Prof. PAUL CHRISTENSEN Electric Vehicle Battery Fires SUBSCRIBE NOW
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2023
- Prof. PAUL CHRISTENSEN Electric Vehicle Battery Fires SUBSCRIBE NOW
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PROF. PAUL CHRISTENSEN
Through his research under the Faraday Institutionfunded ReLiB andSafebatt projects, PAC has sought to inform first responders of the risks and hazards of lithium-ion batteries and hence (hopefully) to avoid
injuries when dealing with LiB fires and explosions involving (principally) electric vehicles and battery energy storage systems. He has given more than 100 presentations to first responders across the world as well as help and advice on an ad hoc basis.
He is the Senior Advisor to the National Fire Chiefs Council and serves on
a number of UK Government and British Standards Institute working and
governance groups. He is the recipient of 2022 Motorola Foundations
Knowledge Event Series award from the Australasian Fire and Emergency
Service Authorities Council for a lecture tour of Australia, Tasmania and New
Zealand. PAC has over 180 publications in international journals and an
H-Index of 53
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I saw where many EV charging stations are located at gas stations. Imagine the possibilities.
Like: smoking while charging?
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But when one has no God to believe in, one can be made to believe anything, as in, to save the planet we must convert to EV or we're all gunna die! YES we're all gunna die, but ones who know Jesus Christ will be in Heaven! NOT Hell with the rest of the devout save the planet fools! (The planet is finite, your soul in infinite!) Learn it!
@@EverydayRoadster what's your point? that's illegal. gas is highly flammable, as it's supposed to be.
Smoking kills?
@EverydayRoadster
Brilliantly explained. What I find so troubling is the fact that all this was known about from the very beginning, yet they still cared on to but the technology on the roads . So now we have an industry stuck between a rock and a hard place , not withstanding the practicality of the vehicles . Thank you again for bringing this to a wider audience .
Totally by design. Totally. Now, all you need to fully understand is - What's their game plan? I'll tell you what though, they've been very clever and loaded the gun for a Win - Win for the Globalists
Would like to know the how the ratio compares to ICE vehicle fires.
re: "What I find so troubling is the fact that all this was known about from the very beginning..." bingo, the hazard's been known for at least 40 years, but the OVER-RIDING "economic desires" to commercialize and sell a product necessitated that any info regarding the danger be SUPPRESSED.
@@modquad18 re: "Would like to know the how the ratio compares to ICE vehicle fires." okay but why...? for all's you'd be engaging is the classic mistake of making an "Apples Vs. Oranges Comparison" and that's something NOT to be done (everybody knows this).
@@modquad18 It's said that ICE fires are more numerous, but ICE car fires generally stop burning when submerged.
thank you for this eye opening seminar. we appreciate you sharing your knowledge Sir
What is the most frightening ?, the obvious danger from these batteries that should mandate an exclusion from any buildings' underground park or even tunnels... or the fact that this is largely ignored (hidden ?) by the mainstream media and politicians ?
EV battery fires hidden by mainstream media, did you really mean to type that.
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Rubbish. This is mostly pushback from the fossil fuel industry. This man is an alarmist.
It's not really hidden. EV and battery fires are in the papers all the time.
Smartphones and laptops shouldn't be allowed on airplanes, according to your statement.
@mguy sent a few of us over to subscribe! Great content Russ!
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I sent the link to @mguy and he didn't even credit me!
One of my friends had a lithium battery from one of his radio control cars "pop" and start on fire in his garage. He used a shovel to throw it out into the driveway.
I told him to put his RC car in a plastic bin in the middle of the yard, 20 feet from any structure, and run an extension cord to it when charging.
He didn't listen.
A couple weeks later, he heard a "pop" in his infant son's bedroom. He ran in and grabbed the child out of the crib as flames shot out of the closet. His house was burned beyond repair. Luckily they both made it out alive.
If he hadn't had the previous experience and instantly identified the "Pop" sound, and known what it was and what it meant, his son would have died. Had he been asleep at the time, they could have both died.
A fire at the Pitsea UK recycling centre 5 miles away from my house, was put out after 3 days. "Firefighters were called to Archers Fields, in Pitsea, Essex, at 12:30 GMT on Friday after 250 tonnes of material and plant machinery caught fire". "A total of 52 crews attended the incident and residents were urged to keep their windows closed". "It was finally put out on Sunday afternoon and an investigation found it was caused "accidently" by a lithium battery which had been put in a skip".
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Loved the prevention learnt a lot thank you
Oil tank fires can burn for days before they are out.
The intensity of the fire is irrelevant to the discarded battery.
You really should educate yourself about risks verses consequences calculations, before making comments like that.@@Longtack55
Surprisingly being a level 3 Hazmat responder this lecture was right up my ally, totally understandable material and very scary stuff.
isn't it ironic that your certified level of professional service is needed to *_clean up the EV mess_* after the EV battery fails, but no special information is even given to the unsuspecting schmuck who *_buys and drives_* one of these bombs on wheels..... sadly the public will learn soon enough.
stay safe.
It's crazy to me that the rush to go green has meant the dropping of safety requirements that have been built over decades of vehicle manufacture. Lithium ion is an unsafe chemistry that has been allowed whilst we wait for solid state alternatives. In the mean time fires caused by battery thermal runaway are seen but we are told, ICE cars catch fire too , like that is a good reason to sit on a potential bomb that may just randomly explode because of a battery fault. To me, that doesn't sound "sustainable".
What an intelligent man, why can’t we have people like him in government…
Because he goes against the 2030 Agenda.
Government is like a mafia gang. Only like minded criminals need apply.
bc people in Government are controlled puppets - otherwise they wouldn't get those positions!
Because DEI!
they are _too smart to work for the government_
What a fantastic expanation, clear, factual and easy to understand. Thank you Prof. Christensen.
He is so right, these batteries should not exsist.
I would not drive an EV if I was given one for free, I value my life and my families lives far too much.
How about lead/acid batteries? They have a MUCH higher chance of catching fire and he gasses it puts out (when they are being charged, they can produce explosive mixtures of hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) gases, and often contain a mist of sulphuric acid) yet we use them in almost EVERY vehicle!
Alarmist nonsense. Even if it was all true, and it isn't exactly, lipo batteries will never destroy as much property, kill as many people or do as much environmental damage as our addiction to oil does already.
People are stupid. There's a learning curve with everything. Learning to avoid and regulate the mfg and use of substandard or inappropriate batteries is just part of the learning curve.
