What Happens When You Give A Hero TOO High Of A Skill Ceiling
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
- Please like and subscribe :)
Baptiste is simultaneously the best and worst hero in the game. Probably
Twitch: / amaterasu184 (Will sometimes use)
Twitter (Not sure if I'll actually use): / amaterasu184
Timestamps
00:00 - Subscribe or I will hide baptiste up my ass
01:10 - The impossible challenge min-maxing baptiste
04:08 - The hardest skill to master as Baptiste
05:44 - Abilities that do more under certain conditions
09:31 - The problem with having an insanely high skill cap
11:46 - Balancing the Baptiste
Please like and subscribe if you're interested in more long form content like this, I'll be trying to make more as well as some other kinds of overwatch related content going forwards.
#overwatch #overwatch2
Hello, my name is Amaterasu and I'm a Top 500 support player. I started this channel after falling into the Overwatch 2 content rabbit hole and watching a lot of videos by top overwatch streamers and content creators like Marblr, Super, KarQ, Flats, Emongg, Jay3, ZBRA, among many others. Hopefully you enjoy these videos of mine.
Tags:
Overwatch, Overwatch 2, Competitive, Ranked, Grandmaster, Long-form discussion, T500, Overwatch 2 Top 500, Gaming, Top Overwatch Streamers, Streamers, Top 500, Overwatch 2 Competitive, Overwatch 2 Ranked, overwatch 2 tips, Overwatch Tips, Overwatch Guide, Overwatch Tricks, Overwatch Hot Takes, Overwatch Drama, Overwatch Discussion, Overwatch Analysis, Overwatch 2 Tips and Tricks, Overwatch 2 Season 6, Overwatch 2 Season 7, Overwatch 2 Invasion, Overwatch 2 Anniversary, Sombra, Mercy, Doomfist, Reinhardt, Lucio, Bastion 
Игры
And that’s the difference between the two meta supports right now. Bap is only good at the highest ranks because of how difficult he is but illari is good at all ranks because she is so easy to get value on.
And Moria is a free outta of sliver hero
They're both commonly played together as well
@@randompersonhere4119 Yeah but unlike illari Moira becomes absolutely trash past like platinum
i play in the middle and see him this hero is stupid
@@aSuperPi.yeah I actually find myself killing Moira a lot even as a genji one trick now that I’m in plat
I've mained Bap for a long ass time now and even when he's considered terrible he's still insanely strong in almost any scenario. Bap is the most consistently overpowered support to the point where sometimes his skill ceiling doesn't even matter, so long as you're good enough you can do so much with him
He is too op. Counters so much ults with his invincible ability, combo with his super jump, damage ult & healing spam, he needs one of these abilities taken away, it's way too much utility.
i found his loss rates in lower leagues to be very strange, as it feels like i have to play him in any game that needs to be carried. Im a borderline lucio one trick, but if my team cant get picks i have to play bap and do it myself.
@@redstoneactive6589i find myself switching to Bap whenever flying heroes are giving my team a hard time
Everything you said is more relevant to Ana.
Bap requires far more mechanical aim and he has to be way more strategic with his lamp usage. Ana on the other hand can pretty much brainlessly spam nade and sleep on the tank and generate value for free.
@melo7038 I mean yeah, Ana is the other "I've been secretly overpowered as fuck for a long time and nobody has actually truly noticed" character. Her kit is arguably more braindead than Baps despite having a skill shot in sleep dart, very easy to land on tanks, and nade is just nade
I absolutely agree that he needs nerfs, but I will add: Supports exist in the current capacity that they do as a direct response to people not having fun playing support at the launch of OW2-- where the loss of a tank makes people play way too spread out, and supports are often left to 1v1 enemy players with no help of their own. If we don't want OP supports, and teams don't want to play together and defend their supports, then we need a compromise, because supports don't want to play respawn-simulator.
