Tesla would not have survived it's startup phase without CA's tech environment and progressively stricter zero emissions targets driving initial demand. Govt incentives do matter.
Another factor, negative equity is a massive issue right now. People who bought new or even used cars 2-3 years ago at high interest rates at lengthy terms on top of high prices due to the shortages are massively underwater on their vehicles as the used market has returned to some sanity. Right now one of the best ways to hide negative equity is to roll it into an EV lease. Because of manufacturer and government incentives taking so much money off the MSRP, there's tons of room in the loan to value ratio to put the negative equity into. Of course you won't be paying $300 a month on the lease but spreading out the negative equity over 36 monthly payments instead of one lump sum that many people can't afford is preferable a lot of the time. After those three years when the lease is up the negative equity will be gone. One would hope people would learn their mistake after being handed a once in a generation gift to dump their negative equity for relatively cheap, but knowing how Americans spend I doubt it.
Really? I guess I don't understand how that works. I only know a trade in is pretty worthless. I'm glad an codger ran into me and totaled my car, or I never would have bought my Volt. Now you can't buy a Volt.
Yeah, let me go out on a limb here. Tesla's sales have dipped because of his foray into politics. In business we have a saying, "Don't insult your customers". Actually, we don't say that. It's common sense. You don't tell advertisers "Go fornicate yourself" repeatedly. Nor should you basically act in a way anathema to your primary constituent--the tree-hugging liberal who is willing to pay exorbitant prices for questionable technology in order to virtue signal or project an image of wealth. Bubba and Skeeter aren't buying your Cybertrucks. It's Brad and Chalmer. Tesla will make money in the service economy for existing vehicles but new sales are going to remain low and lose ground against their competitors. The soy latte types will be buying Rivians from now on, not Teslas. But Elon doesn't care. He is pivoting to SpaceX with his newfound power and ability to control contract awards. And StarLink isn't going away any time soon. Tesla is going to weaken and then implode within 5-10 years.
Tesla gives no.attention to the environment (Berlin Tesla Gigaplant protests) and sends hundreds of millions of $ to fascist far right parties (AfD - new Nazi party of Germany, also in to parties in France, to the Trump party in the USA). Argue politics as you want, but cannot deny that driving a Tesla is now a political statement that gets you the middle finger and hatred from large segments of population in many countries. Bring on the Chinese EVs!
Almost all of the EV buyers are the liberal Progressive that now are skipping Tesla completely and heading to GM, Mercedes, Porsche or Hyundai branded EVs!
I can still get OEM body parts for a Ford Model T or a Citroen 2CV, but not for a Tesla. Saw a story the other day about a fellow who bought a Lyric to use as a luxury limousine and can't get a replacement for the damaged front "bumper." My Toyota Camry hybrid will, barring a bad crash, probably last longer than my ability to drive safely. Gas prices are effectively half or a third of what they were in 1968 (after adjusting for inflation and improved fuel economy).
It is interesting to see how Americans view EVs. The unquestioning assumption that Chinese EVs are cheap because of subsidies not because BYD has been building Batteries for 30 years ago, cars for 22 years and built the first mass-produced plug-in hybrid car in the world in 2008, and sedan all-electric 2009. Tesla built a luxury sedan in 2012 and a non-luxury car in 2017. Also ignoring that China is the largest car market in the world 2x the size of the US and 4x the size of EV sales. So Chinese companies have 2x economies of scale and 2x the experience as American companies. Then goes on to talk about the $7.5k subsidy from the US government.
The issue with those assumptions is that there is truth in that assumption. To be clear China has some technological advantages, although they are dwindling because of South Korean and European and American manufacturers making strides, even if they have difficulty along the way.
Overall my impression is that Tesla's problems (aside from China doing it cheaper and better) is that it seems to be a business based on an inappropriate technology in that thousands of lithium-ion cells combined in battery packs need expensive cooling systems and that they do not work well in cold weather. ps Is that Vistra fire still burning?
Having Trump and Musk say those tax credits are going away tells me people just don't want EV and they are saying this to make people buy before the "good deals" are gone. I think China beat us to the punch with EVs on the road I believe they are 50% plus now. Here in the US we love our big trucks and if gas prices go down we will not get an EV.