@@djalan2000 If lipo batteries are so inherently dangerous, why are there still cellphones?
This entire issue is one of low manufacturing standards and consumer stupidity. Neither is unsolvable.
Remember the hysteria that ensued when morons tried to run e-cigs off of AA NiMh rechargeables from Radio Shack? Remember when people looked at you funny when you said "18650"?
You are ten times more likely per mile driven to have your gasoline powered car catch fire than an EV. Your gas tank with just three gallons in it it contains more energy than a fully charged Tesla Model Y battery and can explosively release that energy in a small fraction of the time it takes an EV battery to combust. Gasoline is scary stuff, although admittedly it is _much_ easier to extinguish than an EV battery once it is on fire.
Have I told you about my safe, reliable, & cozy 20 yr old Lincoln Town Car?
Sounds like my safe reliable 2004 Prius. Nickel metal hydride battery. 210,000 miles on it. I’m sure it won’t last much longer but I’m quite happy with it, and the gas mileage is very good
They are coming for your Lincoln
@@newsoftheday420 / By the time they do I’ll be too old to drive.
My 2004 gmc sierra 2500hd duramax is safer.
Gas ignites easier then diesel. 😉😅
@@2dogsf-ing / Are we turning into Cuba with the whole old car thing?
Many thanks in rising awareness of this hazard and that we have to run immediate to survive and stay healthy.
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Very powerful illustrations and a passionate delivery. Frightening to think they are soon going to install EV charging points under my wife's office in a 43-floor tower block. But hey, 'we know what we are doing'.
Get your wife to LEAVE.
This video is an amazing resource of information about lithium ion batteries. I went to my cabinet to check my Mavic Pro "smart" batteries, Im trying to keep them 40-50% in charger while in storage.
This video should be show at schools during chemistry lessons! To prepare young brains for the future our gov is pushing our throats ...
I came from recomendation of @MGUY Australia
BTW - if they're LiFePo4 they'll be fine down to 30% - I've had some with BlueTooth on and still perfect (one cycle) after 2.5 years
@@CosmicSeeker69 Thanks for info, I used them about a year ago, they still kept about 40%.
Not sure if I should charge them back full and allow them to self discharge in 10 days to about 65% ? ?
I'd like to know how "education" is going to help.
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@@CosmicSeeker69 All 3 of my Mavic Air batteries died, for lack of use and now won't take a charge. POS.
BRILLIANT PODCAST
About a year ago or so, there was a rain event in Florida and many EVs got too wet. For the next week after the rain had stopped, there were several fires as the batteries failed. Don't know if water or moisture seeped into the batteries, or if something shorted them out and caused them to drain too fast, over heat, and ignite. I suspect moister got into the batteries because it took a few days before they started igniting. If they were shorted out, I'd expect them to ignite while still wet.
At any rate, California is getting a rain event right now. The story writes itself at this point. On a positive note, most of us enjoy fire works, so it's reasonable to assume that we'll consider these EVs to be just as pretty.
Iirc the damage was done by saltwater carried on land by the storm??
Nonsense. Here in the UK it rains a lot and next to no EV fires.
@@rogerphelps9939
A little British rain is nothing compared to the way it rains in Florida. You can easily fact check what I wrote. Just put into google the terms EV fires after hurricanes. It was a happening thing for a few weeks. On every 6:00 PM news cast.
We have deep fords here in UK. EVs get through. ICEs don't. EVs subsequently do not catch fire.@@cherryjuice9946
Most likely water got into the 12 violt battery and electrics. The main EV battery is sealed and watertight.
Brilliant lecture. Paul should be knighted. Maybe that should get some attention where attention is due.
3 electric British busses recently burned up.
Imagine the battery going off in a bus full of people, many of them elderly, with the gasses venting into the bus. How long does it take for the bus to stop and all the passenger to evacuate?
Good point. When mass deaths occure, only then will ev's be banned for public use as transport, cars etc. included.@@stoissdk
And a lorry in Australia
Ye they should allow smoking in gas stations it's perfectly safe nanny state gone mad.
You have to marvel at the amount of HAZMAT toxic smoke they spew out when they burn. Is that the low emission utopia that Mr Khan wanted?
From America - thanks to Dr. Christensen for this important research. We are doing the best we can to share this with the fire service in America. We have to catch up to this for public safety and that begins with education.
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Heard Prof Christiansen in Hobart Tasmania about a year ago. Great presentation! I'm a volunteer TFS Brigade Chief and volunteer SES road crash rescue unit member.
I quote him often.
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I suggest you go and watch your Australian colleague who was interviewed on the Fully Charged Show channel. She has made a study of EV fires worldwide. She is dealing with what actually happens in EV battery fires, not speculation There have been something like 10 EV fires in Australia and practically al of them had nothing to do with the EV battery. Please watch it becauseshe has had the experience.
@@rogerphelps9939 At the risk of sounding, realistic
Self delusion is a very powerful force.
Fantastic presentation. I'm used to LEL and UEL transporting flammable liquids etc., not even worried. Li-Ion battery packs scare the bejesus out of me! I did not know about the heavier/lighter than air clouds or the VCE potential of it. Just think about how often you park in a shopping centre garage or semi-closed parking space. As he says, these things are everywhere around us.
I've not parked in a shopping centre or enclosed space for years, that I can think of. I guess there was a car rental 5 or 6 years ago that I collected from an airport car park, but it really is an extremely rare event for me. But I take your point that it is quite common behaviour, at least for some people/places.
and you probably have one in your pocket right now, but no-one thinks about it... I even have them in my RC cars and it's always a concern as I've seen the puffed-up cases of even low voltage/low power (7-11V, >5A/hr, so ~50-60W/hr) Li-Ion batteries, though thankfully I've never had one react as in these videos!!
@@kramer26 Exactly. A puffed-up lipo won't explode or offgas unless you stick a nail through it or cause it to get very hot.
My neighbours went up like a firework they truly are horendous on the lungs ,I have burnt nerve endings due to one time ingestion .
@@kramer26
My "pocket bomb" has a feature where it won't warp charge above 80%. It does get hot af when charging, it's 30W after all, so I used an air vent holder when driving to get ac cooling on it 😄
It also doesn't like being left in a car when it's below freezing. Throws a cold warning ⚠️
Very good video , Thankyou for sharing this vital - need to know knowledge.
Adds reality to the old joke of "what steps do you take in the event of fire, Bloody great big ones"
A very interesting and informative talk which as many people should see as possible.
Amazing video / presentation and an absolute eye opener on how dangerous these can be. It's like most things in life, when the safety systems work, they're great but when they don't it can be disastorous. I bet people would of had these conversations when it was decided to create a spark to purposely ignite a highly flammable liquid.
This should be compulsory viewing for everyone who has any dealing, in any way, with lithium batteries. Too few people have any idea of the possible dangers or consequences.
i'm surprised youtube allows this video.
They don't .. just tried to post this. Refreshed FB .. post was there for 10 seconds ... aaand , gone.
Why? because it's telling the truth on the tech the world is forcing us all to accept?
Why would you be surprised? This is essential information that EVERY person globally needs to be made aware of, particuarly the ploiticians ramming these cars down our throats.
A really interesting presentation, thanks
As an EV car owner and lover this is a good video to watch. I don't own a drive way and if I did I'd park my car slightly further away from house after watching this video. In a way the visuals of thermal runaway make sense as my car battery can hold up to 64kw (usable, more actual), if I stood in front of 64x 1kw heaters I think bad things would happen as well. Huge power numbers.
I do agree that home battery storage probably shouldn't exist as long as it has the potential to do that. I'm more a fan of using the car battery as the home energy storage - at least it's a bit safer that way. There is a lot of research and upcoming new batteries that are a lot safer and I think the industry does realise this.
One sidenote is ICE cars do catch fire: I don't know the numbers but did see an ICE car fire about 5 years ago on the hard shoulder, only just happened maybe 2 mins before, but was well on fire, during summer, within that time it had also caught the fence, tree and field on fire, fire brigade were about 1/2 mile away while I was driving past on the other side. No mention of it anywhere in any news. How often does that happen? And what are the common causes of a random ICE fire while driving along? I guess it's not news if it happens all the time..
This is a good scary presentation for sure.
I have been in the fire prevention industry for a number of years, if enough education of the public is done, of the causes of fires, most of us shouldn’t buy the furniture and mattress we all have in our homes, these are stuffed full of highly inflammable toxic foams. We shouldn’t wear those polyester fleece and puffer jackets, but we do.
There’s no question that EV batteries are highly inflammable when damaged but EV batteries like those in a Tesla has a Battery Management System (BMS)to regulate charging and temperature control to prevent thermal runaway, unless it has been physically punctured. That can’t be compared to an E-Scooter, these do not have BMS. Not all lithium batteries are the same or made the same either. Fires do happen even with gas cars, in fact there has been a lot of fires with gas vehicles and many deaths too.That doesn’t mean we should also not drive gas vehicles right? So education of firefighters and users and general public of lithium batteries fires is required like all new technologies introduced. Not many of us will give up our lithium batteries operated mobile phones, our computers and tablets etc. We need lithium batteries, the issue is how they are made, maintained and used.
these cars are not what they should be, dont waste money on mediocre , make them stop fooling around if they are gonna get your money.
concept car videos... how about a video on what you guys think is the ideal car? driving efficiently is speeding up especially on more downhill-ish roads at optimal fuel level and engine RPM(RotationPerSecond), steering and braking minimally but smoothly. optimal effiency for toyota 2.4 inline 4 is 2/3 pedal down in 2k-3k rpm, cvt hybrid maintain constant rpm. not sure whats best to do this in: sport mode, fuel level is more, in eco mode its less. use EV mode if optimal combustion level would speed car too much (often, if car isnt letting you do that without the EV mode, it wont let you us EV mode.) use it a bit from a stop for smooth acceleration then when car is rolling use combustion then maybe use it a bit more. smooth acceleration is part of putting less weight on tires at a moment because:
consider tire wear dust emissions and how much it cost to replace tires (most people are becoming increasingly even poorer than they already are and you can invest money into bigger money)like those "xenoestrogen endocrine disputing forever chemicals micro plastics" etc. apply less weight on tires and you'll allow more of that weight handling ability to be used for having more grip for endurance-race-pitstop-avoiding momentum preservation driving fun in the name of efficiency. being able to feel how close car is to its grip limit is good for this goal, similar to the lotus-car-enjoyers ideal.
hybrid cars are arguably better than electric car because they lower use of combustion and battery mass and all materials overall without adding so much weight. weight worsens road wear damage (repairs cost emissions , money etc) , worsens crash safety for all (except few rich people who can afford super safe cars in the small chance that they are involved in crash and value their lives and have lives we can value). this is why aptera motors originally made diesel hybrid, but now sells electric cars to max profits and reputation as a "environmentally friendly brand."
because batteries are not fully recyclable and combustion fuel is based on anaerobic bacteria that regenerates , which is why oil rigs go back to getting oil after abandoning the almost empty oil well years later . this is why arguably only combustion is proper, in rear mid engine weight distribution , rear wheel drive , with limited slip differential for minimal tire wear even in normal driver driving , for preserving momentum around turns more without too much slowing down by lateral (left /rights) g forces tires.
genetically better population is being replaced with one that is more likley to be less loyal to each other and more loyal to selfish elites, and even they probably will be replaced with others, until theres noone left except the elites and few servants. so even hybrid seems useless. so overpopulation isnt a problem so running out of materials by over use probably wont happen. can you prove climate change is caused by human caused co2 or that its just milkovitch cycle of earths magnetic field tilting etc causing stuff like the usual natural ice ages etc? also see blackgrock esg score and their climatechnge talk, and see how they promote nonsense with ot of money, see colbert report "how blagroc conquered theworld" etc . . about climat change, see tony heller, tom nelson, suspicious observers, youtube chanels. i haff to talk like this znezorshp reasons
to understand why so much nonsense if happening (in lot more ways than only car) see corbetts explaantion of climate crisis , "blackrock conauqered the world", federal reserve etc . ivor cumins, tony heller, magentic reversal news. vocational science of freedom how yoru assets are stolen from birth on odysee, yandex insteadfgoogle, , western governers university . "divine speech" by nouman ali khan and sharif randhawa tries to understand why to become muslim , as it is what the troublemakers seem to counter most.
Many fires in NYC apartment buildings are caused by tenants charging their electric bikes and scooters inside the apartment, displacing untold numbers of tenants. These cheap battery powered products use substandard battery packs which is why they are cheap to purchase. The societal effect is obvious.
I guess you mean like this one from NYC:
ruclips.net/video/JCaDz_2YcGQ/видео.html
Unfortunately, here in the UK, those scooters are legally termed as EV's, leading to disproportionate figures for EV fires being produced and reproduced!
