Romans Does Not Mean What You think It means! Romans #9 - David Bercot
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- D💎Romans Does Not Mean What You Think It means! Romans #9 - David Bercot⭐
Romans 9:25-26, quoting Hosea 2:23 and 1:10) Hosea is talking about the restoration of Israelites who had fallen away, but Paul is adapting the verse to say that God is calling Gentiles, who had never been part of God's people. God can reject Israelites who persistently reject him.
Romans 9 is the ninth chapter of the Epistle to the Romans in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. It is authored by Paul the Apostle, while he was in Corinth in the mid-50s AD, with the help of an amanuensis, Tertius, who adds his own greeting in Romans 16:22.
In this video, David Bercot explains how the popular understanding of Romans 9 is wrong. He shows how the key to understanding the passage is to see that it is not about God predestining people to salvation, but about God's faithfulness to his covenant people. This is a must-watch for anyone who wants to understand what Paul is really saying in Romans 9.
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Romans Does Not Mean What You think It means! Romans #9 - David Bercot
Today’s video is about theology. Paul’s whole discussion throughout Romans is about Jews and Gentiles, not about Christians who believe Christ requires works or obedience from His followers.
00:00 Intro
00:32 Greetings
00:52 Review
02:20 Luter Changed the opponent from a Jew to a Christians
03:07 Paul's discussion is about Jews and Gentiles
03:24 Central Passage for the Message Romans 3;20
04:05 Romans 3;20
04:26 Two basic Assertions
04:58 No humans can be justified by works
06:34 God expected the Jews to Obey the Law
07:55 How Martin Luther Changed This
08:39 Thirteen Statutes Twelve Apostles and Luther
09:23 The Law vs. Christ, not Works vs. Faith
09:40 Fallacy of Equivocation
13:13 Works do matter
13:35 Romans 2;6
15:16 Declared Righteous By works James 2;24
17:34 Galatians 2;12-16
19:30 The works of obeying Jesus play a role in our salvation
20:20 Gal 3;27-28
22:08 By the law is the knowledge of sin
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I always hit the like button first, and then I watch because I know that'll see a really good content.
That is SO funny! I do the same thing ;-)
@@johnplain627 -yes Ive got it. I ended up getting loads of his books after coming across his one on salvation..
Ive long wished that we had what the very first chistians believed.. ..i didnt know they existed until i came across david bercot...
..a bulb went on for me when I came across the armenian interpretation of scripture, that freed me up to disregard calvins teachings... ..up to that point (about 10 years) i thought there was something wrong with me.
Jacob armenius was trained in the highest tennants of calvanism at the manin geneva university. He changed his thinking after being challenged by a lay person.. and started to take the opposite stance...
..thats one of the reasons I love wesley's sermons and teachings, i think he brings law and grace together very well as does Derek Prince in his foundation series...
this is one of the greatest teachings I have ever heard. martin luther and augustine are the 2 greatest false teachers in church history. the protestant teaching of faith alone and "its IMPOSSIBLE to repent of sin and keep Jesus's teachings" that I was fed by the southern baptist and evangelical/reformed churches for 35 years was a lie. thank God I came to the truth 7-8 years ago. God bless you brother!.
How could we save ourselves?
@@caitlinsoliman1658 we do not save ourselves, the bible teaches we are saved by our belief/faith in christ and what he did on the cross., at the same time the bible also teaches that if we continue in sins we will be barred from heaven, it also teaches that if we dont feed the hungry, visit the sick, welcome immigrants, and visit prisinors that we will not enter heaven either. this does not fit in with "systimatic theology" such as reformed theology, calvinism, dispensationalism, etc. EVERYTHING the bible teaches is true, we cant use a set of bible verses to eliminate another set of bible verses. and while the bible clearly teaches we are saved by faith/belief it NOWHERE says we are saved by faith "ALONE" which is the doctrine of the reformed and baptist churches. the SAME lord Jesus that said " verily verily I say unto you he who believes in me has eternal life" also said that if we continue to be "workers of iniquity" we would be barred from heaven despite calling him lord.