Skill issue
@@PeacebobYTWhen you dps kids lose 1v1s to supports you cry about it. You just want free kills without having to earn it. Skill issue. A balance is needed. Less protection means more brawl and supports aren’t meant to be your personal pocket all game.
After a year of 5v5 teams play together now. There’s no cross map marathon. So support independence can go down now.
@@StoicScape219 if you think anyone says "skill issue" unironically anymore, then you've genuinely got a skill issue.
@@PeacebobYTwhat
Hear me out: Lamp gets 250-350 health, but whatever damage the teammates inside it take, the lamp takes instead.
Now you have 2 ways to kill it and even if they hide it behind a wall, it doesn’t give them infinite life for the duration. Instead, it shreds the health of the lamp and encourages you to throw it down at the correct times and THINK before using it
That'd make Bap even more busted in 1v1s
O God then bap would be able to have 4 or maybe 5 heathbars then
I once had a genji and lifeweaver chase me for a solid 2 minutes as Baptiste. I was just utilizing my vertical movement and abilities to keep away from them. It was great lol
Man you are easily the most underrated OW RUclipsr I’ve seen. Keep up the work
I would like to see an illari video,I honestly think just her pylon needs to go down in some way shape or form,having her be basically a better Zen with mobility in exchange for no discord orb and hitscan rather than projectile is just insane.
just make her pylon a cd with a timer. nothing else.
Only reached the 11:46 timestamp as of writing this, my first idea is making lamp give a flat damage resistance instead of immortality at low health. Making it easier to use but less powerful for those higher up. Not a great idea, but it's something.
pretty sure that was tried in experimental overwatch 1 patch before overwatch 2 and people's response was that it felt janky
I feel like people complaining about bap is just a skill issue because his immortality field isnt broken. It gets destroyed super fast and if there is a sombra (like the meta currently is) then your lamp will get constantly taken down by a good sombra. Even then his lamp isnt an issue you can shoot it i think 5 or 6 times and its broken. And it take forever to get it back. Positioning is key
Wow genius. If it takes 5 or 6 shots to break, and people not doing that aren’t skilful enough, you don’t think the enemies also get more skilful and don’t kill you on the time those 5 or 6 shots take?
It literally is their skill issue
Easier said than done. A good player puts lamp behind cover.
I would love to see a kiriko video! Its not that I think she is unplayable but honestly I just dont like how slow her healing it, feels kinda clunky and going from trying to 2 tap squishies to healing always feels a bit off
She's still good,not as good as before and there's actually better picks imo,shes no longer a must pick
Yeah I love kiriko but I feel that her healing is kinda off, they could even nerf her healing in general and make her healing feel more smooth and I'd be happy.
@Lunamagic-op8yp nerfing her healing would be yikes cause lucio kiriko is a popular backline, and she is the main source of healing.
Underrated ost selection 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'd absolutely love an Illari video. I realize that Illari is kinda like Moira (all she really does is damage and heal, not much utility per se), but while Moira is bad Illari is broken. So a vid on Illari would be great to see.
15:42 maybe it starts out as a super strong healing but then weakens? Like it starts as 250 hps for just a bit then down to 120 for a bit more, then 80, 70, 65, 60, 55. Each phase probably taking 0.2 or 0.1 seconds maybe.
I think the main problem with the DLC supports is that they all have burst healing (aside from Lifeweaver). Being able to give your teammate that immediate burst of healing is far more powerful than the overtime sustain healing of heroes like Mercy or Zenyatta. If your teammates are good (which admittedly, most are not) they are not gonna need the consistent healing but instead will make do with the "clutch" moments where your Bap pops burst, Kiri throws zuzu, Ana throws nade, Illari pops her primary. The higher up you go on ladder the higher the burst damage is as players are far more accurate with their shots and ability use so your only real chance of keeping your team alive is to match the burst damage with burst healing, or to deny the damage with abilities like lamp or zuzu (or by killing the enemy before they can kill your team).
