I visited that area about three years ago. I was stunned at how rural it still is. It was a real testimony builder to be there in person. Thanks for posting this video!
I didn’t realize Emma and Joseph went to live right down the street from her parents. Thank you so much for the series! Please keep it going. We love it. You’re changing lives!
Generally nice video. A couple of comments: The shot at 12:45 of the translation fudges the historical accounts by showing both a hat (presumably with the treasure-digging scrying stone in it) and the plates, with Joseph looking back and forth between them. Showing the plates is an improvement over depictions of Joseph only looking in the hat at the scrying stone, but the portrayal still falls short of Joseph and Oliver's published accounts, which state that the translation came from the plates using the Nephite interpreters which came with the plates (sometimes called the Urim & Thummim), with neither ever referring the use of a hat or the scrying stone. We need a depiction which is true to Joseph and Oliver's accounts of Joseph looking at the plates through the interpreters. (The stone-in-the-hat accounts come from very problematic secondhand sources.) On Oliver's death, another inspiring point is that David Whitmer reported that Oliver exhorted him to always continue testifying of the Book of Mormon, which David did even though he (David) felt Joseph became a fallen prophet, and thus also had incentive to deny his testimony as another of the Three Witnesses.
In the shot you are referring to we purposefully do not show a stone in the hat. This shot is depicting Joseph and Martin Harris translating the first 116 pages (the Lost Manuscript they are talking about). According to Lucy Mack Smith's account, Emma's account, and Joseph Smith himself, the Interpreters (Urim and Thummim) were used to translate the 116 pages. The hat with the interpreters inside it is mentioned (second hand) by Martin Harris in several accounts as well as others (Joseph Knight Sr. and William McLellin). The depiction considers all these accounts, putting weight on the fact the Martin was scribe at that time. In an 1870 letter, Emma Smith recalled that Joseph Smith switched to the seer stone when God took the Urim and Thummim after the 116 pages were lost. David Whitmer corroborated this story in an 1885 interview. Unfortunately historical accounts don't clearly establish which methods were used when or how often. Our scholars chose the depiction that seemed most likely given the accounts of those that were present (Martin) and those closest to Joseph (Lucy and Emma).
Grew up right there. You can read about me in the June 1987, NEW ERA article "Downstream". The Isaac Hale affidavit sums up the Smith activity in the area very well.
That idea about Oliver Calgary and how he Said he had rights and he could sell his land and make profit off it because it was America, reminds me of the story of ananias and Sapphria who sold their land and died at Peter's feet cuz they thought they had every right to hold on to what they felt was theirs. Thank you for again. Your illustrations in this conversation are great
And today Our Brethren each from the top of his profession, retires with a pay cut, continuing to work 60 hours a week, traveling constantly to spend weekends only seeing the inside of church buildings and continuing humbly with his wife for the rest of his days. You were Correct: "This isn't how you run a con."
You misquoted Oliver in his testimony of the translation. Here is the correct quote. “I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages), as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by that book, ‘holy interpreters."
Let's just travel, willy nilly, from place to place, as far as 4 or 5 day journey... And later, let's just say that 114 pages are eventually lost... And let's just say that only after three times meeting with the angel, Joseph is finally trusted with the plates... And let's just say that the record is translated with the help of more than one scribe! Let's just say the record and history of the coming forth of The Book of Mormon and The Church, which espouses it is true! 😊
Oliver had issues with Joseph Smith. His experience reminds us that faith journeys can be complex and that everyone faces personal challenges and struggles. What's inspiring is that despite his doubts and difficulties, he found his way back to the faith later in life. This speaks to his enduring testimony and the forgiving, welcoming nature of the Gospel.
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial I appreciate your response, but I find it extremely 2020s (faith journey 🤢) and unsatisfactory. Oliver turned his back on a church he helped found under the direction of visible angels, all because he had problems with a guy? Honestly that’s messed up.
