Do they owe us the readers a completed series? No. But they definitely owe their publishers one. Since, you know, they already got paid to finish them.
@@seanpoore2428 *rolls eyes Well obviously. But as a writer and a story teller? What does it say about a writer you won’t or can’t finish what he started?
@@kalin1161 Alot of different things depending on the specific context of the author? Sometimes laziness, sometimes writers block, sometimes other projects, sometimes real life gets in the way of your job, sometimes mental health, and sometimes HBO does so much damage to your legacy that maybe you wanna sit on that for a few years and rethink some key points. And either way thats up to you. Im frothing at the mouth for winds of winter as much as the next guy, but for me it means an authors entire life/career/schedule doesnt revolve around what i want.....*rolls eyes* Obviously :D
they both die together holding each other in their arms, talking about how sad their fans will be while wiping each others tears with moneys. honestly i've given up hope of either of them finishing their series.
At the same time, George seems to have had a pretty good year last year. Maybe winter will finally arrive. But either book coming out will be a magical moment.
In addition Rothfuss basically 'finished' the bulk of it a long time ago, he's refining it over and over again, and the pressure is just keeping him from ending it I think, whereas it sounds like George RR Martin is meandering a bit
@@hopebringer2348 any if you saw what his own editor said about him? She doesn't know anything about the third book, she hasn't see even a word of it and also she declared that she thinks it's been many years since he written enything....so I wouldn't be very positive
@@JRCSalter while it is true that LOTR was written over many years, all three books were published in LESS THAN A YEAR AND A HALF. Like Rothfuss, Tolkien wrote the whole trilogy before publishing the first book. Unlike Rothfuss, he then published them quickly. The Silmarillion was a detailed backstory/history of Middle Earth and was not required to understand the LOTR trilogy (although it did provide context).
Emotions aside what I’m about to say may offend some people but the reality is they owe us to some extent . The reason is when you buy a book that is titled book number one in a specific series then it’s a contract between me and the author that this is yet to be finished and I’m selling you this with a promise to give you the rest of this series otherwise no one will buy something unfinished !! . It’s may not be an official contract but rather a morel obligation on their part.
I agree. Them promising a certain amount of books in a series or a new book (insert date and time) then when you deliver and you seemingly make no effort to deliver that creates the issues. It's one of the reasons I don't read debut novels of new authors and typically will only start a series if it is complete (with a few exceptions. Sanderson.) They do owe you their word, but not their life.
@@chivonnecampbell Exactly 👍👍,especially when they do anything but writing their own series and keep milking it success. I think most of us now had come to the same resolution which I think hurts new authors unfortunately except with the lord ruler Mr.Sanderson .Of course I don’t approve threats or bullying but the duration between the books should be reasonable otherwise don’t publish a series until you’re confident to make the deadline.
There are many readers like myself who purchased the first book way back in the 90‘s. Had I been told then that in 25 years time I’d still be waiting for the penultimate volume and that the series more than likely would never be finished, I doubt I would have ever picked up that first book. However, I would also have never had the jaw dropping experience of those first 3 volumes. It’s bonkers though that I’ve been reading this series my whole adult life and that my son started this series around 2008 and that my grandson might be ready to start reading it in a few years - and it still won’t be finished!
My vote's on Sanderson. But honestly, I'm on the fence as well. While I want books to come out in a timely manner, I understand that writing is hard. And when you have a complex word and the pressure of the readers on you, it takes time to create something that you're happy with. That being said, if you are an author that, and this is based on my own assumption, have the money or... the resources to aid them (finding plot holes or minute character details, etc.) then I don't think it should take forever to get it done. I will say though that progress updates makes the wait easier.
@@jessi4894 this is both hilarious and sort of mind boggling to think of, considering Sanderson takes about 2-3 years between his stormlight books and he's only just released book 4 of 10 lol
For me, a part of starting a book that is stated to be the beginning of a series is the promise that eventually, that series will be completed. When authors extensively delay the next installment they're not delivering on the promise they made. If readers bought the first book because of the promise of an epic fantasy series bringing many storylines together, they deserve that series.
Oh, those poor poor millionaires, someone called them fat on twitter. Now he can't work on his book for four more months while eatimg veil-stuffed turkeys. When did rich people start using shaming tactics on their customers so they can weasel out of working?
I can understand both sides of the argument. But when you ride the coattails if your last book for over 12 years it gets frustrating as a reader. I’m a fantasy writer myself and although I have no published works i get the struggle of making a clean neat and orderly plot and sub plots. It takes weeks and months of work and revision. But this is different. He has said multiple times “it should come out then” or “possibly coming out the year after this” it gets frustrating. Especially when this is my all time favorite book series and the third one isn’t even out.
Exactly this. I think fans would far more willing to wait patiently if he were just up front and honest about the progress, rather than stringing them along for years with false promises of possible release dates.
Your point at the end sums it up for me. Author's don't owe us to complete their series, but we as readers don't owe them our loyal ship. I am over song and ice and fire. Won't be reading it anymore the dumpster fire of game of thrones season 7 and 8 didn't help. I actually have not read Rothfuss because of the waiting fustration from ASOIAF.
I have given up on ASOIAF as well. I never ever read A Dance With Dragons. IF GRRM miraculously finishes the series, then I will consider finishing it as well. But I'm not holding my breath.
I'm the opposite. I never started ASOIAF (hadn't heard of it before GoT 🤷) but the never-ending wait from KKC made me not want to start it until the final book was out. After seasons 7 and 8, I probably won't read it ever haha
ASOIaF is annoying because just last year or so, G.R.R Martin realised a thick prequel called “Fire & Blood“….. 300 years before GoT, like serious dude,the plot of that whole book was explained in the GoT series, we know the Targaryans were crazy dragon riders from Valyria….now HBO making a series about that ,and he gonna be a producer/consultant which will taking time away from writing “Winds of Winter”…… I loved ASOIAF, but this is getting anoying
@@edwinkok1913 Meh, I loved Fire and Blood. I love the universe. If he keeps writing in it I’ll take it. WoW would be great, but I’m fine with getting other stories in the meantime as long as the quality is still there. For me, so far, it is.
I was considered the "Professor of The Song of Ice and Fire" at the bookstores I've worked part-time in since 1989. I first read "A Game of Thrones" in 1997 and GRRM's series quickly became my favorite. I've must have sold by hand at least 200 copies of GoT. I was able to get a two-week head start on "A Dance with Dragons", thanks to the perks of bookselling. For many years after the July 2011 release of "A Dance with Dragons", I defended Martin when people criticized him for taking too long to write "The Winds of Winter". However, after the HBO series wrote the MOST DISAPPOINTING FINAL SEASON IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION, and after waiting a full decade for "The Winds of Winter", I'm not defending him anymore. Especially after writing that textbook "Fire and Blood", and the coffee table book of Westeros before that. I simply think the poor man is stuck. Many people don't know that in May 2015, Random House Publishing asked him if he could finish the book by October 31, 2015 so they could release it before Season 6 aired. He said that he absolutely could, but on October 31, he still wasn't finished, and Random House asked Martin if he could finish it by December 31, 2015, so they could rush-publish "The Winds of Winter" in time to be released in March 2016. He said he could, because he only had "some tidying up to do". He still couldn't get it done. Once Season 6 was released, Martin found himself in a real mess. If readers watched Season 6, the "Winds of Winter" would hold very few surprises. Then Season 7 and the god-awful Season 8 came out, and his fans were outraged. It's my theory that Martin simply started "Winds of Winter" from scratch and took the book in a mostly different direction from what he originally intended and what ended up on the show. As of a year ago, he still had a couple hundred pages to go. I'd hate to be in his shoes right now. For a while, he was the most read author in the English language, and now that HBO s*** the bed with his original ending, and over a decade of growing hostility from his former fans, I'm sure he's terrified that he will do nothing but disappoint. The expectations are simply too high. I met Patrick Rothfuss when he came for a book signing at my bookstore in 2010. "The Name of the Wind" was the most beautifully written fantasy novel I had ever read up to that point. His second book, "Wise Man's Fear" came out in March 2011 and although it was okay, it definitely disappointed many readers. Like with Martin, the expectations and pressure on Rothfuss just grew and grew. Many people are taking bets on whether Martin will die before releasing Book 6. I think it will get released in 2023, but I seriously doubt he will finish Book 7. Things are looking up for Rothfuss though. After about 5 years of hearing absolutely nothing new about "The Doors of Stone", he is now sharing info about it, so there is hope. So in the meantime, everybody, I concur with Captured with Words in saying that Brandon Sanderson rules the fantasy genre right now. The Stormlight Archives' prose may not match Rothfuss or Martin, but it is definitely better paced, and easier to read. I haven't had a better time reading since Martin's first three Song of Ice and Fire. However, I would recommend Tad William's "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" and "The Last Kind of Osten Ard" series for excellent prose and for a more dependable release schedule.
Do authors of a series "owe" their readers? I think the best answer is: Kinda. If an author writes a book and the story is clearly not finished, especially if it ends on a cliffhanger, they need to finish it. Readers have invested time and money and an author who doesn't finish the work has broken an implied promise. I wouldn't have a problem with a series not being finished if the stories were essentially self-contained and the author didn't say there would be X number of books in the series. Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen was 10 books (published over 12 years!) telling one very long story, but every book was complete in and of itself and there were no cliffhangers (with the exception of book 9). I, with most others here, do not think that authors ought to be harassed for not finishing a series, but I also do not think they should be immune from criticism when a series is taking forever to finish.
@@Wolltazari agree, in Martin’s case asoif is basically his life’s work. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have written this great work that has taken nearly my whole adult life, and to just leave it unfinished.
I'm kind of in the middle as well, I want sequels so bad sometimes and I appreciate it a lot when authors let you know of their progress, it's a clear show of consideration for their readers, but I get the other side completely, it must not be easy to be under so much stress and even death threats omg, people need to chill (and read other books!)
Yeah, the problem I have with many is that they say they "owe" them these books because they're fans that support them, but how many of them care about the authors themselves? Like, how many GOT fans have really read any of GRRM's other works? He's been trying to get people to care about his other works that most people haven't heard of, which is a large part of his focus at the moment. That's where they're entitlement comes from, they don't see them as people with their own passions, but rather sources of entertainment, and they don't care about these other works that the authors are passionate about, only the one they care about personally.
