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Why are the alarm bells not sounding? The New England Journal of Medicine published the study: “Psychosocial Functioning in Transgender Youth after 2 Years of Hormones”. The intent was to have 315 transgender youth that ranged in age from 12 to 20 extol the positive outcomes and benefits of cross-sex hormones. One problem: during this experiment there were two suicides among the participants. This puts the actual rate of suicide at 29X the rate of what is typical for this equivalent age range each year. This is astounding given the start of hormones is a highly desired intervention and generally creates a feeling of euphoria for the youth. Thie intervention is something the adolescent is anticipating and they often video record their personal experience as part of a gender journey. Yet here they document suicidal ideation as well as actual suicides.
So Sasha... you obviously support transition. Stella? You aren't disagreeing with her. I guess that means you do too. "We're just trying to help"... Guess what? You're not helping.
Please do a podcast on shame! My 16 year old daughter desisted this year but she’s feeling guilt and shame for wasting over 2 years of her life socially transitioning and identifying as a boy at school. When school started this year, she went back to using her birth name and that old identity is gone on the surface but for these kids, it’ll still be buried inside them until they have closure. She can’t wait to be done with high school and start fresh in college. Thank you both for what you do. You were a huge part in helping me get my daughter back! The only positive thing about this experience is we became very close and she talks to me about everything now ❤
She lost that time due to an unhealthy relationship with a boy. I imagine many other girls at her school can relate to that, the only difference is that in their case it was another person. I'm a 41 year old male but I was searching for my wife in high school but didn't meet her until I was 28. There can be a lot of loss while seeking love, even when we're trying to find it within ourselves. She's guaranteed to have a lifelong relationship with herself but it's far less likely the case with the people in the social interactions she missed out on.
A few years ago I read back through the diary I wrote age 16 and I was so angry at the way I blamed myself for not wanting a sexual relationship with my first boyfriend (he dumped me) that I burned it. I didn't recognise myself now as that person then. It's only after reading it that I realised how entirely distressed and lost I was then. I think relationship breakups are so commonly represented in media that I had a model to follow to move on - I went to college (6th form) and was extremely happy there, he went elsewhere and I left him behind. It's so hard when there is no 'breakup' - but maybe that's a helpful way for her to see it? And I know they're talking about not blaming the cult here but there are some great books, internet accounts etc from ppl who have done so that would maybe help? I really think the detransitioners are still inventing this new way of being themselves, we need to outsource narratives that kind of work in parallel to help with it. Maybe the story based therapy would help, I've forgotten the name of the woman who runs those sessions but it used to be up on Beyond Trans. Begins with an L!
Feeling bad about having made a mistake can be a very positive thing, although we often dwell in it. Forget gender; imagine being in a 15-year relationship with someone (no kids) and knowing almost all along it was bad, and it ultimately ended with both people regretting it. That's a 15-year hole in your life when you could have been meeting other people or doing other things. I think regret is fine, but we need to deal with it. If your daughter feels better now, well, maybe she needed to go through that process. The important thing is that she's healthy, fully functional, and only 16. It's not like a tattoo--when she does get to college, no one will ever need to know about any of it.
Autistic here 💁🏼♀️ And I can tell you the ability to hyper-focus is (one) of the biggest contributors to me being able to absorb so much of the information around this subject. I am at my best in so many ways, when I can dive into a subject and learn about. It’s always been that way, and the topics have been everything from horses, figure skating and psychology, to now: (since about 3 (ish) years back) the world of gender, sexuality, etc. - While horses are cute, and figure skating impressive, the questions around the subject you’re talking about, is so important on so many levels. Which adds to my interest in it. There’s obviously a sense of urgency in this, and I keep educating myself on it every day. Thank you so much for bringing awareness to this and for being a voice of reason. ❤
Speaking of things parents don't want to hear, and related to this video, I wonder if we could have an episode on estrangement. Cutting parents off seems to be a common endpoint of this single-minded focus on autonomy over other aspects of life. If parents are meant to stand back once the magic age/stage is achieved by the child, respectfully watching from a distance as they make these decisions, not interfering, stoically accepting that we must "leave them to their fate", improving ourselves by taking up hobbies and reflecting on how this has made us stronger, teach us how, because I assure you it's easier said than done. All I have seen for advice so far involves confessing to crimes I haven't committed, begging for forgiveness for doing the best I could. I'm hurting. This is unnecessary, and it's being normalized which is causing people to lose sight of how awful it is that families and the health of our children are being destroyed
You both are so brave and appreciated for speaking your truth from the wisdom of your personal and professional experiences. You help us realize that we have done our best to lovingly parent our children in extremely difficult societal circumstances within the context of our personal situations. While I was listening I remembered when our daughters were 13 and I said to the mom whose daughter influenced mine into FTM-dom, “I have no idea what’s going on in their heads.” Six years later I know a lot about the RODG phenomenon, but I still don’t know what’s going on in my daughter’s head and have no power over how she chooses to live her life. All I can do is hope that I did the best I could to equip her with resources to navigate life’s challenges.
Over the generations there has always been this attitude "what do the parents know", "boomers" etc dismissing parents knowledge and experience but it's almost like it's gone to the next level now, young people in society are being encouraged to lead in the parent/child relationship and it's being encouraged by schools, doctors, society as a whole, we've never seen this before. It must be very infuriating and humiliating for parents to be treated like this.
A Dutch philosopher analyzed a certain collective group think pattern during corona. The fearing crowd demands action, the politicians don’t know what a virus is so consult the virus experts (not other experts), the media loves problem solving experts that promise. The politician acts as the experts advice, the crowd is excited, finally politicians do something. But the virus didn’t leave, so again the same circle with more measurements. I describe this in my online comic as a variant of the unfortunate ant mill that occurs sometimes. Ants walking to death in a circle. You can plant this exact same pattern on genderism: experts discover a radical new method, the media and crowd are empathatic to the poor little child that finally can be helped by these fantastic new experts. The politicians sense they can win votes by pretending to be inclusive (and a fringe party that is against and also takes that position radical to get the antivotes). The school, the city, everywhere rainbowing,since this is great. After all crowd, media, politics, science all agree (apart from a small minority of conspiracy thinkers, trans regret, and counter experts that see wing issues (the ones interviewed on this channel)). Over time the alphabet grows and grows. Dutch protocol is such a success that they widen the restrictions. Non binary surgeory, rogd surgeory. Comorbidity? No problem we can solve! It’s the same ant mill again. This phenomenon is called a crowd formation (Le Bon, Freud, Baschwitz, Canetti, etc). When you disagree you are homophobic. Nobody dares to be that, unless you are the fringe anti-voter. So the brake is absent and the circular thinking process amplifies. Until it collapses. Tavistock.
It must be overwhelming and such a burden for the child to be the captain when the natural brain development makes kids want to put their hand in yours and trust that you are a good captain.
@@muppelmuh1445that can easily be countered: it’s also a burden for parents when the kid claims something and the school, media and experts have a tendency to affirm and not stay neutral and doubt at least strongly when the parents tells exactly the opposite of what the teenager is saying. 🤷♂️ One difference: their is caretaking for the child, not for the parents. The parents can pay for therapy in NL. Which is not possible for every family.
Parents are largely to blame for this by raising their children as peers rather than always maintaining a strictly parent-child relationship. If your daughter is your best friend, you have an unhealthy relationship with your daughter, and not only is it bad for your life, but it's probably stunting her social development as well.