"those tax credits are going away tells me that people don't want EVs". This statement doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The credits going away means that there is a change of who has the power in Washington DC.
@@unconventionalideas5683 Yup. Trump was able to get gas prices to go down by crashing the economy and getting oil to less than $0 / barrel. That's not something to look forward to happening again.
You say competition is good, so what do you think about more competition from china and letting chinese EV makers onto the US market? Is competition still good in your eyes?
Common sense tells me that Trump will make things very hard for everything Chinese especially EV's. Tariffs will be crushing, and EV tax credits will quickly end. In the US, hybrids will rule the car market with EV growth mostly governed by the growth of charging infrastructure.
I don't believe it will work in the US. If it can be done at all, maybe we will get significant number of EVs after everywhere else in the world has them. Maybe we''ll buy Chinese EV's someday in the distant future., if China hasn't given up by then. We need to go back to mostly public transit. All people (and the government) are going to be poorer, the population will continue to grow. There will not be space or money for cars, garages, and all the infrastructure cars need, including insurance and fuel. I like my plug-in hybrid + solar panels. Only buy gas for long trips. Glad I got it before GM discontinued them. American car makers won't do it. They'll continue to make a killing on large gas models for years to come then slowly go out of business. I hope the H fuel cells work out.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. The increased EV sales by GM and Ford are because the direct to buyer sales aren’t working and those units are ending up at the dealership which shows as a sale. If you go look online, you’ll see the dealerships are full of those EV‘s. At some point in the near future, they will be great for leases to offset the carbon credits that the manufacturers will get for them so they won’t lose as much money but saying that Tesla sales are down is false. Tesla has three of the top five positions for EV Sales,. I hope you get some air on your walk because I think your brain is suffocating.
Tesla would not have survived it's startup phase without CA's tech environment and progressively stricter zero emissions targets driving initial demand. Govt incentives do matter.
Another factor, negative equity is a massive issue right now.
People who bought new or even used cars 2-3 years ago at high interest rates at lengthy terms on top of high prices due to the shortages are massively underwater on their vehicles as the used market has returned to some sanity. Right now one of the best ways to hide negative equity is to roll it into an EV lease. Because of manufacturer and government incentives taking so much money off the MSRP, there's tons of room in the loan to value ratio to put the negative equity into. Of course you won't be paying $300 a month on the lease but spreading out the negative equity over 36 monthly payments instead of one lump sum that many people can't afford is preferable a lot of the time. After those three years when the lease is up the negative equity will be gone.
One would hope people would learn their mistake after being handed a once in a generation gift to dump their negative equity for relatively cheap, but knowing how Americans spend I doubt it.
Really? I guess I don't understand how that works. I only know a trade in is pretty worthless. I'm glad an codger ran into me and totaled my car, or I never would have bought my Volt. Now you can't buy a Volt.
Yeah, let me go out on a limb here. Tesla's sales have dipped because of his foray into politics. In business we have a saying, "Don't insult your customers". Actually, we don't say that. It's common sense. You don't tell advertisers "Go fornicate yourself" repeatedly. Nor should you basically act in a way anathema to your primary constituent--the tree-hugging liberal who is willing to pay exorbitant prices for questionable technology in order to virtue signal or project an image of wealth. Bubba and Skeeter aren't buying your Cybertrucks. It's Brad and Chalmer. Tesla will make money in the service economy for existing vehicles but new sales are going to remain low and lose ground against their competitors. The soy latte types will be buying Rivians from now on, not Teslas. But Elon doesn't care. He is pivoting to SpaceX with his newfound power and ability to control contract awards. And StarLink isn't going away any time soon. Tesla is going to weaken and then implode within 5-10 years.
Tesla gives no.attention to the environment (Berlin Tesla Gigaplant protests) and sends hundreds of millions of $ to fascist far right parties (AfD - new Nazi party of Germany, also in to parties in France, to the Trump party in the USA). Argue politics as you want, but cannot deny that driving a Tesla is now a political statement that gets you the middle finger and hatred from large segments of population in many countries. Bring on the Chinese EVs!
Almost all of the EV buyers are the liberal Progressive that now are skipping Tesla completely and heading to GM, Mercedes, Porsche or Hyundai branded EVs!