How? The author wants to do other stuff too. He isn't finding a good balance of time. He can write none of them or all of them. Doesn't owe anybody anything.
Fundamentally, I think taking 10 yrs to write a book you've signed a contract to finish is unprofessional. It's not that the causes for delay aren't valid, but when you turn your creative work into a business venture you sorta agree to meet professional standards ... and that includes meeting deadlines.
How is that abelist? Their JOB is to be a professional, paid author. They signed contracts. If I had a deadline and repeatedly missed it then I would be out of a job. This is no different.
@@solongandgoodnight1820 excuse me? I am actually severely chronically ill myself yet I manage to hold down a full time job and do that job well despite my health issues. What does chronic illness have to do with these authors not meeting their contractual obligations? People with ill health should NOT all be stigmatised as unable to work or contribute.
@@solongandgoodnight1820 every chronic illness is unique just as every person is unique. I honestly don't share your rather negative opinions. It is perfectly possible to be very ill and yet work, create or produce to the best of your abilities. If these authors were saying unfortunately my circumstances have changed and sadly I am not able to finish this story then fair enough. It would be sad but life happens. They aren't. Instead they are stringing along their publishers and readership making empty and meaningless promises about how soon these books are going to be finished. I stick to my original comment. Any other business would have sacked them long ago and rightly so.
@@solongandgoodnight1820 I don't think that it's ableist, whilst is tru that is fair to delay a book for health issues, delaying it for 10 years is a bit too much, especially considering that writing isn't a job physically demanding or with strict hours, like other jobs
I'm thinking Rothfuss. He seems like he's made more progress and is feeling more confident, though who knows, maybe the secret third contestant Scott Lynch will suddenly pull into the lead.
As I posted on Bookborn's channel the other month when she covered this topic: it depends. If they have been marketing a book as part of a series from before the first book came out then yes, they should fulfil that obligation. If, however they write a book and never mention doing a sequel but have fans/publishers pestering them to do one no, they don't.
I don’t feel like they owe us but at the same time it makes it hard for me to invest in large series unless the writer has good work ethic, ala Sanderson, or the series is already completed.
I don't think authors owe us anything. But I do think Patrick rothfuss is an exception because when his 1st book was published it was released as a completely written series that was split into 3 books to be published 1 year apart from each other. So since he lied about that I do think he owes us the books he promised
you could say that he's spent so long revising the third part that it is no longer the same as it was when the book was split. I mean, we'll never know, but that seems likely.
The issue lies more with them promising a certain amount of books in a series or a new book (insert date and time) then when you can't deliver and you seemingly make no effort to deliver that creates the issues. It's one of the reasons I don't read debut novels of new authors and typically will only start a series if it is complete (with a few exceptions. Sanderson being one of them.) They do owe you their word, but not their life.
You talked about Robin Hobb having beautiful prose and I just want to point out that most of Realm of the Elderlings was published on an yearly basis. Which maybe was a bit detrimental for the later books plots, but istill speaks volumes about Hobb's talent 🥰
This was a great video. Especially about a topic that can seem little tricky to even touch because of how folks cross the line from wanting to finish a series to just hating on authors.
I would love to say that Authors don't owe us a quickly finished series, but I MUST admit it does make me crack up seeing all the photos of George R.R. Martin doing literally anything except write 😂. I saw one of him at his home running around inside an inflatable ball, absolutely classic. But yeah, I do think that constantly marketing and encouraging readers to start a series that they don't seem to be interested in finishing, is at the very least worthy of debate
I think that an author needs to be upfront with how long to expect a book- if their contract says one book a year then they need to do that. And not ride the merch train. But if an author like Martin or Rothfuss or even Sanderson needs more than what their contact says m, they need to negotiate and communicate with fans- even if it’s a “hey I have a bunch going on. My mental health is important. Please be patient. I’ll have another book out by insert year” with social media, this type of post would help a lot.
"Owe" is a strong word. It makes sense to not start a task you don't intend to finish, and people should be allowed to count on an intention but everyone is human and what can ya do?
i can’t say i really blame them. seems like they’re both struggling because of how complex their stories have become. sanderson seems to write with some sort of end goal for his stories in mind which makes most of his writing process about ending up at that end goal. i’m sure rothfuss and martin have ideas for how they’d want their books to end as well, although not to the same sort of clarity that sanderson has developed as a writer. at least that’s how i see it. plus the pressure must build up over the years. what if they finally release a book and it’s just mediocre? they’ll instantly be ridiculed for taking so long just to put out an unsatisfying entry into their series. each year adds to that and i imagine having all these expectations on you just becomes more of a task than it is an enjoyable experience
I guess I get that but that's still seems like poor planning from their side and excellent planning from Sanderson's. If you want to go further, Sanderson has the entire cosmere as like a crossover universe = very complex storytelling but he still manages to make each book or series self-contained
It's probably better to have a bad ending than no ending. After spending 10 years trying to craft a story with little to show, you probably are a joke in the making.
My stance is somewhat toward the middle. I firmly believe that if someone starts a project it should be finished in a timely fashion (allowances for unforeseen problems and tragedies given). The author made a social contract with the audience. The author will give us said project in turn for money with the promise of a complete project forthcoming. We then pay for subsequent installments as well. I also believe that an author should take all the time they need to make the product good enough for publication. The compromise of the two positions is that an author should never publish book 1 of a series until not just that is ready but the others are close to if not outright ready for delivery as well. To use Kingkiller chronicles as an example, since the first one came out in 2007, the second should have come out around 2010 at the latest with Doors of stone around 2013 at the latest. If things happen to take longer with a sequel, the author should notify the audience of the reason because that is his/her duty to the audience. "I'm sorry for how long it is taking I've been experiencing some rather traumatic things of late" or "A rather major plot hole has popped up in the narrative making me have to restart from scratch sorry for the wait." If one doesn't do things this way, the only thing they can expect for a writing legacy is people forgetting them and moving on. An author's relationship to his audience is like a marriage. In both types of relationships it takes a lot of work and continued outpouring of affection on both sides in order for things to succeed. So does an author owe his audience a finish to the story? If he wants his audience to still love him/her then yes. If he/she doesn't care about a messy hate filled split then the author should feel free to stop writing all together.
I was into Wheel of Time and totally bummed when Jordan announced how sick he was - and very likely to die before finishing the series. I couldn't help think what a loss to literature such an event would be. Thankfully he had the courage to let someone else do the job for him. I will always appreciate him and Sanderson for that. Roger Zelazny died before finishing a sequel series to his Amber novels. Anne McCaffrey died before doing everything she wanted to do with Pern. The phenom isn't new by any means. No, no writer 'owes' anything to their readers. But... the implicit social contract they create when they enter that field is a powerful one. The longer they delay, the more damage they do to their credibility and mass appeal. Rothfus, as an example, might roll in $ when Doors is finally released, but would gave zero grounds for complaint if that's the last of his works anyone ever buys - simply because they have lost trust. Their biggest obligation is to their own image and posterity. If they're not doing everything they can to protect and further that, it tells us a great deal about who they are as people. We have to decide whether we want to give folks that our hard earned $ and respect, or find someone else to provide us our entertainment.
I moved onto John Gwynne. He has become one of my favorites. Still frustrated on the waiting for Winds of Winter. I still have so much to read. Like King Killer, Wheel of Time, Dresden Files, and Expanse. So as long as they are working on them. I'll read on with others
I think you touched on a very important point there in the end. I don't think authors owe us. Especially with how book contracts sometimes pan out, some authors are really at a disadvantage (writing a book that can stand both as a standalone and as part of series? I could never). And you talked mostly about famous, well-paid authors but there are so many small and unknown series that might not get finished because the author stopped writing, their publisher went defunct or there is not enough interest to warrant their personal investment in more books. Hell, even Mira Grant/Seanan McGuire and Victoria Schwab are affected by this and one would never think that from the way they are talked about it on here. But we also don't owe authors. Losing interest, consuming the adaptions, reading fanfiction instead, many won't go back to the original source material. It's that simple and I don't think authors believe the opposite either.
I readed a dance with dragons in january 2020 and readed wise mans fear in february 2021. And its getting me the nerves to wait those book. I cant imagine how people could have been waiting for ten years. It would blow my mind
Except there is a contract: the book. The plot points, the world building, the character arcs are all promises to a reader that an author will resolve these to the best of their ability. If one makes millions selling an unfinished work on the expectation that it will be completed, the author has an ethical obligation to complete it. How many people would have bought Game of Thrones or Name of the Wind if they'd been told up front that the authors had no clue how to end their series? I'm guessing many (most?) readers would have passed.
I totally think writers owe us to complete their works. I have three strong reasons. 1. The economic commitment to the publisher and the consumer. 2. The investment readers are invited to put into the story. ...
Generally, I don't think authors owe us anything. However, if you came out and say as a selling point to your first book that the whole series was already finished and just needs a bit of editing before being released continuously in the next 2 years, then take 5 years to publish the 2nd book, and over 10 years with no end in sight for the 3rd book I do think in this specific case it is owed. People started to support you because of something that was promised. That promise has since been greatly broken. Had he never came out and said everything is already written in the first place I don't think many people would be mad at him. And had he been focusing on his work this past decade instead of hoping on numerous side projects again and again, I don't think many people would be this mad at him just taking his time to round out the series. But he is, and basically it's a slap in all the reader's face. "I need more time", then proceeds to spend hours and months on his blog, or writing for video games, or publishing side stories.
Imagine if instead of finishing KKC, Rothfuss published the beginning of his next serie... I kinda of wish he did, that would show everyone just how much the guy doesn't respect his audience.
Personal bet: I think I will self publish my first book before either, and actually be well into my published career before either publish their next book. This I believe will have the backlash effect of Rothfuss and Jordan teaming up to publish their next books at the same time, creating a media blitz of co-appearances and teasers to bury my books under an avalanche of subjectively superior writing. Following this I will withdraw in shame and find a mountain cave where I can grow my hair and finger nails out to ludicrous length and slowly morph into a creature who has forgotten the taste of bread and the warmth of human company. There I will hatch malevolent plots to ruin the tv adaptations of their series by replacing the scripts of the last three seasons with fanfiction written by a troop of molly-dropping resus monkeys. I may have started early with Martin...That being said my money's on Rothfuss.
