Hello! It's me, the person you're running to the comments to yell at! I've changed the title of the video from "never" to "isn't happening our lifetime." I say essentially this exact line at 1:33 in the video, when I'm essentially stating the thesis of the video. To be clear, that is: "And yet, if you just excuse yourself from the hype for a hot minute, you’ll actually see we’re not actually anywhere close to full dive VR. In fact, we probably never will be -- at least not in our lifetime." Yes, the "never" is an exaggeration. Who knows what will happen in 3 million years! With this video, I'm not trying to predict the terminus of human invention, I'm simply stating that full dive VR is likely not happening in the next century, nor is it desirable, nor do most people want it, nor -- if it did happen -- would it be a good thing.
@@तंबाकूOP There just to much needed to be done after Technology isn’t all that old. Uploading a copy of a human mind to a data drive is hard enough. Imagine uploading a live human mind to the meta verse. Most people would end up dying do to shock, too many variables to account for
I love this subject buddy Human Connectome Project has copied and reuploaded memories in Alzheimer's patients theres a Prosthetic legs that is also proven to send senses to the brain people can tell the toe to calve apart tho its playing on these same signals also russia and china have people claiming tech that every country has shown interest in on this very matter so the argument not in our lifetime is a stretch when its clearly been happening for the past 30 years obama just finished it and now with a medical and scientific stander who are you to say we cant accomplish this either ruclips.net/video/33bVGBkDy54/видео.html
Just sounds like you've seen clickbait is a gamble especially if your audience... maybe... doesn't consider you an authority on this subject b/c you don't work in any advanced technology companies. The rule of clickbait is people have to enjoy the content more than they are mad for being clickbaited. I don't see how you thought this would pass that threshold. And to be clear I didn't watch the vid. I don't need to hear theory from every youtuber or commenter in the world and I just wanted to make the above points about this being bad youtuber behavior despite what some from old media might say.
"A little over a century ago, the Wright Brothers had the first motorized flight. Next thing you know, we had jetliners, then Space Shuttles, until we landed on the Moon. THE MOON! And that was almost fifty years ago, so surely by now, we've explored two or three star systems, right? No? Is that because, once you get past a certain point, there are really enormous barriers to progress and we have to contend with reality? AI is the same way." - Ross W. Scott of Accursed Farms, "Ross Rants: Robot Jobs".
@@NessieNep The point is future is hard to predict. There are several technologies that may down the road lead to full dive vr. Or they may not. With rise of things like AI and Neuralink path opens to many more breaktroughs, or it turns out it was all overrated. I guess We will see. :P
What y'all yappin about guy literally said not happening in our lifetime not never ... Selective example doesn't disprove that.. Let me give some example like We will have Net Positive Fusion reactor in next 25 years... -- Nuclear Scientists every 10 years since the launch of first Nuclear Fission Reaction.
You're forgetting a major aspect of why Full dive vr would not likely happen. Lets imagine that SAO level of technology exists and you are able to change your avatar into anything. Now lets imagine your character has four arms instead of two. You can control them independently and you get sensory input from all four arms. It may be a little clumsy at first but as you continue to play with this character you develop muscle memory and now your extra pair of arms feels as natural to you as your other pair of arms. You've just developed neural pathways to control these two arms. What happens when the headset is taken off and your brain is looking for that extra pair of arms that is never there? Would you develop phantom limb syndrome? What happens to your motor skills if you spend your full dive VR as a dog on all fours running around?
@@wilddog73 as someone who trains in boxing and spars a lot. It's not the injuries during the fight that hurts..... its the recovery afterwards when adrenaline wears off.
That's fascinating to think about, though it would only prevent full-dive VR users from using avatars that are too different. Full-dive VR with humanoid avatar of regularly numbered limbs would still happen.
Its insane how 2 years ago when this video was released I would of agreed. So much can happen in just a short span of time. That's the beauty of AI advancements :)
man I agree with you, but I still dont believe it is going to happen... The closest we have of full dive technology is Elon Musk's neuralink, which is really a awesome technology, but it is still in a phase that we cant even consider an alpha... I do believe it will advance really fast, but lets be real, they wont use it to play video games. I am sure they will improve it to cure things such as blindness, people who got paraplegic during their lifetime (both of which are confirmed they are working on fixing), and a lot of other things. video games wont be prior (which is completely right, other people's life are way more precious than the full dive technology).
@@ggkhjdooenewiwsveus1918 correct me if im wrong but Im pretty sure that elom himself confirmed that after it comes out and is used for medical reasons that they might change it to be able to run games n stuff
@@okMopp I wont be able to answer you about that because I myself didnt read anything about it, for now I am busy with some stuff but when I get all things done I will search about it
Will this diminish my hope for such dreams: No Has it tempered my expectations: Yes Hype is good in moderation, but let's not get sucked into false projects who sell us on this in the next decade xc
As a human you have to believe to stay sane And I believe in having infinitly long life, full dive vr, a perfect ai that creates a perfect world for me and a private intergalactic spaceship one time in the future :D
I disagree. I’m more neutral on the subject. How would anyone know what kind of technology we will have in 50-100 years from now? It’s fine to make educated guesses but to say no as a definite answer is kinda absurd… there are many factors you aren’t taking into account.
Its a matter of when really. Humanity tends to do this. Scientists said Humanity can never achieve Heavier than Air flight but a few months later the entire world is blown by the Wright Brothers. Its a matter of when and it will happen in our lifetime.
@@Sinoxqq depends on your point of view and your own personal experiences with technology (and scifi ig lol), ... Me, for myself can only agree tho, the road until there is gonna be a hell lot of fun
I for one am looking forward to plugin in my brain into nuralink in the morning and have my brain solve computer vision problems for amazon for 10 hours so I can afford rent
Look I understand your using science to disprove this, but here's my issue with this approach and why I disagree with the overall message of this video, and that is the assumption that our knowledge grows on a linear timeline of a specific subject, meaning that we learn at a constant rate about a topic, which I disagree, my reasoning being this, we landed on the moon in 7/20/1969 at the time the only thing we were graphically capable of was basically a small grid of pixels, and 512 MB of storage would take up about an entire checkout lane in a superstore, now a-days we can literally hold millions of px in our hands and hold well over 8TB in a external harddrive, we don't grow in knowledge at a constant rate but rather at an exponential rate and I believe that the point of diminishing returns on this curve is full-dive technology. To say that because our current knowledge of science disproves something thus it must not be true/possible (even if that is to say only in our lifetime)is to go against the purpose of science itself, the whole point of laws and theories is to disprove and revise them till perfection which because of the human limit isn't possible.
This is true in VR too. Started off as a panoramic view with no interactions, then a few years later came the VR set that everyone was fascinated by. Later on, the omnidirectional treadmill that allows you to travel in VR without moving IRL as well as as a vest that detects if sensations in VR and sends vibrations through it. Additionally, Half-Life Alyx came out and was groundbreaking
Exactly. A computer in 1970 literally had the RAM of 1 Kbit, and the computers were the size of mini libraries back then. 40 years later we had computers that are thousands of times more powerful and can fit in our pockets. And now our phones are literally more powerful than the average PCs of like, 2008-2010. It's important to stress that technology like full dive is not coming soon, and nobody should expect it to just appear out of nowhere, but I think it's a little foolish to believe stuff like this is coming never in our lifetimes (which can be up to 90 or so years for some viewers). We are really bad at predicting the future in general. So much we have predicted in the past has either happened way sooner and developed way better than some thought, while other things are not even close to being invented like some have predicted. Not to mention there's always things that come out of nowhere: both bumps that slow down progress and stuff that makes something a reality a decade earlier than expected.
yeah our growth in knowledge is not linear, its actually dropping on a individual basis and that very fast... xD so before we get full dive we return to caveman
You don't even need to get that in the weeds about it. Even though it's not equivalent to moors law exactly we're still living in a time where we're seeing more advancements every year than we saw in the whole of the 1800s. We went from a time where we spent thousands of years walking and then thousands of years riding (some of us at least), to having trains, cars and planes all invented within a 100 year period. Assuming that keeps up at even half pace the world is probably going to look radically different in 30 years let alone 100. And that's all ignoring the occasional society-altering tech that no one saw coming.
Doesn't change the fact the technology currently being researched isn't even for games. After full dive vr is possible it will take decades for an actual good game to be created.
give it 20-40 years to kick off. Might not be Matrix level of sophistication, but its coming in our lifetime, wethere for somebody born in the new generation of 2021 onward, or somebody born 20 years ago or 40 years ago. Stay healthy, and wait to see it all unfold and more!
Maybe you are right. I still think its gonna happen in our lifetimes. At the elast we will be seeing every little baby step towards all that stuff. Might not get holodecks, which is unfortunate, but the next 40 years will be interesting if we dont annihilate ourselves beforehand. BE well ^
I feel like something critical you're missing is how technology advances. Its rate is not linear, and even more rarely consistent. 100 years ago, computers did not exist. Fifty years ago, a supercomputer that makes our phones look like magic took up an entire room. Twenty years ago, an 8 mb memory card was considered a standard, and now, if you don't have AT LEAST a terabyte of storage, it's borderline unusable. Technology's growth is extremely exponential. It's like rolling a snowball down a hill. Snowball is technology, the hill is time. At first, it's slow, and prone to getting stuck on denser patches of snow. But as it rolls, it gets bigger. It gets heavier. The bigger and heavier it gets, the FASTER it gets. The faster it gets, the faster it grows, and eventually, you hit a point where previously, the time passing was FAR greater than the growth, and now, the opposite is true. A good way of visualizing this is the difference in technological advancements before and after the industrial revolution. Prior to it, millennia went by with little to no significant scientific or technological advancement because, bluntly... Nobody cared about it, really. Since the industrial revolution, however, the mindset became "how can we make this easier and more efficient?" And that's is what lead to the rapid growth of technology, eventually turning from a simple convenience to a core part of our society. It's entirely possible that we WON'T see this technology in our lifetime, sure, but when our technology is advancing at the exponentially higher rate it is, with Brain Computer technology already VERY real and on its way to human testing... Can we really say it's impossible? I can't.
I understand these kind of sentiments however like my IT teacher says technology develops faster than any industry in the world, I was born in 2000 and I've seen myself from going to a fixed phone line to a genuine smartphone in 4 years, this year ai generated images went from dumpsterfire to almost impossible to tell from real artwork to generated artwork in just 6 months You genuinely can't underestimate the speed at which technology develops because it all goes so fast
yeah, like pong was made 51 years ago and look at games now, plus neuralink just got fda approved for human trials so i dont think this video will age well lol though i might just be huffing copeium.
No offense but you're huffing copium. You see, the jump from pong to actual games was inevitable, there was a measure of progress that could be made with regards to breakthroughs. Improvements in graphical fidelity, decreasing the size of capacitors and circuit boards, and most importantly, transistors. But eventually, it all reached a limit. There's a huge jump to be made from modern technology to anything resembling full dive, and we're not talking a pong -> GTA V jump, we're talking Isaac Newton laws of physics type of breakthrough but many times more advanced. @@avonmaster6628
@@avonmaster6628 there is less of a jump from pong to todays games than a quest 2 to realistically believing your in the french alps on a genuine skiing holiday tho
@@miniramptricks1986 yeah tho wait 10yrs and well talk again, and then wait 50 and i bet you will agree with us, the world will be completely different
@@miniramptricks1986 Technology is exponential though, science advances science, which advances science, which advances the actual technology and what's possible in the real world. That distance may be crossed in the same time or less than the timespan between the very first video game and today
For me personally, it is hard to say if full dive will happen within our lifetime, but if it does, I know one thing for certain. I absolutely will not trust any company who makes it without the technology being made fully open source. There is just too much information available for companies to be able to trust them to make something like this and *not* try to abuse it in some way. I don't care if it means I have to wait an extra few years to gain access to the technology, I will gladly wait if it means I can guarantee my own privacy and security.
Yeah BCI have come a long way 2 years after this video came out, the boom in AI and BCI development has been way faster than I could have imagined, Full dive is looking more and more possible every day
even with a neuralink, we wont be able to stimulate senses from digital codes yet. technology need to be like 2,3 folds advanced to be able to do that. so maybe in like half a century? lol
The problem is that growth has been stagnating recently. Over estimating technological advancement is just as common as underestimating it. In the past, people thought we would have flying cars right now but we don't and they would be useless and unsafe. You have to be realistic about the growth of technology. The bigger issue is even if full dive headsets appeared tomorrow and all tech companies manufactured them, the games would cost hundreds of millions dollars to produce. The games may even take upward of 10 years to be made. If it's open world, maybe 20 plus to program things like smell.