Absolutely.. Tesla is going to implode
Tesla is stil the best. go buy one. donte get a knockoff
I bought my Bolt because it was cheap to own and drive and meets my needs very nicely. Politically I'm a Blue Dog Democrat.
Ford also...
@@bobbobbinson1841 BYD is now the best and far less expensive
People better increase their spending quickly, because tariffs will make prices for products across the board rise.
I can still get OEM body parts for a Ford Model T or a Citroen 2CV, but not for a Tesla. Saw a story the other day about a fellow who bought a Lyric to use as a luxury limousine and can't get a replacement for the damaged front "bumper." My Toyota Camry hybrid will, barring a bad crash, probably last longer than my ability to drive safely. Gas prices are effectively half or a third of what they were in 1968 (after adjusting for inflation and improved fuel economy).
It is interesting to see how Americans view EVs. The unquestioning assumption that Chinese EVs are cheap because of subsidies not because BYD has been building Batteries for 30 years ago, cars for 22 years and built the first mass-produced plug-in hybrid car in the world in 2008, and sedan all-electric 2009. Tesla built a luxury sedan in 2012 and a non-luxury car in 2017. Also ignoring that China is the largest car market in the world 2x the size of the US and 4x the size of EV sales. So Chinese companies have 2x economies of scale and 2x the experience as American companies. Then goes on to talk about the $7.5k subsidy from the US government.
The issue with those assumptions is that there is truth in that assumption. To be clear China has some technological advantages, although they are dwindling because of South Korean and European and American manufacturers making strides, even if they have difficulty along the way.
I've been driving an EV for a while. Get one with an NACS connector. Road trips are much easier.
Overall my impression is that Tesla's problems (aside from China doing it cheaper and better) is that it seems to be a business based on an inappropriate technology in that thousands of lithium-ion cells combined in battery packs need expensive cooling systems and that they do not work well in cold weather. ps Is that Vistra fire still burning?
Having Trump and Musk say those tax credits are going away tells me people just don't want EV and they are saying this to make people buy before the "good deals" are gone. I think China beat us to the punch with EVs on the road I believe they are 50% plus now. Here in the US we love our big trucks and if gas prices go down we will not get an EV.
"those tax credits are going away tells me that people don't want EVs". This statement doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The credits going away means that there is a change of who has the power in Washington DC.
Gas prices cannot go down too much because oil prices have much less room to fall before the oil industry reaches financial disaster.
@@unconventionalideas5683 Yup. Trump was able to get gas prices to go down by crashing the economy and getting oil to less than $0 / barrel. That's not something to look forward to happening again.
You say competition is good, so what do you think about more competition from china and letting chinese EV makers onto the US market? Is competition still good in your eyes?
Common sense tells me that Trump will make things very hard for everything Chinese especially EV's. Tariffs will be crushing, and EV tax credits will quickly end. In the US, hybrids will rule the car market with EV growth mostly governed by the growth of charging infrastructure.
Except he invited President Xi to his inaugural. He'll sell us out for a Trump hotel in Shanghai and a handful of copyrights.
I don't believe it will work in the US. If it can be done at all, maybe we will get significant number of EVs after everywhere else in the world has them. Maybe we''ll buy Chinese EV's someday in the distant future., if China hasn't given up by then. We need to go back to mostly public transit. All people (and the government) are going to be poorer, the population will continue to grow. There will not be space or money for cars, garages, and all the infrastructure cars need, including insurance and fuel. I like my plug-in hybrid + solar panels. Only buy gas for long trips. Glad I got it before GM discontinued them. American car makers won't do it. They'll continue to make a killing on large gas models for years to come then slowly go out of business. I hope the H fuel cells work out.
You're insane if you think Tesla won't thrive under Trump given the relationship with Elon
You don’t know what you’re talking about. The increased EV sales by GM and Ford are because the direct to buyer sales aren’t working and those units are ending up at the dealership which shows as a sale. If you go look online, you’ll see the dealerships are full of those EV‘s. At some point in the near future, they will be great for leases to offset the carbon credits that the manufacturers will get for them so they won’t lose as much money but saying that Tesla sales are down is false. Tesla has three of the top five positions for EV Sales,. I hope you get some air on your walk because I think your brain is suffocating.
Tesla _did_ report a sales decline. Therefore, by Tesla's own admission, Tesla sales _are_ down.