Lamp is the only part of his kit that I personally don't enjoy playing against. I just worry that by nerfing heroes that only become OP when perfectly optimised we end up reducing the skill ceiling of the game itself. Shouldn't we focus our attention on the heroes that are OP even when played poorly? The heroes that get great value even when played afk? Bastion? Orisa? Torb? Moira? I like the idea of changing heroes that feel bad to play against but then shouldn't Hanzo be first on the chopping block? The point I'm actually trying to make is that people need to be very clear about whether they want nerfs because of winrates or because of how a character feels to play against. If the argument is that a hero feels bad to play against then sure go ahead and rework them, but don't act like Bap or Kiri are actually overpowered outside of high GM. More broadly speaking Sym, Torb, Soldier are the OP heroes in terms of winrate. At least Bap is a skillful, dynamic and interesting hero. I would prefer to focus on static low skill heroes that get value just by existing. And Hanzo. All my homies hate Hanzo. It also annoys me that Tracer has to be trash at the moment just because if she's decent in lower ranks then 500 people will have to "endure" a meta where she's the most played DPS. Apparently they would rather play Bastion or something...
Written at 5 am, probably unhinged
You cant kill Bap if its a good player playing him. He can jump at perfect times, heal burst, use that field and boom cant beat him.
I think his biggest thing at low level is grenades. The visual effects are almost double the size of his actual heal box on the grenade. Lower players often overestimate his healing range a lot so either raising it to match the vfx or lower the vfx to match the heal box it would help him a fair bit.
Its also doesnt help that most of the supports they've added have Immortal abilities. Having 1 character with an abilitiy like that isn't really an issue, but 2 can start to make it a consistent problem. Maybe separate the support role based on powerful cooldowns like that?
Like so if you have a bap, you cant have a life weaver or kiriko, so its a trade off of some sort.
Baptize highest skill ceiling my ass, doom, ball, lucio, tracer, etc
True,I feel like bap is up there but not high as those
Genji
@@hussainmahmoud3519 yeah genji for sure, I suck at genii lol, but I can get pretty good value easily from baptise
Another amazing video as always. Keep up the amazing work mate :)
trouble with buffing baps shift (even if removing the instant part)
is that its a 10 meter range for all allies in it
don't think anything higher than 120 over 4 seconds is gonna feel good to deal with
and maybe even shorten the range of it, 8-7.5 meters
love the vids just wondering if the background music is from fire emblem 3 houses?
Yeah, I used Fodlan winds for one section. I have a lot of different game soundtracks I've collected and will just pick and choose some for each video.
@amaterasu184 what is thr song you used in the first minute of the video please??🙏🏽
my issue with bap is that he does the most healing, as anna has no aoe, he does the most dmg, as anna cannot hit headshots, he is the most duable, with three heath bars, and also has exo boots, wich give him free high ground in any scenario
People in the low tiers struggle with his right click, not primary fire. Well, both. But missing your heals costs the team way more than missing a few shots (since that's not even your primary job)
Really interesting insight. I think Widow has a similar problem. It is hard to consistenly hit headshots with her, really hard. But when you can it is very powerful. When you cant you are useless.
My crazy idea is make regen burst into a small aoe exo boots jump boost for 2 seconds and let him splash himself with heal shot (can play with amount like 25hps). Would nerf easy aoe burst to force lamp more and make his dueling survivability lower but give extra utility.
Whats the music used in the baptiste shooting section??
I think baps definitely up there for skill ceiling, but I’d still argue a couple of the movement based characters are a little higher as a few ridiculous ball mains put thousands of hours into the character to use near frame perfect techs for like a tad extra dmg, similar goes for some doom mains. As for supports I’d agree, I could see arguments for kiri as very few people are effective with her either, tougher primary fire maybe play styles, much easier abilities. Echo, Genji, Lucio, Pharah, and even Hanzo, Junkrat, and Tracers skill ceiling are also potentially very high too.
