might be a 13k discount on a price inflated by 20k I don't thin kthis guy even calculated the solar needs... I live in a temperate climate, we are predominatly a heating climate whcih takes far more power than cooling, and a system for mine would be 32k (CANADIAN!) to cover consumption. close to half million dollar house also. You will never get the money back on resale, so you better plan to stay there for 10-15 years... never ever get the cash back.
Actually there are some time sensitive rebates that the utility companies give but they usually only have about a 2 million dollar budget state wide and here in Texas it’s gone by march so the first people on the list get those rebates
People who get solar for their homes are mainly doing it for financial reasons. The problem is they’re not saving any money and in many cases they’re seeing their bills, double and triple. Solar panel sales is this centuries version of aluminum siding
At that price it has to be a VERY large system AND an off grid/battery based system. He did mention "having power when nobody else does" which implies that he is going for battery storage + solar.
I got solar in 2017, back then it generated $200 per month, Duke energy rates almost doubled since 2017, so now the offset is equivalent to $350 a month... I paid $18,000 for the system. It also powers my Chevy Volt, offsetting $200 per month in gas costs. The panels will last 30 years... I paid cash for the system.
@@jeffro221 Yes they do. Many panels have a 30 year warranty and my boss has worked on panels that are over 50 years old and still producing power, on an off-grid system.
No ones asking how much he’s going to pay to the electric company instead if he doesn’t go solar. Ur already paying for it. Might as well have a locked in fixed rate.
Making $260k a year, you can save up $80k by late November or December. Get the quote, save it for reference. Then save up the cash. In this coronavirus environment, any number of salesmen will be jumping to give you a discount, especially at the end of the year when solar sales are low. Dave is right, be patient, be smart. You hold all the cards.
Based on the current tax code language, residential solar systems need to be Installed in 2020 to qualify for the 26% tax credit. If he waits until the end of the year, his project might not even get permitted until 2021
He doesn’t make 260,000 a year everyone that calls in embellishes their income because it’s human nature and it makes them feel better just as everyone including myself thinks their house is worth more than it is
My solar story - I could never make solar math work. Seems to me I would just be trading paying the electric company for the solar installers all while taking on the maintenance burden. After plenty of research, I purchased 144 used solar panels and new micro inverters and installed them on a 40x80 shed. Not hard to do if you have help and are a little handy. So far our production has covered our usage and we are getting minimum electric bills ($23). I estimate my payoff will be between 5-7 years. It was a lot of work but worth it. The best part, other than no bill, is that I don’t care what happens to electricity prices anymore.
Nice. Glad you made it work for you. I have to visit my parents very soon. Found out too late that they had Sunrun install solar panels on their roof. From what I understand, they were told it would be free...??? Yeah, need to look at the contract because they are getting bills plus I am worried about their insurance cancelling their homeowners policy.
@@penguinsforever1609this happened to a couple in Houston. They made it on the news and the company ended up removing the panels due to misrepresentation.
That is really the only way to do it. You do it yourself, avoid a company, avoid the calls, and pay about 50% less. Its shocking that people still get fooled into paying extra just to get a small tax credit. DO IT YOURSELF. A PALLET of used panels is $1,000. This caller is talking about $82K WTF!!!
That’s so sad. An honest company like mine after all is said and done the costumer almost always pays a little less a month than they did previously. Hope this guy isn’t ruined forever
Imagine what that $80k would do in that same 15 year period (or longer) invested into a high growth ROTH 401k!! Then rethink your purchase immediately!! I wish we had that income though 👌🏻
I installed panels but paid cash for the system. We are on our 4th year with solar with 10% a year return. I paid $21,000 before incentives for 7.39kilowatts. My system generates $1,300 a year.
I live in Texas with a fairly new house. A Tesla system that I priced was $41k, with about 14-16k of tax credits. HOWEVER, our Texas electric coop rates are so cheap that it would take me over 10 years to break even. So I am going to wait. The technology is getting better and cheaper.
"Saving the world" and "Protecting the environment" is a luxury. Non-rich people should never go down this route. Stick to gas-powered cars and electricity from coal, we're not wealthy enough to care about the environment. Let the rich people take care of that.
@@jamesborden9343 Nope. We had minimal electricity outages thanks to our member owned electric coop. But, I will ask our builder to give me a bid on a Generac whole house generator. There's only a 6 month waiting list🤣
Get multiple quotes from different installers. I am in the industry myself and on a project this large, I guarantee you someone can do more than $13K off
People often talk about the break even point on these sorts of things, but they never talk about the break even if you took that same money and invested it.
Paying cash for solar panels in one of the southern states like California, Arizona, Texas, etc. Is a great idea that will save you money in the long run, if you plan to live in the same house for 10+ years. Debt, probably not.
biggriggs23 those aren’t southern states those are western only southern state that gets constant sunshine for solar panels is Florida, if I’m not mistaken but I could be
@@brianbest6097 Not in Texas. Around San Antonio electric is less than 7 cents per kilowatt hour. With the savings from solar I would never break even before they would need to be replaced. Even with the tax credit.
I love the idea of solar, but these federal credits have caused it to be the biggest scam... 80k to install a system??? its cheaper to rewire the entire house....
Watched this and noticed it was before the big power debacle in Texas. If I lived in Texas I wouldn't risk it, I would do solar ASAP as my state is so foolish as to not connect with the rest of the country's power grid. People died in the winter because they had no heat.
I live in Texas, so, I know what you are talking about. It's ridiculous how much the kWh is going up. On average, it's about 16.8 cents/kWh. If I can qualify for solar, I am going to get it.
The best way to roll solar is to DIY. Yes you have to know what you are doing but at a small fraction of the cost, this guy can have a decent system that pays for itself much faster.
An emergency backup solar system to run basics is good. Solar generators or a small system to learn on and have cooking, electric blankets, lights, devices covered. A few low watt appliances. Portable Fridge or freezer, induction burner, few 100ah Lifepo4 batteries that last over ten years at least. Yes, need a spot where the sun shines. A solar cooker oven doesn’t even need electricity. Good to have for emergencies, power outages, camping, road trips etc.. They can be expanded or add another system for more power as you learn or want to invest more knowing more how it works.
