I love how nothing changed between this video's time and today(Nov 2023) and how his opinions on DJ have drastically shifted just by seeing other top players putting him at bottom 5 level. Adrian went from DJ is still top 10 to trash character. Claims, still OP open damage, with like 0 execution, proceeds to drop double electric into ff4 route, a 100 times. 'Still 30 damage wall ender', proceeds to drop the highly niche and terrible cd1 wall ender another few 100 times.
It'd be better if it was +0 to +3 but leave the opponent close. Heck, maybe even -2. Namco are trying to do some weird kind of contrast and promote some kind of neutral game but doubt they're applying it to the whole cast. At times like this wish they'd express the direction of these patches
I still don’t think rendering a brand new move completely useless to the point that we’ll never see it again makes any sense. They didn’t need to delete the damage, they just needed to normalize it.
I found it more weird that they took away Devil Jins unscaled damage, but then looked at Marduks rage drive and thought "yeah this is fine" You can't even use the excuse of "Marduk didn't get nerfed because he's DLC" considering a DLC character got hit the hardest this patch. Idk what the Fahk they were thinking.
@@LeiChaobruh just hopped in the training mode to check if you're right and it's still unscaled in combos, and still does 77 damage if you land it raw. So if it did get nerfed it was barely at all and they still didn't fix the big problem which was the lack of scaling
The problem isn’t that DJ got nerfed, it’s that he got nerfed hard while Paul, Feng, Zafina, and Akuma didn’t when they needed it more, if you’re gonna nerf a character because he had broken moves then do that with everyone and make it fair, and you saying that wall combo made you hate the character, but literally everything Geese had that was broken still made you enjoy playing him tho? Like how lol
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos.
@@faeylis top 5 character? yet how many players actually won tournaments with DVJ in the history of Tekken 7? oh yea only Qudans and Knee, name other players who had consistent success with dvj in tournament play
The funniest thing about this : After getting what 80% of the online Tekken community wanted, now Marduk is all of a sudden the next huge problem. Imo they should’ve just nerfed the damage of his b21 and given him a counter hit side Fall like old kazuya uraken. Still a powerful flow with b3 but reactable. Instead and this is imo HUGE his enjoyment in tournaments grows for me now. One of a kind wall pressure/mix ups were my personal enjoyment with devil Jin because he’s so powerful on this and I’d love to see Qudans actively do this again.
I hope in Tekken 8, power level heavily scales with execution and gameplan difficulty again. I would like to see all true Mishimas, Jin, Bryan, Steve, in top 10. The classic Tekken staples.
I mostly agree, but there are genuinely skilled players out there, fundamentals-wise, who may just prefer a simpler character for a given reason. I'd say a character's gameplan complexity and variety of mixups and tools should scale with execution and difficulty. So basically, a simple character could still be strong, but their gameplan would have to be comparatively straightforward and honest to match. A character with tools like Leroy's should be an execution demon. Gimmicks, multipurpose moves, and super-unorthodox tools, if viable, should be more difficult to use. Just as a general rule.
@@ThatGuy-me8wb I think it depends. For sure more options should = more execution. Steve, DJ, Bryan, Jin, Lee, what Leory should be, etc. If you want lots of good options you should have to earn them. But then also more simple characters with specific very strong top of their class level tools should also have high execution, to earn the use of those of those exceptionally strong tools: Kazuya, Heihatchi, Dragunov, Law, the difficulty Julia and Marduk should be to have tools that strong. Now don't get me wrong we still absolutely need simple and easy characters for people with worse execution and people who want a simple gameplan. Easy characters to get into tekken and really learn the deeper parts of the game, for more casual players, etc. But they don't deserve to be as strong or have as strong tools as the characters who have to execute their stuff. We absolutely should have Bob, Jack, Asuka, Lars. But they don't deserve to be in the same tier strength wise as a Mishima. Don't make them low tier or anything, make them playable, but for sure leave them a step down from the execution characters. Mechanical skill is a part of the game and should be highly rewarding. Characters who do not require this skill don't deserve to be at the top in terms of strength. The only exception I would make for this is if their gameplan is extremely deep and specific but not as execution heavy, but requiring more reads and specific move usage with many weaker tools rather than any super powerful tools. Yoshi, Lei, Feng, Xiaoyu, Leo etc. Even then I would leave them slightly weaker than the top tiers because at the end of the day they are still much more consistent because they don't need great execution, but they deserve to be stronger than the easy and non technical characters. I think there is also an interesting niche for some characters like Paul where you could build them in such a way as to have a decently effective gameplan with low execution, but they have some strong tools that would unlock another power level once you have the execution. I would like to see Paul pushed more into this direction: more just frame stuff, difficult technical deathfist links, etc. Fahk could also go this way where his pokes and basic mixups are left easy but some specific armor break combos and stuff could be insanely hard so you could play easy and consistent or hard and much more powerful but in the same character.
@@Saskaruto16 By this logic there is absolutely nothing wrong with Akuma. Hardest execution in the game rewarded by being the best character with 1 hit death combos if you are good enough. He has ridiculously strong tools but again the hardest execution in the game. This obviously shouldn't be how it works. Execution is 1 singular aspect of skill at the game. Players who have less execution can be far better players that have 10x the level of execution all characters should have execution requirements but basing the tier of a character around how hard there execution is is silly. "Oh well Akuma is the hardest so well just give him ridiculous tools because why not you have to have execution to make full use of them!" Execution should be limited to combo damage you get more damage if you can execute the hard stuff there shouldn't be a direct correlation between tier and execution otherwise you are effectively punishing players who simply don't have as good of execution even if they are the better player.
@@jobo2243 So firstly I think you're taking a pretty bad faith version of my argument to build a strawman you could more easily knock down than arguing with what I actually said. Execution should be a strong justification for not only combo damage, but other tools as well. If one character has to do a tight execution attack to use a tool in neutral, say like Dragunov WR2, it deserves to be stronger than a tool someone can access just by pressing F2. However execution even at it's most difficult needs to have limits on the power it gives. I in no way said that Akuma was justified by his execution. However Akumas problems are more specific to him. ---- For instance: Jab starter combos even at their strongest shouldn't give half life combos. It doesn't matter if it's an exceptionally difficult combo to do. Nothing justifies breaking the fundamentals of a game to such an egregious extent by giving a character such a broken tool. Death combos as a concept I also find completely unjustified. It really doesn't matter whether it costs meter (which is largely the justification for the 2D fighters besides the execution). It's a fundamental flaw in modern Tekken that on many maps and stages, multiple characters can straight up take 80+ percent health or even death combo off of a single neutral win. While I think damage should very much scale based on execution, there has to be a maximum limit. If I had my way, between 50-60% would be the absolute highest damage the most technical demanding highest damage characters could pull off in single combo. Going beyond that removes incentive to play neutral over just turtling and looking for a launch/counterhit with ridiculous reward. 2D jump is near game breaking. The speed, the crushing, relative safety, and strong reward. It's the best parts of a hopkick and orbital all in one then made even stronger on top of it. Like I said, no matter how technical you want something to be, it still has to have maximum limits. That's fundamentally the issue with Akuma, he breaks the limits that establish the fundamentals of Tekken, and not just in a single way that could make him a new and interesting character, but in so many ways that he is essentially playing a different game than everyone else and anyone who fights him is at a disadvantage because of it. None of those things have to do with his difficulty, these are all design decisions in his kit that break the game, they just tried to justify it through difficulty which didn't work. ----- Execution is a large part of skill. If someone else has better execution, but you have stronger neutral but bad execution, you aren't the better player. Yes there are multiple factors that go into skill, but execution should be one of the most highly valued in terms of character strength, as it is the most inherent to the function of the character. That's not saying you can't be a top player without having top level execution. As I said even the characters with less mechanical difficulty should be playable, but they need to have depth somewhere else like in the complexity of their gameplan. But yes the more skills a character requires, the stronger they should be, in neutral, punish, and combos. Execution is the only aspect that can effect every single situation in Tekken, so it needs to be one of if not the most rewarding. If you have poor execution, or your character requires no execution, yeah you should be punished for that. If you're putting in the extra work to have to execute difficult things in every aspect of your gameplay, you deserve better tools to work with. That's not going to stop a better player. If one player has better overall skill than another person, they will win. That's why Knee could play someone like Josie or Gigas and destroy any non-top player for free. But if JDCR is playing a character that requires execution for neutral, punish, and combos, and Knee is playing a character who requires no real execution, JDCR deserves better tools in his character in every aspect he has to execute on that Knee doesn't. I don't think that's arguable. More work should = more reward. You don't want an easy pick up and play character to be strong because that doesn't reward skill. You need some of them for newer players to get into tekken, but that's all they should be for. Character strength should be determined by difficulty in gameplan and execution, skill, in the game.
I completely understand the wall bounce and b2.1 nerfs but why nerf UF4 that much you can just make it the way it was in season 3 and to be honest TMM i completely biased against dvj just because he is a kazuya main this review lacks an unbiased opinion to be honest….
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos.
Mainman: DJ is fine he has 105 damage combo Proceeds to miss highly situational combo over and over again No wall damage and tremendous execution heavy DJ is pretty much dead: who wants to put so much work even in the favorite character to get bodied by lesser players over and over just because they use true top tier. You know the answer, because we all want to win
Can you explain his absence in tournaments, if he was so broken. I am pretty sure if a character is considered broken he will be consistently in top 8's of tournament. As we have seen people who win tekken 7 tournaments mostly use broken characters like akuma, stupid geese, leroy, julia, feng. But your so broken devil jin is no where to be found in tournaments.
Never understood this anti DJ behaviour, the character is nowhere to be found in most big tournament top 8, one of the worst winrate online , and one of the most wellknown match up in the game (legacy character). At evo the first DJ was ranked 33...
Tbh listening to tmm was mistake in the first place. He is casual. Casual lowkey rant about almost anything. Maybe wait for another dvj player like qudans(where the hell is this guy btw?) take Or just wait for knee take, the evo champ himself.
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever. It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
tbh, I watched the video only to hear and laugh with his poor analysis of the char. At no time did I expect something positive from this because its clearly seen he's not DJ player. he just a Kaz enthusiast who only knows how to execute PEWGF, EWGF hellsweep and only dominates 2P side. Lets wait thoughts from a real pro DJ player :D
Idk man I feel like these nerfs are too harsh when there is other characters roaming around nearly as broken and some even more broken and much much easier to use. Plus devil jin is literally the main character in the game shouldn't he be rewarded to be at least top 3?
