"But we were born of risen apes, not fallen angels, and the apes were armed killers besides. And so what shall we wonder at? Our murders and massacres and missiles, and our irreconcilable regiments? Or our treaties whatever they may be worth; our symphonies however seldom they may be played; our peaceful acres, however frequently they may be converted into battlefields; our dreams however rarely they may be accomplished. The miracle of man is not how far he has sunk but how magnificently he has risen. We are known among the stars by our poems, not our corpses." Robert Ardrey, African Genesis: A Personal Investigation Into the Animal Origins and nature of Man. (gdreads) 1961 is given as the publishing date of this book.
I was mis-aged a number of times in my youth as looking very young and then later as a grandmother a couple of times when I was actually the parent!!! Though it upset me, all it made me do was stop wearing the burgundy wool coat with my black beret. Lol...so we get misunderstood in our identities in so many ways, but we can't control how others perceive us at all. You just have to move on from it. Another's perception of us is not in our control.
Transition is semi-comparable to suicide. My brother deleted his past/history when he began to identify as a trans-woman. I'm supposed to rewrite and recall all of my memories with him being a her, with no mention of the "dead name." I can't help but wonder how often these rebirths are more of a supplemental suicide.
Yes but it gets the "best" of both worlds...you get to re-invent yourself but without actually dying. Except,of course,you don't really. Everyone around you KNOWS which is why "going non-contact" is so popular...you're not cnstantly faced by peope who know the truth.
@@KaanfightI still talk to "her" though I don't use the preferred name or pronouns. I stick to nouns like buddy and dude. I still go out of my way for him whenever necessary. Car repairs, a couple of times moving, once of which was out of state, rides from the train station when visiting for the holidays and such. He had one girlfriend prior to transitioning and has only dated other trans-women since while identifying as a lesbian. I get the sense he had internalized homophobia towards men and that transition was a workaround. I'm not sure if there's some level of AGP going on or if it's moreso the support from the community and the types of people that are attracted to that presentation but it was certainly a rapid onset with no previous expression of any femininity. I told 'her' it was like 'she' murdered my brother and now I'm supposed to embrace the killer as my replacement sibling. That's about as deep as the conversation ever went in that direction because they're one of the people that don't want to be questioned or discuss the situation at all. I'm not sure what would come of it at this point but the initial words were right on script with the typical TikTok theme. Transphobic bigots if anyone has curiosity.
@@nickbarber2080yeah, I get the sense that's why he moved out of state. Though I'm sure it's just a matter of avoiding confrontation about it because he doesn't go out of his way to pass, so it's not like people don't know. They just don't know the "dead name" or share pretrans memories.
The framing of questioning gender etc as "Hate" is not a misunderstanding...it is a shrewd rhetorical device to stifle any discussion...particularly shrewd as it's a concept that any angsty teen can immediately relate to and use to effect.
YES THANK YOU for standing up for the mentally vulnerable adults who are lonely, with mental health issues, and with disorders! I’ve seen adults like this in my life
Good job guys. Does anyone else take ages to get through these videos? The reason being is that I have to pause and reflect periodically on what's been said.
Look, it is absolutely true that we can never understand another persons experience fully - but people act as if that implies that we CAN understand out own experiences, nothing could be farther from the truth. None of us are able to grasp at all our own experiences, we do much better at understanding each other. Certainly we can not understand them FULLY, but we understand their experiences much more clearly than they can understand their own, particularly in the case of children, and much better than we understand our own.
Amen. I'm growing so tired of the entire world pretending that with enough technological progress, we'll be able to understand everything. In fact, it's the opposite; the more we learn about the human body, the more we learn that it's a much more complex system than we thought. Medical science has gone through all kinds of crazy, dangerous fads over the years because it believed that there were truths--which ended up not being true. Everyone is complete. No one understands even themselves. That's why we need to leave more space for people to explore. Yes, people (adults) should determine their own fates, but to expect people who know they're broken or just not very good at decision-making to make the best decisions for themselves without help is ridiculous. This applies to psychology as well. We don't ask blink people to choose what "feels right to them." We know that they can't perceive certain things, so we help them by either making it easier for them to see, or we give them directions based on our own sight. This expecting people to be able to heal themselves is really shortsighted and damaging for a lot of people.
@ 48:40 You can tell if someone has been exposed to large doses of testosterone; you cannot “always tell” what someone’s physical sex is. We can determine sex very quickly and at a distance, but we are not 100% accurate. I think women can recognize sex of adults even faster than men can, because throughout human history, our safety has depended on the ability to recognize if a stranger might pose a risk to us.
I also think they mischaracterized the point GC feminists try to make with that statement. Yes, some people are successfully able to deceive others into believing they're the opposite sex, but you cannot fool 100 percent of people 100 percent of the time. It's one thing to see someone in a picture or a video, it's quite another to see them in person, how they move, how they behave, their body proportions in relation to those around them. There is often something "off" with these people, but no one wants to be unkind and point it out or risk being wrong. With the detransitioners, I can guarantee it isn't GC feminists calling them men. It's people who are unfamiliar with the effects of T on a female body. For those who are familiar, it's often obvious. I also don't think it's cruel to say this. These people are attempting to deceive others. That's the whole point of "transition." I think we have a right to say "I will not be deceived. You will not deceive me."
@@Joy-kc5xz We can't "always tell" if we don't need to know--some people in some hallway that we are passing by...we would clock them via their predominant visual characteristics, as we ultimately don't care. But the moment we are 1:1 and we NEED to know, and we see the whole person, not a photo, we CAN tell. Buck has incredibly feminine speech patterns, for example. But ultimately whether we can tell or not tell is irrelevant, because it is a deception anyway. The only context where it is relevant is ideology. When activists such as Kelly Jay Keen and writers such as Helen Joyce say that we can always tell, they are setting a boundary-“You, grifter, stay away. I am a woman. I will always know.” When Sasha and Stella say that well, no, you can't always tell, they are prepping the ground for "what if transitioning was a viable and manageable long-term goal for your child." AND they ARE prepping the ground for "some children will benefit from transitioning", because if the goal of transitioning is "to pass" so that "no one could tell" and this is an achievable goal, then earlier transition is obviously better. I think they have ideologically fallen and it will be more and more evident in the next year.
I would like to hear about when there are multiple adolescents in a family. I think my daughter is coming out the other side of this but I have nieces and a nephew whom is in terrible distress I feel. Is it wrong to feel reluctant to bring my child around in fear that she may slide back.
I am just trying to point out the core confusion "words". See, as a science communicator, it makes sense when you use specific vocabulary such as "experience" and "journey" as a careful verification process to assess the validity of an extreme, but as a political debater, these words suggest the notion that just if one feels like their opposite gender, then they are so. This case is similar to what is considered "theory" in science versus what it means in everyday talk. Then, we have these non-practicing biologists of all kinds and types jumping into these debates, affirming their side of the discussion. I am grateful for you putting up these videos recently, I hope such messages are forwarded to these "science communicators" and "influencers" on all sides.
Very good podcast. I come from a family in which the most “masculine” member of the family was my mom. None of the males (my dad, my older brother and me) were uber masculine. This obsession with gender I find very bizarre. As a gay man and someone who scores very highly on the autism quotient (AQ), I suspect I would have found the “non-binary” label attractive (when people talk about a crisis in masculinity, I still don’t understand what they are talking about). Ultimately though, creating new identities although well-meaning, makes life and growing up more complicated then it needs to be.
A nuanced takeaway is that gender is another issue like so many others, where thinking in such absolutes detracts from allowing one to stay open, curious and connected with one another.