As an ally to the non-medical cause, I go onto Twitter every day to bring myself into at least one conversation. I have switched from defense (providing links to debunk people) to offense (providing links to Genspect videos and information). I'd love a single link to a resource page of yours that serves 2 purposes: 1)Helps anyone trying to make sense of all this. 2) Helps break down the barriers between the trans activists and people who are trying to divert the conversation supporting non-medical care. For instance, today I directed a person to Genspect who was curious but at the same time, a person was arguing with irrelevant screenshots such as, FDA Approval of Lupron but they didn't give the source or that it was for precocious puberty. I could participate in more conversations if I could provide a single link and move on. I've applied to X to become a community notes contributer as well, and I'll be using your resources as much as possible when not using sources such as Wikipedia, the NIH, etc. I love your work and I pray for you, in spite of not being religious. ❤🙏
You guys talk about how the AGP boys may not be ROGD because they're AGP... But from what I have read and heard about AGP --especially the latest Transparency podcast by the Aarons-- it can cause gender dysphoria, but it isn't like the "old school transexuals" whose gender dysphoria began in childhood. A teenager or boy can have an autogynephilic tendency or paraphilia, but not have gender dysphoria and not even be gender non-conforming outside the space where he fantasizes about being a girl/woman, or taking on certain accoutrements of womanhood/femininity, etc., AND develop a rapid onset or late onset gender dysphoria. He can grow to reject his masculinity, his body, his sex, his genitals, the sex stereotypes assigned to him as a male (the male gender identity), through the internalization of social messages and social cues, online community formation and discovery, the realization that he "can transition" and embody his fantasy permanently, he can become obsessed and ruminate constantly about gender, when before, he didn't do this at all, but simply, um, indulged in his private, personal, intimate autogynephilic practices or fantasies (whatever they were). So I wouldn't separate AGP from ROGD, but instead contemplate that AGP is one path into ROGD. Or is that totally wrong?
You are spot on. This discussion is missing so much information. Listening to male detransitioners, you can totally understand the connection to porn that involves AGP'S. Boys are going to always be curious about porn especially when it involves dark subjects. The ROGD group knows how the internet sucks in those nonconforming boys. I would suggest these two do their homework a little better before confusing more parents.
I have heard Sasha and Stella use such terms as "pre-gay kids" and "kids who will grow up to be gay." So cleary you are skilled at being very precise with language and have been trained to avoid labelling children, even if it comes to the LGB sexualities. So why then "AGP kids"? What is the purpose and where are you heading with this?
"AGP kid" should not be an expression used by a therapist. Not every porn-fueled thought or fantasy needs to become a label for a child, whose sexuality is still developing. Frankly, all of this is insane.
AGP exists in children, it's a kind of orientation like being straight or gay or bi. How young do you think kids start to understand their orientation? I understood at 12, but looking back there were indicators before that. Orientations aren't just about sex, we have just focused on that for cultural reasons. A kid can have signs of AGP, will it persist, perhaps or perhaps not but atypical kids of all types exist and they do need relevant support of some kind
More thoughts on this video! I know that the FTM side is the most dominant in the conversation right now, especially regarding ROGD; I can't really speak to the FTM experience, but from the MTF side...I think that for adolescent boys who begin to cross-identify as girls, there is probably so much more to it than just "AGP" or "HSTS" per Blanchard typology. I'm sure those are real phenomena, but in terms of understanding and addressing the etiology of MTF trans-identification, I think those are the "low hanging fruit". I think if an adolescent boy is cross-identifying as a girl and it does not seem to be a case of ROGD, then my hypothesis would be that it is likely caused by complex trauma (e.g. child abuse and/or neglect). I am 100% against childhood or adolescent transition, but I think if counselors had the opportunity to really figure out and work on the underlying causes of the child's cross-identification, they could help to avert a lifetime of major depression and anxiety and all of the other issues, including risk of transition regret. I know this is currently considered by some to be "conversion therapy", and perhaps still- transition might be the most effective treatment in the long run. I really don't know. I can only speak for my own experience, and despite the fact that I struggled for so many years, I am somewhat grateful for those years, because I am now confident in my transition, and mature enough to have ownership over the decision and to consent to the risks. Thank you!
Great episode, as ALWAYS. So helpful to communicate to us parents all the layers that we might be missing in ourselves as we try desperately to help our children. Specific feedback: the wording of “gender diverse.” Slippery slope here to validating the notion of gender as something innate and separate from biological sex. It has been said that there are over 7 billion “genders” because every person in the world has a unique personality comprised of infinite combinations of stereotypically male and female characteristics amongst other traits. If we say “gender diverse” instead of male or female with a unique personality, or just gender dysphoric, or from your book title, “people who say they’re trans,” then we are falling into the trap of proposing that if people’s “gender” variation does not match their biological sex, then their bodies can/should then be tinkered with. And “tinkered” is quite the euphemism, right? Five years ago, I ventured out into the shaky territory of discussing sex with my then 15 year-old who was insisting on a double mastectomy because I wanted to make sure she experienced her erogenous zones before cutting them apart. I also wanted to know if there was sexual trauma behind her very sudden hatred of her body that seemed to be exceeding the age-old teen girl discomfort that is now so horribly given a new escape hatch through “gender affirming care.” And to the notion that all teens and young adults presenting with gender dysphoria or a trans identity might not be ROGD and therefore might be more likely to benefit from transition…Yes, admittedly, I am “peaked” and don’t believe in medicalizing inner feelings, personality variations, or reactions to societal limitations either around sexual orientation or restrictions on/abuse of the sexes. So, with that caveat…AGP individuals could perhaps be helped to accept their sexual orientation (as Phil Illy proposes classifying it) of attraction to themselves as female without altering their body in ways that I believe older transitioned people who are being honest say are harmful - fake vaginas prone to infection and hormones that kill the sex drive anyway and increase the likelihood of cancers and mood disorders. As I understand it, gender medicine has been offered to younger and younger people for many reasons, but one central important one stands out- that older transitioned people were actually NOT doing well. So the reasoning was, let’s transition people earlier so they can pass better, as it was believed (hoped?) that their low functioning and unhappiness were due to not “passing.” But the recent study by Littman, O’Malley, Kerschner, and Bailey strongly suggests that many more complex factors lead people to regret their transitions.
Great podcast, I am learing a lot from this channel. It is a shame I only discovered it this week and I have been a parent of ROGD for over 3 years 😢. Is there any parents group (with more comperhensive views rather than affirming) in Ireland I could join?
We are glad you found us and sorry it took so long. We'd love to hear any insights you might have on why it took so long as we are trying really hard to figure out how to reach people who need this podcast and still don't know it exists. In answer to your question about parents groups-Sasha and Stella both have parent coaching groups. You can find the links in the show notes. That might be a great place to start and then from there you might be able to find information about in person groups, as well.
Bayswater Support Group and ourduty.group are both UK based. Also Gender Dysphoria Support Network and Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans (PITT) are both for parents
A parent's process will unfold at its own pace, in its own way, and it will be as unique as the parent going through it. It may include a need to vent on social media or jump into activism, and it will definitely include much time spent desperately seeking answers. I judge no parent on the route they take or the destination they arrive at. May we all ultimately find peace and self-forgiveness.
This episode of the podcast really hit hard for me. Especially the part about "swat team" parents. My parents were hardcore isolationists and kept me in that "Rapunzel tower" for my entire childhood and I believe it led me to take up a trans identity. And thats despite the fact it was meant to protect me. Going to far into the isolationist realm can definitely cause more problems than it solves.
Another powerful episode ladies. My 2 cents: Gender distress is not the individual child’s issue, it’s a family issue- A family of unique members already whole and complete. No one needs to be fixed. That being said, each may have their own adaptive strategies around gender distress and guidance is appropriate for all. It involves disruption of our patterned adaptive behaviors (internal and external actions) to move toward the family dynamic we seek.
