I fundametally disagree with all your points. But hardworkers earn my respect. Good audio, Good transitions, Perfect lighting, Consist and precise ideas, Good tone and voice performance, and your respect for your audience's time can be felt in the script. Good job.
I mean, as a kid I too played games just because they were fun... but first off I had video game crushes already back then (I think most of us did). Second, I was over the moon when you were able to play a GIRL in Pokémon Crystal and I was a 9 year old boy back then.
@@Jehuty256 Good taste my man, she's a badass. I was always more for the cute and/or nerdy types so mine was Coco Bandicoot. Later I crushed on Bianca from Spyro 3. Something about her try-hard villainous demeanour and how she slowly takes a liking to the lil dragon.
I doubt that women want to see "normal" looking female characters in games. I'm not female but I play and have played many games that women like, just take The Sims 4 as example ... almost all the created female Sims of female gamers are very pretty, very similar it's in Second Life some spend hundreds of dollars just to have the prettiest avatars, in MMOs it's the same ... most make in the character creators very pretty characters and they spend later a lot money for costumes at the cashshops. Both, male and female gamers want to see "unrealistic" pretty male and female characters in games.
You should see the like-dislike ratio on this vid. At the time of post, it's 17 likes and 73 dislikes. There's a browser plugin that lets you see the number of dislikes a video has.
While this is by far my most controversial video, that plugin is only an estimate and off by a huge margin. RUclips Studio currently reports 21 likes to 35 dislikes. Some very strong male gamers seem to have gotten their knickers in a twist ;-)
@@gmersdelightyeah dude it's called having an opinion, which i know is so toxic to you. How come people like you are always catty, and then act like everyone is just bigoted against x group for disliking everything youre aligned with. oh right, cuz thats an easy way to discourage pushback and position yourself as the moral superior.
Right, I think of the two of us, I am the one who has seen the comments automatically filtered by RUclips, so I'm quite confident I can tell the difference between disagreements and hateful behavior. I have no issues with many of the comments under this video. Some have fostered interesting conversations. But don't come here arguing that there is also a good portion of toxic behavior with these topics.
Men being big blocks of power or Bishonen: I'm sleep Woman has booba: REALSHIT?! But all the while, nobody is encouraging Men to pick up knitting, baking, or other "feminine" hobbies.
Eh, depends on what internet spaces you are in, a man could post a selfie on a make-up subreddit with mediocre skills at best and receive so much praise and recognition And while maybe not actively encouraged, no one would bat an eye if they saw a man on a cross stitch group
If women feel bad about themselves because of an unrealistic body type they see in a video game, then that's on them. If I see a movie with Dwayne Johnson I know full well I ain't ever gonna look like that. Blaming unrealistic beauty ideals depicted in fiction is just admitting your own insecurities.
I see where you're coming from, and it's true that personal resilience plays a role in how we process media images. However, it's also important to consider the broader impact of media representation. While it's certainly possible for some to distinguish between media representations and reality, research suggests that repeated exposure to idealized body images can contribute to body dissatisfaction, low self-esteem, and even eating disorders among a significant portion of the population. This isn't just about individual insecurities but about a wider societal issue where frequent, unrealistic depictions create and reinforce harmful standards that many find difficult to ignore or dismiss. Unlike the occasional appearance of a celebrity with an exceptional physique, games and films often present a narrow range of body types as the norm, which can subtly influence people's perceptions of what bodies should look like. This is particularly impactful for young audiences who are still forming their self-images and understanding of the world. Promoting a variety of body types helps in fostering a healthier societal outlook where more people can see themselves represented positively. This doesn’t mean we need to eliminate certain body types from media, but rather broaden the spectrum to include all forms, thus diminishing the pressure on individuals to conform to a single, often unreachable standard.
@@gmersdelight I certainly see all of your points, but for one thing, as the CEO of Stellar Blade said in an interview, he made Eve as hyper actractive as he did because he wanted to look at something pretty. It human nature to wanna look at pretty things. That's why having a pretty man or woman walk by you on the street will often prompt you to take a second look. As for the inclusivity part. Again, I see where you are coming from, that from the perspective of impresionable youths it can be harmful to only be presented with ONE type of body that they are "suposed to look like", but on the other hand I am 100% creative freedom. If the creator of the film or game thinks it fits within the world and narrative they are making to have all kinds of representation, that's all fine and good.. but converse, if they ONLY wanna have photomodel types represented, they should be allowed that too. It may go against everything you just said, but I genuinely believe that artists should in no way be bound by what impressions their work leaves on the world. I mean we are influenced by the content of media every single day, and like you said, we also have our own responsibility to filter reality from fiction. Diverse representation is fine... if the creator wants it. If not, they should not be forced to have it, like western activists these days are trying to.
@@gmersdelight Most likely won't response, but you only served to prove how insane you are with this comment, cause if you truly believe that then you'd believe in not allowing Dwayne Johnson to eve be on screen because he could enforce certain standards. Plus no one talks about Dragonball with the characters there having unrealistic physiques.
@@reflex9238 Calling other people insane over a point of view is of course the normal form of discourse. And no, no one is calling for Dwayne Johnson to be eradicated from the screens, because for every Dwayne Johnson, men also have at least one Jack Black to go along with. If men were fed nothing but Dwayne Johnson and consorts, then I'd fully agree - and I even say as much in the video - but the pressure on women is incomparably higher.
@@gmersdelight Seems like you've never seen an action movie in your life before. The terminator, Die Hard, any superhero movie which male actors of which are on steroids, He Man is another example as well as there was a guy on RUclips who wanted to be He Man and did steroids and sadly he's dead now. I bet you've never heard of pumping iron back in the late 70s when tons of people tried to be become bodybuilders and would take an insane amount of steroids, which rains true today. I could keep going with the amount of media there is and how a similar thing could be said about men here with unrealistic standards. There is a reason why the original commenter said people with body image issues have other underlying issues that go deeper than just "media" shaping their mind such as issues in the household or bullying at school, and that makes people like you precisely insane as you don't really care about any of the people you claim to care about. This is all fiction at the end of the day and it falls on a person to realize this whether they're male or female.