What until you’re thinking about building a house from the ground up. Every builder I talk to is “getting ready to raise their lot premiums or the building materials are getting ready to go up significantly!”
23k for my solar took the loan because of that that I found Dave with his advise on these videos after 6 months its paid off due to tax credit , throwing all my additional budget and bonus it is payed off. 90 dollars a month went to 10 dollars and the extra daylight and summer has not kicked in to bank credits to make it no cost.
Electric rates went through the roof since this video was made. Mine have nearly doubled! I pay 500 dollars at a minimum and they can go over 1k in the summer. They were much lower when this video was made. Solar making a lot more sense now than then.
That is a huge solar project. I live in Texas and also have 30 panels. Rates are cheap here compared to west coast. My break even was 5 years and covers 60% of my energy load. I don't think I would pull the trigger to go totally off grid in this market.
He said nothing about going off the grid he just said that the seller will cover 100% of his needs if the grid were to go down as Solar goes down with it he never said anything about battery back ups you can’t go off grid with Solar that’s a myth
82K is too high, most of the systems we sell are $30K to $40K, before the 30% tax credit, payback is 7.5 years here in Florida on a grid tied system. The battery back-up will NOT lower your bill. A system that costs $22K after the tax credit will generate $300 per month here in Tampa.
I don’t get this. Bought solar six months ago with a 10 year loan. Was paying $250 a month in electricity prior to solar. No paying $168 a month for a loan and $25 a month for electric bill. Why would I not do this from a cash flow perspective.
Because you are still paying interest every day you don't pay that off. You can save more money by paying off your loan. Congrats though, you got a better deal than this guy.
@@ruthiemuqatach5942 I’m no debt lover but if you have to buy all of your power from your power provider you are also paying their interest charges. So either way interest is getting paid. Aside from that, borrowing money is almost essential to make a lot of money in real estate.
Yes this is the sensible way to do it. I'm not sure who this host is, he clearly doesn't understand borrowing cheap and investing it elsewhere by keeping cash at hand
I literally helped a financial advisor go solar and he financed it lol… then used his cash to buy more real estate. He only wanted to lock in his power payment to hedge inflation
I pay around $2000 a year for electric probably less, and was quoted $47k for solar , I just took the cash and bought a few dividend stock that pay me around 3300 a year . now i am going to buy a whole home generator for emergencys for $7000 installed. I dont think i would live in my home long enough to pay off the solar and it was so expensive to purchase.
Only way to buy a solar panel system is to buy it cash(and when you can afford it). It takes so long to break even and the credits or rebates are not worth the debt.
Yes you see a lot of people saying I am only paying 15 dollars a month for electric but what they dont say is the loan for the panels is way more what they were paying for electric
That's the catch entire forgets.. Including depreciation.... After 20 years. You have to buy it again.... So the price is really hidden twice as much as the amount you paid.... Like buying a car to drive yourself vs a taxi
Solar with a battery storage system is never going to pay off if your property has grid power available. Grid tie might pay off 20 some years down the road
Paying interest on your solar panels defeats their purpose If your leasing them you’re paying an annuity/perpetuity - which likely cancels out the entire solar panel arrangement
Love your video. I have a ??? Have anyone call in and ask you why the solar show it produce a lot of power but when the Edison bill show up it Show different Less than what is show. Thank you for your time.
..finally .. i really need this information...i have sales people knocking at my door every single weekend here in central FL.......is getting ridiculous...
I hope his system includes batteries considering this salesman is selling him on resiliency. FYI if the grid goes down, a normal grid tied system will shut off to protect any linemen servicing the powerlines
1300$ should get you a good grid tie inverter kit , 500w -1000w diy , each outlet can handle about 1500w per outlet. Look at your KW use , then size it up. It's not ok to borrow , diy , plenty of RUclips n sources to learn. Diy , it's fun cuts down on my bill, I have small unit tester 300w just see and it cuts bill down , I'll be upgrading to 1000w 80-100$ per panel at 100w per once all this blows over
Who would you rather hold the cards you or your utility company? Because without solar your utility holds the cards and just raises your rates without permission.
He'd better read the contract and get additional quotes before signing with this company. Solar company salesmen lie a lot...you'd better read that contract and really understand what you're getting into before you sign - better get all the info on the tax credits, energy coverage, permits needed, etc.
When your power bill is over 200 and your solar bill is only 120 fixed you cut off the power company And now you’re paying to own your power . It’s a no brainer to me.
For everyone who isnt a solar dealer - its ALWAYS cheaper to go cash because you dont include financing fees/ dealer fees , 13k off the solar system is not a sales tactic its the truth - the tactic was in the time limit to build urgency
I live in El Dorado county in CA, my PG&E bill was between 700 to 850 a month. I installed solar panels for 30k and dropped not down around 100 a month. My solar has almost paid for itself. I paid cash for a 10kw system. Got a great deal on it. In my senario it made a lot of sense. I designed the system myself, went out and hired a contractor to install them. Purchased Siemens panels. When I was shopping for solar panels my quotes were around 90k. This is one of the way to get solar a lot cheaper.
Soup Natzi we are also in California near Sacramento with PG&E. Never, ever averaged more than $300 per month and I have a/c and heat on almost all the time when necessary because I have a daycare 6am to 6pm. How can you spend that much?
@@cynthiagraham4046 I ended up installing solar, and pay anywhere from 800 to 1000 end of the year. Just have one bill from PG&E. You may want to install a small system at your place but it has to make sense financially. What I spent on my own system it almost paid for itself.
A large part of the reason your pwer costs are so high is because of all the solar subsidies the utility pays and the absence of revenues they get because they can't charge for services YOU get. Cut the grid tie and quit being a solar racketeeer.
I know this is 3 years ago, but I had the same question. I'm getting pressured to borrow 22k for a loan to put solar panels. Or I could lease. I don't like leasing anything and I heard from so many don't do it! Also, I don't think it would be worth it to go into debt. So, I said no.
