Episode 10 - 12 Speed Chain Compatibility
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- In this episode Adam from Zero Friction Cycling will be covering 12 Speed Chain Compatibility.
As always, don't forget to ask your questions in the comments section and Zero Friction Cycling will answer your questions as soon as we can.
Please enjoy !
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Hi Adam, loving my 12spd Shimano chain supplied and lubed with MSW by ZFC👍💪🔥
Thanks for the informative video - I learned a few things!
Looking to replace my deore 12v with a kmc 12v but I’m afraid that HG is not going to work anymore under load, what’s your experience with these ? Kmc is going to be smooth as shimano chains ?
Thanks for the informative video! Got a question. I run a “mullet” setup on my gravel bike: road axs brifters + gx axs derailleur + eagle 10-50 cassette + gx eagle chain. I can get it to shift well but cannot eliminate rubbing noise from the chain interfacing with certain cogs in the back despite optimizing chain length, b screw, derailleur hangar alignment, etc. Gx on my mtb is silent. I think the short chainstay of my gravel bike and the resultant extreme chain angle is the cause, and that’s why sram made the road axs chain overall width thinner. Since I need to stick to a 11/128 standard chain, do u happen to know which among those you recommend is the thinnest and hopefully solve my issue? Thanks in advance!
Hey Kyu! - Firstly next chain, do not run GX, they are pretty bad (very average wear lifespan), step up to xo1 for around 10 times the wear life. Buy ahead, they are very hard to get as GX chain production is priotised as unfortunately that is what everyone keeps buying, and they shouldnt. Absolutely step up to x01.
Secondly it is likely to be the larger chain ring (and maybe shorter stays) creating the more extreme chain line angle. Millimeters can matter so first check if you can get your crank mounted slightly further inboard (ie is there wave washer or spacer / shim on that side you can remove), and also do you have a couple mm's to shim cassette further outboard towards frame and still have clearance of 10t and frame.
Also - if you are in biggest cogs a lot, consider a smaller ring if you dont need those top gear inches all the time. A small ring will give you less extreme chain line, and also enable more run time on one more cog down.
You will be stuck re other chains - ybn and kmc 12 is same width, shimano 12 is a bit thinner but also has extended inner plate links so that will rub worse. Ekar 13 has a thinner internal width and so wont run. Alas you are going to need to play with the above to lessen the extreme angle (which will give you lower friction running in those gears as well for an extra bonus).
@@zerofrictioncycling992 your insight and thoughtful reply is much appreciated. I am going to experiment based on your recommendation!
I’m using 10 speed shimano ultegra + 105....using absolute black on some bikes with kmc chains FTW 👌🏻running 11 speed shimano rings with 10 speed too,mixed sram eagle with osymetric ring using kmc as well.....🙂👍🏻
graphen lube or graphen wax? (sorry for delay i didnt see comment!)
HI Have you any experience of reusing a Sram 12 spd powerlock? Sram say no ,or is there a reusable alternative for the flat top chain?
Hi Marcus - yes, tons and tons. For many years and oh so many waxers, they are re-using flat top for axs road, eagle for sram mtb, to date there has been ONE reported eagle link failure (generally advise new link after 5 x re uses approx). THis is not official ok though, you have to make the call yourself if ok to go against mfg instructions, but..... to make immersive waxing viable one needs to either be ok to re use the single use links, or next best is to use in conjunction with silca ss drip or cs ufo drip - they are 100% immersive wax compatible with no cleaning needed, so fallback option if re using link not for you is to wax, re lube next 5 x with ss drip / ufo drip, then re wax to reset any contamination and use new link - overall even with that link use due to the EXTREMELY low wear of either of the above approaches, cost to run drivetrain is still way lower vs normal drip lube use.
Great video. Will a Dura-Ace 11 Speed Crankset work with a 12 speed chain, 12 speed cassette and 12 speed Di2 front and rear derailleurs?
The crankset itself should overall be fine - the chain rings you will likely need to change to shimano 12s rings. the 12s shimano chain has special extended inner link plates as part of hyperglide + shifting, and so the teeth on 12s are specially profiled for these links - running 12s chain on 11s chainring will likely cause rough running / rubbing / issues especially on higher chain line angles as those extensions will rub against teeth not profiled for them
Thanks mate. Great video. Trying to a run a 12sp GX chain on a 12sp SLX cassette. Front ring is GX also. 11/128 so should work, but its really clicky on the cassette. It should work right?
Thanks Peak Torque, and yes mostly.... it should. There are some little differences though that can mean things have to be really dead on. The shimano chain is a little thinner than eagle, and rollers a little smaller, and has the extended inner plate links for hyperglide+ which the cassette teeth will be profiled for. However it should mean that simply we just need to ensure tune and b-tension etc is set precisely. Is it clicky in every gear or just largest cogs? and is it clicky on cassette but smooth through pulleys or is it not meshing perfectly into pulley teeth (eagle or shimano pulleys?). Honestly GX eagle can be faff to tune for gx cassettes - it is not usual for GX riders over time to at least upgrade shifter to x01 - as just have ongoing issues re some cogs it is clicking way as not perfectly tuned, and trouble keeping it in perfect tune.
Also basic checks such as if it was perfectly fine on GX cassette, and only change is to slx cassette, how old is chain? GX chains wear very rapidly, worn chain on new cassette can have poor mesh etc.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for the rapid response! Has been frustrating me since the width when measured seems almost the same. For clarity, its a GX groupset from new but had the cheaper NX cassette on a hyperglide hub. New wheels are xdr or microspline, so got a SLX blocks as its less than half the price of GX and its a winter hack...
Its clicky, oddly, in the smaller cogs at the back! Goes to the 51t with no binding. Its a metallic ticking sound. Maybe a very worn chain as you state. Has see some abuse! A few tweeks of cable tension either way doesn't seem to change much tangibly, then again on a gx shifter it never did, as you quite rightly state! Subbed to your channel, should have more mate!
@@PeakTorque ah yeah check chain wear first then, GX chains are shit. XO1 eagle has literally like 20 times the lifespan pretty much, or ybn 12 work super smooth on eagle and will with a SLX cassette, and about 5 times + wear life of a gx chain for most. And yeah im terrible at social media - i am going to lean in xmas hols to start trying to do vid updates meself now vs film days that i just never get to prep properly for, and due to cost though per vid i have used cover the main longer topic stuff, will be looking to move to shorter updates each week or two in 2023 which will hopefully drive a bit more traction vs very sporadic longer vids. Thanks for subbing! let me know how new chain goes - that wld be first port of call and do asap as running worn chain will chew out your new cassette and rings.
