Runaway 500 EV meltdown on cargo ship: Proof our cities aren't ready for full EV deployment
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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As a vehicle technician, I would not want any EV parked in my workspace overnight or in my home garage while I am sleeping. NO WAY!
Thank you for your honesty!
I won't even park near one either.
Nor l.
You should also not have smartphones in your pocket, let alone charging unattended. Those piles of crap also catch fire and explode all the time.
@@wombatdk It's about the size. Smartphone batteries are relatively tiny compared to those found in EVs, thus the runaway is shorter and less destructive to surroundings.
VW, using the Sergeant Schultz defence.
I seeeee noting
I know Nussing !!
OK Boomers. All a ya.
Boomer here too.🤣
Hogan!!!
😂
Thank you for the reminder about this. I had a family bicycle store business about 20 years ago. We pioneered the sale of electric bicycles up until one of them burnt down the store. My brother almost died. The swiftness of that small battery exploding and consuming the whole shop was extraordinary. My brother died a few years later of cancer and I do wonder if the events were linked.
My condolence to your loss.
And that was a tiny battery for a bicycle!
@@FlakeyPM oh yeah, kit batteries for ebike conversions are terrible, I've seen no end go up.
Sorry to hear of your experience.
I used to own an old electrically assisted pedal cycle (from Yamaha). I sold it to a friend who still uses it. Crucially, it is powered by NiCads, not Lithium Ion.
A bike store burned up above a club I belong to and did a lot of damage to our space. It was an e-bike that started it.
As a retired auto mechanic (USA) I have been ringing the alarm bells on this very subject for years. On the one hand, I’ve said that eventually (as technology progresses) electric vehicles will be practical. On the other hand, I have stated at this point in time they are not only impractical but dangerous! For my insights I have been called old, outdated, out of step, primitive, anti-technology, a dinosaur, etc. Of course I’ve heard that ever popular retort “OK BOOMER!” The pity of all this is NONE of the main stream press (here in the USA anyway) have even run a 10 second blurb of this tragedy at sea! 😡
I haven’t seen anything of this on mainstream news channels here in the uk either
And now the salvagers have recovered all of the electric cars INTACT in unburnt parts of the ship so it appears that this was just the lamestream media spreading F.U.D. based on speculation for the benifit of the paymasters;the makers of ICE cars.
Cause its a cargo ship, many of them cause micro natural disasters all day long by dumping oil into the ocean while under way anyhow. The problem is the structure of society and investment in general. You can never slowly roll something out its always full steam or it doesn't get funding. So it would never make it off the ground. Had more money been done on researching wletroc vehicles(first cars btw) they would have been in a better placement than they are rn. Trying to delay it would just kill the indistry
@@biohazardlnfSas it should be. Electric is worse than gas. Getting children to mine lithium from one of the only few locations to mine the amounts required is disgusting. Electric cars charge on coal, nuclear, plants. When batteries go bad you have a toxic battery that will ruin the world. China already have thousands of EV cars in fields sitting to rot. Wouldn't want to hurt your feelings with facts go look for yourself Chinese Electric cars abandoned in fields. This is literally just the beginning. Let alone asking families that are barely getting by with a 20yr old used car you want them to buy a NEW car? That's BS
I’m beside myself with disbelief of how far this fake “green” energy agenda has gotten!
Can nobody see that we still burn coal for all of the electricity used to charge these death traps? God help the blind to see! God help the deaf to hear!
There are a lot of EV's here in Norway, and there have been too many EV fires that have burned down cars and homes. Lithium EV batteries are extremely dangerous once they have become unstable by strong vibrations or collisions. This is why it is almost impossible to sell an EV if it had been involved in even a very small collision. A Norwegian passenger ferry company has already banned EV's from their ferries.
…and so should the Spirit of Tasmania the passenger and car carrying ferry that travels between Victoria AU and Tasmania AU
I’m not aware of any due diligence exercised by the SOT with respect to passenger safety in the event of a catastrophic thermal runaway involving EV/s
Interesting... as I have been given to believe that Norway is a major processor of the materials needed to make the basic materials for EV Batteries....from the ore stage.
Please correct me if I am wrong....
But, like many I am bewildered as to why a green vehicle that "will save the planet."...needs its ingredients crisscrossing the oceans of the world many times...many times:
Just To Make The Battery.
How green is that? Mmm?
@@patagualianmostly7437Ayup! EVs are NOT part of the solution if the goal is to reduce carbon emissions to a level where humanity has a future that doesn’t involve having to genetically re-engineer people with gill slits so we can breathe water. Passenger vehicles are responsible for about 8% of global emissions worldwide. EVs won’t move that number much regardless of how widely they’re adopted.
Far out. We're walking into an accident waiting to happen. Hmm, would it still be referred to as an accident when it's a known happening? Either way, just Far out.
Reason Tesla tried to lockout salvages Tesla's
As someone who works in the fire industry. A number massive global insurance companies banded together and spent millions on researching how to attack lithium-ion battery fires. They tried a few things to fight a lithium-oim fires. Putting water on the battery. This did not work. Next they started a battery fire and submerged under water. This did not work. They tried liquard nitrogen. They even tried using nitrogen gas and a vacuum chamber. After millions of dollars they worked out there is only one thing that can put out a lithium-ion fires. TIME. They stood on the stage of this massive conference (I was there) and said let it burn and wait it out. They tried a number of gases products that claim they can put out the a battery fire but these did not work due to them being self oxygen producing.
What they found with all this testing was car batteries are quite safe as the chances of something going wrong is small however still very severe. What they found out what they is currently rumours of aftermarket batteries being product for cars like Telsa, Ford, Honda and Toyota they are much much worse in quality. Look at electric scooter fires. They are super common because the batteries are rubbish. The Australian fire industry is extremely worried about the prospect of EV cars have poor quality aftermarket batteries driving relatively soon.
Not ideal if your family is trapped in the car and needs to be cut out in an accident. 😳
@@rw-xf4cb They tried most of the gas products you would think work e.g. Halon and FM-200. None of these products work.
There is some FM-200 suppliers that claim they work on lithium-ion fires but sadly don’t.
@@boombox2661 If your family is trapped in an EV fire they are already dead, or given the chemical make up of the gases they would wish they were dead in an unlikely rescue.
@@ecchioni or *like with an ICE vehicle*, it literally depends on circumstance. Passing out from carbon monoxide isn't any better in an ICE vehicle crash.
@@rw-xf4cb Doubt it, if the batteries produce their own oxygen. Co2 and nitrogen don't work.
That scenario of the Sydney Opera House carpark really is a sobering thought, it could happen in any shopping centre carpark where many EV's like to congregate and make use of the charging that is usually available. If the incident on the cargo ship is not the most (relatively speaking), kindest warning to us - and if we don't take appropriate precautions, we will be literally be choosing to play with fire. If you own an EV, please don't take insult from this video - do something positive about it to protect yourself, and those around you. Sincere condolences to those who were injured and to the families of the person whos life was tragically taken.
Famous last words: "I go collect my car anyway!" from smoke full carpark. Smoke is killer in fire.
And don’t park it inside your garage if you have one
Most carparks in Inner Sydney have priority parking at ground level for EVs which means all the other vehicles are above the potential fire. Not a pleasant thought.