Don't over-generalise. Some scooter/e-bike batteries are indeed shockingly engineered and are illegal to sell/import (or should be). But plenty are well-engineered. This is largely a matter of having some standards (which Europe certainly does already, and I presume the US does) and then enforcing them.
I like the way RUclips deleted my response, yet it remains in the count and they continue giving me responses to Shakespeare's comment.
@@jrstf Yeah that happens a lot now. We all get a very partial view of the comments made. Putting references into anything you say practically guantees that your comment becomes invisible/removed.
I witnessed a person at a hardware store franticly getting a cell phone out of his pocket after an explosion. It fell to the concrete and the battery departed. The size of the battery was small. About the dimensions of a matchbox but only ¼ inch thick. Loud hissing noise and the flames like a blow torch for 30 seconds. It was a real eye-opener and certainly made me have respect for the dangers that come along with Lithium batteries.
Excellent presentation, I have always wondered about the safety of domestic battery packs like the Tesla power wall, this confirms my suspicions, not in my house, ever.
It would be very interesting to hear a bit more about the behaviour of the different chemistries. LCO is way more exothermic than LFP, for example (and thus dramatically more likely to catch fire from typical damage). But maybe the gas cloud behaviour is quite similar? I don't know.
one of these with the wrong piece of code could easily be an intentional incendiary device.
Thank you.
Thank you for posting this it is highly informative and definitely provides much food for thought.
The problem is that the issue has long progressed beyond academia and science to politics and propaganda.
Education, the only course of action. i will be spreading the message, I will tell my children / grandchildren about the dangers, the poison gas, the explosion risk, that the smoke is flammable/poisonous and to run run run as a first response. Thank you Professor Paul for your brilliant lecture.
This needs way more views! Thank you very much for posting, more people should be aware of this presentation - this was very well explained and with very clear examples of all the hazards.
I wonder if the Professor saw the story of the Bouldercomble Tesla Storage fire in Australia. Took a few days to control, iirc
Thank you very much for giving me some clarity on the EV situation, i am kinda stunned by the lack of safety in the industry and the lack of concern for there own staff, it sure is an eye opener and a very scary one at that, Great work in highlighting the dangers
Sadly this video neglects to discuss the Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFe) cells, like those installed in half of the new Teslas sold last year. I would have appreciated seeing those "safe" chemistries discussed or at least mentioned.
Why safe in quotation marks in regards to Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries? What about sodium-ion or graphene batteries? ICE car fires are not fun either. We have tons of these every day.
@@lesp315 Yes there are ICE fires every day and the methods for putting them out are tried and tested. EV fires are MUCH more unpredictable and dangerous. What I find curious is why with all the evidence to the contrary staring you in the face, you still insist that EV are a viable replacement for ICE vehicles. You people really are a death cult.
@@lesp315
You are correct. The independent fire data out there confirms petrol cars are 20X more susceptible to catch fire than LNMC batteries, even more for much safer LFP batteries. Marine safety regarding lithium batteries has moved big time toward more stable LFP chemistry, for good reason. Misinformation often takes on the guise of professional presentations, ones that unfortunately exclude vital information.
@@lesp315Why do we need EVs in the first place? Please don't say climate change/global warming (Anthropogenic) because that's a lie .Do why do we need them ?
@@ub59I don’t think you were listening to the same presentation I was. It is not about stats and comparisons with ICE vehicles, it is the safety surrounding the battery technologies being deployed to the customers. I know it’s inconvenient to be critical of the battery solutions but facts are facts.
Excellent video.
Good points
It only takes one runaway to contaminate everything around it and that would include your lungs, your body, the water it takes to put the fire out, and the incineration of anything within reach of the 5,000 degree fire.
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Thank you! I am sharing this with friends and family.
Hi Please pass to colleagues and subscribe. see archive at www.tallbuildingfiresafety.com
don't, hes just a liar paid by the oil industry. So far I don't see him mention that EV's catch fire 65 times LESS than ICE's. 65 per 100,000 EVs catch fire per year VS 1,530 fires per 100,000 vehicles FOr gas powered cars. The oil industry is fighting against progress so they pay quacks like this guy to lie and scare you.
please take a look at our archive and conference at www.tallbuildingfiresafety.com
Glad to find stuff like this and see that not everyone is ignoring the dangerous that comes with lithium batteries in cars and other storage systems. For the past 5 years I have tried a few times to bring up issues with the batteries and also the lack of updating of building codes both for residential and commercial building. But 100% of politicians and even people in the building industry so far have no idea on the issues and dangours they pose still and given the massive rush to ban ICE around the world this will end up causing a lot of deaths and massive insurance costs because the battery tech is not safe for mass use and the infrastructure is not suitable for it. When I park in a multi story carpark or underground carparks and spot electric cars I go park outside even if the weather is crap. Also one simple fix would be on cars to have an emergency battery water deluge system that firefighters can hook a hose too and then pump water directly into the battery pack. It's a minor design change on the battery pack and then the hose connection to the outside of the car behind a flap just like opening up the fuel door and pumping fuel this simple fix means firefighters open/break open the water deluge flap/cover and then hook up a hose and then pump water directly into the pack to then control the fire and cool the pack. Regulators around the world need to work together to design (With emergency groups that have to use any system) the right type of system and connections and also rules on location of the port opening and so on. Also one other thing is location in cars for battery packs. Some do it right with the pack at least separated from the inside of the car yet other rushed to market electric cars that often where based on ICE designs place the packs inside the cabin eg under the rear passenger seats with little to protect the people inside the car from the packs if they decided to go up. Seeing how powerful and fast they can blow up that then means everyone inside the cabin is now at risk of severe burns but also long term lung damage and even eye damage from the toxic off gassing. Why and how manufacturers thought this type of design was a good idea is beyond me but then when regulators are all clueless then the rules are not there and all manufactures will try and take the cheapest solutions in this mad rush to meet deadlines set by clueless politicians and all other clueless regulators.
Excellent lecture
Similar arguments could be made for:
Petrol/gasoline powered cars.
Gas in houses for cooking/heating.
Chip pans.
The argument isn’t just safety.
Cost/benefit needs to be considered as well if you live in the real world instead of an academic in a bubble.
@fredbloggs5902 Your comment is simply NOT true. There is absolutely no comparison between an EV fire and an ICE fire.
@@1982nsu I said similar arguments could be made.
There’s 174,000 ICE car fires a year in the US.
@@fredbloggs5902"Gasoline is the most dangerous thing that the average person deals with on a regular basis". (in First World societies)
Yes. He likes scaremongering.
Starts at 01:00
My office have a hybrid solar system with two big battery packs.
I will now have to insist that we update our fire training to include this sort of scenario.
There have been 2 high profile multistory car park fires, the most recent being Luton Airport. In both cases the fires were started by a Diesel vehicle and in the case of the Luton airport fire 1,500 vehicles were destroy and the building is being demolished. EV fires do need to be responded to in a different way to fossil fuel cars, but with the correct training and equipment they can be dealt with effectively. As for the risk of an EV fire compared to a fossil fuel file, a study in the US has found that fossil fuel vehicles are 60 times more likely to catch fire than an EV. EV battery technology is also improving and becoming safer, so the risks are continuing to fall. If you are interested, look up Lithium Ion Phosphate and in particular the BYD Blade batteries. A comment from an interview with Paul Christensen "Concerns raised by Christensen highlight the lack of distinction between electric car batteries and other lithium-ion-powered vehicles, like scooters and bikes, which often have less safety regulation associated with their battery technology."
I'm driving around in an EV from 2002 now on a battery pack from 2017. How would that work if second hand EV batteries weren't available? If EV batteries became standardized and produced by a 3'rd party manufacturer, like Bosch makes generic parts for most cars today. It would be possible to buy certified new battery modules and generic control systems. However now. the EV industry is like the automobile industry a 100 years ago. Every car maker do their cars completely in house and use unique solutions for everything. Standardized battery systems would also make life easier for firefighters.
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@@TallBldgFireSafety Thanks, though I have no intent of getting home battery bank. I am using the original EV battery monitoring system, only the cells are different.
What's the verdict on LFP batteries. Are they just as dangerous?
I thought the same but I guess he's only talking about Lithium-ion, not Lithium-iron. Big oversight to not explain this
lfp are not the norm so that why he didnt mention
Just WOW !
Actually, if an EV is designed with an extinguishing port in the rear for pumping almost freezing brine into the battery enclosure on the end of a long lance, the freezing brine electrically discharges the battery and cools it.
Have they done any research into BYDs blade cells? These are meant to be significantly less flammable.
Thank you, great information and I hope it gets out to more people. I'm not surprised to discover such a high value presentation on a channel with only 189 subs; not a dig at this channel but a dig at the nefarious control of information occurring on this Earth.
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I should have been more specific: it's RUclips's algorithm. If you don't know how algorithms are used by social media platforms to push specific viewpoints while keeping others hidden, look into it. Fascinating stuff. @@user-uk8tl3xy9e
@@user-uk8tl3xy9e "Nothing to stop this going viral".... Except the RUclips "Suggested Video" algorithms that deboost its showing in results, google search deboosting, and Green-aligned mass media selectively ignoring such evidence b/c it goes against the narrative grain.
You are right - all mainstream media are heavily controled, for instance in my country denmark no media has mentioned the German and Dutch diesel protests at all it simply never happened, I could mention selveral other (political issues) you can easily test it yourself from your own country.
Everyone should see this.
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Could only recommend if they were given complete information, which this video does not. I do not recommend this to everyone, because of the lack of complete data.
I'm mostly agreeing with Paul, but not entirely. We've had a garage fire right across the street. It was in the back of the garage and the fire brigade DID GO IN! I'm Dutch. Our fire fighter ALL wear breathing apparatus. I'm a certified fire fighter myself. We don't work without 'air'. Where in a lot of countries around the world fighting a fire only means putting water on the outside of a building, we have a long history of going in and fighting the source. For the garage fire, there was made use of a special remte controlled vehicle to go in, locate the fire and drag the car out. If it had been an EV, it would have been put in a water filled container and left there until the batteries were safe to remove.
So there are specialized ways to fight ICE and EV fires, but they take a different approach and very well trained fire fighters.
For the rest I agree with Paul fullheartedly. If fly RC planes and use LiPo's for that reason. The small batteries I use (12-16V at 2-4kWh) can survive quite an impact, but IF they go, they go hard!
WEF AMF our Politicians Knows Our "Green" way forward 😎👏⭐️🖐
I gather these were all LiIon batteries: LiFePO4:cells are much less susceptible to thermal runaway, what’s the risk look like with those?
LiFePO4 is still a lithium-ion battery. Just with a different cathode. The risk of thermal runaway and fire is much lower. I don't know about the gases and wish Mr Christiansen had aid something about this.
@@xxwookeyjust do some searching here on RUclips, even setting the batteries on fire with a propane torch yields a very uneventful small fire. You'd get a better fire from a few sticks then from the battery.
There are probably hundreds of thousands of laptops in the US. I would think every one of them has a lithium ion battery of some sort. I wonder why they are considered safe and are not causing fires? Better manufacturing? Are they regulated better? Maybe some UL requirements that bicycle and car batteries aren’t required to have?
Energy density would be my guess, laptops don't actually need much energy, more expensive & dense energy storage would have more energy released.
@@jmanakajosh9354 laptops and phones may not have a lot of energy storage but it’s a very, very dense. One would expect lots and lots of small fires if lithium iron phosphate was such a bad battery chemistry.
@@jmanakajosh9354 Anyway, we need to figure it out. Soon!
I assume you remember the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 battery fires of 2016.
@@jrstf I had forgotten. Whatever their problem was, looks like they solved it!
Kinda handy to have the entire fire triangle in one package...
Wow just wow, and the government want us to all have one
run
Wonder if Tesla will give away free sneakers with every car ???
"You might be needing these Sir/Madam"
Valuable presentation. Excellent. Thank you.
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Was actually gathering details to build my own “power wall” from retired Tesla batteries. Not any more. I’ll go commercial and it will exist OUTSIDE in its own cement block room.
Thank you Paul for this vital information. Now I know why The Tesla share price is falling, and I am going to sell my EV asap!! Alex in Norway.
Why do we have to have the hellish music….TOO LOUD…
Wow. Thank you! This is an essential topic that requires massive public awareness. It is hugely worrisome as they electrify the world...I cannot imagine the destruction this will do to all forms of life and it's environment. No wonder our oceans are on fire....
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Our oceans are on fire because of fossil fuels burning FFS
It'll do an awful lot less destruction than continued use of fossil fuels will. All dangers are relative. The 'oceans are on fire' due to greenhouse gases, not battery fires.
