Foil vs Single Skin vs LEI for Foilboarding
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- In this video we compare a foil kite to a single skin kite to an inflatable kite for foilboarding in light wind. We discuss the power, low end performance, relaunch, cost, advantages and disadvantages of each kite in our opinion, based on our real life experience hydrofoiling with each kite on our large foil wing in marginal wind. Enjoy!
Kitejunkie relaunching PEAK4 69/70 times • Kitejunkie relauches F...
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I've been using the Peak4 kites for foiling for approx. 18 months. (Disclosure, I'm a Flysurfer retailer). With a surf foil they are unbeatable for ease of use, have phenomenal drift and are great for surfing waves, swell and wind chop. Each Peak4 has an optimum wind range and you know when you've gone outside the range as the kite will start to flap a little.
The 5m Peak4 will only need a couple of knots more wind than the 8m Peak4 to get foiling. It's the kite with the most windrange of all the Peak4 kites as it tends to work best between 10 to 20 knots depending on your weight and foil.
The smaller 3m and 4m Peak4 kites are incredible fun and fast. The ability to instantly depower the Peak4 makes it great for gusty winds and manoeuvres and also makes it very safe to use. In an emergency you can just crash the kite and it will collapse and not easily relaunch. They are also the quickest kites to set up and take down of any kite type and can be used with just about any 4 line bar.
Because of the low cost of the Peak4 many owners have 2 or 3 to cover a wide range of wind so the fun never ends :-)
Relaunching from the water takes a bit of practice but if you practice your relaunch technique in shallow water and become familiar with the kite you'll be able to relaunch most of the time. However the Peak4 loves to stay in the air, even in 3 knots, so you have to dive the kite into the water to crash it. Even when you have a kite that can't relaunch they are easy to pack down on the water so you can swim in. However as with any kite, something can fail unexpectedly, so don't go further out than you're prepared to swim.
The Peak4 has made foiling loads of fun for myself and other Peak4 users. It's well worth reading the Peak4 thread on Kiteforum, it's a fantastic resource with contributions from many experienced Peak4 users.
crusher2u I use the Peak4 8m in 8-13knots with pocket foilboard and Armstrong 1200 foil. Absolutely love it. Like you said, fast smooth and tons of power. Everyone else’s kites, even the Duotone Mono is falling out of the sky and I’m rolling. It does take some patience learning to land keeping the line straight other than that it an awesome kite. I plan on getting a 5m also.
Wow, thanks for the comment! Lots of great info. We're looking forward to trying smaller Peaks in the future - especially the 5, which seems to be everyone's favourite. We did dive into the KiteForum thread - admittedly didn't read all 144+ pages though :) Cheers!
Crusher2u's comments are excellent. Most kiter's consider the Peak4 8m to be a sluggish kite and the 5m to be quite lively and fun. They flap annoyingly unless well sheeted but they want to stay in the air better than other kites... until you fly them into the water. I've helped tow a Peak4 kiter who went too far from shore!
The power delivered is a function of the projected area (first order approximation) though the Soul (double skin foil) should be the most efficient. As you can see below (best viewed on a PC), you need a much bigger LEI (probably a 10m, maybe an 11m) to match the power of an 8m foil kite. The Kg/M2 approximates the drift/desire to stay in the air, lower numbers are better.
Size (M2), Projected Area (M2), % Projected, Kg/M2
Stoke LEI (3-strut) 7m 4.8(est.) 69%(est.) .40
OR Roam(A) LEI (3-strut) 10m 6.9(est.) 69%(est.) .20
Peak4 (single skin) 8m 6.8 85% .15
Soul 8m 6.7 83% .22
BRM Cloud D_0 8m 5.5(est.) 69%(est.) .21
BRM Cloud D_0 10.4m 7.2(est.) 69%(est.) .18
Slingshot UFO 9m 6.2(est.) 69%(est.) .22*
Notes:
OR Roam(A) is the new A-series.
% projected area estimates are based on Switch Kite's website, 69-70% for their light 3-strut kites.
* Kg/M2 was calculated from the Mfr's stated size and weight. Slingshot's UFO weight came from a forum.
crusher2u Thanks for the review. For low wind foil boarding which size of Peak 4 would you recommend (if only having one of them in add to LEI kites)? The bigger the better or other thoughts?
@@Toffen62 I would start with the 5m and make sure your foil is a surf foil of at least 1000 sq cm. Depending on your weight and local wind conditions, the 5m Peak4 should get you foiling in approx 8-10 knots. All the kite has to do is get you out of the water onto the board and then getting onto the foil shouldn't be too hard.