Thanks, lately i've been obsessed with Full Dive VR and cant stop thinking about what Full Dive VR would be like in reality. Its gotten to the point where i'm constantly hoping for some kinda breaktrough and some youtube channels keep feeding hopium. All i need to take from this is: i guess we'll eventually find out, but dont expect it. Maybe we'll be surprised, nobody can predict the future (if you make enough predictions you'll eventually be right about one)
History repeats it self a lot of people said the same thing years ago about the lightbulb, phones, radios etc. I believe it can happen with enough time and more research put into it and enough smart people we can accomplish alot
A lot of times when someone says something is "Never" going to happen, they end up looking dumb because it happens. Not to mention that tech advances happen in bursts, not in a string at a predetermined pace. Nobody knows when a technology will be ready, not even those working on it really.
Well, the statement that there is a market for up to 5 computers aged line fine fresh milk. The average person rarely owns more then 5 computers. *badum ts*
If Flying cars ever happen it’ll be because humanity has fully committed to being fucking dumb. Some things just don’t make sense in the first place no matter how much technology advanced because the premise is based on a primitive understanding of yet to be discovered technologies. Before airplanes, people thought the air balloon would be the vehicle of the future, and while commercial flight did come to pass it was in a way anticipated by very very few. If Full Dive or something analogous to Full Dive happens it’ll likely be in a form and at a time no one expects until it is inevitable.
"Never" is such a complete statement... Now at the start of the video, you do stay "Within our lifetime" and I can accept that, but "Never" is just a wrong statement if tech keeps progressing. It may be in 100 or 200 or even 500 years from now but it will happen at some point... Remember 300 years ago humankind didn't even discover electricity yet... What will we find 300 years from now?
We may not even exist till then. Humanity just keeps ignoring some major problems and humans are now getting dumber becuase we can survive fine without us much intelligence (not on a biological level of course but more so on the knowledge and common sense level)We won't even last 200 years if things keep going at this rate and the worst part is most people don't even know about all of the problems. Did you know that sharks and wolves are the complete opposites of what's shown in the movies and stories.In the last 100 years only 2 people died because of wolves and even that was cuased by non- healthy wolves wolves are even semi friendly with us. There are also no recorded case of a person dying becuase a shark ATE them. Sharks are not even intrested in human blood much less going crazy after it. over 100 million sharks are hunted every year by us. If you couldn't Guess they are endangered .These animals are important in keeping everything in order and not letting everything go into chaos (especially sharks) and we are doing nothing against it. You can do your on research on google about this if you are interested. Also congratulations if you made it here.
@@SingingGuyFromPh you can search it up if you want. It's true. If anything most peoples get their information on sharks from movies and not actual research. You even asking that proves how much most people don't know about sharks.
@@devika2545 I searched it after I saw your comment, the first thing I saw are shark attack incidents LMAO. We both have the same belief about sharks, but as the time goes by, I realized that I was wrong and sharks indeed attack humans, it's not just a thing that you see in the movies.
Fun fact: There's an average of 77 shark attacks each year. That came from the internet, I don't know where tf you got your information from. I'm asking you where you got your information because you can't back it up with statistics.
Not to be rude but you are really wrong. While yes it is really complicated but is possible and if you think about it enough. I have done research and you are not correct. It can be dangerous for people with serious brain medical conditions it is relatively safe for a healthy human. Also we have the technology to do full dive VR. I actually have done brain research and with enough people working together trying to create this using the right amount of frequencies and tech. we can create full dive. While people like you are paranoid about this and the security that is highly unlikely. People are trying to create this for the better of humanity and people like you being paranoid about it does not help. People like me who want to go to college to learn about the brain and the body to help create this technology and unless you are willing to actually look at it from the good and realistic side rather than the crazy unrealistic side that is when you can say something about it. People don't want to spend years trying to steal the minds of humanity and if there are people who can stop them. I wanted to put this out there because you are incorrect about a lot of this stuff you say. If you look at it from the side where it is impossible and dangerous it is impossible but if you can believe in the people who are actually putting in time for this and trying their hardest to create VR technology for people to enjoy. I wanted to put this out there because people are trying and putting their lives into working on creating this technology and you nonsense rampaging is not helping in any way.
As he said, use mind as controller (read brain) is not the same as disconnecting your brain from your body to get two-way (read and write in brain) connection to the machine.
@@labonnelambda58 fair but i still think its possible and in my opinion wont take as long as we think not with the amount of attention virtual worlds and vr tech is getting especially from these multibillion dollar companies no way it wont happen before we die
You can get a full dive experience through lucid dreaming and if we could make a machine that could force a person into a lucid dream and link people’s dreams together then you got Massively Multi player online dream I think we could probably complete this task by the 2040’s if VR companies started researching it now
But how would you control those dreams? Set limitations to those dreams? Give us swords and sword skills? Convince us that we're being hurt by a sword?
@@MadDogRyan But how will a device dictate what you are going to dream of? And lucid dreams arent entirely controllable. There are elements that you are aware of but don't exactly project
@@MadDogRyan but those are suggestions, not limitations. you have to fully control the dream state of the player if this was used for Full Dive, and lucid dreaming gives too much control to the player instead. the biggest aspect of a game is that it gives you limitations and parameters and what to do with them. i think it would be nice if a machine induced us into a dream-like state, but lucid dreaming is something a person themselves has to achieve/become aware of. im not sure if any machine can do that, and again if it would even be practical game-sake wise
Who knows... remember scientists speculating about flight being a distant daydream only for it to be created days later? Im just using it as an example that we can't give a definitive answer to something we have'nt seen play out, maybe you're right and full dive is far in the future but i'm scared to think that in 10 years it will occur
I completely understand where you're coming from, just because all the signs point to one thing. Doesn't mean thats how it is going to happen 100% of the time
It’s not a no, it’s a not yet and *likely* not in our lifetimes. 1876, Alexander Graham Bell patents the first telephone. 2007, the first iPhone came out. 1960, Morton Hellig patents the Telesphere Mask, the first ever head-mounted display. 2XXX, someone builds electrotactile resistance gloves to trick the mind into perceiving shape and weight of held virtual objects???
I posted this elsewhere in this comments section but I feel as though its applicable here. My response to this is a quote from the video "Ross Rants: Robot Jobs" by user Accursed Farms. He even brings up the moon landing in his analogy. "A little over a century ago, the Wright Brothers had the first motorized flight. Next thing you know, we had jetliners, then Space Shuttles, until we landed on the Moon. THE MOON! And that was almost fifty years ago, so surely by now, we've explored two or three star systems, right? No? Is that because, once you get past a certain point, there are really enormous barriers to progress and we have to contend with reality? AI is the same way." He was speaking about the possibility of self-aware AI but I feel its applicable here as well tbh.
0:47 Snow Crash had full dive VR? From what I remember, it actually describes an elaborate optical setup with lasers that can only track the top half of you. Hiro mentions that it takes a lot of practice to make your avatar move around the metaverse like a real person, and early on he gets kicked out of VR by his roommate standing in between him and his computer's camera.
An extra consideration to throw into the pool. Who here has ever experienced a "Bug" either in windows, or a video game, program etc? Ever seen the Super Mario speed runner who mysteriously jumped a hundred times the games intended jump height, purely due to a particle of cosmic radiation flipping a bit in the game? Try to imagine VR-Chat/Skyrim/Cyberpunk being 100% immaculately bug free games, being utterly flawless from release day to the end of time. Now think about what is the objective practical difference between a computer-to-brain signal making you feel a warm summers breeze/on-fire/being plunged into Arctic water/being microwaved alive? Don't try to argue "Well there would be safety systems to limit how hot..." that's not how computing works. There won't be any magic system to prevent nanometre scale misalignment in which neuron gets activated, or subtle power fluctuations in ageing hardware, or someone playing during a storm, or an annoyed relative pulling the headset off, and now your skin is made of glass spiders. For "Full Dive" to be possible, and even if it were magically perfect when used correctly, it also means living in a world where nightmarish sensations beyond all natural comprehension are now possible.
if that couldnt be controlled, an obvious solution would be to not implement touch, or to make everything feel exactly the same, or to even give things a feeling only known in that virtual space. I get where your coming from, but its not like people don't think of the possible problems, and then in turn, think of as many possible solutions for said problem. fulldive may or may not be possible, but for this problem you are talking about, having safety features isnt the only solution to consider
@@Brooke_Miller_11-17 That's kind of my point though. How do you simply "not implement touch", or tailor feelings to be only how you want them? One way or another you're activating or deactivating neurons that have a set function and result from activation. For example, you can try to program your software to only trigger an input to the brain when touching something but never to activate the portion responsible for feeling heat or pain, but the actual result of what happens is entirely dependant on the precision and reliability of the hardware providing the input signals, as well as the users own unique physiology. The software might _try_ to gently activate the area of the brain that would give the desired result, but if it's not immaculately precise down to a cellular level, you might well be accidentally activating it's neighbours, or over/under stimulating, which could have all manner of different results. So when it's all software, yeah, you just don't implement certain things. But this is a digital to analogue biological interface. There's no guarantee of things being "translated" correctly, and you can only program the intention, not the actual result. You're writing into a biological machine with lasting physical electrical and chemical consequences that can't just be rebooted to correct errors. Certain stimulations will trigger the release of hormones and (chemical) neurotransmitters, that once out in the blood stream, there's nothing the dive-gear can do to put them back. I do understand that obviously any genuine attempts at creating such technology are far far beyond my armchair critic level of understanding, and that the experts developing such a thing would be as ingenious as ever in solving issues. But my point mainly is that people vastly overlook and underestimate the significance of physically manipulating a brains internal functions.
@@UnknownSquid I understand that, but I'm just saying, it wouldnt be on the market to consumers unless it was 100 percent safe, if i was the person making it, 10, 50, 100, to 1000 years from now, id probably either test it on myself and risk myself for its success and for the safety of all others, or get volunteers and educate them about how dangerous it could be before doing it (of course after all legal proceedings would be worked out) but anyway, i believe whenever this junk is even made, the tech of the future will be so much better, and perform so much better, that safety issues will barely be a problem (because along with technological advance, medical advancement would be happening too, and fulldive kind of goes hand in hand with neurology) tbh i think whoever does end up trying to do it, should definitely have gone to college for all studies of the human brain, and try to be well versed in it all, along with education with their own technology and how it might affect said brain, thay way if any misakes are made they could possibly be less dangerous
@@Brooke_Miller_11-17 Oh of course. It'd never manage to get to market without being entirely safe (Or at least safe enough that the side effects are slow and unable to be predicted). And that's part of the general point about whether it will or won't happen. And there is also always the chance for developments and new understanding of the brain to occur in future, that are simply beyond us right now, and might make the problems I'm describing a non-issue. But just in general, the average person underestimates the challenges involved, so so much. Reading the brain, is where we'll see immediate and reasonable progress within our lifetime. But writing to it... is so much more dangerous and profound than people give credit for.
@@UnknownSquid yeah i get that, im glad we could have this debate by the way, learning others opinions does give quite a bit more perspective and whatnot
I kind of disagree. What point is there in arguing that something probably won't happen? Innovation happens in rapid bursts all the time. Personally, I think the advent of quantum computers is going to completely redefine what we view as possible in a digital space.
You're forgetting the development of science and technology. You're basing your facts on if technology develops on a linear trend. The truth is that technology tends to develop on something that is reminiscent of a exponential trend and something that we see to be impossible today, might become acheiveable within a few years time.