Great work Chris! This comment section is the best example to show why this video was needed lol Gamers truly are the most entitled, out of touch demographic, so I have a lot of respect for those like you who try having a rational conversation with them based on studies and research, especially putting your face and name out there Hopefully they don't come after you, they have a lot of time on their hands
Thanks for the kind words! To a certain extent, I can kind of understand where this hesitance is coming from, but the discourse gets quite nasty with many of those who are reluctant. The majority have been vocal but respectful, although there have been a few comments that were caught in the filters and I'm not sure whether to release them or not.
These people seem to be very vocal about it for not caring. I like escapism as much as the next guy, but seeing a woman portrayed as a multidimensional character and not a stick with tits and a face doesn't keep me from enjoying the escapism.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! It's true that for many - dare I say most - gaming is about escapism and enjoyment. However, acknowledging and addressing social issues within games can actually enhance the gaming experience for everyone by fostering a more welcoming environment. It's possible to enjoy games while also considering their broader impact on society.
@@gmersdelightDoes unattractive characters create a “welcoming environment”? I don’t want to stare at Geralt with a beer gut. Why is this standard only applied to female characters? I have never personally met a single woman who has ever taken issue with sexualized or attractive characters in fantasy media. In fact they enjoy them as much as anyone else. The opinions of “academics” and “scholars” is worthless on discussion of art media. These are nothing but pencil pushing moralists pushing their own agenda. They did the same thing with rap music, the same thing with violence in media, it’s nothing but Neo Victorian morality and the latest virtue signaling moral panic exactly as it was 200 years ago. it’s art and the opinions of moralists regarding art are worthless because art is an expression.
@@gmersdelight Yes women are treated badly In the gaming space and I wish that would change. But telling people they are problematic for liking certain games is not gonna help fix things its just gonna push the divide further. I personally dont think their anything wrong with games like Lollipop chainsaw, shadows of the damned, or DoA. People should be able to enjoy those games the way they are.
I play games as a mean of escapism. World in games are a different world than the real world, and traditionally characters have been unrealistic. Yeah all the guys with 8 packs and the girls with wavy bodies, but I know that games are not meant to represent real-life gender norms, and that's the reason why I play games, I wanna be that person that I can't be in real life
Very good video. I like the research based approach. One aspect I also would find very interesting is during the advent and early beginnings of gaming why were men the predominant player base? I think that goes actually very deep into cultural and social ideas of who is “supposed” to be interested in technical things like Computer Science and who would even have a PC capable of running these early games. It is a question of access in a physical way (PC) but also social way (what are the reasons for men to have more interest?). However as someone who thinks that peoples behaviour is not purely social we would also have to consider psychological factors that are reasonably distinguishable from social ones. Ofc it is all connected but in the end people in the same social environment are different, can form different interests and goals. So it would be fair to say that when it comes to video games it is not only social acceptance of access for a specific group but also the persons own specific characteristics that play a key role for them to consider start playing. What I would like to know is, if there are differences in the way woman and men play during adolescence and more importantly during adulthood. I would think there are. Then it is the question how these differences are socially structured and how these differences come from an individual factor influenced by personality, wellbeing etc. In theory we should be able to control for social factors such as upbringing, peer-group etc. and also for psychological factors with a variable that tests for gaming “adjacency” (for lack of a better word right now). My idea would be to form Clusters consisting of social and psychological factors without differentiation between the genders (so to find men and women who are similar). And only after you have the groups you split them by gender end evaluate their differences in gaming “adjacency”. And in the end to really understand the results it would probably also be good to use qualitative Interviews of a portion of every group in the survey to really understand how differences are formed.
Thank you for your insightful comment! You've raised some fascinating questions about the historical and cultural factors influencing the gender disparity in early gaming, as well as the potential differences in gaming behaviors between men and women across different stages of life. Exploring these topics through a research-based approach could yield valuable insights into the intersection of social, psychological, and individual factors shaping gaming preferences and behaviors. Your proposed method of forming clusters based on social and psychological factors, then evaluating gender differences in gaming "adjacency," sounds like a promising approach to uncovering nuanced patterns in gaming participation. Incorporating qualitative interviews alongside quantitative analysis could provide a comprehensive understanding of how these differences are formed and experienced by individuals. I had originally planned to do something along those lines for this video but I understand that this channel's size does not warrant large-scale interviews. I have felt quite uncomfortable because I feared to superimpose my words as a man onto a debate that necessitates the voices of those who are affected.
Yeah we already had this debate. Do video games cause violence if you play violent video games? No. So playing ones with unrealistic body standards, for both men and women, does not cause sexist behaviors. Also there have been plenty of female main and upfront characters dating back to the Nintendo. So yeah we had this debate over a decade ago Its bunk, its hogwash, and used simply to change video games to represent ones political agenda. Stay the hell out of my hobby.
I respectfully disagree. While it's true that the debate around video games and violence has been ongoing for years, discussing unrealistic body standards and sexism in games isn't about blaming them for causing harmful behaviors directly. Instead, it's about recognizing the potential influence of media on societal attitudes and norms. Addressing unrealistic body standards and the portrayal of gender in video games isn't about "changing" games for a political agenda but rather striving for greater inclusivity and representation within the gaming community. Furthermore, while there have been female main characters in games for decades, the representation of women in leading roles has often been limited compared to male characters, as explained in the video. Ultimately, the goal isn't to intrude on anyone's hobby but to foster a gaming culture that is more inclusive and reflective of the diverse interests and identities within the community.
