What the Early Christians Believed About the Atonement
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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Christ's atoning death on behalf of mankind is one of the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith. But exactly how did Christ's death open the way of salvation to mankind? Is His righteousness imputed to Christians who live godless lives? Here's a thorough discussion of what the early Christians believed on these topics.
Every time I watch one of your videos I want to reread my whole bible from start. Many of these thoughts were always in my mind, but I couldn't really put them together. Your messages are a huge blessing, I pray for you David.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for restoring my faith in the Father. The common teaching on the atonement is something that has always troubled me. For if justice truly could be served by such an arbitrary act of appeasement, then why shouldn't our legal system just snatch random people off the street to pay for any unsolved crimes? The original view makes so much more sense to me and is in better keeping with God's nature as taught in the rest of Scripture. Wonderful!
So: God freely and unconditionally forgave (as early Christians believe) the debt, instead of paying it off, as modern Christianity teaches, with Christ's crucifixion. And God paid the debt of humanity to the devil by giving the devil his Son's life.
Listeners might skip to the last three minutes to hear an excellent summary, then follow the entire fascinating discussion afterwards.
Penal substitution atonement theory had me close to leaving the faith. I turned into a very depressed person who thought that God was a monster and i had no love only fear and i projected that on many other people. I also believe it lead alot of people away from God who were ready to otherwise hear the true beauty of the gospel. Calvinism and PSA are in my opinion the most heretical doctrines in existence created by man through carnal control and fear.
This is an awesome Channel. Thank you! This work is amazing.
LOVEEEE this!
I'm a deep studier like yoursef and was surprised but not surprised that you would have watched this.
I think you make great points here. I am still assessing what it is that I believe. I have to confess that it's difficult to wrap my head around it because I do have a penal substitutionary atonement (PSA) presupposition and much of the differences in views are a fine line. However, I think some of the arguments that were made against PSA seemed to separate it from the belief in the sanctifying work of the Spirit, a doctrine that most Christians do not deny (for example in 38:30, you essentially argued God's pouring his wrath on Jesus does nothing for the life of the Christian apart from giving us a right legal standing with God). I can still believe this and also believe in the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, who indwells the one who believes in Jesus's PSA.
Perhaps I missed your explanation, but when scripture states Mt 26:28 (Jesus) "for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for the forgiveness of sins" and Acts 10:43 "Of him all the prophets bear witness that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins". What does this mean? You said that , God doesn't require a payment to forgive sins, because this is not then forgiveness (as something is required ). God just forgives. So then why is Jesus's blood being poured out for the forgiveness of sins?
The passages I quoted, implies humanity did something wrong, therefore who did we wrong? If it was God, then the payment was then made to him. If it was the devil, then payment is made to the Devil. But this doesn't make any sense because we or/and Adam broke God's commandment not the devils. Infact we/adam followed the devil's will and not God's, so why would we be asking/needing forgiveness from the Devil.
Happy easter. Hope you answer because I'm genuinely seeking. Thanks.
readu100 before I answer your asks brother let me tell you about my life: 8 years ago I was on drugs and in/out of jail. One day someone came and prayed for me on the streets and a few months after I found myself in church. It was a nondenominational church with a Bible College and they gave me a scholarship to start that same August. In 2013 Graduated with a Bachelors degree. I started full time ministry in 2014 and was an Evangelist, outreach and youth pastor. About two years ago I began to question a couple of things I saw that don’t line up and I almost walked away from the faith. Studying the early church and the Bible side by side has opened my eyes to truth. It is true that the truth shall set you free and it did, my joy in the scriptures has been restored and I love to read more now than ever.
Now to your question both scriptures you ask about are great ones and if we don’t take the whole Bible on a subject we can fall into error fast. Was Christ our penal substitution or was He a ransom paying the price to reconcile us to the Father?
One word that is the key to understanding it all is remission, witch comes from the Greek word áphesis.
áphesis- “send away, forgive"- properly, "something sent away"; i.e. remission ("forgiveness"), releasing someone from obligation or debt.
Read these passages all together John 3:16, Ish 61:1, Luke 4:18, Romans 6:23 and then all of 1 Cor 15, 1 Peter 1:18-19.
You tell me what you come up with?
I concluded after reading this that, man was in sin, death was the penalty of that sin, the devil had the keys to death and the grave, God gave His only Son Jesus as a ransom to redeem mankind, in doing so God did three things:
1: Gave His son a ransom
2: Defeated the devil
3: Defeated death and the grave
It then goes on saying if we believe and receive it we are forgiven, right?
No it doesn’t even know that is part of it.I
It says we will live forever, see the problem wasn’t God’s forgiveness it was man’s sin that was the issue. In the garden God said if you eat of this fruit you will die. Wages if sin is death, that’s the issue not God forgiveness. God can not lie so, He made a way to get mankind back from the enemy and defeat sin and death. By God sending His son for us showed that He was able to forgive already.
Did Jesus come so, God could forgive our sins or to save us from our sins?
Jesus already showed us that forgiveness was already able to be received in Matthew 9:6, Mark 2:10 and Luke 5:24.
And in Matthew 18:11 says He came to save!
Saves:
Matthew 1:21 save from sin
Acts 16:31 will be saved
Romans 10:9-8 be saved
Titus 3:5 saved us
Titus 2:14 redeem us
Forgives:
Numbers 14:19-21 God forgave sins back in the Old Testament.
God always forgave but because He can’t lie the penalty remained and that was death.
In the Old Testament you did what God said and you were forgiven.
In the New Testament you do what God has said and you are forgiven.
Acts 10:43, Acts 2:38, Luke 24:47
(Believe in Jesus, be baptized and live Holy)
There is no more forgiveness through bulls and goats but, now our forgiveness is through Jesus. Who didn’t take our place but, who was a ransom for us.
Read all of Eph. 2 it sums it all up nicely!
Jesus came to save the World from their sins and restore mankind back to their relationship with God that Adam lost in the garden. In doing so the devil was defeated, Sin was defeated, the grave was defeated.
Leaving Christ victorious!
Personally this message has blessed my life. I have read and heard many other teaching on the topic, but this is definitely the most comprehensive and complete teaching on the subject I have heard so far. Although he is just stating the facts and not judging which model is right or wrong, I am so surprised this place has no comments trying to reject or rebut anything about this teaching. Be blessed.
Excellent teaching, sir!
I like the staircase analogy, that's applicable to so many scriptures!I'm revisiting all I've been taught over the years & finding truth in the early fathers teachings which differ very much vs what's accepted these days in so many respects. An very enlightening journey of discovery.
Thanks for all your work on this ;-)
So basically man did nothing wrong- we were just held bondage by Satan and God is helpless unless He pays the ransom. Satan is King-pin mob boss who holds God ransom because of a power struggle? Is Satan God’s rival? Did not God create angels, men and Satan? Did not God see what was going to happen before hand or is He helpless because of certain circumstances?
Hi, in the description it says study companion coming soon
Completely lost on the need for "an incarnation of a deity" which completely denies the man Christ Jesus.