@@Anivrat1 ye agreed jin is completely busted he has insane damage on everything even his rage drive while devil jin does a full combo and gets like 60 damage unless it's an electric.
6:13 that's not actually the max damage. The Max damage Is EWGF, Up laser into FF4 (3-4 more damage than the Double EWGF) which is easier than the Double EWGF but still hard because of the timing of FF4.
@@aKNeKr I don't think that's true cause I've faced no such problems, it's just that there's a timing to the FF4 that no one tells you and I had to figure out on my own and it's that you can't do it too fast or too slow you need to do a Deep dash and the FF4 will hit the air but still connect so if you get your hands set on that timing, man does it become easy but as Atlante pointed out it's super hard to get used to and Online it just ruins the timing and it's the reason why my DJ is still not at Omega I don't want to make myself get used to doing anything other than the Max damage.
I've only ever landed 2 ewgf and a ff4 once but ewgf into laser and ff4 i can do it consistently haha good to know i don't gotta torture myself anymore trying 2 ewgf into ff4
Yeah but ConManSwe lies to it’s audience by calling it a staple to misrepresent DJ’s damage, even korean pros don’t attempt double electric into ff4 in competitive play, and guess what? ConManSwe doesn’t either
Mainmain has always been jealous of Devil Jin/Jin as he favoured Kazuya. But the Nerf overall is really bad for Mishima in general as it makes the already difficult playstyle less attractive to regular players.
@@HeyMomonia Yep. Easy mode characters like Feng, Paul, Claudio, Marduk, and maybe even Negan or Jack-7 that are better off after the patch (since characters stronger than them were nerfed) means those characters will be stronger than Mishimas now.
@@HeyMomonia Not a crazy thing to say tbh. But I think dj might still be stronger than paul. Paul still tanks on the low department and dj still has hellsweep and db2.
He's not fine and this video is gonna age poorly. Just my opinion...Idk how half the cast with safe homing launching mids and yet Dvj was busted because of a guaranteed grounded hit. TMM shows a 40 dmg hellsweep combo...bro it does 38 damage raw. 2 extra damage for the combo and no oki like Kaz gets from his hellsweep. I mean you risk FULL LAUNCH COMBO and your reward is 40 dmg?? Pathetic. I could go on but yah, he's got one of the worst rage drives too. Kaz has one of the best. This is never mentioned.
TMM is hopelessly lost when talking about those two characters and he has been that way all of t7. And then he acts surprised when much better players see those two and even their matchup against each other completely differently ( like the saudi Kaz). He is just way off on that one specific topic because of his Kaz bias 🤷
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos.
I’m from the future playing tekken 8 in April 2024. Devil Jin is still shit, and the bias against him from the community and the developers is as strong as ever.
TMM spent almost 5 mins trying to showcase a "ungodly amount of dmg" of a combo in practice mode and only pulled it off once, yet complains about the damage. TMM is delusional if he thinks DJ is still top 10
Have you seen his newer tier list? He retracted his statement and changed his heart after using him more after this video. He’s not even top 10 or 20 from the video he currently made due to his neutered damage and the removal of uf4 knockdown.
yep, and that's the main dvj weakness: no reliable and safe mid launchers. in other hand is a wellrounded character and before patch 5.0 he had a god like 50/50, so there was literally no reason to prefer kaz over dvj. Now this pg is finally well balanced, and i'm sating that while i'm a dvj main ( bad dvj but,he's funny to play xD)
This is not fun to hear that DJin didn't need the only power mid in his arsenal when Kazuya is overtuned and absurdly dumbed down. Well, at least BNamco could buff DJin's b4 like Kazuya's so that move wouldn't miss on grounded opponent at straight axis knockdown.
Steel pedal and demon paw are as strong as ever. Him having b4, df1, launching hs, tracking ws2, u4 alongside plenty other good panic options, ff4, easy mode 15f launcher, farther reaching ewgf and flashpunch is enough to outclass both hei and kazuya. Uf4 still remains a safe low crushing power mid. Uf3 isnt bad either Now I am terrible at using kazuyas hellsweep but a 36 damage 18f if executed perfectly power low with no evasion and weak tracking that risks 70 damage and mids that quickly lose his momentum arent enough to make him comparable to dvj, who is also still far easier and reliable
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever. It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
@@RisingPhoenix05 Huh? If Dvj ff2 is power mid than what is Ff3 and f4 with Kaz?? Ultra Mega Super Saiyan Mids? Ff2 is just a regular ass move man, 24 damage no ch no combo get real.
The thing they should have done is to make so the UF4 leaves the opponent closer you DJ can actually use the advantage. Now it feels like a relatively useless move unless you have a hard read on crushing a low.
@Harri Kirvesniemi You can't judge a move by what you don't lose - you judge it by risk reward. What you get for landing it: piss poor damage and reset to neutral. What you lose by getting it blocked - you lose your turn and initiative. What you lose by getting it sidestepped - a chunk of you life, turn and initiative/knockdown. Not worth it for anyone who knows what risk reward is
@Harri Kirvesniemi do you even understand what neutral means? It means no advantage and disadvantage for both players. So basically there's no reward for doing that move anymore. Tbh kazuya players still won't accept the fact that kazuya is the best mishima now
@Harri Kirvesniemi Only at the wall - which is situational. In neutral pushback resets everything to zero plus frames. But you have a point - there is a fraction of usability to the move close to the wall, which still doesn't change anything described above - DJ got nerfed hard without anything in return.
LOL I was saying "careful Mainman.... some might see that as a defense in Akuma's favor for being able to do what he does." Btw I do agree he should be rewarded for doing something hard. In that vein they should revert the ex tatsu buffs, he never needed them and it didn't help his online win rate much anyway because Akuma's best features are not his death combos (contrary to popular belief).
he's rewarded quite a bit too much. it doesn't matter what character you are or how good you are, no character should be able to get 80-90% damage from a single combo
@@DemonSaine ahhh the old "no character should be able to do 80%+ combo damage from 1 combo." Honestly if it were easy to do his combos I might agree with you. Thing is dropping those combos can cost you big (cost you the match) and they are harder to do than just about anything else. I will say that they never should made the ex tatsu changes. Those combo routes should not exist. I will agree that doing that much damage via ex tatsu is too much. Also I think Akuma definitely shouldn't have 10f launchers because that goes beyond doing too much damage, that is punishing you severely for so much as breathing wrong. Akuma definitely needs nerfs, but combo damage ain't one of them.
1:07 says it all. A combo, that MainMan dropped the first time by the way, with all of that execution required for only 40 damage. Meanwhile take Hwoarang for example, who can quite literally only press 4 a few times and get 57 damage. A 57 damage string by pressing ONE BUTTON. How on earth does that make any sense
@@TheUnique69able he's basically saying to hit him with less dmg outpout moves so he can manage to keep up with the pressure of one the most punishable moves if blocked
I'm struggling to figure out what the basis for some of these nerfs are. DJ has one of the lowest win rates online and is practically unseen in top level play. So if he's not doing well at the casual level or tournament level, why nerf him?
DvJ was too all round, and too good at that, he has good pokes, he has a strong mixup and he has also a lot of dmg and he has EWGF which is one of the strongest moves in the game. So the basis for the nerfs are that his mixup was too strong, if you're an all round character like he is you shouldn't have such a strong mixup, hellsweep launched and if you were near the wall you'd get demolished by his ultra damaging wall combo and that took no effort. So that's the reasong for the nerfs at his mixup, it didn't align with the character's idea of been able to do everything but in a weaker way if confronted to other Mishimas. Also remember, DvJ is one of the hardest chars to play, even before nerfs so it shouldn't surprise you that he has a low win rate online, but at high level play he was insanely strong because once you get over the difficulties that come from playing a Mishima (not many panic moves, relying mostly on timing and the execution barrier he and all the Mishimas have) what you had was a pretty much perfect character, you had one of the strongest mixup, still has incredible space control and reliable punishes and the most damaging combo in the game which is super easy to do. He's not used much in tournaments because he in fact is the most reliable choice between the Mishimas, it's just that there are better choices and they are not as execution heavy. I hope you now understand why he got nerfed this much. And (referring to the other comment) not because ppl want their character to be better, it's not like Mainman is the only one that said he was broken lol.
@@rhadvana The low win rate online makes sense because of the high execution barrier; but if he had the potential to be the "perfect" character, why is he almost never used in tournaments? Why did they nerf DJ but not Akuma, who is clearly more of an issue? Why bother nerfing DJ but not characters like Feng, Marduk, Zafina, and Julia? If the execution barrier is so high that even the best players in the world can't crack it then why bother at all?
@@formless_dev Because tournament play is a different setting, you see since Mishimas in general are good in deathmatches and not in best of 3 or best of 5 mostly because there are better options that are not as execution heavy, Lidia is one example, Geese is another, Akuma is on a league of his own I guess, but I don't know why they didn't nerf him, and actually I don't know if they changed something about him in this patch. The other argument you can make is the execution is correlated to nerves during a tournament, ofc you're more likely to not use an optimal punish or like launch punish something because there's the stress involving the match. The fact remains that DvJ was overtuned because of his strong mixup which he shouldn't have had in the first place, you see he had uf4 plus the b4 follow up and launching hellsweep that wasn't 40 dmg only if you were near a wall or even midscreen in some stages you could take it to 50/60 dmg with b2,1 which was the strongest wall combo ender in the game. But the mixup "god" between the Mishimas should be Kazuya, in fact he specializes in that, but it was okay for DvJ up until now to have a stronger mixup when he can also do great pokes and space control right? So the only reason you'd pick another Mishima is because of design difference. As for why not nerf Akuma idk dude haha. I feel like Akuma is execution heavy in terms of combos and not in terms of choosing a punishment move. Ofc it's not like for this reason you can't feel the stress of a match or somethinf like that, I don't mean this but I guess he's that strong that many people picked him up I guess and he's worth the effort, both are hard to play but I guess the reward Akuma gives you is infinitely better. So that's why you see more Akuma than DvJ I think, but I don't really know Akuma as character, I just know that he can do saucy stuff, so this argument may not be difficult to disassemble haha, as for why not nerf those chars you mentioned, I'm gonna be honest with you I have no fucking idea haaha, the balancing of this game was all over the place after all, but I know for sure that this DvJ nerf is a good choice
“Up forward foe” 😂 Coming from 2024 and tekken 8. Devil jin is bottom 3 and i miss when he was a menace like this. He hasn’t recovered from these nerfs
TMM with Feng: he still a HUGE poblem, since knee won with him even, before he wasn't a poblem TMM with DJ: Don't worry he still fine, heelsweep launcher which you can't backdash hard to ss because of wavu, tracking mid launcher only -12, tracking electric impossible to launch punish, u4 fucks off most of your movelist and is tricky to punish with most character. No no this is not broken, Feng is the poblem. And you din'dt even do a video on Jin, he is not hard, he literally has everything, and everything is good apart for jab range, half movelist tracks ssr, other half ssl, f4 range ch launcher, homing, electric, hellsweep launcher same as DJ.