Joseph Smith spent all this time guarding & translating The Plates - the Book of Mormon delivered by the Angel Michael. So where are the plates now? The Angel returned & took them back to heaven. Oh. Sure. Convenient, that. But hey: god obviously needed them. Who knows why - he's god. Don't ask. Discussion of all this persecution of the early Mormons, but no discussion of what REALLY pissed off the locals: 1) Polygamy: they married lots of local women reducing the pool of women available to others. And with multiple wives & LOTS of children you have free labour & an advantage over your neighbours. Enabling you to marry more women. 2) Monetary fraud. A major problem at the time was the issuance of money by states, local banks, and even retailers. Local retail stores (there weren't retail chains at the time) would sometimes issue their own paper money then refuse to honour it. The Mormons in PA were famous for this. That REALLY pissed off the locals, and they were driven out. It was considerably later that the US government cleaned up this problem by making it illegal for any authority except the federal government to issue currency.
So what you're saying is the church has a history of treating people badly right back to the beginning. Then the church spins its behavior and later, after many years, quietly drops the charges or adjusts the official history to be consistent with what it was excommuncating its own historians for saying truthfully. There's so much garbage in church history and church culture. It's the cover-ups that get you. I love history and have studied all sorts of history my entire life. It became very clear to me as a teenager that reading church history in any serious way would lead to leaving the church. Too much changing stories, too many cover ups, too many dubious transactions/behaviors, and too much lying for the Lord. A lot more has happened in the ensuing decades. I do not believe we're going to stand at the judgment seat and learn that church history was truthful. We're going to learn that, in many ways, the church was not a bastion of integrity and truth. I've certainly witnessed a lot of dishonest behavior in my dealings with church members over the decades. And a rather astonishing amount of justification of dishonest behavior. Yes, I'm still an active, temple recommend holding member. And I have a completely different idea of what integrity and honesty are from quite a lot of members I've known and currently know.
I was told when I started going to church "don't go to church for the people because they are human." I never judge because I don't know all the circumstances they are living in and with. I believe there are always 3 sides to any situation.
Church history is challenging for sure. We are dealing with very imperfect people who made mistakes just like you or I. Focusing on these mistakes and criticizing the Lord's Church or its leaders however doesn't accomplish anything. It just sows seeds of bitterness and allows the adversary to take hold in our hearts. I disagree that reading Church history "in any serious way" will make you leave the church. Take the experience of Don Bradley for example who is perhaps the world's foremost expert on Joseph Smith and Polygamy. Bradley initially left the Church because of assumptions he made about its history, but as he studied even more seriously (and even from an anti perspective) he came back. The history of the Church can be a trial of faith for some, but earnest seekers filled with the spirit can discern truth from error and see things as they really are. I would also contend that Church History is no more complicated or messy than anything we read in the Bible or Book of Mormon. Imperfect people, trying (and often failing) to live up to the commission Christ gave us all to "be ye therefore perfect". We would all do well to remember the words of Moroni when he wrote ""And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ."
Yes, we are all fallible and imperfect! Some more than others, but it is only Jesus Christ who can redeem us from our sins after we repent. I think the evidence about Oliver Cowdery solidifies his testimony! 😊@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial
Great video, I’m Mexican and now I have a better idea and understanding history of the church.!
Hermanos muchas gracias!
Wonderful work. Thank you for doing this series. It enhances the testimony we already have by the power of the Holy Spirt.
Glad you enjoy it!
I have visited Harmony, PA, and Palmyra...and I loved both sites. Emma was a true, loyal and humble wife of Joseph Smith.
I visited that area about three years ago. I was stunned at how rural it still is. It was a real testimony builder to be there in person. Thanks for posting this video!
I didn’t realize Emma and Joseph went to live right down the street from her parents. Thank you so much for the series! Please keep it going. We love it. You’re changing lives!
Thanks for watching!
A wonderful and easily digestible way to recount our history, thanks…
This is so fascinating. Thank you so much for doing this. Love from the UK 🇬🇧
Glad you enjoyed it!