The 5m is the most flexible and easy Peak4 to start with, and once you've tried it you'll know which size Peak4 to get next. One is never enough and you won't go back to your existing kites very often after a Peak4 experience :-)
I love my 8m peak4. Even though I had a few swimming incidents the kite stays up in the air at 4-5kts easily. With 6-7kts I can foil and it’s very easy to handle. You can launch it quite close to trees as it’s very predictable and flies extremely well and easy. It also doesn’t pull you up which is a good and bad thing. Obviously it’s not a kite for jumping but the fact that it can be flown safely in difficult starting areas makes it worth the tradeoff.
I also have a 15m soul but haven’t touched it for foiling anymore since I got the peak.
Nice! What foil board / wing size do you use with your Peak4?
@@OurKiteLife I have a 2017 hover glide nf2. The frontwing is 56cm wide/14cm deep.
Hi. Where do you kite most of the time would you mind sharing some of the wind and places I also have the same kite and I like to know what the limits are
@@sergemann5951 I kite in Austrian lakes with winds from 5-14kts. In stronger winds I use Rebels and TT
With my Peak4 8m, its a 50% water relaunch, however you really need to dump it badly more so as the kite just likes to sit at 12 o’clock nicely, if you happen to dump it leading edge down below 8 knots don’t pull on the lines as it will make it sink, swim to it and turn on trailing edge and wait for a gust, it will peel off the water until it drains the side bags, no need to pull on lines, once canopy fills with air it will hot launch by it self, great fun kite no dramas if you don’t push your luck, you are better off learning foil jibes on a LIE kite as you are likely to over run the kite until you sort your timing. Also on strong winds it will fold like a taco and it flutters like crazy, a sign to pack it and get out a kite with more structure, great winter kite.
Thanks for the useful tips and insights on the Peak!
Fantastic kite for foiling, flys in as little as 3 knots, and like "Self-Rescue-Phil' says you literally have to deliberately fly it into the water to get it so you need to relaunch it. Its been our best selling kite this year, as the reasonably priced 5m and 8m covers a windrange of 10-20 knots with a meduim sized free ride foil. It has replaced a 9m and 7m Duotone Neo for me, and it has ignited my passion for kiting again. Waiting for Perth strong summer winds and its a 3m to add to the the 11, 8 and 5 quiver!!
I fly LEIs on the water, but wanted a light, easy-to-pack kite for landboarding and snowkiting. Bought an 8m Peak 4 last year. Took a few flights to get used to it, but I soon found it to be easy to fly in just about any conditions. The price is right, so I also picked up an 11m with a second bar. With a bar for each, need to rig - just lay out the lines and launch - especially helpful if you need to switch kites half-way out on a lake. The B-safe line makes it easy to bring down the kite in high and gusty winds, so I feel comfortable heading out on my own, or where there is no one to help launch/land. However, I can see where the soul is a better kite for water - both in terms of keeping its shape and water launching.
Oh, and others have mentioned drift. Amazing - when landboarding I may need to turn down-wind to miss rocks, etc. The kite drifts perfectly as if waiting for you to put tension on the lines again. An important skill to learn in light wind is to grab on the floaters if a quick turn is required.
Regarding the fluttering, IMHO the Peak is designed to be ridden sheeted in. Only when you need lots of depower you can let the bar go... and then it flutters.
I'm using it for snowkiting in the mountains, where that on/off behavior is fine : sheet in for power, loop for more power, sheet out when you're at the top.
And it's small and light, which is perfect when you have some skinning to do prior to the kiting.
With a foil on the water it's totally possible to fly it sheeted in, I don't like like the flutter so I always did that. It's just different to LEI Kites, you have to get used to keep sheeted in, and also choose a peak that's not overpowered in the current wind. I guess she was overpowered with the 8qm peak, the 5qm really would have fitted better in that wind.
Good review as always ! I have a 5m Peak4 and a quiver of BRM Clouds which I am very used to. I like the excellent drift of the Peak and its simplicity. It really stays in the air with almost no wind, Even if this is may not seem that important in this small size because you will be using it in at least with 10-12 knots and any kite will fly in that wind, it is a good indication of its good drift when you ride downwind and apparent wind nears cero. It is responsive with little line tension. It is impossible to front stall it, no matter how hard or how long you pull from the front lines the kit stays in the air. It recover easily from back stalls and stall spins. But being used to the smoothness and agility of Clouds I don't get used to the Peak. The Peak tends to turn in a wider arc. You can make it pivot around a wingtip but to do so you have to almost stall it loosing all the pull during turn. With Clouds you can turn very sharply keeping a constan pull during turn. I have tried the Peak with 12m lines to make increase agility, and it feels better. But with such short lines you have to be very careful not to drop the kite in the water while learning new maneuvers involving kiteloops (like 360s) because you have less time to react. So I keep using the Clouds all the time except when I want extreme drift
Thanks for the comment! We've yet to try the Clouds but would definitely love to if given the chance :)
Nice job again. Have used the 4m Peak in 15 kts and up on a big wing. 50% on relaunch, it really helps to have a friend with you who can expose the leading edge to the wind if required :) Have done this a few times now. If you do need to self rescue, it packs down quickly but as there is no air inside, it doesn’t sit up on the water and sinks just a little. Not an issue and infinitely easier than packing down a 15m soul! Lots of fun in the waves where you can pretty much ride straight down wind. Terrific in the snow as expected. The peak is great fun in the small sizes (3,4,5) but not a replacement for a soul.