Jin not hard are you high? He has the lowest winrate online the majority of pros don't even play him because of his difficulty why do you think knee chose feng instead of jin which he can play we saw this in season 2 knee play jin once and never play him again.
Honestly I'm happy about this as a devil jin main bc now I can actually get compliments for reaching a high rank with him or beating someone in a set with him and most importantly stopping the hate on him bc I think he's pretty cool and kazuya as well both are my mains.
@@lolo6089 yeah i dont understand the dev team, my issue with devil jin was just that launching hell sweep, if they just removed the launching property, i think the problem of the whole character was (almost?) solved! instead they nerf almost every facet of the character, they basically go either overkill or nothing, what are they thinking? and i'm still waiting for the marduk cancer and feng nerfs
@@lolo6089 hell nah that's the weakest wall ender in the game, I opt for laser scraper for consistent combos Sometimes use df3,2,4 fly 3 at low slump depending on distance from wall, it's super high in damage And cd1 rarely
Just because he isnt suited for or isnt played at tournaments DOESNT mean he isnt an overturned character. He excelled and was oppressive in every type of set except for tournaments. By this logic, should Chloe receive nerfs because of the emergence of Kaizur, and should Marduk have received buffs?
@@Wingnut202 what does suited for tournament even mean? Shouldn’t all the characters in the game have a similar prospect of doing well in competitive play? Why is such an extremely difficult character that even the best players in the world struggle to win a game with get nerfed like that?
Agree , furthermore DJ is one of the lowest winrate online, one of most wellknown match up (legacy character) and quite difficult to master. You nerf a character who wins the most match at any level. Thats not the case with DJ
exactly, the only person who regularly used him in tournaments, at the highest level was Knee....but so many people putting him at S tier, but just how many devil jins won tournaments outside of Qudans and Knee in the history of Tekken 7? even in Korea people didn't play DVJ in tournaments much at all, and mishimas have always been popular in korea
@@hospitalcleaner yea probably lol...because to counter against Mishimas is actually not just guessing 50/50 all day, but using movement to reduce being forced to guess low or mid all day, but obviously, lower to mid level rank players don't know how to sidestep, so all they do is try to guess all the 50/50, which is not the best way to fight against mishimas, gotta SSL and SWL against them along with blocking etc
@@bludika so what ? Everyone puts Akuma as the best character in the game, yet how many Akumas have we seen win tournaments in the last couple months ? Devil Jin isn’t played a lot because he requires some tough execution, which makes him inconsistent, which is why tournament players will rather play Paul,Geese,Feng or Zafina since they are wayyyy more consistent. That doesn’t change the fact that the character is strong.
@@frantschou2369 okay, What does having an Akuma winner in the last couple months have to do with anything? lmao you think Akuma wasn't strong since day 1 and only just recently? wtf you trying to say lol? Atiff Buff did win the TWT back in februrary btw... but overall, over the life span of Tekken 7, you know how many time an Akuma won high level tournaments? many times by many different players.
@Baby gimme Feet But CD 2 is so hard to land that I don't think most people would be using that. If you do it too early, CD2 only does 10 damage. If you do it too late, it would whiff. You need to land it in a very narrow window to get the full 30 damage.
With UF4's prior purpose axed, do you think people will utilized CD3 more? Also I've seen some people revert to season 1 pre b21 ender with 2 2 (demon backfist) to geta high splat on the wall into a CD1
Mainmanswe is Doing a wall ender which is almost purely based on luck to get the unscaled damage and is then going on by saying iF yoU hiT iT yoU gEt 105 DaMagE sO he iS stilL tOp 10 With a straight fucking face. Can’t take this guy serious no more
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever. It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
@@TheUnique69able "it's ok. Now all the character loyalists can.. oh wait .. but we still have Qudan... Ehh.. but we can still see Knee play Devil j... Nvm I was sick of seeing DVJ all the time anyways 🤡"
Isn't it fair to think that though? If you are talking about high level of play then it's not as unrealistic that someone hits that combo, it just takes practice and you'll get it after all, I guess. And if you're that good you probably have time to practice this combo ender's timing right? So I'd say his statement is fair, also he didn't say he's still top 10 because of the 105 smg combo but because he still has what made DvJ strong, his mixup is worse but it's still strong, his pokes are pretty good and are still there, plus he has EWGF which is arguably the strongest move in the game. Then again it's easier to look at just one part of the opinion and not consider the other parts, but you can't expect everyone to listen to the whole video right? If you still disagree then it's fine but try to listen a little bit more to other's opinion perhaps.
@@rhadvana yeah listen, none of the actual pro mishimas will agree with TMM on this. Knee already picked Feng over DVJ pre nerfs. And His DVJ is sick. Nobody of the top players who wants to win will pick DVJ anymore in tournaments.
@@YourTamedLion Yeah because DvJ is not as reliable as Feng in tournaments, you don't see Mishimas for that exact reason in tournaments, think logically but objectively dude, don't try to find reasons for DvJ to be dead, he's got all he needs, in fact he still has a stronf mixup at the wall, demon's paw wall splats after all and hellsweep does the damage it should do. So what's wrong with everyone crying because DvJ is weak? The only thing that got nerfed a lot is his mixup strenght and that's how it's supposed to be, if you wanna play mixup based play Kaz, end of story
Why is it always the pheggets who don't play the character and don't play in tournaments who are the most entitled on how others should feel about their characters? DJin don't even see competitive play anymore, and don't do too well online in casuals. In no metric did he deserve multiple nerfs in one patch. The only reason he got nerfed is that people like this bullied the devs into submission. 1. 2x ECD2 isn't a staple. Even knee doesn't use it because as you said before RELIABILITY > DAMAGE. 2. "Wraith kick should've never been in the game, b21 should never have been in the game"- who died and made you the authority in Tekken. The only thing you will see in this patch is more KAZUYA MACRO USERS, because he's a lot better now.
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever. It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
@@ByCooLOL if they said that they should take aways kazuya pewgf that shouldn't be in the Game thats too much damage, and yes Ik its hard to master but ayye anything goes at this point 🤷🏾 devil Jin isnt even a super fast character and can get beat out on a lot of trades, his best panic move is u/4 and even then it can be inconsistent he has to stay fsr away but best believe if he whiffs he has no go attacks that can bell him out of trouble, while kazuyas fd/3 reaches across the map.
shame he didn't get the time to shine in competitive play. Really wanted to see him in a grand finals and now its even more unlikely but oh well I'll still main him no matter what
Main man obviously D-riding Bandai as per usual. I'll give you a better Alternative and I'm not even a dvj main. If you're claiming and I can see that cdu/f+1 is 3 points higher than the b+2 1, then swap the nerfs to then nerf cdu/f+1. And instead of nerfing u/f+4's animations on hit, just add more recovering frames on block such as making it launch punishable even. OR nerf his ridiculous invisible hellsweep... honestly. Better alternatives I've just presented
Devil jin is like kazuya with mid pokes and safe mid options/crushers lol and ppl cry about kaz finally getting ws1+2 like that move made kazuya a neutral monster and place high in tourneys n on par with Feng or dlc characters.
Double electric into ff4 is not a staple Mainman, even korean pros don’t attempt that unless showboating because of inconsistency, so stop trying to misrepresent the damage DJ can do. And yeah good luck trying to make cd 1 your go to wall ender XD. DJ needed UF4 because he had no safe mid launcher like any other Mishima (regular Jin included), well now he has no threatening mids whatsoever. Yeah I’m a DJ main and thanks to Mainman’s salty and bad misrepresentation of this character, he’s nerfed to shit now. There’s a reason we never see DJ in tournaments even when everybody keeps calling him broken and top 5. Coz h’s not and never was, mainman was just salty that DJ was stronger than Kazuya and that’s the reason he kept crying for nerfs
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever. It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
I Play Lars. You are spoiled. A lot of chars don’t have a safe mid launcher. Mine doesn’t. You’re just mad that you have to play Tekken a little more like everybody else now.
@@c16621 only players who don’t play DJ say that DJ players are spoiled, go try that character against very good players and come back and tell me if it’s easy to win with that character. And btw, DJ didn’t have a safe mid launcher before this patch either, so your comment is kinda invalid
@@TheUnique69able true bro, people get so mad at DJ’s hellsweep, yeah it launches so what? It’s a defining characteristic of that character which can be dated back to Tekken 3.
Tbh, for a guy who mained jin and second main is dvj, the nerf's fine. Gives me tekken 6 dvj vibes. Good, but not so busted like in t7 season 4. The only difference is only uf4 not guaranteeing db2 anymore, easier combos, and a launching hellsweep lol
If devil jin was so busted you would see him in tournaments. This myth that devil jin is busted isnt backed up by stats. Execution is irrelevant if the character is really top 5. They have basically killed the only tournament viable mishima that wasnt even present in tournaments post qudans quitting.
@@faeylis You only say that because you only saw the popular tournaments, i suggest you look up ATL tournament (Where even Kkokoma uses dvj ruclips.net/video/b-0CcY8kexE/видео.html) and ICFC. And Look at tekken 6 tournaments, some people actually played some dvj, and devil jin is way less busted there. Only +2 hellsweep and only launch on ch, uf4 only guaranteeing db2 (No oki) that sometimes using b4 is more worth it as a mid option for oki, and To even reach the same combo dmg level that dvj in tekken 7 has, you need an insane execution because his staple combo is so hard. Play that version of dvj and you'll see how better you got it in tekken 7 than at the old times at tekken 6 days.
they should have made uf4 like in T5 DR, just make it have a guaranteed db2 because db2 u have to crouch down and is slow to recover unlike the standing b4
Oki is a situation where the opponent is knocked down and you have the advantage, so for example after you end a combo and the opponent is down, that is an oki situation. I hope that's clear enough
It's short for Okizeme which means something like "Wake Up Offense" so when you knock your opponent to the ground, you are in a state of advantage and having "good oki" would mean you have options which give you offensive coverage against them while they try to get up off the ground in various ways.
This video has aged like milk. DVJ is a shell of his former self. He's easily the worst Mishima and probably bottom 5. He has worse mids than Dragunov.
