She didn't just lose a ship, that woman came back with seven years' worth of war crimes. One can only imagine that debriefing. She knew too much to do away with, but was too much a threat to keep a captain. Make her Admiral Warcrime, and she can be staggered at every turn.
I love SFDebris' "Psycho Janeway" and how his version explained her rapid promotion: she introduced a virus into Starfleet's systems so that whenever Picard was put in for promotion, it was redirected to Janeway instead. @@mallios13
@@judeboon2870 Isn't that a basic requirement for admirals to have violated the prime directive a minimum of 9 times before getting promoted? I mean Kirk got a promotion just because they couldn't figure out what to do with him and you can't convince me that any of the admirals in TNG and DS9 haven't committed litany war crimes, treaty violations, and coupes.
One of the great touches to Wrath of Khan is that Kirk and Khan never met in person. They spoke over the viewscreen and the communicator a couple of times, but most of it was them trying to outthink each other. It's similar toe Balance of Terror in that regard, and that's one of my favorite TOS episodes. Also there was no real connection between Shinzon and Picard. They were strangers with the same DNA.
Absolutely they met, in glorious Technicolor! Also, the implied connection between Shinzon and Picard was their shared tactical acumen, and limited lifespan as a result of Irumodic Syndrome. Of course, Shinzon didn't have the benefit of his own series, so he didn't get to live past it.
I'd sin the fact that NOT ONCE in the history of the ST:NG franchise a disgruntled crew member took a phaser shot at Riker when Picard yelled "Fire at will!" and claimed they were just following orders!
Shouldn’t we sin the fact that when we last saw Worf at the end of DS9 he was Federation Ambassador to Q’onos but in Nemesis he’s suddenly back on the Enterprise without even an explanation why he’s back?
@@mandeepakpanesar6581 because Ambassadors don't attend weddings as such unless it is a State event...like Royalty getting married. As he was someone who previously reported to Riker his star fleet uniform is appropriate, otherwise it messes with the protocol of seniority. Riker reported directly to Picard so Picard becomes the officiating agent. As Worf is only a guest at the wedding, he must step into a lesser row in terms of his relationship to Deanna and Will.
I remember someone had spliced together the fight scene between the prewarp society, with Picard's speech about the importance of the Prime Directive. This whole scene conflicts so much with Star trek ideas in general it is frustrating.
@@Mandrewlochner Idk, I was iffy about the first season and pretty bored through most of the last episode, but that was a pretty nice scene, and it was nice to be able to get a real goodbye to a beloved character.
Actually regarding the retroactive storyline where B-4 wasnt a thing until this movie, there is actually room to suggest this is possible. When Dr. Juliana Tainer tells Data about her past work with her ex husband Dr. Soong, she mentions that they made 3 protoytype androids before Lore. Or maybe three in total, including Lore and Data. This is the episode Inheritance in season 7.
@@wileysil3313 Maybe, but The Traveler explained he needed to use people for their transportation to get where he wanted...So either way there is a backstory there more interesting than the film.
Another sin-on-sin-on-sin: Riker goes down to deck 29, which is apparently beyond the bottom of the ship. He then follows the Viceroy down a kiddy slide, descending further below the ship to another entire deck. There, they fall onto a catwalk suspended over an apparently bottomless pit, which somehow exists several decks below the ventral hull. Is the Enterprise-E like that ship from "Future Tense" that is larger inside than it is outside?
4:43, When Geordi suggests that B4 is an android created before data, you sin it for retroactively inventing something that didn't happen. TNG S7 E10: Inheritance, Approximately 19:20 in, Juliana O'Donnell/Soong/Tainer mentions that there were prototypes before Lore, failed experiments, that suffered from an unstable positron matrix. B4 definitely fits this description, therefore, Geordi's line is not retroactively invented past.
@@originalcosmicgirlthe real problem is that there is such a things as a Starfleet dune buggy with a combustion engine and big fat tires. Stupid idea that looks stupid.
The Romulans were originally supposed to appear in one of the earlier Star Trek movies (I think it was Star Trek III), but some executive or somebody made them rewrite the movie to use Klingons instead. Prior to the movies, only the Romulans had cloaking devices. But since they changed this script but left in the cloaking device, after that the Klingons had them, too.
Yeah, TOS had a lot of flip flopping with aliens. If they weren't Federation, they all used the same stuff. I think Romulans used battlecruisers, and Klingons even used warbirds. So when TNG rolled around, Romulans just used giant warbirds, while the klingons had battlecruisers and birds-of-prey. Klingons were then said to have stolen Romulan cloaks as an in-joke.
@@mallios13 The Klingons also had Romulan ships. Like, the Romulans either sold them to the Klingons, or the Klingons stole and reverse engineered them. The B'rel Klingon Bird of Prey was originally supposed to be a Romulan ship, which is why it's coloured the way it is.
@@BNuts Before they became enemies they actually traded technology. Specifically cloaking tech was traded for ships, specifically D7 Cruisers during the Klingon/Romulan alliance
For those following the entire show, that's how Roddenberry scored the big bucks. He made Klingons a Savage Empire like Genghis Khan, Romulans were the Roman Empire, and Starfleet is seated by the President of the United States sending all of our troops into space. He picked the Klingons as our biggest bully of the entire Alpha and Beta Quadrants and the Klingon's favorite target has always been the Federation Flagship, USS Enterprise, unless they destroy easier targets like science vessels and satellite dishes.
I like Data. He reminds people to ask him what he thinks and not what he feels. He knows thoughts and feeling are different things, unlike most people on the internet.
"Unlike most people" was imo an emotional comment, because you don't have any proof to back that up and the definitions of "thoughts" and "feelings" are pretty well-known. But it just "feels" like most people don't know those are different because a lot of people are driven by their feelings/values/beliefs over logic.