@jamesb7777a I think it's recognized that faith is being contrasted to works of the Mosaic law. Faith is how we're obedient, not the law. We're saved by faith, obedience, and relationship with Christ. Luther was reacting to a church that was telling people they could buy their way to Heaven. You can't just judge these people, you shouldn't them at all, without understanding the religious tyranny they were opposing.
since making the above post I have REPENTED of my error after much more bible study. I totally reject my previous position, I now believe in faith ALONE salvation and being right with God. James 2:10 says " if we keep ALL of Gods laws but break just one we are guilty of ALL", and in galations paul says "by works of the law shall NO MAN be justified"....what is sin? the breaking of Gods law!. so by repenting of sin shall NO MAN be justified!, we are justified by faith ALONE in Jesus shed blood, he gives us HIS rightousness and he forgives us ALL our sins. to say we must believe in christ PLUS keep the law/repent of sin to be saved is heresy and the JUDAIZATION of christianity which paul condemned!. NOW.....is it Gods will and commandment for me to repent of sin and live a holy life??? YES!!!!!!......but NOT as a condition of salvation!. judaism, catholicism, eastern orthodox, and anabapists teach that we are saved by obeying Gods laws and repenting of sin PLUS faith in christ, this is heresy. ( Judaism rejects christ and says we are made right with God by doing our best to repent of sin). the reality is NO ONE alive has repented of ALL thier sins AND lives a 100% pure holy sinfree life!. AGAIN James 2:10 says "if we keep ALL of Gods laws but break ONE we are GUILTY of all"!. so I strive to repent of my sins and live a holy life but I NEVER EVER depend upon that for my salvation!, I ONLY depend upon the Lord Jesus Christ and HIS shed blood and rightousness to make me right with him.
@@jamesba-xd7xf well you have to factor in all the 'overcoming' verses. The same big external sins you got stoned to death for in the OT you have to overcome in the NT or you can be hurt by the 2nd death or have your name removed from the lambs book of life...
And Romans 8:13 says that if we dont put to death the misdeeds of the flesh by the Spirit we can die again...
"12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation-but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
So I believe we are saved by faith alone but its never alone because the greek word for faith & believe is pisteou which vines greek words bring out as does the amplified bible. See John 3:16 in the amplified - also according to DAvid Pawson this is in the present continuous tense.... the person who goes on trusting in, adhering to, relying on...
So we trust that Jesus paid the price for our sin on the cross and then we show that we trust him by doing what he says in His Word...
Saved by the right theology sounds like Gnosticism
It seems the first part of your RUclips Video Description is for a different Video - not this Video.
This makes the most sense to me of any description I've ever heard about the 'Works" Salvation argument. Thanks MUCH, Mr. Bercot!
This could change the whole Christian worldview once really understood and lived. But I guess there must be room for some to believe the lie, cause not everyone has the love towards the truth. Not everyone will love and obey God with all their heart.
Bless you brother David.
Romans starts with obedience to the faith,1:5, and ends with obedience to the faith,16:26.
And in the middle Paul writes:
But God be thanked,
that you were the servants of sin,
but you have obeyed
from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
What English version of the Septuagint do you recommend using?
@Jordan Rokey We typically use the Orthodox Study Bible. -Lynn
Then James is speaking to the Christians when he said "Faith without works is dead" .
I ask does this guy keep the Sabbath commandment # 4?
My experience is the reason most accept Agustin's argument is it abdicates their responsibility and places all of the responsibility on God. American's and most of the Western world are always looking to blame someone else for their sin.
Very helpful, brother David. I have struggled with the connection between works and faith, with the assumption that the only two alternatives were libertinism and a works-trip. We are called to do good works because they testify that we have real faith.
We're glad you found this helpful! An analogy I always find helpful is that being faithful to my wife requires both belief and action. -Lynn
An eyeopener! God bless you.
@Early Church Thanks for listening!
@@elijahmarie1130 - I think the link is faith in Jesus. In the Greek the word for faith and the word for believe is pisteou and a big part of its meaning according to Vines Greek/English dictionary is to trust... ...the amplified bible tends to bring this out...
So if you trust Jesus you will believe that he has paid the price for your sin on the cross but you will also show that you trust him by doing what he says... ...this trust (relationship) can take time to grow as it did for Abraham.
...there is a need to define what law are we talking about here... ....it seems to be talking about the whole of the mosaic law including the 10 commandments if you read Romans and Galations in context...
...however we are only NOT under law IF we are being led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is love because he is God and he will never lead us to do anything that is contrary to Jesus teachings in the NT.