All we're "owed" is the book we pay for. That said, it -is- insane that it's been over 10 years for both these authors, and it's fair to be critical of the work for that. It's hard to trust either of them when they say they're working on it, and frankly, I'm not going to be buying any of their work in the future.
I love your videos, and with the consistency you are maintaining of posting one video per week over last few month is making me like the channel better better.🤩🤩 I think Rothfuss May finish Doors of Stone earlier, he is updating more and more about it which may not mean he is finishing it any time sooner, but is a step towards it. And GRRM is now busy with screen play of House of The Dragons, so it might take him longer. As I am treading through Wise Man’s Fear, and after witnessing the Chandrians mystery at the end of Name Of The Wind, I understand why people can be impatient. But I am ready to wait (maybe😅) as long as he delivers a perfect book. I also began Mistborn recently, even though I fell Sanderson’s prose is different from Rothfuss’s but I feel it suits his stories better, because his stories are more like action movies, where as Rothfuss project is about life story of a wizard which requires a more lyrical prose. So I love both of them equally. But I haven’t read Rhythm of War yet so can’t say anything about that. But I love all the authors who give me a book worth spending time on, finished or unfinished!
I’ve given up on a George and Patrick. They’ve opened so many mystery boxes, they’re both struggling for answers with limited book space. Because of this, I’ve decided to only read book series that the authors have finished.
This is a super important discussion! Love your takes here. We often talk about this "owing" idea with video games too, especially sequels. Good games, and often good books, take time, and I'd always rather wait another couple years for a better version. Of course, fans will tragically die in between (that is something Stephen King talks about weighing on his soul as he finished The Dark Tower). But that's unfortunate, and in between any release there will be fans who can't complete the series.
No they do not owe it to us to deliver the books if they deem them not ready yet. However they do owe us to keep us somewhat in the loop and updated to what's going on with the book.
I feel very conflicted, and I've started just avoiding authors who don't publish regularly if they are in the middle of a series. I might read ASOIAF if it's ever finished, but I'm not starting it now!
I could care less that Sanderson's prose isn't the "most amazing thing evar". He FINISHES his work and fulfills his promises to his readers. I'll take that any day of the week.
Its a gamble on both sides. Us as readers took a gamble on starting a series without an ending in sight. A series being finished in due time, or finished at all for that fact, is something that we readers take for granted as an absolute event and now that we are in a situation where the continuation or ending of something we love is not set in stone, we don’t know how to handle it. But like you said, there is an unspoken promise between an author and reader that their work will be finished. So an author taking an extended amount of time to fulfill that promise to the reader is also gambling how many, if any, readers will be at the end of that extended wait. Personally, I say back off and let them work at their own pace. I’m willing to wait in the hopes that that wait delivers us something satisfying. Authors are people too. Harassing them isn’t all of a sudden gonna yield sudden results. It seems to be deterring them actually.
I’ll one up you. Waiting for book three has cost me my faith entirely. I’m now resigned to the idea that life is meaningless and we’re all going to die and end up a bag of bones buried in a box in the ground. Thanks pat.
@@maestercraig3990 I can accept that life is meaningless and we all die, but it would make it so much easier if I had the doors of stone to ease my suffering along the journey.
Owing to his age, I fear for Martin's health. I would really love it to be him, but I think Rothfuss would. Martin surely has a lot on his plate right now, what with all the spin-offs of Game of Thrones and the House of the Dragon.
The truth of it is that grrm simply does not need to write books anymore... Besides being a book writer he is also a screenwriter.. Which I believe he actually enjoys more at his age.. Why would he bother with the book on his spare time when he is getting paid good money to write shows and could use that spare time to enjoy such money?
I feel like he'd rather work on anything else, so he keeps dropping Winds to the back burner. He's turned into that meme with the rubbernecking boyfriend.
My opinion that authors don't owe their fans anything, and that it is never okay to harass an author. That said, if an author wants to be on good terms with their fans, it would be beneficial to keep them in the know and being open with what is happening on the writing front. And not be snide towards people who are showing interest in his or her work.
They don't owe us a completed series. They are people. I'm glad you mentioned one of my favorites, Scott Lynch. Well worth reading even if we don't have a continuation yet.
They don't owe us anything, however I think it's important for authors to get called out on promises broken to fans or lies told. Rothfuss said in 2007 the books were written and they'd come out once a year. It wasn't an unspoken promise in his case. I can't know for sure but to me it feels like he's trying to milk the fame of his books for as long as possible. I am often curious why diehard fans keep inviting this discussion, it seems self-defeating. I don't know who will finish first, but I won't be reading either until they do.
I have given up hope on these two authors ever giving a satisfying conclusion to their series. My only regret is starting out with them on this journey to nowhere. On the one hand the books are amazing and captivating on a level that few authors ever attain. But that's the set up for the massive disappointment to come. I don't have decades to invest my money, my time, or my emotions on a pipe dream. Do or do not. There is no try. Do they owe me a book? No. Of course not. Just give me my money back and we'll call it square and I'll eat the time and heartache invested and take it as lesson learned.
GRRM hurt made it easy to give up on rothfuss. I spent years on the forums and on his blog looking for news.. I started reading the series after watching the first series so I got lucky really. But still many years ago. So when I worked out rothfuss was the same I wrote it off Immediately.
That's a pretty reasonable take on it, kudos to you for it. :) Hands up, if with hindsight, you would rather have waited an extra two years for the GoT TV show to film more episodes and play out the storylines in a different way? Assume that it would be dramatically better in whatever way you might have felt it was lacking, more threads would have been wrapped up, and everyone would have sung the praises of the last seasons. I would love it if Patrick Rothfuss could finish the Doors of Stone this year. But not as much as I want him to be around in sixty years, having published another five or ten books. His prose and story is off the charts good. If it takes a long time to get that good, that's fine. I've got Sanderson and thousands of others I can read in the meantime. There are still classic films I've not had the chance to watch. And museums I haven't visited. I'm catered for in general entertainment terms. What I'm lacking is another West Wing, The Wire, a Doors of Stone, a Terry Pratchett or Iain Banks. My bigger interest is in what comes after he finishes Kingkiller. I would honestly love to hear him say he's going to spend six months interviewing other authors, visiting them, and learning from them about their process. We all have a different process, which we create like some made up vehicle from a random selection of Lego. It's something that you iterate on, and there are ways to get faster, just as there are in any manufacturing job, or in writing code, or painting houses. Not everything works for everyone, but there are enough tweaks that there are always things you are not doing well, that slow you down. I know a lot of authors, and many are more productive than Sanderson. Yes. That's a thing. He could write a lot more if you never saw him on RUclips, or he wasn't signing books, or doing his courses, or his podcast. Possibly. Or not. He might find that not doing those things would crush his mental health and his overall productivity. I know plenty of authors who went full time and slowed down because it's not an easy transition to make. Anxiety, and imposter syndrome are real. Mental health issues and health issues of all manner are real. Some write fast, some don't. Some write clean and fast, some clean up in edits. If you only look, you'll see the same in other fields. Get together one hundred bricklayers, and there'll be some who make a beautiful garden wall, and some who don't. Some will do a great job, faster than others and it isn't necessarily because they're older and more experienced. I hope for the next project he does, Patrick Rothfuss is able to find a better process, for HIM and HIS needs, not mine as a reader who wants more top notch books. I'd love to see him write something great, but shorter and less complex if he actually wants to do that. I think there are ways he could be happier, and more productive, and he has only to find the methods that work for him, as we all do. For instance, I could really do with someone standing over my shoulder, preventing me from commenting on RUclips videos in defense of authors. ;)
Do authors owe us? Yes...but also no...so maybe. I always struggle with this. But like you said I think updates are key, just let your readers know what's going on. I don't mind if a book takes a while just so long as I know a book is still coming. Even if they updated us to say there will be no more books that's better than being in the dark. But no matter what side you fall on no one should harass them about it, in fact just don't harass anyone
IMO - Martin will get Winds done before Doors of Stone. That said, DoS will be done years before a Dream of Spring (which I worry we'll never see given Martin's age, unfortunately), so Rothfuss will beat Martin in getting his series done first.
No, authors don't owe readers anything. And we as readers do not own them. Step back , be patient. Dark Tower, Earthsea and Thomas Covenant are among the best loved series of all time, now that they're finished - before that, probably. Took decades, but that's not an issue anymore. We can only hope same will happen here. And you're right - readers don't owe the authors their undying love and patience either. Being fast helps, being good at PR helps. But neither makes you a good author by themselves. Being slow or bad at PR doesn't make you a bad one.
Are they obligated to finish their stories? No. Is it moral for them to get their $$$ from readers for the first couple of books and then fail to finish the series? No. Regardless of what happens, a lot of respect has been lost.
Particularly when they state a clear intended number of volumes from the start. It's more of a promise by that point, a promise broken when they teeter off with one or two books remaining.
I'm firmly in the Neil Gaiman "George R.R. Martin is not your bitch" camp, personally. If there's a contract issue between the author and the publisher, then that's their business. Speaking as someone who has aspirations to write and has yet to complete anything, I get that it's a creative process and you can't dictate someone else's creativity. There's a lot more involved than just sitting down at a keyboard and smacking the keys. The more external pressure, the harder it is for some people to perform. I appreciate Sanderson and his transparency with the process but honestly ... every author has the right to work in their own way. We can like it or not, and we can choose to buy their books or not. As for Rothfuss vs. Martin.... since Pat has only one book left to complete the series, and George has two, I'm betting on Rothfuss. I'm an optimist at heart, so I believe both of them fully intend to finish, and I'll keep myself busy with my ever growing TBR (and rereading my other favorite series) until then. If they never do, I've lost nothing in the end.