No I don't have statistics but look at how many people ask what somebody feels about something in place of what they think and how many people volunteer what they feel, which they don't, over what they think.@@sarahberkner
Remove that sin for Admiral Janeway. There's no way there gonna risk another ship on her,. it took so long to get the last one back, she stays on the ground.
Yep. Captains that smack their ships Into stuff or otherwise get lost become desk jockeys. Maybe Starfleet was afraid of a sex discrimination lawsuit and promoted her to avoid the hassle. Maybe she was in charge of Tribble control or something.
@@drdarkeny the name Data is an acknowledgment of what he is, but the name B-4 suggests he was created with full knowledge that there would be one (or more) to come after him.
@@KasumiKenshirou - because everybody with the slightest knowledge of history or legends knows Romulus and Remus are the wolf-suckled twins who founded Rome. Romulans were so clearly based on the Roman empire that they even went around calling their leaders "proconsuls"-which was what you call the consul after his term was up and he was given a province to manage. While I'm sure the writers gave them that title because "consul good, proconsul better", it does lead to the amusing possibility that the Romulan Empire thinks of itself as the Regents to a far older Empire, maybe the Vulcans, when they were still warlike? Like I said, funny, to think of a Romulans, always waiting for the Falcons to come to their senses, and give up all this logic nonsense!
Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner got more control behind the scenes of the movies, so that is why the movies focus so much on them and their characters act like idiots. If Patrick Stewart wants to drive dune buggies and be an action hero then the writers have to work that crap in somehow. They focus more on what would be fun for them to do as an actor rather than what makes sense for their character or is best for the story.
10:47 That was my biggest gripe with this movie. We’re ready to meet the guy in charge of the Remans, the one pulling the strings behind whatever the sinister plot is, and then down the staircase comes… some random bald human. That Picard reacts to in a very personal way, but since the movie doesn’t tell us that was supposed to be Picard-but-younger (and since, thanks to Tapestry, we know Picard-but-younger looked very different), we play catch up with the emotional tone of the reveal scene. The movie wanted us to wonder, similar to Picard, who this Shinzon is (is he a transporter duplicate? a clone? from another timeline? merely the recipient of some genetic engineering to make him look like Picard). Instead, we don’t even find out that “random bald human” was really Picard-but-younger until after we already learn he’s a clone. Very poor construction. What we needed was the movie finding some excuse to show us Tom Hardy as a younger Picard so we’d know what we were looking at (maybe in the deleted scene where Picard and Data talk about the wedding and ceremonies in general). Or bringing back the actor from Tapestry. Or (had this movie come out after X-Men First Class) using James McAvoy instead.
I loved how they kept contriving reasons to get Worf on there. Is this the one where it's like, "Sir! I spoke with Commander Sisko ..." and they just fully cut him off?
This is the sort of thing that happens when an actor whose classic portrayal of a character is more cerebral decides he wants to play action hero with the same character. And wow, I never realized how many awful decisions Picard makes in this. It kinda makes his horrible decisions in his own show make more sense: The poor man's been losing his marbles for decades! How has he not been removed from command in favour of Riker, Data, or even Worf before this? Heck, I'd have given command of the _E_ to Geordi because he certainly understands how to use a Sovrereign-class powerhouse better than Picard _and_ Riker combined. And because he questioned the 'wisdom' of downloading Data's data to B4... but he still doesn't reject the idea? Damn, everyone caught the stupid in this, didn't they? No wonder _First Contact_ comes off as the better movie. A shame all this together means poor box office performance, such that we never see the _E_ again. She was a beautiful ship, and we hardly knew her.
Ive seen this movie more times then I can count, seen the Deleted scene with Wesley Crusher numerous times, never ONCE did I notice he was sitting AT THE FUCKING TABLE during Picard's speech.
Nemesis is the only old Star Trek movie I dislike. Yes, I honestly love Insurrection, and even Final Frontier and Motion Picture. But Nemesis completely disregards the whole thing about not firing while cloaked (at least in Undiscovered Country, it was merely a prototype and even then, Kirk found a way around it). The Scimitar was ridiculously overpowered.
It really, really was. Not only can fire while cloaked, not only has a "perfect" cloak to an insane degree, but also can 1v1 a planet? This thing was supposed to be able to end all life on Earth single-handedly. In a few minutes. And somehow Starfleet Intelligence didn't know about what must have been the largest military project the Romulans had ever attempted.
I thought that android was "Lore" for a moment. I had forgotten about B-4 . Also nice to see Janeway somehow survived being assimilated and promptly blown up.
that was a mistake. i dont know what the point was. we all know he would give his life if he had to, but it doesn't mean it should be part of a story. since they had no intention of making more movies that doesnt mean data had to die, that like saying the entire cast had to die just because its the last movie. it seems spiteful on brents part because he hated that data kept him for other roles and the fans would call him data adoringly in public.
@@franohmsford7548 No Insurrection is just terrible. It makes no sense that Starfleet is greenlighting the theft of another planet's natural resources when those natural resources are owned by the species living on the planet. AND that isn't how Starfleet works. They would STUDY that phenomenon to see how to replicate it. Deep Space Nine is subversive crap.
Insurrection has very good reviews, and it was an interesting moral dilemma and I actually like Picard and that lady (I forget the character's name but the actress is Donna Moore) as a couple. Scientifically though, it was a little ridiculous even for Star Trek.
18:08 - Yes, for the love of god yes. The viewscreen isn't a window, so why isn't your bridge behind multiple armor plates and one of those fancy force fields
@~10:50, Picard became more aggressive, or expressed more aggression, after getting stabbed in a bar fight when he was young. Maybe Shinzon's time in the mine was supposed to make him more aggressive too? I know I'm definitely grasping at straws here. Just a thought.
I saw this in the theater maybe a week after it came out and there were less than 20 of us watching. It was clear at the time that the Star Trek franchise was not doing great, especially with Enterprise struggling in rates. Skip ahead 20 years and Nemesis is still flawed, but I've grown to appreciate Enterprise. I genuinely feel Star Trek is meant for the small screen.