Aite so...I know this video is a bit old in terms of tech advancement but...right off the bat; EEG's are definitely not the only BCI in development currently. EEG, as you have stated, do indeed have all the draw backs you mentioned in the video but will almost certainly not be how we will get to a full dive level VR (which we actually probably will get to in our lifetime). For that level of experience we would have to go directly to the brain, placing wires near to your neurons and getting a crystal clear reception of every neuron necessary for said experience. tipically this will include motor cortex and also the visual center of the brain. Why do I think this to be true I hear you are ask? Well for starters lets look at the tech itself to get an idea of how far we really are from being able to full dive! First lets look back to 2016 where DARPA posted this video: ruclips.net/video/A4BR4Iqfy7w/видео.html in which they show off the capabilities of a primitive device on somebody with a physical impairment. Now mind you this was in 2016, a whole...6 YEARS AGO (holy shit...im old...) on a device that was for experimental/medical use only. Obviously we have progressed in the field a bit since then! though how far is yet to be seen because the only Simi-public facing BCI currently would be ol' musky's Neuralink (I don't particularly like muck but the device has shown considerable progress...that we know of). who know what china and various other developed counties are working on in secret till the sauce is ready. But do you want to know the funniest part of all this is? None of that really matters, simply put it may take something like 20 years on the conservative side to have this tech be as mature as cellphones (frankly I doubt it will take that long...) but that only happens in a tech vacuum, where we only work on that with no outside influence. that's not how tech works; often times another breakthrough somewhere else might cause several breakthroughs else where. this is where A.I. comes in! now before you roll your eyes at me and dismiss what I have to say, hear me out! A.I. has quite a few quotes associated with it; but by far my favorite is "Ai mankind's last invention" from the American author James Barrat. all it takes is for us to develop a good enough A.I. and that's it, the universe (even the digital ones) will be ours for the taking. Now obviously nobody know the future, and I am no exception! but I personally think a human level A.I. is at most 5 years away. you may call me crazy but I ask you to check out some of the new AI developments announced recently and tell me they don't seem closer than ever before (specifically PaLM and DALL-E 2) As for the social/safety concerns, yeah I agree, but you have to realize that we have laws, rules and regulations for such topics. You cant hack a pacemaker easily, and as far as I know nobody has yet. It is natural however to fear tampering with the brain, but that's exactly why they will be ever safer than other devices, because people will be SO put off by the idea in the first place. you wouldn't even need to put wires into those areas associated with feelings or thoughts, and just keep the wires only near the motor cortex and the visual centers of the brain. here's the thing...this tech is coming despite everything negative you've mentioned. it sucks to say or rather type this, but the truth is, it may be dangerous or even shitty...but it will still exist in our lifetimes... good or bad. anyway thanks for reading if you did! sorry for any mistakes!
I Understand this comment was made a year ago but you are 100% Right Nobody knows what the Future holds The future can be scary but also exciting anyway this was a Good Post Mate take my like!
That's more a brain uploading thing, but yeah, as terrifying as brain uploading is, it isn't nearly as terrifying as developing a powerful artificial general intelligence _without_ having any uploaded humans with the same capabilities.
@@JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles I don't understand how uploading your brain to a computer with work, that's like uploading your liver into a computer, it wouldn't be you it would just be an accurate simulation of you.
@@Tony-oh7eo There's a distinction here between "brain" the organ of the body and "brain" as in the stuff that happens in the brain, the thoughts and behaviors that make up a person. If you make an accurate simulation of the latter, you make a copy of it because it's not made out of material but... events, actions. If you accurately simulate an action, you copy that action, if you accurately simulate a thought, you copy that thought, if you build something that accurately simulates a persons thoughts, memories, personality, etc, you could be said to copy that person.
I swere that if i dont see full dive vr in my life time im even if gonna have to make more than 90% or even of my body robotic or more i will play with full dive vr. And no one will stop me
Hmmm I am not so sure, 25 years ago, a mobile device that could do everything our flagship phones now can do was not even considered possible , feasible, or by most large companies, something that people would want. My personal experience in medical R&D has enlightened me to the fact that, well we are just at the beginning of a medical renaissance. If you look at most branches of science , medicine is basically still in its infancy, really only having legs for the past 100 years or so. Both medical and computer sciences are exponentially developing, and what the world will look like in another 20 to 30 years... well its like those who tried predicting the future in the 70's , what we think it'll look like and what it's actually going to be , are probably going to be just as different as what people in the 70's thought the 2020's would look like. Elon musk makes one great point, we may not want a BCI in the future, but we may need it if we want to keep ourselves relevant to AI.
@@labonnelambda58 Yes they will. If the technology is ever invented, it'll 100% be used for military, space, etc. purposes by the government. Then eventually it'll reach the consumer market, just like computers did.
I think we'll have lightweight, essentially perfect physical headsets with movement controlled by our brains before full dive, but I wouldn't say it's not going to happen within the next 50 years or so. The reasons people don't use VR now are because it's expensive, bulky, and imperfect. The same reasons people had for not using computers and the internet in their early years. It's getting cheaper tho, and so would full dive technology. ESPECIALLY with how beneficial it would be for corporations.
Clearly this guys hasn't done his research on big tech recently. They've actually figured it out lol. Making it affordable for your average middle class citizen however is another thing entirely. But I urge you, do not make content without doing your research on some of the big tech breakthroughs. You'll kill what little followers you have.
I saw the same thing with the quantified self and biohacking crowd around the 2010s - the hype was real but tech could (and will probably never) keep up with those expectations. BCI and Full Dive is - although highly improbable - still a very cool philosophical tool to discuss what reality/actuality and our selves are. Brings up discussions on mind and lived+objectified body that have been stagnating in the past!
Gen x thought vr wasn’t possible yet here we are… also the neuralink chip could help because it can send brain waves in the brain for example to not have a seizure or a lot of different stuff but sending signals touch is still tech still far but people are getting there maybe 10 years or more idk I don’t work on that stuff so don’t think I’m right but there still might be a chance and there is a vr headset that can read brain waves but not send so we’ve made a bunch of progress over the year there was this one guy that had his spine and brain connected though bluetooth so we’re getting closer slowly but surely give it 5 years and we will be way closer to it and one project raised so much money I’m talking millons but failed so if that doesn’t show there’s a big market I don’t know what will
I think the closest we can ethically get to full dive is haptic skin suits. And as these things get more intimate, the more important it is for it to be not proprietary.
as someone who's been in the vr space since playing doom, far cry primal and dying light in 2013 with a google cardboard and syncing my mouse movement to my head. and as someone who's been dreaming of life in vr since watching matrix when i was 4, i gotta say, i dont ever want full dive. one of my favorite things about vr is that, the physical skills i use and learn are real. i pull off a crazy move in a game, i pulled that off by physically being able to do it irl. i want that. if my vr life was fulldive, i would be destroying my body with inactivity. spending all day everyday laying in my bed. i would instead just love to be physically fit and very much capable of doing the things irl that i do in game.
Thanks for a really great video. I don't often comment, but I really wanted to say how much the citations and source document is appreciated. Plenty of hugely popular channels don't bother with them, and I think It's criminal how little attention this is getting despite the quality of the writing and research.
You would be right about it not happening if the people with the power to do it actually cared about their consumers, you're speaking of how reality should be vs what will actually happen and that is that somebody stands to make an absurd amount of money from developing Full Dive VR, and we all know what happens when an idea is "not safe" but will still make a bunch of money. And seriously I thought you would give real technical points as to why it's not possible, you said "Full dive vr would have to link your brain to the internet, yOu dON't wAnT tHaT", that's not a reason it won't happen, that's your personal opinion and morals that do not apply to us that live in the real world. "Full dive vr isn't an entertainment device , it's mind control" Where are you from? Do you not know like anything about america? The fact that you feel compelled to make a video on why you think something won't happen passing it off as why it won't happen should show you how much your mind is already controlled. Do you think Columbus discovered america?
Well said (and well said by those in comments too). The path forward is some sort of skin-tight suit with micro bubbles which can individually fill up to create pressures all over, and heat up. I imagine these suits will be mass producible like OLED screens are today, using some natural chemical processes. Other than that our imaginations will be pushed to immerse ourselves more.
I love how while I would have definitely disagreed with it before too, looking at it even 5 months later truly has me confident it will happen in this lifetime. In fact, I do not believe this is even among the first things that will be done when the technology to make it possible exists, but looking at the progression of technology and where technology is moving to, we will reach technology beyond fulldive in this century, so then making fulldive wouldn't be considered remotely problematic.
@@nahometesfay1112 I don't believe it will be quickly achieved, but I believe it will be achieved within 70 years. The advancements in AI is one of the most convincing points to me. In graphic research, AI is evolving really fast, enough to replace a lot of difficult work, from tracking to rendering, passing by animation. Even labeling, which is one of the slowest parts of working with AI was solved recently by NVIDIA (they made an AI which could be trained with 16 labeled images, and was able to correctly understand the concepts and label images of the same things themselves). AI is very little cheap in computational power and can do lifelike approximations of a lot of tasks. This is the defining factor to me. It is a field that is not limited by humans' ability to create, as it leverages human innovation to do more. And I think that fulldive is fundamentally limited by its format. If you have the ability to read and write to the brain as well as manage the information that is sent to the body, there is no true interest to making it in an exclusive format. If you think about it, AR will be integrated into our lives long before Fulldive. In fact, even brain interfaces might be too (with neuralink for example), so there are high chances we have access to brain interfaces games long before fulldive becomes a reality. So just like VR came as a feature extension to the support known as computers, it's likely that the technologies used in fulldive will be first used on AR & brain interfaces. It would make sense to try it first on a mainstream support. Of course, there would be nothing stopping humans from adding fulldive as a feature of high-end brain interfaces, a "fullscreen" mode of sorts that you could use after laying down on your bed or in your autonomous car.
@@Exilum Everytime someone says some technology will be developed in 100 years it actually ends up being 50 or so. so, 70 years could very well be in 35 years more or less.
@@richinhoberl1ndo496 Of course. I made an amateur estimate with the little I know. But then, I also saw qualified experts who thought barely 2 years ago that a lot of things papers now do with AI wouldn't be possible for over a decade, so... The conclusion is technology is basically impossible to predict, and as financial disclaimers say, past performance does not guarantee future results.
Good stuff! Agree that there's some 'simple' solutions to increasing immersion, largely the more basic trickery of the senses like you've covered. There a noticeable difference in weight and comfort from the original (pre-weight shedding) HTC VIVE and the most recent headsets, even. Comfort and lack of impact on your 'real world' senses, outside of the VR experience, have a large effect that most don't seem to consider! Things like the SlimeVR lightweight trackers are another good direction. There's a difference between immersion and completely merging the two realities, and the idea of BCIs as a VR control mechanism is scarily far into the latter.
Idk, I'd still rather have an SAO like experience rather than a Ready player one like experience but thats just me. Although, in terms of it happening in my lifetime I'm fine with having (RPO) like tech because having something is better than having nothing. Also on the topic of immersion, I don't think just being able to use all your senses in a virtual world means two realities are merging, it just means that technology is at a level that your fully immersed in whatever it is that you're doing.
It isn’t impossible, when the car was designed, everyone had previously thought it was impossible. Human live on technology. I am sure that one day the time will come.
If I get to live in a world as long as I want to, like in the Black Mirror episode San Junipero, with my amazingly gorgeous partner, I’d be in line to go there like tomorrow. I hate this world which was made the way it is no thanks to idiots and their wars that involve us good people, or the death and destruction of nature due to to rich asshole….I want to leave that behind. In a heart beat!!
I’m pretty sure people in the year 2000 would say the ps5 is cutting edge tech despite the gap being 22 years I wouldn’t say FDVR is “never gonna happen.” Within a 22 year gap companies like PlayStation have been able to make consoles specs go up dramatically I’m pretty sure someone like you said the same thing 22 years ago “why consoles will never have photo realistic graphics.”
As someone who is relatively young with DBS, the risks you mention are more often associated with older people, and are typically more to do with memory than it being fatal or debilitating. Calibrating the device has been the most challenging part of it, as your brain adjusts in ways that is counter-productive to it's function and currently there is no way to automatically compensate.
If i saw this video 2 years ago, i would agree. However, seeing how fast the technology is currently progressing, and the fact that neuralink got fda approved to try human trials, i wouldn't say it's impossible in our lifetime. If neuralink succeeds, then i will have no doubts about full dive vr happening in my lifetime.
Good on you for getting rid of that "never" in the title. Honestly, if you could accurately predict the technological progress for the next 30, let alone 50-80 years, there would likely be a LOT of people who would like a moment of your time.
Then if it wouldn't....then I'd turn to reality shifting then...pffft Shows how bad people want to escape reality...and that's something I always wanted to do
I somewhat agree but at the same time I also get a good look at the snowball that is machine learning and it makes me think some of the issues you bring up are far more solvable than you think. For instance, with a tech like this, the creation of a specialized implant device/robot would be perfectly reasonable and drastically reduce the costs and risks, we don't really see this now because we don't really have a major surgery that literally 100% of the population would want/need to incentivize/justify it's creation. The ethical issues of its development would also go out the window starting with the cases of disease you mention, followed by more and more issues, particularly surrounding the elderly, until the tech is ubiquitous enough that the thought of casual installation becomes socially and morally acceptable. Hopefully this will progress fast enough that we can be some of said elderly people and can enjoy an extended life/quality of life in our old age as a result.