How about gender is little more than an ill-defined concept. It is an aspect of personality. We can appreciate personalities are unique and different. Gender seems to be something which is emorphous, ill-conceived and at best a feeling. Hence we have gone from gender being a binary to being infinite.
Another awesome conversation!!!! Thank you! Re: "you can always tell". I'm MTF, and though I know who and what I am, and think I'm pretty mature and resilient, it is still pretty hurtful when someone says something like this. I think it's unnecessary and intended to be hurtful. Thankfully, it has only happened a couple times in person- mostly it's in on-line spaces (RUclips or Twitter comments). Myself and other trans women and trans men get excoriated for our appearance. I think that a lot of us understand that we look this way, we know that hormones do not make us the opposite sex. We know that we are mentally ill, and deeply traumatized. For some of us (like myself), transition has had a remarkably positive effect on our mental health. I don't understand why, perhaps the effect of the hormones on my brain chemistry, perhaps the freedom of expression...I don't know. But when I "clock" another trans woman, I see pain, struggle, and beauty. Like a flower somehow emerging from a dry rock crevice. I would like to see us reach a point in society where people can see the beauty in our mixed or hybrid existences and appearance, rather than our failings to pass. 💜 I ❤ you both so much! I hope you have a conference in the northeastern US sometime! Perhaps Boston? I would love to go and meet you, and ask you to sign my copy of your book (on order!)!!!
I truly believe that most people want to live in a society in which people are free to express themselves and live their lives as they see fit. At the same time, I am under no illusion about the small number of people who are hateful, whether it be toward race or religion or trans Identity. That being said, I suspect part of "you can always tell", when used in a hurtful manner, is a reaction to the demands many trans activists are making that we upend key elements of our society, particularly around women's rights and privileges but also how children are being taught now. Key areas are women's private spaces, women's sports and schools hiding from parents that children are playing the role of a different gender while at school. When these lines were crossed, many people determined that gender ideology had gone too far. I honestly think that "live and let live" was and is perfectly possible once the excesses of the current attempted overhaul of our society stops. Until men stop saying things like "Trans women are women" instead of "trans women deserve respect as any other member of society" - an ideal most people agree with - you will, unfortunately continue to experience the backlash. I remember having a conversation with a friend 25 years ago after he had started presenting as a woman. He explained to me how he had tried everything to feel comfortable in his male body and simply couldn't do it. I believed him then and still believe him. I and our entire friend group had zero problem with him. Trans activists making unreasonable demands-and the rest of society seemingly going along with it out of fear of being labeled a transphobe-are ruining it for everyone.
@@AndreAngelantoni Thanks. Yes I agree. I went to a pride festival over this past summer. The overt sexuality around children was too much. I didn't feel comfortable and decided to leave. There were many young teens there carrying trans flags or other flags. There were children under 10 years old in the audience of a drag show (not full-on, but still very sexual in nature). I left feeling very sad and confused about how and why things have gotten this way. Why is there a "drag story hour" for kids? Whose idea was that and why is it so prevalent? Why would someone want to dress in drag and read to children, and why would someone feel comfortable taking their kids to that? I just don't get it. I just want to pass, blend in, and live life- find love, and have special moments and memories. I think a lot of us do. I express myself when I can, in person (rarely) and on-line. I don't know. the problem seems so big. It would be good to have an LGBTQ organization that works against this, instead of for it. I know there is LGB alliance. I guess they kicked us out, haha. it's ok, I understand. Part of the problem is that I don't want to expose myself and draw attention to myself as trans. I don't want to be on the front lines, with people doxxing me and digging into my life to exploit my failings. Anyways, I should go- thank you for writing 💜maybe more soon...
@@jeng3609 Thank you for your thoughtful response. I encourage you to add your voice to the conversation. Together we can stand for acceptance of each member of society while acknowledging that there are accommodations (private spaces for women, women's only sports leagues, etc.) and boundaries (such as preventing the child sexualization you mentioned) that are also appropriate. And I also do get that you are trying to blend in. However, I suspect all of us will regret more on our deathbed not finding the courage to speak (that is, failing to say what needed to be said) rather than saying things that needed to be said. Regarding blending in, you raise a critical point. The key distinction between the gay rights movement and the modern transgender movement is actually what you are pointing out. Gay people wanted to "come out of the closet" and be visible. In contrast, transgender people want to pass without comment. Thus it never made sense for the transgender people to join the LBG people-the two groups are working at cross-purposes. Plus, increasingly more gay people are coming to realize that many transgender people are simply taking on the other gender because they were struggling with feelings of attraction to the same sex. Instead of coming out as gay, people are choosing to present as the other sex. This is *another* reason for the gay community not to support transgender ideology as it's currently being expressed.
The "you can always tell" is a pretty old one and not exclusive to transsexuals. It's one of those base things that "trans activism," for a lack of a better distinguishment, takes it's subversion from. It's shrouded in the sort of plausible-deniability of that notion vaguely being true in the majority, but not actually true, such that it may be a casually come upon belief by anyone who hasn't had the experience by example to know better. That's the use of "always" for ya... Anyways, to reiterate, it also has gotten used towards any androgyny, anyone naturally butch/femme (in both directions as in female woman being wrongfully treated as male and called female, some irony in those instances), cross-dressing including just for clothing aesthetic, and so on. "If it wasn't that, it'd be something else" I think applies to most of such people. And you can usually tell by more than the "always" as someone making a features comment usually says more with acknowledgement so I wouldn't place that on them other then being particular and exacting. Tone is usually a give-away, as well. And to go with the above, it's not always someone against either; need only consider how any brand of activist behaves against those they view as their enemies. (ex. even a full self-id activist if you're a dissenter or have aggrieved them will pull out that same knife) With that... I've found/suggest that understanding of it being a tactic in most probably instances at least helps alleviate for such actions; not fully, but a "it helps to know" kinda thing. Also hi again~ 🦊💙 --- And of course... and as an aside... I wouldn't be able to fully agree with Andre's comment. I take issue with what seems to be the contemporary usage of "rights" with the use of "women's rights" implying segregated "rights" and the blaming of men. Similar to what I think is the sentiment of _""Until men stop saying things like "Trans women are women" instead of "trans women deserve respect as any other member of society""_ , that it should be "the rights of women" as an arbitrary demographic selection and not an adjective implying "rights" specific to explicit demographic (issues with implying mutual exclusivity, and and imply imposition, rather the universal right by principle of humanity). Also... I would say _"Trans women are women"_ but since I consider "sex/gender split" that is simply a redundancy for me as am no invoking and interpolation between "women" and "female" and to what degree and which sector of the conflated assigned demographic is being used, cause all those other vaguely associated types of people are also claimed as is convenient and beyond. Interpolation, as one way to say it, is a major point of linguist manipulate being widely employed. I'd point out that _"ideal most people agree with"_ is *not* the meaning of _"Trans women are women"_ being alluded to and so it cannot be such a linguistic replacement, it's not the intent even if that's the intended perception.
@@AndreAngelantoni Hi there. I agree about adding voice, though I don't think I have a lack of courage in most situations. I try to add my voice in ways that feel safe to me. Though I'm not planning to end up in a death bed- I don't want to live that long! I don't know when the T was added to LGB. I always thought it was more for solidarity between people who face similar prejudice and stigma, even though they differ in other ways. I am bisexual and trans, and I think that even though I am "B", they probably wouldn't accept me because I'm also "T". See what I mean? haha. I'm not sure it matters. I understand the reasoning, LGB is strictly about sexual orientation and I think it's great that they are consolidating and organizing against childhood transition.