Funny enough about your 'Picard in a buggy Mad Max style' sin - I believe you actually show a picture from the very episode that suggest he would. I believe that picture of pre-Bane Picard is from the episode 'Tapestry' in season 6 - in which the pre-Q events and all hint that young Picard is very much different, or rather doesn't mask how he is in things like risk taking and all, and later on points out that he could not live a 'safe' life and that getting stabbed in the heart set him on a path that was more about taking risks and making a mark on the universe, and that life is fragile and enjoy it. Which I'm fairly certain some elements have come across in the movies as well of that fact. So taht very much could be something that because he wouldn't likely get to do it often if at all - that he'd wanna do.
I’m a 59yr old curmudgeon and, I admit, a bit of a Trekkie. Also, I’m not ashamed to admit that, apart from Heather’s death in ‘Highlander’ (with Queen’s ‘Who Wants to Live Forever’), Data’s death was the only other time I wiped a tear from my eye. Fuckin’ love CinemaSins.
You mention Highlander over the death of Spock in Star Trek II? Way more emotional than Data's death in this movie. Even Shatner managed to put on his big boy acting boots for that one.
Wow, you managed to point out a few issues with the film that I missed, probably because I was too busy cringing whilst watching this one. Love Tom Hardy, and character actors in general, but his performance blows in this. It’s like he wanted to research the role and someone gave him a picture of Richard O’Brien instead Sir Patrick.
I think the idea was Riker kills the guy that mind raped his wife .. you know that thing you pretended to care about earlier when it was her choice and they did the Leah finds Luke thing but fcked up
I'm a pretty major, lifelong Trekkie, and have only seen Nemesis once. This reminded me of all the reasons why - especially the nauseating way they handled Troi's assault.
something you missed. during the fight Enterprise is able to read the scimitars shield strength while its cloaked. but they couldn't find it earlier cause the "cloak is perfect" as gerodi says.
Is it me or does Tom Hardy sound almost like Thrawn? I know that this came out way before Star Wars Rebels 7:23 but you can’t tell me it doesn’t sound like him
I was hoping the Janeway scene would get special attention. _"Let's see, Captain. You disregarded orders, broke the Prime Directive, colluded with the Borg, left your own offspring in a different quadrant..."_ "Here are your Admiral pips."
the Reman space suits remind me of iridescent Xenomorphs. makes them stand out. as a side note, they chose picard due to Tasha Yar being sent into the past and having her tell little Sela about her short endeavors with Picard as bedtime stories (presumably, and it's a solid fan theory).
Apparently Riker and the big Reman are three decks below the former lowest deck of the Enterprise. Then they slide down a chute to deck 30 I guess. After fightig, Riker throws the big Reman down even further?
18:08 -- Jeremy would be excellent at Andrew Probert sins. (Probert, who designed the Enterprise-D, wanted to move the bridge to a more sane, secure location deep in the bowels of the ship. Roddenberry overrode him, as the "tippy-top of the saucer section" placement makes for better storytelling and enables scenes like that one.)
10:43 Cinema Sins Sin 1 The Picard who was stabbed was a 20-something junior officer Lower Decker. The Shinzo-young Picard was a Starfleet Cadet. Around the age of Wesley.
I read the script before the movie's release. It was essentially the same but with so much more details which had apparently been skipped. Stuart Baird directed this one. He thought Geordi was an alien called Lavelle. I can't sleep tonight, thanks 😂😂😂
@@danielhausser8038 He never directed anything ever again hahaha. He still does editing though, which is where he came from. He only did two forgettable 90s action movies before this. I have absolutely no idea why they hired him. If you watch the behind the scenes he's incredibly condescending to the entire cast. There's a semi-famous clip of him tapping on the red device in the senate chamber with no patience shouting "THIS IS WHERE I WANT YOU TO LOOK!" And all the actors are looking at him with this "yeah, we get it" face. It's embarrassing.
11:40 I am not sure if she was relieved of duty wouldnt she still be hearing the mind rape? I mean it isn't like she can go out of range of the perpetrator. She is still on the ship.
Yeah, but at least she wouldn't have to deal with Ensign Redshirt's therapy sessions, where they have a recurring nightmare about being killed on an away mission and nobody caring.
Perhaps she can try to retreat to her quarters and concentrate on mental defenses, something which would require her total attention. Just throwing up ideas here.
7:57 Maybe the Klingon security officer knows a non-hostile knife draw when he sees one. Of course, if anyone can be that sure, then so can the android with the supercomputer brain.
The scene where Troi uses her abilities to locate the enemy ship, why does she need to move Worf's hand on the weapons controls instead of just use her own? That never made sense to me. Surprised it didn't get a mention in this video.
@@MichaelSuperbackerGreat catch!😂 this is the point where Jeremy says Michael superbacker would be the...??? Star Trekkiest at CinemaSins. Did my best
This is kind of the problem Movie TREK had - it wants to appeal to an audience that's bored by thoughtfulness and loves action, whether actions is called for or not. I'm not immune to loving action-I love WRATH OF KHAN, THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, and FIRST CONTACT, and I can even defend INSURRECTION. But there's no denying that STAR DREK: THE MOTIONLESS PICTURE, which thought we were more interested in beauty shots of the ENTERPRISE and bits with no relevance to the plot than with the story proper, convinced Paramount that with the movie series needed to be modestly-budgeted action/adventures pitched to the "Beer&Curry" mob than to TREK fandom.
"If they wanted to make sure they got a clone of someone that was perfectly okay with the destruction of entire species, they should've cloned Janeway". This is so 100% truuuu ICAN'T. My god Janeway was the worst captain ever
They didn't make the E and R in the title backwards "because it's cool". They did it to reflect the theme of the movie. (See what I did there? "Reflect" the theme? The letters are reflections of other letters. Shinzon is a reflection of... oh you get it!)