Under normal tech trajectories, I agree full dive VR is unlikely in our lifetimes. If Ray Kurzweil and Nick Bostrom are right, though, and we end up with a superintelligent AI singularity that can rapidly improve itself (and it doesn't kill us), that could greatly accelerate the development of this kind of technology, including molecular nanotechnology. I was a skeptic, myself, until I saw some of the new general AI work coming out this year like Deepmind Gato.
Honestly this video is great. The idea of deep dive is terrifying me. I feel like people seriously underestimate how crucial to our agency the choice of whether to interact or input data is, a choice that is already being increasingly undermined by both private and governmental surveillance.
id be really worried about the security of full dive. maybe its because i just finished cyberpunk 2077, but i can see someones brain getting fried because of hackers.
Hello! I'll be doing a Q&A *tonight* (9/8) about this video at 10PM EST on my Twitch channel: twitch.tv/straszgaming. Hope you enjoy this one. It's a little cynical. :P
Neurallink only allows you to control a device with your brain, and it isn't too good but gets the job done for disabled people that can only move their eyes. It doesn't input sensory touch, smell, taste, hearing, or touch. They do plan and want to do that, tho they have ways to go till they can do that. I personally think it will be in our lifetime based on how fast technology is progressing, it's rapidly getting better and getting better faster.
You would have to connect to every part of the brain. Consciousness and identity are interwoven into all the neurons of the brain. Difficult to connect to I agree.
Fulldive VR will happen as soon as quantum computers reach the consumer market, which isn't that far off. By the way, flying cars are already a thing. Slovakia recently got the green light from the European Aviation Safety Agency to start mass producing their flying car.
Quantum computers aren't the miracle technology to replace classical computers that you think it is, because of how they function they are likely to remain very specialised for solving certain types of problems. Plus I don't get what that has to do with vr.
Perhaps if it induced you into a state of paralysis whilst you had the head mounted display on and then you had other peripheries that detect when the brain is trying to send signals to certain parts for movement ?
After watching sao a few years back I got hyped about full dive Now after reading sao progressive I got hyped again It is time to take a deep breath and relax Maybe it is childish, but I am a child.
Dont worry it's not guaranteed that full dive wont be possible. And neuralink's comming at the end of the year and they have mass tested it. Thoooo the surgery is expected to be 1000$ and you might need to travel to another country to get acess to it. + The number of people trying to get it.
Full dive might be impossible in our lifetime but a crude vr version that stimulates all your senses is theoratically possible with current technology, from feeling to smelling to seeing and even tasting and hearing...... basically you don't need to hack into your brain you can do something way easier and hack everything outside of it and get something as good as full dive as far as anyone knows. I mean our brain is great at filling in blanks, if you lead it on with just enough sensations in the right spots it can trick itself into thinking the real thing.
Yeah. I think the real thing blocking us from having full dive in our lifetimes is that the current technology, which I have to emphasize as you said that it exists, is invasive, and unless we have a huge scientific breakthrough that disproves our knowledge in this space entirely will remain such. Which was brought up in this video, but I think this video is severely underestimating the hype and sheer amount of people who are already surgically "self-hacking" themselves with shit like literally injecting chips like nfc tags into their brain and lining up to do even more advanced surgeries. Plus as the singularity hits, which could very well happen in our lifetimes, technology will grow at a currently unfathomable pace. Also, this video makes assumptions about what areas of the brain it would and could interface with and how much controll full dive would have. Most research in the sensory stimuli space involves interfacing not at the brain, but at the points of the senses. The wrists for the hands (not how you think, check it out), the nose for your smell, your tongue for your taste, etc. Why would we expect full-dive to be exactly like SAO just because SAO led to the term?
the thought of playing vrc and seeing the 4 groups: desktop, headset, fbt, full dive just the thought of full dive being possible in a game like vrc is halarious to me.
I don’t recall watching a video where every. single. claim. is just completely wrong. I started writing a long response detailing what where and how it’s all just untrue, but then if the creator has so little respect for his audience why should I waste my time.
This is like tesla's wireless power, the people that support it don't comprehend the consequences of such devices and those consequences are the reason why we don't use wireless power commercially or residentially, even though the devices currently exist. just to get our foot in the door to true neural link levels of VR we would have to have major governmental, and ethical changes culturally. First, most human rights would have to just disappear/signed away due to the risks of the device alone.
I am a neurobiologist and this video is spot on. Like you can muse all day on how science works in leap and there are big breakthrough but those considerations always feel like they are from an outsider perspective on how bad we actually are at any biological and even what are the physical limits of computation in general. Like flying cars as imagined in the 80s are order of magnitudes more feasible then than what full dive vr will be in 20 years, in a future where quantum computer or ny other misunderstood oracle-like technology exists.
i agree i reckon atleast 100 years till you can ski in the french alps in a full dive. people like to think how quick tech gets better but its been like 25 years since a ps2. best we can hope for is decent level immersion and clarity for a game like gta 6 in vr
I think it's a good thing, to look at the past and call ourselves foolish, BECAUSE OMG ELONGATED MUSK made something that could possibly bring us closer to full dive, or atleast half dive, no hate to you btw just a friendly comment! :D
I feel like after watching this you're thinking of our current technology and not what is most likely going to be in the next 10-20 years. Will we most likey have "full dive" in the sense of SAO terms in the next 10 years unlikely as all hell without a form of intrusive device. Now, 15-20 years from now and I think the story is very different. These devices aren't moving at a linear rate they are moving exponentially. I would imagine in the next 5-10 years to see a kind of mid-way to "full-dive" and in my eyes the best of both worlds. This would be the ability to move and do things using your brain but, having the external tech to manage what would take intrusive BCI's to do. Project Galea is something that we will most likely see a push for the enthusiast side of the market as what it's supposed to offer should gravitate more towards that. Not, at all saying, Galea will provide locomotion as its kind of been more from the sounds of it anyway to be used for level design and actions to occur based on the user's feelings and things. However, to get to the point of locomotion being possible with a BCI large-scale data collection is need, in order to form a, AI that can manage the data and use it as inputs for the appropriate thing. This is just my opinion but, current tech in 20 years will be what the early 2000s is to us now. All I'm saying is saying it's never going to happen or will not be in our lifetime is unrealistic (I mean I guess it depends on your age but, you know). Maybe a "full dive" like SAO won't be but, there will definitely be something in that realm that can be considered "full dive".
I mean it's basically just like a persistent multiplayer lucid dream. Those first two steps alone are already possible. I imagine with future advancement in bci technology that we will be able to record dreams and even be able to allow for joining of two or more dreamscapes, likely using a code or something. There's probably even the possibility creating games specifically to play in dreams. Either way if shared dreaming doesn't become a thing at least we have dream recording to look forward to
staszfiles, to some agree, I understand your skepticism about predictive algorithms. While you discuss the potential downsides of invasive advertising and brain scans in the context of full dive VR, I believe that despite your video being over a year old, the reality is different. Discovering your content was not coincidental, as it appeared in my recommendations due to its relevance. The irony lies in your title "full dive VR isn't happening in our lifetime," because corporations already possess substantial information about us. Even on closed systems like Plex, your episode was within my top 10 RUclips recommendations. Flex, to my knowledge, doesn't share data without consent, but somehow, the system managed to suggest your video after I watched the anime "full dive." This occurrence highlights how corporations seem to understand us more deeply than we realize. Even though with the information below somehow someway the system knows I watch that show on my own server and matched me with your RUclips episode there's credence and then there's a problem Plex is designed to respect user privacy. Your media files stored on your own server are not shared with the outside world by Plex. However, keep in mind that certain features, like the metadata retrieval, may involve connections to online databases. It's always a good practice to review Plex's privacy settings and policies to ensure your preferences are respected.
I'm really enjoying these talking essays. VR and VR chat in particular appears to be a fascinating social melting pot frontier, that might be time limited. I'd love to chat with you in VR sum time
I think myself with my own experiences with the full dive vr system is quite possible in our lifetimes as many university’s including my own I’m going to in October already have simulated experiences for people who can sleep and their dreams be manipulated by outside tech via external bci systems and it’s already being used in medical and military apparatus so I think it is quite possible but it would need all university and bci companies working together to achieve the goal by the time it released in the anime Sao as recently as 2016 we identified quite a lot of the areas in our brain so it’s possible but it would take a lot of commitment and effort by all universities and governments
This week the company ElectroLux bricked a large number of their wifi enabled smart microwaves because someone fat fingered a value in an Over The Air update. Let's apply this to BCI's. Imagine losing the ability to control your bowels for several weeks because an intern pushed an update without testing it. Imagine being at the grocery store and seeing people stroking out because someone fat fingered a value in a firmware update.
the people who want this so bad their angry at the uploader are hilarious to me. do you really want to be a system that has to continuously control your vital functions while you sleep just so you can live your SAO kirito fantasy ? like do you really trust a system to 1. put you to "sleep", 2. keep your heart/lungs/brain functioning, 3. not potentially damage you, 4. trust to tell you when its time to eat/sleep/shit ? I'd way prefer something that just used advanced BCI over something that required me to full dive.
Their is no definite answer. This can unironically happen in a few years , maybe even a few decades , even a 100 years. People a day before the airplane was created were saying “Air flight” = Never gonna happen and is a dream. I think it’ll happen relatively soon , but not as “advanced” but once again theirs no definite answer
Hello! It's me, the person you're running to the comments to yell at!
I've changed the title of the video from "never" to "isn't happening our lifetime." I say essentially this exact line at 1:33 in the video, when I'm essentially stating the thesis of the video. To be clear, that is: "And yet, if you just excuse yourself from the hype for a hot minute, you’ll actually see we’re not actually anywhere close to full dive VR. In fact, we probably never will be -- at least not in our lifetime."
Yes, the "never" is an exaggeration. Who knows what will happen in 3 million years! With this video, I'm not trying to predict the terminus of human invention, I'm simply stating that full dive VR is likely not happening in the next century, nor is it desirable, nor do most people want it, nor -- if it did happen -- would it be a good thing.
Atleast were about to get half dive
People used to say the same thing before the discovery of an airplane , I'm not saying that it's near but I'm sure it's gonna happen in this century.
@@तंबाकूOP There just to much needed to be done after Technology isn’t all that old. Uploading a copy of a human mind to a data drive is hard enough. Imagine uploading a live human mind to the meta verse. Most people would end up dying do to shock, too many variables to account for
I love this subject buddy Human Connectome Project has copied and reuploaded memories in Alzheimer's patients theres a Prosthetic legs that is also proven to send senses to the brain people can tell the toe to calve apart tho its playing on these same signals also russia and china have people claiming tech that every country has shown interest in on this very matter so the argument not in our lifetime is a stretch when its clearly been happening for the past 30 years obama just finished it and now with a medical and scientific stander who are you to say we cant accomplish this either ruclips.net/video/33bVGBkDy54/видео.html
Just sounds like you've seen clickbait is a gamble especially if your audience... maybe... doesn't consider you an authority on this subject b/c you don't work in any advanced technology companies. The rule of clickbait is people have to enjoy the content more than they are mad for being clickbaited. I don't see how you thought this would pass that threshold. And to be clear I didn't watch the vid. I don't need to hear theory from every youtuber or commenter in the world and I just wanted to make the above points about this being bad youtuber behavior despite what some from old media might say.
“Mankind will never fly in our lifetime”
“Mankind will never set foot on the moon.”
Never say never
"A little over a century ago, the Wright Brothers had the first motorized flight. Next thing you know, we had jetliners, then Space Shuttles, until we landed on the Moon. THE MOON! And that was almost fifty years ago, so surely by now, we've explored two or three star systems, right? No? Is that because, once you get past a certain point, there are really enormous barriers to progress and we have to contend with reality? AI is the same way."
- Ross W. Scott of Accursed Farms, "Ross Rants: Robot Jobs".
@@NessieNep The point is future is hard to predict. There are several technologies that may down the road lead to full dive vr. Or they may not. With rise of things like AI and Neuralink path opens to many more breaktroughs, or it turns out it was all overrated.
I guess We will see. :P
@NessieNep for now, AI does not seem to be stopping though and the progress we do make before the barrier, will have an enormous impact on humanity.
What y'all yappin about guy literally said not happening in our lifetime not never ...
Selective example doesn't disprove that..
Let me give some example like
We will have Net Positive Fusion reactor in next 25 years... -- Nuclear Scientists every 10 years since the launch of first Nuclear Fission Reaction.