@@gmersdelight Historically, "striving for greater inclusivity and representation" has been the key rationale behind a lot of recent and questionable changes in media. Bringing that from television to gaming sounds like an intent to intrude on the hobby, as you are definitionally advocating for "changing" games. As for the representation of women in leading roles being "limited", I can't say I agree whatsoever. Pick any genre and I guarantee you there's a popular game for it with a leading woman (or with multiple character options to have one).
@@gmersdelight”instead it’s about recognizing the influence on societal norms” So like normalizing violence? Through video games? “Including” certain kinds characters or depictions in games doesn’t make them “inclusive”. Allowing anyone (within reason) to access said media is what is inclusive. I feel like I could cite the uproar about Final Fantasy 16 not including many people of color - a game made by a studio from a racially and ethnically homogenous state - set in a world aesthetically based on medieval western Europe and classical fantasy - a place where at the time the majority of people were light skinned. This isn’t inclusivity to question this - it’s pandering and inserting an agenda against the artists wishes.
Women are asked to choose between a man and a bear when alone in the woods and they choose the bear 90% of the time but we have to talk about female stereotypes in gaming ?
- Am I missing something, or do the studies you refer to in the first chapter only relate to games released before/in 2014? If so, then it's really not representative. 2014 was 10 years ago and considering that video games have only been a thing since the 80s or so, 1/4 of the entire history of video games are completely ignored - 8:10 You state that "the stereotyping of women remains far more prevalent". You gave no evidence supporting this, since you only talked about female and barely about male stereotypes in video games although there were a lot of opportunites to talk about that. The table you showed is even implying that there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of male stereotyping. - 21:57 What do you mean with "independent characters"? Do you mean independent storylines? If so, why should a female character have a different storyline than a male and vice-versa, because to me this sounds a lot like a new version of stereotyping? I won't give this video a dislike because I think it still is well-made. But I think a lot of the gaming culture was ignored in this video. For example, the entire indie scene was ignored. To be fair, the majority of gamers play AAA games, however I think the indie scene is very relevant to the gaming culture as a whole and thus should have been talked about. Also I doubt the relevance of this entire topic, since the appeal of the majority of games is that you as the player can "write your own story", regardless of common stereotypes and gender roles.
Yes, absolutely true and this is one of the key issues with research regarding video games: we can't keep up. There have been smaller follow-up studies, but the studies that were mentioned in this video are among the most recent and comprehensive ones in this field. And I understand your sentiment that large parts of gaming culture were "ignored" - although I object to the word ignore. The problem is that "video games" and "gaming culture" and incredibly large entities, making it impossible to cover every area. The asian video game market is, for instance, decisively different to the western market and was as such dropped from this video. The same goes for indie games, since I challenged the notion of how video games influence/affect their players. While indie games can be massively influential, AAA / mainstream games simply have greater reach so I decided to focus on this area instead. If I had a team of writers, though, I would fully agree with you here!
Men and women are different. This isn't rocket science and even children can understand this basic concept. We have different hobbies and ways of seeing the world. I'm just so sick and tired of this debate of trying to force women and men to be equal. We never have been and never will be. This truly feels like we're back in 2016 when sexist and racist Feminist Anita Sarkeesian tried to paint games as a "man only space" and demonized them as angry losers. And we've come to the point where we're sick and tired of forcing intolerant leftist politics aka 'progressivism' into games. We just want to play games and enjoy them. We do not care. We just want to enjoy entertainment away from the real world. You can't call it escapism if you're forcing real world problems into it. This really is just another "man bad, woman good" video that says the same old tired tropes of demonizing male only spaces and saying nothing of female only spaces (Which ironically is getting invaded by the trans community against women's will of course). Just look at the Boy Scouts vs Girl Scouts. Boy scouts are no longer boys only but girls scouts are still girls only. And I also love how you assume that men have never been discriminated based on their gender either. Heck, we even had that dumb "Bear vs Man" debate which shows men are demonized openly in discourse then women are. Anyway, it's another video that says the same tired arguments that have been debunked by other youtubers.
This video is such a W. As a woman playing games, its absolutely ridiculous that some men try to gatekeep gaming like… brother wtf its a bunch of code and pixels chill… thank you so much for keeping this up seriously it means so much that someone (especially a man because men don’t listen to women) has our back here and can see the issues with PROOF behind their words too…
The problem is not that women are into gaming; that's never been the issue. Boys and men have encouraged girls and women to enjoy gaming alongside them for the last 30+ years. HOWEVER, the problem arises when you try to change the things that others enjoy. And that goes for any hobby or interest, or anything with an existing fanbase. One doesn't come into gaming, anime, comics, movies, etc. or anything else demanding things need to change - that's a narcissistic tendency. People are welcome to either enjoy what's there or move along. You integrate into the hobby, not the other way around. If you don't like it, don't participate, but also don't complain about it and let those who do enjoy it do so in peace. Simple. This isn't an argument about the sex of the participants, it's about enjoying what's already there.
@@metaltom2003 i think this argument overlooks the casual misogyny that is wide spread within gaming, you encourage them to play, but no one stops being mysogynistic. And the abuse continues (also a lot of voice chat lobbies dont have mute functions to stop toxicity)
@@mealman0447 See, now we have another issue. I was speaking on the games themselves. You're speaking about the players and online interactions. Whether intentional or not, shifting the conversation away from the original point is disingenuous at best. But if we must address this completely separate topic as well, we need to define the term you're using. Misogyny is defined as a hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women. That being said, there's no widespread misogyny among gamers. That's not to say it doesn't exist, but it's so miniscule that it isn't worth mentioning. There's trash-talking, sure. But that isn't inherently problematic, let alone abusive or misogynistic, nor does it target individuals or specific groups. This is simply banter between opposing teams (or even between/amongst teammates at times) and should be taken with a grain of salt. Let them have their harmless fun. What is problematic, however, is expecting everyone else's behavior to change simply because an individual doesn't like it. This is, once again, a narcissistic behavior, and a dangerous one at that. To think of oneself with such a high level of self-importance that EVERYONE ELSE needs to change is completely absurd. No one is so high and mighty. This relates back to my original point where you have to either integrate or move on. There is a third option in this case, and that is to just ignore it and enjoy oneself anyway, but people these days can't seem to do that anymore. To drive the point home even further, we cannot (and should never) expect to change or control the behaviors of anyone outside of ourselves. This is how end up with dictators and tyrants, which, looking back at history, doesn't end up well for anyone. We are all individuals, we are all flawed, and that in itself is a beautiful thing.
you probably don't feel welcomed by people who love games because you see them as meaningless pixels and code. Men might listen to you if you didn't denigrate their interests as you joined them.