Just checked. The oceans ARE NOT on fire.
@@aeroearth Not literally: it's a figure of speech - they are hotter than they have been for thousands of years. 90% of the warming ends up in the ocean, and from April last year ocean heat has been the highest since records began, and probably a long time before that too. Read Carbon Briefs "State of the Climate: 2023 smashes records for surface temperature and ocean heat" to get an idea of where we are at. Even allowing for El-nino temperatures were significantly higher than expected last year, and it's not yet clear why. This is what people are referring-to when they say 'The oceans are on fire'. It's shorthand for 'things are bad, the hottest they have ever been, and even hotter than modelling suggested they would be, which is also concerning'.
Wow! What a terrific presentation. So, I wonder how long before someone spills the beans and admits that it was a Lithium ION battery that caused the fire at Luton Airport last year. Most of us with some technical knowledge and eyes to see knew it was anyway. Is there any way to save our Country from continuing down this wrong road?
That was an excellent speech, very informative. Thank you so much.
Why are laptops and phones no longer considered dangerous?
They do explode, but good quality ones explode much less.
Not all EVs have pouch cells. Many use cylindrical form factors.
Because everybody has one.
Much smaller batteries, with enough surface area not to enter thermal runaway, as explained on the first slide. (and most stopped using LCO, which is the most exothermic technology).
It's to do with C rates. Load current. In a lappy you have a very narrow range of current draw - which is easy to regulate. Now when you go buy your Tesla Plaid - put your three mates in it and show off the Ludicrous button acceleration the electrical loads ramp up - commutatively - this obviously puts enormous loads on the BMS - then there's cell segregation. Almost non existent in a fixed load situation but hugely more significant under harsh acceleration
The recent fire at Luton airport and others have exhibited all the symptoms of thermal runaway due to other petrol and diesel vehicles literally adding fuel to the fire. Can we do something about that issue too please before the same thing happens to a tall building.
The Luton Fire was started by a Diesel Car there were NO EV's in that Car Park.
Thank you for using literally the right way
@@keithwilson1554 Nonsense. There is video footage of the car park clearly showing a Tesla. So that assertion is incorrect and it's highly unlikely that the Tesla shown was the only car in the whole car park with a Lithium car battery. There will have been mild hybrids, plug-in hybrids and full BEV's in there.
ruclips.net/video/XmGT5GcyRPw/видео.htmlsi=MnpqTUusrQEpRDAG
@@keithwilson1554 Various people have said it was a diesel hybrid even if its registered as diesel. If you see the CCTV of it starting it looks very much like a battery fire with roaring flames coming out horizontally from the side of the car. Diesel doesn't burn like that.
@@topmarques Well an English guy on RUclips found the MOT and it was clearly registered as a Diesel. It had an Advisory on its Brakes a few months before and if the owner didn't fix them this is what probably overheated and started the fire in the Front Wheel Arch area. Fire then spreads and most modern Petrol/Diesel Tanks are plastic so when the Fuel catches alight it can spread quickly to other cars and even run down to cars below in a Car Park. An EV battery fire doesn't spread beyond the vehicle its burning unless the cars around it are close enough to catch fire.
I'm a 65-year-old retired electronic tech. I have a man cave in the basement of my house here in Pennsylvania, USA. This is also my shop where I build small electronic gadgets. I use 18650 lithium batteries and had just purchased some new ones a month earlier and had one sitting on my bench under my big TV. All of the sudden, as I was watching TV, I heard a hissing and looked down and one of the batteries just spontaneously started to combust. I grabbed it with a towel and ran outside and tossed it on the ground. I couldn't believe it. Now I keep my Lithium batteries inside one of those fireproof lock boxes to provide more safety.
That’s why I’m moving my solar storage batteries into a purpose-built shed in the garden as soon as possible! Makes sense to have a vent to the outside just in case, it’ll prevent the shed bursting with the amount of gas liberated!
There should be a database of installed lithium batteries the fire brigade has immediate access to. Might help avoid unexpected encounters, especially if the battery hasn’t caused the fire but becomes involved.
Not true that heat is dissipated linearly. If it is radiative dissipation then it is a function of temperature to the power 4 (Stefan’s Law).
At high enough temperature.
Would like to know more specific info on type of Li Batteries. Lithium Iron Phosphate has a better reputation than other chemistries. Is it deserved?
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Could you be a bit more specific please. I found the PowerPoint slides for the presentation immediately prior to the one in the video where there is a slide comparing different chemistries. This shows LFeP with high safety compared to other chemistries. Any more detail?
From Spain, thanks to Dr Christensen
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We carry these in our pockets
Yup, most of us carry a lithium battery in our mobile phone. These are all over our homes. We dropped them often and after that we charged them up for use the next day. These are in our power tools and has been known to start fires at homes. It’s no exaggeration, google it if you will. It’s just not EVs, there are the Hybrids, the PHEV, those are lithium ion batteries too! Toyota is very big on hybrids.
27:24
Very selective Paul, no lithium iron-phosphate Blade batteries in your presentation??
Yeah, that aspect was disappointing. Perhaps he has another talk which covers this?
yes, he was being selective. he was talking about and showing the risks involved in ev batteries, especially to first responders. this was not a talk about which battery is best just what are the potential risks.
do you think a firefighter is going to cut up a scooter battery that is on fire to find out what type it is before dealing with the potential risks?
No he is just out to sensationalise what is either a non problem lr one being sorted out right now by new battery chemistries.@@xxwookey
But the new Iron phosphate batteries will stop this
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Li-FePO4 batteries are not new. They have been around for many years. ( F1 used them in 2009.) It is true that they are much less likely to suffer thermal runaway and should not catch fire. Many motorsport cars (including mine) with ic engines use them as 12V batteries to save a lot of weight c.f. lead-acid types. They have been bypassed by road vehicle manufacturers because their specific energy (joules/kg) is lower than chemistries like Li-NiMnCo. However Li-FePO4 batteries maintain their performance over many charge/discharge cycles and hold charge extremely well. So I agree that they are probably the safest bet albeit with reduced range for a given battery weight.
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@@raylohr8788 "Bypassed by manufacturers?" Doesn't Tesla use LiFePO4 batteries in the World's best selling automobile, the Tesla Model Y?