The real winners of this patch were Namco who sold these characters to diehards and professionals and nerfing them at the end where they can make even more dollars from the tournament 🤣
I've also noticed a really really sharp decline in people playing characters because they actually like the character and not because of their placement on a tier list. In the 90s and early 2000s people actually legitimately had mains. Seems like everybody born after then just bandwagons onto whichever character will give them the easiest free wins 🙄
I feel like this patch in general is very bad and boring. Also I feel like a good balance patch should always follow the rule "give and take", what I mean is that of they nerf some characters they should also give sth. In return that does buff it a little in a different way. For example if they nerfed DVJ b+2,1 they could give the laser cannon string a little bit more dmg. at the wall to compensate. Its not just DVJ but many other characters good just plain boring nerfs and nothing in return. Idk not a great path.
the cd1 wall ender is so difficult and inconsistent its literally pointless to even attempt it. 99% of the time you're losing damage trying to get more instead of doing what's guaranteed. Not worth the risk.
with my play group nobody cares about tiers thank god that being said I was so damn excited for geese when he was announced I got the game for him when he was nerfed in this patch I honestly didn't care at all I actually liked that I had to learn b3 + 2 after the counter it was cool Play the characters you enjoy playing You're playing a video game to have fun
@@witchblade8595no, is High tier, but the level needs now is more high by same version before the nerfs (example: if you want +100 dmg EWGF needs top execution, you want strong mid ws2 into wave dash, actual uf4 is uf2, but is High homming -5 on block)
Nerfing uf4 was dumb since his only legit 50 50 mid from wavedash was & still is ws2 which requires skilled execution and is unsafe on block. You can fuzzy guard and sidestep left his hellsweep, uf4 and ff2 out of his wavedash. Anyone who complained about uf4 or b2,1 has no idea how hard this character is to play. He needed those strong moves just like Kaz needs back his old Fujin Uraken (ws+1+2). Yall mishima haters need to git gud (kwiss for example)
Devil jin isnt meant to be a mix character. Hes about poking and controlling space. If you want to play dvj well, dont revolve your gameplay about hellsweep and mid but on moves like uf3, df12, df2, flash punch, ff4, ewgf, ws3, b4. I dont think this character is remotely hard compared to some of the hardest characters in the game and doesnt come close to the execution of the average character in games like +r, cf or melee. The issue here lies how easy and rewarding other top tiers are compared to him.
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever. It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
I love that he is hyping kazyua but I don't think kazuya is better. 1 reason that is pertinent to dj nerfs is that dj can still launch and carry you to the wall for good wall pressure but please correct me if I'm talking out of line. Plus dj has full grabs, better electric, easier execution better and panic moves while Kaz just has a better punish game in my opinion. (Isn't backed by any accolades). Sorry if I'm way off. Someone enlighten me (haven't faced a dj offline in a long time and I don't play Kaz.
@@Vognee bruh he still has a launching hellsweep, uf4 is a chunky safe mid, ff2 is a knockdown mid that's also safe ob. Then outside of mix-ups he still has one of the most insane neutral tools (electrics), has the best poking still amongst the Mishimas. Dont get me wrong getting nerfed is never fun, but it takes way more nerfs for a char like DJ to become bad.
@@Guil_P bruhhhhhhhhhh. Every single argument against dj is his launching hellsweep can't you think of something better. At this point dj no longer have mids. What uf4? oh shit plus +8 but with the death fist pushback which means completely useless. Ff2? It's steppable come on you should've know this by now. The only mid that's left is f1+2 and b4 both is slow and leaves you at disadvantage. At this point kazuya is the best mishima people just don't want to admit it. "Ohhh but he's hard and extremely linear" so is devil jin and kazuya has fucking mid homing move for days
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos. Right now his mids are too weak in comparison to his hellsweep. Ws2 is unsafe on block and doesnt even give a full combo. FF2 is slow and is extremely low damaging.
I just want a really good Devil Jin player to come on the tournament scene, an actual character specialist, because everyone plays this character exactly the same and it's so damn boring
@@SapSapirot I'm gonna say something that you're probably not going to like, there's nothing special about the way Qudans plays devil Jin, he's an amazing Tekken player who plays devil jin
Everyone plays the character but then qudans is the only person playing the character in tournaments. This myth of busted brain dead devil jin is not backed by stats.
Did they do anything to Marduk att all? He was my second main after Gigas and I was picking up zafina like a couple months ago but never really got to learn her learn her cause been working like crazy
With Qudans out of tekken now I don't see any Devil Jin main making it to tournaments now. But with these nerfs I am hopeful tier whores and win wanting people will be separated.
Damage was needed but uf4 could have just been reverted back to tag 2 where he gets uf4 into db2 with no loop. Now they have killed the only possibly viable mishima.
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos.
8 minutes of tmm talking without knowledge. He doesn't even show the best wall combo dj still has and incapable of understanding why these nerfs were too extreme.
I love how nothing changed between this video's time and today(Nov 2023) and how his opinions on DJ have drastically shifted just by seeing other top players putting him at bottom 5 level. Adrian went from DJ is still top 10 to trash character.
Claims, still OP open damage, with like 0 execution, proceeds to drop double electric into ff4 route, a 100 times. 'Still 30 damage wall ender', proceeds to drop the highly niche and terrible cd1 wall ender another few 100 times.
The only problem with UF4 is that it pushes the opponent so far away that the +8 is basically useless
It'd be better if it was +0 to +3 but leave the opponent close. Heck, maybe even -2. Namco are trying to do some weird kind of contrast and promote some kind of neutral game but doubt they're applying it to the whole cast. At times like this wish they'd express the direction of these patches
Agreed
@@kayceee6770 tekken died a long time ago. They sold us the original cast full priced smh
cry
exactly lol...they're a mile away, wtf does +8 do????
If you miss CD1 at the wall remember his follow up options.
Oh shit yeah CD1, 4
if you miss and they tech roll left, that's a huge whiff and not worth the risk
@@DemonSaine but if you predict the techroll, go into laser scraper
I still don’t think rendering a brand new move completely useless to the point that we’ll never see it again makes any sense. They didn’t need to delete the damage, they just needed to normalize it.
it's still good for oki and in the open
People actually bitched about 1 single move on a character when you got all these other ones with moronic dmg, mixups, and easy launchers lol
I found it more weird that they took away Devil Jins unscaled damage, but then looked at Marduks rage drive and thought "yeah this is fine"
You can't even use the excuse of "Marduk didn't get nerfed because he's DLC" considering a DLC character got hit the hardest this patch. Idk what the Fahk they were thinking.
@@MrMisfortune marduk's rd literally got nerfed in damage
@@LeiChaobruh just hopped in the training mode to check if you're right and it's still unscaled in combos, and still does 77 damage if you land it raw. So if it did get nerfed it was barely at all and they still didn't fix the big problem which was the lack of scaling
No matter how much buff or nerf, as a Devil Jin main, he's still just as cool since I started from Tekken 6.
Anyone who plays Devil Jin knows this video aged like milk.
Why ?
I would go so far as to say devil jin is low tier
@@DanteHikato 🗿 no way in hell
Facts
went back to this video, and now all the pros are saying hes low tier. or even bottom 5. aged like fine wine
Seeing Devil Jin without UpForwd 4 gives me a heart attack
The problem isn’t that DJ got nerfed, it’s that he got nerfed hard while Paul, Feng, Zafina, and Akuma didn’t when they needed it more, if you’re gonna nerf a character because he had broken moves then do that with everyone and make it fair, and you saying that wall combo made you hate the character, but literally everything Geese had that was broken still made you enjoy playing him tho? Like how lol
devil jin is unplayable now, how is that not the problem?
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos.
@@TheMidian46 unplayable LMAO new tekken players is a riot
@@faeylis top 5 character? yet how many players actually won tournaments with DVJ in the history of Tekken 7? oh yea only Qudans and Knee, name other players who had consistent success with dvj in tournament play
@@faeylisPreach.
The funniest thing about this :
After getting what 80% of the online Tekken community wanted, now Marduk is all of a sudden the next huge problem. Imo they should’ve just nerfed the damage of his b21 and given him a counter hit side Fall like old kazuya uraken. Still a powerful flow with b3 but reactable.
Instead and this is imo HUGE his enjoyment in tournaments grows for me now. One of a kind wall pressure/mix ups were my personal enjoyment with devil Jin because he’s so powerful on this and I’d love to see Qudans actively do this again.
Qudans is retired
Marduk doesn’t bother me half as much as DJ does. I just view fighting Marduk as Anti-Tackle Training.
@@c16621 marduk damage is braindead at least with dvj you gotta put in work for that damage.
even qudans doesn't play DVJ...only one person playing DVJ at the highest level was Knee but even he won't touch DVJ in this current balance
I hope in Tekken 8, power level heavily scales with execution and gameplan difficulty again. I would like to see all true Mishimas, Jin, Bryan, Steve, in top 10. The classic Tekken staples.
I mostly agree, but there are genuinely skilled players out there, fundamentals-wise, who may just prefer a simpler character for a given reason. I'd say a character's gameplan complexity and variety of mixups and tools should scale with execution and difficulty. So basically, a simple character could still be strong, but their gameplan would have to be comparatively straightforward and honest to match.
A character with tools like Leroy's should be an execution demon. Gimmicks, multipurpose moves, and super-unorthodox tools, if viable, should be more difficult to use. Just as a general rule.
@@ThatGuy-me8wb 100%
@@ThatGuy-me8wb I think it depends.
For sure more options should = more execution. Steve, DJ, Bryan, Jin, Lee, what Leory should be, etc. If you want lots of good options you should have to earn them.
But then also more simple characters with specific very strong top of their class level tools should also have high execution, to earn the use of those of those exceptionally strong tools: Kazuya, Heihatchi, Dragunov, Law, the difficulty Julia and Marduk should be to have tools that strong.
Now don't get me wrong we still absolutely need simple and easy characters for people with worse execution and people who want a simple gameplan. Easy characters to get into tekken and really learn the deeper parts of the game, for more casual players, etc.
But they don't deserve to be as strong or have as strong tools as the characters who have to execute their stuff. We absolutely should have Bob, Jack, Asuka, Lars. But they don't deserve to be in the same tier strength wise as a Mishima. Don't make them low tier or anything, make them playable, but for sure leave them a step down from the execution characters.
Mechanical skill is a part of the game and should be highly rewarding. Characters who do not require this skill don't deserve to be at the top in terms of strength.
The only exception I would make for this is if their gameplan is extremely deep and specific but not as execution heavy, but requiring more reads and specific move usage with many weaker tools rather than any super powerful tools. Yoshi, Lei, Feng, Xiaoyu, Leo etc. Even then I would leave them slightly weaker than the top tiers because at the end of the day they are still much more consistent because they don't need great execution, but they deserve to be stronger than the easy and non technical characters.