Thanks Alan! Appreciate the insights on self rescue with the Peak4 :)
Hi Alan :) for snow, would you recommend soul (10, 12 ) or peak 5m ? if you have experience, I appreciate you will share, thank you very much (70kg woman)
@@thedeni5314 souls are great if you plan on using in the water. If only snow a 5 or maybe a 6 but haven’t used those sizes yet.
Honestly the reason you were getting as much flapping on the Peak 4 as you were is because you were overpowered. I'm 165 lbs and I find that my 5m Peak 4's ideal wind speed is 12 knots. I can water start in 9 knots (but it's hard and requires head deep water), using a NP Glide L foil (with small stab). The main draw of the Peak 4 is to ride way upwind and then surf the waves back downwind without power in the kite. The reason the Peak 4 is so amazing at this is that once you start foiling on the wave you'll only be getting 4-5 knots of apparent wind on the kite and it's the only kite that can still fly (and not just fly, but fly responsively) in these winds.
The other area the Peak 4 excels at is teaching, especially light weight riders. It's the only kite you can easily learn on in 9 knots of wind because it flies so well and responsively even at those wind speeds. Any other kite at those wind speeds and you really need to already know what you are doing and how the kite will react as there will be a big lag between input and response. On top of that it's super safe and has almost zero loft even when flying right through the middle of the window.
I was also surprised to hear you describe the Peak 4 as "challenging", personally I've only flown the 5m but I think it's the least challenging kite to fly in the world. It's so well behaved and reactive, you pretty much have to steer it in to the water to crash it. With a large foil wing it's also extremely easy to gybe with.
I've never flown a Soul though, just Peaks and LEIs. I would say the 5m Peak 4 is about a 7-8m LEI in terms of power for foiling.
That's possible, although I can't say I ever felt overpowered on the 8m while riding. We also gave it to a very good local foilboarder (much better than me) to try in 8 knots. He struggled to get going and he's ~170 lbs, and the kite was fluttering still.
Our wind measurement is pretty accurate as we have a wind sensor installed at 15m height - but obviously the wind quality can vary from spot to spot. It would've been interesting to compare it to the 4m or 5m for reference though. Also would've been great to try it in waves as you described, but we don't get much of those where we are :)
As for saying it's 'challenging' - perhaps not the best word choice. For me, the fluttering was something to get used to at first. With the Soul, I can park the kite and enjoy a nice smooth ride. With the Peak, I was always aware of how much I was sheeting in the bar/reducing the flapping. That's not to say I didn't enjoy it - I had a great time with the kite, but it was a different experience than what I'm used to.
@@OurKiteLife The kite will flutter if you let the bar go, just as a sail on a sailboat would. It's easy to sheet it correctly and if so it should not be flapping in 8 knots. I would guess at your weight the ideal range of the 8m is 10-12 knots. The Peak 4 is really on/off when it comes to sheeting and I find that with the flutter it actually helps you get the sheeting right.
Awesome video. I’ve gone to a full set of Peak 4’s now due to their light wind stability and drift. I am currently 100% success for relaunching so far, but I’ve only dropped the 5 about 3 times. Keep up the great work !!!! 🤙
Thanks! Curious if you use your Peak4s for snowkiting and/or landboarding too? We really want to try them for snowkiting this winter
Our Kite Life I live in Western Australia so no snow here. I prefer foiling in lighter winds, but the Peaks also work well in strong wind on a surfboard for a downwinder.
You probably should compare something like a 10m single-strut inflateable kite to the two foil kites. How do you like an 8m Peak compared to say, a 9m Slingshot UFO or a 10m Ozone Alpha? I know Flysurfer doesn't make a kite comparable to either of these, which is one of the downsides of being associated with a particular brand. I think I would take either of those inflatables over 7m wave kite for foiling in light winds, though, and save the 7m Stoke for 15-20 knots.
That's a fair point. The choice to use the Stoke was more to do with timing, not brand restrictions. We're planning on reviewing/comparing kites outside of FS, just takes time to coordinate.
If the peak is fluttering, you should try rigging a size smaller peak. Peaks are extremely efficient. The 5m is a great "light" wind kite to learn single skin foil kites.