..any hospital, hotel, block of flats. Here in Spain, garages/car parks can have various levels underground beneath blocks of flats... or almost any type of building. In Santander, there is one beneath the city hall. Terrifying and dangerous. I had hoped we learned something from the Grenfell tragedy where something as apparently unimportant as cladding contributed hugely. This has the possibility of matching or even exceeding that tragedy in my humble opinion.
Well, imagine when we all HAVE to have an EV.
Imagine a car park below an apartment complex that is full of EVs going up like this. Or a parking lot outside a stadium where the cars are all tightly packed together. Or a mall. This is a nightmare.
Brings a whole new consideration to insurance.
Where is your car parked overnight?
Thats an apartment block isn't it?
Sorry no insurance for you!!
You know that same happens when gas car blows up under an apartment complex.. you know that right? even worse when its diesel fuel it burns longer. you know that right?
Gas cars will do the same thing...
@@TheMusicHeals.kjhjhhg you are impervious to facts, apparently.
@@paultaylor5383 And you seem to ignore the FACTS...GAS CARS BLOW UP TOO!
I watched a video a day or two ago from a firefighting representative, who explained how on car carriers, each level is packed nose to tail. He said it didn’t matter where the fire started, because even if there was one EV caught up anywhere amongst any of the cars that subsequently were involved, the fire would then be upstoppable, until its fuel was exhausted.
yes, they will be well packed in iven regular passenger car ferries, they are pack, a lot more, the cars in the supermarket car park, and as you say firefighters presentation, the card cates fire is not to keep any flames within the car are they, and even if did manage to do that, it still going to get very hot very quickly, to as said in this video, it's going oven temperatures, and then just keep go up and up, as more cars catch fire, even not eclectic, cars at temperature burst into flames, bridging gaps b etween the EV cars
MGN 635
Yup! Sal is great!
EV manufacturers might try to deny there's a problem
But it can't be long before insurance companies stop
insuring them
Happens already. AND more EV-ads as ever.
The insurance companies need to put a stop to this.
@@aygwmthey can and they won't, there are much bigger things at play with this whole green energy save the earth push.
They will just jack premiums up to meet the risk.
Let us hope that is the case, no public liability, game over. If one car fire has the potential to destroy an entire carpark then that is an un-equitable risk.
We (as in motorist generally) are literally already ‘paying’ for the addition of EV’s to the transport system, from a an insurance perspective. Like insurance generally, the risk is spread across all those insured. Net result; insurers put the overall level of premiums up to cover the average costs being covered. So those of us not driving EV’s (for whatever reason) are already paying higher premiums to cover both the increased risk that EV’s pose generally and their inherently higher costs of repair or write-off.
Hi John, I am in California, USA. We have a lot of inspired environmentalists here and they are big on solar panels. In an effort to save the power generated during the day for use at night there are some people who have installed what they call a "battery wall" in their house. (Tesla is very happy to sell them a "battery wall" assembly that they can hook into their solar panel system.) These battery walls can be similar in size to the battery assembly found in an EV. The battery walls are generally installed in a garage or basement or utility room inside the house. I had not thought about how dangerous this is until watching your video. If one of these battery walls catches fire the house would burn up like a giant bon fire. It may even spread to the neighbors if their was a little wind. It is hard to believe that the local municipalities would allow battery walls in a residential house. I guess we will have to wait until there are enough fatalities from fires before the building codes are amended That's usually the way it works. Thanks for the advice on not parking or charging an EV in your garage. My neighbor has one of these things and I will tell him about this problem.
Interesting
There was a recent recall on one brand of household solar battery because the manufacturer acknowledged that due to manufacturing problems it had a higher risk of thermal runaway.
Customers were advised to have it disconnected asap and to contact their supplier for removal and replacement.
I had not thought of this either, I will be discussing this with my superiors as we train for fire fighting with solar arrays, power walls have never been mentioned.
Don't tell your neighbor anything. Don't be that guy that sees a random RUclips video, then starts spreading it like gospel. Your neighbor is probably educated since he can afford one, and has done the research. No reason to piss off a good neighbor by criticizing his investment. Not to mention the fact that you'll want to run an extension cord from his house during the next extended outage.
@@knewhunter1You appear to be a blissfully ignorant Leftist.🙈🐑
As a volunteer firefighter I had been involved in probably 4-5 car fires. I talked with a firefighter from Pittsburgh Pennsylvania about 10 years back and was told that they treated hybrid and EV car fires as hydrogen bombs. They would evacuate everyone in a 1/4 mile radius and simply let the car burn itself out. It was to dangerous to attempt to fight the fire. So they moved everyone out of the danger zone and let chemistry sort it all out.
so the Evs will collapse the electric grid (when they get to 33% of all cars) then catch fire and burn down the every city in the west.
The Chinese have way more experience in years with EV plus the sheer numbers are waay beyond any other country. Here's their latest "rosy" report on EVs ruclips.net/video/zS6dwGFv5HI/видео.html
Get a million of them on the road in California and then refuse to let them into another state when they all start burning.
@@ronskancke1489 *"Get a million of them on the road in California..."* Sounds like someone has a bee in their bonnet.
@@feathermerchantlmao
500 instead of 25 EVs, now the fire starts to make sense.
If anyone else did that , they would hang for fraud.
A mistake of an order of magnitude, a factor of 20, which anyone could make.
You must remember VW didn't know it was screwing everyone over emissions so how do you expect them to know if they have cars on a Cargo ship
😂🤣😂💯💥
Stick your Phone Battery in Saltwater....Add heat...
Then look out...
BTW...Phone battery wears out in 18mnths...
@@4pmpm114 My Samsung is 3 years old at present?
@@4pmpm114I had to replace my car's 12v battery after 6 years.
Oh they knew🤫
I was once a lowly Bentley salesman and even I could tell you the name and location of each ship carrying my cars. I even had a maritime app that allowed me to track the ships in real time on a cute little map. It was easy.
And.......? Your point is?
@@patagualianmostly7437I think his point is obvious. VW are lying when they claim they don't know if they have any cars on the ship.
@@patagualianmostly7437 Vee Dub's lawyers are hard at work.
Marinetraffic? I started using it during the Evergiven issue, because liked seeing it on What's new in shipping.
@@leechowning2712 Today it told me that one of the old classics was in port. Tied up with work, missed it. Sal is the best!
Man I sure do appreciate your firm grip on reality! What a relief!
Hi John, I would like to thank you for your clear and informative videos. They are very easy to listen to, mainly because you don't talk at a 150 miles an hour, just a nice steady pace which is very easy on the ear, along with the occasional expletive when it is needed. All the best from the UK.
@@theclearsounds3911 Err .Either get your hearing checked, or get a new laptop. I had no problem with John's commentary.
@@theclearsounds3911Dude! Get your hearing or your equipment sorted out. The man speaks slowly and clearly in plain English. If you don't understand him, you are the problem. Decibel or not😂
@@theclearsounds3911 Nothing wrong with the video or its sound...perfectly adequate. It's a comment: Not a Symphony Orchestra.
You give up? Good. Best thing you did today.
Hi John, I’m a petrol tanker driver in Brisbane and I find it amusing that some of the major petrol stations here are installing charging stations at their sites, usually a fair distance from bowsers but in an industry that hates even a spark of static anywhere near fuel vapour and probably shouldn’t encourage EVs anyway it just gives me yet another thing to sadly shake my head about!