@@mealman0447Ok and what about the casual misogyny in rap music? Should we force rap music to change? Let those who enjoy it - enjoy it - including the MANY women who do.
This is a very well made video, good job on that. A lot of the points you talked about here you sadly notice rather quickly if you spend any amount of time in the gaming scene. Especially the misogyny towards women in the gaming space. But it was very interesting to see actual studies about the topic.
It's true that many of these issues are quickly noticeable to those within the community, especially those who are directly affected. Highlighting studies on the topic helps to frame these experiences within a broader context, providing both validation and a deeper understanding. I am glad you found the video informative! :)
Given that there is no biological marker that makes gaming more attractive to men than to women, I think we're long past the point of seeing gaming as a purely male hobby. Gaming should be enjoyable irregardless of gender identity.
When you make something for everyone, it ends up being for no one. Instead of creating their own spaces, women have chosen to crowbar themselves into male spaces via threats and cry bullying in order to destroy them from the inside out. The bar of standards is constantly being dropped to a lower rung.
Well girls prefer a games like SIMS and similar, or if they play LoL they prefear support role, cuz they are more supportive. Guys prefer shoter and teamcomb games because they are much more comptetitive. By the way as girl prefer (tall) muscle guys with six pack, guys prefer girls with big boobs. But this one is same in real world also.
I think it might be useful to consider that preferences for games and roles can vary widely among individuals and aren't strictly determined by gender. Research shows that while there are trends in gaming preferences, these are often influenced by societal expectations and the availability of role models within those games, rather than inherent gender-based inclinations. Additionally, the idea that men and women have fixed preferences for certain physical attributes in the opposite sex can be an oversimplification. Attraction is highly personal and varies greatly among individuals. While media often amplifies certain ideals, such as tall, muscular men and women with specific body shapes, real-world preferences are far more diverse and influenced by a range of factors including personality, shared values, and emotional connection, not just physical attributes. In both gaming and physical attraction, it’s important to recognize the diversity of preferences and experiences among individuals, rather than attributing them to gender alone.
As a woman who exclusively plays initiator and entry in FPS as well as is turned off by muscly men and avoids tall men, thank you so much for assuming millions of women, as a collective, fit your very stereotypical image men made
Here is a list of video games that got female protagonist right Primal jen and scree are awesome and how forsaken should have been The longest journey The dreamfall longest journey There are no othe deep thinking protagonists in game than april ryan and zoe castillo Dreamfall chapters Dragomir Crystal dynamica lara croft Heavenly sword by ninja theory Hellblade senua ninja theory Life is atrange What you need is not research groups but look at these games that got female protagonist right and the devs of these games and support them and have them talk about it . Not useless stats that will only ruin creativity.
I am not sure I can agree with your last statement. Of course, just looking at statistics is not a magical switch that can be flipped and which automatically leads to improvements. But analysing games is necessary to understand where the video game industry has fundamentally gone wrong. It is the only way to demonstrate how broad of an issue it really is. Naturally, there are many games with strong female characters and the situation is steadily improving. But for every good recent example, there are at least equally as many bad examples which highlight why calling attention to these issues is important. So yes, we need to encourage devs who have found a good approach to create female characters - but to understand what a good female character really is, it is never a bad idea to use media theory to have a solid foundation.
@@gmersdelight”for every good example there are equally as many bad examples” Yes, and that’s exactly how it should be. There’s wholesome Christian rap music about Jesus and there’s rap music about skinning your neighbour alive and feeding them to the dogs. Why is this problematic if everyone gets what they want unless what you really want is for other people to not get what they want, and only you You talk about diversity - this is literally diversity. Diversity doesn’t just exist within a vacuum of what you deem morally righteous
Yes, the pushback has been quite the sight, but I don't really care. I'm thankful for every serious discussion about this topic. I'm aware that some people refuse to engage in any kind of productive argument but there's no saving these people anyway, it seems. At least the insults have remained in check so far. Thank you for your support!
@@gmersdelight absolutely, this isnt meant as a discouraging statement, but ive seen trans people and women like anita sarcesian have their lives actually ruined and permanently traumatized from this subject. I hope that it doesnt repeat
Sadly true, especially the GamerGate debate has propelled hateful attacks towards individuals but also anyone who disagress with their narrow POV. I believe that this channel is too small to be targeted, but I'll remain cautious :)
I fundametally disagree with all your points.
But hardworkers earn my respect. Good audio, Good transitions, Perfect lighting, Consist and precise ideas, Good tone and voice performance, and your respect for your audience's time can be felt in the script.
Good job.
Appreciate your kind words, thank you very much!
I mean, as a kid I too played games just because they were fun... but first off I had video game crushes already back then (I think most of us did). Second, I was over the moon when you were able to play a GIRL in Pokémon Crystal and I was a 9 year old boy back then.
I had a huge crush on on Ayame from Tenchu
@@Jehuty256 Good taste my man, she's a badass. I was always more for the cute and/or nerdy types so mine was Coco Bandicoot. Later I crushed on Bianca from Spyro 3. Something about her try-hard villainous demeanour and how she slowly takes a liking to the lil dragon.