Besides making every single character act completely contrary to how they acted during the 7 freaking years of the TV show, they should have found a way for Sela to be involved in this, Shinzon and the Remans gaining power should have been accomplished partially due to a brewing civil war on Romulus between the imperials and those who want to re-establish relations with their Vulcan cousins, and as the last movie in the TNG/DS9/Voy era, there should have been a large space battle with dozens of ships, including multiples of all the "hero ships" some Klingon ships, and Romulan ships fighting on both sides.
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The moment Janeway got back, they immediately promoted her so she wouldn't lose another ship. She had to build her own ship and then she lost that!
She didn't just lose a ship, that woman came back with seven years' worth of war crimes. One can only imagine that debriefing. She knew too much to do away with, but was too much a threat to keep a captain. Make her Admiral Warcrime, and she can be staggered at every turn.
I love SFDebris' "Psycho Janeway" and how his version explained her rapid promotion: she introduced a virus into Starfleet's systems so that whenever Picard was put in for promotion, it was redirected to Janeway instead. @@mallios13
@mallios13 exactly. She violated the prime directive so many times that they put here where she couldn't do any more harm.
@@judeboon2870 Isn't that a basic requirement for admirals to have violated the prime directive a minimum of 9 times before getting promoted? I mean Kirk got a promotion just because they couldn't figure out what to do with him and you can't convince me that any of the admirals in TNG and DS9 haven't committed litany war crimes, treaty violations, and coupes.
One of the great touches to Wrath of Khan is that Kirk and Khan never met in person. They spoke over the viewscreen and the communicator a couple of times, but most of it was them trying to outthink each other. It's similar toe Balance of Terror in that regard, and that's one of my favorite TOS episodes.
Also there was no real connection between Shinzon and Picard. They were strangers with the same DNA.
Better than the fist fight when they first met.
They did meet in person. The movie is a sequel to one of the original series episodes and they talked face to face a great deal in that episode.
Neeerrrddd!!!!!
Yep.
Absolutely they met, in glorious Technicolor!
Also, the implied connection between Shinzon and Picard was their shared tactical acumen, and limited lifespan as a result of Irumodic Syndrome. Of course, Shinzon didn't have the benefit of his own series, so he didn't get to live past it.
I'd sin the fact that NOT ONCE in the history of the ST:NG franchise a disgruntled crew member took a phaser shot at Riker when Picard yelled "Fire at will!" and claimed they were just following orders!
Shouldn’t we sin the fact that when we last saw Worf at the end of DS9 he was Federation Ambassador to Q’onos but in Nemesis he’s suddenly back on the Enterprise without even an explanation why he’s back?
They were all going to the wedding.
@@crystalward1444 true but why is he back as a Starfleet Lt Cmdr and not dressed as a dignitary as he should be an ambassador?
@@mandeepakpanesar6581 because Ambassadors don't attend weddings as such unless it is a State event...like Royalty getting married. As he was someone who previously reported to Riker his star fleet uniform is appropriate, otherwise it messes with the protocol of seniority. Riker reported directly to Picard so Picard becomes the officiating agent. As Worf is only a guest at the wedding, he must step into a lesser row in terms of his relationship to Deanna and Will.
@@crystalward1444The wedding Worf was very reluctant to attend?
Well, you sure know your starfleet regulations.
I remember someone had spliced together the fight scene between the prewarp society, with Picard's speech about the importance of the Prime Directive. This whole scene conflicts so much with Star trek ideas in general it is frustrating.
All to make Picard into an action hero, when he's the diplomatic captain. It was about 30 years too late to make him into another Kirk.
"this movie kills Data" *that deserved a thousand sins*
Nah. I'm glad he was offed. He should have never returned in that terrible Picard show
@@Mandrewlochner Idk, I was iffy about the first season and pretty bored through most of the last episode, but that was a pretty nice scene, and it was nice to be able to get a real goodbye to a beloved character.
Actually regarding the retroactive storyline where B-4 wasnt a thing until this movie, there is actually room to suggest this is possible. When Dr. Juliana Tainer tells Data about her past work with her ex husband Dr. Soong, she mentions that they made 3 protoytype androids before Lore. Or maybe three in total, including Lore and Data. This is the episode Inheritance in season 7.
It's been awhile, but I could swear in Datalore, they found more spare parts than just Lore's.
NEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRDDDDDDD!!!!!!
I watched that episode quite recently, it may have been so but then again she says that they failed because soon couldn't create a stable matrix
Wouldn't one of the Sins be that it's never explained how Wesley was invited to the wedding if he was off exploring with "The Traveler" ?
he could like, wish, himself back, duh! he probably mastered the force by then or whatever ominous power the traveler said he possessed.
I believe there was a deleted scene of Wesley at the wedding
@@wileysil3313 Maybe, but The Traveler explained he needed to use people for their transportation to get where he wanted...So either way there is a backstory there more interesting than the film.
He hitched a ride on a passing TARDIS?
Bet you never knew Wesley Crusher was one of The Doctor's Companions!
He got to the E the same way Worf did
Another sin-on-sin-on-sin: Riker goes down to deck 29, which is apparently beyond the bottom of the ship. He then follows the Viceroy down a kiddy slide, descending further below the ship to another entire deck. There, they fall onto a catwalk suspended over an apparently bottomless pit, which somehow exists several decks below the ventral hull.
Is the Enterprise-E like that ship from "Future Tense" that is larger inside than it is outside?
Came to the comments to say this!
I like that you went with "Future Tense" some obscure piece of media over the classic Sci-fi "It's bigger on the inside" ship the TARDIS
Even as someone who wasn't a nerd for deck counting, I'd noticed the absurdity of deck numbers here as a kid.
Thank god it's not just me 😂
I'm just glad he didn't have to run through the gauntlet of crushing cylinders.