I think it depends on the question if you look at it from a perspective inspired by law or from a perspective of responsibility. We definitely aren't entitled to get the series finished by law or by a perspective inspired by law. But I think that when you create something that so many people put effort into and build an emotional connection to and you want them to do so and reinforce them in doing so then you have a responsibility for what you have created. And you also have a bit of a responsibility for your fans because they put trust in you and they bought your books and spent their time with them in good faith that he will finish what he started so that the time and money was well spent. This doesn't oblige you to finish what you started. But I think it shows character when you give your best to do so and shows a lack of character if you don't. And I think it's a bit difficult to say if Patrick Rothfuss does. I mean, yes, he talks about mental problems and I know several people who also struggle or struggled with them. So yes that can make it way harder to finish what you started and that has to be kept in mind when talking about his unfinished work. But on the other hand he seems to have a lot of creative energy that he invests in other projects. So the problem doesn't seem to be a lack of energy because of his mental problems.
I read The Name of the Wind when I was in high school, 17 years old. The Wise Man's Fear came out after I finished grad school. I am now 32 years old. I will wait however long it takes. Even if he doesn't finish, The Name of the Wind will always be my favorite book.
Being a mood reader and loves character driven plots like myself, anticipation can only last so long before disinterest follows. I have finished KKC and ASOIAF years ago and I have unconsciously drifted apart from their stories. Like a friend who becomes an acquaintance and slowly, a stranger. I have to reread the rest of the books in case they drop new ones out and I don't think I will be up for that. Unless, I somehow learn to care about the characters again.
Authors don't owe their readers anything but as you mentioned we don't owe them anything. If an author wants to put out things that aren't part of their main writing they most certainly shouldn't be surprised if their fans refuse to pay for them simply out of principle. You don't owe me that final book, but I don't owe you any of my money for every random side project you think is more important to work on than the book that I actually want to read.
Nah man all you're gonna get is wildcards and dunk and egg and you're gonna be happy with it. Maybe, just maybe if you're lucky George will work on another videogame before even thinking about touching WoW
Martin has not one, but TWO books left. So, ye know... not exactly optimistic about the completion of my first adult fantasy series. Actually, it doesn't bother me, if it won't get finished and just stays as is. I enjoyed fan theories as coming home, discovering more/new things and, eventually, getting a sense of closure. Haven't read the other two series. So, there is that.
Well it would be nice if they found someone to finish the series for him in case he dies. Or if he makes a kind of draft how the series would have ended.
Well it would be nice if they found someone to finish the series for him in case he dies. Or if he makes a kind of draft how the series would have ended.
I often think that the version of these books the fan communities have written in their heads while they wait, will in many cases be better than the finished product (or at least equally as good). It's kinda inevitable when you have that many dedicated and creative people applying their imaginations over so many years.
His writing is so different to anything else I've ever read, he could legit end with with Kote telling the Chronicler he's full of shit and he was just fucking with him the whole time and I'd still enjoy it
If an author of a thicc fantasy series can't complete it, it's time to read and write fan fiction. Or heck, try writing your own series. (Also, between the two of them, my bets on Rothfuss completing his series first. I feel like GRRM lost his steam after the poor reception of the show's finale.)
I also believe that the show kinda messed up with grrm plans... Like, people really didnt like bran being ruler at the end.. So grrm is like "well that was where I was heading with the ending, maybe I should change that but how? .. I honestly feel that asoiaf got so big and with so many branches that he has literally no clear idea how to wrap up everything in a proper way
@@oscarbautista4156 Yeah, I think the trouble is that there were so many characters and so many subplots that it's difficult to bring the story to a satisfactory end at this point.
Also I don't think more time spent working on something=better quality. In fact I think it's an unfortunate indicator when something IS taking much longer than normal that it isn't going to be great...
To be fair with Martin, he did write some books between Dance of Dragons and the still unfinished Winds of Winter. He is also the editor of Wild Cards and several anthologies. And the executive producer of Game of Thrones and several other series. Yeah, he may not have been working on Winds of Winter as much as we liked, but he was working on other stuff at the time.
ASOIAF fans need to come to terms with the fact that there is no way it will ever be finished. We will be lucky to get Winds of Winter. Dream of Spring just isn’t going to happen.
Frankly, some writers don’t give any s***s about their fan base but are happy to live off the money we’ve already given them. I’m tired of waiting for either Rothfuss or Martin’s sequels and won’t be buying them if they ever get released.
20 years ago Song of Ice and Fire was my favorite contemporary fantasy. Now I just stopped caring. There are so other great writers out there like Sanderson and Gwynne, along with so many née writers. I’ll support those authors and read their material.
ASOIAF has always been my number 1 fantasy series. I remember being so immersed in the world and just absolutely loving every page! Then the show came out and i saw everything I pictured in my head come to life on the screen and it was amazing. Aaaaaand then i picked up the KKC. Blown away once again! I’m torn bw the two but if i really had to choose, I’d probably say I’m more excited for Doors of Stone. Maybe because it’s fresh in my mind. Maybe because TNOTW caught me off gaurd and i fell in love with everything about the book. Or maybe i just don’t know! All in all, i love both series and hope we get new books soon 😅
I lean towards Martin because I think he’s under more pressure and has more help. Either way, when one of them finally puts out a book, they will no longer be on this “hold out” together so it will put more pressure on the other. I think we will get release dates for both within a year of each other
Hmm I maybe see Pat deciding to work faster if tWoW releases or gets a release date, seeing another writer get out of a similar situation might motivate him, his story would undoubtedly be easier to tie up too, but I feel like George wouldn't even begin to concern himself with other writers and their releases when it comes to his own work, his story is so in depth and complicated and intricate that I don't see him rushing it for anything, especially not if all this pressure over the last 10 years hasn't gotten him to rush it yet
I’m gonna say it how I feel it. Authors do owe us stuff but at the same time, if you havent finished a book in 10 years then you’re not really a writer, more of a sitter around. Sitters around don’t owe us anything.
I agree with a lot of what you said except for suggesting that length of time between novels improving the quality of writing. Martin's first 3 books are far superior in storytelling yet they were all released within a couple of years of each other. Books 4 and 5 took much longer, and the quality suffered. Another example is Malazan Book of the Fallen. Erickson crafted a world and story that is far more complex than anything Martin or Rothfuss have done, yet he released all 10 novels in the same amount of time that we've been waiting for Martin and Rothfuss' next books.
I think it would be funny if Butcher finished Dresden before both Door of Stone and Dream of Spring came out, especially since Butcher took 5 years off to deal with real world problems and probably would’ve had it done by now or very nearly.
Yes, the people they do owe are their publishers, because a signed contract is a different kind of "owing". But it's also because they're among the top-selling authors that the publisher is willing to give the time they need. If a smaller offer took as long as George or Patrick, they'd have been dropped a long time ago.
When you buy book one of a seven part series there is an implied contract that the series will be finished. Authors have the option write stand alone books. You could also release some in trilogies. Just complete the narrative and be grateful you have the coolest job in the world.
I don’t think Martin will release his book and Rothfuss will release his eventually, just don’t hold your breath. I think someone will have to finish Martin’s work one day
John Gwynne like Sanderson is another prolific author. He's pretty much getting a book out every year!! I'm with Jay somewhere in the middle regarding Martin and Rothfuss! We are not entitled to get anything from an author but waiting over 10 years for a book is borderline taking the piss! 😖
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Who do you think will finish their book first, George R.R. Martin or Patrick Rothfuss? Place your bets!
Pat Rothfus for sure
My vote goes to George R. R. Martin. He said that the progress towards his next book is going well. :)
George R.R. Martin for sure, I don't see Rothfuss ever publishing The Doors of Stone tbh x)
George R.R. We won’t get the third book in my opinion. I think he gave up on the series when he found out he could make movies and TV shows off it
Both will die 60 years from now without having released their books. Thats where Brandon Sanderson comes in.
Do they owe us the readers a completed series? No. But they definitely owe their publishers one. Since, you know, they already got paid to finish them.
Exactly!
Actually Yes. They do owe the readers a completed series. Otherwise what the point of writing a series?
@@kalin1161 putting food on their table?
@@seanpoore2428 *rolls eyes
Well obviously. But as a writer and a story teller? What does it say about a writer you won’t or can’t finish what he started?
@@kalin1161 Alot of different things depending on the specific context of the author? Sometimes laziness, sometimes writers block, sometimes other projects, sometimes real life gets in the way of your job, sometimes mental health, and sometimes HBO does so much damage to your legacy that maybe you wanna sit on that for a few years and rethink some key points. And either way thats up to you. Im frothing at the mouth for winds of winter as much as the next guy, but for me it means an authors entire life/career/schedule doesnt revolve around what i want.....*rolls eyes* Obviously :D
The Longer the Beard The Longer the Wait
Hahahhaha 😆
they both die together holding each other in their arms, talking about how sad their fans will be while wiping each others tears with moneys.
honestly i've given up hope of either of them finishing their series.
My money is on Rothfuss, he seems to be doing better lately (also, I’m a bigger fan of KKC than ASOIF...)
At the same time, George seems to have had a pretty good year last year. Maybe winter will finally arrive. But either book coming out will be a magical moment.
Also kk is finished after the next book. Martin still has a full book to go
In addition Rothfuss basically 'finished' the bulk of it a long time ago, he's refining it over and over again, and the pressure is just keeping him from ending it I think, whereas it sounds like George RR Martin is meandering a bit
@@jameshetherington1 That was actually a lie, Rothfuss made a blog post about it
@@hopebringer2348 any if you saw what his own editor said about him? She doesn't know anything about the third book, she hasn't see even a word of it and also she declared that she thinks it's been many years since he written enything....so I wouldn't be very positive
Do authors OWE us a book? No. But is it totally ridiculous to spend 10+ years writing a book? Yes.
I definitely agree with this!
Umm. Tolkien spent 15 years writing LOTR, and his entire life writing The Silmarillion. And he never actually finished The Silmarillion.
@@JRCSalter while it is true that LOTR was written over many years, all three books were published in LESS THAN A YEAR AND A HALF. Like Rothfuss, Tolkien wrote the whole trilogy before publishing the first book. Unlike Rothfuss, he then published them quickly. The Silmarillion was a detailed backstory/history of Middle Earth and was not required to understand the LOTR trilogy (although it did provide context).
@@southstaronline That's fair.
Don't spend much of that time writing I bet
Emotions aside what I’m about to say may offend some people but the reality is they owe us to some extent . The reason is when you buy a book that is titled book number one in a specific series then it’s a contract between me and the author that this is yet to be finished and I’m selling you this with a promise to give you the rest of this series otherwise no one will buy something unfinished !! .