I installed my own 10kw system for $5000. You don't need a solar contractor everything you need to learn is online. Solar contractor wanted me to give him $32k for 10kw system. I saved $25k by doing it myself.
Depends. One of my coworkers is making payments on solar panels and his energy savings is more per year than his payments. In 8 years it’s all savings for the next 12-17 years. Money management is more than just “debt = bad”
Adding solar this year for cash buy through an electrian. Quality product, tax incentives, and grid payback. 5.5 year payback on a 25+ year project. Cost is net 12k year 1. Should save $50k out of pocket after 25 years. If moving adds to value of home since i purchased. This guys deal sounds like dave read it. Bad deal.
Solar for me says 50 years payback. Paying like 4000 dollars to cover 50 kilowatts a month. In puetro rico. But power outages are daily. Here solar not pay back plus no tax credits
I looked into solar for my house. 20 year projection out, I would literally have been double my return on solar by just putting the money into savings. Conclusion, I don't have solar panels.
Some people have other reasons for going solar such as being independent from the grid, etc. It's the same reason why some people drill a well instead of simply buying water from their local utility.
Getting a solar system was the biggest mistake I’ve ever made , I’m just sick that I’m paying for a system that is in storage , I’m at a lost to what to how to deal with this stupid mistake I made made . What ever you do if you do get solar is DO NOT BUY FROM TEXAS HOME SOLAR , they are out of Houston Texas. They are a rip off , I think I should’ve sued .
The electric bill is like a negatively amortizing credit card. It never gets paid off, always goes up and will always be there unless you live by candle light
I have a small home 1300sqft and a 10kw on grid System would be plenty for my needs, I can get a DIY kit for $5k not counting the roof hardware and wires and permits. I calculated I can do it myself for about $8500 out the door. Or I can call someone and pay $25k.
Again, good advice from Dave. I am just worried why this caller and his wife are in their 50's and have a household income of $260K... why don't you have the cash? Live within your means and his wife and him should have been worth a couple million at least. Unless their income just grew $100K+ in the past few years, why don't they have money for such a project?
@@MathiasJarlson blaming a women because a guy can't control his spending is pretty low. If he doesn't have willpower or the ability to say no, that is his own failings. Can't scapegoat everything guys... man up a little.
It is so good that you addressed this issue but the main thing you can get a cheap Harbor Freight solar panel but the main thing is having battery backup with an inversion inverter to make your power that's a lot of batteries
I just priced a system for my 3200 square foot house and my quote was around $15000 without on site electricity storage but the power company does 1 for 1 exchange for power produced during the day and power you use during the night. His quote is way out of line.
The best way to do solar, is by doing it yourself. It's not that difficult. You will save thousands of dollars. Buy new panels, buy used electronics and install the system yourself. You should be able to do solar for about $1.75 to $2.25 per watt.
Honestly Solar IS a financially sound decision and can save people 75k -250k over 25 year period versus staying with the electricity companies for the equivalent period… energy rates are skyrocketing.
@@unicornswag888 You've obviously never been in Texas during the summer. His house might be all electric or the rates might be exceptionally high in his area. Take the beam out of your own eye before you take the splinter out of his.
@@unicornswag888 cooling is cheap... try living on the north side of the border or close to the border. we have far more cost in HVAC than the most southern state, no question. think about pleny of day at 0 deg F heating a house to 68.. heat pumps are a lot more efficient cooling down to 74 or whatever you guys cool to!!!
Use that $80k to pay off the house! If he's spending $4k per year on electricity and he's truly concerned about his environmental impact, his first priority should be to dramatically cut his usage. An average American household can quite easily get by on 1/4 of that. If he's worried about losing power from the grid, he can buy a cheap gas or diesel generator. His family should be able to get by for several months in an emergency with 50 or 100 gallons of fuel if they're only using lights and essential appliances. If he's really worried about the apocalypse, he can get a 500W solar panel with a couple batteries and an inverter.
I agree. But I think he would be better making his home better insulated. Most homes in the US are very leaky with poor insulation standards so that we can build them cheap. If we spent 20-40k more on better insulation, air and thermal barriers it wouldn't take much more power than what it costs to run a hair dryer. Small solar panel is all you need then if you want to live off-grid comfortably.
@Andrew Gisler I agree that insulation would be a more logical purchase, but I still think the ROI on either would be joke, especially for a 59-year-old man. Even if the insulation "pays for itself" in the next few decades, he'll likely be dead by then. Do you think his kids will be grateful for it? And honestly, who cares what his kids think? He should just pay off his house, try to enjoy his remaining years, and stop worrying about his great great grandkids' electric bill.
My house is paid for and I'll use as much electricity as I please, thank you very much. Some of us don't want to live like hermits and if it takes a few extra solar panels to generate enough electricity then so be it. When the grid goes down he'll be sitting pretty.
@Lyle G I don't care how much electricity anyone chooses to use. I just think it's crazy for this guy to go 80k into debt to buy a luxury item that won't even "pay for itself" in his lifetime. Then he tries to justify it by claiming it's for environmental reasons. Meanwhile, his house isn't even paid off, and he's consuming enough power for a small village.
I don't understand how in some places solar can be so expensive! I have solar and am now putting more solar panels and have never received a quote like that.
I hate, hate, HATE when people start off like this. "Been listening to you for years and recommend your strategy to everyone I know......now would you object to my taking debt out on *insert random item*."
I love Dave but solar is not a good financial decision yet, 82K for solar is as bad as 82K in student loans. 60k divided by 4k per year is 15 yrs plus the biggest fact is if you invest that 60k you would have made about $180K in those 15yrs in hi yeild stocks instead of just getting your money back
It's different dave, this is something that people are gonna pay for anyways! Do not compare this to a luxury like a pool, no one needs a pool but everybody needs electricity
I'm concerned he's getting ripped off big time. 4k a year is 300 a month of electricity, less than 2x what I pay. But solar for my house would run about 15k with more than enough panels to sell some back to the grid, and cover install and battery back up
im really struggling to understand why solar in the DFW is $40k for a 10kw system without batteries. I look up all the things needed to do it myself and its like 20k with 24kwh worth of batterie storage... where do these companies come up with the cost of install? Am i missing something?