4:43, When Geordi suggests that B4 is an android created before data, you sin it for retroactively inventing something that didn't happen.
TNG S7 E10: Inheritance, Approximately 19:20 in, Juliana O'Donnell/Soong/Tainer mentions that there were prototypes before Lore, failed experiments, that suffered from an unstable positron matrix.
B4 definitely fits this description, therefore, Geordi's line is not retroactively invented past.
A "Mirror Universe" movie with an evil Picard sporting the requisite goatee would have been MUCH better than this movie!
Greatest sin in Star Trek canon:
Jean Luc Picard driving a dune buggy. A dune buggy…
Idk, a lot of people have interests that don't fit their personalities. Let the man have his guilty pleasure.
@@originalcosmicgirlthe real problem is that there is such a things as a Starfleet dune buggy with a combustion engine and big fat tires. Stupid idea that looks stupid.
@@nel1962 Yeah, it didn't even look futuristic. 😞
He's ridden a horse.
We better get at LEAST +1000 sins for killing Data
20000 sins
The same you get for this SPOILER!
@IlRestoDelCarlone this movie is ancient. If you haven't seen it by now, that's on you
We do not.
@@IlRestoDelCarlone this was already spoiled in the Star Trek Insurrection sins video
The Romulans were originally supposed to appear in one of the earlier Star Trek movies (I think it was Star Trek III), but some executive or somebody made them rewrite the movie to use Klingons instead. Prior to the movies, only the Romulans had cloaking devices. But since they changed this script but left in the cloaking device, after that the Klingons had them, too.
Yeah, TOS had a lot of flip flopping with aliens. If they weren't Federation, they all used the same stuff. I think Romulans used battlecruisers, and Klingons even used warbirds. So when TNG rolled around, Romulans just used giant warbirds, while the klingons had battlecruisers and birds-of-prey. Klingons were then said to have stolen Romulan cloaks as an in-joke.
@@mallios13 The Klingons also had Romulan ships. Like, the Romulans either sold them to the Klingons, or the Klingons stole and reverse engineered them. The B'rel Klingon Bird of Prey was originally supposed to be a Romulan ship, which is why it's coloured the way it is.
One correction, the first Klingon use of a cloaking device was in TAS.
@@BNuts Before they became enemies they actually traded technology. Specifically cloaking tech was traded for ships, specifically D7 Cruisers during the Klingon/Romulan alliance
For those following the entire show, that's how Roddenberry scored the big bucks. He made Klingons a Savage Empire like Genghis Khan, Romulans were the Roman Empire, and Starfleet is seated by the President of the United States sending all of our troops into space. He picked the Klingons as our biggest bully of the entire Alpha and Beta Quadrants and the Klingon's favorite target has always been the Federation Flagship, USS Enterprise, unless they destroy easier targets like science vessels and satellite dishes.
Data jumping from one ship to another was one of the most badass things in Trek history
And surprised there was no Leia reference in the end bits
Didn't Michel Burnham. Do something similar
And Kirk and Spock in star trek 8nto darkness
IKR?
@@OneMarsyBoistupid nemesis for reusing into darkness material...
Data fans saluted his sacrifice in the auditorium. Now we know from Picard he, alongside B4 was a replication via his villain creator.
And with that, my Star Trek CinemaSins collection is complete! 🖖😎👍
Ejecting the warp core was the highlight of Shax's life.
Can he? Please? He's been very good this year!
I like Data. He reminds people to ask him what he thinks and not what he feels. He knows thoughts and feeling are different things, unlike most people on the internet.
"Unlike most people" was imo an emotional comment, because you don't have any proof to back that up and the definitions of "thoughts" and "feelings" are pretty well-known. But it just "feels" like most people don't know those are different because a lot of people are driven by their feelings/values/beliefs over logic.
No I don't have statistics but look at how many people ask what somebody feels about something in place of what they think and how many people volunteer what they feel, which they don't, over what they think.@@sarahberkner
YES! overdubbing shinzon's intro with Bane's speech about darkness, I've been thinking of that since i found out they were the same actor.
Remove that sin for Admiral Janeway. There's no way there gonna risk another ship on her,. it took so long to get the last one back, she stays on the ground.
Yep. Captains that smack their ships Into stuff or otherwise get lost become desk jockeys. Maybe Starfleet was afraid of a sex discrimination lawsuit and promoted her to avoid the hassle. Maybe she was in charge of Tribble control or something.
@@franciscodanconia4324Naw, she brought back 7/Hansen. The Alpha Quadrant is better off for it.
Ahem...better go watch Prodigy. 🤣
@@Crazy_Borg IS _that_ why it got canceled? lol
Yeah she'll do less damage sitting behind a desk
Gotta love the range of this channel. They literally discuss every single genre
As long as its a popular movie or part of a popular franchise.
@@WhoCares-i3o yeah,but gotta respect it!
If you told me that Shinzon was played by James McAvoy, I would 100% have believed you. Glad that Jeremy made that joke too.
I think that was also a play on X-Men where McAvoy plays a younger Patrick Stuart character in that both are Charles Xavier.
16:04 “He tasks me” isn’t Shakespeare. It’s from Melville’s Moby Dick. Ahab says it to explain his obsession with revenge on the white whale. *ding*
15:34 In the TNG 6th season episode "Timescape" Data tells the computer to erect a force field around the warp core.
So…we’re not gonna discuss the heavy handed name “B-4?”
Why, since they got away with a robot called "Data" for seven years and three movies!
@@drdarkeny the name Data is an acknowledgment of what he is, but the name B-4 suggests he was created with full knowledge that there would be one (or more) to come after him.
His original name was "B-9", so it was actually worse.
Why did aliens named their twin planets, Romulus and Remus, after twins from EARTH'S Roman mythology?!
@@KasumiKenshirou - because everybody with the slightest knowledge of history or legends knows Romulus and Remus are the wolf-suckled twins who founded Rome.