Really find Church history so fascinating. Many thanks for putting this video together God bless you in your work 😊❤️🙏🏻
Thanks for watching!
Church History was my favorite year of Seminary!! 10th grade @ OHS. 🙏 🇺🇸
This was so great!
Love Bro Griffiths!!! Took his class at BYU and I've loved/followed him since!
Very informative, thank you.
You are welcome!
Great information and video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank You ❤
Thanks for watching!
I wish there was a VR tour of these areas. It's hard to get out there. It would be so cool to do something like that.
Generally nice video. A couple of comments:
The shot at 12:45 of the translation fudges the historical accounts by showing both a hat (presumably with the treasure-digging scrying stone in it) and the plates, with Joseph looking back and forth between them. Showing the plates is an improvement over depictions of Joseph only looking in the hat at the scrying stone, but the portrayal still falls short of Joseph and Oliver's published accounts, which state that the translation came from the plates using the Nephite interpreters which came with the plates (sometimes called the Urim & Thummim), with neither ever referring the use of a hat or the scrying stone. We need a depiction which is true to Joseph and Oliver's accounts of Joseph looking at the plates through the interpreters. (The stone-in-the-hat accounts come from very problematic secondhand sources.)
On Oliver's death, another inspiring point is that David Whitmer reported that Oliver exhorted him to always continue testifying of the Book of Mormon, which David did even though he (David) felt Joseph became a fallen prophet, and thus also had incentive to deny his testimony as another of the Three Witnesses.
In the shot you are referring to we purposefully do not show a stone in the hat. This shot is depicting Joseph and Martin Harris translating the first 116 pages (the Lost Manuscript they are talking about). According to Lucy Mack Smith's account, Emma's account, and Joseph Smith himself, the Interpreters (Urim and Thummim) were used to translate the 116 pages. The hat with the interpreters inside it is mentioned (second hand) by Martin Harris in several accounts as well as others (Joseph Knight Sr. and William McLellin). The depiction considers all these accounts, putting weight on the fact the Martin was scribe at that time. In an 1870 letter, Emma Smith recalled that Joseph Smith switched to the seer stone when God took the Urim and Thummim after the 116 pages were lost. David Whitmer corroborated this story in an 1885 interview. Unfortunately historical accounts don't clearly establish which methods were used when or how often. Our scholars chose the depiction that seemed most likely given the accounts of those that were present (Martin) and those closest to Joseph (Lucy and Emma).
Grew up right there. You can read about me in the June 1987, NEW ERA article "Downstream".
The Isaac Hale affidavit sums up the Smith activity in the area very well.
That idea about Oliver Calgary and how he Said he had rights and he could sell his land and make profit off it because it was America, reminds me of the story of ananias and Sapphria who sold their land and died at Peter's feet cuz they thought they had every right to hold on to what they felt was theirs. Thank you for again. Your illustrations in this conversation are great
Thank you!
❤❤❤❤
This isn't how you run a con.
Yes what immense sacrifices were made by so many for the Book of Mormon and the restoration of the gospel
And today Our Brethren each from the top of his profession, retires with a pay cut, continuing to work 60 hours a week, traveling constantly to spend weekends only seeing the inside of church buildings and continuing humbly with his wife for the rest of his days.
You were Correct:
"This isn't how you run a con."
You misquoted Oliver in his testimony of the translation. Here is the correct quote. “I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages), as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by that book, ‘holy interpreters."
Love this 8:13
Sometimes l cannot believe l was chosen, God sent missionaries to our door. The church is true, l know from my chore. 🇬🇧 20:55
Let's just travel, willy nilly, from place to place, as far as 4 or 5 day journey... And later, let's just say that 114 pages are eventually lost... And let's just say that only after three times meeting with the angel, Joseph is finally trusted with the plates... And let's just say that the record is translated with the help of more than one scribe!