Hi Wilfred. Well Tesla started with 18650 format cells using NCA chemistry, then for the Model 3 moved to the slightly more energy dense NMC in larger format cells. More recently (after a number of fire/ explosion events in China) Tesla have switched for that market to LFP. In Europe most, if not all, OEMs are still on NMC chemistry which gives the best range for a given battery mass. We actually own a 120Ah i3 and have considered the risk carefully. So far in the uk just one i3 has caught fire. BMW have engineered an excellent BMS and actively control battery temperature. We only use a home charger 240V at 30A, never a commercial fast charger. Cheers.@@wilfredvanvalkenburgh2874
Simple solutions. Education and enforcing the same manufacturing standards used by cellphone battery manufacturers.
Ive been educated now, never will I own one, thanks
Why are you telling us that you can't afford a car? We don't care how poor you are. ;-)
Some people here are commenting that new battery tech is the answer. Can I ask what we do with the hundreds of thousands of EV's already on the road.
my Q to them is: How is technology going to change the laws of physics? We all know the answer
re: "Some people here are commenting that new battery tech is the answer." some people are suffering from Cognitive Dissonance (so they'll say anything to make themselves feel better). yeah, now let's read from the Wikipedia on how this works:
"A person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable and is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance. They tend to make changes to justify the stressful behavior, either by *ADDING NEW PARTS TO THE COGNITION* causing the psychological dissonance (rationalization) or by avoiding circumstances and contradictory information likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance..."
translation: this means a person will not only tell LIES to themselves...? but will also readily tell LIES to others (since they convinced themselves that they are sincere and truthful and thus NOT telling lies).
@@CosmicSeeker69 Q: How is technology going to change the laws of physics? A: exactly, it doesn't. Chemistry is going to continue to due everything it's been doing in the 13.8 Billion years since the BIG BANG (pun intended).
Q: Can I ask what we do with the hundreds of thousands of EV's already on the road(?) A: "RUN FORREST...!!!" (best young Jenny Curran voice)
@@CosmicSeeker69 You're right of course. We can only hope that someone makes nuclear fusion work and that a method of storing high volumes of energy in a safe and ultra compact way (like petrol/diesel) can be achieved. All of that, at a usable level, is probably 20-30 years away. So there goes Net Zero! Meanwhile we are missing the obvious and practical answer; make petrol/Diesel engines much more efficient. Just the savings in trying to electrify the planet would pay for all the research you could ever need to achieve it.
Two questions unanswered. 1 What are the safer battery chemistries and are some of the more modern ones safer? 2. What is the impact of Brine on a battery pack in runaway; the Norwegians are said to have had some success with this but even if the fire can be put out does that prevent later re-ignition?
not really unanswered the guy is talking about the dangers of ev batteries to fire departments and civilians, the type of battery does not matter when he is talking about what could happen.
It does indeed matter! We now have LFP batteries so this video is not correct anymore.
@@Sherukkanot really, charging LFP batteries when the ambient temp has dropped below zero is most dangerous
Thank you for making this vid available to every one.
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@@TallBldgFireSafety I don't use social media much, but have made a note of this vid and will be posting the link in comments on channels I follow. Thanks for the link.
I understand that F-500EA is effective against Li-Ion battery fires, and I see you used it on one of your suppressant tests. What was your experience with it please?
Fantastic presentation. Telling the brutal truth about Li-ion batteries. The crazy EVangests just will not accept the facts.
I accept the facts. I still think we have to move transport from fossil fuels to electricity. We don't really have a choice about that. We do agree that this was a very good presentation. Full of good wholesome facts, in fact.
Yet still lying through omission about the fact that we have LFP (LiFePO4) cells that do not exhibit ANY of the dangers that are presented here. Sure we need to do something about the garbage chemistry that is on our roads today, but he should have been pushing for manufacturers to use safe chemistry and value safety over energy density.
@@xxwookey EVs are powered by fossil fuels anyway, just at the power station. Renewables and nuclear can't even keep up with domestic requirements, never mind cars.
And why do we need to move away from them? Combustion vehicles are a drop in the ocean of our environmental problems, a lot of obsession over a minor issue. There are much bigger fish to fry on the environmental front, while people pretend they're being eco friendly because they're into EVs. It's all for show.
From the Seminar, it would appear that all Lithium Batteries are unstable. But there are billions of Lithium Batteries in Phones, Laptops, around the world. I read (recently), that there have been 464 (verified) EV Car Fires around the Globe. Considering that there are now 26 million EVs around the world, the % of EV fires is very low - when compared to ICE vehicle fires. How many (very modern) ICE vehicles today - have a plastic fuel tank?? I have to agree that any Lithium Battery Fire can be extremely dangerous, but (in life), we run risks every day. It is through the valuable work done by Dr. Christensen, we will have a much safer world, and hopefully overcome the issues with Lithium Battery Fires.
@@alkaholic4848 EV's are powered by the grid mix (or your own PV if you have it) which is lower carbon than the grid mix nearly everywhere. The grid carbon intensity is lower than fossil fuel intensity almost everywhere. e.g. in the UK it averaged 153gCO2e/kWh which is several times better than gas (~600-900, depending on leakage rates) or coal (850-1000). And the global grid was down to 436gCO2e/kWh at end 2022.
Transport is about 20% of emissions. Road transport is 70% of that. Combustion vehicles are not 'a drop in the ocean' - they are a very significant chunk of emissions which has to be tackled along with everything else.
In the US, the DOT needs to outlaw recall and dispose of EVs on an emergency basis. The fires are getting out of hand already. Just insanity we did this.
Nonsense. Far safer than petrol.
i dont know if its that bad but these cars are not what it should be, dont waste money on mediocre , make them stop fooling around if they are gonna get your money.
concept car videos... how about a video on what you guys think is the ideal car? driving efficiently is speeding up especially on more downhill-ish roads at optimal fuel level and engine RPM(RotationPerSecond), steering and braking minimally but smoothly. optimal effiency for toyota 2.4 inline 4 is 2/3 pedal down in 2k-3k rpm, cvt hybrid maintain constant rpm. not sure whats best to do this in: sport mode, fuel level is more, in eco mode its less. use EV mode if optimal combustion level would speed car too much (often, if car isnt letting you do that without the EV mode, it wont let you us EV mode.) use it a bit from a stop for smooth acceleration then when car is rolling use combustion then maybe use it a bit more. smooth acceleration is part of putting less weight on tires at a moment because:
consider tire wear dust emissions and how much it cost to replace tires (most people are becoming increasingly even poorer than they already are and you can invest money into bigger money)like those "xenoestrogen endocrine disputing forever chemicals micro plastics" etc. apply less weight on tires and you'll allow more of that weight handling ability to be used for having more grip for endurance-race-pitstop-avoiding momentum preservation driving fun in the name of efficiency. being able to feel how close car is to its grip limit is good for this goal, similar to the lotus-car-enjoyers ideal.