It's a scam stay away from it! I was led to believe I would get a 30% tax credit that I could reapply to my loan turns out its a nonrefundable credit that only goes toward your tax liability wich doesn't help me at all. I was lied to and I am considering hiring an attorney and suing this company.
It shouldn't affect your entire roof. Only the portion(s) affected by the installation of the railing system. Typically what happens is the installer will take over the roof portion and cover the warranty on their own, as well as any issues with penetrations. This is where having a reputable company comes into play.
dave should ask if this property is something they plan on having long term... may be forever, but what if its for the next few years. solar financing is an assumable payment from a person looking to sell the property if the equipment is financed
Man, that’s pricey and don’t make any sense! My house is big and my bill is a little high but $81k will pay off my electric bill in 30 years if not change!! I would try to negotiate price of everything itself if you’re paying cash. Yes, this is why those solar companies don’t want to tell you the price of the system itself. I always tell those sales people okay so what’s the price!? When they beat around the bush am closing my door.
Your property and usage should be large enough for it to make sense If your bill is less than $200/mo, that's gonna take years to break even after federal tax credits and state subsidies
Love how you hype this guy up and say, “You make 260k annual (probably household).” “He’s just a Solar salesman.” Who’s to say a solar representative couldn’t make equivalent income? I guess that’s what happens when you make millions selling envelopes full of pipe dreams.
Sounds like the solar is over priced like Dave said. Solar that is 'huge' can be $2s per watt. Standard is $3s for smaller residential projects. Financing does tack on to the price. He might of be getting batteries...based on the lights out comment. Solar does not work in an outage without batteries.
To install a solar system that will fully replace grid power is too expensive, mainly because storage technology still needs to develop and catch up with the solar panel technology. If I were serious about solar, I would install enough to "take the edge off a hot summer day" and also invest in a good generator for backup power. Don't try to go 100% solar, it just isn't worth it.
Salesman tricked him into actually believing there was a $13,000 time-sensitive discount. Standard sales tactic.
might be a 13k discount on a price inflated by 20k I don't thin kthis guy even calculated the solar needs... I live in a temperate climate, we are predominatly a heating climate whcih takes far more power than cooling, and a system for mine would be 32k (CANADIAN!) to cover consumption. close to half million dollar house also. You will never get the money back on resale, so you better plan to stay there for 10-15 years... never ever get the cash back.
Rookie sales tactic
@@johnjohnstone5206 It worked 😂
Do not believe that, pls!
Actually there are some time sensitive rebates that the utility companies give but they usually only have about a 2 million dollar budget state wide and here in Texas it’s gone by march so the first people on the list get those rebates
People who get solar for their homes are mainly doing it for financial reasons. The problem is they’re not saving any money and in many cases they’re seeing their bills, double and triple. Solar panel sales is this centuries version of aluminum siding
100% wrong. People save 10s of thousands of dollars
82k. Man that would cover my electric bill for 2 lifetimes
I don't think solar panels and an inverter are that expensive. Nowadays, electronics are cheap.
At that price it has to be a VERY large system AND an off grid/battery based system. He did mention "having power when nobody else does" which implies that he is going for battery storage + solar.
Maybe the federal incentives are why costs are so high...when they expire completely, I wonder if they'll come down to earth.
I think the caller had a big house with a lot of AC usage, hence the large electric bills, very similar to Al Gore.
Kevin Lopez yeah you’re right
I've always said if someone wants to do something bad enough they will find a way to justify it.
I got solar in 2017, back then it generated $200 per month, Duke energy rates almost doubled since 2017, so now the offset is equivalent to $350 a month... I paid $18,000 for the system. It also powers my Chevy Volt, offsetting $200 per month in gas costs. The panels will last 30 years... I paid cash for the system.
No panels last 30 years.
So amazing!
@@jeffro221 Yes they do. Many panels have a 30 year warranty and my boss has worked on panels that are over 50 years old and still producing power, on an off-grid system.
$200 a month gas? You drive a tank?
No ones asking how much he’s going to pay to the electric company instead if he doesn’t go solar. Ur already paying for it. Might as well have a locked in fixed rate.
Why do people talk about how they love FPU and then go into "so I there's this thing I want that I can't afford..."?
Because they're human lol
I thought the same thing.... you know what Dave will say..... you’ve taught it to others... why even ask the question
The caller can afford the solar installation.
@@n9wox it doesn't sound like it's a good investment
@@n9wox Having money to buy a time share doesn't means that you should buy it.
Making $260k a year, you can save up $80k by late November or December. Get the quote, save it for reference. Then save up the cash. In this coronavirus environment, any number of salesmen will be jumping to give you a discount, especially at the end of the year when solar sales are low. Dave is right, be patient, be smart. You hold all the cards.
Based on the current tax code language, residential solar systems need to be Installed in 2020 to qualify for the 26% tax credit. If he waits until the end of the year, his project might not even get permitted until 2021
We might not be here in November ☠️
He doesn’t make 260,000 a year everyone that calls in embellishes their income because it’s human nature and it makes them feel better just as everyone including myself thinks their house is worth more than it is
@@jamesjazzy8040 so are the people who say they make $40k also lying? You could also just take people at their word.
@@yamamancha Yeah there's a couple people that say they make $40K. Not many though :) Everybody's a big time earner in their own mind
My solar story - I could never make solar math work. Seems to me I would just be trading paying the electric company for the solar installers all while taking on the maintenance burden. After plenty of research, I purchased 144 used solar panels and new micro inverters and installed them on a 40x80 shed. Not hard to do if you have help and are a little handy. So far our production has covered our usage and we are getting minimum electric bills ($23). I estimate my payoff will be between 5-7 years. It was a lot of work but worth it. The best part, other than no bill, is that I don’t care what happens to electricity prices anymore.
