I dabbled with this concept. you still need refs. cameras cant see everything. its a lot better for the viewer to see however. they do something like a boxing match at Swordfish, where its accumulated points over timed rounds with no stopping until a grapple and disarm is made or the round ends.
The question is what the "idea" behind the fight is. Often in HEMA it is assumed that a single hit can be fatal, so a competition match actually simulates not one but multiple fights in order to determine the better of two fighters. However, this means that the fight must be stopped after each hit.
It is classic Martial Arts isn’t it? otherwise why not connect them to a electric system like Olympic fencing. Which lost al the Martial elements and is boring to watch
@@thelonerider9693 Nah, your question is valid! The buckler is used to cover the sword-hand, because it is the most likely target. However, it doesn't need to be close to the hand to cover the opponent's line of attack. The buckler is an active part of both offense and defense, so the fencer has to have a plan of how to most efficiently use them together.
@@igneous061 Achille Marozzo states that when you are out of range of your opponent (and therefore he is out of yours) than you may lower your buckler to regain your strength. As soon as one of you enters range, you raise it again. They aren't too heavy, but they usually weigh a little more than the sword and it gets tiring after a while holding it straight out like that.
I like how one guy has his sword side leg forward and the other has his shield side leg forward, like which they want to primarily use. Do they do different styles?
@@sickpsycho2012 What I meant was "do they do different sword and buckler styles?" Like one is I.33 and the other Bolognese, etc.? I can fight both ways to, had to learn in Karate. I love integrating all the footwork together to, not being limited to passing footwork with lunge and recover or the more squared up stance from Japanese swordsmanship. More options = better. When I learned to box years before Karate, I actually started off a South Paul even tho I'm right handed lolz. Last time I ran 1 handed pistol shooting drills on the move in training, I actually was more accurate (tho a bit slower) with only my left (off) hand, than with only my right (dominant) hand. In foil fencing, I never had trouble with left handers. The swords are where they are, the person is where they are, strike and party accordingly, I never saw what the big deal is. Funny story, one time I couldn't beat a classmate on a particular day (one of his best), because his speed was incredible (in general, but I swear he drank a damn magic potion that day!). But he always said how much he hated lefties. So, I switched hands in the middle of our match - and stabbed the crap outa him! And I'm significantly worse with a sword in my left hand lolz, but for whatever reason he was even worse at dealing with a mirror image roflmao. Victory, however I can get it! Anyways, I'm not super familiar with sword and buckler (having only studied it in general, and I.33 a couple of times), so I was asking if maybe one sword and buckler style had the feet the other way around? I studied I.33, and tho there's times when the feet swith (usually with the garde/ward/posta), the sword side foot is usually forward (in half shield). Which is why I was wondering if Bolognese or other styles do it the other way, or if what we see here is simply personal preference, or if it was a tactic done by one fencer to counter the other? Etc.
I have been fighting different forms of combat for years. From hand to hand, to fencing, to armored combat. Unfortunately I haven't actually studied any of the fencing schools until recently (last couple weeks) and I have just barely looked into i.33.
I think we need a new scoring system here. 3 points for winning an exchange clearly and potentially zero points for winning a questionable exchange (to the judges, when u really won untouched) - even maybe losing points - is unfair. it is entirely up to the judges. We need a video review system to settle these conclusively.
I think the system definitely needs some love, bu wouldn't it be better to make the system more viewing-friendly and interesting, rather than adding a lot of dead time, using costly cameras?
I am a layman but I hardly found anything resembling historical sword and buckler fencing - except for the buckler. Both participants either fence on such a high level that technique becomes less of a factor or its just who can hit faster. The historical material is relatively clear in its intention. Thus is a martial art used to protect yourself, while killing the enemy. The "problem" with sport is that you victory is based on points and not the amount of blood and limbs lost. That's why you can be reckless and hacvle to be fast. The only way to make points, is to land hits and not to survive. Let's be real. Both fighters would be dead in most of their encounters. But those are the rules.
Ser utrolig moro ut. Bare så ille denne typen sport er relativt ukjent her til lands og mangelen på klubber deretter. (Starter man for seg selv ut av intet er det trolig lett å tillegge seg mange feil).
Det beste er å kontakte oss og komme på noen nybegynnerkurs for å så starte noe eget med venner i sitt nærområde hvis en bor langt unna Oslo/Bergen/Tromsø. PS: Det er utrolig gøy!
Cooler for the spectators maybe But not for the competitors. I took a hit to the back of the mask from a sword once it was not fun :) Well okay it was fun as it was swords, but I should have preferred to be hit somewhere else lol.
I love how the right-hand judge looks up at his flag after hearing "3 points - Red", just to make sure he'd raised the correct flag.
why use 4 judges when an overhead camera can be 100% precise. just let them fight a whole set and afterwards do the evaluation. that should be fair.
I fully agree, this looks so weak...
I dabbled with this concept. you still need refs. cameras cant see everything. its a lot better for the viewer to see however.
they do something like a boxing match at Swordfish, where its accumulated points over timed rounds with no stopping until a grapple and disarm is made or the round ends.
The question is what the "idea" behind the fight is. Often in HEMA it is assumed that a single hit can be fatal, so a competition match actually simulates not one but multiple fights in order to determine the better of two fighters. However, this means that the fight must be stopped after each hit.
It is classic Martial Arts isn’t it? otherwise why not connect them to a electric system like Olympic fencing. Which lost al the Martial elements and is boring to watch
@@keesjanhoeksema9575 it's cause you have to defend yourself. You cannot do suicide technics like olympic fencers. It's more like real duel.