hybrid cars are arguably better than electric car because they lower use of combustion and battery mass and all materials overall without adding so much weight. weight worsens road wear damage (repairs cost emissions , money etc) , worsens crash safety for all (except few rich people who can afford super safe cars in the small chance that they are involved in crash and value their lives and have lives we can value). this is why aptera motors originally made diesel hybrid, but now sells electric cars to max profits and reputation as a "environmentally friendly brand."
because batteries are not fully recyclable and combustion fuel is based on anaerobic bacteria that regenerates , which is why oil rigs go back to getting oil after abandoning the almost empty oil well years later . this is why arguably only combustion is proper, in rear mid engine weight distribution , rear wheel drive , with limited slip differential for minimal tire wear even in normal driver driving , for preserving momentum around turns more without too much slowing down by lateral (left /rights) g forces tires.
genetically better population is being replaced with one that is more likley to be less loyal to each other and more loyal to selfish elites, and even they probably will be replaced with others, until theres noone left except the elites and few servants. so even hybrid seems useless. so overpopulation isnt a problem so running out of materials by over use probably wont happen. can you prove climate change is caused by human caused co2 or that its just milkovitch cycle of earths magnetic field tilting etc causing stuff like the usual natural ice ages etc? also see blackgrock esg score and their climatechnge talk, and see how they promote nonsense with ot of money, see colbert report "how blagroc conquered theworld" etc . . about climat change, see tony heller, tom nelson, suspicious observers, youtube chanels. i haff to talk like this znezorshp reasons
to understand why so much nonsense if happening (in lot more ways than only car) see corbetts explaantion of climate crisis , "blackrock conauqered the world", federal reserve etc . ivor cumins, tony heller, magentic reversal news. vocational science of freedom how yoru assets are stolen from birth on odysee, yandex insteadfgoogle, , western governers university . "divine speech" by nouman ali khan and sharif randhawa tries to understand why to become muslim , as it is what the troublemakers seem to counter most.
In the States they are pushing huge grants to buy EV school buses, one of these days, one of them will catch fire while the bus is on its route and I shudder to imagine what a bus full of kids with only moments to escape will result in, there have already been some fires, but they, so far, have only occurred while the busses are charging or are out of service. I believe the UK had three city busses burn up recently.
An EV school bus sounds horrible, but I also worry about the new Tesla cyber truck. They say the windows are resistant to breaking. Much like a hurricane rated window, you can crack it, but you can't get through it. Stupid car doors lock themselves now days as soon as someone puts it in drive, so people are driving around with locked doors and windows that don't easily break. If such a car/truck gets in a wreck, and ignites, the passengers better hope the doors can unlock manually (since electrical system might be nonfunctional), and they know where the manual unlock lever is, and they better hope they're alert and able bodied to be able to open the door and get out. If not, the by-standers will only be able to watch them burn. Passengers can sometimes be kids too, and this thought haunts me.
You seem to omit to mention that ICE school bus fires are a very regular occurrence and extremely dangerous. EV fires are far less frequent.
What about -20 degree brine systems? I believe the country developing them is Norway
Lithium Titanate and Lithium Sulfur chemistries do not go into thermal runaway. Toshiba have videos demonstrating this.
LFP battery is the future.
And LMNO
New batteries are coming out all the time.
@@fredbloggs5902 That's mad battery, will last 20 years on temperature controlled environment
@@Y2Kvids LFP is fine for cars, but for more advanced uses like planes a higher energy density is needed.
@@fredbloggs5902 Yeah. Planes would require some breakthrough.
Hydrogen is said but very hard to get needed power from it . Best fuel cells in the truck get about 150kw of power , that would Chew about 7 KG of hydrogen in an hour. It would also require battery buffer .
Maybe flying would be Drone like in the future, who knows 😄
I ask your advice. in S Africa we now have power outages up to 3x a day. One resident in this house earns his living by IT and is having difficulty with these outages. We bought a UPS set with 2 car-sized lead-acid batteries. They lasted about 2 months, and we were considering lithium-ion. Now we've seen your programme we are not so keen. Are the events you describe fairly common or real outliers? I shall be gratedful for your help.
Look into LFP chemistry. The presented didn't spend any time explaining various chemistries but some are safer than others
Wow! They don't often go wrong but when they do...... Should I have one at home?
this reminds me of Edison campaign against A/C
yeah batteries are more dangerous than gas 🤕
@@Eduardo_Espinoza Yeah, and AC is more dangerous than DC. According to Thomas Edison, who was fired from the train station in Indianapolis, where the comfab will be taking place. More irony.
"hahaha! I was just joking! you don't understand American humor do you pal?!"
such a goofball.
ya, DC power sources (e.g. batteries) can be dangerous stuff.
@@wilfredvanvalkenburgh2874
Insurance will be the death of EV's.
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But meanwhile you keep using the Lithium Ion NMC battery in your cell phone that you hold up to your head nearly everyday. Actually Tesla Insurance may be the death of automobile insurance as we know it. Ironic isn't it that Tesla makes the safest cars available today,and is posed to disrupt the automobile insurance industry.
@@wilfredvanvalkenburgh2874 I hate all lithium batteries and wish there were alternatives. What makes a Tesla so safe? I really don't know with safety being the last thing on my mind when buying a car. I feel its easier to just not crash.
Insurance is largely based on actual statistical risk not emotions, that's why the insurance is comparable to gassers
@@rp9674 For now, my use of the word "will" means in the future after these disasters burn down more things.
Damn this is way more dangerous than regular fires.
CORRECT.
You haven't seen a petrol fire then.
@@rogerphelps9939 Petrol fires can be put out easier and don't reignite though. I haven't seen a petrol fire start but have seen it put out quick
I think we really need to rethink the EV future.
EV's HAVE NO FUTURE, except for the 0.01% of the population who have to have the latest "fashion" thing at the Country Club on Sunday.
Really. Well ICEs have to be ditched otherwise our grandchildren are going to have a very hard time of it. EVs are far more environmentally friendly than ICEs. The risks of EV fires are far less than those of equivalent ICE fires and newdesigns will be even safer. EVs are still at the start of their development. EVs are the future. It is as simple as that.