I doubt that women want to see "normal" looking female characters in games. I'm not female but I play and have played many games that women like, just take The Sims 4 as example ... almost all the created female Sims of female gamers are very pretty, very similar it's in Second Life some spend hundreds of dollars just to have the prettiest avatars, in MMOs it's the same ... most make in the character creators very pretty characters and they spend later a lot money for costumes at the cashshops.
Both, male and female gamers want to see "unrealistic" pretty male and female characters in games.
You should see the like-dislike ratio on this vid. At the time of post, it's 17 likes and 73 dislikes. There's a browser plugin that lets you see the number of dislikes a video has.
While this is by far my most controversial video, that plugin is only an estimate and off by a huge margin. RUclips Studio currently reports 21 likes to 35 dislikes. Some very strong male gamers seem to have gotten their knickers in a twist ;-)
@@gmersdelightyeah dude it's called having an opinion, which i know is so toxic to you. How come people like you are always catty, and then act like everyone is just bigoted against x group for disliking everything youre aligned with. oh right, cuz thats an easy way to discourage pushback and position yourself as the moral superior.
Right, I think of the two of us, I am the one who has seen the comments automatically filtered by RUclips, so I'm quite confident I can tell the difference between disagreements and hateful behavior.
I have no issues with many of the comments under this video. Some have fostered interesting conversations. But don't come here arguing that there is also a good portion of toxic behavior with these topics.
Men being big blocks of power or Bishonen: I'm sleep
Woman has booba: REALSHIT?!
But all the while, nobody is encouraging Men to pick up knitting, baking, or other "feminine" hobbies.
Eh, depends on what internet spaces you are in, a man could post a selfie on a make-up subreddit with mediocre skills at best and receive so much praise and recognition
And while maybe not actively encouraged, no one would bat an eye if they saw a man on a cross stitch group
If women feel bad about themselves because of an unrealistic body type they see in a video game, then that's on them. If I see a movie with Dwayne Johnson I know full well I ain't ever gonna look like that. Blaming unrealistic beauty ideals depicted in fiction is just admitting your own insecurities.
I see where you're coming from, and it's true that personal resilience plays a role in how we process media images. However, it's also important to consider the broader impact of media representation. While it's certainly possible for some to distinguish between media representations and reality, research suggests that repeated exposure to idealized body images can contribute to body dissatisfaction, low self-esteem, and even eating disorders among a significant portion of the population. This isn't just about individual insecurities but about a wider societal issue where frequent, unrealistic depictions create and reinforce harmful standards that many find difficult to ignore or dismiss.
Unlike the occasional appearance of a celebrity with an exceptional physique, games and films often present a narrow range of body types as the norm, which can subtly influence people's perceptions of what bodies should look like. This is particularly impactful for young audiences who are still forming their self-images and understanding of the world. Promoting a variety of body types helps in fostering a healthier societal outlook where more people can see themselves represented positively. This doesn’t mean we need to eliminate certain body types from media, but rather broaden the spectrum to include all forms, thus diminishing the pressure on individuals to conform to a single, often unreachable standard.
@@gmersdelight I certainly see all of your points, but for one thing, as the CEO of Stellar Blade said in an interview, he made Eve as hyper actractive as he did because he wanted to look at something pretty. It human nature to wanna look at pretty things. That's why having a pretty man or woman walk by you on the street will often prompt you to take a second look.
As for the inclusivity part. Again, I see where you are coming from, that from the perspective of impresionable youths it can be harmful to only be presented with ONE type of body that they are "suposed to look like", but on the other hand I am 100% creative freedom. If the creator of the film or game thinks it fits within the world and narrative they are making to have all kinds of representation, that's all fine and good.. but converse, if they ONLY wanna have photomodel types represented, they should be allowed that too.
It may go against everything you just said, but I genuinely believe that artists should in no way be bound by what impressions their work leaves on the world. I mean we are influenced by the content of media every single day, and like you said, we also have our own responsibility to filter reality from fiction. Diverse representation is fine... if the creator wants it. If not, they should not be forced to have it, like western activists these days are trying to.
@@gmersdelight Most likely won't response, but you only served to prove how insane you are with this comment, cause if you truly believe that then you'd believe in not allowing Dwayne Johnson to eve be on screen because he could enforce certain standards. Plus no one talks about Dragonball with the characters there having unrealistic physiques.
@@reflex9238 Calling other people insane over a point of view is of course the normal form of discourse. And no, no one is calling for Dwayne Johnson to be eradicated from the screens, because for every Dwayne Johnson, men also have at least one Jack Black to go along with. If men were fed nothing but Dwayne Johnson and consorts, then I'd fully agree - and I even say as much in the video - but the pressure on women is incomparably higher.
@@gmersdelight Seems like you've never seen an action movie in your life before. The terminator, Die Hard, any superhero movie which male actors of which are on steroids, He Man is another example as well as there was a guy on RUclips who wanted to be He Man and did steroids and sadly he's dead now. I bet you've never heard of pumping iron back in the late 70s when tons of people tried to be become bodybuilders and would take an insane amount of steroids, which rains true today. I could keep going with the amount of media there is and how a similar thing could be said about men here with unrealistic standards.
There is a reason why the original commenter said people with body image issues have other underlying issues that go deeper than just "media" shaping their mind such as issues in the household or bullying at school, and that makes people like you precisely insane as you don't really care about any of the people you claim to care about. This is all fiction at the end of the day and it falls on a person to realize this whether they're male or female.
Great work Chris! This comment section is the best example to show why this video was needed lol
Gamers truly are the most entitled, out of touch demographic, so I have a lot of respect for those like you who try having a rational conversation with them based on studies and research, especially putting your face and name out there
Hopefully they don't come after you, they have a lot of time on their hands
Thanks for the kind words! To a certain extent, I can kind of understand where this hesitance is coming from, but the discourse gets quite nasty with many of those who are reluctant. The majority have been vocal but respectful, although there have been a few comments that were caught in the filters and I'm not sure whether to release them or not.