OMG Sasha. I feel for you. I once jumped on a plane with my colleague's carry on while he grabbed a smoke before boarding. While he too his time, I informed the flight attendants he was on his way and that I had his bag. Long and short, the airline eventually closed the door and backed from the gate before my colleague boarded. I got up out of my seat with the carry on, while in taxi and executed my powers of persuasion (jedi mind tricks) stating "my colleague has nothing. This carry on has everything. I don't care how you do it. This bag needs to get off this plane. Throw it out a window. I don't care." The flight attendant processed the honor i was experiencing through my eyes. She Took the bag from me and spoke to the pilots. They pulled back up to the gate, open the doors, threw the bag off, shut the door, then pushed off the gate AGAIN, before take off. My efforts allowed my colleague to get a hotel room that night and catch the next flight in the morning. " Phew ! " Airlines NEVER do that. But, I'm just so darn charming I guess. 🐿
The only thing with the "you can always tell" "myth" is that is an innate ability. You can measure it in 6 month old children. It's common for numerous animals because it's a survival mechanism. I get that you can't literally always tell but as a man I'm taller than 98%+ of females for example. This is more of a reaction to the myth that most trans women pass. It's more that trans men can fly under the radar because short men go unnoticed and if you're balding and have a beard ppl think man.
We can't "always tell" if we don't need to know--some people in some hallway that we are passing by...we would clock them via their predominant visual characteristics, as we ultimately don't care. But the moment we are 1:1 and we NEED to know, and we see the whole person, not a photo, we CAN tell. Buck has incredibly feminine speech patterns, for example. But ultimately whether we can tell or not tell is irrelevant, because it is a deception anyway. The only context where it is relevant is ideology. When activists such as Kelly Jay Keen and writers such as Helen Joyce say that we can always tell, they are setting a boundary-“You, grifter, stay away. I am a woman. I will always know.” When Sasha and Stella say that well, no, you can't always tell, they are prepping the ground for "what if transitioning was a viable and manageable long-term goal for your child." AND they ARE prepping the ground for "some children will benefit from transitioning", because if the goal of transitioning is "to pass" so that "no one could tell" and this is an achievable goal, then earlier transition is obviously better. I think they have ideologically fallen and it will be more and more evident in the next year.
@@badgerravens408 Didn't Sasha literally say there are no circumstances for her that minor transition is correct and Stella said that ppl are trying to make out earlier gender dysphoria sufferers are fine to transition and she's very against it in this very video?! They've never ever expressed the idea that ppl should transition to pass to my knowledge. I think you've been incredibly unfair to them. They literally contradict your claims in this video. Neither of them believe in children transitioning at all. Did you watch this video?
@@badgerravens408 Then you can literally give an example. Otherwise it's daft to write what you wrote on a video which completely contradicts your viewpoint explicitly. It gives the impression you couldn't be bothered to listen.
@@robertmarshall2502 okay. Remember when they had GETA, Gender Exploratory Therapy Assocciation? Have you noticed it was recently renamed as Therapy First? Have you looked at their "about" section? Have you noticed that sexual orientation is used as a parallel term with "gender identity"? Have you asked yourself why this terms is there, in that sentence, with that very same follow up sentence? Why Therapy First, i.e. Genspect, i.e. Sasha and Stella are legitimizing the term "gender identity" instead of getting rid of it or putting it in quotation marks? Fair enough, they ARE saying, that childhood medicalisation, except for some very rare cases, is not ethical. Yet they are legitimising the term "gender identity" in children and teens; they are saying that "gender identity" is not something they set out to change--replace the term with "eating disorder" or "body dysmorphia" and see if the sentence in question still works. Then ask yourself why a child can have an "AGP sexuality" and why this is being promoted by this podcast. And if a child can have an AGP "sexuality" then certainly a child can have a "gender identity." And if a child can have a gender identity and treating it is cruel and coercive, as per Therapy First, then what is the next logical conclusion? You might say that I'm reading too much into this. Fair enough. I do hope, very much so, that I'm wrong. But my eyes have very much openned and my almost blind trust in "Sasha and Stella" is gone. www.therapyfirst.org/statement/
I know that your general focus is on providing advice and support for the parents of kids that say they're trans, and suspect, because of this, the parents you deal with will be mostly sane, caring and prepared to learn, but I just wanted to say that awful parents and parenting is sometimes an elephant in the room during your podcasts. There really are some terrible terrible people in the world, and those people have children. I know you are both fully aware of this, and how the cohort of parents that you deal with will inevitably be more considered than the huge numbers that don't seek you guys out. It's just that sometimes it feels a little bit too much like you are pushing an idea of desperate, distraught parents rending their clothes in despair, prepared to do anything, when the reality is much a more complicated one. Parents that don't care, parents who abuse, parents that cannot love, homophobic parents, parents that never learned to put their children first, jealous parents, parents that can never be wrong... They are all out there, some of them have trans kids, the "reactionary" dynamic, kids kicking against genuinely poor or abusive parenting must be a factor in this epidemic, especially for girls I suspect. Anyway you both do a brilliant job, this is a minor point! I just felt compelled to say something when considering trans kids being "thrown out of the house". My own father threw me out of the house because I'd finished school and he didn't want me hanging around anymore! He didn't need a bigger reason than that! X
I am not sure what you mean by "awful (terrible, terrible) parents". You are mixing in a whole lot of variables of convenience. Abusive parents likely make it impossible for a minor to even consider transistion. The minor would be terrified to even go there. Even in your case, when did your father become abusive? When he booted you out? Was there a behavioural expectation you felt compelled to adhere to. I don't want to downplay your point or experience. It's just seems for some it's abusive when a parent cuts data and cell phone access.
@@PaulCarr1 Thanks. Let me clarify because i dont see the elephant. My point is there are outliers - people that become parents who shouldn't be. There are bad parents for any number of reasons and they shouldn't be parents. This includes: circumstances exacerbated by a lack of extended family support, drugs, economic situation, intellectual capacity, victims of abuse that dont know better. I still see these circumstances as the outliers and would go so far as to say these kids are LESS at-risks. We really need to resolve a claim that "being trans" is an issue among youth/minors who are prodimently "at-risk" of being harmed or part of the marginalized group or are victimized. There are different populations. This includes the everyday children who believe in Santa Claus and are confused with being born in the wrong body. These children are groomed. They are being confused by the Genderbread Man and Gender Unicorn. It's everyday children fed garbage that leads them to question who they are rather that letting the child mature and grow up in a society rooted in order rather than queer chaos. Puberty is NOT a medical condition requiring treatment. It is a huge step in human development that for 99% of adolescents progresses NORMALLY. It's not easy but it's not a medical condition. ROGD becomes an off shoot trans group when maturation is disrupted. This is largely female.It likely emanates from the perceived unrealistic and daunting expectations placed on young adolescents girls and "girl power". Thank a feminist for this. Society cultivates psychological disorders and results in generational social phenomena (anorexia, bolemia, cutting, witch trials). This group is at-risk but not as a result of bad parents. It has grown unnecessarily because of medical malpractice and negligence. A wilful blindness to ignore the lack of evidence or to simply make up evidence to support the eventual sex change procedures. It all begin with grooming children along this path. Then we have teacher's. They should be involved with what you describe. They have a responsibility to report "real abuses", especially that involving malnutrition, neglect and physical abuse. Where they go off the rails is as providers of gender indoctrination and "shielding" children from their parents. This is unacceptable. They should be held accountable for witholding ANY information realted to a childs health and well-being. Why is trans viewed as some exception? The research from the trans-cult is pretty clear. Confuse the child early and you have them captured. Medicalize them and, despite the increased level of suicides, you can convince many they are the opposite sex. In the right environment you can behaviourally condition child and line them up for a life of medicalization. Well, until they are about 30, by that time they have detransitioned or are dead. Look close at longitudinal studies. The number of subjects the researchers "have lost contact with" is way more significant than the trash conclusions they try to make.
