Buffy if she's OK, Riley doesn't - - - how could I miss this??? I thought 'just a girl' echoes the basis of the show, as in men not giving credit to women or simply underestimating them. See also werewolf hunter in Phases and boy in alleyway in The gift. Xander believing that Buffy and Willow was laughing at him, I think if one has inferiority and self esteem issues, and those would be openly called out, mentioned as Spike did, they would definitely freak out and believe almost anything. Xander has been insecure about not being in school, or having a decent job, so when Spike says his friends not only noticed but agree and make fun of him, it is natural that he reacts as he does. His insecurities has been reinforced and that sets him off and puts logic, trust or friendship aside. Now if he would have had a week to think about it and digest this information he might have had doubts whether Buffy and Willow truly done that or question Spike's agenda, but he only had a few hours.
Yet another reason on the list of why I dislike Xander. He blatantly left out key parts of Buffy’s history with Angel and the curse, and to make it worse, it wasn’t even his place to tell the story. Also, I love your commentary on Riley’s... ahem... “apology.” Spot on.
That's a large flaw in him in general. He tends to feel entitled to say things that he has no place saying and make decisions for others he has no right to as if he has the moral high ground when he is really just jealous and petty. Remember when he told Buffy Willow wanted her to kick Angel's ass and left out the part of being able to restore his soul? Or the time he told Dawn about how Spike tried to rape Buffy? Or how he broke Anya's heart and left her at the altar, but felt he had the right to get back together with her after and berate her for sleeping with Spike. And he feels he has this right because he's so madly in love with them. Honestly I've never really liked him. He has way too many flaws and no real redeeming traits. These sites go into more detail on the subject and do it better than I do: xanderpostforanon.tumblr.com/post/55735740941/why-i-hate-xander-harris-a-summary-with www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/5unedp/why_i_hate_xander/
@@EmoBearRights Well maybe, but they don't really seem to outweigh his flaws and I think that's why he gets such a negative reaction from people. That and the fact that he never once apologises or takes responsibility for the damage he does.
This review is dead on. Great points. To add to the Riley “because I love you so much I can’t think straight” it reminded me of your comparison of Angel/Buffy selfless love and Spike/Drusilla possessive love. Riley wants to possess and control Buffy, because that’s what the initiative has taught him is love and family. And because he’s a putz.
I love all of Giles's drunken lines in the big fight scene at the end. They're all just really funny and kind of distracted me from the fighting going on between the other three.
Sorry to jump ahead: Truth be told, were the Slayer origin in "Get It Done" introduced earlier, then that would have opened some interesting avenues for Adam as a character, not only as a obstacle, because like Adam, the Slayers are outcasts and overall cut off from societt. Because i do find the Frankenstein trope to be fascinating. It's a shame it's used here in service of a villain for his strength, rather than having an identity
Well, we do not know if they had written slayer's origins back then. Some powerful men, gave power to a powerless girl, to protect them, and their world.
Adam was a very last minute thing- Maggie Walsh was supposed to be the big bad but the actor pulled out with virtually no minute. The “Yoko factor” was supposed to be a dragged out psychological warfare- and yeah Spike was supposed to be a part of that still.
Once again an outstanding video!!!! I had forgotten how much I liked this episode and you reminded of the reasons why. One small quibble. Giles is always smoldering when he sings no matter what the song choice. I go straight on fan girl when I hear Anthony sing. 💓💖
Excellent Ian, not even done yet and I have to thanks for giving the correct Riley response when he (the writers) came out with the stock be-smitten don't blame me blargh.
you're definitely right S4 mightily struggled with its ark, talking about the cast departures David Boreanaz (who left the show in style) and Charisma Carpenter left for the spin-off Angel, and several new characters were brought in to fill their shoes: Anya (introduced in S3, but not yet a "series regular"), Spike, Riley & Tara. Seth Green stayed for the first few episodes before leaving in "Wild at Heart"
Wood fights an epic battle against watery milk 😂😂😂 Haaaaaaaaa! Also, I love your dead-on, feminist breakdown of Riley's I'm so in love with you I can't see straight line. Too many controlling actions/tendencies are framed as romantic. I think you might really be onto something about Riley's (perhaps) latent control issues. And I *adore* your reading of the significance of Angel being the only one to ask after her injury and the fact Buffy doesn't say I love you back. The series is littered with these hints that Bangel will always love each other. And its nice foreshadowing of next season and Riley's declaration of how Buffy feels about him. The Giles Freebird as foreshadowing montage was upsetting and brilliant. Do you think the writers were going for that or it was happy coincidence? Lastly, I love how you called out Spike as truth teller and called him a manipulator instead. That is so spot-on. Joss referred to Spike as the new Cordelia i.e. Truth Teller for s4, but it never quite held together. And that's why. Spike was speaking entirely from self-interest/self-indulgence.
Thank you for leaving in the totally of Giles' FreeBird. ❤ I actually prefer his rendidion to the actual song. And Spike makes sure it doesn't drone on like said original has a tendency to.
Am I the only one who thought it was a little strange that Xander, Willow’s oldest friend, learned about her and Tara so vicariously and he didn’t mind that she never told him anything about it before? It’s been long established that Xander resents being left out of the loop, even in that scene he is mad that Buffy and Willow are more close and honest with each other than with him. It’s not that it’s not a funny scene, but the fact that he had never talked about with Willow on screen- the way Buffy does in the next episode, seemed honestly odd to me, especially given Xander and Willow’s past and short dalliance after Homecoming.