Most people don't care about these issues in video games. They just wanna play a good game and have fun and not be reminded of the real world
These people seem to be very vocal about it for not caring.
I like escapism as much as the next guy, but seeing a woman portrayed as a multidimensional character and not a stick with tits and a face doesn't keep me from enjoying the escapism.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! It's true that for many - dare I say most - gaming is about escapism and enjoyment. However, acknowledging and addressing social issues within games can actually enhance the gaming experience for everyone by fostering a more welcoming environment. It's possible to enjoy games while also considering their broader impact on society.
@@gmersdelightDoes unattractive characters create a “welcoming environment”?
I don’t want to stare at Geralt with a beer gut. Why is this standard only applied to female characters? I have never personally met a single woman who has ever taken issue with sexualized or attractive characters in fantasy media. In fact they enjoy them as much as anyone else.
The opinions of “academics” and “scholars” is worthless on discussion of art media. These are nothing but pencil pushing moralists pushing their own agenda. They did the same thing with rap music, the same thing with violence in media, it’s nothing but Neo Victorian morality and the latest virtue signaling moral panic exactly as it was 200 years ago. it’s art and the opinions of moralists regarding art are worthless because art is an expression.
Escapism is a capitalist myth. Everything is politics. You can't escape it, you can only ignore it.
It sucks but it's a part of human existence
@@gmersdelight Yes women are treated badly In the gaming space and I wish that would change. But telling people they are problematic for liking certain games is not gonna help fix things its just gonna push the divide further. I personally dont think their anything wrong with games like Lollipop chainsaw, shadows of the damned, or DoA. People should be able to enjoy those games the way they are.
I play games as a mean of escapism. World in games are a different world than the real world, and traditionally characters have been unrealistic. Yeah all the guys with 8 packs and the girls with wavy bodies, but I know that games are not meant to represent real-life gender norms, and that's the reason why I play games, I wanna be that person that I can't be in real life
Very good video. I like the research based approach.
One aspect I also would find very interesting is during the advent and early beginnings of gaming why were men the predominant player base? I think that goes actually very deep into cultural and social ideas of who is “supposed” to be interested in technical things like Computer Science and who would even have a PC capable of running these early games.
It is a question of access in a physical way (PC) but also social way (what are the reasons for men to have more interest?). However as someone who thinks that peoples behaviour is not purely social we would also have to consider psychological factors that are reasonably distinguishable from social ones. Ofc it is all connected but in the end people in the same social environment are different, can form different interests and goals. So it would be fair to say that when it comes to video games it is not only social acceptance of access for a specific group but also the persons own specific characteristics that play a key role for them to consider start playing.
What I would like to know is, if there are differences in the way woman and men play during adolescence and more importantly during adulthood. I would think there are. Then it is the question how these differences are socially structured and how these differences come from an individual factor influenced by personality, wellbeing etc.
In theory we should be able to control for social factors such as upbringing, peer-group etc. and also for psychological factors with a variable that tests for gaming “adjacency” (for lack of a better word right now). My idea would be to form Clusters consisting of social and psychological factors without differentiation between the genders (so to find men and women who are similar). And only after you have the groups you split them by gender end evaluate their differences in gaming “adjacency”. And in the end to really understand the results it would probably also be good to use qualitative Interviews of a portion of every group in the survey to really understand how differences are formed.
Thank you for your insightful comment! You've raised some fascinating questions about the historical and cultural factors influencing the gender disparity in early gaming, as well as the potential differences in gaming behaviors between men and women across different stages of life.
Exploring these topics through a research-based approach could yield valuable insights into the intersection of social, psychological, and individual factors shaping gaming preferences and behaviors. Your proposed method of forming clusters based on social and psychological factors, then evaluating gender differences in gaming "adjacency," sounds like a promising approach to uncovering nuanced patterns in gaming participation.
Incorporating qualitative interviews alongside quantitative analysis could provide a comprehensive understanding of how these differences are formed and experienced by individuals. I had originally planned to do something along those lines for this video but I understand that this channel's size does not warrant large-scale interviews. I have felt quite uncomfortable because I feared to superimpose my words as a man onto a debate that necessitates the voices of those who are affected.
Yeah we already had this debate. Do video games cause violence if you play violent video games? No. So playing ones with unrealistic body standards, for both men and women, does not cause sexist behaviors. Also there have been plenty of female main and upfront characters dating back to the Nintendo. So yeah we had this debate over a decade ago Its bunk, its hogwash, and used simply to change video games to represent ones political agenda.
Stay the hell out of my hobby.
No it isnt, considering when this debate was brought up, anita sarcesian was sent death, rape and bombing threats. This is a problem:|
I respectfully disagree. While it's true that the debate around video games and violence has been ongoing for years, discussing unrealistic body standards and sexism in games isn't about blaming them for causing harmful behaviors directly. Instead, it's about recognizing the potential influence of media on societal attitudes and norms. Addressing unrealistic body standards and the portrayal of gender in video games isn't about "changing" games for a political agenda but rather striving for greater inclusivity and representation within the gaming community.
Furthermore, while there have been female main characters in games for decades, the representation of women in leading roles has often been limited compared to male characters, as explained in the video. Ultimately, the goal isn't to intrude on anyone's hobby but to foster a gaming culture that is more inclusive and reflective of the diverse interests and identities within the community.
@@gmersdelight Historically, "striving for greater inclusivity and representation" has been the key rationale behind a lot of recent and questionable changes in media. Bringing that from television to gaming sounds like an intent to intrude on the hobby, as you are definitionally advocating for "changing" games.
