Raven on Pro Wrestlers Humiliated & Buried in WWF
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- Опубликовано: 31 авг 2023
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Raven was known as Johnny Polo on-screen and began writing for WWF All-American & WWF Mania behind-the-scenes. Here, Raven explains why so many pro wrestlers got buried after signing to the company.
Instead of reaching stardom as many pro wrestlers had in their local territory, those gentlemen found themselves humiliated as jobbers and cast aside.
Of course the money was likely the best any of these territory stars made in the careers. We discusses cases like Rip Oliver (Portland), Wild Bill Irwin, Mike Shaw and others.
Enjoy this great clip from our legendary Raven 2009 shoot interview.
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I like what the Dynamite Kid said in his autobiography, "I don't think Vince has long term plans. He does whatever amuses him at the moment."
So true
He has SOME long term plans. For example, following the Attitude Era with the PG Era, to build a new fan base of 10-14 year olds. Sure, it alienated existing fans but like I said, it was a plan.
@@023achillesand those 10-14 year olds will grow and remain fans even after they eventually have kids, not a bad plan if you ask me!
@@360entertainment2 It's not a 'bad' plan. Those kids will watch as adults UNTIL the WWE goes into another PG era... I remember personally, I really enjoyed the Angle/Lesnar/Eddie Guerrero/Benoit years but it was impossible to watch the Cena/Orton/Triple H years that followed, for the same reason.
@azart61before the Attitude era it was even more PG than it is now….I have been watching this for 40 years or so..I am 43 now and start watching when I was a very young child. When I was a kid it was PG corny and we loved it lol. However Attitude Era was for me by far the best era since I’ve been watching.
Yes WWE ruined a lot of careers. Raven ain't lying
Made Austin Aries a commentator and fought 1 match against Neville that's it
But at the same time they booked many wrestlers the right way, that were misused in other promotions. That’s how it works, not verybody can be used the right way.
Lol easy to cherry pick mistakes over decades and decades of business.
Yes he is lying.
Wwe gave them careers. Have you ever started a job? Do you start at the best possible spot or do you need to prove yourself? These people got handed material, and didn’t try so their careers failed. Weird how that works lol
@@TheWillrocks51 💯
Almost all WCW and ECW talent too
Maxwell Jacob Friedman needs to stay away from the WWE because he's not homegrown talent.
@@josephimperatrice5552and stay in AEW😂
@@josephimperatrice5552 well I'm sure Triple H can set his pride aside because Vince ain't running WWE anymore
A few WCW exceptions...Booker T, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, Eddie G, and for a minute, they pumped up Billy Kidman for a bit too.
@@ericlavergne5764RVD
Put Dusty in Polka dots .. probably the most famous example
Dusty was over as hell though. He got huge pops and kids all loved him. Polka Dots didn't matter.
@@jollyjames30 Yeah i remember that as a kid myself , Dusty and Sapphire was HUGE
And putting his son in a diaper
@@jollyjames30yea it did. Made Dusty go from a tough SOB to a I don’t even know what you would call it, similar to what happened to Adrian Adonis, just ruined his character.
@@chrisbond6406
Adonis was something else, not just the gimmick issue. He was on a LOT of drugs during his WWF run apparently
Raven was a genious. He really was "old school".
What did raven do that was genius outside of angle in ECW 30 years ago?
@@TheWillrocks51he has an amazing mind for the sport
@@danielwilson9724 how so? He had one good angle in ECW 30 years ago. He has more stoppages in TNA due to showing up drunk than he has 2 star matches in his total career lol
@@TheWillrocks51 u need to research him more then cause he was cool with Shane McMahon and wrote alot of angles for WWF back in the day
@@danielwilson9724 no he didn’t. Which matches? I have the book WWE printed with every match listed and every producer and he’s nowhere in them. Which angle did he write. Share with me.
Also being cool with Shane doesn’t mean you have a great mind for the sport. Shane was doing truck loads of coke in the 90’s/00’s and so was raven. He had a great nose for coke
He's speaking nothing but facts
raven was Bray Wyatt before Bray wyatt.
Bray Wyatt's gimmick was a blend of Dan Spivey's gimmick and Raven's.