The reason sram cassettes double the cost of shimano is cos they use a much harder steel. Shimano stuff will wear much faster unless looked after, so you really dont want to run a worn chain - you can do a fair bit of damage in fairly short order, especially mtb with higher torque / tension for a given power due to smaller chain ring and grit involved etc
@@zerofrictioncycling992 interesting thanks mate. I know how hard the plan, write, edit process can be when all you wanna do is work and get the data. Its a labor of love, and hate!
Interesting about the hardness, have you hardness tested them? I normally go for Deore to get steel rings right to the top to deal with the low speed torque. Interestingly even the Deore cassettes use the same type of peened steel finish an ultegra road cassette, not the chrome plated (cheaper steel) equivalent to 105. Have never tried a ybn chain, may have to give it a shot id you reckon it'll work on both slx and sram cassettes.
@@PeakTorque No havent been able to hardness test them - i have had on the wish list for ages to wear test cassettes like the chain wear durability testing but lubricant testing has just been too flat out to try to keep up (there are scant options globally for manufacturers looking for independent verification on their lubricant performance).
Just from experience and also bikes through workshop over the years - srams steel cassettes have typically been notably harder wearing vs shimano. For eagle x01 and xx1 level this has been pretty easily determined as sram has actually marketed via reps that the cassettes 11 steel cogs are made of tool hard steel, and that is born out in practice with them being extremely hard wearing, and it is a big part of why they cost so much. An x01 / xx1 eagle vs XTR, XT, its no contest re wear, and the cost to mfg is a big part of why they cost so much more. This appears to carry on quite notably still down the range - a GX wont be same steel as an x01, but there is still a reason it costs double vs shimano equivalent - the steel is a lot harder.
*Note for eagle cassettes though, often x01 / xx1 are ruined due to the fact the largest cog is made of soft fast wearing alloy, not tool hardened steel. People shld try to avoid using as much as possible. I barely ever use mine, and it is still by far the most worn cog on my oldest xx1 cassette - where the steel cogs i have been using for last 6 years are barely worn at all. People who actually use the 50 / 52t cogs even mildly will have that cog worn to replacement point whilst the remaining 11 cogs are still mint perfect, ruining a very very very expensive cassette. It is maddening that sram do this.
Anyhoo :) - Yes the ybn will run beautifully on eagle and shimano - so if GX chain is worn (and its sounding the likely culprit) - definitely try a ybn sla 12spd - hopefully you live somewhere you can get one ok - they can be hard to find locally in some regions
Will a dura ace 11 speed chain run OK with a dura ace 9200 12 speed chainring?
I would love to hear your experience of 12-speed XTR chains on 11-speed Shimano drivetrains. It would be a lot simpler to just buy one type of chain for my road bikes. Also I'm hoping to benefit from the increased durability. On one bike however, I'm running 50/34 Praxis chainrings, not sure if that would be an issue. Thanks
Hi Ric so sorry for delay reply i wasnt getting notifications for ages. I havent tried this myself yet as i cant get any spare stock! And such field tests - one's anecdotal experience can not be guaranteed will be everyones, small differences in many aspects of drivetrain (chain stay length, bb width, cog range and ring size etc etc) will all impact as all impact what chain line is being run in what gear ratio.
But - i have had a good number of people over time email to advise there experience is xtr / DA 12 works perfectly for them on shimano 11spd. I havent had anyone advise of a negative experience. If it does work, then one can enjoy the approx 75% greater wear lifespan of the xtr 12 chain vs DA 11 or ultegra chain.
hope that helps!
Will Sram Red AXS 12 crankset work with Shimano Ultegra 11 cassette? If so, which chain Sram or Shimano, 11 or 12?
I was looking at your chain testing online and I can see the results where you mention x01 and xx1 being reliable but slow. I was wondering what happens for sram gx.... as your result show a very high wear rate (relatively) ... is it faster at the cost of reliability or is it slow and with a high wear rate ?
Honestly do not buy a gx chain. They do wear super fast, and just the cost of eagle cassettes, it is not worth that rapid wear rate at all due to the damage that will do to a very expensive component. People get caught out with GX all the time. I have had customers in the workshop days who would come in to get their chain cleaned ready for waxing, they had done say 5 rides on gx chain with factory grease, and chain is already between 0.3 and 0.5% worn, so its done. In real world riding vs control test it would not be unusual for x01 / xx1 chains to be at least 10 to 20 times more wear durable than gx.
It is due to srams hard chrome treatment on x01 / xx1 - their hardchrome treatment is industry leading, by miles, re increasing wear longevity over other brands chrome platings.
We dont know if GX is faster or not, it is possible - but even if it is a bit faster, it will still by no means be a fast chain. A little bit faster than the slowest chains ever tested (x01 / xx1) does not equal fast. A fast chain for eagle is ybn sla 12 - what a lovely chain that is.
**you will not notice that an x01 / xx1 chain is slow in your riding. They are a smooth chain and get along great with waxing (good bond). They are the worlds best training chain due to their unmatched wear life, and if you dont race, seriously - you will never notice that it is slower than say the ybn. If you race, training on x01 / xx1 and racing on ybn is the smart way to roll.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 qual corrente com melhor custo benefício para utilizar em grupo sram rival de 22 velocidades?
What about the new KMC gen 2 chains? These are marketed as compatible with all 12 speed setups, including SRAM AXS Road?
hi jon sorry delay reply, check latest news article here re kmc chains
zerofrictioncycling.com.au/latest-zero-friction-cycling-news-new-mspeedwax/
I'm running the mullet setup on my gravel bike. XX1 rear deral with GX Eagle 12 speed chain and GX 10-50 cassette. What options do I have for a road style wheel set cassette? I'm wondering if I can run the new 12 speed 105 cassette as it's not Hyperglide+ (just regular Hyperglide). Is there any cassette you'd recommend that's somewhere close to 11-44?
Hey there - yes you could run the 105 cassette, but i assume a different wheelset as that would be different freehub. I dont know of any other options that are 12spd and more road type gearing (aside from like campy 12s). All other 12s cassettes are really mtb cassettes (garbaruk, e-thirteen, sunrace) with same / similar range to eagle. Sram road / xplr not compatable as use the flat top chain - different standard.
But you are going to have issues - you cant just plug n play a much smaller range cassette as your b-tension will be way out. Ie the upper jockey wheel (guide wheel) is set to clear the 50t in cog 1, 42t in cog 2 etc - and following eagle cassette step downs in cog size. The eagle mechs parallelogram is designed to follow eagle cassettes cog sizes. If you put a much smaller range cassette in, then it will have WAY too much clearance - so the guide wheel will be miles away from the cog, and it will stay miles away - leading to terrible shift performance and poor wrap of chain around cog which may lead to chain jumping off cog under higher loads.