As for the representation of women in leading roles being "limited", I can't say I agree whatsoever. Pick any genre and I guarantee you there's a popular game for it with a leading woman (or with multiple character options to have one).
@@gmersdelight”instead it’s about recognizing the influence on societal norms”
So like normalizing violence? Through video games?
“Including” certain kinds characters or depictions in games doesn’t make them “inclusive”. Allowing anyone (within reason) to access said media is what is inclusive.
I feel like I could cite the uproar about Final Fantasy 16 not including many people of color - a game made by a studio from a racially and ethnically homogenous state - set in a world aesthetically based on medieval western Europe and classical fantasy - a place where at the time the majority of people were light skinned. This isn’t inclusivity to question this - it’s pandering and inserting an agenda against the artists wishes.
"Stay out of my hobby"
I can't imagine being this fucking entitled even if I was fucking Mick Jagger 😂
Stay in your basement
Women are asked to choose between a man and a bear when alone in the woods and they choose the bear 90% of the time but we have to talk about female stereotypes in gaming ?
womp womp
@@lokeyartist Great argument troll.
@@stormsabre22 have you ever tried listening to their reasons for choosing the bear?
@@lokeyartist Yes they are the same reasons that others use to try and justify racism and bigotry. But it's ok since it's cool to hate men.
@@lokeyartistyoure supposed to leave after the womp womp.
- Am I missing something, or do the studies you refer to in the first chapter only relate to games released before/in 2014? If so, then it's really not representative. 2014 was 10 years ago and considering that video games have only been a thing since the 80s or so, 1/4 of the entire history of video games are completely ignored
- 8:10 You state that "the stereotyping of women remains far more prevalent". You gave no evidence supporting this, since you only talked about female and barely about male stereotypes in video games although there were a lot of opportunites to talk about that. The table you showed is even implying that there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of male stereotyping.
- 21:57 What do you mean with "independent characters"? Do you mean independent storylines? If so, why should a female character have a different storyline than a male and vice-versa, because to me this sounds a lot like a new version of stereotyping?
I won't give this video a dislike because I think it still is well-made. But I think a lot of the gaming culture was ignored in this video. For example, the entire indie scene was ignored. To be fair, the majority of gamers play AAA games, however I think the indie scene is very relevant to the gaming culture as a whole and thus should have been talked about. Also I doubt the relevance of this entire topic, since the appeal of the majority of games is that you as the player can "write your own story", regardless of common stereotypes and gender roles.
Yes, absolutely true and this is one of the key issues with research regarding video games: we can't keep up. There have been smaller follow-up studies, but the studies that were mentioned in this video are among the most recent and comprehensive ones in this field.
And I understand your sentiment that large parts of gaming culture were "ignored" - although I object to the word ignore. The problem is that "video games" and "gaming culture" and incredibly large entities, making it impossible to cover every area. The asian video game market is, for instance, decisively different to the western market and was as such dropped from this video. The same goes for indie games, since I challenged the notion of how video games influence/affect their players. While indie games can be massively influential, AAA / mainstream games simply have greater reach so I decided to focus on this area instead. If I had a team of writers, though, I would fully agree with you here!
Men and women are different. This isn't rocket science and even children can understand this basic concept. We have different hobbies and ways of seeing the world.
I'm just so sick and tired of this debate of trying to force women and men to be equal. We never have been and never will be.
This truly feels like we're back in 2016 when sexist and racist Feminist Anita Sarkeesian tried to paint games as a "man only space" and demonized them as angry losers.
And we've come to the point where we're sick and tired of forcing intolerant leftist politics aka 'progressivism' into games. We just want to play games and enjoy them. We do not care. We just want to enjoy entertainment away from the real world.
You can't call it escapism if you're forcing real world problems into it. This really is just another "man bad, woman good" video that says the same old tired tropes of demonizing male only spaces and saying nothing of female only spaces (Which ironically is getting invaded by the trans community against women's will of course). Just look at the Boy Scouts vs Girl Scouts. Boy scouts are no longer boys only but girls scouts are still girls only.
And I also love how you assume that men have never been discriminated based on their gender either. Heck, we even had that dumb "Bear vs Man" debate which shows men are demonized openly in discourse then women are.
Anyway, it's another video that says the same tired arguments that have been debunked by other youtubers.
This video is such a W. As a woman playing games, its absolutely ridiculous that some men try to gatekeep gaming like… brother wtf its a bunch of code and pixels chill… thank you so much for keeping this up seriously it means so much that someone (especially a man because men don’t listen to women) has our back here and can see the issues with PROOF behind their words too…
The problem is not that women are into gaming; that's never been the issue. Boys and men have encouraged girls and women to enjoy gaming alongside them for the last 30+ years. HOWEVER, the problem arises when you try to change the things that others enjoy. And that goes for any hobby or interest, or anything with an existing fanbase. One doesn't come into gaming, anime, comics, movies, etc. or anything else demanding things need to change - that's a narcissistic tendency. People are welcome to either enjoy what's there or move along. You integrate into the hobby, not the other way around. If you don't like it, don't participate, but also don't complain about it and let those who do enjoy it do so in peace. Simple.
This isn't an argument about the sex of the participants, it's about enjoying what's already there.
@@metaltom2003 i think this argument overlooks the casual misogyny that is wide spread within gaming, you encourage them to play, but no one stops being mysogynistic. And the abuse continues (also a lot of voice chat lobbies dont have mute functions to stop toxicity)
@@mealman0447 See, now we have another issue. I was speaking on the games themselves. You're speaking about the players and online interactions. Whether intentional or not, shifting the conversation away from the original point is disingenuous at best.
But if we must address this completely separate topic as well, we need to define the term you're using. Misogyny is defined as a hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women. That being said, there's no widespread misogyny among gamers. That's not to say it doesn't exist, but it's so miniscule that it isn't worth mentioning. There's trash-talking, sure. But that isn't inherently problematic, let alone abusive or misogynistic, nor does it target individuals or specific groups. This is simply banter between opposing teams (or even between/amongst teammates at times) and should be taken with a grain of salt. Let them have their harmless fun.