So we can see how well we are being led by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8) by comparing how well we are obeying the NT and fulfilling the righeous requirement of the law which is to love God and people (Romans 8:4). All the law and the prophets hang on the first two commandments Jesus said (Matt 22:40).
I like the way Derek Prince puts it in his foundation series, 1993:
So the basic difference between law and grace is:
‘Law depends upon man’s own ability and works from without. Grace depends upon the miraculous operation of the Holy Spirit and works from within.’
My comment: - it still requires effort from us though.
AND
"For us to follow this pattern in our lives, first we must prayerfully study and apply every part of the New Testament’s teaching.
Second, we must continually acknowledge our moment-by-moment dependence on the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit." Derek Prince
What is the letter from the early church elders he speaks of here?
I think it is the first letter to the Corinthians from Clement of Rome (who was an elder of the church of Rome).
Good message. What I heard does adhere to the general message of scripture. I do have some disagreement though, but in the end I arrive at generally the same place in practice.
First let me say that I believe in giving a heavy critique to Luther. There were some areas where he went off the rails. But regarding the mosaic law, we can't neglect the fact that this also included the ten commandments and not only the ceremonial law. In fact, Paul goes on to say later, in chapter 7, that he had trouble with the commandment "thou shalt not covet", which was certainly upheld by Christ. It is this very law that Paul said we are released from. But the paradox is, we are released from that law so that we might fulfill it! That message is very clear through Romans, and I would say in Jesus as well.
I think Luther was on the right track when he was trying to make a law vs grace distinction, but then he went off the rails when he missed, "do we nullify the law by faith? Nay, but on the contrary, we uphold the law." If it had been only the ceremonial aspect then why would Paul have said we uphold it by faith? Or again, in chapter 6, "we have died to the law through the body of Christ... in order that we might bear fruit to God." The same passage, in chapter 7, tells us that sinful passions were aroused in us by the law. Why would we think this is talking merely about the ceremonial law? It can't be so because it's where "do not covet" comes in. But Luther also missed, in chapter 8, that the "Righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit." That is integral to the gift of salvation. Another interesting passage is in chapter 10, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe."
Now it seems to me that our faith needs to be a living faith that upholds the spirit of the law, showing that the law is written on our hearts. In other words, we are freed from the written law, which Paul calls the ministry of death in 2 Corinthians 3, and that was even the ten commandments "carved in stone". But the new covenant we are bound to, which is the law written on our hearts. This happens by a living faith. When we present our whole lives to God by the death and resurrection of Christ and live our life in obedience, we bear fruit unto eternal life, according to Romans chapter 6.
The question is, how do we live out such a faith, in holiness, and how are we lifted up by the Spirit in such a way that we walk in the newness of life, in such a way that is reflected even in our hearts as we do good works, and we shine with righteousness as being born of God in the process. I think the teaching of this series is trying to present this sort of thing, although interpreting things a little differently. That's why I appreciate it. I think Luther and Calvin said things that deserve heavy criticism, but I also want to add that they also said some things worth considering regarding the law. The caveat is their system as a whole had some wires crossed. I agree that works are included in salvation, but under grace so that we are still confident in the gift and can be assured in eternal life.
I know I skipped through Romans a bit so maybe he'll give an alternate interpretation to what I suggested.
Romans 3:9-20, of course, is quoting from Psalm 14:1-7. Paul teaches repeatedly in the book of Romans that living the law of Moses does not make a person "righteous". So my understanding is that Paul is quoting this OT verse to support that point. Right?
@Heber Frank My understanding is similar: you can't become righteous by simply fulfilling the requirements of the Law of Moses. But Jews and Gentiles alike could be righteous by following the spirit of the Law of Moses and by being faithful to God. Would you agree? -Lynn
Can you please explain to me and show me the verses in the Bible that talk about initial salvation with no works
@Patrick Kraus FTF Ministries Here are the ones I'm aware of: Rom 9:15-18, 11:5-6, Eph 2:8-9, 2 Tim 1:9, Titus 3:5
-Lynn
@@SoundFaithChannel these verses are showing that God is the one that made a way for us to be saved!!! It wasn't because of Any Good Works we did that he was forced to save us. But the Book of James says in James 2:21-24
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
@@pkraus777 The verse quoted in James about Abraham's faith being credited to him as righteousness came decades before the sacrifice of Isaac on the altar. So that declaration of God was almost like a prophecy to be fulfilled later. God says "you are such and such," Then later on we live that out. That is also the pattern in Titus 2 and Ephesians 2, and many other places.