When I was a kid, all we had access to was the WWF because I was in NYC. But I used to read the wrestling magazines, so I knew who all the big stars were from all the territories. I remember when Terry Taylor came in, and I was thinking "this is gonna be great" because I knew he was a big star elsewhere. And, yeah, the red rooster. They also did nothing with Rick Martel, former awa champion. And so many others
Terry Taylor was amazing. I hated what the WWF did to him.
It was reported that Terry had a very ill wife and a son who was handicap. Terry needed a job very bad and Vince took advantage of that issue.
Sadly.
@@dannypowers4995surprisingly he still works for the WWE
And yet the red rooster has the authority in WWE that they credit john cena for having when he never did.
Simply put I hear he got a big job like "producer".
So sorry ppl, can't feel sorry for the red rooster, he got some power in the end..if I heard that correctly. A trade off.
Yep
What? The guy belonged in the minor leagues, "if he could've drew a dime, u don't think they'd of used him?" "So they made him a rooster."-Brain
Even guys like Steamboat and Kerry Von Erich were basically glorified job guys at the end of their runs.
💀 Gloried Job Guys! 😢
💀 Gloried Job Guys! 😢
Steamboat was an amazing talent but with growing back issues and more interests outside wrestling than inside. Kerry had the name and the body but he was missing a foot and a drug habit that was quickly getting out of control.
@FerretJohn no one knew at the time that he was missing a foot, and the drug issues ? Many guys like bret and such have said that they never noticed him out of it. Kerry was a top star anywhere he went but vince had to ruin him
Kerry was done by then anyway
Raven was buried himself and I hate that. Raven was something special dude. Quote the Raven nevermor
How so? I've heard over the years that he was his own biggest enemy.
@i_used_adblock_to_watch_this only for leaving wcw thats all. Raven was quite over in 2000 but WWF buried him. Didn't get enough spotlight
@@milesboustead2826how is he going to get the spotlight, when he's fucking up Everytime he shows up, he named a couple wrestlers that go buried, but didn't name the thousands that weren't, our didn't mention the WWF payed ECW's salary for year's so they wouldn't go out of business. Every company stole wrestlers from other promotions, just so that promotion couldn't have them, and I didn't hear him whine about the millions WWF paid him.
In retrospect, I do wish WCW would have treated Raven and the flock a little better. By that, I mean they could have slowly built them up to have a feud with the NWO. I know Raven was not on Hogans level when it comes to star power, but that is the beauty of wrestling when done right. Especially at that stage of Hogans career, he could have been a star maker. Don't treat Raven and the flock like a joke and even as heel vs heel, there would have been an insane pop if after months of NWO running roughshod over WCW, one night the flock decides to stand up against them. It didn't have to be on behalf of WCW, there are many different stories they could have used, but just build Raven up and the initial face off, with him and Hogan definitely would have been electric. Part of the reason Goldberg became so huge was beating Hogan because it just doesn't happen like that. It didn't work as well for Luger and Sting because they had already had lengthy careers by then and fans knew they couldn't be the top guy, but Goldberg getting that W over Hogan was part of his story. Granted it was too soon for the long term, but hard to argue it wasn't a good move overall as far as it affected perception of Goldberg. That is how stars were made for most of wrestling history even when fans try to reject a guy, it still is how to do it. Roman Reigns wasn't ready, but by the time he was, fact is, he beat Cena. Clean. It matters in the long run. Winning and losing doesn't necessarily matter, but it does if it's memorable, and if the guy that loses is going to be a star, he has to beat the guy soon enough that the loss is remembered alongside the win. Like, the loss can't be discussed without having to bring up the win. It is why Ultimate Warrior also is regarded by casual fans so highly. He beat Hogan, and by the time Hogan beat Warrior, it was way too long after, as far as what people remember. Goldberg has the same cache with casual fans, too.
@@HamSandwich-xk3om you read my mind dude
Even Sting, who was huge, never got the push he really deserved
Werd shoulda fought undertaker when streak was intact
He was pushing 60.