Good to know! The 5m seems to be a favourite size of a lot of kiters
Thanks for this video - so useful to understand the difference! Someone asked me a week or so ago if my foil kite was a “Single Skin” and I had no clue what they meant! “Know I now :-)”. It was very cool to learn about the Peak and read the comments. For me back to Sweden tomorrow from Portugal and I am going with 11m Hyperlink Foil v3 kite and 8m Enduro. Will then travel to Naples, Palermo & Lo Stagnone in Italy in July for 16 days. Still on a twin-tip but want to try foil board. Trying to find the best travel combos. My theory I am testing is that it is better with 2 light weight compact kites and leave my 11m/14m & 17m Zephyr at home - especially when the trip is kite plus other activities. I may even sell the 17m Zephyr as the 11m foil is proving to be better.
Interesting, as always. I will Start foiling on a kite Board in october in the Fall holidays and I am looking foreward to testing different kites, as I am used to the Soul in light Wind. I have only Foil experiance on windsurf boards, so ist will be a new challenge.
Yeah we learned to foil with Souls, but now it’s fun to try to different gear
Duotone Mono 7 M and 9 M. Just got a Slingshot 7M UFO ,downloops, frontloops, super fast for turns,transitions :) ......it does the same job as the 9M Duotone Mono for the same windspeed. Addhigh relative humidity for same windspeed and you gotta work it harder for the waterstarts. Once up ,you move along nicely.
Nice - we’ll look into those kites for future comparison/review videos :) thanks!
Your comparaison video, confirm my tough , nice filming :-)
Thanks!
Great review, I wish there was more material on how to handle the bridles on Peak 4 kite. My first year of purchasing this kite was trying to learn how to untangle my bridals and keep everything separated. Especially when there's a bit of wind. There has to be a way because I see other people do it but I cannot find enough material to learn from.
I know Flysurfer doesn’t make one, but I would have liked for you to throw in a single strut kite. I have Souls, but also bought a single strut kite for foiling as well.
We agree. Truthfully, we were on a tight timeline to film this video though and didn't have access to a single strut kite at the time of filming.
you should have tested the Peak 5m, way more lively than the 8m and slightly more powerful than the Stoke 7m (I fly the Peak 5m in 10-11 kts on a Moses 790)
We’ve heard that the 5m is a great size for the Peak4. Hopefully we’ll be able to try it out in the future :)
Hi! I love your videos, as you make such a positive atmosphere that is highly above the average! :-) And of course the videos are very informative also and we can learn from those. I also use your videos to learn the English language :-))) Many greetings from Hungary and thank you for the videos!!! :-)
Thank you, and greetings from Canada!
I hear different opinions on the proper size of Soul to get, and it is confusing. If I'm 77-82 kg (170-180 lbs), and using either a Slingshot Infinity 76 or Slingshot H2 foil (1534 cm^2 or 960 cm^2, known for stable light wind riding), and I want to foil in light winds of somewhere around 8-13 or 10-13 knots, what size Soul would you recommend? Especially if there are lulls that cause LEI kites to fall out of the sky, which is a main reason to look to foil kites, and where the interest is to just go around, not do jumps or anything, and the skill level is beginner to intermediate (not being able to gybe through basic gybing skills). I have heard 8m from you guys (for quickness), 10m, 12m, and 15m. Some opinions are that the 8 and 10 won't have enough power to get you going at lower wind speeds, but I don't know if that is without downlooping or if you are using a small foil or what. Other concerns I've heard are that smaller kites don't have enough pull, but larger kites are too slow and you will be overpowered very quickly. What is your experience? The idea is to be able to get out on the water on those marginal days where wind is inconsistent, and to not be frustrated. Thanks!
We would recommend going with the 10. The 10m has a big wind range and a lot of guys we know who are similar size to you enjoy it for light wind foiling. To get going in light wind you’ll need to loop it but once you’re up and foiling it’s more than enough power. All of the Souls are good at handling gusts or inconsistent wind (compared to LEIs). That being said, your personal preferences will also play a role. If you like a lot of power then maybe the 12 would be optimal, with the trade off of it being slower. Hope that helps!
Maybe a single strut or a strutless kite will give you satisfaction on the foil board since it flies in very marginal wind and it turns as quick as a LEI kite. I changed my flysurfer foil kite for a single strut kite for foiling because I often do self rescues in summer in very marginal winds while foiling. Packing and swimming back with a foil kite is such a pain!
We'd be open to giving it a shot! Thanks for the recommendation
Nice video, but I really think you're missing the reason why the Peak is such a popular kite for foiling, which is its incredible ability to drift. In small waves and around 7-8m/s wind I can comfortably ride straight towards my 4m Peak and have fun carving the waves without worrying about keeping line tension like I would on any other kite :D Also the flutter is because of the kites sensitivity to bar position. This also makes it incedible on a foilboard as you can backstall and stop the kite wherever you please in the wind window, you just have to be weary of not sheeting out too much while riding, then you get flutter.