Let's just say the record and history of the coming forth of The Book of Mormon and The Church, which espouses it is true! 😊
I’m still not sure how I feel about Oliver. He was given much, much much more than a regular member, yet still turned his back on it.
Oliver had issues with Joseph Smith. His experience reminds us that faith journeys can be complex and that everyone faces personal challenges and struggles. What's inspiring is that despite his doubts and difficulties, he found his way back to the faith later in life. This speaks to his enduring testimony and the forgiving, welcoming nature of the Gospel.
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial I appreciate your response, but I find it extremely 2020s (faith journey 🤢) and unsatisfactory.
Oliver turned his back on a church he helped found under the direction of visible angels, all because he had problems with a guy? Honestly that’s messed up.
Joseph Smith spent all this time guarding & translating The Plates - the Book of Mormon delivered by the Angel Michael. So where are the plates now?
The Angel returned & took them back to heaven.
Oh. Sure. Convenient, that.
But hey: god obviously needed them. Who knows why - he's god. Don't ask.
Discussion of all this persecution of the early Mormons, but no discussion of what REALLY pissed off the locals:
1) Polygamy: they married lots of local women reducing the pool of women available to others. And with multiple wives & LOTS of children you have free labour & an advantage over your neighbours. Enabling you to marry more women.
2) Monetary fraud. A major problem at the time was the issuance of money by states, local banks, and even retailers. Local retail stores (there weren't retail chains at the time) would sometimes issue their own paper money then refuse to honour it. The Mormons in PA were famous for this. That REALLY pissed off the locals, and they were driven out.
It was considerably later that the US government cleaned up this problem by making it illegal for any authority except the federal government to issue currency.
So what you're saying is the church has a history of treating people badly right back to the beginning. Then the church spins its behavior and later, after many years, quietly drops the charges or adjusts the official history to be consistent with what it was excommuncating its own historians for saying truthfully. There's so much garbage in church history and church culture. It's the cover-ups that get you. I love history and have studied all sorts of history my entire life. It became very clear to me as a teenager that reading church history in any serious way would lead to leaving the church. Too much changing stories, too many cover ups, too many dubious transactions/behaviors, and too much lying for the Lord. A lot more has happened in the ensuing decades. I do not believe we're going to stand at the judgment seat and learn that church history was truthful. We're going to learn that, in many ways, the church was not a bastion of integrity and truth. I've certainly witnessed a lot of dishonest behavior in my dealings with church members over the decades. And a rather astonishing amount of justification of dishonest behavior. Yes, I'm still an active, temple recommend holding member. And I have a completely different idea of what integrity and honesty are from quite a lot of members I've known and currently know.
I was told when I started going to church "don't go to church for the people because they are human." I never judge because I don't know all the circumstances they are living in and with. I believe there are always 3 sides to any situation.
Church history is challenging for sure. We are dealing with very imperfect people who made mistakes just like you or I. Focusing on these mistakes and criticizing the Lord's Church or its leaders however doesn't accomplish anything. It just sows seeds of bitterness and allows the adversary to take hold in our hearts. I disagree that reading Church history "in any serious way" will make you leave the church. Take the experience of Don Bradley for example who is perhaps the world's foremost expert on Joseph Smith and Polygamy. Bradley initially left the Church because of assumptions he made about its history, but as he studied even more seriously (and even from an anti perspective) he came back. The history of the Church can be a trial of faith for some, but earnest seekers filled with the spirit can discern truth from error and see things as they really are. I would also contend that Church History is no more complicated or messy than anything we read in the Bible or Book of Mormon. Imperfect people, trying (and often failing) to live up to the commission Christ gave us all to "be ye therefore perfect". We would all do well to remember the words of Moroni when he wrote ""And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ."
Yes, we are all fallible and imperfect! Some more than others, but it is only Jesus Christ who can redeem us from our sins after we repent. I think the evidence about Oliver Cowdery solidifies his testimony! 😊@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial