The truth about EVs and fire risk in our cities | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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On a lighter note Here in the UK Ferrybridge motorway services have just installed an EV charging station. Only problem is the power supply is insufficient to power it so they are bringing in diesel generators to power it.
😂😂😂
🤣😂
Ferrybridge.......right next to where the big power station used to be
Out of mile range EV they send a diesel powered recovery vehicle. EV owners may have to carry a fueled-up Honda electricity generator in the trunk.
Ah,yes … but the EV is still Zero Emission 🙄
Given the lengths people went to in the UK to investigate inappropriate cladding of high-rise buildings, after a catastrophic fire, I am dreading the first major EV fire in a town/city, especially, like the cladding, people knew it was wrong but kept quiet and people died. Thank you for highlighting this once again.
didn't that official report throw the fire fighters under the bus?
@@mistahsusan2650 They blamed firefighters because they told people to stay in their flats which is normal procedure as the sprinkler system etc will deal with the fire. Problem was, they had no idea that the stuff they were dealing with should never have been used as it was. Factory that supplied the cladding knew exactly what they were selling.
Thank you for applying the blowtorch of accurate, entertaining presentation to this looming catastrophe.
Imagine the regs after its a tower of rich ass holes that turn into air pollution!
@@wendylindley9985firefighters can’t be expected to make up rules on the fly during a fire. They have to strictly follow rules that have been worked out over many decades. These are completely different ways of operating.
They did see the fire going quickly up the side of the building. But not WHY that was happening. Nor did they have the time to rethink all their rules.
It was really the council’s fault when they decided against installing sprinklers when that building was renovated. They chose form over function. And people died.
Somebody said if everybody had let their bathtubs overflow, that would have put out the fire. I wonder how true that is.
So this is super interesting. A ferry operator in Norway has recently banned EV vehicles from using the service. Reading between the lines, there is a HUGE question over insurance/reinsurance coverage whilst working on/handling/transporting EV's due to the fairly unique fire risk vs other vehicles. I sense that in the next 3-6 months there will be an increasing number of operators of ships/tunnels/underground carparks etc etc who are going to cite the inability to obtain competitive insurance cover as a reason to no longer allow EV vehicles.
Increasing number of ferry operators in Scandinavia are going electric themselves. Look it up on internet. What do you expect?
@@ampm9771 you mean the ferries themselves are powered by pure electric? Thst can only be viable in a minority of (short) services, and the insurance implications are totally different (a single system on a well maintained ferry, vs unlimited types of EV of varied maintenance/damage)
@@asdreww For now it's regional (short distance) ferries, long range ferries in the near future. It's true that the electrical systems of vessels are more robust by design, but that does not exclude the chance of arc flash, fire...etc Batteries are notorious things to store regardless of how well they are maintained and stored in a less than perfect environment.
Yeah you're probably right, insurance will be the main driver of this. Politicians, virtue signalling corporations and EV fans can all afford to live in fantasy land, but insurance companies are absolutely forced to live in the real world because their bottom line in directly effected by stuff going pear shaped.
Yeah, I also hear that there have been apartment complexes with underground parking banning EVs being parked in the underground parking.
I work in a factory where we build prototype EV's as well as other vehicles. We have a drill where if there is a fire, a colleague gets the big (diesel) fork lift truck (which is permanently parked on standby) and drags the vehicle out of the building as quick as he can, they have the whole proceedure down to 4 minutes 30 seconds, they also have a skip full of sand outside in case individual battery units go up.
I've been looking for a reason to get a forklift for home applications...
A diesel engine to the rescue then?
Should hv had a battery operated fork lift for a confidence building..😊
I am not a born Australian, but guys like John Cadogan makes me super proud of being Australian now. There is another RUclips influencer who refer to John in an extremely positive way, and I won't be amazed if the Americans haven't discovered this guy. I'm sure that John's well researched clips must have gained him a lot of respect in many circles all over the world. (He also acnyowelege that he is not right all the time, and that makes him even greater). Cadogan for Prime Minister, say I.
I am not a born Australian, but guys like John Cardogan make me super proud to be a boomer and a plugger. Old guys rule !!
Do they allow Ming Molls to be in residence at Kirribilli House?
Annnd boom. There it is.
Climate alarmism with zero proof.
Only a plethora of scientists intent upon maintaining their grants so toeing the deranged line that co2 is so effing dangerous as to merit removal from our atmosphere, while enriching a few tools sitting at the top of the lie.
Indeed, John is my favourite guy on RUclips, we need more like him in the world - A True Canceller of Woke. I must admit that I went off him for a while when he started to use CRAP CRAP CRAP vertical video on here, I think that he must have just been having a bad hair day at that time, or maybe suffering a senior moment. It upsets me somewhat that I missed some of his stuff because I simply downvote and skip anything on here that is in vertical. "Say no to vertical video and BAN IT from RUclips".
But....but.....The Electric Viking !!!
Meanwhile, in Brisbane, Council is building a 60 bay bus depot replete with 60 chargers to recharge every bus overnight. Each bus has two articulation points and are capable of carrying 170 passengers. I am thankful I live 50ks from the depot for when the entire fleet goes up one night due to a single cell breakdown in one bus.
Still when it burns the whole place to the ground they can make he area into parkland. And move the depot out next to a hazmat site.
..And taxpayers money, as well !
@@donaldstewart444it makes a good excuse to go back to diesel
lunacy
Sounds like a terrorist wetdream.
Perhaps it would be better to disperse the busses for the night, rather than keeping them together like cans of fuel surrounded by electronics.
I recently worked at a recycling centre. One small Li-Ion battery got crushed in a waste compactor. It was throwing out big flames and caused a massive fire in the waste container. The site was shut for 1/2 a day, with the Fire Brigade attending the scene.
My god
Makes you wonder what our scrap yards are going to be full of before long, I had wondered what happens when you put an EV in a car crusher
@@antiquss - they’d have to remove the Li-Ion battery first, or a large fire would occur
But do you think these idiots running the world are going to backtrack on their stupid plan? Nope. The more carnage the better.
@@antiqussThere won't be any scrap yards, just recycling centres, where cars will be taken apart bit by bit. But who will be paying for it ?.
Superb video. I find the biggest problem with EV evangelists (Teslastans are the worst) is their total inability to admit that while EVs come with some advantages, they also come with problems.
Like everything else in the world.
Tesla drivers and Audi drivers are the same thing.
I love finding one behind my old diesel van. The look on their pompous faces as I hold it in 2nd gear and allow the revs to climb. The turbo spools up and blows the soot out of the exhaust
I am an owner of an ICE car and probably be the same for the next 5-7 years. But for sure, my next car will be an EV.
A lot of lies in the media, no wonder why the USA is going down. Tesla is burning daily...or not? I bet your (and all other commentators here) new car, 10 years from now, will be electric...
PS: I know believers cannot accept anything outside their beliefs. But I need to mention these are transitional cars and the battery technology is developing daily (where LFP from BYD is the best for safety and not burning even penetrated), your "comments" just show how limited in understanding you all are...
@@costiqueR So buy one now!
True, but iCE car fans fail to understand that EVs catch fire around 50 times less often than ICE cars. Those too burn down houses and Bus depots.
Another problem is the stereotyping and strawmanning of EV owners; that they're all these arrogant, self righteous idiots. It's weird how it has become another proxy in the culture wars.
One of our cars is an EV and it has been great in terms of how efficient it is to run. We basically get free fuel by charging with solar. We've had it for about 2 years and it has not missed a beat. I'm an enthusiast and own 2 other petrol cars, one used exclusively for track/Motorsport, so I'm not anti ICE. I know you are not necessarily doing this with your comment, but pls do not stereotype all EV owners.
EV fires might be relatively uncommon in "western" countries, at the moment, but I assure you the same is not true in China. I don't know how common it is there, but there are loads of videos on their social media channels like Bilibili and RedBook that show even the top-shelf Chinese EVs randomly bursting into flames. Oh, and their EV buses, and taxis...
I was driving through a tunnel in rush hour just yesterday and this is exactly what was on my mind. When (not if) an EV goes up it will be a miracle if everyone gets out.
I was driving through a tunnel in rush hour just yesterday and this is exactly what was on my mind. When (not if) an gas car goes up it will be a miracle if everyone gets out.
Properly designed tunnels of significant length usually have a service/emergency tunnel which doubles as the fresh air supply duct. If you get stuck in a tunnel due to a fire and cannot back out of it, give your best effort at parking your vehicle in a way that leaves room for emergency services to get through, ditch your vehicle, make your way to the nearest safe access door and follow instructions from there. Doesn't really matter what is on fire or why, still got to get out of the smoke if your car is going to be stuck there for a few hours until emergency services clear the way or get everyone else behind you to back out.
Was driving through a tunnel in rush hour just yesterday and this is exactly what was on my mind. When (not if) a gas goes up in flames it will be a miracle if everyone gets out.
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 You can put out a gasoline, diesel or other conventional fire by smothering the flames using any number of simple methods. Batteries on the other hand contain both the fuel and oxidizer, which means you cannot do anything about the fire other than attempt to contain the damage until it burns itself out. And even after the initial battery fire goes out, there is a significant risk it will spontaneously re-ignite one or more times before it can safely be disposed of.
I'd rather have to deal with a fire that can be put out with water or a fire extinguisher than a battery fire where the safest currently known option is to let it burn completely through.
@@teardowndan5364
In 2021, there were 174,000 highway vehicle fires reported in the United States which caused 650 civilian deaths. This was an increase from the previous year, when 580 civilians died from highway vehicle fires.
You can put out a gasoline, diesel or other conventional fire by smothering them by throwing people on them.
Scalextric will be the only electric car I'll ever own.
Many years ago there was a track nearby that went to race at. 3 of us there, and the operator was cleaning the track with some fluid and a squeegee mop. It burst into flames and our cars went through the ensuing fireball. Shit it was funny!
AFX!!!!!
theres so much more room to use when you include the walls and ceiling...
lol. we had about 17 sets hooked together.
Mine kept spinning off the track or burning their motors out.
@@stephenhookings1985ah, but did they catch fire?
In the UK fire brigades are advising against charging electric scooters and bikes indoors as a result of a number of horrendous fires starting in one of these "toys". They destroy more than themselves when they go pop.
John, you are absolutely right in insisting that the safety provisions for BEV are bought up to the same, or better, standards that we have for oil powered cars. That'll be an interesting engineering development.
Generally the ebikes that burn are conversions rather than pre made from factory. The reason they are more likely to catch fire is one of two reasons.
1. Poor wiring done by the person who converted the bike.
2. The quality of the battery that has been used.
But the recommendations for charging any battery (including cell phones) has always been do it while you are awake and away from any means of escape if it did catch fire.
Yes more regulation is need to make sure that there things are safe to use.
Also remember we had a EV World Rallycross Car burst into flames recently. But apparently it was the trucks fault. That was until I saw a image of the fire and the main part of the fire was coming from the two Lancia Delta replica EV Rallycross cars. The team truck wasn't even fully on fire.
Interesting to see the effect on commercial and residential building insurance when they start to work out the risk and then charge insurance rates that meet the insurance companies own risk/reward ratio, somewhat similar as to when an insurance company asks "are there any large trees within 20m of the house" this will now turn into "are there any EV's parked at the premises"
YES . We now have had 2 ships burnt. Insurance companies will be counting thier pennies & saying enough. What do you think will be next?......... Multi storey car parks?
Perhaps insurance companies are looking at the way countries like Norway are handling this situation, after all, Norway is supposed to be the poster child for EV's
That is because it steel has carbon in it, carbon burns. You cant do that with iron. I live in a steel town, learned a lot here about it. Iron needs to be heated up till it melts, then you add carbon, and a lot of other things to make steel. What you add is depending on what you want for steel. They use a BOSP, (basic oxygen steel plant) to make the steel. This injects oxygen into the molten iron/carbon mix burning the carbon (called coke).
Exactly … safety isn’t ‘written in blood’ it’s written in the ‘risk:cost ratio’ … dollars are the only thing that will drive EV safety standards.
@@richardkent9621 coke just coal, isn't it ?
I really like how at shopping centres, they have big signs indicating the EV parking spaces with charging. It makes it so much easier to know where to park - as far from them as practical. Has anyone else noticed that these EV charging parks tend to be close to the shopping centre entrances? That will be a disaster when we get one of those EV fires and the smoke wafts straight into the mall.
We have them here in Scottsdale,Az. They are placed way out in the center of the parking lot
There will not only be smoke as the flame spreads potentially spreading further and even blast particles onto the store depending how close,or it could start with an EV parked in the disabled sdea? Time will tell!!
EV's close to fire exits.... not a good idea.
And also a charging station ????? Authorities and Fireservice should check this. Crazy.
Frightening, factual, informative. This and the previous EV clips should be viewed by all politicians and community leaders.
The all-or-nothing nature of the risks are truly frightening. An EV going up in the Eurotunnel in the holiday season (summer), for example.
Holys@#t!
Yep, they won't allow LPG adapted cars in the tunnel, yet EVs are OK. Go figure.
You can reasonably escape the tunnel, or most ppl probably. A passenger ferry midseas however...
@@Wayoutthere don't forget you are on a train in the channel tunnel, that doesn't have conventional doors, the whole car deck cover slides open (iirc).
@@MattBrownbill IIRC there are sliding doors at both ends and ramps to access the second floor. The majority of the carriages have only emergency exits on the sides. Pretty standard fare. The main issue, I think, is the limited oxygen in the tunnel, especially after a fire has used it up, or the suppression system has cut in.
There has been fires in the tunnel, all lorries, but no one died. All of them were dealt with by the safety procedures. But these have all been, so far, on the goods trains with few people (yes lorry drivers are people) onboard. A passenger train on fire would be a different thing entirely.
John's words have penetrated the UK airwaves and are well received. Keep up the good work John.
Geof buys cars , 😅
I posted a link on GBC earlier the best
Thousands of us have been saying this for years 😂
All anti-EV crap is well received, Daily Mail have been reduced to posting pictures of flooded diesel cars and claiming it's an EV problem.
@@mikebreen2890 ya, its hip to spread EV fud. Media is so toxic.
Hi John,
Keep up the narrative on the dangers of EV’s. I spent my formative youth working in an oil refinery and the good folks there spent a goodly amount of time educating us plebs on the dangers of hydrocarbon fires and other such dangers in an oil refinery.
Very little stuff is being promoted by the powers to be on the dangers of EVs.
One possible reason….. maybe the Wally’s running the show don’t or cannot stomach any negative press about their darling EV mantra.
Totally on point there mate.
Just wait until a major fire happens as John surmised to, transport bosses in Auckland city are getting a battery ferry constructed for the future use on Auckland harbour, I certainly hope a fire doesn't come to pass, yet it will unfortunately take something major for many people to wake up
It's important without a doubt. I note that Tesla have produced documentation for first responders. I do not know how effective these processes are but they have engaged. I have not seen responses.
you think the battery is going to be stopped? clearly you don't right?
....the UK Gov has already provided guidance on shipment of EVs...the Institute of Civil Engineers produced guidance only last month on EVs and car parks.
I work at a dealership & we had a firey come & do a training exercise yesterday. He was telling us that in Europe they have trucks with a huge bucket of water so that if an EV goes up they pickup the car & dump it in the water for 6 weeks & they have reignited after a month out of the water. He went on to say that they will burn through concrete & toxins will totally pollute a building so dealerships will likely need to pull down & redesign buildings to accomodate them..... when the technology is developed.
Seen a video where they dumped a truck load of sand on the car to smother the fire
I totally agree with you. I would not have an ev charging anywhere near my house. I think the ship fire will be a huge wakeup call to the public! I do not believe they are a true and viable alternative to petrol and diesel cars. They cost way too much to produce the batteries alone, they are so heavy the tear through tyres, brakes and road surface. So - I am now paying for the tax free EV's to travel on the same road as me while they pay nothing. And I suppose the eco-warriors have politely forgotten about the tar and other oil products needed to produce road surfaces, tyres and brake pads?
The "eco-warriors" stopped giving actual shits about the environment long ago. "Green" is now just a buzzword to get you to give them more money while they destroy the world.
"Fascism is the merger of corporate and state power."- Benito Mussolini.
Parked cars and toxic fumes are not good, but there is much worse. When car accidents happen on the road and the accidents damage the batteries and turns them into blow torches with people alive and conscious and trapped inside in the car... That's a whole new level of terrifying.
I dread a motorway pileup with these vehicles
But do they??
Tesla is often being sued by families of deceased relatives who couldn't get out of their Teslas, because the doors jammed when the Tesla crashed (on autopilot) and their loved ones were burned alive.
@@CynicalBastard511thats just horrendous. Those poor people.
With electric door controls too.
I was looking to get an electric car as my next vehicle, but a rather odd thing happened that has put me off the idea. I have just had a quote for my house/contents insurance, and in the quote the insurance company asked me if there has been any changes since my last renewal, adding the question. "Is there an electric vehicle kept on the property, and if yes, is the vehicle garaged, and is it charged on the property?" As I see it, there is only one reason for this inquiry, that being, if I had (and particularly if it was charged on the property), my premium would be going up
Your premium is greater if you live in an attached house because the insurance would have to pay if your fire burnt the next-door house down as well as your own. Just imagine how much the premium would be if you had a EV fire that was capable of spreading to lots of houses.
you sir,,are brainwashed, by your yupi mates.. anything green, is bad,, non re cycleable.. it costs more than what we have now.. look up lpg for vehicles,, or sodium reactors to power the planet,,free,safe, no waste.. unlike nuclear... im a 65 yr old dumb ausie,,but,,i know more than you..eh.. LPG PUMPS OUT OXYGEN, CANT GET BETTER THAN THAT. i have a 3t ford bronco, on lpg only, for the past 14 yrs ive owned it & before.. it has 12.1 compression, as gas needs high comp, & timing changes,,thats it.. goes like a cut cat. gets 360 ks to 90 lt..gas is a waste product, the fuel co,s sell it for 5c lt. or burn it off..sodium reactors were banned in 1954, as they didnt produce weapons grade material,,ie,, NUCLEAR BOMBS.
I tick yes on this question for fun, and got ": sorry we cannot insure your premises at this time":
California and Oregon home and condo owners are required to carry homeowners liability insurance coverage for electric vehicle charging stations in their homes. It’s advised that EV owners who charge at home speak with their insurers to be sure they have the coverage they need. Standard homeowners insurance policy does not include coverage relating to vehicles and their associated equipment.
@@knowname7289 That's strange. We have a EV which is charged on the property ( with a granny charger) and out insurance premiums were completely unaffected and on top of that our finance company gave us a reduced interest rate for having an EV and solar. I'd go to a different insurer if I were you.
Great information. Unfortunately, unless enough number of general public got killed/permanently injured, or one politician got the shit in EV fire, nothing will happen. The one who really should care (politicians) do not give a shit and they have no will to learn.
🎯
Despite many claims and investigations, this is actually the opposite of what's happening. EVs are safer and cleaner on all fronts.
It’s important to note that there isn’t a “climate emergency”. The amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is incredibly small, 325 parts per million. Optimal plant growth occurs at 600 parts per million, hence why people sometimes pump CO2 into greenhouses. If we doubled the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere then life would flourish
As a firefighter we talk about the danger of this happening in undercover car parks all the time.
It's hard enough to deal with a regular car fire in a carpark. already
You need a video of how they put them out. Dig a hole, drop car in, fill with water to smother flames, leave for a month. Also the amount of times they reignite after people think the fire has gone out. Some times it's days and weeks later.
On the gas axe thing: a fun trick to do is when the piece you're cutting is REALLY hot you can turn the acetylene off completely and cut through using just oxygen and the heat released from the burning steel continues the cut.
That sounds absolutely awesome. I'd like to see that.
@@Rick_Yatesthat’s called winning at life 😂
And if you are going to cut the top of a oil drum make sure the lid has been removed and the drum cleaned.I seen what happens if this is not carried out as the drum fell through the roof of our workshop.
Burning through steel underwater using a mini thermic lance (broco rods), uses the same phenomenon.
It's actually rapidly Oxidising the steel. Not "cutting" it
Speaking with my former fire science hat on - well said Sir. The Chinesium scooter and bike and golf buggy batteries fires are a major concern.
Why did you single out Chinese products?
The ev fires I have seen have been Tesla's, Volkswagens, Nissans etc.
I have seen no evidence for higher percentages of fires from Chinese car makers.
Chinese have a historical reputation for making cheap dodgy things in general. Maybe it's been changing in recent times but it'll take a while for that reputation to go away. That's my guess.
@@fryertuck6496google BYD fires in China. It’s out of control.
@@fryertuck6496you haven't seen any Tesla fires except on social media. Half of these were not Teslas (mysterious reporting errors), a few got set on fire (like that last one where the car actually recorded the arsonist) and a number were caused by violent accidents. But no, YOU, didn't see a Tesla fire. I on the other hand, see an ICE car burn down about once a year (I get around).
@@fryertuck6496how hard did you look?
I visited a dealership who specialises in EV vehicles, saw one I like and sat down with a sales rep to discuss the benefits of EV ownership. On the face of it, it is not too bad, but costly upfront. The deal kicker came when I learned how insanely environmentally damaging it is to produce these vehicles and their batteries, how prone they are to events such as power outages and inability to even find a charging station outside cities and larger towns, and the cost of decommissioning and disposing of these vehicles, especially when taking into account depreciation and out of warranty fixes. What sent me running out the door is when the sales rep suggested the EV be parked outside on the driveway or street, in the event of a combustion incident that would leave the vehicle immobile in a garage or carpark, especially underground, with other vehicles. Those pushing the EV scam are in the service of the globalists, and those pushing the increasingly obvious climate change myth. Do not buy into this theatre of saving the world from it boiling or killing us when the oceans rise to the top of everest. Laugh in their faces, do not buy EV vehicles and look forward to the pole reversal and coming ice age.
One problem, the quoted Fremantle Highway ferry fire now appears to have not been caused by an EV. "While the fire is still officially listed as under investigation, the trade Automobilwoche contends the preliminary survey and report say apparently the fire was not caused by electric cars"
I have witnessed regular car fires and even participated in dousing out one.
I would never ever come near a battery fire. The amount of chemicals that could kill you is amazing.
The only difference is that the chances of you witnessing an EV battery fire are very low. ICE car fires are actually quite common in contrast.
@@MattCasters Ev fires are not common. Yet. ICE fires are, but are much less dangerous.
@MattCasters how old is the oldest EV on the streets? How well do people treat their sub $5000 beater ICE? Are your stats controlling for the age of the vehicle? BYD EVs in China have already surpassed ICE vehicles in terms of frequency of catching fires.
I watch plenty of motorsports. When ICE vehicle catches file, a track marshal with a handheld fire extinguisher puts it out quickly. When an EV crashes, and the danger light on the dash is on, the whole session is red flagged.
@@MattCastersever consider the differential ration on the road?
Didn't think so.
Damn, yt prevents me from editing my comment..
Ratio
As a career electronics/electrical guy I am fond of the progress that has been made with the EV industry and I see they will play some part in our future. As a safety and emergency response manager and, a former mariner, I completely agree with your stance on the safety aspect of the battery technology. This indeed has become a sacred cow that no one in the public eye would dare to suggest it is unsafe; but like you mention with gasoline, this new tech is extremely dangerous and needs to have appropriate safeguards in all aspects of its implementation. Well said John...
There she goes blastoff.
Always laugh at boat owners that have replaced their ICE diesel engines, with an electric motor and batteries. One moored nearby has🤨 TWO EV battery packs from wrecked cars.
Future is hydrogen, clean diesel and petrol. EV isn't the future, that's why Japan is holding off of EV fever.
OR parked at WINDSOR CASTLE destroying part or all? Or my house big F up who to sue
Well as you, as a "former Mariner", knows, one of, if not the biggest fear on a ship, is a fire.
Years ago i was into RC aircraft, lipos were just coming out, the mile long paper that came with the batteries (which i did read) reminded me of drug companies advertisements, theyre great, awesome fix all your problems, with tons of side effects. Dont get too hot, dont charge with the wrong charger, dont overcharge dont undercharge, dont puncture, dont look at it wrong, or too long, dont this , or that. Keep them in a fireproof bag, but theyre light and very powerful. Like owning a pet cobra, i suppose, much restpect.
not too long ago I was at an airsoft event, some kid had got himself a secondhand M4 with a new battery. First thing any of us knew of anything wrong was when he screamed - the battery had self-ignited in the rear stock compartment and burned clean through it, shooting yellow and bright blue flames through the butt and into his shoulder. There was no warning. Also, it turned out that he hadn't even connected the battery to the rifles motor circuit. The only thing he could say for certain was that he'd put the battery on a standard charger overnight(!) and it felt tight going into the compartment.
I'm happy to have stuck with nitro fuel for my helicopters
I've got a traxxas xrt and i bought a hobbywing max 6 esc for it but i didn't adjust the low voltage protection on it for the Lipo batteries so i'd ruined 2x traxxas 4cell 6700mah batteries after my first go. 300quids worth of batteries ruined so i tried charging one back up but one of the cells had charged up to twice the voltage i left it on charge and forgot about it then remembered and ran outside to turn it off. This was being charged in the garden just incase of a fire so looking at the battery it had swelled up so i threw it but as i stood in the garage i could see it moving and hissing. I went to get a watering can as i went past i looked at it and then it exploded and my god that was some power but it looked like it was over so i got some water came back and then it erupted into a constant flame thrower i've never been so scared in all my life but the power of a 4cell battery was unreal.
@@BlokeOnAMotorbikeTight…so it was swollen from pressure?
@@davejohnson3474 Dumping water on a lipo or dumping it INTO water is THE BIGGEST MISTAKE you will make only ONCE in your lifetime, if you survive it or not.....
NEVEREVEREVEREVER combine lipos and water!
The question is whether or not the public is interested in paying for the infrastructure needed to deal with EV fires. It's going to be a massive bill.
Yup, totally ok with it. Not scared by the FUD.
Evfiresafe is your friend
“EV’s are good, until they catch on fire.” Good line.
Even if the fire wasn't caused by one of the EVs, the EVs made it a lot worse.
Exactly. Fossil cars are the most likely initial cause of the fire (just going by the numbers), so perhaps we need to stop transporting fossil cars with EVs until we can get to the bottom of this and the results of the investigation are in. In general, new EVs shipped with low state of charge do not suddenly go into thermal runaway.
@@nettlesoup You're missing the point, and you're just speculating on the cause.
The point is the cause is irrelevant. There could be lots of possible causes. Maybe some idiot lit up a cigarette. Maybe some piece of equipment on the ship caught fire. It's besides the point.
An EV fire like this where the lithium batteries light up, once it's started, you *can't* stop it. That's the issue.
Even if an ICE car is 10 or 100 times more likely to light up, at least it's actually possible to stop the fire, which means you don't just lose the entire ship.
@@Knowbody42 I wasn't speculating on the cause, I was pointing out the most likely cause. This is not unusual given that investigative reports of this nature can take years to complete.
If this is such an issue now, why hasn't anyone raised this over the past 11+ years that Tesla (and others) have been successfully shipping boatfulls of EVs free of battery fires?
Good engineering and safety controls should be in place for all shipments. We leave laptops and mobile phones in our homes, often in enclosed spaces in bags. Perfect environment for a bad cell to get hot enough for thermal runaway to start.
And yet it's not an issue unless the batteries have a design or production flaw, such as with the Samsung phones a few years ago. Even then they needed a good bending or bashing to cause the sort circuit.
Similarly for the Bolt EVs. I think John even included footage in this very video of a garage on fire due to a Bolt.
This is all being blown out of the water while we have zero facts to work on. We've seen thousands of ships successfully transport millions of "terrifying" large batteries in EVs. And only two examples of catastrophic failure, both as a matter of record containing a mixture of EVs and fossil cars.
It's two too many in my book, especially given we have yet to discover anything about the first ship that sunk and (conveniently) probably never will. I agree with John that we need to engineer this properly but the blanket assumption that all EVs being shipped are an uninsurable liability has more than the faintest whiff of fossil fuel fearmongering. There is a full blown war on EVs going on now and this is just more ammo on top of the myths, hearsay and other BS.
This is an engineering problem that has rare but dangerous repercussions if best practices are not followed. If other EV manufacturers don't have the luxury of controlling their own battery manufacturing and being able to charter their own ship with only BEVs on board, I guess that puts them at a disadvantage and they'll have to pay extra to charter a smaller ship. If they don't do that and are happy ride sharing with other non-EV vehicles then they'll need to prove their safety credentials and implement proper checks before cars are loaded.
@@nettlesoup You were speculating on the cause. And missing the point.
You can't solve the issue by assuming you've controlled for the causes. *When, not if* another fire happens, you need the ability to deal with it without letting it destroy an entire ship.
exactly,climate change caused by electric cars nice going
Many owners of caravans and motor homes are falling over themselves rushing to fit Lithium batteries to these vehicles!
Amazingly the majority of those batteries are fitted under beds where there is plenty of space.
Adds a whole new meaning to that Midnight Oil song “Beds are Burning”.
LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron phosphate) batteries used to power caravans are different in chemistry to Lithium -ion batteries.
LiFePO4 is a less toxic material has excellent thermal and chemical stability, stays cooler in higher temperatures and has a lot lower risk of thermal runaway.
A properly installed LiFePO4 is no less safe than a lead acid battery.
Worse still people are getting redundant old batteries from crashed EV's put in as storage batteries for solar and wind energy. I wouldn't feel safe having a ticking time bomb in my house.
Just imagine high rise appartments... full of EVs in the garage.... disaster waiting to happen.
In june a electric bike shop caught fire in new york and the fire killed 4 people in the floors above.
@@paulh6395 this is going to end badly.
What about mobile phones being charged in every bedroom?
@@peejayem4700 well its not a massive tank of 100s of batteries all together is it now smarty guy?
One particular model of non-EV burnt down multi-storey car parks Stravanger airport and shopping center in Douglas, Cork.
Just imagine how much more difficult an EV fire would be to control.
Thank you for sharing your extreme views
When you look at the numbers. Battery fire is low and you did cover that well. You are not the only engineer in australia 🇦🇺. I look at all the comments and must agree you like myself and many on here are very qualified and definitely not a scatter brain.
In one of the reports I am looking at I am sure most of the engineers in here including yourself have seen it. They are saying it was sabotage. Trying to tarnish the EV market because a legacy automaker giant can not compete and have decided not make EV anymore.
We are professionals and we don’t name or shame anyone but I know that you know who.
Look going extreme is good and healthy but not everyone can handle it. . . . Just saying.
Now that you scared the hell out the majority of your captivated fans. Tell them EV is just as safe as any other car. The engineers that designed the EV can do better on safety.
Keep up the good work
wow
Makes me wonder about underground shopping centre car parks. If/when the % of EVs gets over 30 or 40, a single fire would spread across the car park and compromise the structural integrity of the building above it. That would be awkward.
Very
Hey Darth, if you check out a couple videos ago, John covered that in the 2nd half in the later video about the ship & EV fire also for some more issues from the scenario for The underground car parks etc.
sounds fun
Your evidence for this claim is?
I can envision parking towers having signs in the future saying no EV vehicles allowed because their (parking towers) insurance won’t cover a multi million dollar insurance claim and because the owners of these parking lots won’t have the money to upgrade them or pull them down and build again with new building codes in place so it’s cheaper just to put up a sign kind of like how my council fixes pot holes, just reduce the speed limit and put up signs of a hazard.
Here in the UK the principle of "See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil" is paramount. As you say it's not a matter of 'if' it's just 'when'.
Well thought out and orated John. Could not agree with you more. I have been looking for the narrative around this problem for sometime and I think you have hit the nail on the head, so to speak. Well done.
I imagine the same arguments were made a century ago with the replacement of horse with vehicles that carried tanks of flammable petrol.
Think of the fireball DISASTER compared to loads of horse poop.
But you know what? We learned to live with the risks and to minimize them, because the benefits were so overwhelming.
Same today with EVs.
@@mafarmerga what you comparing is a total ridiculous comparisson dont speak bs
@@mafarmerga I would not want an EV catching fire in my driveway. Would you? Can’t maker an omelette without cracking a few eggs? Well, I disagree with that.
EVs have many advantages over ICE of which I support, but honestly this problem needs to be fixed. So, I don’t wonder about this for a second, because its not petrol. I have seen so many vids of people standing around as an EV burns itself out and no one seems to suggest they move upwind while they film. It’s just not a thing because no one is informed, which is cruel IMO. Respectful debate around this would help but seemingly in short supply.
To be fair, we do not know yet if it was an EV that started this but its not beyond a reasonable assumption. Even if an EV was not the primary source, just being in proximity and catching fire is a potential disaster. LFP batteries are less likely to catch than NMC or so I am advised, and solid state batteries point the way to less risk once again. However these initiatives are slow to market and some may remain stillborn, highlighting some of the problems with disruptive technologies. There should be no catch up with this issue. Ignoring the problem(s) and promoting only the advantages to mankind is no solution either. Thats the usual HS that comes out of the mouths of the virtue signalling great and good.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but now that we know the potential we should be demanding better regulation around this issue. We are better than this. Or are we?
Imagine a high rise building with an underground car park full of EVs going up , these things are going to be the disasters of the future.
As for adding correct safety precautions , no one will want to pay for that ,because it will cost a fortune.
A few years ago there was a fire in a parking house at an airport close to where i live in Norway. 420 cars was burned out and among them several EV's. First the news said the fire started due to a fire in an EV. Later they noticed a camera had filmed start of the fire and it was an Opel Zafira diesel. the investigation also noticed that no EV batteries had burned. The chief of the fire department said the numbers of EV's had reduced the fire since they did not have any burning fuel. Fires in gas and diesel cars are way more frequent than in EV's. 20% of the cars in Norway are EV's now and we have less fires in cars than we use to have.
Great content John. I am afraid that little will happen and this issues will be downplayed by politicians, carmakers and EV enthusiasts. Unfortunately we do not know if anyone is looking into the root cause of each event to be able to master the technology. What should be improved in the battery, in the car's power management, in the chargers. If this continues to happen even more frequently the EV's will end up banned rather than ICE's.
@@vasil7410You seem to have missed the point. Regardless of the source to the fire,. The presence of the batteries made the situation worse.
Guess what the biggest manufacturers don't use that technology cheaper the better for capitalism guess what the worst thing for a batter. Cheap out on all the safety components none of that is well-regulated Or UL certified@@vasil7410
@@vasil7410 LFP batteries, as they use liquid electrolytes, always have risks for fires. There used to be a notion that LFP batteries are always safe and do not explode. However, after series of fires reported from EVs powered by LFP batteries, such notion has subsided
LFP batteries are not exempt from thermal runaway as they share the same structure as lithium-ion batteries. Anodes and cathodes are located on each side with separators in the middle, and both kinds of batteries are filled with a flammable electrolyte solution.
If you put a battery in a fire then it will be exactly the same problem weather a fault in the battery started it or the battery was heated to the point of thermal runaway.
What makes EV batteries dangerous is the highly concentrated energy stored in such a tight package(270wh/kg). The only way to make batteries safer is to make them ten times bigger so they can be thermally and chemically regulated. But that would make them heavier and bulkier. The power to weight ratio of lithium batteries is the only thing that makes an electric vehicle viable and efficient. EVs would be a total non-starter if true safe margins were built into EV batteries.
If you compare the energy density of an EV battery(270Wh/kg) to gasoline(8.9kWh/kg), then gasoline is over 32 times more energy dense than an EV battery. In a Tesla model Y has a 771kg battery which weighs the same full as when it's empty . But the average gasoline tank weighs about 40kg and weighs less as you use up the fuel.
So to have the same energy density as the average fuel tank then an EV battery would have to weigh 1280kg all the time. Accelerating a huge mass such as this is highly inefficient and needlessly wasting energy.
@@vasil7410 Again you missed the point. The presences the the battery creates a fire that cannot be extinguished and spews highly toxic materials. Now fill the garage of a building with them and evaluate a few thousand people through the toxic smoke. Then there are the fire and rescue folks who have already been injured. Pray to Electric Jesus if you must, it might just get you on the first Starship to Mars, but sooner or later your go to find out he has feet clay. Praise Elon.
Spoke to a car recovery chap the other day - he went to a 300 mile Range Rover with battery heat warning on. He took it to local dealer who put it in a pit and filled the pit with water - this is the official way of dealing with a battery too hot sensor light on. Hello landfill here it comes...
only a bit of water damage sell it on😈
@@pilkipilki4472 it will all buff out.
Two tesla megapacks burned for 4 days at Dan's battery farm near Geelong with bonus toxic smoke.Took 4 days to burn itself out. Firemen watched.
"great fun - especially if you don't die" What great turn of phrase you have - cracks me up. You are spot on regarding the fire risk in a CBD underground carpark and I am sure the fire dept is worried. I hope that something bad does not happen before the risk is managed - not hopeful
Just another reason I’m grateful to have moved out of a huge metropolitan city (where parking is at such a premium that almost every building has underground parking for the big shots) to a small rural town. Almost everything around these EV’s are the opposite of “green”. What a backwards society we find ourselves in nowadays.
We lack common sense these days.😢
Thanks John. I'm with you 100% on this. Keep up the good work.
I find it concerning that EV owners don’t know the consequences of EV battery fires
They are busy twittering about how great they are
Some of them even deny the risks of EV fires. Then they say ICE fires are lot more common than EV fires.
Most petrol car owners don't know the dangers of petrol fires, what point are you trying to make, petrol cars catch fire all the time
@@knoxieman Research before commenting!
@@knoxieman there is a difference petrol fire can be extinguished by water battery fires can’t it’s more intense fire
I used to like travelling to Europe from UK for a road trip on my motorcycle using Eurotunnel... won't be doing that any time soon until they ban EV's from boarding 🔥
The plan is working already, you're being stopped from travelling, before you know it, you'll be pinned inside a fifteen minute city.
@@paulhillman400 you are so right 👍
Just a reminder that tunnel disasters so far where caused by ICE vehicles. This was the case in the channel tunnel fire and the Goddard tunnel. In those enclosed spaces, everything burns. It's why special measures were taken to allow for escape and so on.
@phillipbanes5484 and given that EVs were not the cause of any massive fires (despite many attempts to claim otherwise) there's no reason to change policies.
Yes, interesting point. In an economy (european) where around 10% of new car sales are EVs, hands up, who wants to get on the Dover Ferry (or equivalent) or the Channel Tunnel train, surrounded by 10% of EVs. Or for that matter, who wants to park in the mid floors of the mall car park, surrounded by plugged in and charging EVs, in mid summer. Let me help you with that trick question, not me. Remind me again, what was was it we were all saving? and what was so bad and evil about the petrol powered car? In USA, Ford dealers are sitting in their offices, watching brand new Ford e150 stock units self incinerating in their car yards. They just make sure to park them well away from regular stock. Why are we working so hard, to emulate that which is not working, elsewhere in the world?
Fascinating and so True. Our politicians in NZ are exactly the same.
Hey John, I used your information in council the other day, I’m attempting to convince those individuals who think EVs are gods gift to innovation to see sense on city planning matters and safety.
Spread the word. 👍
Absolutly one of the best EV fetishism explained I have ever heard. Signed with my full signature every single word you said. But only few % of population actually understands what is going on with this economic EV fail. The EV itself, the concept of it, is OK, but gosh the bateries, the source of energy is what is totally killing it.
Are you implying that the source of energy for ICE vehicles are fine?
@Aayush2614 The source of energy is same!
@@goranghair5704 But difference in efficiency.. That matters..
Love your work John, I do hope someone or something gets done soon for proper safety procedures fo protect all citizens from a EV fire. Seems like a horror movie when you think about it
EV/lithium batteries get hot when charging or being used. The best way to start a lithium battery fire is to drive your car, stop and charge it and then drive it right away. The next time you park your car, usually at home, is when it is most likely to catch fire due to the buildup of heat in the system during the above uses. In other words, its going to happen to most people eventually. You need to wait 30 minutes between driving and charging to prevent thermal overload and eventual thermal runaway. Which makes them even more useless as a choice for a vehicle.
A very good reason not to park your non EV in one of their charging spots. Or in fact anywhere near an EV. I've stopped parking in enclosed carparks for this very reason.
do you keep mobile phones out of the house at night too?
@@peejayem4700wrong analogy and lack of basic knowledge
@@peejayem4700 No. I charge it during the day. But it does show a lack of basic understanding on your part. Nothing is left on charge overnight here if that's important to you.
@@goranghair5704 ok - why though?
I was in a multi story car park when a petrol car went up. The structure filled with smoke in seconds! My wife happened to be nearer the fire when it happened and ended up in hospital, as a result of breathing the smoke, and took a few days to recover. If it had been an EV everybody would have been poisoned by the toxic gases. It doesn’t bear thinking about. I’m pretty sure it will take a major disaster in something like a multi-storey car park, before anybody does anything about EV safety and even then, vested interests will drag their feet. Think Grenfell Tower. Who in their right mind thought adding flammable panels to a building was a good idea….
A car park with 1400 cars in Liverpool, UK, got destroyed by a runaway fire in 2017 caused by an ICE car. It was pure luck it was 31 Dec, and no one was in.
@@ChineseKiwi There was a lot less contamination with hazardous chemicals as well from the ICE cars. There was also enough time to evacuate people and animals. The biggest problem was that fuel tanks failed to keep the fuel contained and it ran over the concrete floors and down the ramps and so spread faster than the fire could be tackled. The fire spread upwards as the heat rose and downwards as the fuel flowed.
@@ChineseKiwi
Look up "whataboutism". It's basically all you do so you might as well understand it.
The Building Code of Autralia requires a sprinkler system in car parks with more than 49 car spaces. For conventional vehicles this has proven effective in preventing the spread of fire to other other vehicles as well as limiting fire growth and smoke, alowing occupants to escape. Sprinklers will not offer such protection for EVs. But it gets worse. The Building Code requires the structural components of the building to have a degree of fire protection against structural failure. That degree of protection may be insufficient if there are multiple EV fires a beam and/or column could collapse. Once we achieve 100% EVs a building collapse is inevitable at some time.
From what I understand of the UK they don't have the love affair with fire sprinklers that Australia and USA does. I know for a fact that Grenfell tower was not sprinklered and that in Australia the same building would have been. I also think that the UK carpark was not protected by automatic fire sprinklers but would have been in Australia. If you think that sprinklers aren't effing awesome go and look at fire bridges around the world lighting identical rooms on fire with the only difference being sprinklers. Sprinklers are there to put fires out early if possible, slow them down for the brigades to come with more capable appliances. Sadly I think the UK has got it wrong when it comes to automatic fire sprinklers.
What is going be the first disaster. The bank of EVs on fire under a skyscraper, undermining the substrate? That wasn't the first nightmare to come to my mind. It was in a tunnel, with a fuel spill. I've banged on about the possibility of a giant pulse jet before, but thanks for acknowledging the tunnel nightmare. As for bearded ladies, my first boss, 88ish, used to scrape a plastic rule, across her five o'clock shadow, when she was thinking... Nightmares.
Stu. Melbourne
Timely and compelling commentary, as always. I often park in exactly the kind of underground carpark you speak of in the Melbourne CBD, and will be far more more wary next time I do so.
Sadly, as you correctly suggest, it will take such an event and the casualties that will accompany it to prompt any kind of response from our political "leaders" - A cargo ship on fire on the open sea is so remote and so easy to ignore.
As an aside, I wouldn't mind betting that there are discussions taking place in the Boardrooms of major shipping companies along the lines of "How many of our ships have to end up in Davey Jones's locker before we place a blanket ban on transporting these vehicles until there are proper safety protocols in place?" Maybe we won't have to wait for politicians to lower the boom...
I was thirteen in 13 in 1970, the whole world was riveted for the days it took to end that mission. It was an incredible failure and an incredible success. It was not the average way such disasters end. I hope John Cadogan's efforts make a difference in our near future.
One could imagine, as EVs get a little older there will be an increase in fires. Wires fray, things rattle loose, damage occurs, etc. All these could potentially increase the risk of EV fires.
Yes, and imagine imagine the quality controls coming out of a certain country that's pumping EVs out
Germany? Where this ship departed from?
Better not anger our overlords out east.
I've read that, in China, EVs are considered less reliable than ICE cars and undesirable. This is due in part to CCP policies that subsidized EV production with no regard to EV quality.
Imagine being someone with mobility issues in the car when the battery goes poopy.
This is also an issue equally when using petrol vehicles.
@@fknid The where are all the exploding cars from rear-end accidents?
@@sgtkabukiman9411 where are all the ev exploding cars from rear end accidents?
@caljeff2427 the example given is “someone with mobility issues”. You think this person will just sit in the vehicle on fire and just wait for it to be put out by the fire department?
@@fknid I've seen more reports of EV's that are parked and turned off catching fire, than I have of petrol cars involved in high speed accidents. So there's that.
But my point was the speed, ferocity and difficulty to extinguish of lithium ion batteries is going to cost lives. Petrol cars can catch fire , yes, but they generally don't start in the tank and engulf the vehicle in seconds.
What was it the CEO on the Titan submersible said? "tired of industry players who try to use a safety argument to stop innovation" See how well that worked...
Considering that the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center were ultimately brought down by being structurally weakened by burning jet fuel, which burns at 3000 degrees Fahrenheit; imagine what will happen to a multi-story building with dozens of EVs burning in its underground parking ramp when EVs can burn as hot as 5000 degrees Fahrenheit.
Multiple EVs burning will bring down a building in the above situation, because not only do they burn almost twice as hot as burning jet fuel, they will burn for far longer with no way of extinguishing the fire.
Every column, every cross member, and every I-beam down there is structural. Concrete will literally explode at the temperatures that EV fires burn, and the rebar within will either melt or lose its load bearing capacity from the extreme heat.
The building will come down.
I've seen a fire service training video from the UK which shows that the fumes emitted from the batteries and the fire itself are toxic and it basically means that the firefighters have to approach crashed BEVs in an entirely different way. One of my friends who's a paramedic has stated he will not be climbing into a BEV to help a victim anymore, unless the fire service can guarantee the battery is safe, In short, they are becoming a death trap and we're walking into this and no one gives a stuff.
The medics are also worried about airbags deploying due to battery issues and short-circuits triggering the airbags. In the old days firefighters would sometimes open the hood and remove or cut the battery cables for their safety; can't do that with the orange EV cables; they'll be electrocuted.
@@markh.6687 Indeed - electrocution is another hazard that hasn't really been discussed. 75v and a ridiculously low internal battery resistance are a recipe for disaster when it comes to someone literally getting their hands on it. A potentially serious hazard for any home mechanic.
@@markh.6687 Some BEVs have a plug you can pull or an accessible cable you can cut that isolates the HV battery. What's needed is a standardised system for that. AFAIK the norm in EV electrics is that the low voltage battery powers the contactors for the HV battery so pulling the 12V battery should isolate the HV battery... if you can get at the 12V battery.
Lots of shit on fire releases highly toxic chemicals.
They’re not gas cylinders popping off at the roadside, but bloody terrifying all the same!
True enough.
Very true - I live in one of the EV capitals of the world (Bergen, Norway - roughly 40000 pure Electric cars on the road in this city) and I've yet to see one either go up in flames or one burning/burnt out at the roadside. I'm not saying it won't or doesn't happen, or that the thought isn't worrying, but people need to remember that they are walking around with the same type of battery in their pocket. That could just as easily burst into flames and burn your leg off...........yet there doesn't seem to be the same pitchfork and torch waving ;-).
Once these EV's start to age, the fire risk will likely increase.
This is a freaking great show,. solid info, good humor, fine delivery. Thanks. new subscriber, West coast Canada.
Another good reason we should be buying micro EVs instead of full size EVs. The batteries would be fraction of the size and eventual fires much easier to contain.
One of the boys at work is a volunteer firefighter, after your previous vid I asked him if they did any training to deal with an EV fire…………they have been told to "just disconnect the batteries " ……WTAF.
I wouldn't want to get that close. They're damn brave people who deserve our admiration.
So in other words he was clueless.
Disconnecting a battery in run away would have no effect whatsoever!
Scary.
@@ihave7sacks When has any order from upper management been any good. Just do what you're told to do and let it burn. You did your job.
I can't help wondering whether current insurance arrangements are adequate for EVs. Just in the process of renewing mine, and noticed that it has limit for public liability of £20M. That's fine for probable road accidents, but a car fire in an underground car park could well reach that sort of damage figure (particularly if it leads to a few fatalities, structural damage of the building and so on).
I was at my insurance company's office yesterday and the conversation went to the fire on the Fremantle Highway, which is now considered to be a total loss.
He told me that he had heard that Corporate is concerned about EV fires and their severity to the point of considering requiring a rider on the homeowner policy of EV owners due to the increased risk of a fire from their vehicles.
This potential increase in costs should be considered in the 'savings' when deciding on the purchase of an EV.
See: "How Much Should You Worry About EV Fires?" Extract from this article:
"Lithium-ion battery fires can take tens of thousands of gallons of water to extinguish. The National Fire Protection Association notes one EV fire in Texas required more than 30,000 gallons (that's 110 Tons!) of water after a crash."
I already didn't want to live in an apartment because I have no control over it burning down. I would never live somewhere with EV's parked under it.
All you have to do when you finish using your electric car is remove and dismantle the battery into it's constituent parts and then store them all separately in a cool place. Next time you use it simply do the reverse, simple.
Been watching your videos here in the U.S. I am a retired auto mechanic (internal combustion) with 41 years experience, and have been an amateur mechanic, hot rodder, and drag racer longer than that. You could not give me an EV. I would never allow anyone to park one on my property. Not only are they worthless for use as a car, with their severely limited range, charging times that can take several hours, an almost complete lack of charging stations everywhere but in major cities, but as you said, they are almost completely worthless at protecting the environment as well. The real reason that western governments are pushing them is not emissions control, but people control. They are trying to take people's rights and freedoms away as fast as possible, and EVs are just one part of the plan.
Spot on
As soon as Lloyds will not reinsure ships transporting EV’s we will see a change. 24 insurers rejected my PII because Lloyds are having a crack down on engineers designing cranes, rail infrastructure and mining projects, all of which account for roughly 90% of the work I do.
I'd reckon that after eating 2 half billion dollar losses in 18 months, Lloyd's will pretty much refuse to cover any cargo of EVs that is not already in transit.
Didn’t they originally say there were only 25 EV’S on board. Very interesting John well done.👏👏
You could tell by their panicked narrative that they were butt covering
Very powerful words, beautifully articulated. Lets hope the right people are listening!
Spoke to a Sydney firie hang a break a few months ago and asked about battery fires in electric scooters cars etcl He told be a couple a week.
I stayed in a hotel in Victoria that had EV charging parking spots underneath... Yikes!
Did you die?
@@fknidwhat an intelligent response , did you find yourself laughing at your own witty comment?
@@Lazydaisy646 yes.
@@Lazydaisy646 it’s actually a valid question because of the OPs obvious concern to the obscene risks they faced staying in a hotel with EV charging.
It's worse than that. Most hotels allow ICE cars to be parked in the basement and these are 100x more likely to catch fire compare to an EV.
But yeah, architects need to take runaway fires into account for these buildings. You're quite safe.
While nuclear power has its issues, Germany closed down their reactors and started burning more brown coal instead.
John is not only a technical genius but a linguistic one as well.
Absolutely brilliant, thank you so much for producing this. I just pray and hope people watch this and take it in. No doubt you will have EVangelists on your case but the evidence is there whether or not the route cause of the Freemantle fire was an EV 🤔
(root cause) - cause, no matter, once the Li-NMC are on fire no firefighting (besides 5 tonnes of sand per vehicle, ) does a whole lot... Enjoy your economic motoring.
So to recap: the evidence doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what caused the fire or that there were only a small amount of EVs on board and we don't know anything about the rest of the cargo.
We also find the fire to be absolutely out of control except that the ship was navigated away to a safe location without any real issue at all. Right.
@@MattCasters the cargo manifest was 3000 cars of which 500 we EV'S, they were mostly from the VW group. We have all know about these catching fire when being charged. Don't you agree they are down right dangerous. I hope the ferry companies ban EV's and the Channel Tunnel too. They are simply an accident waiting to happen.
@@MattCasters Yet they literally couldn't put out the fire, no matter what they did. They sprayed so much water on it trying to cool/extinguish that they overran the capability of the bilges and the ship began to list, and the fire continued unabated until it burned all of the available fuel. With gasoline-powered cars this will not happen, you can put those fires out. With EV's, you cannot because they burn 4 to 5 times hotter and they supply their own oxygen AND fuel. Yes, EV batteries literally supply all three sides of the fire triangle internally. So no, it DOES NOT matter what caused the fire, the reason it was such an issue is that they could not put it out no matter what they did. Short of sinking the entire ship they were completely helpless.
@@MattCasters : yep - x500, a mere smattering - with 200 TONNES of self sustaining highly combustible REDOX, waiting to happen... (That the rest of the European automakers seem to be uncertain where their "other" 2500 cars may be hiding. ) lol....
you seem to have a problem with processing - IF this - then - OUTCOME a ... ELSE. - OUTCOME B,C,D,etc...
Deprive deck of fresh air (and kill anybody on the deck) does the fire die down or continue to spread...
- The cause may be simply a static discharge interacting with... ??? ... paint thinners (activation energy 68kJ/mol down to -18C), ie. In and of itself yes, the flash ingredient may be anything - The outcome, $300 MILLION IN lost cargo plus ship - get cracking, engineer a better outcome given the scenario.
PS, yes navigation ability (steerage and engines are separate from freight) and cargo on fire - in a deck/hold, not a problem - except for those poor souls on the deck, unable to access a fire escape to daylight... Freefall Escape boats are usually ready to go in the proximity of the bridge or poop deck.
LFP batteries are now becoming the norm in most mid-range and short-range EVs and they are pretty hard to catch on fire.
They're also cobalt free.....
Are you talking about Lithium Iron (LiFe) batteries?
@vumba1331 yes, Lithium Iron Phosphate. The next generation of batteries are also being prepared. It'll keep evolving towards cheaper and safer.
@@vasil7410That's because he knows that lithium phosphate is only in a very small percentage of EVs and it will probably be decades before there's a more energy dense option. Unfortunately, lithium iron is going to be around for a long time yet.
@@MattCastersYes, but currently these aren't as energy dense as lithium iron, will take some time before we have something better than lithium iron as mainstream. And there's going to millions of lithium iron powered EVS around for decades before the technology catches up.
These videos are very informative - NO Bullshit and straight to the point!🤜
It's 99% bullshit.
I'm not debating the 8%, but I understand 8% isn't the ceiling. It's 8% assuming you don't use your car for anything else (and maybe at this point in time that's what most people with EVs do). This may sound like a dumb assumption but you can also use your car's battery to power your home at night. Drive to work and charge it up, drive home and power your home. So the maximum reduction in green house gases in theory would be more than 8% but I don't know what number exactly... Of course assumes 100% electrification and correct infrastructure etc etc
Mate, you are a national treasure. Absolute gold. Your rational assessment approach to the problem is completely lacking from the political bureaucracy. More power to your arm.
Absolutely brilliant video thanks John. Will never be an EV fan and it’s unfortunate that these EV fires will become more prevalent as EVs become more popular. As much as I like internal combustion engines I do understand that we really have to find ways of reducing and moving away from fossil fuels but I don’t see what all the hype with EVs is all about especially looking at the drawbacks increasing the damage to the environment can pose both in their normal life cycle and when things go wrong.
completely agree, its more akin to a d measuring contest than anything else right now with this kind of implementation.
No doubt this time your inserted clips are authentic, well done John, that was a credibility close shave and you’ve kept your family jewellery intact.
A similar exothermic reaction that is more easily visualised and more commonly used is the thermite reaction used to melt railway track and make joints. Well worth watching a few thermite burns to appreciate the energy released with just a kilo or so of thermite. Lithium is much more reactive than iron and Aluminium.
Thermite: so easy to make, too...
@@AutoExpertJCthat sounds like a fun video. Coming soon?
Your mastery of The English Language, your knowledge of science. Something tells me your educational level is far past a simple mechanic ❤.May I add that your dark humor, for those of us who enjoy this art form above all others, is rarely matched, I might say sir ,you, in that reguard are on par with my hero Winston Churchill ( and yes I realize you are Australian). I can only offer my warmest compliment to a genius mind ❤!
That's one very great comment. Well said. Of the same league also of Francis Drake and Oliver Cromwell. I can imagine John making that speech that Cromwell made in parliament when he booted the 'wretches' out. The world is ripe now for these types to take over the running of our countries.
User bd5 agree with you 100%!
0:08 actually the data shows that EV's burns as often as gasoline cars - the only difference is that number of EV cars are still quite low in comparsion to gasoline cars, so we can't see it that often in our surroundings...and the biggest difference is that you can put out a fire of gasoline car in minutes, but if your EV starts fire, you can't stop it - you have to wait until it burns out itself so basically nothing will left from the car - what a "bright electric future" - with lot of smoke...
Love how those EV cables were coiled together!
At least it was DC...
There is talk of putting in chargers for EVs in my apartment complex and these reports have really opened my eyes. There are only a few owners with EVs but hybrids are much more common. Are hybrid cars susceptible to thermal runaway in the same ways as EVs?
Depends on what kind. There are still hybrids that use NiMH batteries. They’re a lot safer.
It’s worthwhile investigating the reduced fire intensity of Lithium Iron Phosphate/ LFP batteries compared to standard Lithium Nickel Manganese batteries. LFP batteries are a slow burn more like a wood fire than a blow torch you get with Nickel based Li-on batteries. The largest American EV maker has now included a fire retardant filler in the structural battery packs in use since 2022. Any serious fires in Teslas moving forwards are likely to be in pre-2022 models. Cold comfort but the 1.8 million that are being produced this year are safer than the 500,000 made in 2020.
Good