Nice. Glad you made it work for you. I have to visit my parents very soon. Found out too late that they had Sunrun install solar panels on their roof. From what I understand, they were told it would be free...??? Yeah, need to look at the contract because they are getting bills plus I am worried about their insurance cancelling their homeowners policy.
@@penguinsforever1609this happened to a couple in Houston. They made it on the news and the company ended up removing the panels due to misrepresentation.
That is really the only way to do it. You do it yourself, avoid a company, avoid the calls, and pay about 50% less. Its shocking that people still get fooled into paying extra just to get a small tax credit. DO IT YOURSELF. A PALLET of used panels is $1,000. This caller is talking about $82K WTF!!!
That’s so sad. An honest company like mine after all is said and done the costumer almost always pays a little less a month than they did previously. Hope this guy isn’t ruined forever
Whenever alumni calls in I get embarrassed for them before they even speak.
alumni of what?
Imagine what that $80k would do in that same 15 year period (or longer) invested into a high growth ROTH 401k!!
Then rethink your purchase immediately!!
I wish we had that income though 👌🏻
100% agreed, i sell solar myself and when clients want to pay cash thats what i tell them to do instead but not financial advice lol
I installed panels but paid cash for the system. We are on our 4th year with solar with 10% a year return. I paid $21,000 before incentives for 7.39kilowatts. My system generates $1,300 a year.
I live in Texas with a fairly new house. A Tesla system that I priced was $41k, with about 14-16k of tax credits. HOWEVER, our Texas electric coop rates are so cheap that it would take me over 10 years to break even. So I am going to wait. The technology is getting better and cheaper.
"Saving the world" and "Protecting the environment" is a luxury. Non-rich people should never go down this route. Stick to gas-powered cars and electricity from coal, we're not wealthy enough to care about the environment. Let the rich people take care of that.
@@JackIsNotInTheBox Short sighted on your part.
Rofl bet you wish you did now
@@jamesborden9343 Nope. We had minimal electricity outages thanks to our member owned electric coop. But, I will ask our builder to give me a bid on a Generac whole house generator. There's only a 6 month waiting list🤣
And you will need to think about the roof maintenance with it's being covered by huge panels.
Dave is so in touch. He realizes that 250k/yr is good money even though his net worth is over 50 million.
it is very good money
@@dknowles60 I am currently in Dubai
This isn’t good money 🤣
@@carltonthepug i in the us. in 90% of the us that is very good money
Exactly
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Get multiple quotes from different installers. I am in the industry myself and on a project this large, I guarantee you someone can do more than $13K off
Same and same!
You have opened my eyes to saving and living debt free and I'm currently reading your book "more than enough" and it's amazing. Thank you sir
The Richest Man in Babylon is another good book. You can download the book in PDF or audio book on RUclips. Great reads.
@@55Quirll thank you I'll check it out
@@zacharyrenderer6940 More then welcome
People often talk about the break even point on these sorts of things, but they never talk about the break even if you took that same money and invested it.
Paying cash for solar panels in one of the southern states like California, Arizona, Texas, etc. Is a great idea that will save you money in the long run, if you plan to live in the same house for 10+ years. Debt, probably not.
biggriggs23 those aren’t southern states those are western only southern state that gets constant sunshine for solar panels is Florida, if I’m not mistaken but I could be
@@kentmill5463 Kent, I guess you forget that this caller is coming from Texas right?
Are electric bills insane in those areas?
Even debt based, it is largely worth it in those regions. Nevada as well. Even IL.
@@brianbest6097 Not in Texas. Around San Antonio electric is less than 7 cents per kilowatt hour. With the savings from solar I would never break even before they would need to be replaced. Even with the tax credit.
I love the idea of solar, but these federal credits have caused it to be the biggest scam... 80k to install a system??? its cheaper to rewire the entire house....
Why do you think it's federal credits that have caused this high price? He is getting a massive system, that is why the cost is so high.
Use a burner stove electricity is not always reliable and now solar panels are not always reliable
Watched this and noticed it was before the big power debacle in Texas. If I lived in Texas I wouldn't risk it, I would do solar ASAP as my state is so foolish as to not connect with the rest of the country's power grid. People died in the winter because they had no heat.
I live in Texas, so, I know what you are talking about. It's ridiculous how much the kWh is going up. On average, it's about 16.8 cents/kWh. If I can qualify for solar, I am going to get it.
Dave roasting my dude 😂🔥
He needs to do that more
Sounds like he flunked his own fpu class
The best way to roll solar is to DIY. Yes you have to know what you are doing but at a small fraction of the cost, this guy can have a decent system that pays for itself much faster.
My neighbor did that. He did hire a Master electrician to hook up the panels to his home though.
Yes, the installation of solar is way over priced. DIY is the only way to make Solar pay back quickly.
An emergency backup solar system to run basics is good. Solar generators or a small system to learn on and have cooking, electric blankets, lights, devices covered. A few low watt appliances. Portable Fridge or freezer, induction burner, few 100ah Lifepo4 batteries that last over ten years at least. Yes, need a spot where the sun shines. A solar cooker oven doesn’t even need electricity. Good to have for emergencies, power outages, camping, road trips etc.. They can be expanded or add another system for more power as you learn or want to invest more knowing more how it works.
What until you’re thinking about building a house from the ground up. Every builder I talk to is “getting ready to raise their lot premiums or the building materials are getting ready to go up significantly!”
23k for my solar took the loan because of that that I found Dave with his advise on these videos after 6 months its paid off due to tax credit , throwing all my additional budget and bonus it is payed off. 90 dollars a month went to 10 dollars and the extra daylight and summer has not kicked in to bank credits to make it no cost.
Electric rates went through the roof since this video was made. Mine have nearly doubled! I pay 500 dollars at a minimum and they can go over 1k in the summer. They were much lower when this video was made. Solar making a lot more sense now than then.
That is a huge solar project. I live in Texas and also have 30 panels. Rates are cheap here compared to west coast. My break even was 5 years and covers 60% of my energy load. I don't think I would pull the trigger to go totally off grid in this market.