There's no such thing as "REAL trans". It's horrendous abuse to (chemically OR surgically) mutilate ANY child, for no evidence-based reason. If CONSENTING ADULTS choose to self-mutilate, to imitate the superficial appearance of the opposite sex, that's their choice, just like ANY form of religious mutilation. But physiologically harming a 100% healthy child, without any empirical evidence justifying it, is a massive violation of "first do no harm".
I think the people who say “I can always tell” mean they can tell someone has transitioned, be it a male or a female. Meaning I can personally tell if a biological female has transitioned, whether she’s detrans or not. Detrans women are masculinated to such an extent they often DO look similar to a male who is trying to pass as female. Unfortunately. But I think it’s really shit to say to people as a some kind of jab. I’ve known so many trans people in my lifetime that I have a very developed transdar. I don’t think some of the people who say they can tell CAN actually tell. Those of us who have been watching ppl transition for 20+ years can tell.
Ok~ but pulls in some own. - "sex/gender split" concepts would aid with explaining ( 56:55 ) and with some hypothesizes for why those would be the worst, including/in-part young children "don't have gender," not particular or at least not as stereotypical demanded partially from modern/post-industrial sex segregation/over-distinction of children: puberty, play, imagination, etc. - over casual and/or "cure-all" and/or excuse to blame fetish (keep it scoped into sexualization only) use of "AGP" and accepting of Blanchard. Shouldn't be grouped in demographically in that manner, as is partaking in the arbitrary construction of representation demographics that the exploitation and extortion is based and is an incorrect manner of defining a demographic -- out of scope, no observational (is assigning),... - as for "women's rights" that's it's own issue and falsehood that needs addressing that makes that "myth" even more ridiculous and because it forms a bases for many of the other misrepresentations and an implied "right to impose" through segregated privileges ("positive rights" given, not innate... connected with the a form of "positivity bias" including "positive" is inherent good and the converse). See below. - Some of these are too short to address full hierarchical meaning, because for the people that espouse them they are true due to their meaning of works being completely different. Depending on the person, more verbosity may be helpful if you have someone open yet highly off-loading of authority as you'll be needing to challenge their authorities 'merit'/grounds. (A bit of being at risk of "preaching to the quire.") --- _"""On the topic of "rights" and linguistic games:_ _1. Semantics, "[blank] rights are human rights" is the wrong order. This order implies that human rights is a collection of different rights and where they do and don't over lap (think stereotypical venn-diagram), rather than rights being universal from our humanity and how they bare differently in context. This therefore implies a right to imposition where they don't overlap. The proper and correct order would be "'human' rights are [blank] rights" validating that rights are universal from our humanity, and despite differences in how they bare they originate from a shared universal right. (think one circle encompasses all others)_ _2. A quote of that restated/explained in words rather than semantic correction._ _"[W]hen distinct from," There are no 'distinct from' rights, not women's or otherwise._ _"" There is only natural universal "human" rights, not segregated privileges. I am not particularly interested, regardless of how good or meaningful anyone is or from where or fighting from what, if they're going to continue the use of that divisive rhetoric and semantics to position it as segregated privileges. "Oh, but things of different..." No, nothing is different, any variance is still founded from the exact same right, for the same reason, and means. And the focus on solely identity of interest itself promulgates this segregation into privileges, not rights, as such they are treated and envisioned as a unique privilege for identity/group and not understanding of the right for why and universal protection. ""_ _"""_
The greatest myth, misconception or exaggeration about gender, is that anyone is an expert on the matter. Every single person will have their own perspectives to sift through as they experience the swarm of opinion that our society is subject to. While science may say one thing today, it could change as soon as tomorrow. Transition needs will evolve into treatments that people can't see clearly as yet. One day, maybe soon, people will be able to transition at faster and faster rates than previously thought possible. The most important aspect of how this is addressed should be through open minded support and the effort to make access available before puberty can make that much more difficult for people in society. There is nothing good that comes from being excluded from the social groups that we would prefer, while being accepted with open arms by the ones we don't. Stereotyping holds us back from being our best selves, even the ones who feel their fit in society is appropriate for them.
Listen, male and female are different and determined at conception. Gender is imaginary. You might as well say that you are a cat. If gender is something that only exists in someone's head, than gender has nothing to do with the real world and we should not construct policy and laws around something that is so subjective.
@@samuelsnow8714 Your opinion is fair but, it doesn't hold the truth for everyone else that it does for you. I made a statement about being open minded and you clearly are uncomfortable with that. The rest of society will not sit around waiting for your approval. Life goes on and takes many kinds to go around. Everybody deserves the right to choose for themselves and medical advancement has made that easier for every single person to pursue.
An “in advance” myth buster for the AGP post conference morass to come. Another great episode! I especially appreciated the discussion on the balancing act we have as parents between our children naturally “unfolding” and parents knowing when and how to intervene to give them healthy boundaries and guidance.
Stella, when you spoke to Kelly, you affirmed a lot of myths and misconceptions to try and get on her good side. You need to try and stay scientific. Bring Michael Bailey back on, talk to James Cantor again, or Ray Blanchard, or Ken Zucker. Sucking up to Kelly is NOT the right course of action. TRUTH (science) will get us to where we need to go.
We can't "always tell" if we don't need to know--some people in some hallway that we are passing by...we would clock them via their predominant visual characteristics, as we ultimately don't care. But the moment we are 1:1 and we NEED to know, and we see the whole person, not a photo, we CAN tell. Buck has incredibly feminine speech patterns, for example. But ultimately whether we can tell or not tell is irrelevant, because it is a deception anyway. The only context where it is relevant is ideology. When activists such as Kelly Jay Keen and writers such as Helen Joyce say that we can always tell, they are setting a boundary-“You, grifter, stay away. I am a woman. I will always know.” When Sasha and Stella say that well, no, you can't always tell, they are prepping the ground for "what if transitioning was a viable and manageable long-term goal for your child." AND they ARE prepping the ground for "some children will benefit from transitioning", because if the goal of transitioning is "to pass" so that "no one could tell" and this is an achievable goal, then earlier transition is obviously better. I think they have ideologically fallen and it will be more and more evident in the next year.
Moderator here--You are putting words in Sasha and Stella's mouths. The point they were making is that testosterone is a very strong drug and, for better or worse, a number of women are currently taking testosterone and if and when those women de-transition and return to using female spaces, their bodies and their voices might be very alarming to other women who will then "clock" them as male. This is something we will need to grapple with. That is the only point being made her.
"Risen apes, not fallen angels." Awesome quotation. Really powerful.
Was it a quote or did Stella come up with it?
@rozmaringok I thought she said it was a quote or saying...I'll listen again. Awesome either way
"But we were born of risen apes, not fallen angels, and the apes were armed killers besides. And so what shall we wonder at? Our murders and massacres and missiles, and our irreconcilable regiments? Or our treaties whatever they may be worth; our symphonies however seldom they may be played; our peaceful acres, however frequently they may be converted into battlefields; our dreams however rarely they may be accomplished. The miracle of man is not how far he has sunk but how magnificently he has risen. We are known among the stars by our poems, not our corpses."