I think there is also an interesting niche for some characters like Paul where you could build them in such a way as to have a decently effective gameplan with low execution, but they have some strong tools that would unlock another power level once you have the execution. I would like to see Paul pushed more into this direction: more just frame stuff, difficult technical deathfist links, etc. Fahk could also go this way where his pokes and basic mixups are left easy but some specific armor break combos and stuff could be insanely hard so you could play easy and consistent or hard and much more powerful but in the same character.
@@Saskaruto16 By this logic there is absolutely nothing wrong with Akuma. Hardest execution in the game rewarded by being the best character with 1 hit death combos if you are good enough. He has ridiculously strong tools but again the hardest execution in the game.
This obviously shouldn't be how it works. Execution is 1 singular aspect of skill at the game. Players who have less execution can be far better players that have 10x the level of execution all characters should have execution requirements but basing the tier of a character around how hard there execution is is silly.
"Oh well Akuma is the hardest so well just give him ridiculous tools because why not you have to have execution to make full use of them!" Execution should be limited to combo damage you get more damage if you can execute the hard stuff there shouldn't be a direct correlation between tier and execution otherwise you are effectively punishing players who simply don't have as good of execution even if they are the better player.
@@jobo2243
So firstly I think you're taking a pretty bad faith version of my argument to build a strawman you could more easily knock down than arguing with what I actually said.
Execution should be a strong justification for not only combo damage, but other tools as well. If one character has to do a tight execution attack to use a tool in neutral, say like Dragunov WR2, it deserves to be stronger than a tool someone can access just by pressing F2.
However execution even at it's most difficult needs to have limits on the power it gives. I in no way said that Akuma was justified by his execution. However Akumas problems are more specific to him.
----
For instance:
Jab starter combos even at their strongest shouldn't give half life combos. It doesn't matter if it's an exceptionally difficult combo to do. Nothing justifies breaking the fundamentals of a game to such an egregious extent by giving a character such a broken tool.
Death combos as a concept I also find completely unjustified. It really doesn't matter whether it costs meter (which is largely the justification for the 2D fighters besides the execution). It's a fundamental flaw in modern Tekken that on many maps and stages, multiple characters can straight up take 80+ percent health or even death combo off of a single neutral win. While I think damage should very much scale based on execution, there has to be a maximum limit. If I had my way, between 50-60% would be the absolute highest damage the most technical demanding highest damage characters could pull off in single combo. Going beyond that removes incentive to play neutral over just turtling and looking for a launch/counterhit with ridiculous reward.
2D jump is near game breaking. The speed, the crushing, relative safety, and strong reward. It's the best parts of a hopkick and orbital all in one then made even stronger on top of it. Like I said, no matter how technical you want something to be, it still has to have maximum limits.
That's fundamentally the issue with Akuma, he breaks the limits that establish the fundamentals of Tekken, and not just in a single way that could make him a new and interesting character, but in so many ways that he is essentially playing a different game than everyone else and anyone who fights him is at a disadvantage because of it. None of those things have to do with his difficulty, these are all design decisions in his kit that break the game, they just tried to justify it through difficulty which didn't work.
-----
Execution is a large part of skill. If someone else has better execution, but you have stronger neutral but bad execution, you aren't the better player. Yes there are multiple factors that go into skill, but execution should be one of the most highly valued in terms of character strength, as it is the most inherent to the function of the character.
That's not saying you can't be a top player without having top level execution. As I said even the characters with less mechanical difficulty should be playable, but they need to have depth somewhere else like in the complexity of their gameplan.
But yes the more skills a character requires, the stronger they should be, in neutral, punish, and combos. Execution is the only aspect that can effect every single situation in Tekken, so it needs to be one of if not the most rewarding. If you have poor execution, or your character requires no execution, yeah you should be punished for that. If you're putting in the extra work to have to execute difficult things in every aspect of your gameplay, you deserve better tools to work with.
That's not going to stop a better player. If one player has better overall skill than another person, they will win. That's why Knee could play someone like Josie or Gigas and destroy any non-top player for free. But if JDCR is playing a character that requires execution for neutral, punish, and combos, and Knee is playing a character who requires no real execution, JDCR deserves better tools in his character in every aspect he has to execute on that Knee doesn't.
I don't think that's arguable. More work should = more reward. You don't want an easy pick up and play character to be strong because that doesn't reward skill. You need some of them for newer players to get into tekken, but that's all they should be for. Character strength should be determined by difficulty in gameplan and execution, skill, in the game.
Just listening to this guy ramble on about Tekken is soothing for me. Have a like bro.
I completely understand the wall bounce and b2.1 nerfs but why nerf UF4 that much you can just make it the way it was in season 3 and to be honest TMM i completely biased against dvj just because he is a kazuya main this review lacks an unbiased opinion to be honest….
TMM is certainly biased and isn't DJ main - his opinion is far from perfect for the matter
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos.
If you needed brain dead uf4 to win with your dvj was never good to begin with
Mainman:
DJ is fine he has 105 damage combo
Proceeds to miss highly situational combo over and over again
No wall damage and tremendous execution heavy DJ is pretty much dead: who wants to put so much work even in the favorite character to get bodied by lesser players over and over just because they use true top tier. You know the answer, because we all want to win
Can you explain his absence in tournaments, if he was so broken. I am pretty sure if a character is considered broken he will be consistently in top 8's of tournament. As we have seen people who win tekken 7 tournaments mostly use broken characters like akuma, stupid geese, leroy, julia, feng. But your so broken devil jin is no where to be found in tournaments.
Dear MainMan, this video is like an excuse to the main Devil Jin players for that hate from you before patch 5
My main character is Jin, but I feel bad for other players who have the main character DVJ
@@baatrsolne4ni I main both
Bro this dude just wants to get DV nerfed even more he is not even top 10 anymore hell maybe not even top 15
Never understood this anti DJ behaviour, the character is nowhere to be found in most big tournament top 8, one of the worst winrate online , and one of the most wellknown match up in the game (legacy character). At evo the first DJ was ranked 33...
Well that's just what typical Kazuya mains do
Tbh listening to tmm was mistake in the first place. He is casual. Casual lowkey rant about almost anything. Maybe wait for another dvj player like qudans(where the hell is this guy btw?) take Or just wait for knee take, the evo champ himself.
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever.
It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
tbh, I watched the video only to hear and laugh with his poor analysis of the char. At no time did I expect something positive from this because its clearly seen he's not DJ player. he just a Kaz enthusiast who only knows how to execute PEWGF, EWGF hellsweep and only dominates 2P side. Lets wait thoughts from a real pro DJ player :D
@@proudtobeadisliker9374 i wouldn't be surprised if Qudans finally puts the gloves down and basically is done with tekken
7:13 for crow imitation
HAHAHAHA
Bro I've been here for 30 minutes laughing like an idiot at that crow imitation LMAOO
Idk man I feel like these nerfs are too harsh when there is other characters roaming around nearly as broken and some even more broken and much much easier to use. Plus devil jin is literally the main character in the game shouldn't he be rewarded to be at least top 3?
They gave that to Jin Kazama instead.
+Pokes
+Launching sweep
+Launching mid
@@Anivrat1 ye agreed jin is completely busted he has insane damage on everything even his rage drive while devil jin does a full combo and gets like 60 damage unless it's an electric.
@@Anivrat1 devil jin doesn't even come close to top 10 imo. And let's not forget jin has a parry as well😂
6:13 that's not actually the max damage. The Max damage Is EWGF, Up laser into FF4 (3-4 more damage than the Double EWGF) which is easier than the Double EWGF but still hard because of the timing of FF4.
Both are very hard to do, and not available on anything other than 5 bar wired, or offline.
Not consistent on smalls tho
@@aKNeKr I don't think that's true cause I've faced no such problems, it's just that there's a timing to the FF4 that no one tells you and I had to figure out on my own and it's that you can't do it too fast or too slow you need to do a Deep dash and the FF4 will hit the air but still connect so if you get your hands set on that timing, man does it become easy but as Atlante pointed out it's super hard to get used to and Online it just ruins the timing and it's the reason why my DJ is still not at Omega I don't want to make myself get used to doing anything other than the Max damage.
I've only ever landed 2 ewgf and a ff4 once but ewgf into laser and ff4 i can do it consistently haha good to know i don't gotta torture myself anymore trying 2 ewgf into ff4
Yeah but ConManSwe lies to it’s audience by calling it a staple to misrepresent DJ’s damage, even korean pros don’t attempt double electric into ff4 in competitive play, and guess what? ConManSwe doesn’t either
Mainmain has always been jealous of Devil Jin/Jin as he favoured Kazuya. But the Nerf overall is really bad for Mishima in general as it makes the already difficult playstyle less attractive to regular players.
Yea he wanted vortex to be kaz exclusive
While I understand Devil Jin's nerfs were warranted, I really doubt if he's top 10 right now
Yeah i think characters that didn't get nerfed like paul, feng etc are probably better than dj now.
@@HeyMomonia Yep. Easy mode characters like Feng, Paul, Claudio, Marduk, and maybe even Negan or Jack-7 that are better off after the patch (since characters stronger than them were nerfed) means those characters will be stronger than Mishimas now.
@@pizzapizza6322 Yeah basically. I also believe julia is still top 10. Her nerfs weren't as significant as the other top tiers got.
uf4 should jsut not guarantee b4 like before. Now it's a useless move pretty much
@@HeyMomonia Not a crazy thing to say tbh. But I think dj might still be stronger than paul. Paul still tanks on the low department and dj still has hellsweep and db2.
He's not fine and this video is gonna age poorly. Just my opinion...Idk how half the cast with safe homing launching mids and yet Dvj was busted because of a guaranteed grounded hit. TMM shows a 40 dmg hellsweep combo...bro it does 38 damage raw. 2 extra damage for the combo and no oki like Kaz gets from his hellsweep. I mean you risk FULL LAUNCH COMBO and your reward is 40 dmg?? Pathetic. I could go on but yah, he's got one of the worst rage drives too. Kaz has one of the best. This is never mentioned.
I agree, DVJ rage drive is underwhelming.
Only useful in the neutral.
They should give him a new one in 8.
But that's how it's supposed to be, he's not supposed to have a strong mixup, he already has strong enough poking and space control, plus he has EWGF
TMM is hopelessly lost when talking about those two characters and he has been that way all of t7.
And then he acts surprised when much better players see those two and even their matchup against each other completely differently ( like the saudi Kaz).