Ahh yes, roll on retirement please……………..
What the horrors, are they insane.
No shortage of tanker fires, but at least you get a free cremation. ruclips.net/video/XxnXMwS8NeI/видео.html
Ooooohhh. Yeah that’s not end well.
Kind of the way ‘fraidy cats feel about you rolling down their roads with tons of flammable liquid.
You're not wrong about them not liking sparks, I had my car battery fail at a servo and when my boss turned up with a new battery to fit they wanted us to push it out onto the road before we installed to new one in case of a spark. We did push it away from the bowsers but that was about it haha
It is a relief to listen to you because you say it as it is. The problem is, not enough people are watching or listening. I personally would not touch an EV with a 10 foot pole. And what pisses me off the most are all the lies "they" are telling us. And most of those lies don't even come from the car factories, they come from politicians who don't know the difference between shit & shinola!!!
10 feet is not nearly enough.
Marvellous what risks are brushed under the carpet when there is some woke agenda to push
OR, the politicians DO know...
The same thing happened to United Parcel Service (UPS) Flight 6, a Boeing 747-400F (N571UP), crashed while attempting to land at Dubai International Airport (DXB) on September 3, 2010. The final report said the fire that caused the crash started in the cargo hold that contained lithium batteries. There are an estimated 2825 electric cars catching fire each year, 1 For every 100,000 cars sold, roughly 1,529 caught fire. Last year.
There are a few million cars in existance though? Or is this just Australia or something?
Lol supercar caught fire is more than EV caught fire, imagine luxury car is so rare but just look how many catch fire it's far to many dude maybe 1 in 100 catching fire but no one complaining.
Well, if we go based on numbers alone, gasoline cars are more likely to catch fire.
The point of this video is not that EVs catch fire more often than petrol vehicles.
It’s just that when they do, it’s exponentially more serious.
Like he said,
“High consequence, Low probability”.
@@kamakaziozzie3038 The problem with the video is that he used a hoax to make a point. It has already been established that the cause of the fire on this ship wasn't an EV.
According to Reuters, Dutch broadcaster RTL has released a transcript of an emergency responder to the incident saying that “the fire started in the battery of an electric car”.
Just subbed. I like this guy. Hes one of the few normal, common sense guided people left in Australia
Yep about as rare as a Tassie Tiger.
Same!
Smart guy but he falls hook line and sinker for globalists.
@@TheGundamZero I can see that.
You say that's a knoife? This is a knoife.🔪 😂
Correct. It matters very little whether or not an EV caused the fire, it only matters that they were there to enable a runaway effect and prevent it from being put out.
The irony of this being followed by a VW advert for its electric vehicles want lost on me! Thanks John for bringing us the facts that media outlets around the globe fail to tell us thanks to their being beholden to their automotive advertisers or their political leanings, which are much in the same thing.
How long do you think it'll be before insurance companies no longer cover properties housing an EV in a garage, or require a separate/additional coverage?
Banned in multi-resident garages. WAAY too much potential liability.
It should already be a question on home insurance applications! 😂
This is mass hysteria BS. There are over 100,000 car fires every year. Many Ice vehicles have been recalled catching fire while parked. Automakers have had recalls for fires in vehicles while parked. Pretending like EV fires are some new scary thing is silly. If it burns your house down it burns your house down.
Guarantee will be more grease fires in kitchens than EV house fires even when the EV numbers hit there peak.
This whole anti EV crap is mostly hysterical. Especially if your arihnd the numbers of insurance claims for normal vehicles and other random things.
Won't happen since ICE cars burn down property since more than 100 years.
More to the point when are they going to hold car companies to account? VW was caught up fiddling emissions now it is lying about how many EV's are aboard the Dutch Oven putting fire fighters lives at risk. They say EV's are less likely to catch fire than petrol cars, can we trust their data as their track record on telling the truth is poor. In car parks will they lock people in to control the fire, you do not want doors opening and closing letting in more air and I dread what would happen in Tunnel.
Am I being cynical in believing that our main stream media are not reporting this issue? I had to search the BBC UK website to find any mention of it. A 3 line report and a 24 second video with no sound in the Europe section is all I can find.
No I live in New Zealand and people who just consume mainstream media here haven't heard about this.
I thought this too
Johnmassingham5109 what else do you expect of the BBC
You're not being cynical. It's the same phenomenon that prevents information on the vaccines' adverse effects from gaining traction in the media. Our perception of what they consider good is being managed. EV skepticism, if allowed to spread, would be detrimental to EV adoption, so negative news on them are systematically played down. They have a planet to save.
It is possible to obtain details of the Cargo Manifest for most ships, but not for the Freemantle Highway. This would identify what cars were on Board, whether the cars were new or used, what the battery chemistry was, and what was the port of disembarkation for different parts of the Cargo. The final destination was Singapore, which due to local laws is a very unlikely place to send used cars. Egypt a stopover is a much more likely market for older cars. There is no obvious reason why the Hull owner would want to hide the cargo details, but the consignee might have a different agenda. Was something there that should not have been? In any event there is an information "Black hole," which in itself demands an explanation. Even "Lloyd's List" the Daily paper of the Marine Insurance market seems to know nothing. It has now been established that there were 498 EV's on Board, not 25. The event itself is bad enough, but the apparent suppression of basic information is equally concerning.
It's a bit like the info on the adverse effects of a certain medical procedure, which, when not simply suppressed, mysteriously never gains traction in the media. The excess mortality observed in all Western countries for example. There might be something rotten in the state of Denmark...
Someone is running fast trying to escape liability; hiding information would be normal for such persons or entities. This will be in the courts for decades in various ways.
@@justynthyme
Really...does this GPS work beneath the waves? Why did no one tell the Titan Chap?
End of story my arse.....
Stop giving this over credence to technology that simply does not work on a basis that is accountable to normal people. Enough!
@@justynthymeOf course, manufacturers can track their vehicles, at least until sold. What he’s saying is that strangely, information typically available for most shipments is unavailable for this particular one. As if (that’s me talking now) the public’s perception of EVs is being managed to avoid undesirable conclusions from being reached or doubts from being raised. Such as, might EVs be somewhat unsafe? The mainstream media in the West are often more interested in cultivating perceptions than in telling the truth and this could very well be just another example of this. Granted, it’s not the media that publishes shipping manifests, but they won’t raise an eyebrow if information potentially detrimental to their preferred narrative is suspiciously unavailable. On the other hand, they will unscrupulously spread misinformation if it goes in a direction they like (such as Trump’s Russian collusion hoax). And they will block the dissemination of information if it goes against their preferred narrative, whether it is likely true or not (for example, the lab virus origin). In the current context of frequent collusion between authorities and the media, a healthy dose of skepticism towards both authorities and the media is warranted.
@@justynthyme I'm not surprised. You obviously didn't bother to read the original post either .
Thank you for reporting the truth. Thank you even more for explaining to us all exactly how dangerous electric vehicle batteries are. Information like this is very hard to find, unfortunately. I will be sharing this with everyone I know!
Just wait until there is an EV fire in the garage of an apartment or office building which prevents the occupants from leaving the building because all the exits are blocked by the EV fire.
you know why it's hard to find? because it doesn't happen that much. It's people like this guy taking few accidents making seem like larger amount. Millions of EV cars on the road already say 1000 out of 5 million catch fire are you going to tell me that's a big deal? how much of that is user error? do you know how many gas cars catch fire every year? 200X morte than electric cars. 700,000 ford f150's just got recalled for brake problems suppose we should not be letting ford make trucks anymore to dangeroius
EV,S ARE ABSOLUTE GARBAGE
Actually, he reported lies. Guess what, ALL 498 EVs were recovered from the ship and NONE of them contributed to the fire.
I used to work on these ships, each car has a bar code on the windscreen, they are scanned on and off so they know precisely where every vehicle is, the ship has a cargo manifest with all of the cargo listed. The car decks are water and air tight and there is nothing combustible kept in the cargo areas. The ship is separated into different water tight compartments and fire zones with massive fire doors separating the decks. Traditionally a fire on a ship like this would either be in the engine room or in the crew quarters ie a toaster or tumble drier, the chances of cargo fire have historically been net zero.
Gosh! A bar code. Very useful in case of fire. "Get Thee Behind Me Satan.... I have a Bar Code!"
Sorry pal, you are talking gibberish. Look at the state of that ship: The seat of the fire is nowhere near the Engine Room or Accommodation .
If it had been: The control and suppression would have been relatively easy.
The car decks are NOT watertight...they all lack vertical separation...AKA Bulkheads....
Yes, they can be shut down ventilation-wise...but that still leaves plenty of oxygen available for ANY FIRE....
Then...(Seeing as you did not mention it , I will.).. They also have an inert gas system that can be deployed....in a "conventional "fire scenario" (used to be CO2.....) and worked pretty well.....but totally useless against an EV Fire..... (Only Halon is effective, apparently, but is not environmentally friendly...you know, like an EV:)
Fire Services around the world are tearing their hair out as to determine the way forward:
And they are getting nowhere. Their current MO is to "contain and let burn"...because water and foam are useless.
Your observation: "Massive fire doors"...a fire door is a fire door...it need not be "massive" .... only effective against heat transition.
"Nothing combustible in the cargo areas".... are you serious? What about the 3 or 4 litres of petrol in every conventional new car... the plastics...the rubber tyres.....
But I save the best for last: You stated this gem!
"Traditionally a fire on a ship like this would either be in the engine room or in the crew quarters......
ie a toaster or tumble drier, the chances of cargo fire have historically been net zero." (Thanks for the laugh at that point!)
Ah! "Net Zero"...the new buzz word that means sweet F.A.....but so beloved of governments around the globe...... Give me strength!
Are you remotely aware of how many ships have been lost or severely damaged by fires in the containers they carried?
Not some "toaster" or "tumble drier" but by the very nature of the undeclared contents of the container where the fire originated....maybe another Lithium battery.....?
You know: A container: a sealed box that burned and ignited the boxes alongside....No ventilation.... Are you getting the picture Jonathon?
I was at sea on conventional cargo, Oil tankers, Chemical tankers, Bulkers & refrigerated ships...for 17 years..
( Oh.... and I also served as a Full Time Fireman in the UK )
You are talking complete and utter BS.
@@patagualianmostly7437Begone, Elonian!
@@patagualianmostly7437
I was a deck officer on car carriers, container ships, bulk carriers and passenger ships.
Can I ask how many ships you served on had a serious fire whilst you were onboard?
They got rid of the fire bulkheads and doors to cram more cars in.
We can all smell the bullshit that VW doesnt know EXACTLY what cars are onboard. But they are trying to manage PR so just let it roll in this day and age of barcodes and WiFi and internet. I cart Copper packs and every one I scan with a small handheld device is listed on the server in wherever as soon as I press submit on the device thanks to WiFi and internet. They are scanned at loading/ despatch and when they get down to Adelaide, they are scanned into receivals via the same scanner device and when it is loaded into containers for international despatch.... SAME THING! with container numbers and even the ship info added in.
Dutch Oven: Dutch here, quite the disaster in my neck of the woods. I was thinking whenever travelling around and entering underground car-parks that are often situated beneath buildings what often can be found upon entry are signs specifically prohibiting vehicles running on LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) from entering the car park because of the fire hazard they pose. I reckon something similar might actually be contemplated for e-vehicles... Ah 09:14 you're also mentioning underground car parks... When one catches fire it's tremendously more epic. :(
I wonder how many high rise offices of apartments will need to go up in smoke and incinerate occupants before bans are made law?
I've had an ICE vehicle converted to dedicated propane fuel since 1989 and have never been prevented from using underground or other enclosed carparks anywhere in Australia; LPG is proven safe from many decades use and is the cleanest fossil fuel we have, yet in ULEZ London, LPG converted vehicles are treated like dirty diesel vehicles.
I've had lpg cars in the past, I guess the problem is the heavier than air aspect, a leak filling drains etc.
I lived 20 years in NL and always drove lpg and parked in underground parking and ignored the signs, just as everybody else. It's not enforced and I bet you will find nobody in NL that drives lpg have ever been refused parking. I do not even think they put the signs anymore. Can't remember the last time I seen one.
@@garlicandchilipreppers8533 as a Dutch LPG enthousiast that has owned 5 or more cars on LPG, i've only once encountered the sign, that looked old and obsolete, and have parked elsewhere (they were not getting my money) but i know that they are still very strict on this in Belgium, our southern neighboring country. LPG cars are not allowed through the canal tunnel from France to Great Britain, but in reaction to "the Dutch oven" perhaps: Norwegian ferry operaters now will not let EV's on board anymore!
That's the same thing that happened to the last one that went down. Excellent video by the way! Years ago my three Mechanic brothers and I sat around and talked about the downfall of EV's and we decided we'd never buy one because every one of those downfalls have come to pass.
I enjoyed this channel years ago but lost touch and couldn't find again. So glad to have rediscovered. This man cracks me up.
Underground EV charging:
For obvious reasons, you never see an underground service station being able to carry out refuelling of multiple vehicles … but underground EV charging is growing without any of the safety measures service stations require … how on earth has this happened?
Emperors New Clothes? Or simply because backhanders are more prevalent than a few decades ago? You tell me.
What a friggin' nightmare !! Well done, John. The EV industry is finally getting the attention it really deserves.
I saw a mid 1960s Porche catch on fire- it was the engine and being made of magnesium it could not be extinguished with the water the the fire department was using. The batteries in those EVs is much worse , much more dangerous.
Again, well done! Very informative and entertaining....
Metal fires are "Class D" fires, and often require special extinguishing agents not aboard the average fire engine/tender.
Some industrial fire departments/brigades for factories handling such combustible metals might be able to help.
@@markh.6687indeed.
Now put the fire out when it's 20km's off the coast, and it's the size of an apartment block...
Proffessor Ian Plimer once said if an EV's battery catches on fire, get as far away as quickly as possible, for they are so toxic, he also, once said if you have na accident in your Hydrogen fuelled car, then DNAtesting will be able to find out who you
were. Well l'm walking thank you.
Don't you just love this blokes video. Well informed, to the point, and frigging amusing. Keep them coming Captain. Peace be unto you.
For me it matters a lot if an EV can spontaniously burns and/or explodes. Having such hazard in my garage is not an option.
What is really scary and sad is that they are so hell bent on plugging these EVs, that they won't even think about transferring this event to other scenarios. It will be a "one off" incident, or in the case of ship fires "contained to that specific mode of transport". I fear it will have to happen on all different scenarios, the Channel Tunnel, a passenger ferry, an underground car park, before they concede enough is enough. Take care all, Poo
Even above ground car parks (parking towers) aren't immune; the heat from burning EVs and regular vehicles could hasten structural collapse, as well as the effect of the floors and ceilings holding in at least some of the toxic gases and heat.
as soon as uncle trump gets back in office, all this goes away..
@markh.6687
There is also the issue of weight, EV's weigh much more than same-size ICE cars. Car towers were not designed for the extra weight. I've read that the
parking structure collapse a few weeks ago may have happened because of this.
I can see the Holland tunnel in Manhattan going up in smoke!
@@randy1ization You mean after he gets out of prison in about 20 years, right?
The Queen Elisabeth hospital in Adelaide has just completed a new multi level parking station. The ground floor is dedicated to handicap parking and EV charging. One end has an entry ramp, the other end has the exit boom gate which forces you to drive past all the charging stations to leave. The is also a pair of lifts which disgorges pedestrians out next to the EV chargers. The upper levels are open to the outside and have jail type bars enclosing them to protect us from ourselves which prevents emergency services quick access. How tf does this pass through council planning?
The intensity of energy storage for EV batteries is a factor in the increasing rate of fires from them. Thinner materials are being used to package and insulate the cells to try to pack more in to fit limited spaces and extend range. Flaws in the insulating and packing materials, mechanical 'rubbing' or damage can trigger fires. You can also have shorts in wiring, failures in charging systems that lead to overcharging, overheating and eventual failures and then fire.
The cheapening of the manufacturing and packaging of these batteries is not something that I had thought of, good point. I do know that tesla batteries have a fusable link on every single cell that gives some protection in the case of physical damage, but I suspect there are conditions where all it will do is buy you time.
It was mentioned how little fuel normal cars have in them when shipped. The question is are electric cars shipped with a minimal charge? If not why? They can't release that much energy if they don't have it.
@@oldtc3615That’s not how batteries work. The state of charge makes no difference to the intensity of the runaway chemical reaction when the battery burns.
@@blakesomething1840 I am a MHE tech that works on industrial equipment. The batteries hold enough energy to instantly vaporize .25 inch steal when shorted. Thats exactly how it works. You don't see this in other industries that are electrified. Big batteries and equipment are shipped all the time without incident. The dead battery I your phone or RC car won't suddenly burst into flames. It's the internal short that causes the heat for it to runaway. That's why you see these batteries catch on fire again a day after they are extinguished, they still have charge left and other areas of the pack are shorted out with damage or water creating heat.
blakesomething1840: Compared to previous battery chemistries, the various lithium battery chemistries can burn like a volcano. The state of charge matters not, just the chemicals in the battery getting into contact with each other is enough to ignite the lithium metal itself. It burns like magnesium or thermite, water does not extinguish the reaction, and will even serve as an accelerant.
A similar incident happened here in the Azores, I believe 2 years ago…ship loaded with hundreds of high end cars and EV’s. Ship burned for days before finally sinking.
Thanks for the heads up on car parks and enclosed areas with lithium batteries. Although obvious, I blindly hadn’t considered the implications. I’ll pass this important information to my family and friends. Appreciate your assistance.
Upgraded safeguards are essential.
_“Next time you are in an underground car park”_ ~ yeah once I went to one and there were no spaces left except for EV charging stations. Left with other option, I parked my HiLux there and put the charging plug into the bullbar access panel
I had one guy looking when I got back and he asked why am I parked there - I just said with confidence it’s a dual battery system mate and it needs some charge.
I didn’t lie and he seemed to accept what I said and went on.
This one, Sir, is hands down, your best episode.
You’re right, I can’t believe this isn’t on all mainstream platforms, then I realized it doesn’t fit their agenda
I'll now watch out for what the insurance industry will do following all this thermal runaway evidence. Thanks John for putting this case straight in your unimitable manner.
True, they're already busting people for solar panels, presumably because they usually have powerwalls.
Saltwater plus stupid battery = Electrolysis x 10
Insurance already write an EV off in a small fender bender as it's impossible to verify the integrity of the battery pack without cutting the car in half.
I'm sure in about 10 years they will not give insurance for EV vehicles with replaced batteries and most would have to scrap the vehicles for parts !
You left something out...
When that ship sinks it will be a major polluter of the sea...
You know, where we get our seafood and like to swim.
Sheer dot, mate!
This could also affect non EV users house insurance as insurance companies start to ask if neighbours have an EV car within a certain distance of your house, many new housing developments only have the width of a driveway between them.
Truth that.
I believe that an Insurance Co. will raise your rates of you take a bigger that usual dump and there is more methane if you eat Taco Bell. Mine went up 20% this year, no claims EVER since house built in 1956. You pay more for insurance than for the house over the life of the house.
Insurance companies have started to stop writing policies in some states for houses with solar panels on roofs. Soon there will be Man-Made Climate Activists under the direction of their HIGH Priesthood of the Climate Religion to protest Corruptionists...I mean politicians... to force companies to insure these INSANE UNproven technologies...so those companies will RAISE ALL PREMIUMS to EVERYONE....or just STOP INSURING anyone in those states. It's already happening.
@@tedhardulak7698 my insurance for 5000 SF in the mountains of PA was far LESS than what my girlfriends home of 2500 SF in the suburbs of St. Louis was. The saying out there was, "You buy one roof for your house. The insurance company buys the rest of them, at least every 20 years!" HAILSTORMS!!
And I didn't even have a public water supplied fire hydrant within miles of my home! Solar panels and windmills were a waste of money. The return was miniscule. The MOST beneficial INVESTMENT in my house construction was in the CONSTRUCTION method and INSULATION!! For 5000 SF, with a heating season that can last from October 1 to Memorial Day...I NEVER used more than 200 gallons of heating oil, and most years less than a full tank of 180 gallons. I HATE constantly paying monthly bills!
PS : ALL insurance premiums on EVERYTHING have risen because of Bidenomics...but they say it is soooo wonderful.....I wonder when they are going to drug the entire water supply, so we actually start believing that there is no inflation?! LOL
@@tedhardulak7698 They raise your neighbors rates as well.
Thanks John, I'm now sold on a new diesel. The underground carpark-tunnel scenario is frightening; being a case of when, not if.
Such a scenario has happened in China, I believe.
And the when/deadly-ness aspect only increases as these over-glorified RC Cars become more prevalent.
stop framing
I was sold to diesel more than 10 years ago. My "new" car turns 25 soon and has done 10+ times "round the world". Both oldschool (pump and injectors), ECO (catalytic converter) and has decent fuel economy (7 seater, ~45-50MPG on highway).
Some interesting statistics from the USA NTSB (National Transport Safety Board)
On average, there are 600 gasoline car fires in the USA every day.
A Gasoline vehicle is fifty times more likely to catch fire than an EV (1.5% vs 0.03%)
A Hybrid car is over one hundred times more likely to catch fire than an EV (3.4% vs 0.03%)
While Li-Ion batteries can combust, advances in chemistries in recent years is markedly reducing their likelihood of doing so. This is particularly true of developments in electrolytic materials, and (in the case of battery cells made by Tesla) Dry Cathode Technologies.