You would need to adjust B-Tension every time you swapped between the two cassettes. The parallelogram will then probably be ok with 11-44 vs a 10-50, but i wouldnt push it any more than that.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for that detailed reply - it explains a lot. I just wish I had seen a few weeks earlier having just tried to run a road setup on my Eagle mullet gravel bike (confirmed XPLR cassette does not work, and 10x36 Force is wonky). I guess that explains why Sram came up with XPLR to allow wider range gearing that would work with “ road” derailleurs. Bottom line I guess to keep mullet option and XX1 RD for gravel bike, a road wheel setup just has to use the big eagle cassette 🫤
Do you have a chain compatability table and with wear and shift efficiancies ?
Good question ming, i have the chain longevity data graph on chain longevity test page, i need to get to more chain testing for this just been so booked with lubricant testing. Shifting is too subjective and too many variables, i dont have a method to remove variables and provide and objective data result. Ie campy 12 chains and xtr 12 chains work perfectly on my sram eagle mtb's (for me xtr chain shifts better than an eagle chain), but other experience differs based on many factors (final chain line angle may be more or less extreme based on chainstay length, chain ring and cog size etc. I have axs shifting, they may have gx mechanical which can get very clunky very quickly - and multiply such variations across 11 & 12spd groupsets by a solid 10x, before then trying to apply to a particular chain on said groupset). Main guide is mostly if a chain is officially compatible with that system and it is a top chain (ie a ybn 11 or 12 on compatible 11 or 12 system) then your shifting should remain extremely good if it was so before. Aside from xtr 12 which has a hyperglide + system so it is best to stay on shimano 12 chains, and axs road which is its own standard - for 10 / 11 and campy 12 road, the design features on chains for shifting are all pretty nailed across brands as they have been at it for awhile. It would be a brave person who would say they could blind test the shifting difference on their 11spd bike between sram, shimano, ybn, kmc, campy chain etc. If on 12 spd have a look at video on 12spd chain compatibility
Hello.
I have a AXS groupset. I don’t want to use a cassette with 10t cog.
So I will swap the chain and the cassette with shimano 12s.
Does this work - regarding gear steps, pulley wheels and front chainrings?
Do you see any other problems?
Is there maybe a better option, e. g. aftermarket axs compatible cassettes?
Thank you 🙏
Hi there! It sounds like you are talking road (axs is just wireless, so there is axs road 12spd, and axs eagle mtb 12spd). For road no not at all, sram axs road as stated is its own completely different standard. The cog spacing is closer as axs road chains are much more narrow, and axs road chains have oversize rollers, so all components are made for these larger rollers. You cannot run a shimano 12spd cassette on a sram axs road equipped bike, you are completely locked in to stay all components in the sram axs road ecosystem. There are not yet to my knowledge any viable aftermarket options for sram axs road - which is surprising after all this time, word on the street is things are pretty locked up in patent navigation nightmare to try, and some that have come out (ie there is an aftermarket gravel chain ring).... im not so sure about how it would go. If you were talking mtb - you are still stuck with 10t for shimano 12spd XT /XTR.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Hi Adam. Yes; its about AXS Road.
Only for clarification: You say the jockey wheels will not work properly with the shimano chain (i can understand) and the index/gaps of the RD will not match the sprokets of a shimano cassette (thats harder to believe for me)?!
So I have to weit until Sram will lunch finally an 11t cassette.
Thanks for your support.
Hi loved the video thank you.
Wonder if you can help with this. I have a 11 speed ultegra r8000 chainring. And also on the rear. A shimano 12 speed ultegra 8100 cassette. However I would like to run sram etap force for the shifting. Would the shimano XTR 12 speed chain be fine. Of not what chain would you recommend. Many thanks. Ps the reason I want to keep my crank is because is has a duelside power metre. Cheers Ian
Hi Ian! sorry for delay reply, im trying to get better at checking you tube comments! If you have a shimano ring and shimano 12spd cassette, then absolutely you want the shimano 12spd chain - best chain on the market. But im a tad confused on questions as you then talking sram force for shifting - not sure how running force on a 12spd shimano cassette - even if you have used ratio tech to change to 12spd, im not sure the pull ratio's are the same for running shimano, you could check lennard zimm articles on velonews to see if he has covered this. If it is just about keeping crank though, 11spd road rings are fine with xtr / xt 12 chains. Hope that helps!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 hi Buddy thanks for the reply. Sorry for the confusion re sram force. So the setup I want to run is. Shimano 11 speed chainrings. Shimano 12 speed cassette. Sram force Axs shifters. Force axs front and rear mech and a shimano xtr 12 speed chian. I was just wondering if this configuration would work.?
Many thanks 👌🏿
@@ianhunter1279 Ah i see. To start the force shifters and mech will work with shimano cassette, sram 11 and shimano 11 cassettes have same cog spacing. SO it is really just will the xtr 12 run on a shimano 11s cassette and rings. Rings yes. Cassette, most likely perfectly fine but not guaranteed. It is a thinner chain, so it is possible that with the increased distance between side of chain and next cog, that shifting in some spots may be lazy. However (an i havent tried this myself, i havent had any xtr 12 chains to spare - stock is a nightmare) - i have had quite a few people write in to advise they are running shimano 12s on their 11spd drivetrains, and shifting is great. it may be that he hyperglide + of the 12spd chain is offsetting the increased spacing. Mix and match is never guaranteed for everyone, but it seems to have a high chance of being all groovy in this case. There are advantages to running the xtr 12 if it does work fine and that is that it is a VERY wear durable chain being not far off double longevity vs DA11.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 hi Buddy thank you for the detailed response that puts my mind at ease. I'll go for it and give it a try lol. Thanks once again 👌🏿
Great video. Can I run a Campy 12 speed chain on Sram 11-speed Chainrings? I'm wanting to put Record components on my bike but I don't want to pay for the expensive crankset when I already have a nice SRAM Red 11-speed crankset. Thanks!
Hey Ztz - overall likely yes - the internal width is the same and rollers the same, so actual running on the rings and cogs will be perfect - just note the campy 12 chain will be externally thinner, and so this may affect chain pick up for shifting - shifting MAY be a little lazier than with correct width chain for the system.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 excellent, thank you for the detailed response.
I have a old Cannondale that I'm fixing up. It's a gear rear cassett with 3 rings at front. Hyperglide cassettn XT components. Not sure what I need for a chain. Any help, thanks.
hey there - that will be determined by the number of cogs at the back. If its 10 or 11spd, i would go shimano's very hardy link glide LG 500. If its 9spd or 8spd - most of those chains now are very budget and thus very fast wearing - your longest lasting are ybn sla 9spd or wippermann connex 9sb, or 8spd the ybn H8 or wipperman 808
Question: Is the previous 11 Speed SRAM Red eTap crankset (52-36 for example) compatible with the Red eTap AXS 12 Speed chain, AXS Front derailleur, 12 Speed cassette (10-28) and Red AXS rear derailleur? If not, why?