Question... I thought the buckler was meant to cover the sword hand as you moved? Or is that just early style of buckler...?
Not always. I.33 has one stance that puts the buckler over the hand but many others where it isn't.
@@sickpsycho2012 My bad. I am a newb at swords so I was only familiar with the one style. (sorry for the tardy reply)
@@thelonerider9693 Nah, your question is valid! The buckler is used to cover the sword-hand, because it is the most likely target. However, it doesn't need to be close to the hand to cover the opponent's line of attack. The buckler is an active part of both offense and defense, so the fencer has to have a plan of how to most efficiently use them together.
@@Cleanpea Thank you! I've never actually fenced w/ sword and buckler so I was not sure. It sure looks fun tho!
@@thelonerider9693 Just do it :)
Which system are they fighting does anyone know?
scusate ma mi sembra che di schermistico ci sia solo la scelta del tempo, manca tutto il resto. Solo una mia opinione naturalmente.
Wait a minute! That doesn't look a at like Roland's sword and Buckler sparring... :-)
yep, far from it....and blue guy is hardly keeping his buckler infront of him....
@@igneous061 Achille Marozzo states that when you are out of range of your opponent (and therefore he is out of yours) than you may lower your buckler to regain your strength. As soon as one of you enters range, you raise it again. They aren't too heavy, but they usually weigh a little more than the sword and it gets tiring after a while holding it straight out like that.
I like how one guy has his sword side leg forward and the other has his shield side leg forward, like which they want to primarily use. Do they do different styles?
Yes. Some people fight either way and some (like me) can fight both ways.
@@sickpsycho2012 What I meant was "do they do different sword and buckler styles?" Like one is I.33 and the other Bolognese, etc.?
I can fight both ways to, had to learn in Karate. I love integrating all the footwork together to, not being limited to passing footwork with lunge and recover or the more squared up stance from Japanese swordsmanship. More options = better. When I learned to box years before Karate, I actually started off a South Paul even tho I'm right handed lolz. Last time I ran 1 handed pistol shooting drills on the move in training, I actually was more accurate (tho a bit slower) with only my left (off) hand, than with only my right (dominant) hand. In foil fencing, I never had trouble with left handers. The swords are where they are, the person is where they are, strike and party accordingly, I never saw what the big deal is. Funny story, one time I couldn't beat a classmate on a particular day (one of his best), because his speed was incredible (in general, but I swear he drank a damn magic potion that day!). But he always said how much he hated lefties. So, I switched hands in the middle of our match - and stabbed the crap outa him! And I'm significantly worse with a sword in my left hand lolz, but for whatever reason he was even worse at dealing with a mirror image roflmao. Victory, however I can get it!
Anyways, I'm not super familiar with sword and buckler (having only studied it in general, and I.33 a couple of times), so I was asking if maybe one sword and buckler style had the feet the other way around? I studied I.33, and tho there's times when the feet swith (usually with the garde/ward/posta), the sword side foot is usually forward (in half shield). Which is why I was wondering if Bolognese or other styles do it the other way, or if what we see here is simply personal preference, or if it was a tactic done by one fencer to counter the other? Etc.
I have been fighting different forms of combat for years. From hand to hand, to fencing, to armored combat. Unfortunately I haven't actually studied any of the fencing schools until recently (last couple weeks) and I have just barely looked into i.33.
I think we need a new scoring system here.
3 points for winning an exchange clearly and potentially zero points for winning a questionable exchange (to the judges, when u really won untouched) - even maybe losing points - is unfair.
it is entirely up to the judges.
We need a video review system to settle these conclusively.
I think the system definitely needs some love, bu wouldn't it be better to make the system more viewing-friendly and interesting, rather than adding a lot of dead time, using costly cameras?
I love how blue pulls his buckler back when thrusting... Looks like a couple of kids playing swords.
They are not following any genuine matrial art master... too bad... both us and them are missing a bunch
I am a layman but I hardly found anything resembling historical sword and buckler fencing - except for the buckler.
Both participants either fence on such a high level that technique becomes less of a factor or its just who can hit faster.
The historical material is relatively clear in its intention. Thus is a martial art used to protect yourself, while killing the enemy.
The "problem" with sport is that you victory is based on points and not the amount of blood and limbs lost. That's why you can be reckless and hacvle to be fast. The only way to make points, is to land hits and not to survive. Let's be real. Both fighters would be dead in most of their encounters. But those are the rules.
Never seen this kind of fencing before. Please don't change the way its judged. Instant replays have killed spectator sports.
New to HEMA?
Ser utrolig moro ut. Bare så ille denne typen sport er relativt ukjent her til lands og mangelen på klubber deretter. (Starter man for seg selv ut av intet er det trolig lett å tillegge seg mange feil).
Det beste er å kontakte oss og komme på noen nybegynnerkurs for å så starte noe eget med venner i sitt nærområde hvis en bor langt unna Oslo/Bergen/Tromsø. PS: Det er utrolig gøy!
Or use 4 judges
А я всегда за тех кто побеждает.
Стенсон слабее, Кул топ
This would be a lot cooler if they could knock each other out
No combat sport is complete without the risk of permanent brain damage, amirite? Sigh...
swords aren't bludgeoning weapons. I think the way they score it is perfectly reasonable and realistic in simulating unarmored sword combat.
Cooler for the spectators maybe But not for the competitors. I took a hit to the back of the mask from a sword once it was not fun :) Well okay it was fun as it was swords, but I should have preferred to be hit somewhere else lol.