So... this whining Oz buffoon is just trying to get us all to panic. EV's are MUCH safer than gasoline vehicles. The data proves it.
Please send the ship down here to New Zealand, Labour, Greenies, Maori party are still pushing EVs like the best thing since sliced bread.
😂😂😂funny yes it’s a joke ! Australia is just as bad…PM has no idea ! ….notice all the Pollies drive around in huge petrol guzzling ICE vehicles, you certainly never see any of them in EV’S !!!!!!!!! 😡😡😡
My understanding is that several years ago in America a UPS airplane and its entire crew were lost because of a battery fire similar to this ship on the sea.
747…. Pilots got to the point that they had so much smoke in the cockpit to see the instruments (ups has since added special hoods just to deal with this…
Boeing had to delay Certification of one of their newer airliners (757?) after lithium batteries that were part of the airplane caught fire during test flight.
Only 787 had Lithium batteries 10 years ago. Nowadays you can get the 737 Max and retrofit some others. I doubt UPS has ever flown a lithium aux battery commercially.
John, your talent for turning sarcasm into into world class poetry deserves a Nobel Prize in Literature. Cheers from the USA, you rock. EV cars are a big scam from our decrepit elites.
yeah you right
I've been saying this right from the start of EV's BUT our fellow greenidiots* have brainwashed the politicians..
The hugest of scams!
I suppose all of you would suggest a Mustang Shelby GT500 as your contribution to reducing global warming.
Global warming is the biggest grift ever known to most smart people and will do nada to the climate change phenomenom.@@BrackenDog10
Thanks. You're a joy to hear. Much better than what we have in the USA. I subscribed.
You saved people's lives with your advice! I'll be thinking twice before getting into the underground garage!
*Thank You John* Your advice will likely save some lives. It's definitely got me thinking - EVs are cool tech onesy-twosy, but deploying them at scale without a plan nor viable tool to manage their deadly vulnerability is...criminal.
There is no way that BEVs (which is what I assume you actually mean when you use the term EV) are going to get to even 20% of the vehicles on the road without these issues stopping their further deployment.
Where's Ralph Nader when you really need him?
@@homomorphic BEV share in Norway is now at 21%. New registrations are at 79% BEVs. I guess the country will burn down soon.
@@GrandTheftChris we are talking about the global market here. Norway is so small as to be irrelevant. That said, Norway is indeed experiencing some of the issues with BEVs that will be what limits their deployment. Norway's eletrical infrastructure (previously amongst the most robust in the world) is near the point of collapse and who in Norway wants to own a car that cannot be taken on ferries ?
Norway with its enormous sovereign wealth fund is able to paper over a lot of the fundamental issues with BEVs by throwing money at them, but globally that isn't an option.
@@homomorphic Oslo has a population of 710k people and could represent any larger city around the world. It's a showcase regarding the future of EVs in cities. So the population of the country doesn't really matter here. Also it's only one ferry company that banned EVs. All others didn't. The irony with this is that the ferries in Norway are huge EVs themselves. That being said, I don't want to take sides here, I'm just observing.
Great video presenting the facts of the real risks and inconvenient truths regarding EVs. I am an electrical engineer love all things electrical/electronics but I am not blind to the risks of EVs. The use of Li batteries paired with solar panels for domestic use. These are usually installed anywhere that is convenient, in a garage, under the kids bedroom, anywhere really…
There's a number of EV's regularly parked in the underground car park where I work. Virtually all of them are plugged in to wall sockets all day, happily sucking free electrons courtesy of the building owner. Some are even conveniently parked right next to a fire exit door, while others are located right near the lifts. Fortunately the Childcare Centre is located several meters from both the lift & car park entrance, so the kiddies should be fine if something goes wrong down there.
How do you know they are free? I've had EV s for years and the era of free charging was over some time ago.
@@robburrows2737 does it really matter ? free or not, think you missed the point dude
@@robburrows2737 A Childcare, lift shaft & fire exit are at stake, yet you're most interested in the electricity? OK.
Well let me indulge you then. I know because a) I work for the company that owns the building, including the car park & b) All the cars are plugged into standard power points.
@@robburrows2737👈🏼 Found the EV Apologist referenced in the video I just watched...
🤦🏻♂️😆🤣
Just brilliant. that is the video , not the impending doom of multi storey car parks of EVs going up in smoke.
I love the way you just get to the point, and don't beat around the bush. Works for me !
I Love my Generation, they tell it like it is and don't GAF if anyone likes it nor if your feelings are hurt or you are OFFEDED. Sir, keep on telling it like you see it and thanks for the vid.
For those whose panties got tied in a knot, we don't care.
Had a few arguments with some of these sycophant EV worshippers, they all said the same things and couldn't/wouldn't admit that how it started was the least important part of this story.
I'm wondering how they will be able to continue to ship in this manner as I can't see insurance companies continuing to insure these vessels.
How it started is not the least important part of the story, iidot.
@@justicedemocrat9357did you intentionally misspell idiot ?
@@justicedemocrat9357 How so Einstein?
Any number of reasons why/how it could have started but the fact is that if it could have been dealt with in the normal manner we likely wouldn't be having this conversation.
If it was started by an EV battery failing then that just makes the situation that much worse eh?
Most of the people I argued with kept trying to tell me how much less EV's catch fire and the numbers kept growing........10, 20, 50 times less likely were quoted but not one of them would make any comment on how bad the fires were or how to extinguish them..............
It’s all about risk vs reward. Until risk out ways profit the shareholders of the company see it business as usual.
@@justicedemocrat9357 Might want to consider spelling the word you're trying to insult me with correctly as well dude.
I'm guessing that you meant "idiot" but it seems to have gone horribly wrong.
The irony, it also burns..............
Thank you John.
I heard from transcrips that one of those survivers saw the battery of an EV start a fire... Dutch papers still don't know what started it. Anyays... one side is defending the severity and the other side is downspeaking the EV cause of this.
Typical enough... now on my Facebook in Holland, the EV ads are just crazy crazy in numbers. About every 5th remark is an EV ad...
How will this go... we have to talk about this. EV's in city garages / our neighbours EV / EV on a lot of ferries here at IJmuiden seaport / charging stations at IKEA parking area's. It's crazy. Just crazy. Nobody (in high rank) talks about the cons.
Thanks, just forwarded this to the family. EVs galore here in Phoenix Arizona metro area. Just having the knowledge to not be downwind when driving or walking by an EV fire could save a life. 🙏
Your show is always so damn good. Thanks.
One of the UK ferry companies are refusing to carry damaged EV's with a battery inside or batteries separately. Lady in US had a loaner EV in her garage. Unused for days, not on charge. House and car are just ashes now.
Why did she have a ferry on loan in her house?
@@theairstig9164 2 different topics.
Great report John. I live in NSW Southern Highlands and am amazed at the growing number of EVs. They have taken over from Toyota Sahara Landcruises as the local status symbol. As for Bullshit Bowen...god help us. 🙏
No you got it wrong, isn't Bowen, the minister of I.Q of low expectations.😁
You watch how the trendy Teals quickly dispose of these garbage. I’ve never seen them do anything for the environment.
Great video mate, love the combination of facts, sarcasm and rational advice. RUclips needs more people like you, keep up the good work.
At one stage they said all the EVs are OK ?????