I just don't like how it's machined out of one piece, making the powermeter consumable once it wears out. Can't get a clear answer on this.
Hi Chris - sadly that is a definite no. The 11spd crankset is made for an 11spd chain which is 5.6mm wide and normal size rollers. The axs 12spd moves to a very thin chain (4.9mm wide) which has oversize rollers. The rings, cassette etc are all designed for a chain that is externally much thinner, internally thinner and with over size rollers. That chain will not run on chain rings designed for the sram 11spd chain, and the spacing between the rings would be wrong the the axs front mech. I do not believe you can purchase red axs 12spd chain rings to fit the older cranks either - they are making sure you stay in the correct system compatibility.
It is, in my opinion, almost criminally stupid to integrate the power meter into consumable wear components such as chain rings. Yes their chain rings are hardy, and so if looked after by the user a) running a top lubricant choice and b) replacing chains at wear replacement mark - then lifespan will be very good - but still, that is nuts to need to replace PM when replace rings.
however - as we know all to well, a huge majority of cyclists a) run a terrible lubricant because of so many reasons, and b) do not track chain wear. There is only so much abuse chain rings and cassettes can take - run a crap lubricant and run it too long - well that will be the ball game for those rings in relatively short time.
Again sram do some great stuff. Small rings for road / tt and 10t cog is not one of them. Having pm with consumable rings is not one of them. Having tool hard steel xx1 / xo1 cassettes for the smaller 11cogs but a super soft, not individually replaceable largest cog is not one of them. I find these three especially extremely frustrating. Had i been at the meetings where such things were signed off, i would have been interesting to deal with indeed and by end of meeting would have been fired. Or arrested.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you. That was brilliant information that just doesn't exist online, or I don't know how to use Google... If nothing else, SRAM AXS is literally going to force me to be super particular about cleaning my bike, drivetrain, and checking my chain in an attempt to keep my chainrings and PM working for as long as possible. Or, I could settle for Assioma or Rally pedals. The latter feels easier.
@@M3GRSD my pleasure and dont worry it is actually tricky sometimes to wade through the info out there. And ha yes whilst sram PM situation is nuts - you should see where shimano is at with there pm crank after many years of it on the market - i cant believe shimano have ballsed that up so much! (DC rainmaker has a great video on that recently - highly recommend watching).
Assioma are brilliant but if on shimano you have to faff with a diy cleat change still i think. Rally are expensive, seem solid - mostly - i have just bought my third set, and this set is WAY OUT (like 50w too low) - hoping the latest firmware update and calibration will have fixed for next ride - first 2 sets have been solid, but at this price - i shouldnt be worrying about why my third set is so far out. still, should be fixable, and yeah, no way on earth would i run a power meter integrated into my chain rings - especially at those costs!
can a run 2 by 12 SRAM Force eTap AXS groupset with a Shimano r7100 chrankset, Shimano 12 speed chain, and Shimano 12 speed road cassette? Can I change the jockey wheels on the SRAM rear derailleur to be Shimano compatible?
alas no you cant go that way. People are getting away with running shimano on sram flat top system (not recommended though), but the oversize rollers of the sram flat top chains just wont run on shimano chain rings / cassettes.
And i dont know what the case to try would be. Ie they are not a blindingly fast chain, so there is no call to try and run them for that reason, and shimano 12s m8100 and m9100 are very wear durable, and you have the right chain as part of the hyperglide+ shifting. I have no idea what the reasoning would be to try to put a sram flat top chain on instead?!
Be interesting to hear your thoughts on things like chains for indoor training Vs out door, e.g. would you have one for each
Mostly - despite me being a pretty avid waxer - i recommend long lasting, very low wear wet lubricant for indoor (top ones at the moment are silca synergetic or rex black diamond). Waxing treatment lifespan is not super long compared to those, and you do get a build up of excess snowflakes which outdoors just blows away.
so waxing or waxing in conjunction with wax compatible lubricant is numero uno for most for outdoors, or top wax lubricant like FLower power if not immersive waxing at all, indoors where contamination is not an issue - long lasting very low wear wet lube like the above 2
@@zerofrictioncycling992 great thank you!! Would you use a separate chain for indoor vs. outdoor?
@@jamesbailey5008 That ones a bit tricky - i think it depends if you have a dedicated ergo bike - then its just that chain, if it is your daily rider going on for the odd ergo - i would stick with waxing - depending on balance of outdoor vs indoor. The problem if you do not have a dedicated ergo bike and look to run a wet lube for ergo and wax lube for outdoor, is you would need to clean drivetrain components of wet lube before putting your wax chain back on otherwise you will contaminate the wax chain, which will contaminate wax in pot which will have future waxings probably not adhere well. So you kinda have to make a call on the bike if its wax chain or wet lube chain - both would be a lot of faffing - negating the advantages of either path.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Great thank you! For me it's probably two indoor sessions and one out door session a week on the same bike(s), so I guess go with wax then..
Running sram red axs 12sp groupset with flattop chain on fsa super 11sp chain rings. Adjust FD accordingly using srams instructions as a start point. Shifts are nearly perfect.
What about 12 speed Shimano road, with a 1x chainring... what would be the best chain to use, no one makes 1x chainring for road yet, so want to use a 1x 11 speed chainring narrow wide.... What chain will be best ? YBN 12 speed ?
Yep thats a good question - you are correct i havent seen a road 1x shimano 12s chain ring yet but i havent searched much - maybe someone has one but im not sure. Assuming not yet, then yes for a fast chain and good wear lifepsan - ybn 12. You will be giving up hyperglide + shifting at rear moving away from shimano 12s chain, but you will probably have issues running that chain on a narrow wide chain ring. Expect just basically Dura ace 11spd shifting level vs hyperglide+. For ultimate wear longevity for training - sram x01 eagle or xx1 eagle. You will never wear one of those chains out. Ie training on x01, race on ybn.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thank you for the fast reply.. yes I've used eagle chains before on 11 speed setup 1x they do last a long time, specially since I started using wax., I'll comment back on how it feels when I set it up on my 105 di2 with the YBN12 and Narrow wide garbaruk chainring, thank you.