Good question. Honestly I think given societal norms and my current understanding, having AGP must be an incredibly difficult issue for the individual and their families, yet I’m still inclined to see AGP as a behavior that is separate from an already whole individual. Can it be “fixed” or managed? I don’t have that expertise.
Some thoughts while listening on my walk this morning....I am the mother of a TIF, and I have no sons (at least not one without a vagina. heh!). I have often thought that somehow a transitioning son would be even more heartbreaking, than the daughter I am dealing with now. I don't know if this is a common thought of mothers of TIF's or not? Or if it's a very sexist way of thinking? In any case, it seems like AGP is really on the rise, as well as ROGD. And while I agree they don't necessarily seem to be the same thing, I can't help but come back to the source of all of this springing from the *power of suggestion*. Would we be seeing the rise in AGP as well as ROGD if these kids had never come across it in porn or social media? Are these AGP boys truly born AGP? I have a hard time believing it, but I admit there is a lot I don't understand. To me it seems so obvious what internet influences have done to our very impressionable and vulnerable kids. I think the "power of suggestion" is, well, so VERY freaking powerful. I just finished watching "Escaping Twin Flames", another documentary on an online cult on Netflix and it's frightening to see how easily rational seeming people are influenced by such idiocy. At the end of the docuseries they report that there are over 10,000 cults operating in the U.S. now and that since the pandemic, online cults have grown significantly (sidenote: it also ends up being a trans affirming show, citing the 1% regret rate of medicalized transgender people). I really just don't think enough attention is spotlighted onto how kids are getting into all of the mental health problems - including gender dysporia and AGP - anywhere. The free internet has been a shitshow for our kids. Perhaps all of humanity??
I do think it's important to include trans adults in these conversations because this impacts them, too. They have lots of experience. I have had an FtM friend for 27 years (I've known him since I was a teen). His perspective is helpful. I also was a very active part of the LGBT community myself. I was a dancer. Both of my daughters have ROGD, but each for some similar reasons, and some very different reasons. I thought maybe my older daughter really might be trans. Now she loves skirts, favorite color is pink, wears make-up, extremely feminine, and has mythical creature identities, loves her body, autistic, still thinks she's trans. My younger daughter was adamantly a girl, but did not like developing a very curvy body. They are both giggly teen girls. Nearly all of their friends are trans identified. Many were put on T as teens, and 1 had a double mastectomy, all feminine girls. It's become normalized for teen girls to medicalize to look like "a boy in a dress."
Wouldn't a "data-obsessed" autistic parent with an autistic ROGD child be operating exactly on the autistic child's wave-length? An autistic parent who is sways by facts and not feelings is likely to have a child who will respond to facts, not feelings. Overall, even if the child is not "data-obsessed", knowing the facts is essential to their process of finding themselves on their quest of identity search. I'm a bit taken aback by your insistance, here and elsewhere, that conveying facts and research to teens is a bad idea. It seems to me that you are going along with infantilising teens.
An AGP child is to be contended with, just as an AGP adult is to be contended with? First of all, why are you labeling children as perverts? AGP should be an adult diagnosis. Second, why are you treating AGP tendencies in teens as permanent? Why do you not address grooming and porn? Since when AGP is an inborn sexuality that needs to be contended with in kids and teens?
Thank you @badgerravens408. I am glad someone is speaking up for these boys. So Stella and Sasha wonder why parents don't trust psychotherapists? Hmmm🤔
Are you aware there were people called transvestites in the past who had similar behaviours starting in childhood/adolescence? They were never encouraged to be like that and they had no internet but they existed none the less. They were harmless people who lived secret lives of shame. I'm not sure what help there is in calling such people perverts?
Where are the stats to back up your theories Stella and Sasha? BTW, transition is slowly being proven to NEVER be the best solution. You haven't figured that out yet? Hmmm🤔
How should you tell the parents? First of all... AGP is NOT a sexual orientation. It's a learned deviation. Find out where and how it manifests. Maybe start with facts first.
Such a helpful episode. I think there is a lot of pressure on those of us living in the U.S. to go the nuclear option - cutting off all our child's online devices and all their "toxic" friends. As well-meaning as this is, our children are likely using trans-identification as a coping mechanism. It's usually not wise to take away a coping mechanism without replacing it with something else (and if they are teens, it can't just be the parents.) Our kids live in the world and for some reason trans-identification makes some kind of sense to them. I also appreciated that there are some families paralyzed from taking any action at all. That's not helpful either, you must communicate your thoughts and values. It's such a tricky, trickly balance, figuring out what our particular child needs. There are many paths into this mess, so by necessity there will be many paths out. Beware of the overly simplistic, one size fits all answer. Thank you, Stella and Sasha.
I know this will sound fanboy-ey but can we have some like "therapy is cool" shirts with the GWL logo on them please. I know that specific line has been over used but maybe a good line form on of the episodes :D
Shame is not essentially, always, a negative emotion, and it is often related to feeling embarrassed when knowing, or thinking, that others think ill or us, that others have judged us and found us wanting, that others know, or believe, something bad about us, that others know that we misbehaved or violated a social norm, a moral boundary, etc. Guilt is an emotion related to something that one has done (or thinks one has done), and it can be horrible and cause a person to feel shame, on top of the guilt, but I wouldn't separate them as "guilt good", "shame bad", because they can both be useful in making a person avoid a behavior that is harmful to the community (speaking in broad terms here), or they can be maladaptive and negative if they paralyze a person. I think "shame" gets a bad rep in the contemporary world, and I am not sure why... guilt, however, gets a good rep, and that is more puzzling still.
Moderator here... I think Stella is using the guilt/shame definitions that Brené Brown uses where guilt is tied to "I did something bad" and shame is tied to "I AM bad." In this case, guilt can be positive because if someone did something bad they can apologize or try to do something different next time, there is agency in guilt. Whereas if shame is related to who you are as a person then you feel you have no agency, you are just bad. I believe this is what Stella meant, of course, there are other interpretations of these words, and yes, both can be used in harmful ways against others and the self.
Thanks for another great episode full of wise guidance. My son is 23 and I don’t know ( I don’t think he knows either), if he is RODG or AGP, but he is very woke, and he currently believes both of those terms are not real. So therefore, he is not learning anything about what his condition actually is … he just says he’s trans and wants hormones and doesn’t wanna talk about anything else. So therefore I feel like I have to do this research ( also for my own need to understand) and thankfully he is looking at some of the videos I send, even though he’s still too woke to open his mind to realistically sort out what’s really happening with him. He has had no sexual experience and says he’s bi… am I wrong to think that once he does get a little sexual experience that he may open his mind to these views?
I'm reading your comment here and wondering if it's possible your son has internal/external homophobia....saying your bi is quite often a first step to admitting your gay. I hope he gets the support that he needs to work his way through this, at 23 years old though he is an adult. It sounds like you are being as supportive as you can and it does sound like he's not completely shut you down which is obviously a good thing.
Does he have any passions or hobbies? It seems like a lot of these kids haven't spent much time enjoying real life. Just phones, computers and video games. It's difficult to develop a healthy relationship with ourselves if we never spend any quality time alone and with others while being fully present. He might benefit from a decent dose of psilocybin mushrooms. 💚
@@Engrave.Danger yes thanks, I recommended that kind of medicine could help, and he is thinking in it! He used to play instruments and liked to be with friends … but since pandemic it’s all about trans. Online life with lots of gaming. He still reads a lot but it all just pro transgender books.