So you think they should have brought in a guy in his 50s that had several chances over the years when he could have been pushed and been successful to come in and beat their top talent? How would that of been fair? They gave him respect by bringing him in at that age despite him never working for them and put him in the HOF and he was on some PPVs against top guy/s which means guys who worked there for years weren’t working or getting paid those nights, sounds ridiculous to me that anyone thinks he deserved more…. I mean he got pretty badly injured from a move that a younger guy likely wouldn’t have been hurt from which pretty much proves he shouldn’t have been there.
Yea if sting would've came in anytime from the 80s to 2000s yea I agree he would've deserved a push. But to come in at 50 something you can't expect no main event pushes. Sting was my favorite as a kid too
Sting would never have been used the right way in WWE and he knew it. That’s why he didn’t go when WCW got purchased by WWE. I’m not sure why he went later in his career unless it was for the money.
Raven is probably one of the greatest minds that was in wrestling
Greatest minds? According to who?
That is one thing I never understood about Vince was the pettiness with taking most stars from other places and not using them correctly. If I am a promoter and I want my talent to sellout arenas to the point where people are getting turned away. As well as people paying to see them on ppv, I want them to be what made them most successful. It makes them more $, makes me more $, and helps the promotion grow.
Rip the Crippler was a phenomenal talent in the ring and on the mic at Portland Wrestling. He and Playboy Buddy Rose did nothing but job in WWF. Roddy Piper, Dynamite Kid, Snuka, Billy Jack all did quality time in Portland, along with Raven of course.
The fact that Raven is not only alive..
But begam a lowkey legend..
Is now sober..
He sounds and looks amazing...
Good on you Raven. Im not only proud but i wanted to give you your flowers..
You were on par hardcore wise with
Mick Foley..
The Evenflow DDT, followed by the "F IT!" sitdown in the corner. Loved it
Jake the snake was the best
The same thing with Dusty Rhodes and Harley Race: gave Dusty the "Poke-a-Dot" gimmick,and gave Harley the "King" gimmick. Both gimmicks were absolute jokes!
Poke a dot
Even as a kid I could see this. Dusty Rhoades, the American Dream, a champion and they gave him polka dots. He wore it, he did it but Vince wasn't looking for others
My feelings exactly, Vince would make the stars of the smaller wrestling outfits offers that financially they couldn't turn down, and then either make fools out of them, or just plain put them on a shelf til they were forgotten
FINALLY SOMEONE WITH WHO TELLS IT LIKE IT IS,,,👍,,,,,YOU GO TO THE WWE TO DIE,,MOST WRESTLERS HAVE,,,
Stop yelling. And no, you don't go to WWE to die. You go to AEW to die.
And they still do this to this day sometimes. Wasn't even a couple years ago now they tried to destroy LA Knights career with the Max Dupri character.
Raven, you're 100% spot-on, dude! They embarrassed these fine Wrestlers...and why? Because Vince McMahon didn't like them, or something?
They didn't deserve to be treated like that!
The WWF is Vince's baby! So what better way to make sure everyone understands that than to degrade all the other talent from the other companies.
He did not like competition
Raven forgot himself Vince made him Johnny polo and as a manager lol
Exactly right
I love Raven ive meet him a couple of times ❤
I met Raven at a Horror convention. He was really cool. We talked at length about how we missed the territories. We did have a disagreement about David Von Erich. He didn't like DVE's mic work but I wanted to be a wrestler because of David Von Erich, who was supposed to win the NWA title from Ric Flair and reign as champion for a year.
These guys were good, good wrestlers too. Damn
"Somehow, Von Raschke returned."
Once they put The American Dream Dusty Rhodes in some Yellow Poka Dots I was through with them for awhile!
Loved Wild Bill Irwin. Hated what wwf did to him
Bill iwrin came up with the goon character
That makes 1 person who loved Bill Irwin.
They did the very same thing just a few years ago when AEW announced their start. They signed ALL of the top Indies, tied them up for multi year deals, and misused almost every single one of them. Nothing has changed
They misused raven. He should have gotten a bigger push in wwf. 👋
I hated how WCW used him. I'm hardly a booker, but I think Raven would have been better playing to the malevolent aspects he'd built in the character - as a cult leader if they wanted to go that way, and even as a singles contender. The "what about Raven" gimmick was really cringey.
