I Took Out A HELOC For Solar Panels! (And I Make $200,000 A Year)
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- Опубликовано: 18 янв 2023
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This show has taught me time and time again that your income potential is not tied to your intelligence.
He installs HVAC. HVAC installers are very valuable because it is hard work and not many are willing to do it. But it doesn't require a 140 IQ. Just a strong work ethic.
@semosancus5506 yes.
Its vermont so probably trying to keep up with green obsessed neighbors
Income level is tied to some combination of intelligence and hard work. Just because you’re good at engineering doesn’t mean you inherently have good financial sense or good resistance to a salesman’s pitch
@@tylersanders2388 thencallow me to edit my statement: your income potential is not directly related to your intelligence.
This guy doesn't sound 34, I thought he was 60+
That’s kind of a rude comment.
@@khaitran8951 it's not rude, his voice is just very mature sounding. Nothing wrong with that!
You know what’s crazy is he isn’t the only guy doing the whole solar thing and a $800 car payments. We need to standardize financial education
People have plenty of sources to learn about money. They choose to ignore smart choices then wonder why things fall apart.
Zero common sense.
Twelve years of reading and math should be enough.
@@Andrew_406
My parents had us saving money in piggy bank and a savings account in our name at preschool.
@@blackworldtraveler3711 Key word...Should be
Their math is off on taking 100 years for ROI. During the life of the loan, he's saving $30 a month. But once the loan is paid off, he is saving his $300 average monthly.
@Mac im jealous honestly
Live in upstate NY, about 60 mins from VT and the sunlight amount surely isn't like out West. Solar panels "life" is approximately 20 years and they produce less power as they age. That doesn't include the support electronics(inverter/converter/controller) and if they fail or age out. Just a poor investment in the Northeast...
@Mac Or buying a Prius when a regular fuel-efficient Honda or Toyota is so much cheaper. It’s nothing but arrogant virtue signaling.
@Mac I’m a buy in cash type of guy so I’m no longer jealous 😅
@Mac
Then realizing you lost 50% of you battery driving from LA to Lake Tahoe due to cold weather.
"You're not gonna be alive to collect the ROI" - Damn that woke him up
This call scares me for humanity.
You trust George’s math.
Never discussed in the call: the net metering solar system still requires you to be tied into the grid. Even if you paid cash for the solar system you’re still stuck paying the electric company basic charges and meter fees which are likely $60/month once you count both your standard and off-peak meter.
But the solar company will tell you “never have a power bill again.” Greatest lie in the solar industry.
@@humblekind4189 NYC Here, is a $20/month connection charge
@@godfathaofyo When I looked into it, my monthly bill would only be $13 to $17. Not nothing, but not bad either.
To my mind, the numbers can work IF I pay cash for the install vs financing or leasing. It would also make more sense if I had an EV or plug in hybrid as the output of my install would roughly equal most of what I'd use driving all year.
In Virginia you just pay taxes so 8.94 a month to remain connected.
@@humblekind4189 yep people never truly look at their bill, there are so many city, county, state fees, etc that are all base charges. Don’t forget the solar only works well in places that get a lot of sun and they need to be maintained/cleaned to get the maximum efficiency.
And this is why renewable energy still isn't there yet.
Renewable energy is actually super efficient. I think modern solar panels are around 90% efficient. They can’t get much better just by the laws of physics. The technology is there, it just simply isn’t and won’t be as cheap or easy as burning coal/gas
@@tylersanders2388
They are not that efficient.
@@tylersanders2388 so only for middle class and higher.
@@blackworldtraveler3711 yeah my bad the 90% figure is from university research. That’s what the next generation will be once they perfect it and get it in production
@@hamohun7569 yeah that’s exactly what renewable energy is. America has a huge amount of wealthier citizens who can afford to spend 10x more for energy without any serious issues
You do have to pay for electricity. The electric company will charge him a service fee whether you use their electricity or not.
They got the math wrong. At least get it correct 😒
How did they do the math wrong? Guy was saying he would save $360 a year by giving out $38k. Not including interest costs it would take 105 yrs to make $38k at $360 a year.