Definitely a valid point that was not covered in this video. We had read about the drift of the Peak but given that we only had the kite to demo for a short period of time we weren’t able to try it out in waves so couldn’t speak to it in the same way that you did :)
@@OurKiteLife I understand. If you get the chance you should really try the smaller size Peaks in some waves,. I would go as far as calling it a game changer for kite foiling, as the freedom of movement and direction of the board really can't compare to any other kites :D
We’ve heard the 5m is the best size Peak to get - would you recommend that size?
@@OurKiteLife I heard the 4m was the sweet spot, so I got that one. Will typically be using it on a foil on days when twintippers use 12m.
Good to know, thanks!
I love your videos. When I make it to TO I will surely make time to connect with you and your community. With foiling the world has opened up for light wind. As you get better in your light wind skills most any light wind kite will do. The question is...how will I get back to shore when the wind drops 2 knots and my kite will not relaunch and I am a mile or 2 out from shore. The number one rule is not to trust your kite boarding buddies are going to rescue you. So what is your back up plan?
The Soul kite has the reputation of any easy relaunch. Don't trust your life on that. If even one bridal line gets behind the kite it will NOT relaunch. You have to detach your chicken loop and attach it to the board, swim out to the kite and bring the lines back in front of the kite and swim back to the board, reattach your chicken loop and then relaunch. It sounds scary to do that but it is really your only option. We are talking light wind stuff. Very hard to do in high winds but in light winds it is very safe and very possible. In very light winds I carry swim flippers. I know this is not cool and I am so embarrassed as I speed past those swimming to shore without them. (On a side note I think it it really cool to wear blue jeans while skiing in 20 below...as least I did when I was a kid).I also think it is so cool to take 2 hour hours to swim to shore rather then an hour as the cold water will make you feel so much cooler over time. Hypothermia is the "new cool".
The wonderful thing about an inflatable kite is that you are visible when the kite will not relaunch . But also if you pull in a bit on the steering line closest to shore the wind will take you to shore in no time. With a foil kite, if it retains its shape it may take you to shore, but don't count n it. Flat on the water...it is slowly becoming an anchor.
WHAT IF? That is the question you should be asking in light wind for a foil can go very quickly far from shore. What if no body knows where you are? Plus all your buddies can be watching from shore but they have no resources to help you but call the Coast Guard. What if they don't? How will you know? They may be on their 4th beer and having a great time while you are way out on the water full of fear.
I am very inspired by these Skin less kites. They are cheaper an have such a low wind range. Would love to try them out. Hope to be in TO the summer of 2021
Hey thanks for the comment! We hope you can come kite with us in TO this summer too, let us know! Definitely very good points you made that everyone should consider when kiting in light wind. For us, we don’t kite alone ever - but understand that others do. And not venturing off too far from shore - or any further than we would want to swim back. The flippers are brilliant!
Excellent video of comparing the two foil kites. What size of Soul are you using in the 8 to 12 knot wind range, while foiling with a medium to large wing. Thank you for putting these out.
Thanks! I use my 8m Soul and large foil wing for 8-12 knots. A 10m Soul would also work for that range with either a medium or large wing
in our region (Ukraine, Dzharylhach) I have never seen a foil kite to be used, only LEI. But I have a great desire to buy SOUL 3. Please help me choose the size of the kite based on the fact that my weight is 108 kg, and the average wind speed is 11-15 knots.
If you're on twin tip, 21m
Excellent review. I know sod all about foil kites as every man and his dog are on LEI kites at my spots but you do get the odd one cruising by and they look the dogs bollocks. Very educational 😜
Thanks! Haha, we love our foil kites here - it’s rare to see LEI at our home spot these days
@@OurKiteLife yes they look great. Towards the end of last season I was out with about the usual 50 odd LEI kites and noticed this one foil kite appear in the middle of the hornets nest. Have to say it looked pretty cool. They are slowly creeping in here in Oz in some areas as more people are taking up foil boarding as well. Interesting to hear how they perform well in light winds in comparison. 😜
nice video , nice people , keep it up guys 🥰 , I personaly use for foil kiting my core xlite 8m
Nice! Thanks for sharing :)
5:32 why I am leaning towards LEI.
If you get a chance testing a foil kite against an air rush altra the same size would be interesting. I have a 9m altra great for foiling. .Have just received a 8m soul .When or lock down is over in two weeks will make a comparison .
Yes - the Airush Ultra is high on our list of kites to try! Have heard great things about it
Are you using the connect bar with the b-safe system on the peak? I am wondering if all the flysurfer bars have the same lines, are the lines lighter on the connect bar than for example the force bar?
Thank you for another superb video!
What maker model and square centimeters for that foil you guys used?!
I have a 13m duotone capa and i just recomend it 🔥
Nice! We are curious to try that kite
Our Kite Life the 13m is a bit slow but when you got a 10m its perfectly fine
Our Kite Life, the Capa is a good kite, but the water relaunch isn’t that great. On the other hand, my 9m and 12m Souls are the easiest to relaunching kites I’ve ever owned! My 9m was in the water 30 minutes because the wind died. Came up a few times and the kite bow tied 3 times. Wind died again, and I started to swim to shore. As I was doing that, the lines somehow untangled, the wind came up and it relaunched with no bow tie at all. Like nothing ever went wrong! I love my Souls! Next one, 7m for high wind sessions!