Robert Ardrey, African Genesis: A Personal Investigation Into the Animal Origins and nature of Man.
(gdreads)
1961 is given as the publishing date of this book.
at 44:39
@@EarthlingEveryman-zv7bs Thanks! powerful stuff
I was mis-aged a number of times in my youth as looking very young and then later as a grandmother a couple of times when I was actually the parent!!! Though it upset me, all it made me do was stop wearing the burgundy wool coat with my black beret. Lol...so we get misunderstood in our identities in so many ways, but we can't control how others perceive us at all. You just have to move on from it. Another's perception of us is not in our control.
Transition is semi-comparable to suicide. My brother deleted his past/history when he began to identify as a trans-woman. I'm supposed to rewrite and recall all of my memories with him being a her, with no mention of the "dead name."
I can't help but wonder how often these rebirths are more of a supplemental suicide.
Yes but it gets the "best" of both worlds...you get to re-invent yourself but without actually dying.
Except,of course,you don't really.
Everyone around you KNOWS which is why "going non-contact" is so popular...you're not cnstantly faced by peope who know the truth.
Do you still talk to your sister?
@@KaanfightI still talk to "her" though I don't use the preferred name or pronouns. I stick to nouns like buddy and dude.
I still go out of my way for him whenever necessary. Car repairs, a couple of times moving, once of which was out of state, rides from the train station when visiting for the holidays and such. He had one girlfriend prior to transitioning and has only dated other trans-women since while identifying as a lesbian. I get the sense he had internalized homophobia towards men and that transition was a workaround.
I'm not sure if there's some level of AGP going on or if it's moreso the support from the community and the types of people that are attracted to that presentation but it was certainly a rapid onset with no previous expression of any femininity.
I told 'her' it was like 'she' murdered my brother and now I'm supposed to embrace the killer as my replacement sibling. That's about as deep as the conversation ever went in that direction because they're one of the people that don't want to be questioned or discuss the situation at all. I'm not sure what would come of it at this point but the initial words were right on script with the typical TikTok theme. Transphobic bigots if anyone has curiosity.
@@nickbarber2080yeah, I get the sense that's why he moved out of state. Though I'm sure it's just a matter of avoiding confrontation about it because he doesn't go out of his way to pass, so it's not like people don't know. They just don't know the "dead name" or share pretrans memories.
@@Engrave.Danger how old are they?
The framing of questioning gender etc as "Hate" is not a misunderstanding...it is a shrewd rhetorical device to stifle any discussion...particularly shrewd as it's a concept that any angsty teen can immediately relate to and use to effect.
YES THANK YOU for standing up for the mentally vulnerable adults who are lonely, with mental health issues, and with disorders! I’ve seen adults like this in my life
Good job guys. Does anyone else take ages to get through these videos? The reason being is that I have to pause and reflect periodically on what's been said.
Look, it is absolutely true that we can never understand another persons experience fully - but people act as if that implies that we CAN understand out own experiences, nothing could be farther from the truth. None of us are able to grasp at all our own experiences, we do much better at understanding each other. Certainly we can not understand them FULLY, but we understand their experiences much more clearly than they can understand their own, particularly in the case of children, and much better than we understand our own.
Amen. I'm growing so tired of the entire world pretending that with enough technological progress, we'll be able to understand everything. In fact, it's the opposite; the more we learn about the human body, the more we learn that it's a much more complex system than we thought. Medical science has gone through all kinds of crazy, dangerous fads over the years because it believed that there were truths--which ended up not being true.
Everyone is complete. No one understands even themselves. That's why we need to leave more space for people to explore. Yes, people (adults) should determine their own fates, but to expect people who know they're broken or just not very good at decision-making to make the best decisions for themselves without help is ridiculous. This applies to psychology as well. We don't ask blink people to choose what "feels right to them." We know that they can't perceive certain things, so we help them by either making it easier for them to see, or we give them directions based on our own sight. This expecting people to be able to heal themselves is really shortsighted and damaging for a lot of people.
@ 48:40 You can tell if someone has been exposed to large doses of testosterone; you cannot “always tell” what someone’s physical sex is.
We can determine sex very quickly and at a distance, but we are not 100% accurate. I think women can recognize sex of adults even faster than men can, because throughout human history, our safety has depended on the ability to recognize if a stranger might pose a risk to us.
I also think they mischaracterized the point GC feminists try to make with that statement.
Yes, some people are successfully able to deceive others into believing they're the opposite sex, but you cannot fool 100 percent of people 100 percent of the time. It's one thing to see someone in a picture or a video, it's quite another to see them in person, how they move, how they behave, their body proportions in relation to those around them. There is often something "off" with these people, but no one wants to be unkind and point it out or risk being wrong. With the detransitioners, I can guarantee it isn't GC feminists calling them men. It's people who are unfamiliar with the effects of T on a female body. For those who are familiar, it's often obvious.
I also don't think it's cruel to say this. These people are attempting to deceive others. That's the whole point of "transition." I think we have a right to say "I will not be deceived. You will not deceive me."
@@Joy-kc5xz We can't "always tell" if we don't need to know--some people in some hallway that we are passing by...we would clock them via their predominant visual characteristics, as we ultimately don't care. But the moment we are 1:1 and we NEED to know, and we see the whole person, not a photo, we CAN tell. Buck has incredibly feminine speech patterns, for example.
But ultimately whether we can tell or not tell is irrelevant, because it is a deception anyway. The only context where it is relevant is ideology. When activists such as Kelly Jay Keen and writers such as Helen Joyce say that we can always tell, they are setting a boundary-“You, grifter, stay away. I am a woman. I will always know.”
When Sasha and Stella say that well, no, you can't always tell, they are prepping the ground for "what if transitioning was a viable and manageable long-term goal for your child." AND they ARE prepping the ground for "some children will benefit from transitioning", because if the goal of transitioning is "to pass" so that "no one could tell" and this is an achievable goal, then earlier transition is obviously better.
I think they have ideologically fallen and it will be more and more evident in the next year.
@@badgerravens408I think you are probably right.
I would like to hear about when there are multiple adolescents in a family. I think my daughter is coming out the other side of this but I have nieces and a nephew whom is in terrible distress I feel. Is it wrong to feel reluctant to bring my child around in fear that she may slide back.
Protect your child from the social contagion.
I am just trying to point out the core confusion "words". See, as a science communicator, it makes sense when you use specific vocabulary such as "experience" and "journey" as a careful verification process to assess the validity of an extreme, but as a political debater, these words suggest the notion that just if one feels like their opposite gender, then they are so. This case is similar to what is considered "theory" in science versus what it means in everyday talk. Then, we have these non-practicing biologists of all kinds and types jumping into these debates, affirming their side of the discussion. I am grateful for you putting up these videos recently, I hope such messages are forwarded to these "science communicators" and "influencers" on all sides.
Starts at 9:05
Very good podcast. I come from a family in which the most “masculine” member of the family was my mom. None of the males (my dad, my older brother and me) were uber masculine. This obsession with gender I find very bizarre. As a gay man and someone who scores very highly on the autism quotient (AQ), I suspect I would have found the “non-binary” label attractive (when people talk about a crisis in masculinity, I still don’t understand what they are talking about). Ultimately though, creating new identities although well-meaning, makes life and growing up more complicated then it needs to be.
A nuanced takeaway is that gender is another issue like so many others, where thinking in such absolutes detracts from allowing one to stay open, curious and connected with one another.