@@MiniT-x8q maybe? But lately says he leans more toward identifying as lesbian, ugh. So who knows, time will tell… I just wish under 25 was not allowed to have any medicalization
Ah, Stella. I agree with you 90 percent of the time, but when I disagree, I disagree A LOT. Social media is a cesspool, especially for adults. There's absolutely no point in fighting any culture war there. Social media is like World War I--it seemed important at first, but after years and year and years and year and years of no progress, everyone is realizing it's just a huge waste of time, effort, and energy. Plus there are way too many casualties.
Fantastic episode. I love listening to you both talk! I am so grateful that you dive into the details like this. Near the end of the episode, Sasha was talking about how to work with parents of children for whom transition seems to work, and who pursue it as a long-term "strategy". I really like this phrasing of transition. I consider "gender dysphoria" to be a chronic mental illness (I don't think I'm saying anything controversial, but maybe), that likely manifests due to numerous different reasons. I don't think it's necessarily all about discomfort with secondary sex characteristics either- I think that the DSM definition is too narrow in this regard. I think that its probably more a psychosocial phenomenon. I think that under certain circumstances, transition can be a good strategy to manage it. I know people would argue against that, and say "treat the mind, not the body"; there are also the arguments surrounding women's spaces, and sports, and the argument that transition reinforces gender stereotypes or erases homosexuality...I don't know how to address all of these issues. But I think for some people (like myself) transition can have an incredibly positive effect on their mental health. I don't know how or why- and I'm not sure it matters how or why. I struggled with my mental health my entire life, I have been on and off antidepressants, in and out of counseling, self-medicating with drugs and alcohol, I had one pretty bad episode of self-harm, and suicidal thoughts...then I decided to transition, and after several months or a year, my mental health improved significantly. These past 2.5 years have been the best of my life; gender stereotypes be damned. This is my one life, and if transition is what it took (for whatever reason), then this is the strategy I choose, and am grateful that I did. I feel really bad for parents dealing with this issue now. I am really grateful for the work that you do. Thank you for reading all this! 💜 -Jen
Honest questions. What do you think you transitioned to? Do you think your transition allows you be classified as a woman or just a different way to be a man and be comfortable in this world? Do you use women's spaces? If you do, why?
@@aliciaochs Hello there. I refer to myself as a transwoman, or just trans, and definitely not woman or female. I am a feminine male, I take cross-sex hormones, and have had a female sex hormone profile for over 2 years now. I attempt to present and be seen as a woman in the world. I think most people can tell I am a male, but more and more often people refer to me as "miss" or "ma'am" in public, so the changes must be working. I use gender-neutral, or single-occupancy restrooms, except in very rare cases where that has not been an option. In those cases I have used the women's restroom, or the men's room depending on the circumstances. I do a lot to avoid using sexed spaces, but it's not always possible. I have been undergoing this in order to attempt to resolve significant mental health issues that I have been dealing with my entire life. I feel grateful that it has helped me significantly. 💜
@@jeng3609 Thank you for your response. While I can have compassion that you have a difficult condition to contend with, I absolutely think no one born male should be using women's spaces. Hard no, no exceptions. Now that the medical community is creating illusions of perception. Some work, some don't. Society needs to come up with solutions that do not compromise the rights of women/girls for their spaces. Our perception of who is male and female gets distorted when the medical community is doing this. Whether this should even be a thing is another subject entirely.Too many think "passing"..is the condition. Who decides who passes? Why should that be a consideration? We need 3rd spaces. Men/boys with issues about their sex should be respecting women/girls. They cannot be us.
At 55:51 for once I think Sasha and Stella bring up a very important point more of the typical listeners here need to deal with if they want to maintain a relationship with their child, but the moment you need to drop the "ROGD" cultism and move in to acceptance needs to be when your child pursues medical transition for themselves and they're of age of medical consent (Typically 18 in the US, but it's 16 in some states and most of Europe). At that point, like it or not, they're an adult with the capability to make their own medical decisions, and the more you push against them at that point, the harder it will be to ever re-establish a relationship moving forward. What these parents aren't considering is that eventually they will have to learn to accept the fact their child is Trans and support and respect them, and the longer you take to do that, the harder it will be for your child to then accept your years of rejection if they are ever able to reconcile with it at all. I can tell you from my personal experience that it took around 5 years for my own mother to come to terms with me from the point I began medical transition, which was a few years after GRS. At that point she tried to re-establish a relationship, but I had so much pent up resentment towards those years of rejection that it took me another 5 years to come to terms with what she'd done and accept and forgive her. She may have only spent 5 years rejecting my identity, but it ended up costing her a whole decade of a lost relationship which is now finally stronger than ever and we're both incredibly thankful for. Bottom line is if your child is medically transitioning and they're of age of medical consent, it's time for you to learn to accept reality and find a way to do that without further alienating your relationship with your child, be it through therapy or any other coping methods you need to resort to. If your child is 23 and you're still attributing it to "ROGD", you REALLY need a serious wake-up call unless you intend to completely sever the relationship with them permanently. If they've been medically transitioning and you're still in "ROGD" mode and claim they're more deppressed and unhappy, maybe start considering that this is just how they feel around you due to how you treat them and not the result of medical transition.
I would be very hesitant to call a child's role play AGP bc. the sexual aspect would be missing. For similar reasons you don't apply the term "psychopath" to a child with psychopatic tendencies. Other than that I appreciate your compassionate support of parents.
60 Minutes,CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBC, all news agencies MUST share this information (there is so much more than 2mins. can depict!) Plus this news reader is terrible - seemed distracted and should have read the WPATH FILES in preparation. She is missing taking a lead on the BIGGEST medical scandal of all time.
disappointing to see condemnation in the comments for honest discussion of AGP. AGP is probably the biggest driver of the increase in teen boys wanting to be girls. Many AGPs report pre-pubertal exciting experiences trying on girls' clothing etc, but it doesn't really kick in until the testosterone surge at puberty. They used to come out in middle age, but now they're coming out in their teens. Porn doesn't make them AGP, it's that AGPs like sissy porn. Is sissy porn likely to speed up their desire to transition? My guess would be yes. Are AGPs who might've settled for cross dressing now being transed unnecessarily? My guess would be yes. Tired of the sanctimonious bullshit on this issue. Do the damned reading.
Certain people can't understand that these types of issues always existed. Generally these people were "transvestites" in the past and they hid women's clothing from family and wives, living a secret life in extreme shame. Some people don't believe these circumstances arise naturally without encouragement and they don't understand that atypical people were horribly isolated pre-internet. Some people are very simple-minded about these things and get into weird conspiracy theories. I feel sorry for their kids, I'm not sure how you could have mature conversations with those parents. Being pro-transion in all cases is definitely bad but being someone who would send your kid to conversion therapy type things is bad too.
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Why are the alarm bells not sounding? The New England Journal of Medicine published the study: “Psychosocial Functioning in Transgender Youth after 2 Years of Hormones”. The intent was to have 315 transgender youth that ranged in age from 12 to 20 extol the positive outcomes and benefits of cross-sex hormones. One problem: during this experiment there were two suicides among the participants. This puts the actual rate of suicide at 29X the rate of what is typical for this equivalent age range each year. This is astounding given the start of hormones is a highly desired intervention and generally creates a feeling of euphoria for the youth. Thie intervention is something the adolescent is anticipating and they often video record their personal experience as part of a gender journey. Yet here they document suicidal ideation as well as actual suicides.
So Sasha... you obviously support transition. Stella? You aren't disagreeing with her. I guess that means you do too. "We're just trying to help"... Guess what? You're not helping.