@@alanedark1538 I think Xander, who is in many ways in my eyes a representation of all things good and bad in the struggles of modern masculinity, has a hard time expressing non violent or non sexual emotions, though I don't think that means he doesn't feel those emotions. I would say I expected Xander's fragile masculinity to take a blow form Willow's sudden Lesbianism (don't get me started on bi-erasure on this show), and while I appreciate that the show didn't go there, it was a little surprising character wise. The main justification I do see for this nonchalant treatment of Willow's coming out, and without spoiling anything here, their friendship is basically downplayed since Lovers Walk for a long time in the series. (I think it's a bit of a shame because I absolutely love their friendship, but we can't have everything...)
Riley’s just a boy in love He can’t be held responsible for his actions He has no underlying issues to address He’s certifiably cute and adorably obsessed!
I wonder if they could just have explained Riley's ridiculous jealousy with his disillusionment in the Initiative and his whole belief system. All that he believed in crashed down around him and he had to hide out in the basement of a blown-up school. It's not a stretch that what would normally have been a little insecurity that he could have dealt with on his own, might develop into a bigger issue as he tries to hold on to what little he has left in his ever-increasing feeling of powerlessness. But no. They went with cringey dumb love-talk.
Whenever I watch this episode I like to watch the Angel vs Riley fight scene 2 or 3 times because I love watching Riley get his ass kicked. Must be schadenfreude.
Awesome work and always 😊. When you do the conclusion of "the initiative" episode, I strongly recommend capturing the "burn it to the ground...and salt the earth" scene.
Oooooh, that sublime fight! It's what I adore the most about this episode!! I'm telling you, I live for arguments between beloved main characters!! Thanks, Ian!!
Fantastic Ian, as expected, keep doing the videos YOU want as they are truly brilliant. Also, I'm very much longing for a Passion of the Nerd // Still Dead crossover - I cannot even imagine the discussions.
I don't think Riley meant "Jealousy just happens". I think when he said "Sometimes stuff happens between exes" he meant that sometimes people allow the old spark that lingers between themselves and their former lovers to flare up momentarily. That line was more about him believing that it was possible that Buffy had slept with Angel in _Sanctuary._ Consider that Riley also makes it clear that he believes Angel is Angelus again; thanks to Xander, he knows how that works. Riley wasn't defending his jealousy (not with _that_ particular line anyway). He was presenting his suspicions.
I feel Riley’s comment blaming Buffy is a character trait that suits him. Plus his trust issues aren’t with the Initiative because he’s trained to obey them, “be a good boy”; I feel like it makes sense he’s less trusting after separating from them and because Buffy is all he has now. He leans on her so when her ex comes to town... It’s ridiculous and macho and flawed and stubborn. And that’s okay for the character. It’s not out of character. And it’s not out of character for Buffy to accept his answer for the honest admission of love that it is.
Thank you for all the work you put in to make these, I love them so much, always a highlight when a new episode comes out. Just wanted to show you some appreciation! ❤️
I love your Buffy reviews. I wish you could review Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Dollhouse - all at once. I know it's impossible but I hope you'll get there one day.
I imagine your take on Restless will be quite long. My elder sister and I have been a Buffy fan for at least 18 years, and if I can talk about Restless for around 45 minutes, I can't imagine what you'll say on it. Almost every scene in that episode has some deep meaning
I've been watching btvs for the first time and I got to this episode and was very confused because the previously on BTVS showed a scene with Buffy Angel and Faith that I definitely didn't see! after a bunch of research I realised it was a scene from the spin off angel that began and the beginning of this season!!! Just thought to drop this incase others didn't know about the spin off and was confused! Gonna go watch Angel now
I JUST realized that Buffy without the cape as red riding hood reminds me of her outfit as Anne when she ran away from home. Even the braids are the same right?
I feel like Xander just sees himself in Riley. Xander is always slow on catching on in conversation. So I read this scene as Xander waiting for Riley to catch on to what Xander is saying even though he should already know. Besides how many times had Dawn spoiled something? Way more than Xander, I think. And he still gets all this hate. All these characters are flawed and make mistakes. Xander's mistake are the ones most closely based in reality. But in my opinion dont deserve anymore hate than any other.
The "well other characters are terrible sometimes to" doesn't exactly hold up too well. If I robbed a bank I'm not getting off the hook for it by saying "Well that other guy robbed a bank."
@@BadWolf739 my point isnt that all the characters make mistakes but rather why is he held more accountable than the others? is over sharing worse than mass murder? like angel, spike, or faith? worse than cheating on your partner like willow and oz on separate occasions? worse the putting others in danger like all the characters have? worse then buffy putting dating before slaying on numerous occassions? yet all those characters get a pass, why? shouldn't we hold xander to the same standards as everyone else? I think people hate him because they're not willing to see themselves un him.