@@JMacSp I have this setup and wrote about it elsewhere in this thread. Quoting myself here to save time: "Using a Garbaruk front chain for my new Shimano Ultegra Di2 in a 1x12 setup and had exactly the same question about HyperGlide+ compatability for a multi-teeth design. Garbaruk promised it would work - and a little to my surprise - I have no complaints so far. Its still early days but rear shifting is great and the system noiseless, on top I have not had any chain drops in spite of hitting a couple of very brutal bumps that flung other parts off the bike. Probably these chain rings work the best for 12 speed chains, but only guessing here? I think there are 3 multi-chain-type-compatible producers that include HyperGlide+ compatability - WolfTooth for instance does not even if they have HG+ chain rings. Maybe you can one day test how these chain rings work on friction/wear? A lot of people are looking for HG+ alternative chain rings for existing bikes now as they look to upgrade to the new Shimano HG+ group sets."
Using a Garbaruk front chain for my new Shimano Ultegra Di2 in a 1x12 setup and had exactly the same question about HyperGlide+ compatability for a multi-teeth design. Garbaruk promised it would work - and a little to my surprise - I have no complaints so far. Its still early days but rear shifting is great and the system noiseless, on top I have not had any chain drops in spite of hitting a couple of very brutal bumps that flung other parts off the bike. Probably these chain rings work the best for 12 speed chains, but only guessing here? I think there are 3 multi-chain-type-compatible producers that include HyperGlide+ compatability - WolfTooth for instance does not even if they have HG+ chain rings. Maybe you can one day test how these chain rings work on friction/wear? A lot of people are looking for HG+ alternative chain rings for existing bikes now as they look to upgrade to the new Shimano HG+ group sets.
AH most excellent. Yes on my mtb i have wolf tooth hyperglide+ rings - and all been perfect over a couple years now re no chain drops, even when not running shimano chain but back to eagle for training or ybn for racing. Sounds like garbaruk may be at least as good. Issue that may come up with trying cross compatibility in shimano 12s is going to be more on the back end for single ring bikes, if one goes away from shimano they will be giving up hyperglide + shifting if using a different cassette or chain. For road bikes i am not sure who yet may have shimano 12s compatible rings but considering how astoundingly good the new shimano 12s front shifting is, i wouldnt mess with that unless there was an extreme cosmetic benefit :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 "i wouldnt mess with that unless there was an extreme cosmetic benefit :)" - Agree 100%. But and Shimano does not make 5-point BCD chain rings which I'm stuck with. I confess I did get "bling" now that I was forced to experiment anyway. 🙃 Happy riding!
I have a 12 speed shimano microspline, kmc dlc chain. Swapping to sram nx Crankset, will I need to swap my sram eagle chain ring out? Finding contradictory info everywhere I look.
Hey cremanderek (cool name) - i am missing a crucial bit of info - if you have a shimano crank with your 12spd shimano groupset - then your existing chainring for a shimano crank wont go onto a sram crank as sram have their own direct mount system. The chain will be fine (just i wouldnt waste big bucks on DLC chain - pretty misleading claims on those chains, the DLC is an EXTERNAL coating applied after construction, there is no DIAMOND LIKE HARDNESS on any key wear / load surfaces - it has the same - poor - wear life as other KMC 12spd chains, there is zero performance or wear longevity benefit, you just paid a lot for a uselessly hard external plating).
If you have shimano 12spd cassette, you should stay (for most) with shimano chains as they have extended inner link plates as part of the hyperglide+ shifting. Moving away from that shifting will still be groovy, just not hyperglide + groovy. If you are planning to run a shimano 12s chain in future however, you will need to ensure a shimano 12s compatible ring, a normal sram chain ring you would probably buy for your sram crank will not work with a shimano 12s chain - you would need to stay with kmc / ybn / sram eagle. if you want to have hyperglide + shifting, and thus get a shimano 12s chain, then wolf tooth shimano 12s compatible ring for sram direct mount is what you are after. Otherwise sram eagle chain ring for your sram eagle crank, but run kmc / ybn / sram eagle chain. Of those eagle x01 level is extremely wear durable but not a fast chain, ybn sla 12 super fast but similar wear life to a dura ace 11 chain (medium wear life), kmc - also very fast but poor wear lifespan. If you dont race, go xo1, if you do race ,train on xo1, race on ybn. Dont go GX level, very poor wear life - spend the extra on x01 level if going sram.
Hope that helps.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 you are the man!!! That’s literally all the information I’ve been searching for the past two weeks! Thanks a ton! Much appreciated!
I currently run a 1x11 setup with grx rear derailleur, sunrace cassette, sram red 22 crankset with Absolute black ring.
I'm planning to switch to SRAM Rival controls and Rival XPLR RD and I'm trying to understand the different possibilities in term of chains and cassette.
If I understood correctly:
option 1: I stay in the axs ecosystem so everything sram, 10-44 XPLR cassette, 12speed flat top chain and that's all
option 2: if I want more flexibility in terms of cassette/chain I need to change the Pulley wheel with some 3rd part one, otherwise the jockey wheels don't work with other chains than flattop
Is it right?
Hi Michele - sorry delay we had dashed off for a weekend of racing!
If you go the xplr path then you are switching into the flat top ecosystem. AB or alugear or wolf tooth MAY (im havent had time to check for awhile) make an axs flat top compatible ring for your crank - but im not sure. You will definitely need to go an xplr cassette as the indexing on the xplr RD is set for the more narrow cog spacing of the flat top chains (they are thinner than sram eagle 12spd). This means you should then be running the flat top chain to match the cassette and the pulleys on RD, as such you need a flat top compatible chain ring.
YBN and KMC both claim for their 12spd chains that they are compatible with flat top system, however i am EXTREMELY dubious of these claims as they are different standards, with flat top chain being externally and internally thinner and with larger rollers. YBN / KMC / sram eagle 12spd chains are externally and internally wider - so indexing has to be extremely precise, but the greater chain line angles of larger xplr cassette will still have a very high chance of side of chain rubbing on sides adjacent teeth in larger cogs even when indexed as perfect as possible. Also standard size rollers running on cassette teeth machined for oversize rollers means that to those chains an xplr cassette would appear very worn, and it is possible that much more early than normal chain could jump under high load. I just wouldnt do it, and i disagree with those chains being cross compatible to a completely different standard groupset.
