20:40 I don't think there is a mistake in wasting mana there. Using Karn on the Refractor does not give it the Griffin creature type necessary for the combo. Only using the Mutavault ability does, so either way a Mutavault activation would have been necessary to go for it.
56:01 I just pulled up the replay. My 11 card hand at that point is: Entomb, Exhume, Ponder, Brainstorm, 3x Force, Feed the Swarm, Tarn, Sheoldred's Edict, Otawara. I was figuring out optimal sequencing of Brainstorm vs Ponder vs Entomb / Exhume. With the second (and last) Archon gone, Atraxa was the pick to give 10 looks at Emrakul. Proper sequence was probably Brainstorm, fetch, Ponder, Entomb (Atraxa), Exhume (Atraxa). That gives me 3 / 28, then 4 / 26, then 10/25 looks to find Emrakul. I do not have a fresh draw 7 because Grizzledaddy never connects with Maze of Ith up. Finding another cantrip + Lim-Dul's Vault off Atraxa is almost deterministic there too with ~20ish (depending on unique Atraxa hits and takes) cards in library and 4 life to spare.
Around 10:00 when resolving Realms Uncharted, you say Lotus Field isn't good because of Wasteland and Flickerwisp, but it has hexproof. Apologies if this is observed later.
@@BoshNRoll at 17:12 rotate for sanctum is lethal because manascape refractor lets you activate with mana as though it were any color, so you dont need black mana
Unless I am missing something I think you may have had lethal at 16:10, activate the mutavault ability of manascape, buff it to a 20/20, and crop rotate for the starlit sanctum, you can use the fact that you can use mana as if it were any color to activate the sacrifice a cleric ability to dome them for 20. This line is weak to solitude I think, though if they solitude the manascape I think you can still make it infinitely big in response depending on the line you take. Awesome video, I love this combo existing!
Niche but important timeclock consideration: When you are in a situation where you have the giant griffin, but can't kill immediately because the opponent can chump block, you don't HAVE to make your griffin lethal before attacking. You can make it just big enough to win combat, attack, and if the opponent for some reason chooses not to block, then you can take all the extra clicks to make it lethal. I think this is worse specifically against Swords/Solitude because you lose access to arbitrary life gain, but in every other matchup it saves a lot of time for no downside.
Fun piece of Game Theory "If we're both Wastelanding each other one of us is wrong" is not necessarily true: If you wasting them puts you from 50% ==> 90% to win, and them wasting you put's it back down to 60% then (even if you know this) you should waste them, then they should waste you. A similar thing can apply depending on if you"re going for consistent win vs. high roll win. (Which is the both players choose to be on the draw situation)
Thanks! I was really thinking about this one.. My understanding of basic chess openings/endgames is that, at least as far as "classical" chess where the metagame steers towards trading off each piece in pursuit of a better board state, that the player with fewer pieces is losing the trades of attrition. Like, if I have 7 cards and you have 6, and we all discard 6, then I always come out ahead. MTG meta is obv different than chess with the same starting position, so knowing your deck's meta (consistent vs high roll) is a cool angle that I hadn't considered
One thing I really enjoyed about this deck is that a secret hidden mode on the Safehouse and Refractor is "Tap to add one mana". It came up a few times where just being a slow ramp piece was an important contributor to the game.
Already from the decklist this looks much more reasonable, mirran safehouse is the blan B to getting wastelanded which will happen 100% but this way its a do it or die scenario, and the main piece the refractor has timing downside which sucks heavly but getting a 3 mana artifact in is a tall order regardless wheter its safehouse or refractor. Now lands are not stuck in your hand and once people know to expect this the suprise value drops off heavily. Just worried that people will out aggro this but its bound to happen that a deck like this gets turn 1'd. Its also real nice that you can sidestep fully in either direction with the refractor in the sideboard.
It seemed like the stress points were protection and mana. Cards like soul lands and defense grids instead of the slow lands stuff might be good. It would work better with everything the deck is currently trying to accomplish, ie 3 mana artifacts, urzas saga, karn etc. City of traitors, exploration and loam work very well together and it makes the artifacts tap for double mana which the deck seems hungry for.