@@samanthasalmon1682 The other characters get a pass for these things because they themselves hold themselves accountable or they face nasty consequences for their actions. Faith atoned for her sins by submitting to the police and voluntarily staying in jail despite having the power to break out. Each time Buffy prioritised her social life over her duty something bad happened to her. When Willow and Oz cheated on each other they admitted there mistakes and poured a massive amount of energy into making amends. Conversely every time Xander does one of these things he is never held accountable. He lies about Willow's plan to reensoul Angel because he wants the guy dead knowingly effecting Buffy's tactics and options in a battle to the death. How did he pay for that? A stern word five years later. And it's like that for almost the entire series. It takes till Season 6's Hell's Bells for one of his stupid decisions to have a consequence for him. So yes while everyone makes mistakes the show doesn't hold the characters to the same standards with regards to those mistakes. Xander is held more accountable for his actions by the fanbase because he's held less accountable for them in his own universe. When Dawn makes a mistake and almost dies she gets chewed out by Buffy, he's held responsible for that mistake. When Xander makes a mistake it gets skipped over by everyone. As for Angel and Spike they are somewhat exempt from accountability as long as they are soulless. They aren't capable of acting better than they do. Mistakes they make while ensoulled like Angel serving up a room full of lawyers to Drusilla and Darla should rightly be put on them. Not that that makes the action itself right but rather they are not morally responsible. There is a reason why there is a clear distinction between Angel and Angelus.
I actually think it would make sense if Xander joined the military. It would tie in the previous military references and if Xander secretly likes the idea of being a soldier that might explain why he held on to the memories from turning into his Halloween costume when no one else did. I've been trying to think of ways season 4 could have been better and I think Xander joining the initiative would be the perfect thing to make us care about them. I can see why it would appeal to him, normal human men fighting the monsters. And I can imagine Xander trying to tell Buffy she can stop being the slayer because he and the guys have it handled. She can just settle down and be his wife if she doesn't have to fight monsters 🙄
Ah, one of those episodes that was a double punch of "This is why I hate Xander" and "This is why I hate Riley", all wrapped up in a bow. Well...check that. It's PART of why I hate Xander. There are so many reasons that you can't fit them all into just one episode. Especially since he can't both be a judgey, self-righteous douchebag AND be able to fall for Spike's manipulation at the same time.
"Comic Book Annual". I like that categorization. I've often compared it to a British Christmas Special, though I have plenty family and friends that don't understand that concept either.
This is one of those episodes where Riley is at his most Riley. Pretty but empty and meaningless words that sound just romantic enough to distract from the fact that Riley is little more than a mass of insecurities, jealousies, and overt possessive neediness. First time through the series this is easy to overlook or dismiss. But it becomes all the more apparent when you look at just about any show that has popped up on the WB and CW since Buffy ended. By itself Buffy and most of Whedon's work is great. But when you look at all the imitators and copy cats in pop culture who blindly followed the plots and trappings of his works without any respect or acknowledgement of the themes and subtext of the work you see that a few toxic and annoying trends have risen to the surface of most network melodramas these days. One possible saving grace for this is that Riley is quite literally engaging in the same fatalistic "Bangel Speak" scenes from earlier seasons, and Buffy almost always responds with calm, mature, and level headed counter points. If it weren't for the show trying to convince us that Riley is a real character his scenes would be a perfect way for Buffy to grow as a person by acknowledging that he looks at her the same way she looked at Angel and how that mindset doomed the relationship from the start. But we never got that realization because Riley gobbled up too much damn screen time and didn't get killed off nearly fast enough. On a related note, this is why I stopped watching Supergirl after Mon El ruined Season 2. Every episode that season had a tacked on scene near the beginning with Mon El acting like Parker, then they moved on with the actual plot, then each episode ended with him doing the same lost puppy dog eyes "I'm so in love with you that I can't be held accountable for my douchebaggery." shtick that Riley did here and in just about all his other scenes with Buffy. I could put up with this once for a great show that told an empowering story. I can't put up with it again for a lesser show that only feigned empowerment, and ignored all the themes and narratives crucial to telling an actually empowering story.
I've been through many-a-rewatch, and yet the Yoko Factor always gave me anxiety for some reason so I've probably only seen it the one time, maybe two, at best. After watching this I gotta say I'll give it a shot.
Omg I never even made the connection between free bird and Giles leaving Buffy. But also him saying “ if you lead a child by the hand. They’ll never find their own footing” to Maggie Walsh in A new man. Compared with the “Wish I could play the father and take you by the hand”
Huzzah! Another Buffy analysis! Thumbs up! (I'm an old fart, but I love these vids, and bought and read the $.99 Kindle book you recommended immediately upon finding your channel years back.)
I think Spike gave the most accurate name for Riley "Captain Cardboard".
Indeed, and I think Angel probably speaks for many fans when he asks "You actually sleep with this guy?"
🤣
@@timf7413 Indeed. I also very much enjoyed seeing Angel slap Riley around
I love how all three of her boyfriends have 'captain' nicknames in canon. Captain Forehead, Captain Cardboard, Captain Peroxide. The unholy trinity.
That little scream Giles does when Spike startles him is 10/10
I second that 😂
I was disappointed the video didn't end with his scream again for a stinger. I needed to hear it again :-)
As Scully would say...'Are you sure it wasn't a girly scream?'
Unfortunately, Riley's behavior towards Buffy foreshadows his later behavior... He always blames her for his own insecurities and it frankly pisses me off.
Riley is a dullard.
The most pathetic Riley moment is in Season 5 when Buffy finds him with the vampire prostitutes and when she confronts him about it later he just whines "But they needed me Buffy." He didn't want an equal, loving partner. He wanted a helpless damsel in distress to save so he could feel heroic.
It's because he's a boy. Not a grown man who can talk about his feelings, acknowledge his mistakes and approach a partner at eye level. Now, sure - there are plenty of supposed men who share his shortcomings, but essentially it's that kind of immaturity.