Thank you it is very interesting I would have never imagined that you could ride « safely » a single skin on the water. Of course the LEI kite is really disadvantaged here not only by its smaller size but also because it is a 3 struts kite designed for wave (I don’t expect super low end ability also) like you honestly acknowledge by the way. It would be nice if you can manage to try a single strut kite. For example I have tried last year the Eleveight Os 14 (single strut) with 138x41 twintip (I am 75kg) I could ride upwind within 8/10knots, the same day with the same wind I needed 17m to ride the 3 struts kite Eleveight RS with same power (but much slower) ; of course as they are lighter single strut kite are easier to recover. I am riding for about 2 months Reedin kites and they have incredible low end abilities for a 3 struts kite. I have recently read an article where Duotone is working on a strutless LEI kite to be able to ride in Ultra Light Wind conditions as they say, they seemed to be very confident about its ability, the idea is to go give customer a serious alternative to foil kite for those who feel more comfortable/secure with LEI kite and who don’t look for optimum performance (ie:speed) in ULW conditions. Let’s see how it goes but IMHO it is a very interesting subject.
Thanks Benjamin for you comment. Yeah single strut kites would be great to compare back to back with foils and peak. Maybe even strutles kite like a UFO or cloud. Hey even Aluula. Yeah we read that article about ULW from Duotone, about the one that they claim gets going in 4 knots and relaunches in 2 knots. Its really hard to believe those claims, as the wind measurements taken on the beach are different from what they are on top. Anyways, in our view skill set, large wing, and wind quality is more important than a kite when it comes to light wind kiting. If anything that we learned from doing this review you can probably get foiling with most kites on the market in 8 knots, (just need larger LEI size and line extensions)
Our Kite Life Yep Duotone article seems too good to be true (of course wind gradient is very important) You are definitely right, skill, right kite size and wind quality are the most important in light wind. Thank you for your hard and passionate work.
8m soul comparison to 9m air rush ultra.l weigh 95kg and am 195cm tall.Wind about 8 to 10 ten knots up high starting at around 25metres.Normaly would go out with a 21 speed or a 18 boost with my kite foil board.This time l used a 150litre sup foil board with a naish xl wing.Using a 65cm bar with 28metre lines l launched the 8m soul.Walked out and climbed on board and started moving the kite to get going.As soon as l dived the kite it just back stalled. Like l said the wind was high and when you dive it down under 25metres maybe only 6 knots off wind.Ok next l tried the ultra. Normally would use the ultra on 25metre lines and 50cm bar but this time used same bar as soul.To my surprise when l got out on the board and started diving the kite l started moving and with a few pumps up l went.When you dive the ultra it has still got some pull even below the main wind line.l had no chance to get going on the soul.Still happy having the 8 metre soul as the next day it was blowing 20 to 30 knots and had a great kite with it but can not say it's a good light wind kite for me.
Thanks for sharing your experience! We have heard really good things about the Airush Ultra - hoping to try it sometime soon for foiling :)
Yay, new nice video.
Can I use peak4 13 with my twintip? or it is useful just for foiling? tnk
I ride on the Foil Cabrinha Double Agent ~820 square cm using Airush Ultra 15 Meter from 6 to 10 knoten Wind.
Nice! Have heard good things about the Airush Ultra!
Our Kite Life single Strut kite is flattering if turn quick or if lay on beach.
There is a nice new lightweight inflatable I want to try but I like Twintip too not only Foil and wave.
www.kauper-xt.com
How much do you weigh?
@@vim55k 85kg
@@andreaspoke8273 thanks. Interesting to know it's drift vs peak... What it's upper limit?
18m2 North Juice 2014 me 95Kg
I have a question. If for sometime I will go to your spot is it gonna be possible to contact with you and have session together?
Of course. Join us for a kite session anytime!
Ocean Rodeo Roam Aluula, best for foil :)
We do want to try it and compare them against foil kites
How much wind would you need on the peak 4 if using a twin tip?
did not really test it, but we we would imagine a lot, as peak4 is a very low performance kite
Watching you guys from your beginning and appreciate all your videos. If I can ask for a suggestion, I Would like to have your appreciation of the Ozone Hyperlink vs the Flysurfer Soul that you used most of the time.
Thanks
Hey, thanks so much for the kind comment! To be honest we have no experience with the Ozone Hyperlink so we can’t speak to it. Sorry!
been foiling with the peak now for a couple of months. Got a love hate relationship with it. I have never been able to relaunch it from the sea plus the lines/5 line so easy to get in a tangle setting up.
Its the 13m wonder what kiters think of this kite? should i get a smaller one? i weigh 182 pounds.