You should listen to more episodes. You are jumping to black and white conclusions
Please do a podcast on shame! My 16 year old daughter desisted this year but she’s feeling guilt and shame for wasting over 2 years of her life socially transitioning and identifying as a boy at school. When school started this year, she went back to using her birth name and that old identity is gone on the surface but for these kids, it’ll still be buried inside them until they have closure. She can’t wait to be done with high school and start fresh in college. Thank you both for what you do. You were a huge part in helping me get my daughter back! The only positive thing about this experience is we became very close and she talks to me about everything now ❤
She lost that time due to an unhealthy relationship with a boy. I imagine many other girls at her school can relate to that, the only difference is that in their case it was another person.
I'm a 41 year old male but I was searching for my wife in high school but didn't meet her until I was 28. There can be a lot of loss while seeking love, even when we're trying to find it within ourselves. She's guaranteed to have a lifelong relationship with herself but it's far less likely the case with the people in the social interactions she missed out on.
Yes! Episode on shame!
A few years ago I read back through the diary I wrote age 16 and I was so angry at the way I blamed myself for not wanting a sexual relationship with my first boyfriend (he dumped me) that I burned it. I didn't recognise myself now as that person then. It's only after reading it that I realised how entirely distressed and lost I was then. I think relationship breakups are so commonly represented in media that I had a model to follow to move on - I went to college (6th form) and was extremely happy there, he went elsewhere and I left him behind. It's so hard when there is no 'breakup' - but maybe that's a helpful way for her to see it? And I know they're talking about not blaming the cult here but there are some great books, internet accounts etc from ppl who have done so that would maybe help? I really think the detransitioners are still inventing this new way of being themselves, we need to outsource narratives that kind of work in parallel to help with it. Maybe the story based therapy would help, I've forgotten the name of the woman who runs those sessions but it used to be up on Beyond Trans. Begins with an L!
Libby Nugent. She might know a good narrative that deals with shame.
Feeling bad about having made a mistake can be a very positive thing, although we often dwell in it. Forget gender; imagine being in a 15-year relationship with someone (no kids) and knowing almost all along it was bad, and it ultimately ended with both people regretting it. That's a 15-year hole in your life when you could have been meeting other people or doing other things.
I think regret is fine, but we need to deal with it. If your daughter feels better now, well, maybe she needed to go through that process. The important thing is that she's healthy, fully functional, and only 16. It's not like a tattoo--when she does get to college, no one will ever need to know about any of it.
Autistic here 💁🏼♀️ And I can tell you the ability to hyper-focus is (one) of the biggest contributors to me being able to absorb so much of the information around this subject. I am at my best in so many ways, when I can dive into a subject and learn about. It’s always been that way, and the topics have been everything from horses, figure skating and psychology, to now: (since about 3 (ish) years back) the world of gender, sexuality, etc.
- While horses are cute, and figure skating impressive, the questions around the subject you’re talking about, is so important on so many levels. Which adds to my interest in it. There’s obviously a sense of urgency in this, and I keep educating myself on it every day.
Thank you so much for bringing awareness to this and for being a voice of reason. ❤
Speaking of things parents don't want to hear, and related to this video, I wonder if we could have an episode on estrangement. Cutting parents off seems to be a common endpoint of this single-minded focus on autonomy over other aspects of life. If parents are meant to stand back once the magic age/stage is achieved by the child, respectfully watching from a distance as they make these decisions, not interfering, stoically accepting that we must "leave them to their fate", improving ourselves by taking up hobbies and reflecting on how this has made us stronger, teach us how, because I assure you it's easier said than done. All I have seen for advice so far involves confessing to crimes I haven't committed, begging for forgiveness for doing the best I could. I'm hurting. This is unnecessary, and it's being normalized which is causing people to lose sight of how awful it is that families and the health of our children are being destroyed
You both are so brave and appreciated for speaking your truth from the wisdom of your personal and professional experiences. You help us realize that we have done our best to lovingly parent our children in extremely difficult societal circumstances within the context of our personal situations. While I was listening I remembered when our daughters were 13 and I said to the mom whose daughter influenced mine into FTM-dom, “I have no idea what’s going on in their heads.” Six years later I know a lot about the RODG phenomenon, but I still don’t know what’s going on in my daughter’s head and have no power over how she chooses to live her life. All I can do is hope that I did the best I could to equip her with resources to navigate life’s challenges.
My favourite time of the week. Thank you Stella and Sasha for your compassionate and nuanced insights. PS you both are wearing your best colors!
Over the generations there has always been this attitude "what do the parents know", "boomers" etc dismissing parents knowledge and experience but it's almost like it's gone to the next level now, young people in society are being encouraged to lead in the parent/child relationship and it's being encouraged by schools, doctors, society as a whole, we've never seen this before. It must be very infuriating and humiliating for parents to be treated like this.
A Dutch philosopher analyzed a certain collective group think pattern during corona. The fearing crowd demands action, the politicians don’t know what a virus is so consult the virus experts (not other experts), the media loves problem solving experts that promise. The politician acts as the experts advice, the crowd is excited, finally politicians do something. But the virus didn’t leave, so again the same circle with more measurements.
I describe this in my online comic as a variant of the unfortunate ant mill that occurs sometimes. Ants walking to death in a circle.
You can plant this exact same pattern on genderism: experts discover a radical new method, the media and crowd are empathatic to the poor little child that finally can be helped by these fantastic new experts. The politicians sense they can win votes by pretending to be inclusive (and a fringe party that is against and also takes that position radical to get the antivotes). The school, the city, everywhere rainbowing,since this is great. After all crowd, media, politics, science all agree (apart from a small minority of conspiracy thinkers, trans regret, and counter experts that see wing issues (the ones interviewed on this channel)).
Over time the alphabet grows and grows. Dutch protocol is such a success that they widen the restrictions. Non binary surgeory, rogd surgeory. Comorbidity? No problem we can solve!
It’s the same ant mill again. This phenomenon is called a crowd formation (Le Bon, Freud, Baschwitz, Canetti, etc).
When you disagree you are homophobic. Nobody dares to be that, unless you are the fringe anti-voter. So the brake is absent and the circular thinking process amplifies. Until it collapses. Tavistock.
It must be overwhelming and such a burden for the child to be the captain when the natural brain development makes kids want to put their hand in yours and trust that you are a good captain.
@@muppelmuh1445that can easily be countered: it’s also a burden for parents when the kid claims something and the school, media and experts have a tendency to affirm and not stay neutral and doubt at least strongly when the parents tells exactly the opposite of what the teenager is saying. 🤷♂️
One difference: their is caretaking for the child, not for the parents. The parents can pay for therapy in NL. Which is not possible for every family.
Parents are largely to blame for this by raising their children as peers rather than always maintaining a strictly parent-child relationship. If your daughter is your best friend, you have an unhealthy relationship with your daughter, and not only is it bad for your life, but it's probably stunting her social development as well.
As an ally to the non-medical cause, I go onto Twitter every day to bring myself into at least one conversation. I have switched from defense (providing links to debunk people) to offense (providing links to Genspect videos and information). I'd love a single link to a resource page of yours that serves 2 purposes: 1)Helps anyone trying to make sense of all this. 2) Helps break down the barriers between the trans activists and people who are trying to divert the conversation supporting non-medical care. For instance, today I directed a person to Genspect who was curious but at the same time, a person was arguing with irrelevant screenshots such as, FDA Approval of Lupron but they didn't give the source or that it was for precocious puberty. I could participate in more conversations if I could provide a single link and move on. I've applied to X to become a community notes contributer as well, and I'll be using your resources as much as possible when not using sources such as Wikipedia, the NIH, etc.