I think it all stems from him feeling insecure that his girlfriend is just more important and more powerful than him. He's not secure enough to accept buffy's love bc he feels like he's the "reacher" while Buffy is the "settler" (an idea taken from another Alyson Hannigan show) and he doesn't want that to be the case. But rather than proving he is worth something as a person/monster fighter/man he puts all the blame on buffy and it SUUUUUCKS
I really, really hated how upset he was when Buffy wasn't handling juggling her normal Slayer duties, college, the hell god trying to kill her sister, and her mom's illness in the way that HE wanted. He wanted her to breakdown in his arms because that would have made HIM feel good.
There's something that I never really considered before. There's one other major character apart from Spike who is a highly perceptive manipulator - Angelus. It makes sense that Spike would use these kind of methods given who his teacher was, and it's fitting that Angel shows up in this episode, even if he has nothing to do with the Spike part of the plot.
Oh my god! The montage of Freebird, first I thought it was funny but then I was crying and then Spike scared the hell out of Giles and I was laughing again. Soooo good.
The periodic reminder of "By the way, Forrest is still dead. You forgot again, didn't you?" had me in stitches.
It was correct and true in its statement. 🤣
"She's petting Tara's kitty..." *oh you!*
I loved the 'I love you' point, I think the only time Buffy says she loves Riley is in Angel episode 'Sanctuary' when trying to hurt Angel during their big fight. Spike could've learnt some of the manipulation skills from Angelus too, as it is stated in Angel season 4 as part of what made Angelus so dangerous was his ability to manipulate, to 'lie with the truth'
You are correct. Buffy does tell Angel that she has someone she loves. Not only that, she drives the knife deeper by saying she trusts him because she knows him. Just Buffy rubbing it in Angel's face because he wouldn't let her get revenge on Faith.
Indeed, though I get the sense that Angelus would have thought through the details and thus more likely to be successful. Spike has been shown to be many things, but a thinker/planner was never really one of them.
The best part of this entire episode was drunk Giles. Especially the scene where everyone starts fighting, and Giles says to Buffy: "You haven't been training with me. He's going to kick your ass." Maybe one of my favorite Giles lines of the entire series.
'fort DIX'
@@mooble1325 😂😂😂
Church approved
For me it's "Ah I'm no Alfred. You forget, Alfred had a job."
And you can hear the hints of his Ripper accent coming in
I never really caught the masculine/feminine, tech/magic theme before. Makes me appreciate the season a bit more even though initiative arc falls flat for me. I love evil Spike. “Because I'm so in love with you I can't think straight.” YIKES and YUCK. That scene always bugs me and it doesn't help that it comes after seeing Sarah and David act together again, their chemistry is so effortless. Excited for the Restless guide.
I had read that the theme of technology vs. magic was going to be even more profound throughout the season if Professor Walsh remained on the show for the whole season. I had also read that the Giles vs. Walsh rivalry would have been even more played up, as they were the leaders of their two "factions", and they operated and lead in different ways.
I also think it is important to note that the first time Willow meets Oz (The masculine) it is because they are at a meeting for a technology company and when Willow first meets Tara (The feminine) they are at a wicca meeting.
Masculanity vs. Femininity is something I didn't notice either. At least not as something that the season was consistently builded upon. Considering I had watched this show 4 or 5 times in the last 15 years, after it had ended in 2003, it's disgurbing. Yeah Walsh was an extremely masculine figure, army and masculinity was questioned and all. Actually, come to think of it, the whole thing of Giles was what being a father figure is. But still, never noticed it was touched that much.
But tech vs. magic thing was something that clearly questioned and built up by early on. Giles-Walsh, Initiatives understanding of demons contradicting how Buffy and Scoobies work and beat demons, how ancient ways are best understood by ancient traditions, methods and all.
@@CaitlinBloodyMary Never thought of that! Kudos!!!!
I don't know that it fully tracks though as outside of Willow and Tara, most of the big magic users in the series are men (Giles, Ethan Rayne, Doc, Wesley...) and Jenny Calendar is the most tech savvy character.
That Freebird segment slayed me. Additionally, can we make Adam's "these are lies" a thing? I feel like it needs to be a thing. Great analysis Ian!
Gotta say, Angel beating the ever unholy hell out of Riley is the best thing ever in my honest opinion. My only nitpick is that it was too short lived. Also, definitely agree with you on the bit about Riley's copout about loving her so much he can't think straight. So bs.
Spike absolutely sparkles (non Twilight way) in this episode! His borderline sociopathy is real a joy to behold! 💖💖💖💖💖
Awww. I love how you describe Buffy as a once-in-a-lifetime girl. She is 😊 Post season 7 some ppl are so harsh about her.
Angel kicking the shit out of Riley is the highlight of this episode.
The first time around I wasn't that bothered with the Buffy and Angel romance, or even the Angel character, but when it was clear we were getting a boyfriend fight here I vividly remember yelling:
Kick his ass Angel!
Seeing Angel teach Riley what a real vampire is capable of was absolutely glorious. It's actually funny that Riley thought he stood a chance against Angel.
The part of this episode that I always remember is Riley's "Wait, this is what he's like when he's GOOD?"
You didn't include the bit with Buffy throwing Angel and Riley across the room? Or about how Angel and Buffy get a slightly more satisfying conclusion in this episode? Darn. I know you can't cover everything but those were two of my favorite bits.
Though I am glad you put in Miss Kitty Fantastico and "Tara's your girlfriend?!" / "Bloody hell!".