Romulans were so clearly based on the Roman empire that they even went around calling their leaders "proconsuls"-which was what you call the consul after his term was up and he was given a province to manage. While I'm sure the writers gave them that title because "consul good, proconsul better", it does lead to the amusing possibility that the Romulan Empire thinks of itself as the Regents to a far older Empire, maybe the Vulcans, when they were still warlike?
Like I said, funny, to think of a Romulans, always waiting for the Falcons to come to their senses, and give up all this logic nonsense!
This is the most I've seen of this movie since 2002.
Data #1: "Prepare for trouble!"
Data #2: "And make it double!"
Spot: "Meowth, dat's right!"
@@JonathanEzor and at the end they blasted off again!
They did protect a world from devastation.
When Cinema Sins mentions that movie Picard and tv Picard are not the same character. YES YES thank you! I've been saying that for years!
Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner got more control behind the scenes of the movies, so that is why the movies focus so much on them and their characters act like idiots. If Patrick Stewart wants to drive dune buggies and be an action hero then the writers have to work that crap in somehow. They focus more on what would be fun for them to do as an actor rather than what makes sense for their character or is best for the story.
10:47 That was my biggest gripe with this movie. We’re ready to meet the guy in charge of the Remans, the one pulling the strings behind whatever the sinister plot is, and then down the staircase comes… some random bald human. That Picard reacts to in a very personal way, but since the movie doesn’t tell us that was supposed to be Picard-but-younger (and since, thanks to Tapestry, we know Picard-but-younger looked very different), we play catch up with the emotional tone of the reveal scene. The movie wanted us to wonder, similar to Picard, who this Shinzon is (is he a transporter duplicate? a clone? from another timeline? merely the recipient of some genetic engineering to make him look like Picard). Instead, we don’t even find out that “random bald human” was really Picard-but-younger until after we already learn he’s a clone.
Very poor construction. What we needed was the movie finding some excuse to show us Tom Hardy as a younger Picard so we’d know what we were looking at (maybe in the deleted scene where Picard and Data talk about the wedding and ceremonies in general). Or bringing back the actor from Tapestry. Or (had this movie come out after X-Men First Class) using James McAvoy instead.
Picard: Fire at will!
Worf: (pulls phaser, vaporizes Riker) Wait, did you mean… oops.
127 sins? That's it? You are very generous today, my friend.
Should have took a sin off for complimenting Worf on his "Very Astute" comment about the robotic arm!!!
I loved how they kept contriving reasons to get Worf on there. Is this the one where it's like, "Sir! I spoke with Commander Sisko ..." and they just fully cut him off?
That was Insurrection.
This is the sort of thing that happens when an actor whose classic portrayal of a character is more cerebral decides he wants to play action hero with the same character. And wow, I never realized how many awful decisions Picard makes in this. It kinda makes his horrible decisions in his own show make more sense: The poor man's been losing his marbles for decades! How has he not been removed from command in favour of Riker, Data, or even Worf before this? Heck, I'd have given command of the _E_ to Geordi because he certainly understands how to use a Sovrereign-class powerhouse better than Picard _and_ Riker combined. And because he questioned the 'wisdom' of downloading Data's data to B4... but he still doesn't reject the idea? Damn, everyone caught the stupid in this, didn't they? No wonder _First Contact_ comes off as the better movie. A shame all this together means poor box office performance, such that we never see the _E_ again. She was a beautiful ship, and we hardly knew her.
Picard clone, I think I'm a clone now. There's always two of me just hanging around.
I think I'm a clone now because every chromosome is a hand-me-down
Ive seen this movie more times then I can count, seen the Deleted scene with Wesley Crusher numerous times, never ONCE did I notice he was sitting AT THE FUCKING TABLE during Picard's speech.
It’s definitely a “pan and scan” needs the letterbox directors cut Moment. These kind folks did me PROUD in having Wesley present for this sin count
9:57 to be fair, Nemesis came before TDKR, so Bane was a recycle of Shinzon.
"Fire at will"
Riker: "F@@@ you."
You forgot to mention the bottomless pit on deck 29! That's worth a least 5 sins!!
Picard got stabbed in the heart leading to all of his hair falling out.
0:42 Me and a buddy actually laughed out loud in the theatre when we saw those backward letters.
you didn't like Star Trek r Us?
@NeoTechni If such a thing existed, we'd have probably laughed at that too. 🙃
You missed a chance to goof on Khan by saying "Aadmirahl Janeway!"
Nemesis is the only old Star Trek movie I dislike. Yes, I honestly love Insurrection, and even Final Frontier and Motion Picture. But Nemesis completely disregards the whole thing about not firing while cloaked (at least in Undiscovered Country, it was merely a prototype and even then, Kirk found a way around it). The Scimitar was ridiculously overpowered.
It really, really was. Not only can fire while cloaked, not only has a "perfect" cloak to an insane degree, but also can 1v1 a planet? This thing was supposed to be able to end all life on Earth single-handedly. In a few minutes. And somehow Starfleet Intelligence didn't know about what must have been the largest military project the Romulans had ever attempted.
@@reliantncc1864to be fair the bigger sin was half the Romulan command didn't know about it either from what I recall.
@@TheWPhilosopher You have a hell of a point there.
The text message bit should have a 1000 sins added "movie, show me you're from 2002 without telling me you're from 2002"
I thought that android was "Lore" for a moment. I had forgotten about B-4 .
Also nice to see Janeway somehow survived being assimilated and promptly blown up.
I will never get over data's death in this movie
that shit WRECKED me when I first watched and deserved a million sins
that was a mistake. i dont know what the point was. we all know he would give his life if he had to, but it doesn't mean it should be part of a story. since they had no intention of making more movies that doesnt mean data had to die, that like saying the entire cast had to die just because its the last movie. it seems spiteful on brents part because he hated that data kept him for other roles and the fans would call him data adoringly in public.