For most flexibility you may want to have a look at what is called "mullet" set up. SO you can pair rival controls to an axs GX eagle rear mech and run sram eagle cassette - however you are stuck then with a pretty big range of 10-50 or 10-52 (it is getting hard to find 10-50). Again depending on the frame, chain line angle in the largest cog can be extreme as it is just a really big cog for a gravel bike, and they are not always designed to be able to run such a large cog due to the more extreme chain line angle this creates (gravel bikes can have shorter chain stay lengths than mtb,s and mtbs tend to have smaller chain rings - like a 32. Running a 38 or 40t chain ring on a gravel bike to a 52t cog - holy batman that gets to be an extreme angle for the chain). Tricks can be done to get to help chain line angle a little bit - in most cases (spaced cassette as close to frame as possible, spacing crank as close to frame as possible even though it can mean not being symmetric with q-factor)
So..... mullet set up will be likely easier and cheaper - you will still want a GX eagle cassette so there is $$ there, as well as your axs GX mech to go with your rival controls - but you can run sram eagle or ybn 12spd chain - just take note of possible chain line angle issues in the largest cog. If you go xplr, as well as xplr cassette and mech you will need flat top compatible chain ring which MAY = new crank if you cant find one that is genuinely compatible for your existing crank from aftermarket players, and you will absolutely want to use the flat top chain not eagle / ybn / kmc.
Hope that helps!
@@zerofrictioncycling992 wow, thanks for the very exaustive answer. Yes it seems a real PITA for people who loves to customize parts on the bike..in this case GX rear derailleur is the best solution, apart for the weight. At least you can use a 3rd part cassette with eagle rd
@@MikeRegrexion ah yes correct - some brands like garbaruk may do a more gravel range - again i need to find time to do some good surfing soon to catch up on the latest. It is a bit of PITA re researching what is compatible, and it can be confusing that axs mtb (eagle) and axs xplr are not directly cross compatible. However on the plus side, if one does do the research and plan out which system is going to suit them best, there are some great options these days to make a bike capable across a pretty huge range of terrain / needs. It does look like sram are starting to move eagle to flat top based on recent prototypes seen at world cup level - so perhaps in not too distant future there will be direct cross compatibility from axs road to xplr to eagle, making the options for builds like yours less confusing & easier, and it will just be more legacy groupset owners that have to be careful with changes / upgrades.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 what I still don't understand is if it's possible to use the Eagle axs rd with a smaller cassette, like 9-46 or less. 10-50 is really overkill for what I normally do
@@MikeRegrexion yep will work all groovy with those if you can find in 12spd - i know e-thirteen / garbaruk do that range in 11 but from what i have seen - 12spd see's big ranges like 9 to 50. I think shimano might be best bet i believe they have a m9101 - 12spd that is 10 to 45, shimano and sram use same indexing / spacing
Hi, great video. Lots of useful information but a bit lengthy. I listen to it as a podcast while driving. 😂
On the SRAM AXS RED vs Force chains, I'm very curious to know why the Force chain is very slightly faster than RED. Will greatly appreciate if you can answer this. Cheers and I look forward to more of your videos or "podcasts".
Thanks huang - and ha thats how i do most you tube content myself - sorry re length, im working on it. Not my strong point but i am working on it .... :). Honestly no one can give you a definite answer on that. It is highly, highly unusual. It is the same situation with their eagle chains, where x01 is faster than xx1 by basically same amount that force is faster than Red. It shouldnt be the case, and its confusing, but ceramic speed have tested and re tested across multiple batches. No answer on this will ever be forthcoming from sram i do not believe. They will be on different production lines as Red has hollow pins etc, xx1 have ti-n external plating and hollow pins vs solid pins - but likely there is a slight difference in the way and number of parts HARD CHROME is applied, and maybe there is a slight tolerance difference - if they are a little tighter tolerance, they will be slower for awhile until very broken in. But honestly, overall it is a bit of mystery, Red should not be slower than force, and xx1 should not be slower than x01, typically on higher level the low friction coating used is applied to more parts of the chain, - ie shimano siltec on 105 is applied to pins. For ultegra it is applied to pins and inner plate links, for DA it also applied to rollers, and each level is faster than the other. We would have expected the same with sram - and maybe they do - and it is something else in the mfg that is causing the higher level with low friction coating applied to more parts to still be slower, such as tighter toleranced fit etc.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for the speedy response and detailed information! Yeah, initially I thought it could be a batch issue, but you clarified that it was tested across batches. This is indeed weird. For the sake of marginal gains, I'll be upgrading to a a Force chain (from Rival) then. Many many thanks again for going deep into this technical realm. 🙏
@@huangteng My pleasure im trying to be better checking comment questions :) And yep this is why if one buys a ceramic speed axs road UFO chain - it is force, not red level, as that is the faster chain - and as it was an unexpected resulted, this was checked and re checked a lot before they made to call to go force vs red (and same re eagle).
it is still being investigated as i have concerns regarding the compatibility as they are different standards - but now both KMC and ybn claim their 12spd chains are compatible axs road - and extensive field testing by mspeedwax in USA for ybn 12 with axs road riders has been extremely positive. Depending on budget, you could look to run a ybn 12, or for the fastest known chain at this time, campy super record 12 (2.8w vs force 5.5w - same standard as the ybn 12, from memory ybn 12 circa 4w vs force 5.5w) - if they run ok and at race loads (test carefully.....) - then they are are much faster chain, sram do many great things that i am huge fan of, fast chains is not one of them, and the smaller rings = smaller cog for a given gear inches and smaller rings = greater chain tension so the greater articulation is happening under high chain load for a given power vs larger ring - a penalty that is lesser the faster the chain, penalty greater the slower the chain - if ybn or campy 12 as a race chain tests ok on your bike, then that can be an option. I have covered in the video above i think the concerns re compatibility of this, however mspeedwax are the north american distributor of ybn for USA and so have been having the ybn 12 tested with a lot of athletes and they have had no negative results yet - i remain concerned to say the least, however - if you are looking to save another 1-2w and can afford to buy a chain that may not work out - it can be worth a play. triathletes / time trial less likely to have issues as steady state power, any issues are more likely to come up under high power - and my fear is a chain jump under stand up sprint sending rider over the bars onto asphalt - so yep - test with caution if you try
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks again for the detailed explanation.
You mentioned that YBN and KMC claim that their 12spd chains are compatible with AXS road. I googled but couldn't find information to support this claim. I think I'll still play it safe and go with Force - I'm concerned about the longevity of my powermeter chainring and cassette (which cost quite a bit) over saving 1.5W. That 1.5W will still bugger me time to time, but I guess it is something to live with until more concrete data is available on the compatibilty of a 3rd party chains with AXS road. On this, I guess I'll continue to stay tuned to your YT and website. 👍🙏
Yup, I read about the smaller SRAM chainring, cassette leading to more chain articulation and thus more watts loss. I read about it AFTER I bought my SRAM equipped bike haha. But I really like SRAM for many other things like it being truly wireless (removable batteries) and the design of its crankset and the very ergonomic Rival shifters.