Well, well said! I have a little 1400cc petrol car that I bought second hand and for the rest of my life with my car I will do less damage then the EVs. Love the way you speak, matches my jaundiced eye view on things in the world.
Thankyou John from the UK, nothing much on the news about this.
Absolutely spot on about the religious aspects of the electronic utopia. Here in Gotham, a few structural engineers crunched some simple numbers and warned that high rise car parks are not built substantially enough to be able to withstand the additional weight of increasing numbers of evs. Things will break, they said before being told to shut up.
Wow. Didn't even consider this aspect of it.
I'm anti-EV, and this is more evidence why.
I was in a large hospital parking deck this past week. I never thought about the weight of these things in a parking structure.
I almost got burned by a battery jump start pack that malfunctioned, it was swelling and another mechanic had tossed it on the floor about 5 feet from where my toolbox was. I went to grab a tool when I saw a flash out of the corner of my eye. I jumped back just in time to see flames shooting out and scorched the floor right where I was standing 2 seconds before. That was a little battery pack the size of a brick. EV’s have batteries hundreds of times bigger.
The picture of the ship nearly all yellow with the heat told me all I needed to know.
I'm a 'picture' person too.
What a mess, imagine having one of those in your under house garage, you would never sleep soundly again.
Check out the Mercedes that caught fire in the garage in California the other week.
Mercedes have a huge problem.
Someone in NZ just had their electric scooter on charge overnight. Caught fire and they are in hospital with serious injuries. Apartment a mess. Sprinklers did nothing.
That could over heat cement and cause cracks possibly. But that's for a fancy home. Most are wood and sheetrock.
@@grahamcampbell9261 AVD Fire Extinguishers are the only thing I have seen that comes close to putting out these fires and nobody has any of them.
No one is ready for these fires.
Fire Brigades included.
All it takes is one mobile phone short circuiting or any other product that contains a lithium battery while you're asleep and the same outcome.
I have been charging my EV in the garage for the last 7 years.
Of course, my EV has to date sold more than 650,000, and none have ever caught fire while charging!
Geez, that's scary stuff. I can see this happening in a real bad way.
The Salvage operators chief announced yesterday that all 498 EV's on board were accounted for, and as they were on the lowest deck; NONE of them were damaged. He has concluded that none of the EV's was the cause of the fire without saying what was. While that will be a relief to EV manufacturers the media damage has already been done and the facts have largely not been reported. Despite the EV's not being the cause nor being involved at all in the fire it might still be useful that the fire prevention measures on these ships has been thoroughly discussed. But not Guilty M'lud.
🤣 ... "None of [the EVs] were damaged." That didn't age well.
I keep following the "dutch oven" story with interest. Makes me think. In our country the current plan is still to ban the sale of any car that is not an EV in 6 years time. Also in my city they are currently demolishing an above ground multi-storey car park in order to replace it with an equivalent subterranean car park, and put a massive hotel above it (not that we need another hotel). I was initially thinking this was dumb as most of the city is on flood plain land and the water table is really high. However, now I can see a far more dangerous situation occurring. They are planning on putting in a lot of EV charging points on the first subterranean level, so those staying at the hotel can have a lovely "fresh" charge in the morning. Can you imagine if the worst happens at say 02:00 - 03:00 in the morning. how long it may take to get noticed. Limited night staff trying wake occupants and escape through toxic smoke. I am not looking forward to news like this, and as you say roll the dice enough eventually it'll happen. We are mostly seeing brand new EVs at the moment, wait till they are 10 -15 years old and they are third or fourth owner in, in the hands of those less financially able to maintain them in a 100% pristine condition.
Well if its below the flood plane at least the smoke could be confinde filling the whol park at once. Still the water would be toxic afterwards.
I used to watch your reports with a little detachment. Now I drive an EV for work, both through crowded city streets and on the highway. Now I am chilled to the bone by the words "thermal runaway".
Look up EMF from electric motors and high voltage control gear too😂
I can assure you, being chilled to the bone won’t last long.
@@highdownmartinbest comment on internet today.
Very, very good analysis of the EV situation. Thank you John.
I was involved in the fire service from early 2000's to mid 2010's, during that period all the hybrids caused some concern because we only had a small foam system, and water on a heavy metal/chemical fire does not work in the case of batteries. About the best you can do is just prevent any cars/buildings near it from lighting up.
It's only a matter of time when an EV is involved in a pile up in a tunnel, with a fuel spill, and a thermal runaway incident occurs. Perhaps the accidental giant pulse jet could rear it's ugly head, because the engineers never saw it coming, because they thought their sprinkler systems could put anything else out.
Now that would please Satan.
Its already happened , only it was an ICe truck causing the problem, Mt blanc tunnel 1999
An "accidental giant pulse jet" that is a truly terrifying, and entirely plausible thought. Perhaps not likely, but definitely plausible. Can you imagine the horror of this actually happening in peak hour in the Sydney Harbour Tunnel or Sh!ttyLink?
Do they transport EV's through the "Chunnel', great way to bring in the waters of the English Channel.
A year or so back, I suggested that perhaps EVs should be placarded, and not to travel through tunnels. That didn't go well. We'll see.
Hey John,
I took my first firefighting course in the 1970's. Even back then they taught about chemical chain reactions. If you look close at the process you should find that the thermal runaway is not a driver for the fire, it is a symptom. Once there is a failure and the chemical chain reaction has started the thermal runaway is the symptom that tells you it is too late to stop it.
I remember 30 or 40 years ago when people were converting liquid fuel cars to use pressurized fuels like propane or lpg. They were deemed too risky to allow in any underground parking and hence banned. Well, the risk with EV's is a little different but the consequences appear much worse than a pressurized fuel vehicle, and the number of vehicles is many times greater. I am amazed that they have not been banned from all underground or enclosed parking facilities. There have been reports of EV's catching fire in a garage and taking down the whole house because of what you describe... there is no way yet known to stop the chemical chain reaction. I am also amazed the insurance companies are not charging EV's 2 or 3 times more than other vehicles since they often seem to destroy far more than themselves when they fail.
Murray
some insurance companies are refusing to insure live aboard yachts fitted with lithium batteries
@@rovak300 There was a multi-fatal fire on a dive boat a while back. Phone charging.
This is one brutal, crude, yet accurate assessment of EVs.
History demonstrates that what forces a reckoning is at least one major disaster (on land) before an inherent threat is recognized and addressed.
Dozens/hundreds of EVs concentrated in an area is dozens/hundreds of highly toxic smoke/fire bombs.
John, as usual, you speak a great deal of sense. The Sydney Harbour Opera House scenario is truly concerning, and one day will happen somewhere on this planet. You warned us (and them), was anybody listening?
Informative, entertaining, jaw dropping and worth sending on to anyone you know. Thank you for making this and sharing it.
I am very aware of the nature of the toxic smoke, cobalt etc from Li-ion fires and have been warning people about the issue.
Recently I arrived in Sydney on an XPT train and headed to the suburban platforms to continue my trip. As I had a suitcase, I took the elevator to the platform, and a young guy rushed in with his EV bike as the lift door closed. I was horrified and then realised, oh well, no charger.
On the platform there was a train driver waiting for the lift and I told him about my concern of electric bikes in trains. He said that they had recently had a briefing session about these. Imagine one of these batteries having a thermal runaway in a train with 200 people in it.