I haven't seen what he did in ECW and after around '98 in WCW, one day I'll sit down and go through it.
Raven got a push in WWE. It's just that they renamed him Bray Wyatt when they did it.
🤣@@Fektthis
I liked the long hair, grunge like, rock~n~roll, Raven.
Be a good image today for a wrestler to use.
I recall as a kid seeing Raven and thinking.. he ain't that big, and the kids at the time sorta have that image.. maybe I could be a wrestler one day like him.
Then life smacked me around.
Yeah us title
Sting wanted no parts of that he finally took the check. But they never got the pop they would have 20 years earlier
Never got to see Sting vs. Taker. I would have plunked hard-earned cash down for that one.
I loved Raven as a kid
Quote the raven, never more
Or as Kelly Bundy would say
Quote the raven, Demi Moore 😂
Thanks Raven everything you said is True 😮
Agreed. The Bushwhackers were savages during their territory runs. The WWF turned them into a real life Sat morning cartoon. The One Man Gang was another, they turned him into a hipster. Maniac Matt Borne was turned into Frickin Doink the Clown. And potentially the greatest travesty of them all was when they tried to turn the Road Warriors PG friendly with that damned Rocko Puppet. Not to mention having them job to Vince's own knock off version of the Road Warriors, Demolition. Two guys who looked like they could've been the Road Warriors' dads. Vince lived for sh*tting on everyone elses talent. Besides Booker T, name one wrestler that survived the initial WWE buyout of WCW? Goldberg came through years later.
i mean Benoit and Eddie and from ECW RVD each got pushed to the top. it's unbelievable that they did too
@@slick_Ric Benoit and Eddie had left WCW a few years before the WCW acquisition and were considered "Vince's guys" by then. RVD is a great call out though. He, like Booker T, had to earn his spot. He was over with the fans the day he walked into the building, but it's widely known that several of the top guys (HBK/Kurt Angle) had issues with his unique style. He reportedly, worked very stiff and was considered a "potato" master. But yeah, the fact that he stayed over with the fans meant that they (The WWE) couldn't keep him stagnant for long.
To his credit Bourne actually made Doink work
😂 half and half
@@andyjohnD Bourne's evil Doink was awesome, it was after he was fired that they turned Doink kid friendly.
I remember watching Raven here in Portland at what used to be known as Portland Wrestling and he went by the name of Scotty the body. Those were the good days of wrestling back in the early 90’s
We feel his pain.
That's all the people need to know.
I was a fan of The Goon. He did make an appearance at the greatest Wrestlemania to date and they even released a Goon figure.
So 😂
Vince has the Highlander mentality……
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Like it or not Raven is right.. Look at how Vince McMahon treated WCW and ECW stars?? Look at how he treated Raven and before some fanboy come at me even people close to Vince McMahon have said Vince didn't know what to do with the Raven character cause he didn't get it.. People close to him said that..
One of my favorite wrestling talents. Raven.
THAT’S how Vince destroyed wresting!
And by breaking kayfab to the max
Red rooster was a hall of fame character. Best one of Terry career 😅
Terry Taylor, and the " polka dot" Dusty Rhodes stand out to me the most. They both deserved better. Now.....in defense of Vince in this regard; under the umbrella of the WWF, Undertaker,& Razor Ramon were conceived. Two career defining character moves.
There is no "Terry Taylor". It's the Red Rooster.
Killing the territories ruining the overall product in his company. Once you don't have true competition you don't have anyone to challenge you to be great. We see it now in the lousy product they have now
The King was actually an honor in the WWF. A big deal
mad respect for Scotty to be straightforward so these men can receive recognition for their unjust career fates and hopefully so people understand the big company right now got that way destroying as much as creating
Irwin loved the goon gimmick. He was a real life hockey goon.
Raven was a beast
On the mic
I miss old school wrestling and storytelling and kayfabe
This is why I love Raven but I never heard Raven talk before like this
Exactly. Vince is the most overrated booker ever. None of his ideas were good. He stole everything & then claimed credit. If he hadn't inherited Madison Square Garden relationships and the largest territory financially in the country as a third-generation promoter he would not have done anything.