And don't they put a lien on the house, until it's paid off. AND by the time your finished paying for it. Don't you have to upgrade?
Someone tried to sell me solar and I let them pitch me it then whipped out a calculator and destroyed their math
Good for You
Leasing is horrible, but buying them is worth it. Depends where you live I got over $13k back from the governments on a $23K system.
So worth it to you but it's really just a tax refund unless you don't pay much tax and then your neighbor paid
@@georgewagner7787 I play plenty of tax for stuff I don't use. My neighbors didn't pay for me. The hand outs were so good for two years that I'd say well over half the neighborhood got solar panels one way or another. You can tell the people who got lease systems installed from some company because they covered the roof on the south and the NORTH side. Which of course is dumb.
@@davidhill850 they were trying to sell them to me but the numbers were all fabricated and didn’t make sense . Not a cash deal it was a loan and “reduce your bill promise”
He makes $200k and have $1k in savings. "What are you trying to out do me?" lol
And solar panels wear out.
How about when you need to replace the roof? The roof guys aren’t taking the panels off for free.
This is the main problem I see. Photovoltaic panels lose most of their efficiency after 7-10 years. By the time you pay them off they need to be replaced so you never get to enjoy them without payments.
@@Gramps935 That's incorrect. Most of them take 25 years to get down to 80% output of new.
@@silentnot4812 Maybe someday it will be small and unobtrusive.
@@silentnot4812 I dunno, home solar panels have been huge for a long time now.
Solar Panels are a passion project. It doesn't pencil out. Only pay cash. Never get a loan. Only get them if you have cash and a passion for it.
There are a lot of people who come out ahead, especially if they live in a sunny state with good incentives like CA, NV or NM. I get that Ramsey fans are dogmatically opposed to debt, but the fact is most people don't have the cash to buy a solar system outright, but it can still be a good financial decision to finance in the long run. There are many solar businesses that offer bad financing deals, but that doesn't mean financing is inherently bad.
@@theartofbecoming5429 this guy sells solar panels :D
Sometimes we know a decision is completely stupid but we need someone else to tell us it's stupid before we believe it.
Sometimes you believe people who are really bad at math and take their word.
The math on his solar installation needs to be clarified. $36k should get you a 20KW or greater setup with some battery backup. That should completely eliminate his bill on most days. His electric bill would average $100 a month in the worse case. It would take less than 100 years to pay off. It could be between 10 and 20, depending on interest and how much he pays monthly. Not saying anyone should go into debt for solar, but you also can't say that it never pays itself off in your lifetime. With energy bills north of $600 a month, people wouldn't be crazy to look for ways to make their own power.
Really? Pay it off in 20 years while it has to be replaced in 20 years? Where's the savings then. And you did not factor in the maintenance.
I understand that pro solar folk want to justify everything about it, but the math does not compute.
They design it so when you finally break even you have to replace it and get another loan!
They are completely ignoring the 30% tax break which would give him around $11,000k back in the first year...
When I installed solar it was 30% state and 30% federal tax credits.
If you guys wouldn't steam role Will with your spiel and ask more questions, Will was saying he wouldn't have an electric bill after the loan was paid off. It sounds like his electric bill is $300/mo. avg. and the HELOC payment (not the new elec. bill) will be $270/mo. With this info you can back into the loan he was offered - 15yr term 3.99% rate $12K total interest $273.5/mo payment. This would make the pay back/ROI 13.67yrs(assuming electricity rates don't increase.. yeah right). I totally agree that debt is dumb and cash is king but can we at least present an accurate picture.
The calculation was ridiculous.
Yup. Im assuming they made the wrong assumptions on the numbers he gave them. I doubt that its gonna take over a 100 yrs to ROI. Not that solar ROI is short, but still its not that bad.
But if he wants solar, he should not take loans for it, if he is trying to follow the Ramsey plan.
@@rist98 yea and worst thing is they know thier speil was not correct. and they were only playing to the Gods of the RUclips.. how are they better than what some of the Solar companies are doing..