It’s may not be an official contract but rather a morel obligation on their part.
I agree. Them promising a certain amount of books in a series or a new book (insert date and time) then when you deliver and you seemingly make no effort to deliver that creates the issues. It's one of the reasons I don't read debut novels of new authors and typically will only start a series if it is complete (with a few exceptions. Sanderson.) They do owe you their word, but not their life.
@@chivonnecampbell Exactly 👍👍,especially when they do anything but writing their own series and keep milking it success. I think most of us now had come to the same resolution which I think hurts new authors unfortunately except with the lord ruler Mr.Sanderson .Of course I don’t approve threats or bullying but the duration between the books should be reasonable otherwise don’t publish a series until you’re confident to make the deadline.
Exactly, not finishing the series would be nothing less than fraud. It would be swindling readers for their money, and leaving them.
I agree. It’s as bad as false advertisement
There are many readers like myself who purchased the first book way back in the 90‘s. Had I been told then that in 25 years time I’d still be waiting for the penultimate volume and that the series more than likely would never be finished, I doubt I would have ever picked up that first book. However, I would also have never had the jaw dropping experience of those first 3 volumes. It’s bonkers though that I’ve been reading this series my whole adult life and that my son started this series around 2008 and that my grandson might be ready to start reading it in a few years - and it still won’t be finished!
My vote's on Sanderson.
But honestly, I'm on the fence as well. While I want books to come out in a timely manner, I understand that writing is hard. And when you have a complex word and the pressure of the readers on you, it takes time to create something that you're happy with. That being said, if you are an author that, and this is based on my own assumption, have the money or... the resources to aid them (finding plot holes or minute character details, etc.) then I don't think it should take forever to get it done.
I will say though that progress updates makes the wait easier.
My vote is on Sanderson finishing the entirety of the Cosmere first.
@@jessi4894 Likewise.
@@jessi4894 this is both hilarious and sort of mind boggling to think of, considering Sanderson takes about 2-3 years between his stormlight books and he's only just released book 4 of 10 lol
For me, a part of starting a book that is stated to be the beginning of a series is the promise that eventually, that series will be completed. When authors extensively delay the next installment they're not delivering on the promise they made. If readers bought the first book because of the promise of an epic fantasy series bringing many storylines together, they deserve that series.
I think that whether authors own us completed series or not, there is no excuse for harassing them.
Yeah, I would never harass an author for any reason. But I’ll certainly give up after a certain amount of neglect
Oh, those poor poor millionaires, someone called them fat on twitter. Now he can't work on his book for four more months while eatimg veil-stuffed turkeys.
When did rich people start using shaming tactics on their customers so they can weasel out of working?
Yes, harassment is complete wrong.
@@dugonman8360 right, it's internet harassment lol
I agree. There are better ways to communicate your feelings.
I can understand both sides of the argument. But when you ride the coattails if your last book for over 12 years it gets frustrating as a reader. I’m a fantasy writer myself and although I have no published works i get the struggle of making a clean neat and orderly plot and sub plots. It takes weeks and months of work and revision. But this is different. He has said multiple times “it should come out then” or “possibly coming out the year after this” it gets frustrating. Especially when this is my all time favorite book series and the third one isn’t even out.
Exactly this. I think fans would far more willing to wait patiently if he were just up front and honest about the progress, rather than stringing them along for years with false promises of possible release dates.
Your point at the end sums it up for me. Author's don't owe us to complete their series, but we as readers don't owe them our loyal ship. I am over song and ice and fire. Won't be reading it anymore the dumpster fire of game of thrones season 7 and 8 didn't help. I actually have not read Rothfuss because of the waiting fustration from ASOIAF.
I have given up on ASOIAF as well. I never ever read A Dance With Dragons. IF GRRM miraculously finishes the series, then I will consider finishing it as well. But I'm not holding my breath.
I'm the opposite. I never started ASOIAF (hadn't heard of it before GoT 🤷) but the never-ending wait from KKC made me not want to start it until the final book was out. After seasons 7 and 8, I probably won't read it ever haha
ASOIaF is annoying because just last year or so, G.R.R Martin realised a thick prequel called “Fire & Blood“….. 300 years before GoT, like serious dude,the plot of that whole book was explained in the GoT series, we know the Targaryans were crazy dragon riders from Valyria….now HBO making a series about that ,and he gonna be a producer/consultant which will taking time away from writing “Winds of Winter”…… I loved ASOIAF, but this is getting anoying
@@edwinkok1913 His publishers probably forced him to write Fire and Blood so HBO could make spin offs
@@edwinkok1913 Meh, I loved Fire and Blood. I love the universe. If he keeps writing in it I’ll take it. WoW would be great, but I’m fine with getting other stories in the meantime as long as the quality is still there. For me, so far, it is.
I was considered the "Professor of The Song of Ice and Fire" at the bookstores I've worked part-time in since 1989. I first read "A Game of Thrones" in 1997 and GRRM's series quickly became my favorite. I've must have sold by hand at least 200 copies of GoT. I was able to get a two-week head start on "A Dance with Dragons", thanks to the perks of bookselling. For many years after the July 2011 release of "A Dance with Dragons", I defended Martin when people criticized him for taking too long to write "The Winds of Winter". However, after the HBO series wrote the MOST DISAPPOINTING FINAL SEASON IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION, and after waiting a full decade for "The Winds of Winter", I'm not defending him anymore. Especially after writing that textbook "Fire and Blood", and the coffee table book of Westeros before that.
I simply think the poor man is stuck. Many people don't know that in May 2015, Random House Publishing asked him if he could finish the book by October 31, 2015 so they could release it before Season 6 aired. He said that he absolutely could, but on October 31, he still wasn't finished, and Random House asked Martin if he could finish it by December 31, 2015, so they could rush-publish "The Winds of Winter" in time to be released in March 2016. He said he could, because he only had "some tidying up to do". He still couldn't get it done.
Once Season 6 was released, Martin found himself in a real mess. If readers watched Season 6, the "Winds of Winter" would hold very few surprises. Then Season 7 and the god-awful Season 8 came out, and his fans were outraged. It's my theory that Martin simply started "Winds of Winter" from scratch and took the book in a mostly different direction from what he originally intended and what ended up on the show. As of a year ago, he still had a couple hundred pages to go. I'd hate to be in his shoes right now. For a while, he was the most read author in the English language, and now that HBO s*** the bed with his original ending, and over a decade of growing hostility from his former fans, I'm sure he's terrified that he will do nothing but disappoint. The expectations are simply too high.
I met Patrick Rothfuss when he came for a book signing at my bookstore in 2010. "The Name of the Wind" was the most beautifully written fantasy novel I had ever read up to that point. His second book, "Wise Man's Fear" came out in March 2011 and although it was okay, it definitely disappointed many readers. Like with Martin, the expectations and pressure on Rothfuss just grew and grew.
Many people are taking bets on whether Martin will die before releasing Book 6. I think it will get released in 2023, but I seriously doubt he will finish Book 7. Things are looking up for Rothfuss though. After about 5 years of hearing absolutely nothing new about "The Doors of Stone", he is now sharing info about it, so there is hope.
So in the meantime, everybody, I concur with Captured with Words in saying that Brandon Sanderson rules the fantasy genre right now. The Stormlight Archives' prose may not match Rothfuss or Martin, but it is definitely better paced, and easier to read. I haven't had a better time reading since Martin's first three Song of Ice and Fire. However, I would recommend Tad William's "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" and "The Last Kind of Osten Ard" series for excellent prose and for a more dependable release schedule.
Very interesting! I definitely concur with the Tad Williams recommendation, his prose is fantastic and he was a major source of inspiration to GRRM
Do authors of a series "owe" their readers? I think the best answer is: Kinda. If an author writes a book and the story is clearly not finished, especially if it ends on a cliffhanger, they need to finish it. Readers have invested time and money and an author who doesn't finish the work has broken an implied promise. I wouldn't have a problem with a series not being finished if the stories were essentially self-contained and the author didn't say there would be X number of books in the series. Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen was 10 books (published over 12 years!) telling one very long story, but every book was complete in and of itself and there were no cliffhangers (with the exception of book 9). I, with most others here, do not think that authors ought to be harassed for not finishing a series, but I also do not think they should be immune from criticism when a series is taking forever to finish.
Absolutely agree, the creative process can take however long it needs to take. As long as the authors are working diligently to complete the story.
First of all, the author owes finishing the series to himself especially if he's as far in it as George is
@@Wolltazari agree, in Martin’s case asoif is basically his life’s work. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have written this great work that has taken nearly my whole adult life, and to just leave it unfinished.
I'm kind of in the middle as well, I want sequels so bad sometimes and I appreciate it a lot when authors let you know of their progress, it's a clear show of consideration for their readers, but I get the other side completely, it must not be easy to be under so much stress and even death threats omg, people need to chill (and read other books!)
Yeah, the problem I have with many is that they say they "owe" them these books because they're fans that support them, but how many of them care about the authors themselves? Like, how many GOT fans have really read any of GRRM's other works? He's been trying to get people to care about his other works that most people haven't heard of, which is a large part of his focus at the moment. That's where they're entitlement comes from, they don't see them as people with their own passions, but rather sources of entertainment, and they don't care about these other works that the authors are passionate about, only the one they care about personally.
When they publish and work on other stuff, whilst complaining that they don't have the time to finish it, then yes. Yes they do.
How? The author wants to do other stuff too. He isn't finding a good balance of time. He can write none of them or all of them. Doesn't owe anybody anything.
I don't like saying someone "owes" me anything. But not completing a series makes my teeth itch from the inside...
Fundamentally, I think taking 10 yrs to write a book you've signed a contract to finish is unprofessional. It's not that the causes for delay aren't valid, but when you turn your creative work into a business venture you sorta agree to meet professional standards ... and that includes meeting deadlines.
How is that abelist? Their JOB is to be a professional, paid author. They signed contracts. If I had a deadline and repeatedly missed it then I would be out of a job. This is no different.
@@solongandgoodnight1820 excuse me? I am actually severely chronically ill myself yet I manage to hold down a full time job and do that job well despite my health issues. What does chronic illness have to do with these authors not meeting their contractual obligations? People with ill health should NOT all be stigmatised as unable to work or contribute.