You're forgetting a major aspect of why Full dive vr would not likely happen. Lets imagine that SAO level of technology exists and you are able to change your avatar into anything. Now lets imagine your character has four arms instead of two. You can control them independently and you get sensory input from all four arms. It may be a little clumsy at first but as you continue to play with this character you develop muscle memory and now your extra pair of arms feels as natural to you as your other pair of arms. You've just developed neural pathways to control these two arms. What happens when the headset is taken off and your brain is looking for that extra pair of arms that is never there? Would you develop phantom limb syndrome? What happens to your motor skills if you spend your full dive VR as a dog on all fours running around?
You're right, I *didn't* think of this. I'm sure someone might see this as silly, but that's actually a really fascinating thing to think about.
@@wilddog73 as someone who trains in boxing and spars a lot. It's not the injuries during the fight that hurts..... its the recovery afterwards when adrenaline wears off.
That's awesome to think about
That's fascinating to think about, though it would only prevent full-dive VR users from using avatars that are too different. Full-dive VR with humanoid avatar of regularly numbered limbs would still happen.
If they accessed the part or your brain that creates dreams then that shouldn’t be a problem
Its insane how 2 years ago when this video was released I would of agreed. So much can happen in just a short span of time. That's the beauty of AI advancements :)
man I agree with you, but I still dont believe it is going to happen... The closest we have of full dive technology is Elon Musk's neuralink, which is really a awesome technology, but it is still in a phase that we cant even consider an alpha... I do believe it will advance really fast, but lets be real, they wont use it to play video games. I am sure they will improve it to cure things such as blindness, people who got paraplegic during their lifetime (both of which are confirmed they are working on fixing), and a lot of other things. video games wont be prior (which is completely right, other people's life are way more precious than the full dive technology).
@@ggkhjdooenewiwsveus1918 Elon Musk confirmed it would be for gaming too
@@ggkhjdooenewiwsveus1918 correct me if im wrong but Im pretty sure that elom himself confirmed that after it comes out and is used for medical reasons that they might change it to be able to run games n stuff
@@okMopp I wont be able to answer you about that because I myself didnt read anything about it, for now I am busy with some stuff but when I get all things done I will search about it
im assuming we will mayube get a kinda demo full dive in 5-8 years time if nerulink ever reaches game space
Will this diminish my hope for such dreams: No
Has it tempered my expectations: Yes
Hype is good in moderation, but let's not get sucked into false projects who sell us on this in the next decade xc
As a human you have to believe to stay sane
And I believe in having infinitly long life, full dive vr, a perfect ai that creates a perfect world for me and a private intergalactic spaceship one time in the future :D
Fr this man doesn’t know what he is talking about because he can’t predict the future
I hope somehow it gets invented before I grow old an die. I want so badly to experience this before I die.
I disagree. I’m more neutral on the subject. How would anyone know what kind of technology we will have in 50-100 years from now? It’s fine to make educated guesses but to say no as a definite answer is kinda absurd… there are many factors you aren’t taking into account.
Its a matter of when really. Humanity tends to do this. Scientists said Humanity can never achieve Heavier than Air flight but a few months later the entire world is blown by the Wright Brothers.
Its a matter of when and it will happen in our lifetime.
yeah. and with this peace with a little war. techs are advancing on a stupidly tremendous phase... its terrifying.
@@Shihir0 Enter: Ukraine
@@Sinoxqq depends on your point of view and your own personal experiences with technology (and scifi ig lol), ...
Me, for myself can only agree tho, the road until there is gonna be a hell lot of fun
ur thinking too hard, just a click bait title brother man
Well, this aged like milk.
No it hasn't lol.
@@mr30u79 Yes it has lol.
@@Minteal-_- So you have a full dive vr headset then? This is groundbreaking
@@mr30u79 I thought you’d reply with the same comment again, so I thought we could go in a loop
@@mr30u79This video doesn't account for the rise of AI, which is what will ultimately allow for FDVR
I for one am looking forward to plugin in my brain into nuralink in the morning and have my brain solve computer vision problems for amazon for 10 hours so I can afford rent
Cyberpunk: 2077
Look I understand your using science to disprove this, but here's my issue with this approach and why I disagree with the overall message of this video, and that is the assumption that our knowledge grows on a linear timeline of a specific subject, meaning that we learn at a constant rate about a topic, which I disagree, my reasoning being this, we landed on the moon in 7/20/1969 at the time the only thing we were graphically capable of was basically a small grid of pixels, and 512 MB of storage would take up about an entire checkout lane in a superstore, now a-days we can literally hold millions of px in our hands and hold well over 8TB in a external harddrive, we don't grow in knowledge at a constant rate but rather at an exponential rate and I believe that the point of diminishing returns on this curve is full-dive technology. To say that because our current knowledge of science disproves something thus it must not be true/possible (even if that is to say only in our lifetime)is to go against the purpose of science itself, the whole point of laws and theories is to disprove and revise them till perfection which because of the human limit isn't possible.
This is true in VR too. Started off as a panoramic view with no interactions, then a few years later came the VR set that everyone was fascinated by. Later on, the omnidirectional treadmill that allows you to travel in VR without moving IRL as well as as a vest that detects if sensations in VR and sends vibrations through it. Additionally, Half-Life Alyx came out and was groundbreaking
Exactly. A computer in 1970 literally had the RAM of 1 Kbit, and the computers were the size of mini libraries back then. 40 years later we had computers that are thousands of times more powerful and can fit in our pockets.
And now our phones are literally more powerful than the average PCs of like, 2008-2010.
It's important to stress that technology like full dive is not coming soon, and nobody should expect it to just appear out of nowhere, but I think it's a little foolish to believe stuff like this is coming never in our lifetimes (which can be up to 90 or so years for some viewers).
We are really bad at predicting the future in general. So much we have predicted in the past has either happened way sooner and developed way better than some thought, while other things are not even close to being invented like some have predicted. Not to mention there's always things that come out of nowhere: both bumps that slow down progress and stuff that makes something a reality a decade earlier than expected.
yeah our growth in knowledge is not linear, its actually dropping on a individual basis and that very fast... xD so before we get full dive we return to caveman
You don't even need to get that in the weeds about it. Even though it's not equivalent to moors law exactly we're still living in a time where we're seeing more advancements every year than we saw in the whole of the 1800s. We went from a time where we spent thousands of years walking and then thousands of years riding (some of us at least), to having trains, cars and planes all invented within a 100 year period. Assuming that keeps up at even half pace the world is probably going to look radically different in 30 years let alone 100. And that's all ignoring the occasional society-altering tech that no one saw coming.
100% agree, the dude is just too negative.
I'm going to take a bold guess and say 20 years.
Actually later this year, already sold out 25k-35k a headset
Mine is actually a none bold 10 years
Boy this didn't age well. Lol
I hope we get FDVR with the advent of AGI.
I fully Disagree, Technology Is advancing Rapidly at This rate we'll be there in around 10-20 years
Doesn't change the fact the technology currently being researched isn't even for games. After full dive vr is possible it will take decades for an actual good game to be created.
Oh hell yes. I'll be living
give it 20-40 years to kick off. Might not be Matrix level of sophistication, but its coming in our lifetime, wethere for somebody born in the new generation of 2021 onward, or somebody born 20 years ago or 40 years ago. Stay healthy, and wait to see it all unfold and more!
I wish i would've been born in 2022
I think 50 years
Maybe you are right. I still think its gonna happen in our lifetimes. At the elast we will be seeing every little baby step towards all that stuff. Might not get holodecks, which is unfortunate, but the next 40 years will be interesting if we dont annihilate ourselves beforehand. BE well ^
I feel like something critical you're missing is how technology advances. Its rate is not linear, and even more rarely consistent.
100 years ago, computers did not exist. Fifty years ago, a supercomputer that makes our phones look like magic took up an entire room. Twenty years ago, an 8 mb memory card was considered a standard, and now, if you don't have AT LEAST a terabyte of storage, it's borderline unusable.
Technology's growth is extremely exponential. It's like rolling a snowball down a hill. Snowball is technology, the hill is time. At first, it's slow, and prone to getting stuck on denser patches of snow. But as it rolls, it gets bigger. It gets heavier. The bigger and heavier it gets, the FASTER it gets. The faster it gets, the faster it grows, and eventually, you hit a point where previously, the time passing was FAR greater than the growth, and now, the opposite is true.
A good way of visualizing this is the difference in technological advancements before and after the industrial revolution. Prior to it, millennia went by with little to no significant scientific or technological advancement because, bluntly... Nobody cared about it, really. Since the industrial revolution, however, the mindset became "how can we make this easier and more efficient?" And that's is what lead to the rapid growth of technology, eventually turning from a simple convenience to a core part of our society.
It's entirely possible that we WON'T see this technology in our lifetime, sure, but when our technology is advancing at the exponentially higher rate it is, with Brain Computer technology already VERY real and on its way to human testing... Can we really say it's impossible? I can't.
I understand these kind of sentiments however like my IT teacher says technology develops faster than any industry in the world, I was born in 2000 and I've seen myself from going to a fixed phone line to a genuine smartphone in 4 years, this year ai generated images went from dumpsterfire to almost impossible to tell from real artwork to generated artwork in just 6 months
You genuinely can't underestimate the speed at which technology develops because it all goes so fast
yeah, like pong was made 51 years ago and look at games now, plus neuralink just got fda approved for human trials so i dont think this video will age well lol though i might just be huffing copeium.
No offense but you're huffing copium. You see, the jump from pong to actual games was inevitable, there was a measure of progress that could be made with regards to breakthroughs. Improvements in graphical fidelity, decreasing the size of capacitors and circuit boards, and most importantly, transistors. But eventually, it all reached a limit. There's a huge jump to be made from modern technology to anything resembling full dive, and we're not talking a pong -> GTA V jump, we're talking Isaac Newton laws of physics type of breakthrough but many times more advanced. @@avonmaster6628
@@avonmaster6628 there is less of a jump from pong to todays games than a quest 2 to realistically believing your in the french alps on a genuine skiing holiday tho
@@miniramptricks1986 yeah tho wait 10yrs and well talk again, and then wait 50 and i bet you will agree with us, the world will be completely different
@@miniramptricks1986 Technology is exponential though, science advances science, which advances science, which advances the actual technology and what's possible in the real world. That distance may be crossed in the same time or less than the timespan between the very first video game and today
For me personally, it is hard to say if full dive will happen within our lifetime, but if it does, I know one thing for certain. I absolutely will not trust any company who makes it without the technology being made fully open source. There is just too much information available for companies to be able to trust them to make something like this and *not* try to abuse it in some way. I don't care if it means I have to wait an extra few years to gain access to the technology, I will gladly wait if it means I can guarantee my own privacy and security.
Yeah BCI have come a long way 2 years after this video came out, the boom in AI and BCI development has been way faster than I could have imagined, Full dive is looking more and more possible every day
You'd be surprised. 20 years ago you wouldn't think wed have computers in our hands. Technology is leaping quite fast
Now we can pay using our phone
@@petervickers911 phenomenal
even with a neuralink, we wont be able to stimulate senses from digital codes yet. technology need to be like 2,3 folds advanced to be able to do that. so maybe in like half a century? lol
The problem is that growth has been stagnating recently. Over estimating technological advancement is just as common as underestimating it. In the past, people thought we would have flying cars right now but we don't and they would be useless and unsafe. You have to be realistic about the growth of technology. The bigger issue is even if full dive headsets appeared tomorrow and all tech companies manufactured them, the games would cost hundreds of millions dollars to produce. The games may even take upward of 10 years to be made. If it's open world, maybe 20 plus to program things like smell.
@@IreFang Thats video games now dude, GTA 5 costed 265 million dollars to make and its almost ten years old
Thanks, lately i've been obsessed with Full Dive VR and cant stop thinking about what Full Dive VR would be like in reality. Its gotten to the point where i'm constantly hoping for some kinda breaktrough and some youtube channels keep feeding hopium.
All i need to take from this is: i guess we'll eventually find out, but dont expect it. Maybe we'll be surprised, nobody can predict the future (if you make enough predictions you'll eventually be right about one)
same. All I’m thinking about is SAO IRL 😂
@@woahaces Unfortunately SAO itself is literally a Bethesda game programmed to exponentially widen the gap between the top players and the bottom ones
History repeats it self a lot of people said the same thing years ago about the lightbulb, phones, radios etc. I believe it can happen with enough time and more research put into it and enough smart people we can accomplish alot
A lot of times when someone says something is "Never" going to happen, they end up looking dumb because it happens.
Not to mention that tech advances happen in bursts, not in a string at a predetermined pace. Nobody knows when a technology will be ready, not even those working on it really.