He should also get a tax credit of 30%. My Solar quote was 34K, then I get 10K as a tax credit the next year. If I go ahead I plan to pay down the 24K left in a few years. For me money wise its not a bad deal if I stay in my home for 8+ years. Clearly a long time. Like him along my way its roughly break even Loan vs Bill. Thats said, You have to want Solar for more than just the money.
ROI is more like 20-25 yrs on a 5% interest and $300 a month bill (discounting the loan period payments). Either way, it’s a long time. If you pay it off sooner then you are better off for sure. But you are still buying something that will depreciate and need maintenance and replacement at some point so it’s still like buying a car to some degree. There are much better investments out there.
Long term the stuff needs to be maintained and it wears out too!!!
@Donovan Lewis everything wears out eventually
LOL…”What are you trying to outdo me!?” 😂
$800+ car note….no stinkin way!
My understand is that your roof must be relatively new, ready to go for 20 years before the panels go on. After you spend 20 years financing this project, they need a massive maintenance which will cost you a lot of money all over again. At that point you need a new roof, too. If you are trying to move in the middle of financing this, someone told me their contract read that they gotta take them off and take them with them at their own expense.
I could see solar panels as a worthwhile investment if you had a lot of land and built a solar field to get off the grid. I'm not sure it makes sense to add them to a home. The reasons you mentioned and the limited roof space make it seem like a poor investment.
@@whywouldigivemyrealname5162 Completely agree. A solar 'garden' is a better investment while also serving off grid values.
Totally agree!!! Also after you take the panels off the roof, you're left with holes, now you have to replace the roof.
They don’t need big maintenance after 20 years and you don’t need to spend 20 years financing it, probably more like 8-12. It does, however, make sense to take care you don’t install solar within 5-10 years of your roof needing to be replaced since it adds cost to the replacement to take down and remount the solar. I would personally likely not want to plan to replace my roof within the financing term of the solar.
Also if you decide in a few years to sell your house. Maybe a potential buyer doesn’t want your solar panels & doesn’t want to inherit the problems associated with solar panels on the roof.
I have solar. Their math is wrong. He pays $300 a month for electric. So now with Solar he pay $270 INSTEAD of his electric. So his ROI will be much sooner than they say.
Yeah they do not get this. Paying toward the solar instead of utility
You are absolutely right. The bad math and misinformation on this episode is so disappointing
He pays more like $370 instead of his electric when maintenance costs are factored in.
It’s amazing how many stupid mistakes you can make and still be okay when you’re making $200k. It’s the households with limited skills working incredibly hard and still only making $45k that I really feel bad for, that’s gotta be difficult.
It’s really not that hard to make a decent income as a man! They just gotta put in that work and don’t settle
This call is hilarious. Lol
"You're not going to be alive by the time you're ROI on this thing." "True" 🤣
Great call on this one! People need to understand the simple math and how not to get scammed on these panels. 🌞🌞🌞
Unreal. Makes 200k and only has 1000 dollars in the bank.
Solar is crazy, I've had so many companies trying to push me to do it. A friend installs them and ran the sun calculations and because of shade I may never realize a benefit of it.
Solar panels in Arizona, reasonable. Solar panels in VT, why?
Their math is wrong. He’s currently paying $36k for 10 years of electricity. ($300/month). The solar system will cost him $36k. So for the cost of 10 years of electric bills he will own a system that will provide possibly 20 years of service. So he cuts his bills in half in the long run.
Did my man just quote Bruno mars 😂 “I’m a dangerous mannnnn with some money in my pocket “
George did the math wrong here
There will always be a lot of lessons from your content! Keep it up!
On my Engineering degree first year in University we were made to do presentations on ROI on things like solar, wind turbines and electric cars, it was an eye opener I was shocked that you can never break even on a Tesla at its premium price
I would have guessed that about a car. Panels not so obvious
I learned about that in high school, don’t need a fancy degree to know about this. Heck I learned about ROI when i was in 5th grade in the late 90’s.
Break even on a Tesla? How could you ever break even on smth that doesn't even generate an income?
If you're comparing a Tesla to an ICE car, then it depends what you compare to.
The RAMSEY team will always have jobs 😂
I get an email every month that contains county permits issued in my county.lately a large number of the permits are for solar panels. There is a reason these companies go door to door trying to sell them.