I love your work and I pray for you, in spite of not being religious. ❤🙏
You guys talk about how the AGP boys may not be ROGD because they're AGP... But from what I have read and heard about AGP --especially the latest Transparency podcast by the Aarons-- it can cause gender dysphoria, but it isn't like the "old school transexuals" whose gender dysphoria began in childhood. A teenager or boy can have an autogynephilic tendency or paraphilia, but not have gender dysphoria and not even be gender non-conforming outside the space where he fantasizes about being a girl/woman, or taking on certain accoutrements of womanhood/femininity, etc., AND develop a rapid onset or late onset gender dysphoria. He can grow to reject his masculinity, his body, his sex, his genitals, the sex stereotypes assigned to him as a male (the male gender identity), through the internalization of social messages and social cues, online community formation and discovery, the realization that he "can transition" and embody his fantasy permanently, he can become obsessed and ruminate constantly about gender, when before, he didn't do this at all, but simply, um, indulged in his private, personal, intimate autogynephilic practices or fantasies (whatever they were).
So I wouldn't separate AGP from ROGD, but instead contemplate that AGP is one path into ROGD. Or is that totally wrong?
You are spot on. This discussion is missing so much information. Listening to male detransitioners, you can totally understand the connection to porn that involves AGP'S. Boys are going to always be curious about porn especially when it involves dark subjects. The ROGD group knows how the internet sucks in those nonconforming boys. I would suggest these two do their homework a little better before confusing more parents.
I have heard Sasha and Stella use such terms as "pre-gay kids" and "kids who will grow up to be gay." So cleary you are skilled at being very precise with language and have been trained to avoid labelling children, even if it comes to the LGB sexualities. So why then "AGP kids"? What is the purpose and where are you heading with this?
"AGP kid" should not be an expression used by a therapist. Not every porn-fueled thought or fantasy needs to become a label for a child, whose sexuality is still developing. Frankly, all of this is insane.
AGP exists in children, it's a kind of orientation like being straight or gay or bi. How young do you think kids start to understand their orientation? I understood at 12, but looking back there were indicators before that. Orientations aren't just about sex, we have just focused on that for cultural reasons. A kid can have signs of AGP, will it persist, perhaps or perhaps not but atypical kids of all types exist and they do need relevant support of some kind
More thoughts on this video!
I know that the FTM side is the most dominant in the conversation right now, especially regarding ROGD; I can't really speak to the FTM experience, but from the MTF side...I think that for adolescent boys who begin to cross-identify as girls, there is probably so much more to it than just "AGP" or "HSTS" per Blanchard typology. I'm sure those are real phenomena, but in terms of understanding and addressing the etiology of MTF trans-identification, I think those are the "low hanging fruit". I think if an adolescent boy is cross-identifying as a girl and it does not seem to be a case of ROGD, then my hypothesis would be that it is likely caused by complex trauma (e.g. child abuse and/or neglect). I am 100% against childhood or adolescent transition, but I think if counselors had the opportunity to really figure out and work on the underlying causes of the child's cross-identification, they could help to avert a lifetime of major depression and anxiety and all of the other issues, including risk of transition regret. I know this is currently considered by some to be "conversion therapy", and perhaps still- transition might be the most effective treatment in the long run. I really don't know. I can only speak for my own experience, and despite the fact that I struggled for so many years, I am somewhat grateful for those years, because I am now confident in my transition, and mature enough to have ownership over the decision and to consent to the risks.
Thank you!
I am listening to your book right now. I wish I had read this 3 years ago when my Dystopic life started with my ROGD child.
Great episode, as ALWAYS. So helpful to communicate to us parents all the layers that we might be missing in ourselves as we try desperately to help our children. Specific feedback: the wording of “gender diverse.” Slippery slope here to validating the notion of gender as something innate and separate from biological sex. It has been said that there are over 7 billion “genders” because every person in the world has a unique personality comprised of infinite combinations of stereotypically male and female characteristics amongst other traits. If we say “gender diverse” instead of male or female with a unique personality, or just gender dysphoric, or from your book title, “people who say they’re trans,” then we are falling into the trap of proposing that if people’s “gender” variation does not match their biological sex, then their bodies can/should then be tinkered with. And “tinkered” is quite the euphemism, right? Five years ago, I ventured out into the shaky territory of discussing sex with my then 15 year-old who was insisting on a double mastectomy because I wanted to make sure she experienced her erogenous zones before cutting them apart. I also wanted to know if there was sexual trauma behind her very sudden hatred of her body that seemed to be exceeding the age-old teen girl discomfort that is now so horribly given a new escape hatch through “gender affirming care.” And to the notion that all teens and young adults presenting with gender dysphoria or a trans identity might not be ROGD and therefore might be more likely to benefit from transition…Yes, admittedly, I am “peaked” and don’t believe in medicalizing inner feelings, personality variations, or reactions to societal limitations either around sexual orientation or restrictions on/abuse of the sexes. So, with that caveat…AGP individuals could perhaps be helped to accept their sexual orientation (as Phil Illy proposes classifying it) of attraction to themselves as female without altering their body in ways that I believe older transitioned people who are being honest say are harmful - fake vaginas prone to infection and hormones that kill the sex drive anyway and increase the likelihood of cancers and mood disorders. As I understand it, gender medicine has been offered to younger and younger people for many reasons, but one central important one stands out- that older transitioned people were actually NOT doing well. So the reasoning was, let’s transition people earlier so they can pass better, as it was believed (hoped?) that their low functioning and unhappiness were due to not “passing.” But the recent study by Littman, O’Malley, Kerschner, and Bailey strongly suggests that many more complex factors lead people to regret their transitions.
Great podcast, I am learing a lot from this channel. It is a shame I only discovered it this week and I have been a parent of ROGD for over 3 years 😢. Is there any parents group (with more comperhensive views rather than affirming) in Ireland I could join?
We are glad you found us and sorry it took so long. We'd love to hear any insights you might have on why it took so long as we are trying really hard to figure out how to reach people who need this podcast and still don't know it exists. In answer to your question about parents groups-Sasha and Stella both have parent coaching groups. You can find the links in the show notes. That might be a great place to start and then from there you might be able to find information about in person groups, as well.
Bayswater Support Group and
ourduty.group are both UK based. Also Gender Dysphoria Support Network and Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans (PITT) are both for parents
A parent's process will unfold at its own pace, in its own way, and it will be as unique as the parent going through it. It may include a need to vent on social media or jump into activism, and it will definitely include much time spent desperately seeking answers. I judge no parent on the route they take or the destination they arrive at. May we all ultimately find peace and self-forgiveness.
FYI this contains a commercial that hasn’t caught up to the name change from GETA to Therapy First.
Thanks! We are definitely aware of this name change. The ad will be updated in the new year.
This episode of the podcast really hit hard for me. Especially the part about "swat team" parents. My parents were hardcore isolationists and kept me in that "Rapunzel tower" for my entire childhood and I believe it led me to take up a trans identity. And thats despite the fact it was meant to protect me. Going to far into the isolationist realm can definitely cause more problems than it solves.
what was your media diet? any Undertale...? anime..?
@@rachellandry3116 I don't know what undertale is. And I've never watched anime.
Another powerful episode ladies. My 2 cents:
Gender distress is not the individual child’s issue, it’s a family issue- A family of unique members already whole and complete. No one needs to be fixed. That being said, each may have their own adaptive strategies around gender distress and guidance is appropriate for all.
It involves disruption of our patterned adaptive behaviors (internal and external actions) to move toward the family dynamic we seek.
What are your thoughts on "AGP kids" and AGP being a sexuality?
Good question.
Honestly I think given societal norms and my current understanding, having AGP must be an incredibly difficult issue for the individual and their families, yet I’m still inclined to see AGP as a behavior that is separate from an already whole individual.