Well, the statement that there is a market for up to 5 computers aged line fine fresh milk.
The average person rarely owns more then 5 computers. *badum ts*
If Flying cars ever happen it’ll be because humanity has fully committed to being fucking dumb. Some things just don’t make sense in the first place no matter how much technology advanced because the premise is based on a primitive understanding of yet to be discovered technologies. Before airplanes, people thought the air balloon would be the vehicle of the future, and while commercial flight did come to pass it was in a way anticipated by very very few. If Full Dive or something analogous to Full Dive happens it’ll likely be in a form and at a time no one expects until it is inevitable.
@@mimipeahes5848
Flying cars already exist.
They're just not practical, so they're not mass produced and given to everyone.
"Never" is such a complete statement... Now at the start of the video, you do stay "Within our lifetime" and I can accept that, but "Never" is just a wrong statement if tech keeps progressing.
It may be in 100 or 200 or even 500 years from now but it will happen at some point... Remember 300 years ago humankind didn't even discover electricity yet... What will we find 300 years from now?
We may not even exist till then. Humanity just keeps ignoring some major problems and humans are now getting dumber becuase we can survive fine without us much intelligence (not on a biological level of course but more so on the knowledge and common sense level)We won't even last 200 years if things keep going at this rate and the worst part is most people don't even know about all of the problems. Did you know that sharks and wolves are the complete opposites of what's shown in the movies and stories.In the last 100 years only 2 people died because of wolves and even that was cuased by non- healthy wolves wolves are even semi friendly with us. There are also no recorded case of a person dying becuase a shark ATE them. Sharks are not even intrested in human blood much less going crazy after it. over 100 million sharks are hunted every year by us. If you couldn't Guess they are endangered .These animals are important in keeping everything in order and not letting everything go into chaos (especially sharks) and we are doing nothing against it. You can do your on research on google about this if you are interested. Also congratulations if you made it here.
@@devika2545 Are you sure there are no recorded shark attacks? Where are you getting your information from? Lol.
@@SingingGuyFromPh you can search it up if you want. It's true. If anything most peoples get their information on sharks from movies and not actual research. You even asking that proves how much most people don't know about sharks.
@@devika2545 I searched it after I saw your comment, the first thing I saw are shark attack incidents LMAO. We both have the same belief about sharks, but as the time goes by, I realized that I was wrong and sharks indeed attack humans, it's not just a thing that you see in the movies.
Fun fact: There's an average of 77 shark attacks each year. That came from the internet, I don't know where tf you got your information from. I'm asking you where you got your information because you can't back it up with statistics.
Not to be rude but you are really wrong. While yes it is really complicated but is possible and if you think about it enough. I have done research and you are not correct. It can be dangerous for people with serious brain medical conditions it is relatively safe for a healthy human. Also we have the technology to do full dive VR. I actually have done brain research and with enough people working together trying to create this using the right amount of frequencies and tech. we can create full dive. While people like you are paranoid about this and the security that is highly unlikely. People are trying to create this for the better of humanity and people like you being paranoid about it does not help. People like me who want to go to college to learn about the brain and the body to help create this technology and unless you are willing to actually look at it from the good and realistic side rather than the crazy unrealistic side that is when you can say something about it. People don't want to spend years trying to steal the minds of humanity and if there are people who can stop them. I wanted to put this out there because you are incorrect about a lot of this stuff you say. If you look at it from the side where it is impossible and dangerous it is impossible but if you can believe in the people who are actually putting in time for this and trying their hardest to create VR technology for people to enjoy. I wanted to put this out there because people are trying and putting their lives into working on creating this technology and you nonsense rampaging is not helping in any way.
"fulldive will never happen" *three months later:* fully playable games you only use ur mind for
As he said, use mind as controller (read brain) is not the same as disconnecting your brain from your body to get two-way (read and write in brain) connection to the machine.
@@labonnelambda58 fair but i still think its possible and in my opinion wont take as long as we think not with the amount of attention virtual worlds and vr tech is getting especially from these multibillion dollar companies no way it wont happen before we die
You can get a full dive experience through lucid dreaming and if we could make a machine that could force a person into a lucid dream and link people’s dreams together then you got Massively Multi player online dream I think we could probably complete this task by the 2040’s if VR companies started researching it now
But how would you control those dreams? Set limitations to those dreams? Give us swords and sword skills? Convince us that we're being hurt by a sword?
@@biskys6718 you can already control your dreams when lucid you just have to focus
@@MadDogRyan But how will a device dictate what you are going to dream of? And lucid dreams arent entirely controllable. There are elements that you are aware of but don't exactly project
@@biskys6718 subliminal suggestions
@@MadDogRyan but those are suggestions, not limitations. you have to fully control the dream state of the player if this was used for Full Dive, and lucid dreaming gives too much control to the player instead.
the biggest aspect of a game is that it gives you limitations and parameters and what to do with them. i think it would be nice if a machine induced us into a dream-like state, but lucid dreaming is something a person themselves has to achieve/become aware of. im not sure if any machine can do that, and again if it would even be practical game-sake wise
Who knows... remember scientists speculating about flight being a distant daydream only for it to be created days later?
Im just using it as an example that we can't give a definitive answer to something we have'nt seen play out, maybe you're right and full dive is far in the future but i'm scared to think that in 10 years it will occur
I completely understand where you're coming from, just because all the signs point to one thing. Doesn't mean thats how it is going to happen 100% of the time
It’s not a no, it’s a not yet and *likely* not in our lifetimes.
1876, Alexander Graham Bell patents the first telephone.
2007, the first iPhone came out.
1960, Morton Hellig patents the Telesphere Mask, the first ever head-mounted display.
2XXX, someone builds electrotactile resistance gloves to trick the mind into perceiving shape and weight of held virtual objects???
I posted this elsewhere in this comments section but I feel as though its applicable here.
My response to this is a quote from the video "Ross Rants: Robot Jobs" by user Accursed Farms. He even brings up the moon landing in his analogy.
"A little over a century ago, the Wright Brothers had the first motorized flight. Next thing you know, we had jetliners, then Space Shuttles, until we landed on the Moon. THE MOON! And that was almost fifty years ago, so surely by now, we've explored two or three star systems, right? No? Is that because, once you get past a certain point, there are really enormous barriers to progress and we have to contend with reality? AI is the same way."
He was speaking about the possibility of self-aware AI but I feel its applicable here as well tbh.
@@thrownstair yes but thats saying our lifespan doesn't increase in length with the advent of new technology
If there’s one thing to always keep in mind about technology it’s that results can happen way sooner or way later than expected
0:47 Snow Crash had full dive VR? From what I remember, it actually describes an elaborate optical setup with lasers that can only track the top half of you. Hiro mentions that it takes a lot of practice to make your avatar move around the metaverse like a real person, and early on he gets kicked out of VR by his roommate standing in between him and his computer's camera.
An extra consideration to throw into the pool.
Who here has ever experienced a "Bug" either in windows, or a video game, program etc?
Ever seen the Super Mario speed runner who mysteriously jumped a hundred times the games intended jump height, purely due to a particle of cosmic radiation flipping a bit in the game?
Try to imagine VR-Chat/Skyrim/Cyberpunk being 100% immaculately bug free games, being utterly flawless from release day to the end of time.
Now think about what is the objective practical difference between a computer-to-brain signal making you feel a warm summers breeze/on-fire/being plunged into Arctic water/being microwaved alive?
Don't try to argue "Well there would be safety systems to limit how hot..." that's not how computing works. There won't be any magic system to prevent nanometre scale misalignment in which neuron gets activated, or subtle power fluctuations in ageing hardware, or someone playing during a storm, or an annoyed relative pulling the headset off, and now your skin is made of glass spiders.
For "Full Dive" to be possible, and even if it were magically perfect when used correctly, it also means living in a world where nightmarish sensations beyond all natural comprehension are now possible.
if that couldnt be controlled, an obvious solution would be to not implement touch, or to make everything feel exactly the same, or to even give things a feeling only known in that virtual space. I get where your coming from, but its not like people don't think of the possible problems, and then in turn, think of as many possible solutions for said problem. fulldive may or may not be possible, but for this problem you are talking about, having safety features isnt the only solution to consider
@@Brooke_Miller_11-17 That's kind of my point though. How do you simply "not implement touch", or tailor feelings to be only how you want them? One way or another you're activating or deactivating neurons that have a set function and result from activation. For example, you can try to program your software to only trigger an input to the brain when touching something but never to activate the portion responsible for feeling heat or pain, but the actual result of what happens is entirely dependant on the precision and reliability of the hardware providing the input signals, as well as the users own unique physiology. The software might _try_ to gently activate the area of the brain that would give the desired result, but if it's not immaculately precise down to a cellular level, you might well be accidentally activating it's neighbours, or over/under stimulating, which could have all manner of different results.
So when it's all software, yeah, you just don't implement certain things. But this is a digital to analogue biological interface. There's no guarantee of things being "translated" correctly, and you can only program the intention, not the actual result. You're writing into a biological machine with lasting physical electrical and chemical consequences that can't just be rebooted to correct errors. Certain stimulations will trigger the release of hormones and (chemical) neurotransmitters, that once out in the blood stream, there's nothing the dive-gear can do to put them back.
I do understand that obviously any genuine attempts at creating such technology are far far beyond my armchair critic level of understanding, and that the experts developing such a thing would be as ingenious as ever in solving issues. But my point mainly is that people vastly overlook and underestimate the significance of physically manipulating a brains internal functions.
@@UnknownSquid I understand that, but I'm just saying, it wouldnt be on the market to consumers unless it was 100 percent safe, if i was the person making it, 10, 50, 100, to 1000 years from now, id probably either test it on myself and risk myself for its success and for the safety of all others, or get volunteers and educate them about how dangerous it could be before doing it (of course after all legal proceedings would be worked out) but anyway, i believe whenever this junk is even made, the tech of the future will be so much better, and perform so much better, that safety issues will barely be a problem (because along with technological advance, medical advancement would be happening too, and fulldive kind of goes hand in hand with neurology) tbh i think whoever does end up trying to do it, should definitely have gone to college for all studies of the human brain, and try to be well versed in it all, along with education with their own technology and how it might affect said brain, thay way if any misakes are made they could possibly be less dangerous
@@Brooke_Miller_11-17 Oh of course. It'd never manage to get to market without being entirely safe (Or at least safe enough that the side effects are slow and unable to be predicted). And that's part of the general point about whether it will or won't happen. And there is also always the chance for developments and new understanding of the brain to occur in future, that are simply beyond us right now, and might make the problems I'm describing a non-issue. But just in general, the average person underestimates the challenges involved, so so much.
Reading the brain, is where we'll see immediate and reasonable progress within our lifetime.
But writing to it... is so much more dangerous and profound than people give credit for.
@@UnknownSquid yeah i get that, im glad we could have this debate by the way, learning others opinions does give quite a bit more perspective and whatnot
I kind of disagree. What point is there in arguing that something probably won't happen? Innovation happens in rapid bursts all the time. Personally, I think the advent of quantum computers is going to completely redefine what we view as possible in a digital space.
there are a bunch of promising technologies which have the potential to cause such an event, not only quantum computing lol
You're forgetting the development of science and technology. You're basing your facts on if technology develops on a linear trend. The truth is that technology tends to develop on something that is reminiscent of a exponential trend and something that we see to be impossible today, might become acheiveable within a few years time.
ur completely right with that lol
think about it
people thought the man who created the first PC was insane but guess what... He made it!
Aite so...I know this video is a bit old in terms of tech advancement but...right off the bat; EEG's are definitely not the only BCI in development currently. EEG, as you have stated, do indeed have all the draw backs you mentioned in the video but will almost certainly not be how we will get to a full dive level VR (which we actually probably will get to in our lifetime). For that level of experience we would have to go directly to the brain, placing wires near to your neurons and getting a crystal clear reception of every neuron necessary for said experience. tipically this will include motor cortex and also the visual center of the brain.
Why do I think this to be true I hear you are ask? Well for starters lets look at the tech itself to get an idea of how far we really are from being able to full dive! First lets look back to 2016 where DARPA posted this video: ruclips.net/video/A4BR4Iqfy7w/видео.html in which they show off the capabilities of a primitive device on somebody with a physical impairment. Now mind you this was in 2016, a whole...6 YEARS AGO (holy shit...im old...) on a device that was for experimental/medical use only. Obviously we have progressed in the field a bit since then! though how far is yet to be seen because the only Simi-public facing BCI currently would be ol' musky's Neuralink (I don't particularly like muck but the device has shown considerable progress...that we know of). who know what china and various other developed counties are working on in secret till the sauce is ready.