We have only tried the 8m Peak. Hopefully some other kiters can weigh in, but would also recommend checking out the Peak4 thread on Kite Forum if you haven’t already
Well done! Thanks! But IMO any inflatable kite is more safety on water in light wind day because you never know what will happen with the wind in next 10 minutes. And only one chance to survive fareaway from the beach line is inflatable kite. You can seat in water even 10 minutes and if wind start blow again you just easily relaunch your kite and return to start point. Foil kites need also and almost same wind as an inflatable kites
People very often neglect safety when go out on foil kites in light wind. I saw a lot of examples of over self confident riders on foil kites in light wind who were rescued by boat when wind died. SAFETY must wright with capitals letters only! My conclusion is: the inflatable kites for water, single skin kites just for hard surfaces, foil kites for land/snow or water racing at very good wind. I wish good rides for everyone!
Thanks for comment Travel Guide. That's a controversial topic with regards to which kite is safer, as there are a lot of different opinions. With that said in our view the skill set of a rider supercedes the type of kite you fly, whether its foil or LEI. We've seen both good and bad examples of self rescues with both types of kites, the culprit of the problem lies with a rider often not knowing what to do in given situation. Thanks again for comment and good winds for you ;)
@@OurKiteLife Of course, ride level is very important! Even professional can fail. I will wait your new video about how to selfrescue on foil kite!))) Cheers!
In light wind there is no better/safer kite. I have both LEI and foil kites. For the light wind I use Soul 15m and I see many 14-16m LEI kites around. When the wind drops to 2-3kts the other kites fall off the sky. They are hard or impossible to relaunch in light wind. Soul on the other hand can survive wind drops and can stay in the air in lighter wind conditions but once it falls down you have limited time to relaunch it. With each minute chances to relaunch are slimmer. Sometimes it is even harder to relaunch than LEI if the kite turns on its back. But you can't beat their performance. They kill any LEI kite when it comes to speed and riding upwind.
@@spqba747 when wind drops to 1,5 knots it's a close call! You MUST return to start point if you are not in suicide mode.
With all gear you should be asking yourself what is safe to do.. IMO without rescue gear etc you should not go out further then you are able to swim..no matter what kite.
My Peaks stay in the air when the wind drops to 3/4 knots and is still possible to come back to the shore with the kite in the sky. If it completely dies, you just simply pack it down to a small package and put it on your board and swim back. When packed correctly it is possible to water start again when the wind picks up. The Peak is a safe foil kite, just know how to handle it. You can be completely self supporting in almost all conditions.
Thanks for the review. For low wind foil boarding which size of Peak 4 would you recommend (if only having one of them in add to LEI kites)? The bigger (13) the better or other thoughts?
So far we only have experience with the 8m Peak4 so can’t really say what we’d recommend. Hopefully another kiter can chime in here - otherwise check out the Peak4 thread on Kite Forum
I and others like starting with the 5m as your first peak4. A 5m starts around 10 knots with a large foil. The 5m is still pretty fast to turn. Larger peaks get you a couple knots lower start. Larger peaks turn slower and have significantly lower max wind. In max wind, the peaks flap. You can minimize flap by edging way upwind or going straight downwind. For foiling, I would compare the 5m peak4 equivalent to a 8-9m LEI single-strut/strutless on power while staying in the air significantly better in lulls. If your low winds are steady, you could start bigger.
Hi, have you tried the single skin kite in 13/20kts and Twin tip or directional boards? I often use a 11m2 LEI kite on the sea to play with waves and make some jumps. Would it be a good replacement option? Same size or smaller single skin?
Hey, no we did not try the single skin with twin tip - just on the foilboard. When there’s enough wind for twin tip riding we prefer foils for jumping :)
Peaks won’t work with TT or SB.. no lift for jumping and sitting too much back in the window. It would be mainly a downwinder..
They work great with foil.. best with bigger front wings. Not for race.
In this vid there should have been made a comparison with a 10m tube.
I'm a bit surprised with your experience with the 7m LEI. I'm 80 kg & have spent the summer in Ontario kiting with a 1000cm2 wing. Basically, I have used two kites: an 8m 3 strut wave kite & a 6m 3 strut wave kite. I would say that 10 knots is enough to get foiling comfortably with the 8m. Requires concentration when gybing in 10 knots in order to not over run the kite & loose line tension, but it's certainly doable. I would have thought at your weight (it would be rude to ask a lady ... but I'm willing to bet you weigh a lot less than 80 kg!) & a bigger wing you should be perfectly powered on a 7m LEI in 11-12 knots?
Two things about wind speed. #1 most people can't judge the wind speed accurately. What you get on top versus bottom are two different things. We have a sensor 20 m above ground where we kite and we go by that as it's the most accurate thing that we know of. #2 there's more to wind than wind speed, it can be 10 knots and u can be going on twin tip, and it can be still showing 10 knots and the kite is falling out of the skies. Turbulence vs laminar flow is of greater importance at low speeds. Hope this helps
Great video! What is the low end wind you’ve been able to foil in with the 8M soul? Do you still use the 15M soul for foiling in lighter conditions?