When she holds up the admonishing finger to both of them, I always crack up.
@@timf7413 "He started it!"
Despite having quite possibly the worst arc of all the seasons, season 4 has still long been my favourite, due almost solely to all the charm, charisma and... well, Spike.
Very much looking forwards to your take on Restless.
Season 4 has extreme highs and lows, but each time I watch it, I find myself liking it more and more.
Season 3 is the absolute best.
I love that you hate Riley (and anyone, for that matter) not taking responsibility for their own feelings! I can't deal with it when people try to shift their own jealousy issues onto their partner ('you just make me so cRaZyy!!1' UGH), when it's really on them.
Saying "you just make me so crazy" would already be admitting he's the one having issues, but what he says here is "I'm so in love with you I can't think straight" which is even more clearly admitting his own issues.
It's the same reason I can't stand Joyce (and to a lesser degree the gang) in Deadman's Party where they make Buffy's departure entirely about themselves. They refuse to either take some responsibility for creating the situation in which Buffy felt like she couldn't turn to them or try to empathize with why a girl who'd just been forced to murder her boyfriend for the greater good couldn't just come back and be there for them. I mean Willow almost literally says "who cares what you were going through, I'm mad that you weren't here to be my emotional support".
@@BadWolf739 I agree she was wanted for murder..to which Oz had to inform her she was not anymore . Logically Buffy smart move is to leave town.
People who blame everything and everyone but themselves for things that are their fault are frustrating in general. If Riley had admitted he was being a jealous asshole it would have been fine but he pulled the "I just love you so much I can't help myself" routine.
@@GonesmPES "you make me" is not admitting responsibility, it's pretending you're someone else's puppet
"Because I'm so in love with you I can't think straight" is manipulative gaslighting speak for "You get a red flag and YOU get a red flag. EVERYONE gets a red flag!"
Once again 11/10
Love it as all was! Wish you had discussed the Bangel moment more, I agree that it doesn’t fix what happened in sanctuary but it says a lot about their relationship and them as individuals that they always make the effort (In the Dark, Pangs,Sanctuary, the Yokohama Factor, The Body).
stephanie herrera He said in Sanctuary that he was over Bangel by that point.
Oh my God, I literally forgot Forrest died! I was under the assumption that he just leaves with Riley. I have no memory of his death in the show lol
He's so forgettable I don't blame you.
This 'Freebird' edit is pure magic! It shows the essence of their relationship in such a really beautiful way!
Cant wait! Cant wait! Cant wait! Been having TPN review withdrawls
So have I.
Bits I loved:
- Spike can be dangerous even if he can't hurt people (S6 - > Spike - Buffy)
- #PENISANGLE
- Angel asks Buffy if she's OK, Riley doesn't - - - how could I miss this???
I thought 'just a girl' echoes the basis of the show, as in men not giving credit to women or simply underestimating them. See also werewolf hunter in Phases and boy in alleyway in The gift.
Xander believing that Buffy and Willow was laughing at him, I think if one has inferiority and self esteem issues, and those would be openly called out, mentioned as Spike did, they would definitely freak out and believe almost anything. Xander has been insecure about not being in school, or having a decent job, so when Spike says his friends not only noticed but agree and make fun of him, it is natural that he reacts as he does. His insecurities has been reinforced and that sets him off and puts logic, trust or friendship aside. Now if he would have had a week to think about it and digest this information he might have had doubts whether Buffy and Willow truly done that or question Spike's agenda, but he only had a few hours.
"You have a catnip problem!"
... Huh.
Stop it, Ian. I can't take it.
When Angel and Riley are about to fight the second time the background music builds then immediately dies out once Buffy throws them across the room.
Yet another reason on the list of why I dislike Xander. He blatantly left out key parts of Buffy’s history with Angel and the curse, and to make it worse, it wasn’t even his place to tell the story.
Also, I love your commentary on Riley’s... ahem... “apology.” Spot on.
Nice points all around there. Remind me again, why was Xander "the one who sees". That descrip befits more Oz
Well, Xander had always been bit of a loudmouth who tended to just say something, just in order to have been said something.
That's a large flaw in him in general. He tends to feel entitled to say things that he has no place saying and make decisions for others he has no right to as if he has the moral high ground when he is really just jealous and petty. Remember when he told Buffy Willow wanted her to kick Angel's ass and left out the part of being able to restore his soul? Or the time he told Dawn about how Spike tried to rape Buffy? Or how he broke Anya's heart and left her at the altar, but felt he had the right to get back together with her after and berate her for sleeping with Spike. And he feels he has this right because he's so madly in love with them. Honestly I've never really liked him. He has way too many flaws and no real redeeming traits. These sites go into more detail on the subject and do it better than I do:
xanderpostforanon.tumblr.com/post/55735740941/why-i-hate-xander-harris-a-summary-with
www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/5unedp/why_i_hate_xander/
@@EmoBearRights Well maybe, but they don't really seem to outweigh his flaws and I think that's why he gets such a negative reaction from people. That and the fact that he never once apologises or takes responsibility for the damage he does.
Cynical Cthulhu yessss omg thank you for this! I needed some fresh validation to water my “Xander Harris is the worst character” crops
This review is dead on. Great points. To add to the Riley “because I love you so much I can’t think straight” it reminded me of your comparison of Angel/Buffy selfless love and Spike/Drusilla possessive love. Riley wants to possess and control Buffy, because that’s what the initiative has taught him is love and family. And because he’s a putz.