Good advice. One of your best.
Most roof warranties are void if you put solar panels on them. Plus we have lots of hail storms where I live.
FUD
Key is to make your house as energy efficient as possible, and have a grid interfacing system installed that sells power you're not using to the grid.
WOW! I just finished this video and an ad popped up saying how much I could save and that "there's never been a better time to go solar"! 🤣😂 I know it's targeted from the description but that got me good.
Isn't selling solar panels in Burlington, VT similar to selling surf tank wave machines in Hawaii?
Is he using $30/mo to calculate roi? That wouldn't be the calculation. Only until the loan + interest is paid off. After 10 years that goes up to $300/mo.
By which time the panels need to be replaced and the process begins again.
Wish I'd found this before I financed my solar panels at 53k... but there's a federal tax incentive in the neighborhood of 16k I can apply to the principal. So ~37k is financed at 4.99 percent interest... the payment per month ends up being in the same neighborhood as my electric bill already was, but the pitch was that the energy companies are trying to increase the rates in the next 3-5 years, and my electric company is a middle man buying from another electric company, so my rates are already higher than they should be. So far (November/December) the panels have reduced my energy bill by about half, not replaced it completely as the typical solar company claims. Hopefully in the sunnier months the extra energy output beyond my usage will credit me with enough to pay the difference in the darker months and I'll break even on them from a "cost replacement" basis.
The only time solar panels make any sense is if you live in a desert where there's sunlight 16 hours a day. In Vermont (and pretty much anywhere in New England, for that matter), this plan is literally backwards.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Ken's reaction @2:40 had me laughing out loud
George at 3:42 was pretty good too 😂
True! Hysterical! See Dave would have said.. "Don't be stupid !"
There's also a thing called night when the panels don't work. All you are doing is trading an electric bill for a solar payment for 25 or 30 years. Pay it off just in time to replace them. And geez, he's got heat pumps in VT and his heating bill is $300-400 per month. He must have his house set at 80°.
These two should be reported to the WEF! How DARE they advise counter to the save the planet narrative!
I really wish you had actually listened to what the caller was saying. The amount he’d be paying on the loan is $270/mo and the electricity is free. The $300/mo is what he’s currently paying. That means an immediate savings of $30/mo (albeit with the added risk of having a loan out) and $300/mo (or probably more) as time goes on. This is actually a smart decision for him to make, if he’s good with his money. If he had a used Nissan Leaf he wouldn’t have to worry about the huge car payments either.
Buying solar panels from CEOs flying jets around the world.
I’ll never understand people paying money to save money. It’s no different with paying tons for a car because it gets better gas mileage.
Maybe it’s not about money,maybe it’s about the environment
Rationalizing getting into debt for a whole house solar system is like listening to a broke guy explain buying a Tesla.
Not at all, you anti solar/electric car people are funny. Solar panels generate electricity, Tesla vehicles use electricity, you are comparing apples to oranges.
@@godfathaofyo genuine question / not being confrontational: what’s your take on the embodied fossil fuel energy that goes into the production of solar panels, a consumption which is never offset by the energy harvested by the panels, and the panels ultimately becoming landfill - notwithstanding that being the scenario also shared by the electric car batteries? It sounds like one unsustainable approach being swapped out for another one. I’m undecided myself.
Go to Home Depot and put a Nest computer on your thermostat, it costs $150 and will save you thousands of dollars.
Thank you for this conversation because I've been wondering if I should get solar and you just quashed that idea. Thanks!
You definitely should ESPECIALLY if you’re able to do it yourself. DIY is about 1/2 - 1/3rd the price of the exact same setup, but installed by a solar company.
Not to mention, what wasn’t factored into the “ROI” calculation in the vid, is the increase in cost of electricity which seems to go up every other year at this point
Pleases don't get solar, you will regret it when you receive you monthly bill. All solar companies are thief.
This had nothing to do wit solar being bad or good. Wit him having a debt and only $1000 saved he’s grasping for straws while drowning. If he paid off that debt and save more he wouldn’t even feel that $30 he could be saving by going solar.