Huh I just uploaded an incredibly similar set of decks on tapped out 1-2 weeks ago Also I didn't see it in the deck tech but maybe it comes up in the rest of the video. You can use thespian's stage to also combo with mutavault and Griffin canyon. If you have thespian copy a mutavault before your turn. Then on your turn activate thespian's mutavault ability and in response copy a griffin canyon, you can use your actual canyon to untap thespian and then have thespian go off from there. It's incredibly tedious but it is probably worth knowing if you play this deck seriously for a while.
It seems like the deck really needs a land that can give evasion to the muta-griffin - Sejiri Steppe, Skarrg, Soaring Seacliff, or Access Tunnel potentially?
Quick note in case no one has made the comment AND it doesn’t come up in gameplay, but Safehouse and Refractor can’t gain hexproof from Lotus Field, because they only gain activated abilities.
Idk if I said something confusing because there were more than one comment about this. I know the artifacts don’t get hexproof, just want them to tap for a ton of mana.
@@BoshNRoll During the deck tech (5:32), you bring up Lotus Field in the context of The Book of Exalted Deeds and say Mirran Safehouse and Manascape Refractor have all its abilities, without specifying that it's just the activated ones. Of course, this was with respect to producing the WWW for casting and activating The Book, but, paired with an assumption that the target for The Book will be the artifact animated with Mutavault's ability, one could incorrectly assume that your enlightened counter would end up on not just a noncreature permanent but a HEXPROOF noncreature permanent. While some Legacy decks can remove a noncreature Mutavault and some Legacy decks can remove a noncreature artifact, no Legacy decks can remove a hexproof noncreature, at least not in the mainboard. EDIT: Also, at 0:48 you omit the "activated" part of the text on Mirran Safehouse.
With the benefit of Refractor being that you can spend mana as though it were mana of any color to activate Refractor's abilities, couldn't you have gone for the Rotate-Sanctum line here anyway? Tap the forest for green, rotate into sanctum, use the colorless mana off of sanctum to activate Refractor to fling itself?
Not sure why we're playing all these singleton lands, and we don't have a field of the dead in the main. Feels like it would be good tech against all the low-to-the-ground creature decks.
I feel like Field is waaay too cute for a deck that's already full of cute things. 8 mulch can get away with it due to having 8 mulch effects to snag lands and mana bond (with Explore as backup) to dump them. Bant has Uro for repeatable draw, life gain AND acceleration (plus, it's a control deck that wants to go late). This deck only has Loam to really draw lands? And two gifts, I guess, but those are combo pieces really.
With this being a deck relying on a big creature doing a single swing, why is there not at least 1 Sejiri Steppe in the deck? You have the crop rots for it. I think 1 is probably the right number though because you don’t have anything extra tutors.
Um ... Brian ... Lotus Field doesn't work with Safehouse/Refractor ... they only gain all *activated* abilities of Lands in Graveyards. You could of course use Thespian's Stage to copy the Mutavault and then Copy the Lotus Field but that seems clunkier than necessary and is fairly mana intensive.
Maybe playing 1 miss in the test lobby first..you don't even have to finish it. Just learning the options will keep you from going into time and maybe reduce losses.
20:40 I don't think there is a mistake in wasting mana there. Using Karn on the Refractor does not give it the Griffin creature type necessary for the combo. Only using the Mutavault ability does, so either way a Mutavault activation would have been necessary to go for it.
Was thinking the same thing
56:01 I just pulled up the replay. My 11 card hand at that point is:
Entomb, Exhume, Ponder, Brainstorm, 3x Force, Feed the Swarm, Tarn, Sheoldred's Edict, Otawara.
I was figuring out optimal sequencing of Brainstorm vs Ponder vs Entomb / Exhume. With the second (and last) Archon gone, Atraxa was the pick to give 10 looks at Emrakul. Proper sequence was probably Brainstorm, fetch, Ponder, Entomb (Atraxa), Exhume (Atraxa). That gives me 3 / 28, then 4 / 26, then 10/25 looks to find Emrakul. I do not have a fresh draw 7 because Grizzledaddy never connects with Maze of Ith up. Finding another cantrip + Lim-Dul's Vault off Atraxa is almost deterministic there too with ~20ish (depending on unique Atraxa hits and takes) cards in library and 4 life to spare.