How about gender is little more than an ill-defined concept. It is an aspect of personality. We can appreciate personalities are unique and different. Gender seems to be something which is emorphous, ill-conceived and at best a feeling. Hence we have gone from gender being a binary to being infinite.
Another awesome conversation!!!! Thank you!
Re: "you can always tell". I'm MTF, and though I know who and what I am, and think I'm pretty mature and resilient, it is still pretty hurtful when someone says something like this. I think it's unnecessary and intended to be hurtful. Thankfully, it has only happened a couple times in person- mostly it's in on-line spaces (RUclips or Twitter comments). Myself and other trans women and trans men get excoriated for our appearance. I think that a lot of us understand that we look this way, we know that hormones do not make us the opposite sex. We know that we are mentally ill, and deeply traumatized. For some of us (like myself), transition has had a remarkably positive effect on our mental health. I don't understand why, perhaps the effect of the hormones on my brain chemistry, perhaps the freedom of expression...I don't know. But when I "clock" another trans woman, I see pain, struggle, and beauty. Like a flower somehow emerging from a dry rock crevice. I would like to see us reach a point in society where people can see the beauty in our mixed or hybrid existences and appearance, rather than our failings to pass. 💜
I ❤ you both so much! I hope you have a conference in the northeastern US sometime! Perhaps Boston? I would love to go and meet you, and ask you to sign my copy of your book (on order!)!!!
I truly believe that most people want to live in a society in which people are free to express themselves and live their lives as they see fit. At the same time, I am under no illusion about the small number of people who are hateful, whether it be toward race or religion or trans Identity.
That being said, I suspect part of "you can always tell", when used in a hurtful manner, is a reaction to the demands many trans activists are making that we upend key elements of our society, particularly around women's rights and privileges but also how children are being taught now. Key areas are women's private spaces, women's sports and schools hiding from parents that children are playing the role of a different gender while at school.
When these lines were crossed, many people determined that gender ideology had gone too far.
I honestly think that "live and let live" was and is perfectly possible once the excesses of the current attempted overhaul of our society stops.
Until men stop saying things like "Trans women are women" instead of "trans women deserve respect as any other member of society" - an ideal most people agree with - you will, unfortunately continue to experience the backlash.
I remember having a conversation with a friend 25 years ago after he had started presenting as a woman. He explained to me how he had tried everything to feel comfortable in his male body and simply couldn't do it. I believed him then and still believe him. I and our entire friend group had zero problem with him.
Trans activists making unreasonable demands-and the rest of society seemingly going along with it out of fear of being labeled a transphobe-are ruining it for everyone.
@@AndreAngelantoni Thanks. Yes I agree. I went to a pride festival over this past summer. The overt sexuality around children was too much. I didn't feel comfortable and decided to leave. There were many young teens there carrying trans flags or other flags. There were children under 10 years old in the audience of a drag show (not full-on, but still very sexual in nature). I left feeling very sad and confused about how and why things have gotten this way. Why is there a "drag story hour" for kids? Whose idea was that and why is it so prevalent? Why would someone want to dress in drag and read to children, and why would someone feel comfortable taking their kids to that? I just don't get it. I just want to pass, blend in, and live life- find love, and have special moments and memories. I think a lot of us do.
I express myself when I can, in person (rarely) and on-line. I don't know. the problem seems so big. It would be good to have an LGBTQ organization that works against this, instead of for it. I know there is LGB alliance. I guess they kicked us out, haha. it's ok, I understand. Part of the problem is that I don't want to expose myself and draw attention to myself as trans. I don't want to be on the front lines, with people doxxing me and digging into my life to exploit my failings.
Anyways, I should go- thank you for writing 💜maybe more soon...
@@jeng3609 Thank you for your thoughtful response. I encourage you to add your voice to the conversation. Together we can stand for acceptance of each member of society while acknowledging that there are accommodations (private spaces for women, women's only sports leagues, etc.) and boundaries (such as preventing the child sexualization you mentioned) that are also appropriate.
And I also do get that you are trying to blend in. However, I suspect all of us will regret more on our deathbed not finding the courage to speak (that is, failing to say what needed to be said) rather than saying things that needed to be said.
Regarding blending in, you raise a critical point. The key distinction between the gay rights movement and the modern transgender movement is actually what you are pointing out.
Gay people wanted to "come out of the closet" and be visible. In contrast, transgender people want to pass without comment.
Thus it never made sense for the transgender people to join the LBG people-the two groups are working at cross-purposes.
Plus, increasingly more gay people are coming to realize that many transgender people are simply taking on the other gender because they were struggling with feelings of attraction to the same sex. Instead of coming out as gay, people are choosing to present as the other sex.
This is *another* reason for the gay community not to support transgender ideology as it's currently being expressed.
The "you can always tell" is a pretty old one and not exclusive to transsexuals. It's one of those base things that "trans activism," for a lack of a better distinguishment, takes it's subversion from. It's shrouded in the sort of plausible-deniability of that notion vaguely being true in the majority, but not actually true, such that it may be a casually come upon belief by anyone who hasn't had the experience by example to know better.
That's the use of "always" for ya... Anyways, to reiterate, it also has gotten used towards any androgyny, anyone naturally butch/femme (in both directions as in female woman being wrongfully treated as male and called female, some irony in those instances), cross-dressing including just for clothing aesthetic, and so on.
"If it wasn't that, it'd be something else" I think applies to most of such people. And you can usually tell by more than the "always" as someone making a features comment usually says more with acknowledgement so I wouldn't place that on them other then being particular and exacting. Tone is usually a give-away, as well.
And to go with the above, it's not always someone against either; need only consider how any brand of activist behaves against those they view as their enemies. (ex. even a full self-id activist if you're a dissenter or have aggrieved them will pull out that same knife)
With that... I've found/suggest that understanding of it being a tactic in most probably instances at least helps alleviate for such actions; not fully, but a "it helps to know" kinda thing.
Also hi again~ 🦊💙
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And of course... and as an aside... I wouldn't be able to fully agree with Andre's comment. I take issue with what seems to be the contemporary usage of "rights" with the use of "women's rights" implying segregated "rights" and the blaming of men. Similar to what I think is the sentiment of _""Until men stop saying things like "Trans women are women" instead of "trans women deserve respect as any other member of society""_ , that it should be "the rights of women" as an arbitrary demographic selection and not an adjective implying "rights" specific to explicit demographic (issues with implying mutual exclusivity, and and imply imposition, rather the universal right by principle of humanity).
Also... I would say _"Trans women are women"_ but since I consider "sex/gender split" that is simply a redundancy for me as am no invoking and interpolation between "women" and "female" and to what degree and which sector of the conflated assigned demographic is being used, cause all those other vaguely associated types of people are also claimed as is convenient and beyond.
Interpolation, as one way to say it, is a major point of linguist manipulate being widely employed. I'd point out that _"ideal most people agree with"_ is *not* the meaning of _"Trans women are women"_ being alluded to and so it cannot be such a linguistic replacement, it's not the intent even if that's the intended perception.
@@AndreAngelantoni Hi there. I agree about adding voice, though I don't think I have a lack of courage in most situations. I try to add my voice in ways that feel safe to me. Though I'm not planning to end up in a death bed- I don't want to live that long!
I don't know when the T was added to LGB. I always thought it was more for solidarity between people who face similar prejudice and stigma, even though they differ in other ways. I am bisexual and trans, and I think that even though I am "B", they probably wouldn't accept me because I'm also "T". See what I mean? haha. I'm not sure it matters. I understand the reasoning, LGB is strictly about sexual orientation and I think it's great that they are consolidating and organizing against childhood transition.