Can it be “fixed” or managed? I don’t have that expertise.
Some thoughts while listening on my walk this morning....I am the mother of a TIF, and I have no sons (at least not one without a vagina. heh!). I have often thought that somehow a transitioning son would be even more heartbreaking, than the daughter I am dealing with now. I don't know if this is a common thought of mothers of TIF's or not? Or if it's a very sexist way of thinking? In any case, it seems like AGP is really on the rise, as well as ROGD. And while I agree they don't necessarily seem to be the same thing, I can't help but come back to the source of all of this springing from the *power of suggestion*. Would we be seeing the rise in AGP as well as ROGD if these kids had never come across it in porn or social media? Are these AGP boys truly born AGP? I have a hard time believing it, but I admit there is a lot I don't understand. To me it seems so obvious what internet influences have done to our very impressionable and vulnerable kids. I think the "power of suggestion" is, well, so VERY freaking powerful. I just finished watching "Escaping Twin Flames", another documentary on an online cult on Netflix and it's frightening to see how easily rational seeming people are influenced by such idiocy. At the end of the docuseries they report that there are over 10,000 cults operating in the U.S. now and that since the pandemic, online cults have grown significantly (sidenote: it also ends up being a trans affirming show, citing the 1% regret rate of medicalized transgender people). I really just don't think enough attention is spotlighted onto how kids are getting into all of the mental health problems - including gender dysporia and AGP - anywhere. The free internet has been a shitshow for our kids. Perhaps all of humanity??
I do think it's important to include trans adults in these conversations because this impacts them, too. They have lots of experience. I have had an FtM friend for 27 years (I've known him since I was a teen). His perspective is helpful.
I also was a very active part of the LGBT community myself. I was a dancer.
Both of my daughters have ROGD, but each for some similar reasons, and some very different reasons. I thought maybe my older daughter really might be trans. Now she loves skirts, favorite color is pink, wears make-up, extremely feminine, and has mythical creature identities, loves her body, autistic, still thinks she's trans. My younger daughter was adamantly a girl, but did not like developing a very curvy body. They are both giggly teen girls. Nearly all of their friends are trans identified. Many were put on T as teens, and 1 had a double mastectomy, all feminine girls. It's become normalized for teen girls to medicalize to look like "a boy in a dress."
My book is at the publishers, should be out by February. 🎉🎉🎉
Excited ad nervous.
What book?
@@happynjoyousnfree Living with Autism Undiagnosed
It's for anyone who wants a better understanding of what it's like to be autistic
Wouldn't a "data-obsessed" autistic parent with an autistic ROGD child be operating exactly on the autistic child's wave-length? An autistic parent who is sways by facts and not feelings is likely to have a child who will respond to facts, not feelings. Overall, even if the child is not "data-obsessed", knowing the facts is essential to their process of finding themselves on their quest of identity search. I'm a bit taken aback by your insistance, here and elsewhere, that conveying facts and research to teens is a bad idea. It seems to me that you are going along with infantilising teens.
An AGP child is to be contended with, just as an AGP adult is to be contended with? First of all, why are you labeling children as perverts? AGP should be an adult diagnosis. Second, why are you treating AGP tendencies in teens as permanent? Why do you not address grooming and porn? Since when AGP is an inborn sexuality that needs to be contended with in kids and teens?
Thank you @badgerravens408. I am glad someone is speaking up for these boys. So Stella and Sasha wonder why parents don't trust psychotherapists? Hmmm🤔
Are you aware there were people called transvestites in the past who had similar behaviours starting in childhood/adolescence? They were never encouraged to be like that and they had no internet but they existed none the less. They were harmless people who lived secret lives of shame. I'm not sure what help there is in calling such people perverts?
33:05 - 34:10 ... but how can this hypothesis be tested/falsified?
(Evolution and family taboos).
36:58-37:02 Is Sasha calling AGP a childhood sexual orientation?
Is Stella calling parents who are not "accepting" AGP as their child's sexuality as "difficult"?
Where are the stats to back up your theories Stella and Sasha? BTW, transition is slowly being proven to NEVER be the best solution. You haven't figured that out yet? Hmmm🤔
How should you tell the parents? First of all... AGP is NOT a sexual orientation. It's a learned deviation. Find out where and how it manifests. Maybe start with facts first.
thank you
Such a helpful episode. I think there is a lot of pressure on those of us living in the U.S. to go the nuclear option - cutting off all our child's online devices and all their "toxic" friends. As well-meaning as this is, our children are likely using trans-identification as a coping mechanism. It's usually not wise to take away a coping mechanism without replacing it with something else (and if they are teens, it can't just be the parents.) Our kids live in the world and for some reason trans-identification makes some kind of sense to them. I also appreciated that there are some families paralyzed from taking any action at all. That's not helpful either, you must communicate your thoughts and values. It's such a tricky, trickly balance, figuring out what our particular child needs. There are many paths into this mess, so by necessity there will be many paths out. Beware of the overly simplistic, one size fits all answer. Thank you, Stella and Sasha.
Hey guys, I just tagged your channel in an Instagram post of mine. Just a heads up. Keep up the good work.
Awesome thank you!
I know this will sound fanboy-ey but can we have some like "therapy is cool" shirts with the GWL logo on them please. I know that specific line has been over used but maybe a good line form on of the episodes :D
Shame is not essentially, always, a negative emotion, and it is often related to feeling embarrassed when knowing, or thinking, that others think ill or us, that others have judged us and found us wanting, that others know, or believe, something bad about us, that others know that we misbehaved or violated a social norm, a moral boundary, etc. Guilt is an emotion related to something that one has done (or thinks one has done), and it can be horrible and cause a person to feel shame, on top of the guilt, but I wouldn't separate them as "guilt good", "shame bad", because they can both be useful in making a person avoid a behavior that is harmful to the community (speaking in broad terms here), or they can be maladaptive and negative if they paralyze a person. I think "shame" gets a bad rep in the contemporary world, and I am not sure why... guilt, however, gets a good rep, and that is more puzzling still.
Moderator here... I think Stella is using the guilt/shame definitions that Brené Brown uses where guilt is tied to "I did something bad" and shame is tied to "I AM bad." In this case, guilt can be positive because if someone did something bad they can apologize or try to do something different next time, there is agency in guilt. Whereas if shame is related to who you are as a person then you feel you have no agency, you are just bad. I believe this is what Stella meant, of course, there are other interpretations of these words, and yes, both can be used in harmful ways against others and the self.
Thanks for another great episode full of wise guidance.
My son is 23 and I don’t know ( I don’t think he knows either), if he is RODG or AGP, but he is very woke, and he currently believes both of those terms are not real. So therefore, he is not learning anything about what his condition actually is … he just says he’s trans and wants hormones and doesn’t wanna talk about anything else. So therefore I feel like I have to do this research ( also for my own need to understand) and thankfully he is looking at some of the videos I send, even though he’s still too woke to open his mind to realistically sort out what’s really happening with him. He has had no sexual experience and says he’s bi… am I wrong to think that once he does get a little sexual experience that he may open his mind to these views?
I'm reading your comment here and wondering if it's possible your son has internal/external homophobia....saying your bi is quite often a first step to admitting your gay. I hope he gets the support that he needs to work his way through this, at 23 years old though he is an adult. It sounds like you are being as supportive as you can and it does sound like he's not completely shut you down which is obviously a good thing.
Does he have any passions or hobbies? It seems like a lot of these kids haven't spent much time enjoying real life. Just phones, computers and video games.