He said nothing about going off the grid he just said that the seller will cover 100% of his needs if the grid were to go down as Solar goes down with it he never said anything about battery back ups you can’t go off grid with Solar that’s a myth
82K is too high, most of the systems we sell are $30K to $40K, before the 30% tax credit, payback is 7.5 years here in Florida on a grid tied system. The battery back-up will NOT lower your bill. A system that costs $22K after the tax credit will generate $300 per month here in Tampa.
I don’t get this. Bought solar six months ago with a 10 year loan. Was paying $250 a month in electricity prior to solar. No paying $168 a month for a loan and $25 a month for electric bill. Why would I not do this from a cash flow perspective.
Because you are still paying interest every day you don't pay that off. You can save more money by paying off your loan.
Congrats though, you got a better deal than this guy.
@@ruthiemuqatach5942 I’m no debt lover but if you have to buy all of your power from your power provider you are also paying their interest charges. So either way interest is getting paid. Aside from that, borrowing money is almost essential to make a lot of money in real estate.
For realls I don’t get it either
Yes this is the sensible way to do it. I'm not sure who this host is, he clearly doesn't understand borrowing cheap and investing it elsewhere by keeping cash at hand
I literally helped a financial advisor go solar and he financed it lol… then used his cash to buy more real estate. He only wanted to lock in his power payment to hedge inflation
Rent electric forever or purchase solar, with the same funds. If you rent electric why not rent a house forever?
I pay around $2000 a year for electric probably less, and was quoted $47k for solar , I just took the cash and bought a few dividend stock that pay me around 3300 a year . now i am going to buy a whole home generator for emergencys for $7000 installed. I dont think i would live in my home long enough to pay off the solar and it was so expensive to purchase.
Only way to buy a solar panel system is to buy it cash(and when you can afford it). It takes so long to break even and the credits or rebates are not worth the debt.
I’m amazed at how dumb some people who make serious bank are...
They probably bring it on themselves because they make so much that spending a lot is no big deal.
mac1bc well, this says he taught FPU but he’s calling Dave to get his opinion about borrowing money 🤣🤣🤣
Yes you see a lot of people saying I am only paying 15 dollars a month for electric but what they dont say is the loan for the panels is way more what they were paying for electric
That's the catch entire forgets.. Including depreciation.... After 20 years. You have to buy it again.... So the price is really hidden twice as much as the amount you paid.... Like buying a car to drive yourself vs a taxi
Solar with a battery storage system is never going to pay off if your property has grid power available. Grid tie might pay off 20 some years down the road
Paying interest on your solar panels defeats their purpose
If your leasing them you’re paying an annuity/perpetuity - which likely cancels out the entire solar panel arrangement
It depends... I got a deal for 0.99% interest rate.
Love your video. I have a ??? Have anyone call in and ask you why the solar show it produce a lot of power but when the Edison bill show up it Show different Less than what is show. Thank you for your time.
..finally .. i really need this information...i have sales people knocking at my door every single weekend here in central FL.......is getting ridiculous...
Get a grid tide system you can sell your SREC’s to, save your money on batteries and buy a generator or two.
I hope his system includes batteries considering this salesman is selling him on resiliency. FYI if the grid goes down, a normal grid tied system will shut off to protect any linemen servicing the powerlines
Ehhhh. Maybe. KWH is fluid.
You can also get a smart switch
@@robertmills7058 Still have to have batteries, or a generator backup. Until then, switch or no, grid tie is dark when the power fails.
What if the Interest rate is very reasonable at 1.49% and ROI is 10 years and plan to live in this home for at least 18 years?
Solar isn’t like buying a pool. You throw out money to the electric company every month. You’re paying them anyway. Why not own your power?
1300$ should get you a good grid tie inverter kit , 500w -1000w diy , each outlet can handle about 1500w per outlet. Look at your KW use , then size it up. It's not ok to borrow , diy , plenty of RUclips n sources to learn. Diy , it's fun cuts down on my bill, I have small unit tester 300w just see and it cuts bill down , I'll be upgrading to 1000w 80-100$ per panel at 100w per once all this blows over
Id rather have the 90,000$ dump truck,the return payback would be far better and has resale value.(:
Solar is growing though.
18 wheeler.... Rolling cash machine!!!
Great life advice from Dave. When you’ve got the money, you’re holding all the cards.
When you have money, no debt, and no home loans you will have the upper hand on most people.
Who would you rather hold the cards you or your utility company?
Because without solar your utility holds the cards and just raises your rates without permission.
He'd better read the contract and get additional quotes before signing with this company. Solar company salesmen lie a lot...you'd better read that contract and really understand what you're getting into before you sign - better get all the info on the tax credits, energy coverage, permits needed, etc.
When your power bill is over 200 and your solar bill is only 120 fixed you cut off the power company And now you’re paying to own your power . It’s a no brainer to me.
For everyone who isnt a solar dealer - its ALWAYS cheaper to go cash because you dont include financing fees/ dealer fees , 13k off the solar system is not a sales tactic its the truth - the tactic was in the time limit to build urgency
I live in El Dorado county in CA, my PG&E bill was between 700 to 850 a month. I installed solar panels for 30k and dropped not down around 100 a month. My solar has almost paid for itself. I paid cash for a 10kw system. Got a great deal on it. In my senario it made a lot of sense. I designed the system myself, went out and hired a contractor to install them. Purchased Siemens panels. When I was shopping for solar panels my quotes were around 90k. This is one of the way to get solar a lot cheaper.
Soup Natzi we are also in California near Sacramento with PG&E. Never, ever averaged more than $300 per month and I have a/c and heat on almost all the time when necessary because I have a daycare 6am to 6pm. How can you spend that much?
@@cynthiagraham4046 I live in El Dorado Hills and my house is 5500 sqft with a pool. That's why my bills we so high.
@@cynthiagraham4046 I ended up installing solar, and pay anywhere from 800 to 1000 end of the year. Just have one bill from PG&E. You may want to install a small system at your place but it has to make sense financially. What I spent on my own system it almost paid for itself.