Archon will put you up to 8 (and draw another card) when attacking, so you have even more chances to hit
Around 10:00 when resolving Realms Uncharted, you say Lotus Field isn't good because of Wasteland and Flickerwisp, but it has hexproof. Apologies if this is observed later.
Yeah good call. Huge brain fart there. Hexproof is the whole point of Lotus Field.
@@BoshNRoll at 17:12 rotate for sanctum is lethal because manascape refractor lets you activate with mana as though it were any color, so you dont need black mana
Unless I am missing something I think you may have had lethal at 16:10, activate the mutavault ability of manascape, buff it to a 20/20, and crop rotate for the starlit sanctum, you can use the fact that you can use mana as if it were any color to activate the sacrifice a cleric ability to dome them for 20. This line is weak to solitude I think, though if they solitude the manascape I think you can still make it infinitely big in response depending on the line you take. Awesome video, I love this combo existing!
bosh pack smoke em if you got em
This deck made me enter an MTG refractory period.
High praise!
"has all lands of all abili-" love it
Niche but important timeclock consideration: When you are in a situation where you have the giant griffin, but can't kill immediately because the opponent can chump block, you don't HAVE to make your griffin lethal before attacking. You can make it just big enough to win combat, attack, and if the opponent for some reason chooses not to block, then you can take all the extra clicks to make it lethal. I think this is worse specifically against Swords/Solitude because you lose access to arbitrary life gain, but in every other matchup it saves a lot of time for no downside.
accurate
Only works if he can leave the gryphon land up, since the refractor/sanctuary needs to tap to untap itself. Still relevant, but not as simple
The birbs are back in the town!
Fun piece of Game Theory "If we're both Wastelanding each other one of us is wrong" is not necessarily true:
If you wasting them puts you from 50% ==> 90% to win, and them wasting you put's it back down to 60% then (even if you know this) you should waste them, then they should waste you.
A similar thing can apply depending on if you"re going for consistent win vs. high roll win. (Which is the both players choose to be on the draw situation)
Thanks! I was really thinking about this one..
My understanding of basic chess openings/endgames is that, at least as far as "classical" chess where the metagame steers towards trading off each piece in pursuit of a better board state, that the player with fewer pieces is losing the trades of attrition.
Like, if I have 7 cards and you have 6, and we all discard 6, then I always come out ahead.
MTG meta is obv different than chess with the same starting position, so knowing your deck's meta (consistent vs high roll) is a cool angle that I hadn't considered
One thing I really enjoyed about this deck is that a secret hidden mode on the Safehouse and Refractor is "Tap to add one mana". It came up a few times where just being a slow ramp piece was an important contributor to the game.
That thing is a piece of art.
I do believe copying a land with Thespian Stage ability on Manascape Refactor makes it become 'just a land'.
I think it keeps the thespian stage ability but loses all the others, not entirely sure
Already from the decklist this looks much more reasonable, mirran safehouse is the blan B to getting wastelanded which will happen 100% but this way its a do it or die scenario, and the main piece the refractor has timing downside which sucks heavly but getting a 3 mana artifact in is a tall order regardless wheter its safehouse or refractor. Now lands are not stuck in your hand and once people know to expect this the suprise value drops off heavily. Just worried that people will out aggro this but its bound to happen that a deck like this gets turn 1'd. Its also real nice that you can sidestep fully in either direction with the refractor in the sideboard.
It seemed like the stress points were protection and mana. Cards like soul lands and defense grids instead of the slow lands stuff might be good. It would work better with everything the deck is currently trying to accomplish, ie 3 mana artifacts, urzas saga, karn etc. City of traitors, exploration and loam work very well together and it makes the artifacts tap for double mana which the deck seems hungry for.
This is a good one my brotha 👍
Huh I just uploaded an incredibly similar set of decks on tapped out 1-2 weeks ago
Also I didn't see it in the deck tech but maybe it comes up in the rest of the video. You can use thespian's stage to also combo with mutavault and Griffin canyon.