He is just way off on that one specific topic because of his Kaz bias 🤷
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos.
Gotta agree with you there mate
"i'M a fENgWeI pLAyeR nOW" LOLLLL
as a devil jin player im still stickin to him
Really wish they would buff the low tiers and stop the damn nerfs. especially on high execution characters that are barely seen in tourney. smdh.
Devi’ jin died the moment they nerfed his uf4. I never cared about his wall ender
Exactly
Not to worry devil jin bros, they'll make him top 5 again in tekken 8 lmao
In like 12 years XD
If anyone buys that. There wasnt really any hype from that tekken 8 teaser. Sf6 blew up tho
@@SoraX66z this aged poorly😂😂
@@SoraX66zThis aged like raw milk 💀
I’m from the future playing tekken 8 in April 2024. Devil Jin is still shit, and the bias against him from the community and the developers is as strong as ever.
“Play as someone you like regardless if they get buffed or nerf” me with my always B tier hwoarang
lmfao so real. hwa, dj and noctis will forever be in my heart
That Dusk OST be going crazy 👌
TMM spent almost 5 mins trying to showcase a "ungodly amount of dmg" of a combo in practice mode and only pulled it off once, yet complains about the damage. TMM is delusional if he thinks DJ is still top 10
Have you seen his newer tier list? He retracted his statement and changed his heart after using him more after this video. He’s not even top 10 or 20 from the video he currently made due to his neutered damage and the removal of uf4 knockdown.
@@Kazybara obviously not if I posted this comment.
@@stripedzebrasafari Go watch "The final character tierlist" and "I was wrong about the Mishimas"
@@Kazybara can’t find it. How long ago was this video?
@@stripedzebrasafari final tierlist was two months ago and the “I was wrong about Mishimas” was 5 months ago
But you get launched if the hell sweep is blocked. Uf4 Nerf can't be understated
yep, and that's the main dvj weakness: no reliable and safe mid launchers. in other hand is a wellrounded character and before patch 5.0 he had a god like 50/50, so there was literally no reason to prefer kaz over dvj. Now this pg is finally well balanced, and i'm sating that while i'm a dvj main ( bad dvj but,he's funny to play xD)
This is not fun to hear that DJin didn't need the only power mid in his arsenal when Kazuya is overtuned and absurdly dumbed down.
Well, at least BNamco could buff DJin's b4 like Kazuya's so that move wouldn't miss on grounded opponent at straight axis knockdown.
FF2 is also a power mid wtf. Sorry the character can't be perfect like every other reasonable character in this game
Steel pedal and demon paw are as strong as ever. Him having b4, df1, launching hs, tracking ws2, u4 alongside plenty other good panic options, ff4, easy mode 15f launcher, farther reaching ewgf and flashpunch is enough to outclass both hei and kazuya. Uf4 still remains a safe low crushing power mid. Uf3 isnt bad either
Now I am terrible at using kazuyas hellsweep but a 36 damage 18f if executed perfectly power low with no evasion and weak tracking that risks 70 damage and mids that quickly lose his momentum arent enough to make him comparable to dvj, who is also still far easier and reliable
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever.
It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
@@RisingPhoenix05 Huh? If Dvj ff2 is power mid than what is Ff3 and f4 with Kaz?? Ultra Mega Super Saiyan Mids?
Ff2 is just a regular ass move man, 24 damage no ch no combo get real.
@@Tartersauce101 also slow and easily steppable, -8 on block and doesn’t give any advantage on hit. Just a knockdown and back to neutral
TheMailManSWE always delivers, and he handles with care.
Now TMM, put your money where your mouth is and play/use only Devil Jin in tournaments and online.
If DJ doesn't deserve the 50-50, why Bryan has the 50-50. You twerk too much for your favs
Good point
The thing they should have done is to make so the UF4 leaves the opponent closer you DJ can actually use the advantage. Now it feels like a relatively useless move unless you have a hard read on crushing a low.
If you have hard read a crushing low u4 for much more damage, uf4 is useless now
@Harri Kirvesniemi You can't judge a move by what you don't lose - you judge it by risk reward.
What you get for landing it: piss poor damage and reset to neutral.
What you lose by getting it blocked - you lose your turn and initiative.
What you lose by getting it sidestepped - a chunk of you life, turn and initiative/knockdown.
Not worth it for anyone who knows what risk reward is
@Harri Kirvesniemi With that push back it's basically good as neutral.
@Harri Kirvesniemi do you even understand what neutral means? It means no advantage and disadvantage for both players. So basically there's no reward for doing that move anymore. Tbh kazuya players still won't accept the fact that kazuya is the best mishima now
@Harri Kirvesniemi Only at the wall - which is situational. In neutral pushback resets everything to zero plus frames. But you have a point - there is a fraction of usability to the move close to the wall, which still doesn't change anything described above - DJ got nerfed hard without anything in return.
5:25
Isn't Akuma rewarded for doing something that takes a lot of skill too?
Yes, but Akuma can kill you of a jab. That shouldn't be a thing
LOL I was saying "careful Mainman.... some might see that as a defense in Akuma's favor for being able to do what he does." Btw I do agree he should be rewarded for doing something hard. In that vein they should revert the ex tatsu buffs, he never needed them and it didn't help his online win rate much anyway because Akuma's best features are not his death combos (contrary to popular belief).
he's rewarded quite a bit too much. it doesn't matter what character you are or how good you are, no character should be able to get 80-90% damage from a single combo
@@DemonSaine ahhh the old "no character should be able to do 80%+ combo damage from 1 combo."
Honestly if it were easy to do his combos I might agree with you. Thing is dropping those combos can cost you big (cost you the match) and they are harder to do than just about anything else.
I will say that they never should made the ex tatsu changes. Those combo routes should not exist. I will agree that doing that much damage via ex tatsu is too much.
Also I think Akuma definitely shouldn't have 10f launchers because that goes beyond doing too much damage, that is punishing you severely for so much as breathing wrong.
Akuma definitely needs nerfs, but combo damage ain't one of them.
@@xXJM01Xx so how would you nerf him?
This helped me learn a lot of new things about DJ \o I just picked up the game, ty
1:07 says it all. A combo, that MainMan dropped the first time by the way, with all of that execution required for only 40 damage. Meanwhile take Hwoarang for example, who can quite literally only press 4 a few times and get 57 damage. A 57 damage string by pressing ONE BUTTON. How on earth does that make any sense
1 yr later nobody is playing dj….but guess what he is coming back in tekken 8😂😂
Is he really?,😭 dj main here lol
If the leak was true….which it has proven to be so far
hes back
@@yellow861 yeah and looks great
People saying uf4 being nerfed kills DJ just goes to show they only used uf4 and hellsweep and don't know any other move on his movelist
The character literally has only 5 useable moves
@@TheUnique69able he's basically saying to hit him with less dmg outpout moves so he can manage to keep up with the pressure of one the most punishable moves if blocked
It's because the same thing happened to Kazumi Namco basically fucked her moves to the point where even Arslan don't wanna touch the Character anymore
I'm struggling to figure out what the basis for some of these nerfs are. DJ has one of the lowest win rates online and is practically unseen in top level play. So if he's not doing well at the casual level or tournament level, why nerf him?
because of all the crying, I am still using it. I backed up both Jin and Devil Jin and now i can use them in the new patch.
Because clowns like Mainman want his precious Kazuya to be the strongest Mishima and keeps crying for DJ nerfs
DvJ was too all round, and too good at that, he has good pokes, he has a strong mixup and he has also a lot of dmg and he has EWGF which is one of the strongest moves in the game. So the basis for the nerfs are that his mixup was too strong, if you're an all round character like he is you shouldn't have such a strong mixup, hellsweep launched and if you were near the wall you'd get demolished by his ultra damaging wall combo and that took no effort. So that's the reasong for the nerfs at his mixup, it didn't align with the character's idea of been able to do everything but in a weaker way if confronted to other Mishimas. Also remember, DvJ is one of the hardest chars to play, even before nerfs so it shouldn't surprise you that he has a low win rate online, but at high level play he was insanely strong because once you get over the difficulties that come from playing a Mishima (not many panic moves, relying mostly on timing and the execution barrier he and all the Mishimas have) what you had was a pretty much perfect character, you had one of the strongest mixup, still has incredible space control and reliable punishes and the most damaging combo in the game which is super easy to do. He's not used much in tournaments because he in fact is the most reliable choice between the Mishimas, it's just that there are better choices and they are not as execution heavy. I hope you now understand why he got nerfed this much. And (referring to the other comment) not because ppl want their character to be better, it's not like Mainman is the only one that said he was broken lol.
@@rhadvana The low win rate online makes sense because of the high execution barrier; but if he had the potential to be the "perfect" character, why is he almost never used in tournaments? Why did they nerf DJ but not Akuma, who is clearly more of an issue?
Why bother nerfing DJ but not characters like Feng, Marduk, Zafina, and Julia? If the execution barrier is so high that even the best players in the world can't crack it then why bother at all?
@@formless_dev Because tournament play is a different setting, you see since Mishimas in general are good in deathmatches and not in best of 3 or best of 5 mostly because there are better options that are not as execution heavy, Lidia is one example, Geese is another, Akuma is on a league of his own I guess, but I don't know why they didn't nerf him, and actually I don't know if they changed something about him in this patch. The other argument you can make is the execution is correlated to nerves during a tournament, ofc you're more likely to not use an optimal punish or like launch punish something because there's the stress involving the match. The fact remains that DvJ was overtuned because of his strong mixup which he shouldn't have had in the first place, you see he had uf4 plus the b4 follow up and launching hellsweep that wasn't 40 dmg only if you were near a wall or even midscreen in some stages you could take it to 50/60 dmg with b2,1 which was the strongest wall combo ender in the game. But the mixup "god" between the Mishimas should be Kazuya, in fact he specializes in that, but it was okay for DvJ up until now to have a stronger mixup when he can also do great pokes and space control right? So the only reason you'd pick another Mishima is because of design difference. As for why not nerf Akuma idk dude haha. I feel like Akuma is execution heavy in terms of combos and not in terms of choosing a punishment move. Ofc it's not like for this reason you can't feel the stress of a match or somethinf like that, I don't mean this but I guess he's that strong that many people picked him up I guess and he's worth the effort, both are hard to play but I guess the reward Akuma gives you is infinitely better. So that's why you see more Akuma than DvJ I think, but I don't really know Akuma as character, I just know that he can do saucy stuff, so this argument may not be difficult to disassemble haha, as for why not nerf those chars you mentioned, I'm gonna be honest with you I have no fucking idea haaha, the balancing of this game was all over the place after all, but I know for sure that this DvJ nerf is a good choice
“Up forward foe” 😂
Coming from 2024 and tekken 8. Devil jin is bottom 3 and i miss when he was a menace like this. He hasn’t recovered from these nerfs
One day bro
Look what they did to my beautiful boy... those monsters.