True. As a casual Junk enjoyer, I was appalled at a Junk I faced that led his shots and then killed me MIDAIR by throwing the mine 😭 I switched so fast I was so embarrassed. No one will read this so I’m comfortable saying it… But yes, Junk has a pretty great skill ceiling that is 50% creativity using odd spots and just goofing with purpose.
The xenoblade music :D
I love when abilities do things under certain conditions. But wtf bro. All shift needs is the initial 50/40 health burst then the rest the below 50% health is wild
I struggle with the burst fire trying to hit mobile heroes like genji Lucio tracer
Ya ya but kurt the hive tyrant is still needed in overwatch
Baps dps on his primary might lower than soldiers but its more burst damage by default,its why bap is probably the best character to deal with flyers
I'm okay with a character having broken abilities that require more than 2 braincells.
I despise Suzu because no matter when you use it; it will always get value.
It cleanses, heals and provides invincibility; during which targets can get healed.
Meanwhile Immortality does nothing if you throw it out in a a bad position or not at the right time.
The only time Immortality get's any value if the lamp is still up when a target hits 25% HP and stays within the zone.
they should give pylon a healing meter so it can only get so much value each deploy
My support que in GM is like 15 mins but tank/dps is a 2 min que. I wonder if its because everyone knows support is OP
I am a bap main and this sounds fair.
What if Bap's lamp became his ult? Make it WAY bigger, indestructible, wall hacking, and have 1hp minimum again
What's more, window could be reworked a bit to reduce enemy damage & increase team damage by 20% each
And Regen burst could convert half it's instant health to instant armor while keeping its regen properties.
And have his primary be a quick-switch system on cooldown, like Lucio's crossfade
now the thing is whit baptiste is that no matter how much this character takes skill to master you can still be very effective whit him. I can't cycle between heal and damage constantly i just do one or another yet i still perform well whit bap
"with". How are you misspelling a 4 letter word over and over?
I will continue to one trick bap to gm
WARNS TWEET LMAO
speaking of high skill ceiling, i wish sojourn didnt have as high of one. i just want to be able to do well with one of the coolest characters in overwatch without doing terribly because of my shit aim. i would be fine with blizzard nerfing her damage just to make landing shots easier, but really this is just a skill issue lol.
His kit is so well designed but goddamn he doesn't deserve to be in this shitty little game. He deserved so much more.
that regenerative burst change is bad. having such a high HPS heal on a long duration would make him busted for flankers. that's part of why Briggite is so strong. inspire is an applied effect so flankers can get inspire and then leave to flank and have a larger effective health pool. you have to think of that change as him giving a tracer her 150+125 HP. she will be flanking in the enemy backline with an effective health pool of 275 WITHOUT RECALL. this isn't a hypothetical either. this is something that has popped up a few times throughout the games History. inspire, brigs reworked repair packs, and even Regen burst before was like that. he applied 15 hps for 5 seconds and was considered broken so that's an absolute no
Back in the day when I had passion we abused the Baptiste save the Baptiste!!!
Bap is ridiculously strong. Maybe he’s made that way for mauga.
baptise is so borning as a character too we already have a generic soldier and hes pretty cool what makes babtise interesting as a character?
He's fun because I make dps players with big egos angry. That's fun for me, idk.
this title about bap 💀
bap is the support tank with the amount of self sustain he has xd you literally can't 1v1 him if you don't deal high burst dmg
Between meta shift Baptiste has been terrible but still strong in the right hands.
With my usage of Baptiste Im doing a lot holy shit, thats the point why im agreeing with a slight nerf.
The real question is why nobodys talking about the rat in the backline -> Ana
Baptiste can throw as much lamps he likes but Biotic grenade is far worse.
Anti is so much fun wohoo. Not.
I main bap not because he's really good but because he's hot and has a nice voice
Gengi
Just the fact that people get healed different amounts based on skill will always make him broken
So what, a bronze bap never hitting directs should get the same value as a GM bap with amazing aim who hits consistent directs? Why? Should skill not be rewarded?