Nemesis is one gigantic sin! Except for the Enterprise E!!!!
"Having a backwards E because you think it looks cool. I assure you, it does not"
Dont let Eminem hear you say that.
I think his "music" establishes that he can't hear
@@NeoTechniLol, the man has made more than you and I ever will. Don't be bummed because some deaf guy makes better music than you.
This is the Last Star Trek Film for them to Sin on (for now)
it still boggles me how they could make something as awesome as first contact and then follow it up with insurrection and nemesis
You've memory-holed Star Trek V then.
P.S. Insurrection is the best TNG movie....It actually feels like TNG unlike First Contact.
@@franohmsford7548 No Insurrection is just terrible. It makes no sense that Starfleet is greenlighting the theft of another planet's natural resources when those natural resources are owned by the species living on the planet. AND that isn't how Starfleet works. They would STUDY that phenomenon to see how to replicate it. Deep Space Nine is subversive crap.
Insurrection was low stakes but it was fun.
Insurrection has very good reviews, and it was an interesting moral dilemma and I actually like Picard and that lady (I forget the character's name but the actress is Donna Moore) as a couple. Scientifically though, it was a little ridiculous even for Star Trek.
@@sarahberkner , her name is Anij, and the actress is Donna Murphy.
18:08 - Yes, for the love of god yes. The viewscreen isn't a window, so why isn't your bridge behind multiple armor plates and one of those fancy force fields
@~10:50, Picard became more aggressive, or expressed more aggression, after getting stabbed in a bar fight when he was young. Maybe Shinzon's time in the mine was supposed to make him more aggressive too?
I know I'm definitely grasping at straws here. Just a thought.
Wait a minute - they were going to replace 60ish-year-old Picard with 30ish-year-old Shinzon, and they thought no one would notice?
I saw this in the theater maybe a week after it came out and there were less than 20 of us watching. It was clear at the time that the Star Trek franchise was not doing great, especially with Enterprise struggling in rates.
Skip ahead 20 years and Nemesis is still flawed, but I've grown to appreciate Enterprise. I genuinely feel Star Trek is meant for the small screen.
One of the things a lot of people point out is in the TNG era SHUTTLES HAVE THEIR OWN TRANSPORTERS.
Funny enough about your 'Picard in a buggy Mad Max style' sin - I believe you actually show a picture from the very episode that suggest he would. I believe that picture of pre-Bane Picard is from the episode 'Tapestry' in season 6 - in which the pre-Q events and all hint that young Picard is very much different, or rather doesn't mask how he is in things like risk taking and all, and later on points out that he could not live a 'safe' life and that getting stabbed in the heart set him on a path that was more about taking risks and making a mark on the universe, and that life is fragile and enjoy it. Which I'm fairly certain some elements have come across in the movies as well of that fact. So taht very much could be something that because he wouldn't likely get to do it often if at all - that he'd wanna do.
I’m a 59yr old curmudgeon and, I admit, a bit of a Trekkie. Also, I’m not ashamed to admit that, apart from Heather’s death in ‘Highlander’ (with Queen’s ‘Who Wants to Live Forever’), Data’s death was the only other time I wiped a tear from my eye. Fuckin’ love CinemaSins.
You mention Highlander over the death of Spock in Star Trek II? Way more emotional than Data's death in this movie. Even Shatner managed to put on his big boy acting boots for that one.
@@reliantncc1864 I could be in denial, I guess. And, Billy-boy kinda lost his cred when he croaked in ‘Generations’.😉✌️
@@razzle1964 i think he didn't lose his cred before this: ruclips.net/video/MSGwTpQtyq4/видео.htmlsi=LJpHTwshw4KAXa2y
Star Trek 6 had Romulan Ambassador Nanclus as one of the co-conspirators behind the plot to kill the Klingon chancellor
YOU DID NOT DISRESPECT MY JANEWAY LIKE THAT! NUHUH!!
12:22 TBF i think there is plenty of precedent for thinking the Enterprise crew is exactly that dumb
Wow, you managed to point out a few issues with the film that I missed, probably because I was too busy cringing whilst watching this one.
Love Tom Hardy, and character actors in general, but his performance blows in this. It’s like he wanted to research the role and someone gave him a picture of Richard O’Brien instead Sir Patrick.
the ol' "you're the closest ship and there are no other experienced commanders" scam
I think the idea was Riker kills the guy that mind raped his wife .. you know that thing you pretended to care about earlier when it was her choice and they did the Leah finds Luke thing but fcked up
At 18:55, Picard says "Computer, standby autodestruct sequence...", and suddenly the Alexa on the counter starts counting down.
I'm a pretty major, lifelong Trekkie, and have only seen Nemesis once. This reminded me of all the reasons why - especially the nauseating way they handled Troi's assault.
Phasers can be set to explode, and Data knows that. His death and sacrifice were pointless.
something you missed. during the fight Enterprise is able to read the scimitars shield strength while its cloaked. but they couldn't find it earlier cause the "cloak is perfect" as gerodi says.
the cloak was gone at that point, it was just before they crashed 2gether
Is it me or does Tom Hardy sound almost like Thrawn? I know that this came out way before Star Wars Rebels 7:23 but you can’t tell me it doesn’t sound like him
Worf doesn't even flinch. Now THAT's comedy! Got a BIG belly laugh!
Kermit the Frog roasts a movie with an abundance of green?
I was hoping the Janeway scene would get special attention.
_"Let's see, Captain. You disregarded orders, broke the Prime Directive, colluded with the Borg, left your own offspring in a different quadrant..."_
"Here are your Admiral pips."
the Reman space suits remind me of iridescent Xenomorphs. makes them stand out.
as a side note, they chose picard due to Tasha Yar being sent into the past and having her tell little Sela about her short endeavors with Picard as bedtime stories (presumably, and it's a solid fan theory).