Thanks! 7-8 knots with 8m soul + large foil wing. I haven’t been using the 15m for foiling much, as I’m overpowered quite quickly on it with the foilboard
One more thing. Would you please do a side by side comparison of the Sonic 3 and the VMG v2. I have a friend who owns every size Soul, 2 Sonic 3s, and just got his 23m VMG. Yes, he's a man with means. What I'm curious about is with the new battens in the VMG, would it handle turbulent winds like the Soul. The Sonic3 is not as good in mountain winds as the Souls. But the VMG might. Please do a review. You seem to be pretty objective when reviewing the various Flysurfer kites! Thanks! Oh, and of course, testing the relaunch of the VMG in light winds. I don't think it's made to relaunch. I say this, because Armin, wrote a reply on one of my FB comments. All he said was, "If your kite goes down, you've lost the race".
Hey, thanks for the suggestion but it’s unlikely we will be reviewing the VMG. It’s not a kite that suits our needs/riding style. That being said, we’d encourage you to reach out to Flysurfer directly with any questions about it :)
Witch board and foil you use in this video??
Rdb 1200 cm wing
Can the Connect bar be used with a Soul?
No
@@OurKiteLife thanks guys, you are my favorite channel to watch!!!
Question: Total nube here. Is there a trainer kite you'd recommend?
Anything for about 100$ don't for for more than that. Maybe panshkite.com ?
@@OurKiteLife Thanks! I did notice some of the high prices.
May I ask, Laurie, is your mom German? Firstname Heidrun? Lots of love from Lev-Opladen, Germany :-)
Not that I'm aware of ;) cheers from Canada
@@OurKiteLife The likelyhood was slim but I had to ask, because you always remind me of her so much - thank you!
Awesome sauce! How do I get on the FS ambassador train? :D. I've read like all 145 pages on the Peak4 on kiteforum and dying to try it. Who wants a 17m Naish Fly that I'm giving up? Started foiling this year and I'll never used that kite. Nice review guys!
There’s a secret password to unlock the FS ambassadorship hidden within that very thread - look again closely 😋 But definitely reach out to your local FS dealer to see if you can arrange a demo!
ill take that 17m naish fly off your hands! 🖐
@@zanes1657 for realz? DM me. I'm in NY.
@@zanes1657 durrr, I'm not sure if RUclips even does direct messages. How about this. The kite is listed in the Second Hand section of kiteforum.com. You CAN direct message me there.
which hydrofoil do you use?
RDB 1200cm wing most of the times. Did a video on it recently ruclips.net/video/lExu2MyVbIs/видео.html
Try the single skin hybrid (relaunchable) Firefly from Conceptair (Canadian brand !). I have sold all my LEI kites and only use those for foiling in waves. They are amazing! here is some footage : ruclips.net/video/3zR3FsX0sHc/видео.html
Thanks for the suggestion. Haven’t heard of these kites before, will check them out!
tell me pls, soul 10 or soul 12 is better for snowkiting ? (70kg) thanks
What is the average wind where you will be snowkiting?
I made a video on water relaunch of a smaller Peak 4. Once it's really in the water, it's possible but not at all simple to get it to relaunch. If you want to see my experience: ruclips.net/video/8EgFbgztLiU/видео.html
Personally, I didn't love the Peak 4 for hydrofoiling, and will stick with double-skin foil kites. I just ordered a Sonic 13 for super light days, when my 10m Soul feels underpowered.
Nice - thanks for sharing the video! That was quite the relaunch :) Enjoy your new Sonic!
Hi nice video.
I have peak 11m. Riding with a small alaia. Fun!
Self rescue id easy but must be fast, if you losse to much time trying to relaunch and recovering the board, the kite Will sink specially in choppy conditions... And Will be no so easy.
Have fun and try also bigger sizes of peak
Hey, thanks for the comment! Good to know about the self rescue, especially for choppy conditions.
Hopefully we can try the 11m in the future :) cheers
лови лайкос!
Single skins just no power . Sucks big time
I have the same board as you. Crx was there anything complicated about installing the lift mast and wing on that board. I'm a fan of the low volume board but the mast and wing on it need an upgrade.
Correction. The Peak4 single skin has the "right" amount of power for a surf foil and virtually no power when you surf the foil with the kite depowered. No other kite can do this as well and stay airborne. Check out the incredibly popular Peak4 thread on kiteforum and all the happy Peak4 users.
Note also over the past 6-9 months Flysurfer has struggled to keep up with the demand for the Peak4. You'll also find it hard to see any for sale secondhand as well. Peak4 surf foil users are generally very, very happy :-)