That crazy 900 pse bill per month.. 90k is alot of money to pay for solar
A large part of the reason your pwer costs are so high is because of all the solar subsidies the utility pays and the absence of revenues they get because they can't charge for services YOU get.
Cut the grid tie and quit being a solar racketeeer.
I know this is 3 years ago, but I had the same question. I'm getting pressured to borrow 22k for a loan to put solar panels. Or I could lease. I don't like leasing anything and I heard from so many don't do it! Also, I don't think it would be worth it to go into debt. So, I said no.
*Compare different solar panel companies since they are all different before you do it.* 😉
Exactly what I'm thinking.
For sure.
I installed my own 10kw system for $5000. You don't need a solar contractor everything you need to learn is online. Solar contractor wanted me to give him $32k for 10kw system. I saved $25k by doing it myself.
Its not always just about money money. Half of it isn't a luxury but a benefit to the future of our climate and our planet.
Depends. One of my coworkers is making payments on solar panels and his energy savings is more per year than his payments. In 8 years it’s all savings for the next 12-17 years. Money management is more than just “debt = bad”
Adding solar this year for cash buy through an electrian. Quality product, tax incentives, and grid payback. 5.5 year payback on a 25+ year project. Cost is net 12k year 1. Should save $50k out of pocket after 25 years. If moving adds to value of home since i purchased.
This guys deal sounds like dave read it. Bad deal.
Solar for me says 50 years payback. Paying like 4000 dollars to cover 50 kilowatts a month. In puetro rico. But power outages are daily. Here solar not pay back plus no tax credits
He should try solar water heater first. It's cheaper and still lower you electric, by 30% (on average ). Rough estimate.
We have customers in west Texas who ended with checks for 2020 for over production. They ranged from $250 all the way to $926.
Electricity provider here in Northern Indiana has stopped paying for power sent back through the meter.
@@davidcurtis5398 Who owns the grid out there?
I looked into solar for my house. 20 year projection out, I would literally have been double my return on solar by just putting the money into savings. Conclusion, I don't have solar panels.
Some people have other reasons for going solar such as being independent from the grid, etc. It's the same reason why some people drill a well instead of simply buying water from their local utility.
@@LG123ABC Of course, but at that point solar panels are a toy purchase, and need to be treated and financed as such.
Hey it’s another om617 guy! Mines going into a Jeep though....
@@M1ttnss Yessir, it's a fun little monster.
Still smarter the finance solar at a low rate then pay Warren buffet for every
Getting a solar system was the biggest mistake I’ve ever made , I’m just sick that I’m paying for a system that is in storage , I’m at a lost to what to how to deal with this stupid mistake I made made . What ever you do if you do get solar is DO NOT BUY FROM TEXAS HOME SOLAR , they are out of Houston Texas. They are a rip off , I think I should’ve sued .
The electric bill is like a negatively amortizing credit card. It never gets paid off, always goes up and will always be there unless you live by candle light
I have a small home 1300sqft and a 10kw on grid System would be plenty for my needs, I can get a DIY kit for $5k not counting the roof hardware and wires and permits. I calculated I can do it myself for about $8500 out the door. Or I can call someone and pay $25k.
Tell me more.what panels, what battery
Again, good advice from Dave. I am just worried why this caller and his wife are in their 50's and have a household income of $260K... why don't you have the cash? Live within your means and his wife and him should have been worth a couple million at least. Unless their income just grew $100K+ in the past few years, why don't they have money for such a project?
James Forinash because women believe a man’s higher income means a more expensive lifestyle
Matt P Pretty much.
@@MathiasJarlson blaming a women because a guy can't control his spending is pretty low. If he doesn't have willpower or the ability to say no, that is his own failings. Can't scapegoat everything guys... man up a little.
Paid for their kids’ college tuition?? Lost a business or two along the way? High medical bills? Who knows.
It is so good that you addressed this issue but the main thing you can get a cheap Harbor Freight solar panel but the main thing is having battery backup with an inversion inverter to make your power that's a lot of batteries
Wait, there's two main things? The first is the main thing, the next is the secondary thing.
I just priced a system for my 3200 square foot house and my quote was around $15000 without on site electricity storage but the power company does 1 for 1 exchange for power produced during the day and power you use during the night. His quote is way out of line.
The best way to do solar, is by doing it yourself. It's not that difficult. You will save thousands of dollars. Buy new panels, buy used electronics and install the system yourself. You should be able to do solar for about $1.75 to $2.25 per watt.
Honestly Solar IS a financially sound decision and can save people 75k -250k over 25 year period versus staying with the electricity companies for the equivalent period… energy rates are skyrocketing.
This guy must be running a welder, a dryer, and air conditioning 24x7 (and has an electric car to charge) for 80K worth of solar.
Exactly. A $4k annual bill is INSANE. And he claims to care about his environmental impact? Maybe start by turning down the AC.
@@unicornswag888 You've obviously never been in Texas during the summer. His house might be all electric or the rates might be exceptionally high in his area. Take the beam out of your own eye before you take the splinter out of his.
@Lyle G
I've lived in the southwest US, and dealt with 110°+ temps in the summer. $4k is ridiculous.
@@LG123ABC if that's the case he needs to spend 2k on some blown-in insulation; not 80k on solar.
@@unicornswag888 cooling is cheap... try living on the north side of the border or close to the border. we have far more cost in HVAC than the most southern state, no question. think about pleny of day at 0 deg F heating a house to 68.. heat pumps are a lot more efficient cooling down to 74 or whatever you guys cool to!!!
Use that $80k to pay off the house!
If he's spending $4k per year on electricity and he's truly concerned about his environmental impact, his first priority should be to dramatically cut his usage. An average American household can quite easily get by on 1/4 of that.
If he's worried about losing power from the grid, he can buy a cheap gas or diesel generator. His family should be able to get by for several months in an emergency with 50 or 100 gallons of fuel if they're only using lights and essential appliances. If he's really worried about the apocalypse, he can get a 500W solar panel with a couple batteries and an inverter.
I agree.