But do you want to know the funniest part of all this is? None of that really matters, simply put it may take something like 20 years on the conservative side to have this tech be as mature as cellphones (frankly I doubt it will take that long...) but that only happens in a tech vacuum, where we only work on that with no outside influence. that's not how tech works; often times another breakthrough somewhere else might cause several breakthroughs else where. this is where A.I. comes in! now before you roll your eyes at me and dismiss what I have to say, hear me out!
A.I. has quite a few quotes associated with it; but by far my favorite is "Ai mankind's last invention" from the American author James Barrat. all it takes is for us to develop a good enough A.I. and that's it, the universe (even the digital ones) will be ours for the taking.
Now obviously nobody know the future, and I am no exception! but I personally think a human level A.I. is at most 5 years away. you may call me crazy but I ask you to check out some of the new AI developments announced recently and tell me they don't seem closer than ever before (specifically PaLM and DALL-E 2)
As for the social/safety concerns, yeah I agree, but you have to realize that we have laws, rules and regulations for such topics. You cant hack a pacemaker easily, and as far as I know nobody has yet. It is natural however to fear tampering with the brain, but that's exactly why they will be ever safer than other devices, because people will be SO put off by the idea in the first place. you wouldn't even need to put wires into those areas associated with feelings or thoughts, and just keep the wires only near the motor cortex and the visual centers of the brain.
here's the thing...this tech is coming despite everything negative you've mentioned. it sucks to say or rather type this, but the truth is, it may be dangerous or even shitty...but it will still exist in our lifetimes... good or bad.
anyway thanks for reading if you did! sorry for any mistakes!
Im curious what the future will bring!
way too long
@@OverbiteGames haha my timelines have certainly jumped up in the last year
I Understand this comment was made a year ago but you are 100% Right Nobody knows what the Future holds The future can be scary but also exciting anyway this was a Good Post Mate take my like!
@@Mirelan05YT thanks :)
Never is a long time my friend 😅.. but yes it's going to be awhile, but I think it's inevitable eventually if we are going to compete with AI.
That's more a brain uploading thing, but yeah, as terrifying as brain uploading is, it isn't nearly as terrifying as developing a powerful artificial general intelligence _without_ having any uploaded humans with the same capabilities.
@@JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles I don't understand how uploading your brain to a computer with work, that's like uploading your liver into a computer, it wouldn't be you it would just be an accurate simulation of you.
@@Tony-oh7eo There's a distinction here between "brain" the organ of the body and "brain" as in the stuff that happens in the brain, the thoughts and behaviors that make up a person. If you make an accurate simulation of the latter, you make a copy of it because it's not made out of material but... events, actions. If you accurately simulate an action, you copy that action, if you accurately simulate a thought, you copy that thought, if you build something that accurately simulates a persons thoughts, memories, personality, etc, you could be said to copy that person.
@@JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles but is that uploaded version of you still you?
@@Tony-oh7eo Doesn't really matter.
I swere that if i dont see full dive vr in my life time im even if gonna have to make more than 90% or even of my body robotic or more i will play with full dive vr.
And no one will stop me
yeah, but what are you gonna do when it rains dude
1. No one is saying it is going to happen tomorrow.
2. It actually will likely happen.
1. The number of people saying, "VR isn't ready yet, I'm waiting for full dive" is seemingly endless.
2. Compelling argument. Case closed I guess.
Hmmm I am not so sure, 25 years ago, a mobile device that could do everything our flagship phones now can do was not even considered possible , feasible, or by most large companies, something that people would want. My personal experience in medical R&D has enlightened me to the fact that, well we are just at the beginning of a medical renaissance. If you look at most branches of science , medicine is basically still in its infancy, really only having legs for the past 100 years or so. Both medical and computer sciences are exponentially developing, and what the world will look like in another 20 to 30 years... well its like those who tried predicting the future in the 70's , what we think it'll look like and what it's actually going to be , are probably going to be just as different as what people in the 70's thought the 2020's would look like. Elon musk makes one great point, we may not want a BCI in the future, but we may need it if we want to keep ourselves relevant to AI.
We are talking about disconnecting your brain from your body to play video games. Do you think states will allow this to happen ?
@@labonnelambda58 Yes they will. If the technology is ever invented, it'll 100% be used for military, space, etc. purposes by the government. Then eventually it'll reach the consumer market, just like computers did.
I think we'll have lightweight, essentially perfect physical headsets with movement controlled by our brains before full dive, but I wouldn't say it's not going to happen within the next 50 years or so.
The reasons people don't use VR now are because it's expensive, bulky, and imperfect. The same reasons people had for not using computers and the internet in their early years. It's getting cheaper tho, and so would full dive technology. ESPECIALLY with how beneficial it would be for corporations.
Clearly this guys hasn't done his research on big tech recently. They've actually figured it out lol. Making it affordable for your average middle class citizen however is another thing entirely. But I urge you, do not make content without doing your research on some of the big tech breakthroughs. You'll kill what little followers you have.
What followers, look at the thumbnail, all his views are from the clickbait, not "followers"
@@ys2b712 very true lol
I saw the same thing with the quantified self and biohacking crowd around the 2010s - the hype was real but tech could (and will probably never) keep up with those expectations. BCI and Full Dive is - although highly improbable - still a very cool philosophical tool to discuss what reality/actuality and our selves are. Brings up discussions on mind and lived+objectified body that have been stagnating in the past!
Gen x thought vr wasn’t possible yet here we are… also the neuralink chip could help because it can send brain waves in the brain for example to not have a seizure or a lot of different stuff but sending signals touch is still tech still far but people are getting there maybe 10 years or more idk I don’t work on that stuff so don’t think I’m right but there still might be a chance and there is a vr headset that can read brain waves but not send so we’ve made a bunch of progress over the year there was this one guy that had his spine and brain connected though bluetooth so we’re getting closer slowly but surely give it 5 years and we will be way closer to it and one project raised so much money I’m talking millons but failed so if that doesn’t show there’s a big market I don’t know what will
Yeah 9 months later and I’m completely against nerve gear… how times change
Its like creating artificial lucid dream
> while I'm sure there's some transhumanist biohacker screaming at the screen right now
ah so you knew I'd be watching
gottem
I think the closest we can ethically get to full dive is haptic skin suits. And as these things get more intimate, the more important it is for it to be not proprietary.
as someone who's been in the vr space since playing doom, far cry primal and dying light in 2013 with a google cardboard and syncing my mouse movement to my head. and as someone who's been dreaming of life in vr since watching matrix when i was 4, i gotta say, i dont ever want full dive.
one of my favorite things about vr is that, the physical skills i use and learn are real. i pull off a crazy move in a game, i pulled that off by physically being able to do it irl. i want that. if my vr life was fulldive, i would be destroying my body with inactivity. spending all day everyday laying in my bed.
i would instead just love to be physically fit and very much capable of doing the things irl that i do in game.
This won't age well within the next decade 🤣
Just give the defence industry a reason to utilize it & it will appear soon 😅, endless neuralink bot conflicts
Thanks for a really great video. I don't often comment, but I really wanted to say how much the citations and source document is appreciated. Plenty of hugely popular channels don't bother with them, and I think It's criminal how little attention this is getting despite the quality of the writing and research.
You would be right about it not happening if the people with the power to do it actually cared about their consumers, you're speaking of how reality should be vs what will actually happen and that is that somebody stands to make an absurd amount of money from developing Full Dive VR, and we all know what happens when an idea is "not safe" but will still make a bunch of money. And seriously I thought you would give real technical points as to why it's not possible, you said "Full dive vr would have to link your brain to the internet, yOu dON't wAnT tHaT", that's not a reason it won't happen, that's your personal opinion and morals that do not apply to us that live in the real world. "Full dive vr isn't an entertainment device , it's mind control" Where are you from? Do you not know like anything about america? The fact that you feel compelled to make a video on why you think something won't happen passing it off as why it won't happen should show you how much your mind is already controlled. Do you think Columbus discovered america?
Spitting facts my Bro
i would love to here more of your thoughts on this
This guy's opinion 🤮
The people who actually do research and have actual based facts 😎🤝😎
Neurolink was approved for trails
You talk big my man. The creativity of humanity can left you surprised.
Well said (and well said by those in comments too).
The path forward is some sort of skin-tight suit with micro bubbles which can individually fill up to create pressures all over, and heat up. I imagine these suits will be mass producible like OLED screens are today, using some natural chemical processes.
Other than that our imaginations will be pushed to immerse ourselves more.
I love how while I would have definitely disagreed with it before too, looking at it even 5 months later truly has me confident it will happen in this lifetime. In fact, I do not believe this is even among the first things that will be done when the technology to make it possible exists, but looking at the progression of technology and where technology is moving to, we will reach technology beyond fulldive in this century, so then making fulldive wouldn't be considered remotely problematic.
Care to elaborate on what has convinced you full dive will be quickly achieved? Also what technology do you think will surpass full dive?
@@nahometesfay1112 I don't believe it will be quickly achieved, but I believe it will be achieved within 70 years. The advancements in AI is one of the most convincing points to me. In graphic research, AI is evolving really fast, enough to replace a lot of difficult work, from tracking to rendering, passing by animation. Even labeling, which is one of the slowest parts of working with AI was solved recently by NVIDIA (they made an AI which could be trained with 16 labeled images, and was able to correctly understand the concepts and label images of the same things themselves). AI is very little cheap in computational power and can do lifelike approximations of a lot of tasks. This is the defining factor to me. It is a field that is not limited by humans' ability to create, as it leverages human innovation to do more.
And I think that fulldive is fundamentally limited by its format. If you have the ability to read and write to the brain as well as manage the information that is sent to the body, there is no true interest to making it in an exclusive format. If you think about it, AR will be integrated into our lives long before Fulldive. In fact, even brain interfaces might be too (with neuralink for example), so there are high chances we have access to brain interfaces games long before fulldive becomes a reality.
So just like VR came as a feature extension to the support known as computers, it's likely that the technologies used in fulldive will be first used on AR & brain interfaces. It would make sense to try it first on a mainstream support.
Of course, there would be nothing stopping humans from adding fulldive as a feature of high-end brain interfaces, a "fullscreen" mode of sorts that you could use after laying down on your bed or in your autonomous car.
@@Exilum Everytime someone says some technology will be developed in 100 years it actually ends up being 50 or so. so, 70 years could very well be in 35 years more or less.
@@richinhoberl1ndo496 Of course. I made an amateur estimate with the little I know. But then, I also saw qualified experts who thought barely 2 years ago that a lot of things papers now do with AI wouldn't be possible for over a decade, so... The conclusion is technology is basically impossible to predict, and as financial disclaimers say, past performance does not guarantee future results.
@@Exilum The more advanced a technology is the faster it will advance.
Good stuff! Agree that there's some 'simple' solutions to increasing immersion, largely the more basic trickery of the senses like you've covered. There a noticeable difference in weight and comfort from the original (pre-weight shedding) HTC VIVE and the most recent headsets, even. Comfort and lack of impact on your 'real world' senses, outside of the VR experience, have a large effect that most don't seem to consider! Things like the SlimeVR lightweight trackers are another good direction.
There's a difference between immersion and completely merging the two realities, and the idea of BCIs as a VR control mechanism is scarily far into the latter.
Idk, I'd still rather have an SAO like experience rather than a Ready player one like experience but thats just me. Although, in terms of it happening in my lifetime I'm fine with having (RPO) like tech because having something is better than having nothing. Also on the topic of immersion, I don't think just being able to use all your senses in a virtual world means two realities are merging, it just means that technology is at a level that your fully immersed in whatever it is that you're doing.
It isn’t impossible, when the car was designed, everyone had previously thought it was impossible. Human live on technology. I am sure that one day the time will come.
If I get to live in a world as long as I want to, like in the Black Mirror episode San Junipero, with my amazingly gorgeous partner, I’d be in line to go there like tomorrow.
I hate this world which was made the way it is no thanks to idiots and their wars that involve us good people, or the death and destruction of nature due to to rich asshole….I want to leave that behind.
In a heart beat!!
SILENCE!!!!! SAO WILL BE REAL!!!!
I hope so
**crying intensives**
I’m pretty sure people in the year 2000 would say the ps5 is cutting edge tech despite the gap being 22 years I wouldn’t say FDVR is “never gonna happen.” Within a 22 year gap companies like PlayStation have been able to make consoles specs go up dramatically I’m pretty sure someone like you said the same thing 22 years ago “why consoles will never have photo realistic graphics.”