TMM with Feng: he still a HUGE poblem, since knee won with him even, before he wasn't a poblem
TMM with DJ: Don't worry he still fine, heelsweep launcher which you can't backdash hard to ss because of wavu, tracking mid launcher only -12, tracking electric impossible to launch punish, u4 fucks off most of your movelist and is tricky to punish with most character. No no this is not broken, Feng is the poblem. And you din'dt even do a video on Jin, he is not hard, he literally has everything, and everything is good apart for jab range, half movelist tracks ssr, other half ssl, f4 range ch launcher, homing, electric, hellsweep launcher same as DJ.
he did say that Jin is now likely the strongest mishima.
@@aFutureSelf The fact that DJ is stronger than Kaz and Hei dosen't matter with what he said
You want some cheese with that whine?
Jin not hard are you high? He has the lowest winrate online the majority of pros don't even play him because of his difficulty why do you think knee chose feng instead of jin which he can play we saw this in season 2 knee play jin once and never play him again.
Ewww i bet you're a feng main 🤢
Feng has an unseeable launching "hellsweep" too. Dumbass. Feng is also 100x easier to play.
What is the song in the beginning of this video? It plays so often in TMMs vids but I can’t find the name
Chloe got some good buffs
he is a bottom 15 character now, truly a terrible nerf!!!!!
No way he is still a complete character even without uf4. We was already OP to begin with.
Kek
I cant tell if this is a joke or not.
@@AchillesxHeal r/woooosh
@@CrowBag what do you think
Honestly I'm happy about this as a devil jin main bc now I can actually get compliments for reaching a high rank with him or beating someone in a set with him and most importantly stopping the hate on him bc I think he's pretty cool and kazuya as well both are my mains.
He’s still insanely strong tho
the only issue i have now is his wall combo damage, its way too weak now
1,2 into b4 give decent wall damage but you gotta dash in now once the opponent hits the wall.
@@lolo6089 yeah i dont understand the dev team, my issue with devil jin was just that launching hell sweep, if they just removed the launching property, i think the problem of the whole character was (almost?) solved! instead they nerf almost every facet of the character, they basically go either overkill or nothing, what are they thinking? and i'm still waiting for the marduk cancer and feng nerfs
@@lolo6089 hell nah that's the weakest wall ender in the game, I opt for laser scraper for consistent combos
Sometimes use df3,2,4 fly 3 at low slump depending on distance from wall, it's super high in damage
And cd1 rarely
Devil Jin had no tournament presence, what’s the point in nerfing a character that doesn’t even exist in competitive play?
Just because he isnt suited for or isnt played at tournaments DOESNT mean he isnt an overturned character. He excelled and was oppressive in every type of set except for tournaments. By this logic, should Chloe receive nerfs because of the emergence of Kaizur, and should Marduk have received buffs?
That stupid wall combo was OP even online. But I do agree that uf4 should knockdown but farther so there is no follow up
@@Wingnut202 what does suited for tournament even mean? Shouldn’t all the characters in the game have a similar prospect of doing well in competitive play? Why is such an extremely difficult character that even the best players in the world struggle to win a game with get nerfed like that?
Agree , furthermore DJ is one of the lowest winrate online, one of most wellknown match up (legacy character) and quite difficult to master. You nerf a character who wins the most match at any level. Thats not the case with DJ
@@Wingnut202 Excelled and was oppressive in every type of set except tournaments? Why isn’t his online win rate high then?
What’s the music in the background of this video? Sounds like boss music
You created propaganda against DJ just to get us here? And now an apology video..
Happy I played Feng Wei since the beginning.
There was no need to nerf devil jim. The poor dude. He hasn't been represented in tournaments for years.
exactly, the only person who regularly used him in tournaments, at the highest level was Knee....but so many people putting him at S tier, but just how many devil jins won tournaments outside of Qudans and Knee in the history of Tekken 7? even in Korea people didn't play DVJ in tournaments much at all, and mishimas have always been popular in korea
@@bludika im starting to that it was done to protect poor online noobs. What do you think bro?
@@hospitalcleaner yea probably lol...because to counter against Mishimas is actually not just guessing 50/50 all day, but using movement to reduce being forced to guess low or mid all day, but obviously, lower to mid level rank players don't know how to sidestep, so all they do is try to guess all the 50/50, which is not the best way to fight against mishimas, gotta SSL and SWL against them along with blocking etc
@@bludika so what ? Everyone puts Akuma as the best character in the game, yet how many Akumas have we seen win tournaments in the last couple months ? Devil Jin isn’t played a lot because he requires some tough execution, which makes him inconsistent, which is why tournament players will rather play Paul,Geese,Feng or Zafina since they are wayyyy more consistent. That doesn’t change the fact that the character is strong.
@@frantschou2369 okay, What does having an Akuma winner in the last couple months have to do with anything? lmao you think Akuma wasn't strong since day 1 and only just recently? wtf you trying to say lol? Atiff Buff did win the TWT back in februrary btw... but overall, over the life span of Tekken 7, you know how many time an Akuma won high level tournaments? many times by many different players.
Strong my ars! They completely destroyed devil Jin. Tekken developers surely knows how to turn fans away from the game.
@Baby gimme Feet But CD 2 is so hard to land that I don't think most people would be using that. If you do it too early, CD2 only does 10 damage. If you do it too late, it would whiff. You need to land it in a very narrow window to get the full 30 damage.
With UF4's prior purpose axed, do you think people will utilized CD3 more?
Also I've seen some people revert to season 1 pre b21 ender with 2 2 (demon backfist) to geta high splat on the wall into a CD1
CD3 is very linear so it's risky against good players with good movement
@@bludika its not that it's linear it's that it's reactable
Mainmanswe is Doing a wall ender which is almost purely based on luck to get the unscaled damage and is then going on by saying iF yoU hiT iT yoU gEt 105 DaMagE sO he iS stilL tOp 10
With a straight fucking face. Can’t take this guy serious no more
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever.
It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
@@TheUnique69able "it's ok. Now all the character loyalists can.. oh wait .. but we still have Qudan... Ehh.. but we can still see Knee play Devil j... Nvm
I was sick of seeing DVJ all the time anyways 🤡"
Isn't it fair to think that though? If you are talking about high level of play then it's not as unrealistic that someone hits that combo, it just takes practice and you'll get it after all, I guess. And if you're that good you probably have time to practice this combo ender's timing right? So I'd say his statement is fair, also he didn't say he's still top 10 because of the 105 smg combo but because he still has what made DvJ strong, his mixup is worse but it's still strong, his pokes are pretty good and are still there, plus he has EWGF which is arguably the strongest move in the game. Then again it's easier to look at just one part of the opinion and not consider the other parts, but you can't expect everyone to listen to the whole video right? If you still disagree then it's fine but try to listen a little bit more to other's opinion perhaps.
@@rhadvana yeah listen, none of the actual pro mishimas will agree with TMM on this.
Knee already picked Feng over DVJ pre nerfs. And His DVJ is sick. Nobody of the top players who wants to win will pick DVJ anymore in tournaments.
@@YourTamedLion Yeah because DvJ is not as reliable as Feng in tournaments, you don't see Mishimas for that exact reason in tournaments, think logically but objectively dude, don't try to find reasons for DvJ to be dead, he's got all he needs, in fact he still has a stronf mixup at the wall, demon's paw wall splats after all and hellsweep does the damage it should do. So what's wrong with everyone crying because DvJ is weak? The only thing that got nerfed a lot is his mixup strenght and that's how it's supposed to be, if you wanna play mixup based play Kaz, end of story
Why is it always the pheggets who don't play the character and don't play in tournaments who are the most entitled on how others should feel about their characters? DJin don't even see competitive play anymore, and don't do too well online in casuals. In no metric did he deserve multiple nerfs in one patch. The only reason he got nerfed is that people like this bullied the devs into submission.
1. 2x ECD2 isn't a staple. Even knee doesn't use it because as you said before RELIABILITY > DAMAGE.
2. "Wraith kick should've never been in the game, b21 should never have been in the game"- who died and made you the authority in Tekken.
The only thing you will see in this patch is more KAZUYA MACRO USERS, because he's a lot better now.
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever.
It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
Keep crying, he deserved the nerfs.
cry about it
The crazy thing they said they gonna make his electric worse too.
@@ByCooLOL if they said that they should take aways kazuya pewgf that shouldn't be in the Game thats too much damage, and yes Ik its hard to master but ayye anything goes at this point 🤷🏾 devil Jin isnt even a super fast character and can get beat out on a lot of trades, his best panic move is u/4 and even then it can be inconsistent he has to stay fsr away but best believe if he whiffs he has no go attacks that can bell him out of trouble, while kazuyas fd/3 reaches across the map.
shame he didn't get the time to shine in competitive play. Really wanted to see him in a grand finals and now its even more unlikely but oh well I'll still main him no matter what
At the wall when they get up u can do unblockable CD1
Main man obviously D-riding Bandai as per usual. I'll give you a better Alternative and I'm not even a dvj main. If you're claiming and I can see that cdu/f+1 is 3 points higher than the b+2 1, then swap the nerfs to then nerf cdu/f+1. And instead of nerfing u/f+4's animations on hit, just add more recovering frames on block such as making it launch punishable even. OR nerf his ridiculous invisible hellsweep... honestly. Better alternatives I've just presented
He wasn't fine boys, character moved to trash unplayable tier
Devil jin is like kazuya with mid pokes and safe mid options/crushers lol and ppl cry about kaz finally getting ws1+2 like that move made kazuya a neutral monster and place high in tourneys n on par with Feng or dlc characters.
Aged like milk
Double electric into ff4 is not a staple Mainman, even korean pros don’t attempt that unless showboating because of inconsistency, so stop trying to misrepresent the damage DJ can do. And yeah good luck trying to make cd 1 your go to wall ender XD. DJ needed UF4 because he had no safe mid launcher like any other Mishima (regular Jin included), well now he has no threatening mids whatsoever. Yeah I’m a DJ main and thanks to Mainman’s salty and bad misrepresentation of this character, he’s nerfed to shit now. There’s a reason we never see DJ in tournaments even when everybody keeps calling him broken and top 5. Coz h’s not and never was, mainman was just salty that DJ was stronger than Kazuya and that’s the reason he kept crying for nerfs
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever.