@@collin501 but Abraham was doing acts or works of faith ever since God called him out of ur of the Chaldeans. by faith he left his father's house. leaving his father's house was an act or work of faith.
Plus Jesus said unless you repent You Too shall likewise perish! Repentance is an act or work of Faith as well. you turn from (stop practicing) your sins by trusting or having faith in God.
Faith without works is dead!!!
The just shall live by faith!!! And a faith that is not dead. You must have substance and evidence like Hebrews 11:1 explains and goes on to give much commentary on the people that were justified by their works of faith.
@@pkraus777 Keep in mind, every instance of Abraham's journey was first believed and then acted upon. Including leaving his father's house. The reason he acted was because he believed in what was being promised to him. If he didn't believe the word, he wouldn't have acted upon it. Also, repentance itself does not have any works initially, but then it bears fruit("bear fruit in keeping with repentance"). The whole framework of Romans 4 is that God justifies the ungodly when they have faith, so the fact that it says "ungodly" means that at that moment they do not have works that are the basis for that justification. The parallel is shown in Ro 4:17-22, that God said "I have made you the father of many nations" when he was not yet a father, and "God calls into existence things that do not exist." That is paralleled directly with our righteousness. God calls us righteous when our righteousness does not yet exist. We believe and then are made righteous, just as Abraham believed and then produced a son. The parallel is that when the declaration was made, regardless of his prior good works, he was not a father, and yet God declared him to be a father. That is the gift of righteousness. Then, as James 2 states, that faith by which he received the gift of righteousness was "perfected" by his deeds. That is, it became a full reality, so that his saving faith could be tested and approved and ready to be rewarded.
I’m wondering, as a citizen of the Kingdom of God through faith in Christ, is honestly whole heartedly trying to do good works the best he knows how, because not everyone is at the same level of knowledge. But doing the best with what he has but still kind of poor at it. Or say someone is still dealing with a few things of their flesh. Will he be kicked out the Kingdom of God? I hear right now in my head quite a few Jesus Christ scriptures in my head concerning this matter lol.
Hey, there is a list of sins in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, that Paul says that those practicing will not inherit the kingdom. Those things are a part of the old life, and I don't think slip ups will exclude us because God forgives when we confess. Also, God has the ability to deal with some of these things in the course of our lives, sometimes even judging us now that we might be saved later. However, 1 John 4:7-21 is a great guide towards being confident for the day of judgment. God loves us and loves our fellow brothers. When we allow God to stir this love up in us, or however that works, we live through Him and are born of Him, and then it is that love in us(for Him and for our brethren) which casts out the fear of judgment day. The question would be how you're doing with that. Love and mercy towards others makes the judgment less strict towards us.
@@collin501 thank you.
@@collin501 i like that. Also a big part of the meaning of faith & believe (same greek word - pisteou) means to trust... according to vines and the amplified bible... John 3:16 in the amplified... adhere to, trust in, rely on Jesus.
So we are saved by grace through faith, it is a gift.. We see Abrahams faith growing as he hears God and obeys Him. Abraham doesnt run around doing loads of good works, God simply brings things along and he grows in his faith and trust in Gods goodness over time... until he can trust God with the person he loves the most in the whole world...
Good talk Brother. Scripture says Christ came to save us from our sins. Once His blood cleansed our sins off our conscience we are set free from our sins and now can live righteous and holy lives so we can enter heaven on the last day.
Justify means to be considered good.
TWO PHASES OF SALVATION:
1ST ONE
σωζω saved or rescued out of Satan's "Egyptian" slavery to follow our fleshly lusts that produces sin and death.
2ND ONE
σωζω saved or rescued from the wrath God by following and imitating Jesus to crucify the fleshly lusts, bringing God glory by conquering Satan. and walking by the Spirit in love, joy, peace, self control and all virtue.
True salvation creates godly works. There r not two parts to salvation.
@@antoniaschiffer4958 - well its not all automatic otherwise James wouldnt have to say that anyone who knows the good they should do and doesnt do it, sins...
we would do it automatically if being born again completely changed us so that we automatically do whats right...
but even galations says that the flesh wars against the Spirit...