I love all of Giles's drunken lines in the big fight scene at the end. They're all just really funny and kind of distracted me from the fighting going on between the other three.
Sorry to jump ahead: Truth be told, were the Slayer origin in "Get It Done" introduced earlier, then that would have opened some interesting avenues for Adam as a character, not only as a obstacle, because like Adam, the Slayers are outcasts and overall cut off from societt. Because i do find the Frankenstein trope to be fascinating. It's a shame it's used here in service of a villain for his strength, rather than having an identity
Well, we do not know if they had written slayer's origins back then.
Some powerful men, gave power to a powerless girl, to protect them, and their world.
Adam was a very last minute thing- Maggie Walsh was supposed to be the big bad but the actor pulled out with virtually no minute. The “Yoko factor” was supposed to be a dragged out psychological warfare- and yeah Spike was supposed to be a part of that still.
Once again an outstanding video!!!! I had forgotten how much I liked this episode and you reminded of the reasons why.
One small quibble. Giles is always smoldering when he sings no matter what the song choice. I go straight on fan girl when I hear Anthony sing. 💓💖
Colonel van Not Walsh 🤣🤣😂
Buffy's fear of love leading to loss and isolation started with her dad abandoning her
That Giles bit made me cry in public. Why do this to me Ian
Loved the Giles montage.
"These are lies" killed me.
I love the Giles non spoiler spoilers 😍🤣🙈
As always an amazing guide! I love how you talked about Spikes manipulation of the scoobies.
Why the long shot of Willow stroking Tara's... ooooooh.
Excellent Ian, not even done yet and I have to thanks for giving the correct Riley response when he (the writers) came out with the stock be-smitten don't blame me blargh.
Dude you killed me with the Freebird montage 😢😭
Giles' freebird is everything, so sad there is no full version withought the interuption
you're definitely right S4 mightily struggled with its ark, talking about the cast departures David Boreanaz (who left the show in style) and Charisma Carpenter left for the spin-off Angel, and several new characters were brought in to fill their shoes: Anya (introduced in S3, but not yet a "series regular"), Spike, Riley & Tara. Seth Green stayed for the first few episodes before leaving in "Wild at Heart"
OMFG how did I never see the foreshadowing of the Freebird song? 😩
Hell yeah Ian! You the man! This made my Tuesday!
Wood fights an epic battle against watery milk 😂😂😂 Haaaaaaaaa!
Also, I love your dead-on, feminist breakdown of Riley's I'm so in love with you I can't see straight line. Too many controlling actions/tendencies are framed as romantic. I think you might really be onto something about Riley's (perhaps) latent control issues.
And I *adore* your reading of the significance of Angel being the only one to ask after her injury and the fact Buffy doesn't say I love you back. The series is littered with these hints that Bangel will always love each other. And its nice foreshadowing of next season and Riley's declaration of how Buffy feels about him.
The Giles Freebird as foreshadowing montage was upsetting and brilliant. Do you think the writers were going for that or it was happy coincidence?
Lastly, I love how you called out Spike as truth teller and called him a manipulator instead. That is so spot-on. Joss referred to Spike as the new Cordelia i.e. Truth Teller for s4, but it never quite held together. And that's why. Spike was speaking entirely from self-interest/self-indulgence.
I read the first line of your comment and at first I thought you were talking about principal wood but we haven't met him yet
@@werlost Ha, no. I was just quoting Ian's hilarious Riley smackdown.
Poor Kitty Fantastico... the scooby that got so little air time.
"this is stupid nonsense." completely true but also the bluntness made me laugh so much!
Thank you for leaving in the totally of Giles' FreeBird. ❤
I actually prefer his rendidion to the actual song. And Spike makes sure it doesn't drone on like said original has a tendency to.
You should listen to Juliet Simms's version, it's pretty good as well
Am I the only one who thought it was a little strange that Xander, Willow’s oldest friend, learned about her and Tara so vicariously and he didn’t mind that she never told him anything about it before? It’s been long established that Xander resents being left out of the loop, even in that scene he is mad that Buffy and Willow are more close and honest with each other than with him. It’s not that it’s not a funny scene, but the fact that he had never talked about with Willow on screen- the way Buffy does in the next episode, seemed honestly odd to me, especially given Xander and Willow’s past and short dalliance after Homecoming.
@@alanedark1538 I think Xander, who is in many ways in my eyes a representation of all things good and bad in the struggles of modern masculinity, has a hard time expressing non violent or non sexual emotions, though I don't think that means he doesn't feel those emotions. I would say I expected Xander's fragile masculinity to take a blow form Willow's sudden Lesbianism (don't get me started on bi-erasure on this show), and while I appreciate that the show didn't go there, it was a little surprising character wise. The main justification I do see for this nonchalant treatment of Willow's coming out, and without spoiling anything here, their friendship is basically downplayed since Lovers Walk for a long time in the series. (I think it's a bit of a shame because I absolutely love their friendship, but we can't have everything...)
Riley’s just a boy in love
He can’t be held responsible for his actions
He has no underlying issues to address
He’s certifiably cute and adorably obsessed!
Hey fellow Crazy Ex girlfriend fan! 😊Damn that song is appropriate here. Riley, STOP.
Crazy ex girlfriend reference!!!
Riley is Trent?. Trent is Riley?
Angel is definitely Josh and Spike is Nathaniel
He's a male ingenue!