@@huangteng KMC product information claims their 12spd chain compatible with ALL 12spd systems, and YBN have updated that information too (i dont have that on my product info though). The main concern for me is smaller rollers vs oversize axs rollers - the axs cassette and rings are profiled for larger rollers, running chain with smaller rollers would to the drivetrain be like running chain on very worn components - and we know that putting a new chain on worn cassette / rings can have chain jump under load. Sometimes (as in stand up pedalling at high power) - this can lead to very bad outcome for the rider. Also they are notable wider, so tuning would need to be extremely precise. this may be fine on one bike, but what if another persons hanger is 0.5mm out of alignment, will they be able to achieve an absolute perfect tune such that the wider chain is not rubbing in some cogs?
Yes those chains are notably faster than srams not so fast chains, but one should test carefully if moving to a ybn or kmc for more speed for racing - maybe it goes perfectly, maybe it doesnt. Unfortunately i have not much hope that sram are going to make a fast chain, and the slower chain = greater penalty for smaller rings = more articulation at rings and at greater chain tension, a smaller cog at rear for given gear inches = more articulation. THe move to small rings for road is, from an effeciency perspective, bad. And not having a really fast chain to minimise penalty for this is, not great also. There is a reason why shimano and campy will not follow that path, and you can see how much pro's also have these concerns, they were very quick to get 54/38 ringset not avail to gen public, and lock out the 10t, so going back to where they were with 11spd. Because 48 / 32 with a 10t for road.... this has not been srams finest move. i am a huge fan of a lot of what sram has pioneered - axs roads small rings move is not one of them, and i wish they could make a fast chain. They should release a tt / race chain - they would sell heaps. If you race - try to break in chain well in clean conditions - they will get faster for a good while as their tight tolerances loosen up a bit.
Sram 11 speed chain is ok to us on sram 10 speed drivetrain ?
Hey Ironore - mostly yes - they are the same standard re internal width which is what is running on the rings and cogs - just the 11s will be externally thinner. This will have a bit more space between chain and cogs which MAY make shifting slightly more lazy vs the correct speed for the system. Some notice a change, some do not. There should not be any noticeable impact on front, 10s rings are actually spaced slighly closer than 11s.
what is the shifting performance on YBN chain with Shimano ultegra 11spd?
Hey Aria - yeah the ybn chains have been fantastic - we sell them at probably around 10 to 1 vs OEM chains, we literally sell thousands of them per year with a huge amount of repeat sale on them so once one goes to ybn vs shimano / sram etc so once one tries YBN they almost always stay with YBN vs going back to shimano or sram - which is really the best sign they are the rolls royce choice overall being both fast and great wear life and great shifting. If they were problematic in anyway i certainly would not stock / recommend them - we would simply stick to what we can absolutely recommend and sell that instead, we have no resources / desire to have anything other than very happy customers by selling only the genuine proven best in class products we find,
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thank you so much for this reply. Cheers!
YBN SLA 11V compatible sram rival 22v or better at xx1 11 speed?
yep with 11spd you can mix and match to hearts content, ybn sla 11 great on sram red / force / rival 22 - longer lasting and faster than 1170 / 1190 chains, xx1 11 is longer lasting than ybn but slower
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks
Sir, then for what you say, I have a idea (must be bad, 😅)
Want to use in MTB a 2x 11 (11 speed Cassette, 11 speed 28-38 front rings) but with 12 speed Chain (Yaban) and a 12 speed fron derailleur XT. My question is: do you think the 12 speed front XT derailleur work properly?, is a front pull XT front derailleur.
Sorry my poor english Sir, hope you understand me. 👋
Hey agua- no that wont work. If you are on 11spd cassette and rings, why go to 12spd chain and front mech? the 12spd chain will likely be fine, but the 12spd mech will not - i am not sure what would be driving that decision making. The cable lever ratio for 12spd mech is different, so if paired to an 11spd shifter, things will be wacky. You may find it does note move enough, or moves too much for the lever throw, so you would likely either under shift or over shift.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thank Sir for your words.
the reason?: low price in Aliexpress for 12 speed MTB front derailleurs (13 usd for XT brazed) and the dificult for find 11 speed front derailleur in my country ( 80 usd for SLX front aprox).
Thank you so much Sir, apreciate. 👋
@@aguagou ah i see. But ooooh that would worry me what i was getting for those $$ from Ali. In my younger days on tight budgets i would try to save money, and it almost always costs more. Ie i buy the cheap thing, it doesnt work, or it works badly. so then i buy the proper thing. Now i have spent money on both the cheap rubbish and the proper thing. It would have been cheaper to just buy the proper item to start with. Plus if it doesnt work you will have other incidental costs like re cabling again, and if the shift performance is out of whack, you could have chain drops and wrap chain around bb, which can bend chain links, snap rear mech hanger etc etc. There is a saying - "Dont try to save me money, i cant afford it" - that saying and similar come from situations exactly like what you are looking at doing! :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thank you so much Sir, I go for the proper thing. 🇨🇱👋
Xtr M9100 chain rust proof?
?? no chain is rust proof! There are some specific anti corrosion chains, but i stopped stocking those due to poor lifespan (for giving you anti corrosion treatment they dont bother with longevity treatments like chromium plating on pins - same as most e bike chains). Non anti corrosion specific chains will rust if not kept lubricated. You shouldnt look for anti corrosion chains, you should look to ensure keep chain lubricated and protected. Waxed chain if not practical to re wax post proper wet ride due to time, just quickly wipe dry and add a coating of silca ss drip, ufo drip, or tru-tension tungsten all weather. If not waxing, just do same post proper wet ride until you can clean & re set. So yep message is dont worry about the rust resistance of chain, just take care of lubrication and that problem is never a problem.
XTR (12spd) chains make a lot of noise even on the xtr cassette on the largest cogs in my experience.
Hi Attila this shouldnt be the case, Shimano are just the most refined re groupsets and shifting, it should be very silky smooth. If it isn't, something is not right. Check that chain is on correcty (shimano chains are still directional - writing must face outwards), how extreme is your chain line angle? some bikes are set up incorrectly to make chain line angle worse than it needs to be, ie there is a wave washer or other spacer on drive side of spindle pushing chain ring out another mm or two, on 12spd systems even another mm can have a notable impact on chain line for such large cogs and cause extended inner plate links to rub on side of cassette teeth. If still not smooth, can cassette be moved outwards towards frame a mm or two if clearance between lockring and frame (there are shims you can get down to 0.1mm thickness to ensure cassette is mounted as outboard as possible for your frame - again you will be surprised just how important every mm is - i have had some bikes in where things were really unhappy in big cogs - using either shimano or sram, removed a stupid wave washer from drive side, shimmed cassette over a bit, and all has then been lovely). Also ensure be tension & chain length correct - it may be worth having a proper good mechanic check, it definitely should be silky smooth if shimano - they are the industry standard re smooth, fast, quiet and best shifting drivetrains.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you for the detailed response. The noise starts about 20-25 miles into rides and is limited to the three largest cogs (same noise on all three). 2020 Sworks epic, came stock with xtr. Not that it ensures everything is right but I'm a professional mechanic, I'm confident it's not a matter of setup/adjustment though. The dirt where I live is really fine loose over hard pack. I have a Scott Spark too with eagle xx1 and I can hear the drivetrain effiency degrade on that one too around the same mileage but it's not nearly as bad as the screeching on the xtr drivetrain. I use Silca Super Secret Chain lube because I can't get the chain clean enough after rides to put it in the hot melt so I reserve that for my road bike. I think the real question is which lube would last the longest in the conditions I'm dealing with.