I want to add a few more points here. first, THANK you for telling us where this "its impossible to keep Gods commandments and God knew that" came from...agustine. next when ever I hear anyone preach on jesus and the rich young ruler I hear 100% of the time..."well, Jesus was just testing the rich young ruler and Jesus was being hyperbolic, he really didnt mean the rich young ruler had to give up his riches to enter heaven, he really was teaching it was impossible to follow Gods commandments and he wanted the rich young ruler to despair of his inability to obey jesus "........NO!, Jesus said what he meant and meant what he said!. Jesus told him he could enter heaven IF he kept the commandments AND gave up his riches ( money idolatry)....he was required to do those 2 works to enter heaven, he already had faith in christ but no works....THEN in acts a jailer asks the apositles " what must I do to be saved"....they said " BELIEVE on the lord Jesus christ" ( faith). so whose example is correct....Jesus or the apositles? BOTH!.....faith AND works are required.. in those 2 examples of " what must I do to be saved"? we are given "believe" ( the jailer) and " keep the commandments and repent of your sins ( works)". . BOTH are required for salvation. martin luther and the reformers taught that ONLY faith is required, a heresy as james 2:24 points out. "we are justified by WORKS and NOT by faith ALONE". yet when I teach and debate this on youtube/the internet/churches Im called a heretic !. what Ive found out is this.....all my life I havent been taught the bible but the teachings of martin luther and the reformers and augustine!. from what I understand most bible collages dont teach the bible but church history.....and are taught to teach what preachers from 300-1900 taught and ignore what the bible taught!.
Well I agree mostly with you but from what I know most Bible colleges/seminaries DON'T teach the Right church history. Bc if they did then the students would see that NO early church Fathers/Teachers believed that divorce broke the marital Covenant or that someone who remarried after said divorce wasn't in constant adultery. Those false teachings came during the reformation and crept into the modern church today. And it's NO ACCIDENT. Satan is behind it all
So then how do interpret Ephesians 2:8-10? See, I believe in James 2:24 the distinction was made between a LIVE faith and a DEAD faith. A living faith will henceforth produce good works. However, a dead faith cannot produce good works. This scripture aligns with the scripture about a good tree that bears good fruit and a bad tree that bears bad fruit. Having a genuine faith comes beforehand and is the only thing that can produce good works. Works that are simply produced are not an indicator of a healthy and living faith. I’ve seen this within my own church many a time. God works faith in us through monergism and therefore any good works that we do are because he’s prepared us to do them from the beginning of time, I’m sure you know of this scripture as well. So my question is, how do you explain the scripture I gave you in Ephesians comparatively to your James 2:24 scripture? Yes, I understand you commented on this video a year ago but just humor me if you will.
@@GreenGoblin107 Greengoblin, since making the above post I have REPENTED of my error after much more bible study. I totally reject my previous position, I now believe in faith ALONE salvation and being right with God. James 2:10 says " if we keep ALL of Gods laws but break just one we are guilty of ALL", and in galations paul says "by works of the law shall NO MAN be justified"....what is sin? the breaking of Gods law!. so by repenting of sin shall NO MAN be justified!, we are justified by faith ALONE in Jesus shed blood, he gives us HIS rightousness and he forgives us ALL our sins. to say we must believe in christ PLUS keep the law/repent of sin to be saved is heresy and the JUDAIZATION of christianity which paul condemned!. NOW.....is it Gods will and commandment for me to repent of sin and live a holy life??? YES!!!!!!......but NOT as a condition of salvation!. judaism, catholicism, eastern orthodox, and anabapists teach that we are saved by obeying Gods laws and repenting of sin PLUS faith in christ, this is heresy. ( Judaism rejects christ and says we are made right with God by doing our best to repent of sin). the reality is NO ONE alive has repented of ALL thier sins AND lives a 100% pure holy sinfree life!. AGAIN James 2:10 says "if we keep ALL of Gods laws but break ONE we are GUILTY of all"!. so I strive to repent of my sins and live a holy life but I NEVER EVER depend upon that for my salvation!, I ONLY depend upon the Lord Jesus Christ and HIS shed blood and rightousness to make me right with him.
@@GreenGoblin107 Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. Saved by grace, through faith
James 2:23 And [so] the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed in (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on) God, and this was accounted to him as righteousness (as conformity to God's will in thought and deed), and he was called God's friend.