But I think he would be better making his home better insulated. Most homes in the US are very leaky with poor insulation standards so that we can build them cheap. If we spent 20-40k more on better insulation, air and thermal barriers it wouldn't take much more power than what it costs to run a hair dryer. Small solar panel is all you need then if you want to live off-grid comfortably.
@Andrew Gisler
I agree that insulation would be a more logical purchase, but I still think the ROI on either would be joke, especially for a 59-year-old man. Even if the insulation "pays for itself" in the next few decades, he'll likely be dead by then. Do you think his kids will be grateful for it? And honestly, who cares what his kids think? He should just pay off his house, try to enjoy his remaining years, and stop worrying about his great great grandkids' electric bill.
@@unicornswag888 Absolutely right!
My house is paid for and I'll use as much electricity as I please, thank you very much. Some of us don't want to live like hermits and if it takes a few extra solar panels to generate enough electricity then so be it. When the grid goes down he'll be sitting pretty.
@Lyle G
I don't care how much electricity anyone chooses to use. I just think it's crazy for this guy to go 80k into debt to buy a luxury item that won't even "pay for itself" in his lifetime. Then he tries to justify it by claiming it's for environmental reasons. Meanwhile, his house isn't even paid off, and he's consuming enough power for a small village.
I don't understand how in some places solar can be so expensive! I have solar and am now putting more solar panels and have never received a quote like that.
What is the breakeven point of having electric company?
You can slash the price in half by DIY. Solar is not that hard. Especially if you have enough land to do a ground mount, no need to deal with roofing.
I have heard so many people call Dave and ask os it okay to go into debt that they should call this show Can we trick Dave into saying yes to debt?
I hate, hate, HATE when people start off like this. "Been listening to you for years and recommend your strategy to everyone I know......now would you object to my taking debt out on *insert random item*."
I love Dave but solar is not a good financial decision yet, 82K for solar is as bad as 82K in student loans. 60k divided by 4k per year is 15 yrs plus the biggest fact is if you invest that 60k you would have made about $180K in those 15yrs in hi yeild stocks instead of just getting your money back
The only time you should buy solar is when you get a battery system with it. That becomes very expensive. I bought solar and it's a waste of money.
I agree with some of this. But I agree solar is not bad but there are bad companies and bad salesman
Any guy walking on the street can decide he is going to sell solar. The next day he is signing someone up for 50k. Scary
It's different dave, this is something that people are gonna pay for anyways! Do not compare this to a luxury like a pool, no one needs a pool but everybody needs electricity
I'm concerned he's getting ripped off big time. 4k a year is 300 a month of electricity, less than 2x what I pay. But solar for my house would run about 15k with more than enough panels to sell some back to the grid, and cover install and battery back up
He should ask Tesla if they Price match!
You are ... confused
im really struggling to understand why solar in the DFW is $40k for a 10kw system without batteries. I look up all the things needed to do it myself and its like 20k with 24kwh worth of batterie storage... where do these companies come up with the cost of install? Am i missing something?
Paid cash for mine and I make 25k a year. Tax credits are a scam used by overpriced installers.
If you're looking for away to help the environment you can use ecosia they are a search engine that plants trees.
How about look at increasing your home insulation instead and reduce electric consumption through lifestyle changes
If you pay cash, you should get a big discount, since many solar companies charge a 6%+ interest rate on your loan for the install.
Paying cash should save you 30% from the dealer fees the finance company charges
He is getting ripped off. Don't let him bully you!
It's a scam stay away from it! I was led to believe I would get a 30% tax credit that I could reapply to my loan turns out its a nonrefundable credit that only goes toward your tax liability wich doesn't help me at all. I was lied to and I am considering hiring an attorney and suing this company.
I have a buddy who got bamboozled into spending 70k on a solar panel install. I told him not to do it.
Question for you who have solar panels on your roof. Will it affect your warranty or increase insurance rates since the roof will have penetrations?
It shouldn't affect your entire roof. Only the portion(s) affected by the installation of the railing system. Typically what happens is the installer will take over the roof portion and cover the warranty on their own, as well as any issues with penetrations. This is where having a reputable company comes into play.
It ties into your hoi 😊
dave should ask if this property is something they plan on having long term... may be forever, but what if its for the next few years. solar financing is an assumable payment from a person looking to sell the property if the equipment is financed
Man, that’s pricey and don’t make any sense! My house is big and my bill is a little high but $81k will pay off my electric bill in 30 years if not change!! I would try to negotiate price of everything itself if you’re paying cash. Yes, this is why those solar companies don’t want to tell you the price of the system itself. I always tell those sales people okay so what’s the price!? When they beat around the bush am closing my door.
Obviously it’s debt, but it’s not something you can avoid. You’re going to have to pay it regardless if you don’t buy panels.
Yep. Nothing like a pool.
Your property and usage should be large enough for it to make sense
If your bill is less than $200/mo, that's gonna take years to break even after federal tax credits and state subsidies
80k for a solar panel? That's very expensive.. I heard these were around 30 to 40k.
If you get the storage battery it is
It’s all relative to energy usage. Solar isn’t one size fits all.
Love how you hype this guy up and say, “You make 260k annual (probably household).” “He’s just a Solar salesman.” Who’s to say a solar representative couldn’t make equivalent income? I guess that’s what happens when you make millions selling envelopes full of pipe dreams.
We got ours for 18k, powers both electric vehicles and the house for free. Worth it if you have the cash.
@@mattmcgehee2312 Yep the solar guy easily clear $400k if he hustles and is good at sales
Sounds like the solar is over priced like Dave said. Solar that is 'huge' can be $2s per watt. Standard is $3s for smaller residential projects. Financing does tack on to the price. He might of be getting batteries...based on the lights out comment. Solar does not work in an outage without batteries.
Exactly. Spot on.
To install a solar system that will fully replace grid power is too expensive, mainly because storage technology still needs to develop and catch up with the solar panel technology. If I were serious about solar, I would install enough to "take the edge off a hot summer day" and also invest in a good generator for backup power. Don't try to go 100% solar, it just isn't worth it.
Unless you’re building a net zero home then I agree with this entirely.
I been waiting for this one!
The break-even period is key!