I wonder if they could just have explained Riley's ridiculous jealousy with his disillusionment in the Initiative and his whole belief system. All that he believed in crashed down around him and he had to hide out in the basement of a blown-up school. It's not a stretch that what would normally have been a little insecurity that he could have dealt with on his own, might develop into a bigger issue as he tries to hold on to what little he has left in his ever-increasing feeling of powerlessness.
But no. They went with cringey dumb love-talk.
"These are lies." is my new favorite reaction clip. Along with WHATS HAPPENING!?
Whenever I watch this episode I like to watch the Angel vs Riley fight scene 2 or 3 times because I love watching Riley get his ass kicked. Must be schadenfreude.
Why is Spike, who is a vampire, feigning being out of breath before going to disrupt the Scoobies? Bearing in mind he's a vampire?
Awesome work and always 😊. When you do the conclusion of "the initiative" episode, I strongly recommend capturing the "burn it to the ground...and salt the earth" scene.
"I like Helter skelter" might be my favorite line in the whole series
Bravo sir, bravo!
Oooooh, that sublime fight! It's what I adore the most about this episode!! I'm telling you, I live for arguments between beloved main characters!!
Thanks, Ian!!
Fantastic Ian, as expected, keep doing the videos YOU want as they are truly brilliant.
Also, I'm very much longing for a Passion of the Nerd // Still Dead crossover - I cannot even imagine the discussions.
itsLily00 Still Pretty, maybe.
2:39
NOOOOO I WAS NOT PREPARED TO CRY TODAY, that actually hurt me oh god
I don't think Riley meant "Jealousy just happens". I think when he said "Sometimes stuff happens between exes" he meant that sometimes people allow the old spark that lingers between themselves and their former lovers to flare up momentarily. That line was more about him believing that it was possible that Buffy had slept with Angel in _Sanctuary._ Consider that Riley also makes it clear that he believes Angel is Angelus again; thanks to Xander, he knows how that works.
Riley wasn't defending his jealousy (not with _that_ particular line anyway). He was presenting his suspicions.
It makes my day when I see a new video from you. They are always insightful, thought provoking and amusing. Many warm thanks for all your work.
I feel Riley’s comment blaming Buffy is a character trait that suits him. Plus his trust issues aren’t with the Initiative because he’s trained to obey them, “be a good boy”; I feel like it makes sense he’s less trusting after separating from them and because Buffy is all he has now. He leans on her so when her ex comes to town... It’s ridiculous and macho and flawed and stubborn. And that’s okay for the character. It’s not out of character. And it’s not out of character for Buffy to accept his answer for the honest admission of love that it is.
It's not out of character, it's just one of a few hallmarks of a really unhealthy relationship that they two of them have going on.
Why am I crying at the Free bird Buffy montage?!
Thank you for all the work you put in to make these, I love them so much, always a highlight when a new episode comes out. Just wanted to show you some appreciation! ❤️
Yassssss TPN Daddy
Good review.
Decent first part to a two parter. It had a lot to live up to when you consider previous two parters throughout the show.
Almost in season 5 my favorite season and also season 2 of Angel another favorite season for that show as well
these vids are so well edited - kudos
Nearly done with season 4, soon on to my favourite season! Well done, as always, Ian!
The scene between Spike and Adam really brings out how great Spike is as a character, compared to Adam.
I love your Buffy reviews. I wish you could review Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Dollhouse - all at once. I know it's impossible but I hope you'll get there one day.
I will never stop being sad that Giles never guested on Angel if only so he could do karaoke at Lorne's bar. Maybe even do a duet.
I imagine your take on Restless will be quite long. My elder sister and I have been a Buffy fan for at least 18 years, and if I can talk about Restless for around 45 minutes, I can't imagine what you'll say on it.
Almost every scene in that episode has some deep meaning
And this just highlights my issues with Xander throughout the series. He is either oblivious or intentionally awful.
@@EmoBearRights oh I'm intrigued. What do you mean by his ego ideal? Is that a Freudian term? I can totally see something in that...
I've been watching btvs for the first time and I got to this episode and was very confused because the previously on BTVS showed a scene with Buffy Angel and Faith that I definitely didn't see! after a bunch of research I realised it was a scene from the spin off angel that began and the beginning of this season!!! Just thought to drop this incase others didn't know about the spin off and was confused! Gonna go watch Angel now
I JUST realized that Buffy without the cape as red riding hood reminds me of her outfit as Anne when she ran away from home. Even the braids are the same right?
Thank you for making these, you are gold.
Your channel is the only one with notifications on, love it!
Noooooo, my study break is supposed to be ending right now! Ehh, I can delay going back for another 11 minutes, I suppose . . .
I feel like Xander just sees himself in Riley. Xander is always slow on catching on in conversation. So I read this scene as Xander waiting for Riley to catch on to what Xander is saying even though he should already know. Besides how many times had Dawn spoiled something? Way more than Xander, I think. And he still gets all this hate. All these characters are flawed and make mistakes. Xander's mistake are the ones most closely based in reality. But in my opinion dont deserve anymore hate than any other.
The "well other characters are terrible sometimes to" doesn't exactly hold up too well. If I robbed a bank I'm not getting off the hook for it by saying "Well that other guy robbed a bank."