“You tryin’ to out do me?” 😂
Lol George coming through with the Bruno mars reference. 😂
37k for solar, just to save three sixty a year?
It's not worth it.
But also the price of power will only go up.
No. He would be paying 270 toward the solar loan. Roi would be much much faster
Problem is most get loans for this so they jack the price up...another example of loans making things more expensive for people. Most only look at monthly payment cost not total cash price.
Also have to take in consideration the utility payback. Some states offer nothing while others the utility will pay you the excess.
Nor will he stay in this house long enough, most people change jobs and houses so often it's crazy.
How does somebody who has that kind of salary make such a stupid decision? I feel like I’m vastly underpaid because I wouldn’t even think about making such a decision
Does it seem stupid because you trust George's math? Would you think to check it?
Since when is intelligence tied to income? If you are so intelligent try to figure out how to make more money rather than criticize someone else. If you are financially responsible/irresponsible when poor, you will be the same when rich.
@@dec1slh money is more about who you know vs what you know and id say its more grit rather then pure intelligence. thats why i know a lot of intelligent ppl that are like middle class only
@maximustrolleus9860 not true in all cases, but I get it, people tie their opinions to their experiences.
@@dec1slh whats not true? Most billionaires came from family connections. Theres a recent video that showed how every actor is basically a nepo baby. At this point ppl dont even deny it and say that life isn’t supposed to be fair. Well thats the point im making. Other factors besides intelligence determine success in life. You need grit, hard work, luck and connections. You need all these factors.
I had to convince my good friend not to go through with getting panels. It's a fad and all his neighbors were doing it. Absolutely doesn't make sense in savings lol, they sucker people in so badly 😂
I was raised with this question: “If your friends jump off the roof, are you going to jump off the roof, too?”
Analyzing for myself instead of doing what everyone else is doing has served me well.
Unless they are doing it for there kids who inherit the land or home and then they won’t have to pay for anything 😁😉
Are you taking into account that you will have to pay for electricity for the rest of your life, and that it will cost more in the future? Im sure there are bad deals out there, but that’s not exclusive to solar panels or electric cars.
@@OBI-KONOBI-ISRAEL The solar panels will disintegrate by the time the kids inherit the house, and the system will be obsolete.
@@genxx2724 gotcha I guess that makes sense.
I liked my mortgage company until they offered a HELOC ......
As soon as my mortgage was paid off, they started sending ads
I really enjoyed watching Ken suffering through this call!
That head shake, and head in hand 😂
He was getting snarky 😄
The panels will need to be replaced when he's done with the payments....that's by design!
I'd check into it and be 100% sure that you can still back out of it
I'm feeling the "lifestyle creep" hard these days... I should be debt free by now but taking my time. At least I rejected the solar people until I have the CASH
The average time a person owns a home is about 13 years. Most people will never see a return on investment. I looked into solar for my previous house but I ended up spending a few thousand to insulate better and seal it up. I will likely do the same with my current home. Also about 50 percent of houses heat with natural gas. You can't cut that without changing the furnace and water heater to electric too.
Did George sneak in a a Bruno Mars lyric from that 24k song at the end? Lol
Did George just quote a Bruno Mars song at the end? 😂😂
From one HVAC guy to another, you make us look bad here brother. Dear lord.
One thing rarely discussed with the solar "deals" is maintenance and replacement costs.
Nonsense. What maintenance or replacement costs? I've had panel for years and never touched them. You don't need to replace them ever. they just lose out put over the years. maybe 10-20% after 20 years. But never lease panels just buy them.
Don't forget the maintenance costs for the solar. Especially when you need to do roof repair
Solar is an excellent idea. Forget ROI; you will never regret it in the days to come.
They didn’t mention the alternative of getting a solar generator as backup for when power goes out. That makes much more sense and is much cheaper.
Thank you, George. Your calculations were enlightening.
His calculations were incorrect.
@@genxx2724 Yep, gotta love the confidently wrong condescension in this one.
He was wildly off by a factor of ten.
Geez! Solar sucks long term. The diminishing returns on the panels make them less viable than small household wind turbines within a decade.