What is problematic, however, is expecting everyone else's behavior to change simply because an individual doesn't like it. This is, once again, a narcissistic behavior, and a dangerous one at that. To think of oneself with such a high level of self-importance that EVERYONE ELSE needs to change is completely absurd. No one is so high and mighty. This relates back to my original point where you have to either integrate or move on. There is a third option in this case, and that is to just ignore it and enjoy oneself anyway, but people these days can't seem to do that anymore. To drive the point home even further, we cannot (and should never) expect to change or control the behaviors of anyone outside of ourselves. This is how end up with dictators and tyrants, which, looking back at history, doesn't end up well for anyone.
We are all individuals, we are all flawed, and that in itself is a beautiful thing.
you probably don't feel welcomed by people who love games because you see them as meaningless pixels and code. Men might listen to you if you didn't denigrate their interests as you joined them.
@@mealman0447Ok and what about the casual misogyny in rap music? Should we force rap music to change? Let those who enjoy it - enjoy it - including the MANY women who do.
This is a very well made video, good job on that. A lot of the points you talked about here you sadly notice rather quickly if you spend any amount of time in the gaming scene. Especially the misogyny towards women in the gaming space. But it was very interesting to see actual studies about the topic.
It's true that many of these issues are quickly noticeable to those within the community, especially those who are directly affected. Highlighting studies on the topic helps to frame these experiences within a broader context, providing both validation and a deeper understanding. I am glad you found the video informative! :)
Gaming is a male hobby there is nothing wrong with that
Given that there is no biological marker that makes gaming more attractive to men than to women, I think we're long past the point of seeing gaming as a purely male hobby. Gaming should be enjoyable irregardless of gender identity.
You're both wrong! Gaming is no longer for males or females. It's not even for gamers either, it's for the corporate investors and greedy CEOS
When you make something for everyone, it ends up being for no one. Instead of creating their own spaces, women have chosen to crowbar themselves into male spaces via threats and cry bullying in order to destroy them from the inside out. The bar of standards is constantly being dropped to a lower rung.
Well girls prefer a games like SIMS and similar, or if they play LoL they prefear support role, cuz they are more supportive. Guys prefer shoter and teamcomb games because they are much more comptetitive.
By the way as girl prefer (tall) muscle guys with six pack, guys prefer girls with big boobs. But this one is same in real world also.
I think it might be useful to consider that preferences for games and roles can vary widely among individuals and aren't strictly determined by gender. Research shows that while there are trends in gaming preferences, these are often influenced by societal expectations and the availability of role models within those games, rather than inherent gender-based inclinations. Additionally, the idea that men and women have fixed preferences for certain physical attributes in the opposite sex can be an oversimplification. Attraction is highly personal and varies greatly among individuals. While media often amplifies certain ideals, such as tall, muscular men and women with specific body shapes, real-world preferences are far more diverse and influenced by a range of factors including personality, shared values, and emotional connection, not just physical attributes.
In both gaming and physical attraction, it’s important to recognize the diversity of preferences and experiences among individuals, rather than attributing them to gender alone.
As a woman who exclusively plays initiator and entry in FPS as well as is turned off by muscly men and avoids tall men, thank you so much for assuming millions of women, as a collective, fit your very stereotypical image men made
Here is a list of video games that got female protagonist right
Primal jen and scree are awesome and how forsaken should have been
The longest journey
The dreamfall longest journey
There are no othe deep thinking protagonists in game than april ryan and zoe castillo
Dreamfall chapters
Dragomir
Crystal dynamica lara croft
Heavenly sword by ninja theory
Hellblade senua ninja theory
Life is atrange
What you need is not research groups but look at these games that got female protagonist right and the devs of these games and support them and have them talk about it .
Not useless stats that will only ruin creativity.
I am not sure I can agree with your last statement. Of course, just looking at statistics is not a magical switch that can be flipped and which automatically leads to improvements. But analysing games is necessary to understand where the video game industry has fundamentally gone wrong. It is the only way to demonstrate how broad of an issue it really is. Naturally, there are many games with strong female characters and the situation is steadily improving. But for every good recent example, there are at least equally as many bad examples which highlight why calling attention to these issues is important.
So yes, we need to encourage devs who have found a good approach to create female characters - but to understand what a good female character really is, it is never a bad idea to use media theory to have a solid foundation.
@@gmersdelight”for every good example there are equally as many bad examples”
Yes, and that’s exactly how it should be.
There’s wholesome Christian rap music about Jesus and there’s rap music about skinning your neighbour alive and feeding them to the dogs.
Why is this problematic if everyone gets what they want unless what you really want is for other people to not get what they want, and only you
You talk about diversity - this is literally diversity. Diversity doesn’t just exist within a vacuum of what you deem morally righteous
Just be aware that the last couple of people to talk about this were pushed out of the space and their lives were ruined, i love this video btw.
Yes, the pushback has been quite the sight, but I don't really care. I'm thankful for every serious discussion about this topic. I'm aware that some people refuse to engage in any kind of productive argument but there's no saving these people anyway, it seems. At least the insults have remained in check so far.
Thank you for your support!
@@gmersdelight absolutely, this isnt meant as a discouraging statement, but ive seen trans people and women like anita sarcesian have their lives actually ruined and permanently traumatized from this subject. I hope that it doesnt repeat
Sadly true, especially the GamerGate debate has propelled hateful attacks towards individuals but also anyone who disagress with their narrow POV.
I believe that this channel is too small to be targeted, but I'll remain cautious :)
video games aren't a space. they're a product and their customers aren't a community.
@@californiavirus3566 except they act as a community, enough so that people gang up and send death, rape and bombing threats to anita sarcesian