It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
I Play Lars. You are spoiled. A lot of chars don’t have a safe mid launcher. Mine doesn’t. You’re just mad that you have to play Tekken a little more like everybody else now.
@@c16621 only players who don’t play DJ say that DJ players are spoiled, go try that character against very good players and come back and tell me if it’s easy to win with that character. And btw, DJ didn’t have a safe mid launcher before this patch either, so your comment is kinda invalid
@@TheUnique69able true bro, people get so mad at DJ’s hellsweep, yeah it launches so what? It’s a defining characteristic of that character which can be dated back to Tekken 3.
@@wander_plug1369 DJ is still miles better than Lars :>))
Tbh, for a guy who mained jin and second main is dvj, the nerf's fine. Gives me tekken 6 dvj vibes. Good, but not so busted like in t7 season 4. The only difference is only uf4 not guaranteeing db2 anymore, easier combos, and a launching hellsweep lol
If devil jin was so busted you would see him in tournaments. This myth that devil jin is busted isnt backed up by stats. Execution is irrelevant if the character is really top 5. They have basically killed the only tournament viable mishima that wasnt even present in tournaments post qudans quitting.
@@faeylis You only say that because you only saw the popular tournaments, i suggest you look up ATL tournament (Where even Kkokoma uses dvj ruclips.net/video/b-0CcY8kexE/видео.html) and ICFC. And Look at tekken 6 tournaments, some people actually played some dvj, and devil jin is way less busted there. Only +2 hellsweep and only launch on ch, uf4 only guaranteeing db2 (No oki) that sometimes using b4 is more worth it as a mid option for oki, and To even reach the same combo dmg level that dvj in tekken 7 has, you need an insane execution because his staple combo is so hard. Play that version of dvj and you'll see how better you got it in tekken 7 than at the old times at tekken 6 days.
Thanks!!!!!!! Yeah i think DJ is still good too..
they should have made uf4 like in T5 DR, just make it have a guaranteed db2 because db2 u have to crouch down and is slow to recover unlike the standing b4
what is "oki"? i hear you say it almost everytime, but not a single time i have been able to undestand it by context
Oki is a situation where the opponent is knocked down and you have the advantage, so for example after you end a combo and the opponent is down, that is an oki situation. I hope that's clear enough
Check out peterymo oki guide
It's short for Okizeme which means something like "Wake Up Offense" so when you knock your opponent to the ground, you are in a state of advantage and having "good oki" would mean you have options which give you offensive coverage against them while they try to get up off the ground in various ways.
This video has aged like milk. DVJ is a shell of his former self. He's easily the worst Mishima and probably bottom 5. He has worse mids than Dragunov.
So what is Up-Back 4 used for now?
Wall pressure I guess? It does have the new animation on the wall after all so...
It’s going to be added to the 60 other completely useless moves devil Jin has
This comment section is DJ mains support group.
The real winners of this patch were Namco who sold these characters to diehards and professionals and nerfing them at the end where they can make even more dollars from the tournament 🤣
Except dj is not a dlc
@@kemalerdemsahin410 Because fuck dj apparently lmao.
@@kemalerdemsahin410 Exactly
@@kemalerdemsahin410 Not yet at least
Jin the goat Mishima now
"I'm still strong." said Devil Jin without one of his teeth
I've also noticed a really really sharp decline in people playing characters because they actually like the character and not because of their placement on a tier list.
In the 90s and early 2000s people actually legitimately had mains. Seems like everybody born after then just bandwagons onto whichever character will give them the easiest free wins 🙄
There also weren't people influencing people's decisions like crazy back then when it came to this stuff.
I feel like this patch in general is very bad and boring. Also I feel like a good balance patch should always follow the rule "give and take", what I mean is that of they nerf some characters they should also give sth. In return that does buff it a little in a different way. For example if they nerfed DVJ b+2,1 they could give the laser cannon string a little bit more dmg. at the wall to compensate. Its not just DVJ but many other characters good just plain boring nerfs and nothing in return. Idk not a great path.
i think the wall combo nerf was fine, but UF4 nerf was just way too unnecessary
the cd1 wall ender is so difficult and inconsistent its literally pointless to even attempt it. 99% of the time you're losing damage trying to get more instead of doing what's guaranteed. Not worth the risk.
with my play group
nobody cares about tiers
thank god
that being said
I was so damn excited for geese when he was announced
I got the game for him
when he was nerfed in this patch
I honestly didn't care at all
I actually liked that I had to learn b3 + 2 after the counter
it was cool
Play the characters you enjoy playing
You're playing a video game to have fun
Why is it formatted like a poem?
@@JakeFLM I kinda just type like that
unless I'm writing a paper or something
Ridiculous nerfs, just nerf the demage, stupid Namco.
After 9 months, this version of devil Jin is the best in Tekken
Is it? Did he get a buff?
@@mishimaplayz nerf but not braindead
And in the same tier with bears.... Best version huh?
@@witchblade8595no, is High tier, but the level needs now is more high by same version before the nerfs (example: if you want +100 dmg EWGF needs top execution, you want strong mid ws2 into wave dash, actual uf4 is uf2, but is High homming -5 on block)
They nerfed my boi too hard im a
Feng Wei player now
:Nerfs Feng
Yeah, nurf him so bad I switch to law. He's not the fastest thing. DLCs are so fast they poke him to death all day.
Nerfing uf4 was dumb since his only legit 50 50 mid from wavedash was & still is ws2 which requires skilled execution and is unsafe on block. You can fuzzy guard and sidestep left his hellsweep, uf4 and ff2 out of his wavedash. Anyone who complained about uf4 or b2,1 has no idea how hard this character is to play. He needed those strong moves just like Kaz needs back his old Fujin Uraken (ws+1+2). Yall mishima haters need to git gud (kwiss for example)
Nah.
🧢
True he feels so weak now
Devil jin isnt meant to be a mix character. Hes about poking and controlling space. If you want to play dvj well, dont revolve your gameplay about hellsweep and mid but on moves like uf3, df12, df2, flash punch, ff4, ewgf, ws3, b4.
I dont think this character is remotely hard compared to some of the hardest characters in the game and doesnt come close to the execution of the average character in games like +r, cf or melee. The issue here lies how easy and rewarding other top tiers are compared to him.
Exactly 👏🏼👏🏼. It’s the mob hive mind mentality of the tekken community who bitch and moan about a character that has no tournament presence whatsoever.
It’s just plain hate mongering because devil Jin has a hellsweep and their characters don’t, completely unaware that the character is deeply flawed especially in high level.
I love that he is hyping kazyua but I don't think kazuya is better. 1 reason that is pertinent to dj nerfs is that dj can still launch and carry you to the wall for good wall pressure but please correct me if I'm talking out of line. Plus dj has full grabs, better electric, easier execution better and panic moves while Kaz just has a better punish game in my opinion. (Isn't backed by any accolades). Sorry if I'm way off. Someone enlighten me (haven't faced a dj offline in a long time and I don't play Kaz.
I think making his 50/50 worse while removing the wall combo is completely fair, it's not like the options that remain are useless.
Not useless does not equates to good and numbers show, for example puny wall damage (which you can do consistently) is laughable
@@Vognee bruh he still has a launching hellsweep, uf4 is a chunky safe mid, ff2 is a knockdown mid that's also safe ob.
Then outside of mix-ups he still has one of the most insane neutral tools (electrics), has the best poking still amongst the Mishimas.
Dont get me wrong getting nerfed is never fun, but it takes way more nerfs for a char like DJ to become bad.
@@Guil_P bruhhhhhhhhhh. Every single argument against dj is his launching hellsweep can't you think of something better. At this point dj no longer have mids. What uf4? oh shit plus +8 but with the death fist pushback which means completely useless. Ff2? It's steppable come on you should've know this by now. The only mid that's left is f1+2 and b4 both is slow and leaves you at disadvantage. At this point kazuya is the best mishima people just don't want to admit it. "Ohhh but he's hard and extremely linear" so is devil jin and kazuya has fucking mid homing move for days
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos. Right now his mids are too weak in comparison to his hellsweep. Ws2 is unsafe on block and doesnt even give a full combo. FF2 is slow and is extremely low damaging.
I just want a really good Devil Jin player to come on the tournament scene, an actual character specialist, because everyone plays this character exactly the same and it's so damn boring
cough cough Qudans
@@SapSapirot I'm gonna say something that you're probably not going to like, there's nothing special about the way Qudans plays devil Jin, he's an amazing Tekken player who plays devil jin
@@SapSapirot qudans is washed everytime he attends tournaments he got wrecked cope harder
Everyone plays the character but then qudans is the only person playing the character in tournaments. This myth of busted brain dead devil jin is not backed by stats.
@@faeylis at all but at the end of the day we devil jin mains have to keep at it and get our just dew respect
what’s the background music?
Did they do anything to Marduk att all? He was my second main after Gigas and I was picking up zafina like a couple months ago but never really got to learn her learn her cause been working like crazy
So... When's the updated tier list dropping?
With Qudans out of tekken now
I don't see any Devil Jin main making it to tournaments now.
But with these nerfs I am hopeful tier whores and win wanting people will be separated.
People like big numbers and with puny damage which DJ can do consistently the work does not worth
Any tips on hellsweep to ewgf?
What is that move "up fo for" :D
I’m sticking to my mains despite the nurfs and buffs
My mains are bryan and feng ELELELELELELELELELELELELELELEL
F the devs, nerfed him too much. Some nerfs were def needed but they massacred him
Damage was needed but uf4 could have just been reverted back to tag 2 where he gets uf4 into db2 with no loop. Now they have killed the only possibly viable mishima.
Having one of the most difficult characters in the game being nerfed to top 20 totally worth playing..72 dmg with electric just wow
Lee players are crying in the corner
The biggest lie was that Devil jin was a top 5 character. If DVJ was a top 5 character you would see him in tournaments but you never did after qudans quit. Not even in top 32's consistently because he was a top 10 character at best. Devil jin has long been power crept by dlc characters after season 2. Nah namco has killed the only possible tournament viable mishima because of twitter posts and themainman videos.
@@faeylis Using that logic I wonder how there wasn't a single Akuma in top 16 at evo
@@kristianbojinov6715 you consistently see akumas in tournaments all the time lets not pretend
@@faeylis How many akumas did you see in evo? I think that's a fair thing to judge on since its the latest offline tournament
8 minutes of tmm talking without knowledge. He doesn't even show the best wall combo dj still has and incapable of understanding why these nerfs were too extreme.
Can you review the whole top 8 of evo?