OMG Sasha. I feel for you. I once jumped on a plane with my colleague's carry on while he grabbed a smoke before boarding. While he too his time, I informed the flight attendants he was on his way and that I had his bag. Long and short, the airline eventually closed the door and backed from the gate before my colleague boarded. I got up out of my seat with the carry on, while in taxi and executed my powers of persuasion (jedi mind tricks) stating "my colleague has nothing. This carry on has everything. I don't care how you do it. This bag needs to get off this plane. Throw it out a window. I don't care." The flight attendant processed the honor i was experiencing through my eyes. She Took the bag from me and spoke to the pilots. They pulled back up to the gate, open the doors, threw the bag off, shut the door, then pushed off the gate AGAIN, before take off. My efforts allowed my colleague to get a hotel room that night and catch the next flight in the morning.
" Phew ! " Airlines NEVER do that. But, I'm just so darn charming I guess. 🐿
Great information!
The only thing with the "you can always tell" "myth" is that is an innate ability. You can measure it in 6 month old children. It's common for numerous animals because it's a survival mechanism.
I get that you can't literally always tell but as a man I'm taller than 98%+ of females for example.
This is more of a reaction to the myth that most trans women pass.
It's more that trans men can fly under the radar because short men go unnoticed and if you're balding and have a beard ppl think man.
We can't "always tell" if we don't need to know--some people in some hallway that we are passing by...we would clock them via their predominant visual characteristics, as we ultimately don't care. But the moment we are 1:1 and we NEED to know, and we see the whole person, not a photo, we CAN tell. Buck has incredibly feminine speech patterns, for example.
But ultimately whether we can tell or not tell is irrelevant, because it is a deception anyway. The only context where it is relevant is ideology. When activists such as Kelly Jay Keen and writers such as Helen Joyce say that we can always tell, they are setting a boundary-“You, grifter, stay away. I am a woman. I will always know.”
When Sasha and Stella say that well, no, you can't always tell, they are prepping the ground for "what if transitioning was a viable and manageable long-term goal for your child." AND they ARE prepping the ground for "some children will benefit from transitioning", because if the goal of transitioning is "to pass" so that "no one could tell" and this is an achievable goal, then earlier transition is obviously better.
I think they have ideologically fallen and it will be more and more evident in the next year.
@@badgerravens408 Didn't Sasha literally say there are no circumstances for her that minor transition is correct and Stella said that ppl are trying to make out earlier gender dysphoria sufferers are fine to transition and she's very against it in this very video?!
They've never ever expressed the idea that ppl should transition to pass to my knowledge.
I think you've been incredibly unfair to them. They literally contradict your claims in this video. Neither of them believe in children transitioning at all. Did you watch this video?
@@robertmarshall2502 if you read and listen carefully, they literally say different things at different contexts.
@@badgerravens408 Then you can literally give an example.
Otherwise it's daft to write what you wrote on a video which completely contradicts your viewpoint explicitly. It gives the impression you couldn't be bothered to listen.
@@robertmarshall2502 okay. Remember when they had GETA, Gender Exploratory Therapy Assocciation? Have you noticed it was recently renamed as Therapy First? Have you looked at their "about" section? Have you noticed that sexual orientation is used as a parallel term with "gender identity"? Have you asked yourself why this terms is there, in that sentence, with that very same follow up sentence? Why Therapy First, i.e. Genspect, i.e. Sasha and Stella are legitimizing the term "gender identity" instead of getting rid of it or putting it in quotation marks? Fair enough, they ARE saying, that childhood medicalisation, except for some very rare cases, is not ethical. Yet they are legitimising the term "gender identity" in children and teens; they are saying that "gender identity" is not something they set out to change--replace the term with "eating disorder" or "body dysmorphia" and see if the sentence in question still works. Then ask yourself why a child can have an "AGP sexuality" and why this is being promoted by this podcast. And if a child can have an AGP "sexuality" then certainly a child can have a "gender identity." And if a child can have a gender identity and treating it is cruel and coercive, as per Therapy First, then what is the next logical conclusion? You might say that I'm reading too much into this. Fair enough. I do hope, very much so, that I'm wrong. But my eyes have very much openned and my almost blind trust in "Sasha and Stella" is gone. www.therapyfirst.org/statement/
Ahhh, I would have accidentally left my laptop too!
😂 🙌
I know that your general focus is on providing advice and support for the parents of kids that say they're trans, and suspect, because of this, the parents you deal with will be mostly sane, caring and prepared to learn, but I just wanted to say that awful parents and parenting is sometimes an elephant in the room during your podcasts. There really are some terrible terrible people in the world, and those people have children.
I know you are both fully aware of this, and how the cohort of parents that you deal with will inevitably be more considered than the huge numbers that don't seek you guys out. It's just that sometimes it feels a little bit too much like you are pushing an idea of desperate, distraught parents rending their clothes in despair, prepared to do anything, when the reality is much a more complicated one. Parents that don't care, parents who abuse, parents that cannot love, homophobic parents, parents that never learned to put their children first, jealous parents, parents that can never be wrong... They are all out there, some of them have trans kids, the "reactionary" dynamic, kids kicking against genuinely poor or abusive parenting must be a factor in this epidemic, especially for girls I suspect.
Anyway you both do a brilliant job, this is a minor point! I just felt compelled to say something when considering trans kids being "thrown out of the house". My own father threw me out of the house because I'd finished school and he didn't want me hanging around anymore! He didn't need a bigger reason than that! X
I am not sure what you mean by "awful (terrible, terrible) parents". You are mixing in a whole lot of variables of convenience.
Abusive parents likely make it impossible for a minor to even consider transistion. The minor would be terrified to even go there.
Even in your case, when did your father become abusive? When he booted you out? Was there a behavioural expectation you felt compelled to adhere to. I don't want to downplay your point or experience. It's just seems for some it's abusive when a parent cuts data and cell phone access.
@@markrussell3428 I don't know what to say in response either of your points.
@@PaulCarr1 Thanks. Let me clarify because i dont see the elephant.
My point is there are outliers - people that become parents who shouldn't be. There are bad parents for any number of reasons and they shouldn't be parents. This includes: circumstances exacerbated by a lack of extended family support, drugs, economic situation, intellectual capacity, victims of abuse that dont know better. I still see these circumstances as the outliers and would go so far as to say these kids are LESS at-risks.
We really need to resolve a claim that "being trans" is an issue among youth/minors who are prodimently "at-risk" of being harmed or part of the marginalized group or are victimized. There are different populations. This includes the everyday children who believe in Santa Claus and are confused with being born in the wrong body. These children are groomed. They are being confused by the Genderbread Man and Gender Unicorn. It's everyday children fed garbage that leads them to question who they are rather that letting the child mature and grow up in a society rooted in order rather than queer chaos.
Puberty is NOT a medical condition requiring treatment. It is a huge step in human development that for 99% of adolescents progresses NORMALLY. It's not easy but it's not a medical condition. ROGD becomes an off shoot trans group when maturation is disrupted. This is largely female.It likely emanates from the perceived unrealistic and daunting expectations placed on young adolescents girls and "girl power". Thank a feminist for this. Society cultivates psychological disorders and results in generational social phenomena (anorexia, bolemia, cutting, witch trials). This group is at-risk but not as a result of bad parents. It has grown unnecessarily because of medical malpractice and negligence. A wilful blindness to ignore the lack of evidence or to simply make up evidence to support the eventual sex change procedures. It all begin with grooming children along this path.