I main bap and agree with you. Problem is weak supports leads to nobody playing it and we go back to 10+ minute queue times. At the start of ow2 it was DPSWatch and Tankwatch. A more brawl based game requires ALL roles to be able to take part on some level. Simple as that. Damage is king in this game. We can’t have a bunch of passive supports or they’ll all end up like Mercy 🤷♂️
Bap gun to me is nice in terms of how it looks and sounds but I’d be lying if I said it felt consistent. I can get better more consistent damage on Illari. No recoil, single damage fire vs recoil and burst. Bap is defensively strong and exists imo at most ranks except for the very top 🤷♂️ he’s not a top damage hero at most ranks otherwise
How much you bring down his dmg matters too. At the end of the day he’s hitscan and needed for flying heroes. I doubt I’m killing a decent Pharah in 4 bursts if they just take cover for a second.
I think this video was made by an AI, he pronounced Shift like Sift and Sure like Soore almost like the AI can't pronounce the Ch sound.
Lol
you gave me a cringe seizure every time you used regen burst while nothing was happening
This is what I would do:
Remove recoil and make every bullet’s damage from 25-20
Make the secondary fire (healing) have a charge time (similar to mei) of 0.8s before firing the healing bomb
Make the impact healing go from 70 to 90, reduce the splash healing from 50 to 30
You can now heal yourself with secondary fire
Increase inmortality field health from 150 to 200 but make the health decay in its duration (loses 40 health per second) so if you damage it a bit it will go out faster even if you dont finish it up
Regenerative burst instant healing reduced from 40 to 25 (50 on targets lower than 50% hp)
Regenerative burst instant healing now only applies to teamates, baptiste only recieves the HoT (healing over time)
HoT from regenerative burst increased from 40 over 4s to 80 over 8s for baptiste.
Cd increased from 15s to 17.
Exo boots are now on a cd depending on how charged you used them (1s 0%-25%, 2s 26%-50%, 3s 51%- 75%, 4s 76%-100%)
With this changes baptiste only form of help would be his imortality field, and his secondary fire which would heal him 30 hp each 0.8 seconds which isnt a lot. Sometimes I feeled (in ow1) that baptiste regenerative burst was only useful for himself because he could heal teamates faster than the small healing from the ability, so now the changes will make it more impactfull for teamates and less impactfull for him, now he can heal himself with secondary fire but he will need to choose between to heal himself or end the fight because while charging your secondary fire bap wont be able to atack at all. This will also break the shoot heal momentum, which is one of the strongest parts of his kit. Also now he wont be able to spam his exoboosts which will prevent baptistes too escape to quickly out of danger.
Always thought Baptiste looks like he's ripped straight outta fortnite. It's..... a large part of why I never picked him up.
It's just that there's a default skin in fortnite that happens to look like him,complete with the tactical look of his outfit and scarf,i think that was a big part of why they made him look more like a medic in ow2
Idk, echo for me definitely has the highest skill cap char in the game because it's directly associated with how well you know all the characters in the game.
i think suzu and kiriko is worse.
Oh, yeah! The skill of shooting and dealing a ton of damage and shooting and dealing a ton of healing. What a skillful character! Ill give u the lamp skill ceiling being infinite, aswell swapping targets, but bap is definitely not the character with the highest skill ceiling. Lucio? Tracer? ECHO? ANA?
Bap is definitely my most hated support to play against on genji, maybe even hero in the game. 1. He’s a hitscan AND a support, meaning he should be a peak target to go after as genji right? Right? No. I would definitely take a Moira over a bap on the other team now that I’m a plat player
2. Damage. He can two burst a 200 hp hero… and he’s hitscan. The only other supports that can kill that fast are illari and kiriko. Kiriko is a projectile hero, so doing that past close range doesn’t happen too often, and it’s just harder to hit distant targets if they don’t move super predictably. Illari is annoying too, but not as bad due to future reasons
3. Movement. Bap doesn’t have any horizontal movement, but he can do his jump. And if you’re playing a projectile hero like genji, it’s just so hard to track his jump while he’s going up and down and just spamming it. You can’t get any good burst damage on him unless he’s on the ground.