Apparently Riker and the big Reman are three decks below the former lowest deck of the Enterprise. Then they slide down a chute to deck 30 I guess. After fightig, Riker throws the big Reman down even further?
18:08 -- Jeremy would be excellent at Andrew Probert sins. (Probert, who designed the Enterprise-D, wanted to move the bridge to a more sane, secure location deep in the bowels of the ship. Roddenberry overrode him, as the "tippy-top of the saucer section" placement makes for better storytelling and enables scenes like that one.)
10:43 Cinema Sins Sin 1
The Picard who was stabbed was a 20-something junior officer Lower Decker.
The Shinzo-young Picard was a Starfleet Cadet. Around the age of Wesley.
bro I’m so so happy you put out another Star Trek vid finally 💙💙
I love star trek but just 4 mins into this video I'm rolling an laughing my motherfucken ass off, the buggy into the ship "NOPE" 😄😆😂🤣
I read the script before the movie's release. It was essentially the same but with so much more details which had apparently been skipped. Stuart Baird directed this one. He thought Geordi was an alien called Lavelle. I can't sleep tonight, thanks 😂😂😂
And he had a long and illustrious directorial career after this. Right?.........
@@RettMikhal Not so much, did he?
@@danielhausser8038 He never directed anything ever again hahaha. He still does editing though, which is where he came from. He only did two forgettable 90s action movies before this. I have absolutely no idea why they hired him. If you watch the behind the scenes he's incredibly condescending to the entire cast. There's a semi-famous clip of him tapping on the red device in the senate chamber with no patience shouting "THIS IS WHERE I WANT YOU TO LOOK!" And all the actors are looking at him with this "yeah, we get it" face. It's embarrassing.
Worf never catches a break.
except in Ethics
Firefly/Serenity references are always welcome. Wash especially.
I am a leaf on the wind.
My Sinful Nerd Wet Dreams have been fulfilled.
What a missed opportunity to call one of them "Data" and the other one "Data".
But one is his name. The other is not.
@@reliantncc1864hahaha, just came to say "they'd have to rehire Pulaski"
This is definitely one of your funnier Sin videos. Thank you for that!
11:40 I am not sure if she was relieved of duty wouldnt she still be hearing the mind rape? I mean it isn't like she can go out of range of the perpetrator. She is still on the ship.
Yeah, but at least she wouldn't have to deal with Ensign Redshirt's therapy sessions, where they have a recurring nightmare about being killed on an away mission and nobody caring.
@@antney7745 NOW THAT is funny!!! 🤣
Perhaps she can try to retreat to her quarters and concentrate on mental defenses, something which would require her total attention. Just throwing up ideas here.
Only part I remember:
*data* : “it appears to be a robotic arm”
*worf* : “how very astute”
Star Trek III was supposed to be Romulans, which is why there's a Bird of Prey. They changed it to the more popular Klingons but kept the ship.
I've been waiting for what seems like a 5 year mission, for this one
10:48
😂
DEADPOOL :
" these different timelines
are so confusing "
7:57 Maybe the Klingon security officer knows a non-hostile knife draw when he sees one. Of course, if anyone can be that sure, then so can the android with the supercomputer brain.
Hm, don't know. Worf surely has better instincts on combat behavior than the android with an apparent inability to understand humor.
I couldn't breathe after the "take a hammer to the warp core" Line.... holy crap
Is it just me, or is the best part of these the edited clips at the end?
The scene where Troi uses her abilities to locate the enemy ship, why does she need to move Worf's hand on the weapons controls instead of just use her own? That never made sense to me. Surprised it didn't get a mention in this video.
emotional support pet
Ouji board
It's a lesser sin. They had to make Troi useful somehow, right?
Agreed, but that was fine 👍
The weapon controls are attuned to Worf's fingerprints.
17:56 Riker also runs in front of Worf, who's currently firing his weapon!
Yay more Star Trek!
This was released 27 seconds ago??? 🤔
@@MichaelSuperbackerGreat catch!😂 this is the point where Jeremy says Michael superbacker would be the...??? Star Trekkiest at CinemaSins. Did my best
@@MichaelSuperbacker magic!
You missed The Hunt for Red moment. 😂 You missed the Caterpillar Drive. NOOOOOOOOO😊
This is kind of the problem Movie TREK had - it wants to appeal to an audience that's bored by thoughtfulness and loves action, whether actions is called for or not. I'm not immune to loving action-I love WRATH OF KHAN, THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, and FIRST CONTACT, and I can even defend INSURRECTION.
But there's no denying that STAR DREK: THE MOTIONLESS PICTURE, which thought we were more interested in beauty shots of the ENTERPRISE and bits with no relevance to the plot than with the story proper, convinced Paramount that with the movie series needed to be modestly-budgeted action/adventures pitched to the "Beer&Curry" mob than to TREK fandom.
"If they wanted to make sure they got a clone of someone that was perfectly okay with the destruction of entire species, they should've cloned Janeway". This is so 100% truuuu ICAN'T. My god Janeway was the worst captain ever
The Argo was not needed because they had an aircraft that could land and take off at any location.
They didn't make the E and R in the title backwards "because it's cool". They did it to reflect the theme of the movie. (See what I did there? "Reflect" the theme? The letters are reflections of other letters. Shinzon is a reflection of... oh you get it!)
Besides making every single character act completely contrary to how they acted during the 7 freaking years of the TV show, they should have found a way for Sela to be involved in this, Shinzon and the Remans gaining power should have been accomplished partially due to a brewing civil war on Romulus between the imperials and those who want to re-establish relations with their Vulcan cousins, and as the last movie in the TNG/DS9/Voy era, there should have been a large space battle with dozens of ships, including multiples of all the "hero ships" some Klingon ships, and Romulan ships fighting on both sides.
Excellent use of the colorful metaphors ref from voyage home. 🖖