It's difficult to develop a healthy relationship with ourselves if we never spend any quality time alone and with others while being fully present. He might benefit from a decent dose of psilocybin mushrooms. 💚
@@Engrave.Danger yes thanks, I recommended that kind of medicine could help, and he is thinking in it!
He used to play instruments and liked to be with friends … but since pandemic it’s all about trans. Online life with lots of gaming. He still reads a lot but it all just pro transgender books.
@@MiniT-x8q maybe? But lately says he leans more toward identifying as lesbian, ugh. So who knows, time will tell… I just wish under 25 was not allowed to have any medicalization
Really it's about dr.s and therapists giving the full facts about side effects. Trans regret and detrans is not new.
Ah, Stella. I agree with you 90 percent of the time, but when I disagree, I disagree A LOT. Social media is a cesspool, especially for adults. There's absolutely no point in fighting any culture war there. Social media is like World War I--it seemed important at first, but after years and year and years and year and years of no progress, everyone is realizing it's just a huge waste of time, effort, and energy. Plus there are way too many casualties.
Hola! muchas gracias por su ayuda cómo puedo tener una terapia con ustedes? agradezco mucho la información que brindan es de gran valor
Fantastic episode. I love listening to you both talk! I am so grateful that you dive into the details like this.
Near the end of the episode, Sasha was talking about how to work with parents of children for whom transition seems to work, and who pursue it as a long-term "strategy". I really like this phrasing of transition. I consider "gender dysphoria" to be a chronic mental illness (I don't think I'm saying anything controversial, but maybe), that likely manifests due to numerous different reasons. I don't think it's necessarily all about discomfort with secondary sex characteristics either- I think that the DSM definition is too narrow in this regard. I think that its probably more a psychosocial phenomenon. I think that under certain circumstances, transition can be a good strategy to manage it. I know people would argue against that, and say "treat the mind, not the body"; there are also the arguments surrounding women's spaces, and sports, and the argument that transition reinforces gender stereotypes or erases homosexuality...I don't know how to address all of these issues. But I think for some people (like myself) transition can have an incredibly positive effect on their mental health. I don't know how or why- and I'm not sure it matters how or why. I struggled with my mental health my entire life, I have been on and off antidepressants, in and out of counseling, self-medicating with drugs and alcohol, I had one pretty bad episode of self-harm, and suicidal thoughts...then I decided to transition, and after several months or a year, my mental health improved significantly. These past 2.5 years have been the best of my life; gender stereotypes be damned. This is my one life, and if transition is what it took (for whatever reason), then this is the strategy I choose, and am grateful that I did.
I feel really bad for parents dealing with this issue now. I am really grateful for the work that you do. Thank you for reading all this! 💜
-Jen
Thanks for your insightful comments, Jen, as always!
@@widerlenspod 💜🙌
Honest questions. What do you think you transitioned to? Do you think your transition allows you be classified as a woman or just a different way to be a man and be comfortable in this world? Do you use women's spaces? If you do, why?
@@aliciaochs Hello there. I refer to myself as a transwoman, or just trans, and definitely not woman or female. I am a feminine male, I take cross-sex hormones, and have had a female sex hormone profile for over 2 years now. I attempt to present and be seen as a woman in the world. I think most people can tell I am a male, but more and more often people refer to me as "miss" or "ma'am" in public, so the changes must be working. I use gender-neutral, or single-occupancy restrooms, except in very rare cases where that has not been an option. In those cases I have used the women's restroom, or the men's room depending on the circumstances. I do a lot to avoid using sexed spaces, but it's not always possible. I have been undergoing this in order to attempt to resolve significant mental health issues that I have been dealing with my entire life. I feel grateful that it has helped me significantly. 💜
@@jeng3609 Thank you for your response. While I can have compassion that you have a difficult condition to contend with, I absolutely think no one born male should be using women's spaces. Hard no, no exceptions. Now that the medical community is creating illusions of perception. Some work, some don't. Society needs to come up with solutions that do not compromise the rights of women/girls for their spaces. Our perception of who is male and female gets distorted when the medical community is doing this. Whether this should even be a thing is another subject entirely.Too many think "passing"..is the condition. Who decides who passes? Why should that be a consideration? We need 3rd spaces. Men/boys with issues about their sex should be respecting women/girls. They cannot be us.
At 55:51 for once I think Sasha and Stella bring up a very important point more of the typical listeners here need to deal with if they want to maintain a relationship with their child, but the moment you need to drop the "ROGD" cultism and move in to acceptance needs to be when your child pursues medical transition for themselves and they're of age of medical consent (Typically 18 in the US, but it's 16 in some states and most of Europe). At that point, like it or not, they're an adult with the capability to make their own medical decisions, and the more you push against them at that point, the harder it will be to ever re-establish a relationship moving forward. What these parents aren't considering is that eventually they will have to learn to accept the fact their child is Trans and support and respect them, and the longer you take to do that, the harder it will be for your child to then accept your years of rejection if they are ever able to reconcile with it at all. I can tell you from my personal experience that it took around 5 years for my own mother to come to terms with me from the point I began medical transition, which was a few years after GRS. At that point she tried to re-establish a relationship, but I had so much pent up resentment towards those years of rejection that it took me another 5 years to come to terms with what she'd done and accept and forgive her. She may have only spent 5 years rejecting my identity, but it ended up costing her a whole decade of a lost relationship which is now finally stronger than ever and we're both incredibly thankful for.
Bottom line is if your child is medically transitioning and they're of age of medical consent, it's time for you to learn to accept reality and find a way to do that without further alienating your relationship with your child, be it through therapy or any other coping methods you need to resort to. If your child is 23 and you're still attributing it to "ROGD", you REALLY need a serious wake-up call unless you intend to completely sever the relationship with them permanently. If they've been medically transitioning and you're still in "ROGD" mode and claim they're more deppressed and unhappy, maybe start considering that this is just how they feel around you due to how you treat them and not the result of medical transition.
❤
I would be very hesitant to call a child's role play AGP bc. the sexual aspect would be missing. For similar reasons you don't apply the term "psychopath" to a child with psychopatic tendencies. Other than that I appreciate your compassionate support of parents.
60 Minutes,CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBC, all news agencies MUST share this information (there is so much more than 2mins. can depict!)
Plus this news reader is terrible - seemed distracted and should have read the WPATH FILES in preparation. She is missing taking a lead on the BIGGEST medical scandal of all time.
👍
J’aime bien ce format de dialogue même si scripté un minimum.
I watch this channel because.....Dis is the TTinking persons take on gender.
I do love that part.
disappointing to see condemnation in the comments for honest discussion of AGP. AGP is probably the biggest driver of the increase in teen boys wanting to be girls. Many AGPs report pre-pubertal exciting experiences trying on girls' clothing etc, but it doesn't really kick in until the testosterone surge at puberty. They used to come out in middle age, but now they're coming out in their teens. Porn doesn't make them AGP, it's that AGPs like sissy porn. Is sissy porn likely to speed up their desire to transition? My guess would be yes. Are AGPs who might've settled for cross dressing now being transed unnecessarily? My guess would be yes. Tired of the sanctimonious bullshit on this issue. Do the damned reading.
Certain people can't understand that these types of issues always existed. Generally these people were "transvestites" in the past and they hid women's clothing from family and wives, living a secret life in extreme shame. Some people don't believe these circumstances arise naturally without encouragement and they don't understand that atypical people were horribly isolated pre-internet. Some people are very simple-minded about these things and get into weird conspiracy theories. I feel sorry for their kids, I'm not sure how you could have mature conversations with those parents. Being pro-transion in all cases is definitely bad but being someone who would send your kid to conversion therapy type things is bad too.