As someone who is relatively young with DBS, the risks you mention are more often associated with older people, and are typically more to do with memory than it being fatal or debilitating. Calibrating the device has been the most challenging part of it, as your brain adjusts in ways that is counter-productive to it's function and currently there is no way to automatically compensate.
If i saw this video 2 years ago, i would agree. However, seeing how fast the technology is currently progressing, and the fact that neuralink got fda approved to try human trials, i wouldn't say it's impossible in our lifetime. If neuralink succeeds, then i will have no doubts about full dive vr happening in my lifetime.
Good on you for getting rid of that "never" in the title. Honestly, if you could accurately predict the technological progress for the next 30, let alone 50-80 years, there would likely be a LOT of people who would like a moment of your time.
It's going to happen. Just not in our lifetime. Try idea that it's not necessary is absurd. There is a rather large market for immortality.
My thought was always how do you even begin to code a object into someone’s view?
Then if it wouldn't....then I'd turn to reality shifting then...pffft
Shows how bad people want to escape reality...and that's something I always wanted to do
Let's be honest. Just like video and streaming technology and many other technologies the future of VR will be funded by porn.
I somewhat agree but at the same time I also get a good look at the snowball that is machine learning and it makes me think some of the issues you bring up are far more solvable than you think. For instance, with a tech like this, the creation of a specialized implant device/robot would be perfectly reasonable and drastically reduce the costs and risks, we don't really see this now because we don't really have a major surgery that literally 100% of the population would want/need to incentivize/justify it's creation. The ethical issues of its development would also go out the window starting with the cases of disease you mention, followed by more and more issues, particularly surrounding the elderly, until the tech is ubiquitous enough that the thought of casual installation becomes socially and morally acceptable.
Hopefully this will progress fast enough that we can be some of said elderly people and can enjoy an extended life/quality of life in our old age as a result.
lol i can’t wait for that man to be wrong 🤣
There is the halfdive and elon musk’s brain chip coming in 2022
Under normal tech trajectories, I agree full dive VR is unlikely in our lifetimes. If Ray Kurzweil and Nick Bostrom are right, though, and we end up with a superintelligent AI singularity that can rapidly improve itself (and it doesn't kill us), that could greatly accelerate the development of this kind of technology, including molecular nanotechnology.
I was a skeptic, myself, until I saw some of the new general AI work coming out this year like Deepmind Gato.
Honestly this video is great. The idea of deep dive is terrifying me. I feel like people seriously underestimate how crucial to our agency the choice of whether to interact or input data is, a choice that is already being increasingly undermined by both private and governmental surveillance.
Do you think elon musk’s neuralink will allow us to have a game adventure just with our minds with no use of peripherals?
id be really worried about the security of full dive. maybe its because i just finished cyberpunk 2077, but i can see someones brain getting fried because of hackers.
"it's not a bug it's a feature" - kaiaba
they'd probably have a way to prevent that, like a shock strip for you computer when zues decides you dont need to have one anymore
Hello!
I'll be doing a Q&A *tonight* (9/8) about this video at 10PM EST on my Twitch channel: twitch.tv/straszgaming.
Hope you enjoy this one. It's a little cynical. :P
Dude, neuralink exists, bruh...
And as I remember, it should be able to do these stuff...
Neurallink only allows you to control a device with your brain, and it isn't too good but gets the job done for disabled people that can only move their eyes. It doesn't input sensory touch, smell, taste, hearing, or touch. They do plan and want to do that, tho they have ways to go till they can do that. I personally think it will be in our lifetime based on how fast technology is progressing, it's rapidly getting better and getting better faster.
@@kiojon2255 I know, that's what I'm tryin' to say
You would have to connect to every part of the brain. Consciousness and identity are interwoven into all the neurons of the brain. Difficult to connect to I agree.
Bruh half dive VR is coming out December 6th 2021 so full dive vr will be out the next decade or so
car,airplane, and other crap seems impossible in 1700s
Fulldive VR will happen as soon as quantum computers reach the consumer market, which isn't that far off.
By the way, flying cars are already a thing. Slovakia recently got the green light from the European Aviation Safety Agency to start mass producing their flying car.
Quantum computers aren't the miracle technology to replace classical computers that you think it is, because of how they function they are likely to remain very specialised for solving certain types of problems. Plus I don't get what that has to do with vr.
Perhaps if it induced you into a state of paralysis whilst you had the head mounted display on and then you had other peripheries that detect when the brain is trying to send signals to certain parts for movement ?
After watching sao a few years back I got hyped about full dive
Now after reading sao progressive I got hyped again
It is time to take a deep breath and relax
Maybe it is childish, but I am a child.
Dont worry it's not guaranteed that full dive wont be possible. And neuralink's comming at the end of the year and they have mass tested it.
Thoooo the surgery is expected to be 1000$ and you might need to travel to another country to get acess to it. + The number of people trying to get it.
Full dive might be impossible in our lifetime but a crude vr version that stimulates all your senses is theoratically possible with current technology, from feeling to smelling to seeing and even tasting and hearing...... basically you don't need to hack into your brain you can do something way easier and hack everything outside of it and get something as good as full dive as far as anyone knows.
I mean our brain is great at filling in blanks, if you lead it on with just enough sensations in the right spots it can trick itself into thinking the real thing.
Yeah. I think the real thing blocking us from having full dive in our lifetimes is that the current technology, which I have to emphasize as you said that it exists, is invasive, and unless we have a huge scientific breakthrough that disproves our knowledge in this space entirely will remain such. Which was brought up in this video, but I think this video is severely underestimating the hype and sheer amount of people who are already surgically "self-hacking" themselves with shit like literally injecting chips like nfc tags into their brain and lining up to do even more advanced surgeries.
Plus as the singularity hits, which could very well happen in our lifetimes, technology will grow at a currently unfathomable pace.
Also, this video makes assumptions about what areas of the brain it would and could interface with and how much controll full dive would have. Most research in the sensory stimuli space involves interfacing not at the brain, but at the points of the senses. The wrists for the hands (not how you think, check it out), the nose for your smell, your tongue for your taste, etc. Why would we expect full-dive to be exactly like SAO just because SAO led to the term?
I can not sit through 20 mins of a recap literally explaining what vr is. Too much filler. Your wrong.
the thought of playing vrc and seeing the 4 groups:
desktop, headset, fbt, full dive
just the thought of full dive being possible in a game like vrc is halarious to me.
I don’t recall watching a video where every. single. claim. is just completely wrong. I started writing a long response detailing what where and how it’s all just untrue, but then if the creator has so little respect for his audience why should I waste my time.
this aged well 😂
(coming back to this in 100 years)
This is like tesla's wireless power, the people that support it don't comprehend the consequences of such devices and those consequences are the reason why we don't use wireless power commercially or residentially, even though the devices currently exist. just to get our foot in the door to true neural link levels of VR we would have to have major governmental, and ethical changes culturally. First, most human rights would have to just disappear/signed away due to the risks of the device alone.
I am a neurobiologist and this video is spot on. Like you can muse all day on how science works in leap and there are big breakthrough but those considerations always feel like they are from an outsider perspective on how bad we actually are at any biological and even what are the physical limits of computation in general. Like flying cars as imagined in the 80s are order of magnitudes more feasible then than what full dive vr will be in 20 years, in a future where quantum computer or ny other misunderstood oracle-like technology exists.
the reason theres no flying cars is because its a awful idea, we can barely use regular cars without slamming into eachother
i agree i reckon atleast 100 years till you can ski in the french alps in a full dive. people like to think how quick tech gets better but its been like 25 years since a ps2. best we can hope for is decent level immersion and clarity for a game like gta 6 in vr
AGI could possibly make it a reality in our lifetime
I think it's a good thing, to look at the past and call ourselves foolish, BECAUSE OMG ELONGATED MUSK
made something that could possibly bring us closer to full dive, or atleast half dive, no hate to you btw just a friendly comment! :D
*all I'm interested in is Mobile VR 👌 a McDonalds ad while I'm on my death bed is not what I'm looking forward to* 😂
I feel like after watching this you're thinking of our current technology and not what is most likely going to be in the next 10-20 years. Will we most likey have "full dive" in the sense of SAO terms in the next 10 years unlikely as all hell without a form of intrusive device. Now, 15-20 years from now and I think the story is very different. These devices aren't moving at a linear rate they are moving exponentially. I would imagine in the next 5-10 years to see a kind of mid-way to "full-dive" and in my eyes the best of both worlds. This would be the ability to move and do things using your brain but, having the external tech to manage what would take intrusive BCI's to do. Project Galea is something that we will most likely see a push for the enthusiast side of the market as what it's supposed to offer should gravitate more towards that. Not, at all saying, Galea will provide locomotion as its kind of been more from the sounds of it anyway to be used for level design and actions to occur based on the user's feelings and things. However, to get to the point of locomotion being possible with a BCI large-scale data collection is need, in order to form a, AI that can manage the data and use it as inputs for the appropriate thing. This is just my opinion but, current tech in 20 years will be what the early 2000s is to us now. All I'm saying is saying it's never going to happen or will not be in our lifetime is unrealistic (I mean I guess it depends on your age but, you know). Maybe a "full dive" like SAO won't be but, there will definitely be something in that realm that can be considered "full dive".
In 1890 they said humans will never be able to fly no matter if its with a machine, 20 year slater the wright brothers proved them wrong.
I mean it's basically just like a persistent multiplayer lucid dream. Those first two steps alone are already possible.
I imagine with future advancement in bci technology that we will be able to record dreams and even be able to allow for joining of two or more dreamscapes, likely using a code or something. There's probably even the possibility creating games specifically to play in dreams. Either way if shared dreaming doesn't become a thing at least we have dream recording to look forward to
staszfiles, to some agree, I understand your skepticism about predictive algorithms. While you discuss the potential downsides of invasive advertising and brain scans in the context of full dive VR, I believe that despite your video being over a year old, the reality is different. Discovering your content was not coincidental, as it appeared in my recommendations due to its relevance. The irony lies in your title "full dive VR isn't happening in our lifetime," because corporations already possess substantial information about us. Even on closed systems like Plex, your episode was within my top 10 RUclips recommendations. Flex, to my knowledge, doesn't share data without consent, but somehow, the system managed to suggest your video after I watched the anime "full dive." This occurrence highlights how corporations seem to understand us more deeply than we realize. Even though with the information below somehow someway the system knows I watch that show on my own server and matched me with your RUclips episode there's credence and then there's a problem
Plex is designed to respect user privacy. Your media files stored on your own server are not shared with the outside world by Plex. However, keep in mind that certain features, like the metadata retrieval, may involve connections to online databases. It's always a good practice to review Plex's privacy settings and policies to ensure your preferences are respected.
I'm really enjoying these talking essays. VR and VR chat in particular appears to be a fascinating social melting pot frontier, that might be time limited. I'd love to chat with you in VR sum time
I think myself with my own experiences with the full dive vr system is quite possible in our lifetimes as many university’s including my own I’m going to in October already have simulated experiences for people who can sleep and their dreams be manipulated by outside tech via external bci systems and it’s already being used in medical and military apparatus so I think it is quite possible but it would need all university and bci companies working together to achieve the goal by the time it released in the anime Sao as recently as 2016 we identified quite a lot of the areas in our brain so it’s possible but it would take a lot of commitment and effort by all universities and governments
Well it definitely needs a gpu and market now is fucked for a year we barely able servive this and it's gonna last 2 years so yeah ...
This week the company ElectroLux bricked a large number of their wifi enabled smart microwaves because someone fat fingered a value in an Over The Air update. Let's apply this to BCI's. Imagine losing the ability to control your bowels for several weeks because an intern pushed an update without testing it. Imagine being at the grocery store and seeing people stroking out because someone fat fingered a value in a firmware update.
We can agree to disagree
the people who want this so bad their angry at the uploader are hilarious to me. do you really want to be a system that has to continuously control your vital functions while you sleep just so you can live your SAO kirito fantasy ? like do you really trust a system to 1. put you to "sleep", 2. keep your heart/lungs/brain functioning, 3. not potentially damage you, 4. trust to tell you when its time to eat/sleep/shit ? I'd way prefer something that just used advanced BCI over something that required me to full dive.
Their is no definite answer. This can unironically happen in a few years , maybe even a few decades , even a 100 years. People a day before the airplane was created were saying “Air flight” = Never gonna happen and is a dream. I think it’ll happen relatively soon , but not as “advanced” but once again theirs no definite answer