I often wonder if the WWE is successful because of Vince or in spite of Vince. Just the fact that "wrestler" is a dirty word on his shows says a lot.
Hell yeah he is! Vince McMahon is just a great producer.. He knows how to build the show up with almost perfection but he just can't book for sh_,t..
pat patterson came up with most of what people liked in wwe vince just paid him to take the credit from him
Vince wouldn't in a million years call himself a booker or what he did, booking.
I don’t recall anyone having a “booker” title in wwf/e it’s always been writers, talent, and agents create storylines and matches and Vince had final approval.
Raven is right! Quite the Raven NEVERMORE
For a split second I thought that was the Fink throwing up money
Raven was alot smarter than most ever gave him credit for Dude is actually very smart ...
Rip Oliver was a great heel in Portland Wrestling. Raven worked as Scotty the body.
Thank you Raven.. We got the Truth
I read somewhere that Raven might actually be the smartest guy in wrestling.
So true!!!!! The Red Rooster……😵😵😵😵
AWA, WCW, & ECW for sure.
Vince McMahon made the late Matt Borne into "Doink The Clown" who was "Big Josh" when he was in NWA/WCW. Big Josh was the former NWA 6 Man Tag Team Champion in WCW.
And before raven was Johnny polo, he was called Scottie flamingo.
I agree
An I wish we still had the "territory wrestling."
I completely forgot about Terry Taylor and I remember being a huge fan when he was in the UWF. I don’t even remember him being in the WWF. That’s horrible.
Red Rooster was brilliant!
Man raven has one of the best minds in wrestling i loved him in ecw and wcw with the flock i wish wwf would have done something with him instead of just jobbing him out
This is so very true
If I close my eyes I couldn't tell if I was listening to Raven or Johnny Knoxville 😂
man vince is finally getting his due 😂😂😂 i hope they throw the book at em 😂😂😂
Thus is why I didn't feel bad about WCW almost putting WWF out of business because Vince has been doing that for years with other territories
Raven is my guy loved him in Wcw Awsome Cat
Let's not forget Dean Douglas! Shane was an awesome talent who could have been a huge star in WWF if he was given the right spot in the company and the right push. Vader also😢
That's the WWE way. They have top tier talent and only have them do midcard or curtain jerking spots
That’s why sting held out 🤔
Dude had a 150 IQ for real.
Then, now and forever
THAAAAANK YOU RAVEN
I never cared for Raven that much but I do respect him
If I didn’t see raven speaking, I would think I’m hearing Johnny Knoxville dropping knowledge about wrestling 🙃
Scotty the body !!!!
Definitely 100% right!
Flair was The only one to escape that ordeal.
Did he really?
Didnt like how they did barry windham in wwe and vader or ron simmon just to name a few
Raven I remember u as Scotty the body in Portland wrestling
Very true!!!
I loved raven he was so underrated
I thought Raven was Pretty Badass! Great Wrestler
Raven looks like the .01 of germs that Lysol doesn’t kill
ECW legend is right certain dudes in Vince's image gets pushed dudes who did good else where slim to none chance
Well said mr polo
You are so right sir,I always wondered what happened to Bill Irwen around here he went by doctor Bill Irwen
Did the same with DDP, scott hall, nash, sting, scott steiner, public enemy
I often think of how Dustin Rhodes career would have turned out if he was never given the Goldust gimmick. There's no way Vince didnt know these bad gimmicks would hurt the wrestlers that got stuck with them.
People think, "Mr. McMahon" is a gimmick.
Speaking of Bill Irwin. Has anyone every watch the interview with Hannibal and him? You will not be disappointed.
Like when they took Kerry Von Erich, made him the “Texas Tornado” for a few months, then fired him after WCCW died.
AKA Johnny Polo
Sad thing is....they still do this to this day. And great wrestlers will go thinking that their time has finally come to be a superstar. Aaaaand. Bushwackers, Coco B Ware. Saba Simba, Fantasmo, Beaver Cleavage, Shorty G, Gilberg, IRS, and you're a fukkn pirate.
And MAX DUPRI. He tried with him.
Terry bam bam Gordy was the executioner
Gordy was in a bad state by then..... Pretty sure they only brought him in to help the guy out with a few paydays.