If you have thespian copy a mutavault before your turn. Then on your turn activate thespian's mutavault ability and in response copy a griffin canyon, you can use your actual canyon to untap thespian and then have thespian go off from there.
It's incredibly tedious but it is probably worth knowing if you play this deck seriously for a while.
It seems like the deck really needs a land that can give evasion to the muta-griffin - Sejiri Steppe, Skarrg, Soaring Seacliff, or Access Tunnel potentially?
Ah, midnight boshnroll again now that daylight savings is finished
Quick note in case no one has made the comment AND it doesn’t come up in gameplay, but Safehouse and Refractor can’t gain hexproof from Lotus Field, because they only gain activated abilities.
Idk if I said something confusing because there were more than one comment about this. I know the artifacts don’t get hexproof, just want them to tap for a ton of mana.
@@BoshNRoll During the deck tech (5:32), you bring up Lotus Field in the context of The Book of Exalted Deeds and say Mirran Safehouse and Manascape Refractor have all its abilities, without specifying that it's just the activated ones. Of course, this was with respect to producing the WWW for casting and activating The Book, but, paired with an assumption that the target for The Book will be the artifact animated with Mutavault's ability, one could incorrectly assume that your enlightened counter would end up on not just a noncreature permanent but a HEXPROOF noncreature permanent. While some Legacy decks can remove a noncreature Mutavault and some Legacy decks can remove a noncreature artifact, no Legacy decks can remove a hexproof noncreature, at least not in the mainboard.
EDIT: Also, at 0:48 you omit the "activated" part of the text on Mirran Safehouse.
At this point we should start a scoreboard between BoshNRoll and Joe.
Joe who? /genuine
@@noneofyourbusiness4133 Joe_L in round 3.
With the benefit of Refractor being that you can spend mana as though it were mana of any color to activate Refractor's abilities, couldn't you have gone for the Rotate-Sanctum line here anyway? Tap the forest for green, rotate into sanctum, use the colorless mana off of sanctum to activate Refractor to fling itself?
Ah, I now understand what you said yesterday, that was a kicking for sure lol
I suppose that was technically last week but eh
LETS GOOOO
This was so rough to watch. I really enjoyed this combo the last time you played it, but I wonder if the meta shift has made it less viable?
Not sure why we're playing all these singleton lands, and we don't have a field of the dead in the main. Feels like it would be good tech against all the low-to-the-ground creature decks.
I feel like Field is waaay too cute for a deck that's already full of cute things. 8 mulch can get away with it due to having 8 mulch effects to snag lands and mana bond (with Explore as backup) to dump them. Bant has Uro for repeatable draw, life gain AND acceleration (plus, it's a control deck that wants to go late). This deck only has Loam to really draw lands? And two gifts, I guess, but those are combo pieces really.
With this being a deck relying on a big creature doing a single swing, why is there not at least 1 Sejiri Steppe in the deck? You have the crop rots for it. I think 1 is probably the right number though because you don’t have anything extra tutors.
I feel like the gutting of the urza’s saga toolbox is the big loss of this deck
Um ... Brian ... Lotus Field doesn't work with Safehouse/Refractor ... they only gain all *activated* abilities of Lands in Graveyards.
You could of course use Thespian's Stage to copy the Mutavault and then Copy the Lotus Field but that seems clunkier than necessary and is fairly mana intensive.
What do you mean? Mana abilities are activated abilities. I’m not trying to get hexproof, I’m tapping for 3 mana
@@BoshNRoll when you were talking about book of Exalted Deeds in the Deck Tech, you said you could give the artifacts Hexproof via Field.
@@clawtooth35 He was just talking about using Lotus Field to pay WWW for the book
Any reason this deck doesn't crucible/excavator? I understand loam also fills the grave for a turbo effect.. but that also feeds a crucible
Hello!
Hi
No Tabernacle in the deck?
Seems like a good include ...
Did you text Joe L your decklist pregame?
Didn’t need it
Maybe playing 1 miss in the test lobby first..you don't even have to finish it. Just learning the options will keep you from going into time and maybe reduce losses.