When they become damaged they are difficult to dispose of cleanly and you are still paying for them like a mortgage.
And add to the fact that if he ever sells the property, the buyer of the home would need to qualify for the additional loan on the solar panels...
He would have to give it away.
Sounds like the people that spends 40 k EV cars to safe on gas 😂😂😂
Solar makes sense for some people in certain areas, it’s very important to do all your research beforehand. I also don’t believe it makes sense unless you also install a battery pack for your house. Make sure to do your research!!!
Storage gets into much more expense. People do it off grid but for the most part, the idea is to sell power back to the grid and get as close to zeroing out your electric bill as possible.
@@kenofken9458 selling it back may bw good for you but not the environment. Grid pull back & ramp ups negates the solar
@@greggpurviance7252 I've never heard such a thing. Demand goes up on the grid, demand goes down. What matters for the environment is the generation source.
@@kenofken9458 actually not. Grid planning is something most don't consider. Draw is one variable add another it makes grid balancing much more difficult.
Does work well for off grid if storage is enough. Boats, RV, Tiny House
@@greggpurviance7252 It's the grid. It's never going to be static. Solar also produces peak power at the same time of day and often season as peak demand.
Solar will end up being a burden to all these people, unless they got it because they're amish or in the wilderness
How fitting , an add for solar roofs and how they finance
36000 loan /3600 per year is 10 years. After this he gets free energy, or at least cheaper energy. The boys here are wrong.
Caller said home equity loan and George jumped to HELOC. Not the same thing.
This is so funny 😂
Never a HELOC. NEVER
Making 200k a year is not stupid
Well said ❤
Why do people always try to justify solar with saying they will save money by taking out a huge loan
Bruno Mars reference? Dude might give Dr. John a run for his money in jukebox battle.
I have solar on my deck that I use to charge my solar power banks. No permits or high pressure salesmen that get huge commission. I use the power banks in areas in my house that I don't have wiring.
I don't understand how people are going through so much electricity. I got a 40x60 pole barn with a bunch of shop equipment welders air compress and my bill is only 100-130 a month.
Heating with electricity. Even a heat pump uses a lot of power in a real winter.
I would like solar panels but how can you afford to place them without taking out a loan or paying a lease fee, idk. My electric bill is crazy in NY, $300 and I have everything plugged out (except frigid, stove, and internet). The gas company in upstate is a rip off, there are class action suits against them but it's not stopping the outrageous bills.
I live in a 1500sqft condo. My electric bill is around $50/mo. or less and my heating gas bill is lower so a solar system isn’t necessary.
But I do have a two 2k watt portable solar generators and four 175watt panels for backup in case power goes out for a long period of time.
Have two balconies and awning to place the panels so no one will see them.
Solar loans make sense if you plan on staying in the home.
Solar panels in Vermont? Not a lot of sunlight and a lot of snow to sweep off of them.
Something is wrong with this. With Solar panels typically you should be 100% of your power bill.
I would be interested to see what the inflation rate for electricity is where he lives. I also didn't hear anything about time of use, what kind of offset his system has, or if he has plans to leave this home to family later on or get an EV instead of gas. I won't argue that solar may not always be the right choice but honestly with everything else involved this guy really might get his money back in 15-20 years.
I will admit that is still a long time, but is this a multi-generational home and how reliable is the grid there?
Where he lives there’s no time of use. Assuming the total cost of the solar system cash is $37,000 and the net system cost is $25,900 after the tax credit with a $300 a month average it will take him 7.2 years to break even. That’s not counting that he can qualify for SRECS (Depending on the utility) that will help even more getting a faster ROI. Of course there’s a connection fee to the grid but the highest in his states is $12 a month.
Financially, yeah, sometimes it doesn't make sense. But in terms of saving our environment. . . it's a choice that is substantially less damaging in the long term than oil, natural gas, and coal (all used to some extent in Vermont).
It's not "saving the environment". Check out what has to be harvested from the Earth to contruct these panels. It's not Earth friendly.
my 32-year-old niece pays $850 a month for car payments. This is ridiculous.
I cannot go without liking this. Great comments George amd Ken