You see that a man is justified (pronounced righteous before God) through what he does and not alone through faith [through works of obedience as well as by what he believes]. Amplified bible
I think the two come together because a big part of the meaning of faith is trust. The word for faith and believe in the greak is Pisteou. According to vines and the amplified this means to trust...
You faith/trust is dead if you dont do what Gods Word says you should. Whether that is leaving your home for another country or feeding the poor. If we believe God loves us and wants what is best for us we will do what he says. to the extent we dont, our faith and trust in God is dead...
....this squares the circle for me... I went to the drawing board with God to relook at this some years ago after going to 'Word Alive' the youth arm of Spring Harvest festival in the UK.
Also that we have to remain 'IN' Christ. Look at the 'IN' Christ scriptures, they are very interesting. We stay 'IN' Christ through obedience and keeping short accounts by confessing our sin. John 15 makes it clear you can come out of Christ through lack of obedience...
@@JuliexSteadman The very scripture you used in James 2:23 proves that through faith alone it was counted as righteousness. In verse 22 it says ”You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;“
James 2:22 ESV
This proves that faith accompanied the works but he was accounted righteousness at the moment he believed. It’s quite simple which is why I love it and it makes sense. Any and all good works we do are prepared beforehand for us. That’s why we can’t take any credit for them. So because of this, the only thing we have to do is believe. Which God also brings about in us through a doctrine called monergism which I mentioned previously. ”For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.“
Ephesians 2:10 ESV
Did I see that slide right at 28:34 , that Jesus changed the Sabbath and the dietary laws? I have to strongly disagree!
We can see that in Acts 15, 1 till 21 the same discussion had the Apostles, and we can find the answer in 19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
So here you can see there is a difference for the gentiles that came to Christ..
@@Road2Heaven123 It takes a pretty deep dive into the Bible to see that the modern Christian interpretation is WAY off, concerning the verses represented above. Usually, the misinterpretation happens as a result of not reading and understanding the verses before the quoted ones.
God's laws are love laws. The jews had very little love and that's why Moses had to come out with his laws.
People are judged according to their works and cast into the lake of fire. Works do not save. Christ does. If righteousness comes by the law, then Christ died for no reason. Paul believed the prophets and kept the law and was not saved. Why? No faith in Christ. Salvation is only in Christ, not in myself, not in my works, not in the church, only Christ.
Hebrews 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
@@SoundFaithChannel the obedience referred to in Hebrews, the gospel of John, and Romans is the obedience of faith, and/or believing the gospel. Hebrews 3:17-19, sinned in verse 17 is explained in verse 18 and 19 as unbelief. In Romans 10:16, Paul speaks of Israel's disobedience as unbelief, "But they have not all OBEYED the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has BELIEVED our report." The obedience of John 3:36 is explained in John 20:30-31 as believing "that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that BY BELIEVING (not by working as the Pharisees were doing), ye might have life through his name." I could cite many other statements of the apostles who declared that the obedience which is required by God for salvation is faith without works to his glory.
You see the word "obedience " and think it means "works" and it does in contexts related to Christian life, but not to salvation.
And by the way, my first response is biblically accurate and is the preaching of the apostles.
Is it interesting to you that I said nothing of my own words, and somehow you thought I was in opposition with you?
I never stated one way or another what I thought about your first statement.
Let's clarify our positions before jumping to conclusions.
Are you saying the obedience we need is only Believing?
Do you think we need to obey all the things that Jesus taught us?
Let me know what questions you have for us, and we will be glad to answer them.
Once we understand one another, we may be able to better have a meaningful discussion.
The Church is not against Christ, and actually, the Church is referred to as the body of Christ.
Blessings
@@SoundFaithChannel The video is very informative. But I'm confused when you say there are 2 types or states of salvation. Are you saying you believe in the OSAS or eternal security doctrine?
@@SoundFaithChannel to be saved from spiritual death in both time and eternity all we can do is believe on Jesus Christ. Works cannot save us from spiritual death. But to live the Christian life, works of obedience are required, and faith by itself is not enough.
I’ve heard someone say Jesus Christ said that so you will see that your a sinner friends.
I believe the Bible does teach we are saved by faith alone. But what is faith? I see the faith means to trust and OBEY!!!!
As much as we are saved unto good works, faith simply means to trust or believe. We often prove that we have been saved by our works but obedience would be a work.