Then we have teacher's. They should be involved with what you describe. They have a responsibility to report "real abuses", especially that involving malnutrition, neglect and physical abuse. Where they go off the rails is as providers of gender indoctrination and "shielding" children from their parents. This is unacceptable. They should be held accountable for witholding ANY information realted to a childs health and well-being. Why is trans viewed as some exception?
The research from the trans-cult is pretty clear. Confuse the child early and you have them captured. Medicalize them and, despite the increased level of suicides, you can convince many they are the opposite sex. In the right environment you can behaviourally condition child and line them up for a life of medicalization. Well, until they are about 30, by that time they have detransitioned or are dead. Look close at longitudinal studies. The number of subjects the researchers "have lost contact with" is way more significant than the trash conclusions they try to make.
There's no such thing as "REAL trans". It's horrendous abuse to (chemically OR surgically) mutilate ANY child, for no evidence-based reason.
If CONSENTING ADULTS choose to self-mutilate, to imitate the superficial appearance of the opposite sex, that's their choice, just like ANY form of religious mutilation.
But physiologically harming a 100% healthy child, without any empirical evidence justifying it, is a massive violation of "first do no harm".
I will never give up on my son, and that he will "be himself" with no mental need of a female persona
I think the people who say “I can always tell” mean they can tell someone has transitioned, be it a male or a female. Meaning I can personally tell if a biological female has transitioned, whether she’s detrans or not. Detrans women are masculinated to such an extent they often DO look similar to a male who is trying to pass as female. Unfortunately. But I think it’s really shit to say to people as a some kind of jab. I’ve known so many trans people in my lifetime that I have a very developed transdar. I don’t think some of the people who say they can tell CAN actually tell. Those of us who have been watching ppl transition for 20+ years can tell.
You can't always tell? Hmm, have a chat with Helen Joyce.
Ok~ but pulls in some own.
- "sex/gender split" concepts would aid with explaining ( 56:55 ) and with some hypothesizes for why those would be the worst, including/in-part young children "don't have gender," not particular or at least not as stereotypical demanded partially from modern/post-industrial sex segregation/over-distinction of children: puberty, play, imagination, etc.
- over casual and/or "cure-all" and/or excuse to blame fetish (keep it scoped into sexualization only) use of "AGP" and accepting of Blanchard. Shouldn't be grouped in demographically in that manner, as is partaking in the arbitrary construction of representation demographics that the exploitation and extortion is based and is an incorrect manner of defining a demographic -- out of scope, no observational (is assigning),...
- as for "women's rights" that's it's own issue and falsehood that needs addressing that makes that "myth" even more ridiculous and because it forms a bases for many of the other misrepresentations and an implied "right to impose" through segregated privileges ("positive rights" given, not innate... connected with the a form of "positivity bias" including "positive" is inherent good and the converse). See below.
- Some of these are too short to address full hierarchical meaning, because for the people that espouse them they are true due to their meaning of works being completely different. Depending on the person, more verbosity may be helpful if you have someone open yet highly off-loading of authority as you'll be needing to challenge their authorities 'merit'/grounds. (A bit of being at risk of "preaching to the quire.")
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_"""On the topic of "rights" and linguistic games:_
_1. Semantics, "[blank] rights are human rights" is the wrong order. This order implies that human rights is a collection of different rights and where they do and don't over lap (think stereotypical venn-diagram), rather than rights being universal from our humanity and how they bare differently in context. This therefore implies a right to imposition where they don't overlap. The proper and correct order would be "'human' rights are [blank] rights" validating that rights are universal from our humanity, and despite differences in how they bare they originate from a shared universal right. (think one circle encompasses all others)_
_2. A quote of that restated/explained in words rather than semantic correction._
_"[W]hen distinct from," There are no 'distinct from' rights, not women's or otherwise._
_"" There is only natural universal "human" rights, not segregated privileges. I am not particularly interested, regardless of how good or meaningful anyone is or from where or fighting from what, if they're going to continue the use of that divisive rhetoric and semantics to position it as segregated privileges. "Oh, but things of different..." No, nothing is different, any variance is still founded from the exact same right, for the same reason, and means. And the focus on solely identity of interest itself promulgates this segregation into privileges, not rights, as such they are treated and envisioned as a unique privilege for identity/group and not understanding of the right for why and universal protection. ""_
_"""_
Excellent
Do they mention John Money?
My son is a vulnerable adult
The greatest myth, misconception or exaggeration about gender, is that anyone is an expert on the matter. Every single person will have their own perspectives to sift through as they experience the swarm of opinion that our society is subject to. While science may say one thing today, it could change as soon as tomorrow. Transition needs will evolve into treatments that people can't see clearly as yet. One day, maybe soon, people will be able to transition at faster and faster rates than previously thought possible. The most important aspect of how this is addressed should be through open minded support and the effort to make access available before puberty can make that much more difficult for people in society. There is nothing good that comes from being excluded from the social groups that we would prefer, while being accepted with open arms by the ones we don't. Stereotyping holds us back from being our best selves, even the ones who feel their fit in society is appropriate for them.
Listen, male and female are different and determined at conception. Gender is imaginary. You might as well say that you are a cat. If gender is something that only exists in someone's head, than gender has nothing to do with the real world and we should not construct policy and laws around something that is so subjective.
@@samuelsnow8714 Your opinion is fair but, it doesn't hold the truth for everyone else that it does for you. I made a statement about being open minded and you clearly are uncomfortable with that. The rest of society will not sit around waiting for your approval. Life goes on and takes many kinds to go around. Everybody deserves the right to choose for themselves and medical advancement has made that easier for every single person to pursue.
An “in advance” myth buster for the AGP post conference morass to come. Another great episode! I especially appreciated the discussion on the balancing act we have as parents between our children naturally “unfolding” and parents knowing when and how to intervene to give them healthy boundaries and guidance.
Why do you think parents would know when and how to intervene?
Stella, when you spoke to Kelly, you affirmed a lot of myths and misconceptions to try and get on her good side. You need to try and stay scientific. Bring Michael Bailey back on, talk to James Cantor again, or Ray Blanchard, or Ken Zucker. Sucking up to Kelly is NOT the right course of action. TRUTH (science) will get us to where we need to go.
No, not Blanchard, anyone but him. That suggestion would be as bad if not worse than her.
"You need to try and stay scientific. "
What has she published in peer-reviewed literature?
We can't "always tell" if we don't need to know--some people in some hallway that we are passing by...we would clock them via their predominant visual characteristics, as we ultimately don't care. But the moment we are 1:1 and we NEED to know, and we see the whole person, not a photo, we CAN tell. Buck has incredibly feminine speech patterns, for example.
But ultimately whether we can tell or not tell is irrelevant, because it is a deception anyway. The only context where it is relevant is ideology. When activists such as Kelly Jay Keen and writers such as Helen Joyce say that we can always tell, they are setting a boundary-“You, grifter, stay away. I am a woman. I will always know.”
When Sasha and Stella say that well, no, you can't always tell, they are prepping the ground for "what if transitioning was a viable and manageable long-term goal for your child." AND they ARE prepping the ground for "some children will benefit from transitioning", because if the goal of transitioning is "to pass" so that "no one could tell" and this is an achievable goal, then earlier transition is obviously better.
I think they have ideologically fallen and it will be more and more evident in the next year.
Moderator here--You are putting words in Sasha and Stella's mouths. The point they were making is that testosterone is a very strong drug and, for better or worse, a number of women are currently taking testosterone and if and when those women de-transition and return to using female spaces, their bodies and their voices might be very alarming to other women who will then "clock" them as male. This is something we will need to grapple with. That is the only point being made her.