@@solongandgoodnight1820 every chronic illness is unique just as every person is unique. I honestly don't share your rather negative opinions. It is perfectly possible to be very ill and yet work, create or produce to the best of your abilities. If these authors were saying unfortunately my circumstances have changed and sadly I am not able to finish this story then fair enough. It would be sad but life happens. They aren't. Instead they are stringing along their publishers and readership making empty and meaningless promises about how soon these books are going to be finished. I stick to my original comment. Any other business would have sacked them long ago and rightly so.
@@solongandgoodnight1820 I don't think that it's ableist, whilst is tru that is fair to delay a book for health issues, delaying it for 10 years is a bit too much, especially considering that writing isn't a job physically demanding or with strict hours, like other jobs
I'm thinking Rothfuss. He seems like he's made more progress and is feeling more confident, though who knows, maybe the secret third contestant Scott Lynch will suddenly pull into the lead.
Thorn of Emberlain has a release date
As I posted on Bookborn's channel the other month when she covered this topic: it depends. If they have been marketing a book as part of a series from before the first book came out then yes, they should fulfil that obligation. If, however they write a book and never mention doing a sequel but have fans/publishers pestering them to do one no, they don't.
Thousand times this
I don’t feel like they owe us but at the same time it makes it hard for me to invest in large series unless the writer has good work ethic, ala Sanderson, or the series is already completed.
same. i came here to type this
Yep, totally agree
I vote Rothfuss. He only has one book left to finish, while Martin has two.
Martin will never finish that series and with that ending who cares
Rothfuss said he wanted to do a fourth now also 😂🎉
I don't think authors owe us anything. But I do think Patrick rothfuss is an exception because when his 1st book was published it was released as a completely written series that was split into 3 books to be published 1 year apart from each other. So since he lied about that I do think he owes us the books he promised
Or atleast he should admit to the fact he lied about it.
you could say that he's spent so long revising the third part that it is no longer the same as it was when the book was split. I mean, we'll never know, but that seems likely.
GRRM also writes 400k word blog posts regularly about random stuff so I imagine he could be a little more committed to his book writing
The issue lies more with them promising a certain amount of books in a series or a new book (insert date and time) then when you can't deliver and you seemingly make no effort to deliver that creates the issues. It's one of the reasons I don't read debut novels of new authors and typically will only start a series if it is complete (with a few exceptions. Sanderson being one of them.) They do owe you their word, but not their life.
I am also at the point where I rarely read a series that is not complete.
The first sentence is spot on. I wouldn't be afraid to take chances on new authors and series in progress though.
You talked about Robin Hobb having beautiful prose and I just want to point out that most of Realm of the Elderlings was published on an yearly basis. Which maybe was a bit detrimental for the later books plots, but istill speaks volumes about Hobb's talent 🥰
This was a great video. Especially about a topic that can seem little tricky to even touch because of how folks cross the line from wanting to finish a series to just hating on authors.
I would love to say that Authors don't owe us a quickly finished series, but I MUST admit it does make me crack up seeing all the photos of George R.R. Martin doing literally anything except write 😂. I saw one of him at his home running around inside an inflatable ball, absolutely classic.
But yeah, I do think that constantly marketing and encouraging readers to start a series that they don't seem to be interested in finishing, is at the very least worthy of debate
The inflatable ball video you're referring to was a skit from Conan's show
The inflatable ball one isn’t real lol . It’s a skit
Oh really? Hahaha that somehow makes it even funnier 😂
I think that an author needs to be upfront with how long to expect a book- if their contract says one book a year then they need to do that. And not ride the merch train. But if an author like Martin or Rothfuss or even Sanderson needs more than what their contact says m, they need to negotiate and communicate with fans- even if it’s a “hey I have a bunch going on. My mental health is important. Please be patient. I’ll have another book out by insert year” with social media, this type of post would help a lot.
"Owe" is a strong word. It makes sense to not start a task you don't intend to finish, and people should be allowed to count on an intention but everyone is human and what can ya do?
i can’t say i really blame them. seems like they’re both struggling because of how complex their stories have become. sanderson seems to write with some sort of end goal for his stories in mind which makes most of his writing process about ending up at that end goal. i’m sure rothfuss and martin have ideas for how they’d want their books to end as well, although not to the same sort of clarity that sanderson has developed as a writer. at least that’s how i see it. plus the pressure must build up over the years. what if they finally release a book and it’s just mediocre? they’ll instantly be ridiculed for taking so long just to put out an unsatisfying entry into their series. each year adds to that and i imagine having all these expectations on you just becomes more of a task than it is an enjoyable experience
I guess I get that but that's still seems like poor planning from their side and excellent planning from Sanderson's. If you want to go further, Sanderson has the entire cosmere as like a crossover universe = very complex storytelling but he still manages to make each book or series self-contained
Still a decade is hella of along time to plan for a book. I would say they are just being lazy.
It's probably better to have a bad ending than no ending. After spending 10 years trying to craft a story with little to show, you probably are a joke in the making.
My stance is somewhat toward the middle. I firmly believe that if someone starts a project it should be finished in a timely fashion (allowances for unforeseen problems and tragedies given). The author made a social contract with the audience. The author will give us said project in turn for money with the promise of a complete project forthcoming. We then pay for subsequent installments as well.
I also believe that an author should take all the time they need to make the product good enough for publication.
The compromise of the two positions is that an author should never publish book 1 of a series until not just that is ready but the others are close to if not outright ready for delivery as well. To use Kingkiller chronicles as an example, since the first one came out in 2007, the second should have come out around 2010 at the latest with Doors of stone around 2013 at the latest.
If things happen to take longer with a sequel, the author should notify the audience of the reason because that is his/her duty to the audience. "I'm sorry for how long it is taking I've been experiencing some rather traumatic things of late" or "A rather major plot hole has popped up in the narrative making me have to restart from scratch sorry for the wait."
If one doesn't do things this way, the only thing they can expect for a writing legacy is people forgetting them and moving on. An author's relationship to his audience is like a marriage. In both types of relationships it takes a lot of work and continued outpouring of affection on both sides in order for things to succeed. So does an author owe his audience a finish to the story? If he wants his audience to still love him/her then yes. If he/she doesn't care about a messy hate filled split then the author should feel free to stop writing all together.
Well when I bought book one of k.k.c the author had done a whole media campaign claiming they were all written and would be out 1 year apart.
As mentioned in the video, he is chronic reviser.
I was into Wheel of Time and totally bummed when Jordan announced how sick he was - and very likely to die before finishing the series. I couldn't help think what a loss to literature such an event would be. Thankfully he had the courage to let someone else do the job for him. I will always appreciate him and Sanderson for that.
Roger Zelazny died before finishing a sequel series to his Amber novels. Anne McCaffrey died before doing everything she wanted to do with Pern. The phenom isn't new by any means.
No, no writer 'owes' anything to their readers. But... the implicit social contract they create when they enter that field is a powerful one. The longer they delay, the more damage they do to their credibility and mass appeal.
Rothfus, as an example, might roll in $ when Doors is finally released, but would gave zero grounds for complaint if that's the last of his works anyone ever buys - simply because they have lost trust.
Their biggest obligation is to their own image and posterity. If they're not doing everything they can to protect and further that, it tells us a great deal about who they are as people. We have to decide whether we want to give folks that our hard earned $ and respect, or find someone else to provide us our entertainment.
my thoughts as well..
0:36 Stephen King isn't exactly someone I would describing as writing slow. If anything he's the one person who writes faster than Sanderson
Yeah but King pumps out garbage.
Yeah that's true, though I still think Dark Tower is a good example since it took him a long time to finish that series
This only apply with the Dark Tower I think
@@lieutenantshibby well he has some brilliant books
I moved onto John Gwynne. He has become one of my favorites. Still frustrated on the waiting for Winds of Winter. I still have so much to read. Like King Killer, Wheel of Time, Dresden Files, and Expanse. So as long as they are working on them. I'll read on with others
Ahh I need to start John Gwynne soon
John Gwynne is excellent
I think you touched on a very important point there in the end. I don't think authors owe us. Especially with how book contracts sometimes pan out, some authors are really at a disadvantage (writing a book that can stand both as a standalone and as part of series? I could never). And you talked mostly about famous, well-paid authors but there are so many small and unknown series that might not get finished because the author stopped writing, their publisher went defunct or there is not enough interest to warrant their personal investment in more books. Hell, even Mira Grant/Seanan McGuire and Victoria Schwab are affected by this and one would never think that from the way they are talked about it on here.
But we also don't owe authors. Losing interest, consuming the adaptions, reading fanfiction instead, many won't go back to the original source material. It's that simple and I don't think authors believe the opposite either.
I readed a dance with dragons in january 2020 and readed wise mans fear in february 2021. And its getting me the nerves to wait those book. I cant imagine how people could have been waiting for ten years. It would blow my mind
Brandon Sanderson has a large internal wiki for The Stormlight Archive & a continuity editor to sort out plot technicalities
Except there is a contract: the book. The plot points, the world building, the character arcs are all promises to a reader that an author will resolve these to the best of their ability. If one makes millions selling an unfinished work on the expectation that it will be completed, the author has an ethical obligation to complete it.
How many people would have bought Game of Thrones or Name of the Wind if they'd been told up front that the authors had no clue how to end their series? I'm guessing many (most?) readers would have passed.
I totally think writers owe us to complete their works. I have three strong reasons.
1. The economic commitment to the publisher and the consumer.
2. The investment readers are invited to put into the story.
...
3. It's a DiCk moove.
Generally, I don't think authors owe us anything. However, if you came out and say as a selling point to your first book that the whole series was already finished and just needs a bit of editing before being released continuously in the next 2 years, then take 5 years to publish the 2nd book, and over 10 years with no end in sight for the 3rd book I do think in this specific case it is owed. People started to support you because of something that was promised. That promise has since been greatly broken. Had he never came out and said everything is already written in the first place I don't think many people would be mad at him. And had he been focusing on his work this past decade instead of hoping on numerous side projects again and again, I don't think many people would be this mad at him just taking his time to round out the series. But he is, and basically it's a slap in all the reader's face. "I need more time", then proceeds to spend hours and months on his blog, or writing for video games, or publishing side stories.