Even worse, the NSW trains are stainless steel and the doors lock as the train is ready to depart. This is done to stop people forcing doors open and delaying the over-loaded train service. NSW ignores international standards on this issue.
Kepp up the good work - the populace needs to know about this.
remote locking doors is very common on modern passenger trains, buses, as they are on cars, and planes.
emergency escape points has to be done thru breaking windows or using emergency escapes. Its a trade off.
@@stephenarbon2227 Good point. I'll be on the Sydney suburban train network this coming Thursday and Friday and will look for the emergency evacuation measures.
@@stephenarbon2227 BTW - When the Waterfall train crash happened, the remote locking did not unlock and I understand that the Fire Brigade may not have had stainless steel capable saws. And the 000 call-taker thought the first calls were kids having a lark.
I don't think there is cobalt in the batteries. I think it is in the electric motors as it is used to make magnets. But I am not an engineer or anything so I may be wrong.
@@Michael-hm8cs John Cadogan mentioned the two firefighters in Melbourne who got the cobalt particles on their forearms and are now permanently disabled. It did come from the batteries. It is highly toxic (which he has mentioned in a previous vlog).
Thank you for expanding our understanding.
Great delivery
An underground car park tragedy. That is prophetic - there was a gag The Onion did on deep sea submarines, that the incident report said "it wasn't tested on enough poor people first".
In this instance I think the 'reactive safety' inspired response will make Nypro and Piper Alpha look like a picnic.
Excellent work John. Reading through the comments though it's like some people didn't listen to a word you said. I've had a few lithium polymer battery fires, albeit on a much smaller scale...hobby level rc stuff. Everything you say is right on the money. Most disasters happen when charging. If for whatever reason it all goes skyrockets and Roman candles, there is nothing you can do except move away and hope not too much other stuff gets toasted.
I have been talking about the risks/issues with EV fires FOR YEARS NOW.
The response I have gotten from the few people who actually listen is : “EV fires are not common, more ICE cars burn than EV” and “there are fire blankets made for EV, so no problem”….
SMH..
Edit: my worst fear is a multi car accident in a poorly ventilated tunnel involving BEVS….
I’m a bus driver at Leichhardt Bus Depot in Sydney and we’re currently converting to Electric buses. We have about 50 in operation with more on the way. This thermal runaway disaster scares the hell out of me considering that we drive these potential time bombs through tunnels under the city. We have 20 charge stations with some as close as 20 metres to a 110,000 Litre diesel storage tank. If/when a worst case scenario was to ever happen the suburb of Leichhardt will be no more.
ruclips.net/video/5r-yN8SugWM/видео.html is a good validation! Imagine a bus full of strap hangers!
Wow! It's a good thing EVs are green and good for the environment, otherwise I might be concerned what a chem analysis of the water and air around that ship might reveal...
Just a like but if there was a haha I would use that. What a toxic mess it would be!
Absolutely! There was an investigation after a fatal air crash involving lithium batteries. They went to a special research facility to test what happens when a box of lithium batteries catch fire, & they almost burnt down the facility! Apparently lithium burns at about 2000°C.
Imagine an EV fire at a service station that also supplied petrol?
I reckon that 'Dutch oven' will burn to the waterline if it doesn't sink first. Or it'll burn to the waterline & then sink!
Thank you from England for a most enlightening and thought provoking video. I will be quoting from it endlessly. Time to pause this crazy battery madness.
Brutal truth. Thanks for the parking lot tips!
VERY, VERY INFORMATIVE! You did a great job presenting points of concern that certainly 99% of the public hasn't thought of!
Thank you for posting this video!
Really good video and well explained 👏 this is just the start of EV nightmares to come. Got me thinking, mind that I've just done a 24hr ferry crossing from the UK to northern Spain. What would happen if this sort of fire started 😢😢
This ferry incident has literally already happened with ICE cars. See a refrigeration unit in a truck on the MS Norman Atlantic in 2014. Also, an ICE car burns significantly more CO2 and carbon monoxide and I don't think you're gonna give a shit about the other chemicals when you pass out from carbon monoxide poisoning.
Also do you think huffing in that benzene from a petrol fire is all good mate?
@@ChineseKiwiAhhh.. there he is, the keyboard smug EV lover.
@@RealButcher or it's literal context. Both are as dangerous as each other. Tunnel? See the Mont Blanc tunnel fire where most of the deaths were due to carbon monoxide poisoning.
@@RealButcher I thought you wanted 'well explained'? That includes context mate. Don't play dumb.
@@Renegade040 yep, John created a bigger bogan magnet than Bathurst.
Did you hear about the Kent service station that built 50 new ev chargers but can’t turn them on because the local grid can’t serve enough power for them! But yeh let’s all get evs! And now London is extending the low emission zone! It’s a joke!
All this is spot on. Another trigger event leading to Armageddon could be the collapse of a multi-story carpark in a crowded city due to increased floor loading of a critical mass of parked EVs
Very good point about the extra load on structures from heavier EVs. We have a multilevel "Park and Ride" parking structure at a nearby transit mall that really needs more capacity, but it was not designed to handle any additional levels, will it hold up to a full load of EVs?
I've got an EV. I have a solar storage battery in my garage as well. It's quite an investment, and does have its benefits. However, John lands too many good points here. I have decided not to buy either product again until the Li-Ion tech is supplanted by something that doesn't have this issue. Furthermore, I now need to take steps to remove/reduce the potential danger of these products.
Park outside and away from your home, please.
In the RN we trained to a pretty high standard of firefighting and all war canoes were packed with trained sailors who knew their capabilities and didn't go into panic mode when the balloon went up. Most of these sea haulage firms use minimum foreign crew (Lower wages) requirements and I shudder to think about the levels of damage control/firefighting they receive.
What about the term "impossible to extinguish" don't you understand? The best firefighters in the world can't extinguish a fire that cannot be extinguished.
@@homomorphic Yes I know that ... but RN warships don't carry EV's as far as I'm aware so all we had to worry about was the odd Exocet missile cooking off in the silos or worse, the beer storage space getting overheated and causing the cans to rupture. But we didn't panic but practised boundary cooling just in case.
@@astafford8865 After my time staff ... wwwe sole the Ayatollahs (Or the Shah back then) those nice looking Amazon class frigates Zaan and Zaal as I recall, which tended to melt when they went on fire. o|---)
Hi John, your right on the money whith this video, I have to admit I didn't realy understand how bad the toxic crap from these batteries was, and the covered in carpark senario is well beyond scary. I don't own an Ev, nor do I whish to own one , but if I had no choice in the matter then I'd be parking it as far away from my house as my property would allow, and as you said away from the house while charging. This burning ship is an environmental disaster, and another wake up call to governments worldwide, but their too little too late reaction seems to be their modus operandi. Thanks for another interesting, and sobering video mate, stay safe, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart UK.
Just took delivery of a Tesla model Y, and when I was getting the wall box charger installed every electrician and I don’t know how many others were surprised I got the charger installed outside, this just makes me more sure than ever it was the right thing, don’t charge in enclosed spaces.
Meanwhile, over here in Seffrica, due to the catastrophic dogshow that is Eskom bringing us unrelenting "loadshedding", everyone and his cousin is installing solar panels and lithium ion batteries. The batteries are usually installed in the garage, or the kitchen. What could go wrong ...