@@BadWolf739 my point isnt that all the characters make mistakes but rather why is he held more accountable than the others? is over sharing worse than mass murder? like angel, spike, or faith? worse than cheating on your partner like willow and oz on separate occasions? worse the putting others in danger like all the characters have? worse then buffy putting dating before slaying on numerous occassions? yet all those characters get a pass, why? shouldn't we hold xander to the same standards as everyone else? I think people hate him because they're not willing to see themselves un him.
@@samanthasalmon1682 The other characters get a pass for these things because they themselves hold themselves accountable or they face nasty consequences for their actions. Faith atoned for her sins by submitting to the police and voluntarily staying in jail despite having the power to break out. Each time Buffy prioritised her social life over her duty something bad happened to her. When Willow and Oz cheated on each other they admitted there mistakes and poured a massive amount of energy into making amends. Conversely every time Xander does one of these things he is never held accountable. He lies about Willow's plan to reensoul Angel because he wants the guy dead knowingly effecting Buffy's tactics and options in a battle to the death. How did he pay for that? A stern word five years later. And it's like that for almost the entire series. It takes till Season 6's Hell's Bells for one of his stupid decisions to have a consequence for him.
So yes while everyone makes mistakes the show doesn't hold the characters to the same standards with regards to those mistakes. Xander is held more accountable for his actions by the fanbase because he's held less accountable for them in his own universe. When Dawn makes a mistake and almost dies she gets chewed out by Buffy, he's held responsible for that mistake. When Xander makes a mistake it gets skipped over by everyone.
As for Angel and Spike they are somewhat exempt from accountability as long as they are soulless. They aren't capable of acting better than they do. Mistakes they make while ensoulled like Angel serving up a room full of lawyers to Drusilla and Darla should rightly be put on them. Not that that makes the action itself right but rather they are not morally responsible. There is a reason why there is a clear distinction between Angel and Angelus.
I actually think it would make sense if Xander joined the military. It would tie in the previous military references and if Xander secretly likes the idea of being a soldier that might explain why he held on to the memories from turning into his Halloween costume when no one else did.
I've been trying to think of ways season 4 could have been better and I think Xander joining the initiative would be the perfect thing to make us care about them.
I can see why it would appeal to him, normal human men fighting the monsters. And I can imagine Xander trying to tell Buffy she can stop being the slayer because he and the guys have it handled. She can just settle down and be his wife if she doesn't have to fight monsters 🙄
These teases to seeing red are so much fun.
Another fantastic review! Man, I can't WAIT for Restless
Ah, one of those episodes that was a double punch of "This is why I hate Xander" and "This is why I hate Riley", all wrapped up in a bow. Well...check that. It's PART of why I hate Xander. There are so many reasons that you can't fit them all into just one episode. Especially since he can't both be a judgey, self-righteous douchebag AND be able to fall for Spike's manipulation at the same time.
"Comic Book Annual". I like that categorization. I've often compared it to a British Christmas Special, though I have plenty family and friends that don't understand that concept either.
This is one of those episodes where Riley is at his most Riley. Pretty but empty and meaningless words that sound just romantic enough to distract from the fact that Riley is little more than a mass of insecurities, jealousies, and overt possessive neediness.
First time through the series this is easy to overlook or dismiss. But it becomes all the more apparent when you look at just about any show that has popped up on the WB and CW since Buffy ended. By itself Buffy and most of Whedon's work is great. But when you look at all the imitators and copy cats in pop culture who blindly followed the plots and trappings of his works without any respect or acknowledgement of the themes and subtext of the work you see that a few toxic and annoying trends have risen to the surface of most network melodramas these days.
One possible saving grace for this is that Riley is quite literally engaging in the same fatalistic "Bangel Speak" scenes from earlier seasons, and Buffy almost always responds with calm, mature, and level headed counter points. If it weren't for the show trying to convince us that Riley is a real character his scenes would be a perfect way for Buffy to grow as a person by acknowledging that he looks at her the same way she looked at Angel and how that mindset doomed the relationship from the start. But we never got that realization because Riley gobbled up too much damn screen time and didn't get killed off nearly fast enough.
On a related note, this is why I stopped watching Supergirl after Mon El ruined Season 2. Every episode that season had a tacked on scene near the beginning with Mon El acting like Parker, then they moved on with the actual plot, then each episode ended with him doing the same lost puppy dog eyes "I'm so in love with you that I can't be held accountable for my douchebaggery." shtick that Riley did here and in just about all his other scenes with Buffy. I could put up with this once for a great show that told an empowering story. I can't put up with it again for a lesser show that only feigned empowerment, and ignored all the themes and narratives crucial to telling an actually empowering story.
A fuckin' amazing episode!
And damn Anthony Head singing is always a win.
The last time I saw this episode, I didn't even listen to Skynnyrd. I've since corrected my ways and was blown away at this revelation.
I've been through many-a-rewatch, and yet the Yoko Factor always gave me anxiety for some reason so I've probably only seen it the one time, maybe two, at best. After watching this I gotta say I'll give it a shot.
I liked the argument between the scoobys with Giles little drunk inputs
I waited so long for this
Omg I never even made the connection between free bird and Giles leaving Buffy. But also him saying “ if you lead a child by the hand. They’ll never find their own footing” to Maggie Walsh in A new man.
Compared with the “Wish I could play the father and take you by the hand”
Yay! You have graced us with another fantastic video!
Huzzah! Another Buffy analysis! Thumbs up! (I'm an old fart, but I love these vids, and bought and read the $.99 Kindle book you recommended immediately upon finding your channel years back.)
loved the editing in this review