Imagine if instead of finishing KKC, Rothfuss published the beginning of his next serie...
I kinda of wish he did, that would show everyone just how much the guy doesn't respect his audience.
Love the editing with Sanderson in the beginning. Good points, and great description on the three examples.
Personal bet: I think I will self publish my first book before either, and actually be well into my published career before either publish their next book. This I believe will have the backlash effect of Rothfuss and Jordan teaming up to publish their next books at the same time, creating a media blitz of co-appearances and teasers to bury my books under an avalanche of subjectively superior writing. Following this I will withdraw in shame and find a mountain cave where I can grow my hair and finger nails out to ludicrous length and slowly morph into a creature who has forgotten the taste of bread and the warmth of human company. There I will hatch malevolent plots to ruin the tv adaptations of their series by replacing the scripts of the last three seasons with fanfiction written by a troop of molly-dropping resus monkeys. I may have started early with Martin...That being said my money's on Rothfuss.
Man, Rothfuss will get so desperate to finish that he will channel the spirit of the dead?
I’m infinitely patient waiting for books. I’m just happy when it happens.
All we're "owed" is the book we pay for. That said, it -is- insane that it's been over 10 years for both these authors, and it's fair to be critical of the work for that. It's hard to trust either of them when they say they're working on it, and frankly, I'm not going to be buying any of their work in the future.
Then go write your book
Patrick will most likely tell the story on his streams by revealing tid bits than write the book😂
But only after we donate enough, right? Sorry Pat but Death Row Dogs and WA Humane Society get 100% of my charity donations.
Book 3 is a livestream from the Waystone Inn 😂
@@jackwinter5421 exactly 😂
Perhaps if he spent more time writing and less time flapping his gums about writing he'd be done by now.
@@thehangmansdaughter1120 yup
I love your videos, and with the consistency you are maintaining of posting one video per week over last few month is making me like the channel better better.🤩🤩
I think Rothfuss May finish Doors of Stone earlier, he is updating more and more about it which may not mean he is finishing it any time sooner, but is a step towards it. And GRRM is now busy with screen play of House of The Dragons, so it might take him longer.
As I am treading through Wise Man’s Fear, and after witnessing the Chandrians mystery at the end of Name Of The Wind, I understand why people can be impatient. But I am ready to wait (maybe😅) as long as he delivers a perfect book.
I also began Mistborn recently, even though I fell Sanderson’s prose is different from Rothfuss’s but I feel it suits his stories better, because his stories are more like action movies, where as Rothfuss project is about life story of a wizard which requires a more lyrical prose. So I love both of them equally. But I haven’t read Rhythm of War yet so can’t say anything about that. But I love all the authors who give me a book worth spending time on, finished or unfinished!
There are lots of books to read in the midtime for me:
Cosmere
Dark tower series
Foundation series
First law series
Wheel of time series
Etc
I’ve given up on a George and Patrick.
They’ve opened so many mystery boxes, they’re both struggling for answers with limited book space.
Because of this, I’ve decided to only read book series that the authors have finished.
This is a super important discussion! Love your takes here. We often talk about this "owing" idea with video games too, especially sequels. Good games, and often good books, take time, and I'd always rather wait another couple years for a better version.
Of course, fans will tragically die in between (that is something Stephen King talks about weighing on his soul as he finished The Dark Tower). But that's unfortunate, and in between any release there will be fans who can't complete the series.
After losing the Berserk author, I will never complain again.... :C
No they do not owe it to us to deliver the books if they deem them not ready yet. However they do owe us to keep us somewhat in the loop and updated to what's going on with the book.
I feel very conflicted, and I've started just avoiding authors who don't publish regularly if they are in the middle of a series. I might read ASOIAF if it's ever finished, but I'm not starting it now!
I could care less that Sanderson's prose isn't the "most amazing thing evar". He FINISHES his work and fulfills his promises to his readers. I'll take that any day of the week.
PR stated when he states , he had everything planned out and didn’t believe in making the reader wait....soooo (insert foul language here).
Then things changed during the writing process and he had to rework the entire series (apparently).
Its a gamble on both sides. Us as readers took a gamble on starting a series without an ending in sight. A series being finished in due time, or finished at all for that fact, is something that we readers take for granted as an absolute event and now that we are in a situation where the continuation or ending of something we love is not set in stone, we don’t know how to handle it. But like you said, there is an unspoken promise between an author and reader that their work will be finished. So an author taking an extended amount of time to fulfill that promise to the reader is also gambling how many, if any, readers will be at the end of that extended wait. Personally, I say back off and let them work at their own pace. I’m willing to wait in the hopes that that wait delivers us something satisfying. Authors are people too. Harassing them isn’t all of a sudden gonna yield sudden results. It seems to be deterring them actually.
Yes, yes they do. Dude, it's gotten to the point where I include knowing the end of certain books....in my PRAYERS. Lol
Lmaooo. It’s like an actual fear of my mine to die before I read the endings. So everyday it’s like please let this be the day some news drops.
I’ll one up you. Waiting for book three has cost me my faith entirely. I’m now resigned to the idea that life is meaningless and we’re all going to die and end up a bag of bones buried in a box in the ground. Thanks pat.
@@maestercraig3990 I wanna go back to the way it was before. Take me back to when I still had my youth and innocence. I don’t wanna grow up!
@@maestercraig3990 I can accept that life is meaningless and we all die, but it would make it so much easier if I had the doors of stone to ease my suffering along the journey.
Owing to his age, I fear for Martin's health. I would really love it to be him, but I think Rothfuss would. Martin surely has a lot on his plate right now, what with all the spin-offs of Game of Thrones and the House of the Dragon.
The truth of it is that grrm simply does not need to write books anymore... Besides being a book writer he is also a screenwriter.. Which I believe he actually enjoys more at his age.. Why would he bother with the book on his spare time when he is getting paid good money to write shows and could use that spare time to enjoy such money?
I feel like he'd rather work on anything else, so he keeps dropping Winds to the back burner. He's turned into that meme with the rubbernecking boyfriend.
My opinion that authors don't owe their fans anything, and that it is never okay to harass an author.
That said, if an author wants to be on good terms with their fans, it would be beneficial to keep them in the know and being open with what is happening on the writing front. And not be snide towards people who are showing interest in his or her work.
They don't owe us a completed series. They are people. I'm glad you mentioned one of my favorites, Scott Lynch. Well worth reading even if we don't have a continuation yet.
They don't owe us anything, however I think it's important for authors to get called out on promises broken to fans or lies told. Rothfuss said in 2007 the books were written and they'd come out once a year. It wasn't an unspoken promise in his case.
I can't know for sure but to me it feels like he's trying to milk the fame of his books for as long as possible. I am often curious why diehard fans keep inviting this discussion, it seems self-defeating.
I don't know who will finish first, but I won't be reading either until they do.
I have given up hope on these two authors ever giving a satisfying conclusion to their series. My only regret is starting out with them on this journey to nowhere. On the one hand the books are amazing and captivating on a level that few authors ever attain. But that's the set up for the massive disappointment to come. I don't have decades to invest my money, my time, or my emotions on a pipe dream. Do or do not. There is no try.
Do they owe me a book?
No. Of course not.
Just give me my money back and we'll call it square and I'll eat the time and heartache invested and take it as lesson learned.
GRRM hurt made it easy to give up on rothfuss. I spent years on the forums and on his blog looking for news.. I started reading the series after watching the first series so I got lucky really. But still many years ago. So when I worked out rothfuss was the same I wrote it off Immediately.
That's a pretty reasonable take on it, kudos to you for it. :)
Hands up, if with hindsight, you would rather have waited an extra two years for the GoT TV show to film more episodes and play out the storylines in a different way? Assume that it would be dramatically better in whatever way you might have felt it was lacking, more threads would have been wrapped up, and everyone would have sung the praises of the last seasons.
I would love it if Patrick Rothfuss could finish the Doors of Stone this year. But not as much as I want him to be around in sixty years, having published another five or ten books. His prose and story is off the charts good. If it takes a long time to get that good, that's fine. I've got Sanderson and thousands of others I can read in the meantime. There are still classic films I've not had the chance to watch. And museums I haven't visited. I'm catered for in general entertainment terms. What I'm lacking is another West Wing, The Wire, a Doors of Stone, a Terry Pratchett or Iain Banks.
My bigger interest is in what comes after he finishes Kingkiller. I would honestly love to hear him say he's going to spend six months interviewing other authors, visiting them, and learning from them about their process. We all have a different process, which we create like some made up vehicle from a random selection of Lego. It's something that you iterate on, and there are ways to get faster, just as there are in any manufacturing job, or in writing code, or painting houses. Not everything works for everyone, but there are enough tweaks that there are always things you are not doing well, that slow you down.
I know a lot of authors, and many are more productive than Sanderson. Yes. That's a thing. He could write a lot more if you never saw him on RUclips, or he wasn't signing books, or doing his courses, or his podcast. Possibly. Or not. He might find that not doing those things would crush his mental health and his overall productivity. I know plenty of authors who went full time and slowed down because it's not an easy transition to make. Anxiety, and imposter syndrome are real. Mental health issues and health issues of all manner are real. Some write fast, some don't. Some write clean and fast, some clean up in edits.
If you only look, you'll see the same in other fields. Get together one hundred bricklayers, and there'll be some who make a beautiful garden wall, and some who don't. Some will do a great job, faster than others and it isn't necessarily because they're older and more experienced.
I hope for the next project he does, Patrick Rothfuss is able to find a better process, for HIM and HIS needs, not mine as a reader who wants more top notch books. I'd love to see him write something great, but shorter and less complex if he actually wants to do that. I think there are ways he could be happier, and more productive, and he has only to find the methods that work for him, as we all do.
For instance, I could really do with someone standing over my shoulder, preventing me from commenting on RUclips videos in defense of authors. ;)
Do authors owe us? Yes...but also no...so maybe. I always struggle with this. But like you said I think updates are key, just let your readers know what's going on. I don't mind if a book takes a while just so long as I know a book is still coming. Even if they updated us to say there will be no more books that's better than being in the dark. But no matter what side you fall on no one should harass them about it, in fact just don't harass anyone
Just finished A Wise Man's Fear and went straight to your channel. Now this lol
IMO - Martin will get Winds done before Doors of Stone. That said, DoS will be done years before a Dream of Spring (which I worry we'll never see given Martin's age, unfortunately), so Rothfuss will beat Martin in getting his series done first.