4. The 3 lives. Whenever I dash a bap, if I flick around to try to one shot him from the bap, it’s not possible since his head hitbox is legit nonexistent from the back and blocked by some stuff he has. So the best I can do is get him one shot, unless I perfectly dash in front of his face and then hit all headshots, but that’s pretty rare, especially if he’s jumping all the time. Then, right after I dash him and deal some damage, he presses a button and is almost full hp again(it got nerfed thankfully). Then, he spams jump, and if I manage to get him low hp again, guess what, he throws down lamp, forcing me to kill the (100 hp I think?) lamp, he stays at 50 hp, and THEN I can kill him. And all of this ignores the fact of him being able to poke me out so easily, and his entire team peeling for him
Needless to say, I hate bap
Getting 2 bursted by bap happens way less than kiriko and illari
@@HueyFreeman666true, but he can have a higher total damage output by shooting and healing at the same time. Illari can do this with pylon, but she doesn’t have as much survivability once pylon is down
I don't know if Bap is the highest skill ceiling character in the game, but I'd say some characters are tied with him. Mainly Lucio, Ball (not so sure now) and Doom because those have absurdly high potential, but they are also very mechanically demanding to achieve it.
Lucio just becomes a better Genji when played at a high level, and he becomes omnipresent, he's ALWAYS going to catch up with you, but you need to learn him inside and out in every single map. And Doom has the potential to carry entire games by himself, but unlike Lucio gets easily shut down. Ball has a similar problem to Doom, at least when I used to play Ball, but I haven't seen one in ages, so I don't know how powerful it can be. But it is definitely one of the highest skill ceilings in the game due to all of it's movement tech and gamesense needed to play it.
I don't think he has the highest skill ceiling, that still goes to Tracer. But his skill floor is definitely one of the highest in the game and his skill ceiling is decently high. The thing about baptiste is that he doesn't even need to be playing well and minmaxing to get good value. So all this theoretical stuff like his damage/healing tempo is nonsense because most situations do not even allow for that type of minmaxing, even if you're a master of the technique.
A healbotting bap is a throwing bap. May as well play Lifeweaver if you're only going to do that. A bap that spams lamp mindlessly on CD is a throwing bap.
Maybe in bronze-silver where nobody can focus anything and have the aim of a potato, you can get away with playing like this. But anything above, you're not generating much value. Baps need good primary aim to pressure frontline and use lamp to deny ults and bail out your teammates overextensions. This is where his value starts coming in.
IDC what u say gengi has a higher skill ceiling than Baptise you have to hit your shots with crazy slow projectiles, with a difficult oneshot combo, and deal with all the dumb supports like Baptise, he also has to practice every part of his kit and utilize it perfectly in a fight. use your dragon blade correctly and is insanely mechanically intensive. the only reason you haven't heard this recently is that he hasn't been meta in a long time and when he is meta its not for long
I love how some people claim Bap is super easy and OP, but at the same time 95% of the playerbase cant get higher than 49% winrate with it on average
bro really bullshit his way into saying that bap is fine because he's hard to use?
Thats cool but try playing ball
I respect your opinion on Baptiste. But the highest skill ceiling hero is echo. Not only do you need to know how to play every character, and not only do you need to be close to that characters skill ceiling to see any value, but you also need to know how to play echo herself. Bap's skill ceiling is phenomenally high tho
echo is technically the highest skill capped hero
The highest skill cap ero in the game is Echo cuz she can be literally anyone.
how about just making his aoe heal more and removing the on hit heal bonus? it would make him more consistent