@@ransche1 my Bible says that faith without works is a dead faith. In other words it isn't faith at all. A faith that doesn't produce fruit is a faith God rejects and will cut that unfruitful branch off and burn in the fire. Faith is not mere belief alone but a belief that turns into a life changed. Calvin and Luther did incredible harm to the gospel. They rightly rejected the perverted Roman Catholic views, but they went too far.
@@ransche1 Did you watch the video? 🤔
@@yoshkebenstadapandora1181 you said that your bible says that faith without works is a dead faith. And then you said “in other words”. You were then giving your opinion but not what the Bible says. That says nothing about salvation.
@@philarevolutionarywarriorp8295 I did watch the video. Very false teaching. Eph. 2:9 days that salvation is not by works. Period! It does not distinguish the law of Moses from a so called law of Jesus.
So how is a Christian saved?
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Romans 9:25-26
It is as he says also in Ho·se´a: “Those not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved ‘beloved’; 26 and in the place where it was said to them, ‘YOU are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”
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[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses ---->> ‘YOU are not my people,’
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Now keep reading in Romans Chapter 9:
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Romans 9:27-28
Moreover, Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Although the number of the sons of Israel may be as the sand of the sea ** IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED ** For Jehovah will make an accounting on the earth, concluding it and cutting it short.”
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But hold on! Is this really about Jehovah's Witnesses?
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Consider this end time prophecy that can only be fulfilled by Jehovah's Witnesses:
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Isaiah 66:5
Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”
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[Name of person] is no longer one of JEHOVAH's Witnesses ---->> excluding YOU by reason of MY NAME
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What Jehovah said would happen at the time of the end, is really happening!
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The narrow gate really is narrow and cramped!
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If ur not an isrealite ur out plane n simple
Thank you for the comment, John. Is that found in Scripture?
I firmly believe Paul was not inspired by Jesus. We must believe in Jesus only, not Paul
Hi Franz, we would agree that Jesus is our salvation and our authority. However, Jesus sent us the apostles, including Paul, for a good reason. Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus did. We read the words of Jesus to understand how we should live, and the words of his apostles are in complete agreement with him. Many of Paul's teachings are very valuable in showing us how we should live as a church, because his mission was to set up churches and strengthen them. -Lynn
@@SoundFaithChannel ok, but everything needs to be tested by comparing it to Christ's words, not Paul's. Let us not forget Jesus told his followers to follow him and he never told his followers about something like "grace" 😎
I agree, Christ's words are the standard for who God is. But Christ gave us the apostles to strengthen and grow the church, so their words are also authoritative, because they get their authority from Jesus himself. (Though if we can read Jesus' words directly, that's even better!) I also agree with you that what many people mean by "grace" is something very different from what is important for Christians; however, that's because their view of "grace" differs from what the apostles taught. To them, grace was not a theological word that meant that God draws people irresistibly; they used it for God's favor (the literal meaning of the Greek word) to us. God shows us favor or blessing by admitting us into his Kingdom and saving us on the last day. He showed favor and mercy by sending his son to redeem us. So I love the word "grace," because it describes God's love for us in Christ. -(Mr.) Lynn
@@SoundFaithChannel Do not forget that Constantine constantly altered the scriptures. He removed the Book of Enoch.
Paul doesnt contradict... ..i think the key chapter is ch8 of Romans... ...those who are led by the Spirit who is love because he is God are not under law, any law I would say (but you are still under law IF you are NOT being led by the Spirit) . However the Holy Spirit will not contradict anything in the NT so if you ARE being led by Him you will fullfill the righteous requirement of the law !! (Rom 8:4) which is to love God and people... ALL the law and the prophets hang on the two commands to love God and people... Matt 22:40
In Matthew 5 Jesus actually takes the 10 commandments and makes them broader and deaper and a matter of the heart. To have a heart change we need to be born again and then to walk in love (led by the Spirit) Matt 5 ff is telling us what that looks like...
Romans 8:11-12 goes onto say that we must put to death the misdeeds of the flesh by the Holy Spirit otherwise we can die again..
I think its also helpful to realise that both the words for faith and believe in the Greek are pisteou which according to vines means to trust...
So a person shows that they trust Jesus both by believing what he did on the cross for them and by doing what he says...
..that also helps to bring Ephesians 2:8, saved by grace through faith into the frame
White eye lies .