Tim Allen.
The Shimano 2x11 speed chainring does not work very well with the 12 spd xtr chain as it got problems to climb from the small to the large ring. The problem is described in another yt channel ruclips.net/video/ruHtdwH0A1g/видео.html
Thanks erik - yes it is probably time for me to update this vid - since this one we finally obtained loss figures for shimano xtr / da 12 and it is MUCH slower than expected. And whilst the anecdotal feedback i have received for use on 11spd has been overall very positive, we always need to be cautious. Small things like person A chain line angle vs Person B due to cog / rings size, bb, crank spacing, chain stay length etc - small things can change chain line angle for one rider vs another enough that in certain cogs - front shfiting for one will be a different experience to another etc ,and one person might report its perfect, another have issues. I will watch the vid you sent soon, thanks!
Thanks, the problem is due to longer distance between the climbing pins on the 11 spd chain ring.
I had a very standard setup with complete Shimano R8000, 52/36 chain rings, 11-28 cassette and the cn-m9100 chain.
Tried to adjust the front derailleur with both setup screws and compensation via Di2 sw, but with no success.
When talking about compability, I think this is a major flaw.
I guess the person(s) who reported success used a non Shimano crankset or chain rings.
As I use the large chain ring in 99,5% of the time the problem is not huge. Did ~7500 km on the cn-m9100 chain last year.
Thanks for your great videos. Looks like the Sram road wide 1X front chainrings are compatible with both flattop and Eagle 12 speed chains based on Sram’s website and this video talking about “mullet” setups. Confusing but does this mean you could run a new Sram road Rival 1X wide crank set with 10 or 11 speed “mullet” setup as well? ruclips.net/video/Zmeqfc0sTBE/видео.html
HI j, yes i just had a great email chain with a guy re just this. It is really confusing overall. The chains are two completely different standards so for srams 1x specific crank / ring that is compatible apparently with both - i think thats a nightmare. It has to compromise - ie for it to be compatible with flat top oversize rollers - there would have to be less wear tolerance for running eagle or other 11/128 standard chain. If it is thin enough for flat top chain, then chain retention on 11/128 standard chains would be compromised. And then people get confused and put and eagle cassette and mech on and then a flat top chain , and that doesnt work at all, but thought were fine because the ring is flat top and eagle compatible. Honestly its bonkers. For so long how often do say sram say dont mix and match with shmano in 11spd, even though they are the same standard. And now they are trying to cross compatible two completely different standards of their own making. i am not in support of such, its just a mess. You can do a great mullet set up with axs by drop bar axs shifters paired to eagle cassette and mech, and running eagle chain, but really recommend still their narrow wide ring to keep everything in the same standard.
im just gonna get me a narrow wide ring , a kmc 12spd chain , and a sunrace cassette , and run it with a deore deraileur and xt shifter . why sunrace ? its the only 12 speed cassete i can fin with 11-52 to fit my HG hub because if i have to replace my wheelset to go 1x12 i might as well just buy a new bike , there arent any freehub bodies available for my cheapo chinese hubs
nice - yep all you are giving up is a 10t cog, so - not much. I wouldnt personally go kmc for my chain, i would go eagle x01 or xx1 for ultimate wear longevity.
A lot of people are running Shimano chains on SRAM AXS without issue. You should have tried it or researched before stating that. I've even had customers quote you while installing replacement 12sp shimano chains on SRAM for a different customer.
Researched it yes, tried it - there are limitations to how many combinations of things i can personally try as i can only have so many bikes to ride and i dont ride axs road. Been awhile since i watched that vid, but i think i covered in there that people have & do try non axs road compatible chains (ybn / kmc - shimano would be in same boat) on axs road - but the main thrust of why i would not recommend that remains the same - it is a completely different standard , and to those chains, the axs road cassettes and rings would look like very worn parts. We know that it is common if people put a new chain onto worn parts, it may jump under load. It happens every year that people do this, it jumps off chain ring under stand up power, and they have a hot date with the asphalt.
So your point is, know this to be fact - that is should be saying based on anecdotal reports that people are doing so and its fine, that i should recommend people to engage in a complete standard compatibility mismatch that may result in serious injury?
Unless you are talking about sram axs eagle vs road? In which case yes i have tried that and covered the caveats with that in the video no?
@Zero Friction Cycling I get that you can't test everything but people had already done it well before you published this and a lot of people have been sure it wouldn't work because they heard it from you here and in interviews from you on other channels.
*I managed over 8k miles out of a waxed Dura Ace chain on my first SRAM 12sp cassette. A chain bought from you that was gifted to me by my girlfriend. It's still going. No idea how much longer it'll last since I ride so many different bikes.
*No skipping issues either and I'm a strong cat 1 at 88kg.
@@veganpotterthevegan so your problem is that i am recommending against putting a completely incorrect standard chain on axs road, based on the fact that X people are anecdotally having no issues with it?
Just how many people are being badly put out by running the correct chain for their system after seeing my video? what magnificent benefit are you getting by running a shimano chain on sram axs road vs running the sram chain that drives you to take the time to go online and shoot down someone advocating they stay with the correct chain for that standard?
Unsure how this has got you fired up lol!!! But i am fascinated :)
@Zero Friction Cycling not fired up at all. But you're big on others sharing disinformation and for good reason. This is the only instance I've seen you be intellectually inconsistent. That's not a bad record.
*My benefit is not getting an inefficient chain as your data shows. Should I not trust your data now?
@Zero Friction Cycling is everyone that's critical about one single thing you've done(while being a customer🙃) "fired up"?😉
Great! Become a YT god - P R O M O S M.
Just lock down the camera next time. Sheesh.
apologies - i had a YT film company then doing the filming - i complained about the zooming, wtf! sorry bout that.
Totally understandable! The information is super helpful!! @@zerofrictioncycling992