No, authors don't owe readers anything. And we as readers do not own them.
Step back , be patient.
Dark Tower, Earthsea and Thomas Covenant are among the best loved series of all time, now that they're finished - before that, probably. Took decades, but that's not an issue anymore. We can only hope same will happen here.
And you're right - readers don't owe the authors their undying love and patience either.
Being fast helps, being good at PR helps. But neither makes you a good author by themselves.
Being slow or bad at PR doesn't make you a bad one.
Are they obligated to finish their stories? No. Is it moral for them to get their $$$ from readers for the first couple of books and then fail to finish the series? No. Regardless of what happens, a lot of respect has been lost.
Particularly when they state a clear intended number of volumes from the start. It's more of a promise by that point, a promise broken when they teeter off with one or two books remaining.
I'm firmly in the Neil Gaiman "George R.R. Martin is not your bitch" camp, personally. If there's a contract issue between the author and the publisher, then that's their business. Speaking as someone who has aspirations to write and has yet to complete anything, I get that it's a creative process and you can't dictate someone else's creativity. There's a lot more involved than just sitting down at a keyboard and smacking the keys. The more external pressure, the harder it is for some people to perform. I appreciate Sanderson and his transparency with the process but honestly ... every author has the right to work in their own way. We can like it or not, and we can choose to buy their books or not.
As for Rothfuss vs. Martin.... since Pat has only one book left to complete the series, and George has two, I'm betting on Rothfuss. I'm an optimist at heart, so I believe both of them fully intend to finish, and I'll keep myself busy with my ever growing TBR (and rereading my other favorite series) until then. If they never do, I've lost nothing in the end.
I completely agree. You put my thoughts perfectly into world 😀
They do owe us the conclusion. Every story stared has an in-built promise that the story has a conclusion. And every promise made must be kept.
I think it depends on the question if you look at it from a perspective inspired by law or from a perspective of responsibility.
We definitely aren't entitled to get the series finished by law or by a perspective inspired by law. But I think that when you create something that so many people put effort into and build an emotional connection to and you want them to do so and reinforce them in doing so then you have a responsibility for what you have created. And you also have a bit of a responsibility for your fans because they put trust in you and they bought your books and spent their time with them in good faith that he will finish what he started so that the time and money was well spent.
This doesn't oblige you to finish what you started. But I think it shows character when you give your best to do so and shows a lack of character if you don't. And I think it's a bit difficult to say if Patrick Rothfuss does. I mean, yes, he talks about mental problems and I know several people who also struggle or struggled with them. So yes that can make it way harder to finish what you started and that has to be kept in mind when talking about his unfinished work. But on the other hand he seems to have a lot of creative energy that he invests in other projects. So the problem doesn't seem to be a lack of energy because of his mental problems.
I read The Name of the Wind when I was in high school, 17 years old. The Wise Man's Fear came out after I finished grad school. I am now 32 years old. I will wait however long it takes. Even if he doesn't finish, The Name of the Wind will always be my favorite book.
Being a mood reader and loves character driven plots like myself, anticipation can only last so long before disinterest follows.
I have finished KKC and ASOIAF years ago and I have unconsciously drifted apart from their stories. Like a friend who becomes an acquaintance and slowly, a stranger.
I have to reread the rest of the books in case they drop new ones out and I don't think I will be up for that. Unless, I somehow learn to care about the characters again.
Brandon sanderson is like our mom who spoils us with tasty food and everything else seems dull comparatively.:)
Lol. Exactly.
Authors don't owe their readers anything but as you mentioned we don't owe them anything. If an author wants to put out things that aren't part of their main writing they most certainly shouldn't be surprised if their fans refuse to pay for them simply out of principle. You don't owe me that final book, but I don't owe you any of my money for every random side project you think is more important to work on than the book that I actually want to read.
Nah man all you're gonna get is wildcards and dunk and egg and you're gonna be happy with it. Maybe, just maybe if you're lucky George will work on another videogame before even thinking about touching WoW
Martin has not one, but TWO books left. So, ye know... not exactly optimistic about the completion of my first adult fantasy series.
Actually, it doesn't bother me, if it won't get finished and just stays as is. I enjoyed fan theories as coming home, discovering more/new things and, eventually, getting a sense of closure.
Haven't read the other two series. So, there is that.
Well it would be nice if they found someone to finish the series for him in case he dies. Or if he makes a kind of draft how the series would have ended.
Well it would be nice if they found someone to finish the series for him in case he dies. Or if he makes a kind of draft how the series would have ended.
I often think that the version of these books the fan communities have written in their heads while they wait, will in many cases be better than the finished product (or at least equally as good). It's kinda inevitable when you have that many dedicated and creative people applying their imaginations over so many years.
My money is on Rothfuss. I think it's beginning to sink in that any way he ties this story up, is better than nothing.
His writing is so different to anything else I've ever read, he could legit end with with Kote telling the Chronicler he's full of shit and he was just fucking with him the whole time and I'd still enjoy it
If an author of a thicc fantasy series can't complete it, it's time to read and write fan fiction. Or heck, try writing your own series.
(Also, between the two of them, my bets on Rothfuss completing his series first. I feel like GRRM lost his steam after the poor reception of the show's finale.)
I also believe that the show kinda messed up with grrm plans... Like, people really didnt like bran being ruler at the end.. So grrm is like "well that was where I was heading with the ending, maybe I should change that but how? .. I honestly feel that asoiaf got so big and with so many branches that he has literally no clear idea how to wrap up everything in a proper way
@@oscarbautista4156 Yeah, I think the trouble is that there were so many characters and so many subplots that it's difficult to bring the story to a satisfactory end at this point.
Also I don't think more time spent working on something=better quality. In fact I think it's an unfortunate indicator when something IS taking much longer than normal that it isn't going to be great...
Yeah lol. If I write a song with a quick burst of creativity it's always better than when I sit there for a week trying to make it perfect
To be fair with Martin, he did write some books between Dance of Dragons and the still unfinished Winds of Winter. He is also the editor of Wild Cards and several anthologies. And the executive producer of Game of Thrones and several other series.
Yeah, he may not have been working on Winds of Winter as much as we liked, but he was working on other stuff at the time.
ASOIAF fans need to come to terms with the fact that there is no way it will ever be finished. We will be lucky to get Winds of Winter. Dream of Spring just isn’t going to happen.
Frankly, some writers don’t give any s***s about their fan base but are happy to live off the money we’ve already given them. I’m tired of waiting for either Rothfuss or Martin’s sequels and won’t be buying them if they ever get released.
Where is the follow up video to this? I demand it!!!!
20 years ago Song of Ice and Fire was my favorite contemporary fantasy. Now I just stopped caring. There are so other great writers out there like Sanderson and Gwynne, along with so many née writers. I’ll support those authors and read their material.
I've just found you and I already love your channel. Amazing videos.
ASOIAF has always been my number 1 fantasy series. I remember being so immersed in the world and just absolutely loving every page! Then the show came out and i saw everything I pictured in my head come to life on the screen and it was amazing. Aaaaaand then i picked up the KKC. Blown away once again! I’m torn bw the two but if i really had to choose, I’d probably say I’m more excited for Doors of Stone. Maybe because it’s fresh in my mind. Maybe because TNOTW caught me off gaurd and i fell in love with everything about the book. Or maybe i just don’t know! All in all, i love both series and hope we get new books soon 😅
I lean towards Martin because I think he’s under more pressure and has more help. Either way, when one of them finally puts out a book, they will no longer be on this “hold out” together so it will put more pressure on the other. I think we will get release dates for both within a year of each other
Hmm I maybe see Pat deciding to work faster if tWoW releases or gets a release date, seeing another writer get out of a similar situation might motivate him, his story would undoubtedly be easier to tie up too, but I feel like George wouldn't even begin to concern himself with other writers and their releases when it comes to his own work, his story is so in depth and complicated and intricate that I don't see him rushing it for anything, especially not if all this pressure over the last 10 years hasn't gotten him to rush it yet
I’m gonna say it how I feel it. Authors do owe us stuff but at the same time, if you havent finished a book in 10 years then you’re not really a writer, more of a sitter around. Sitters around don’t owe us anything.
LOL
Yet somehow Rothfuss is still attending conventions without even blushing...
I agree with a lot of what you said except for suggesting that length of time between novels improving the quality of writing.
Martin's first 3 books are far superior in storytelling yet they were all released within a couple of years of each other. Books 4 and 5 took much longer, and the quality suffered.
Another example is Malazan Book of the Fallen. Erickson crafted a world and story that is far more complex than anything Martin or Rothfuss have done, yet he released all 10 novels in the same amount of time that we've been waiting for Martin and Rothfuss' next books.
I think it would be funny if Butcher finished Dresden before both Door of Stone and Dream of Spring came out, especially since Butcher took 5 years off to deal with real world problems and probably would’ve had it done by now or very nearly.
Yes, the people they do owe are their publishers, because a signed contract is a different kind of "owing".
But it's also because they're among the top-selling authors that the publisher is willing to give the time they need. If a smaller offer took as long as George or Patrick, they'd have been dropped a long time ago.
When you buy book one of a seven part series there is an implied contract that the series will be finished. Authors have the option write stand alone books. You could also release some in trilogies. Just complete the narrative and be grateful you have the coolest job in the world.
They owe me nothing. But with them I learned to never spend money on an unfinished series.
I think Brandon is going to end both of their books xD
Let's hope so! haha
I’ll say they owe it to them selves, because artists most of the time are bothered by unfinished works. Unless you’re a chaos worker 🙃
I don’t think Martin will release his book and Rothfuss will release his eventually, just don’t hold your breath. I think someone will have to finish Martin’s work one day
A trilogy IS a promise of 3 books. No other answer.
You can tell bad for the author having difficulties, that's up to you.
John Gwynne like Sanderson is another prolific author. He's pretty much getting a book out every year!!
I'm with Jay somewhere in the middle regarding Martin and Rothfuss! We are not entitled to get anything from an author but waiting over 10 years for a book is borderline taking the piss! 😖