My favorite reenactment was that of Sister Whitmer when an angel shown her the plates...thank you for this video and oh i like the ...they run out of car rentals...hahaha. good job..
Martin Harris receiving his witness. And thank you for showing me his grave site., I had never seen that before and it certainly does make it more real. 🩷 from Australia 🇦🇺
Mary Whitmer. You didn't show how she was upset that the men we not working while she felt like she bore the brunt of the manual labor on the farm. Then, one can only speculate that it was either Moroni or one of the Three Nephites showed it to her. I like how he said that she had been toiling and understood what she was doing and how she felt. Sometimes all we need is empathy
How did the 3 witnesses (the scribes) 'witness the plates? Why did the 8 witnesses (Joseph and Davids families) get to see the plates physically, but the 3 scribes werent allowed?
@mikkifrompreston4396 the 3 saw the plates and the angel, the 8 saw just the plates, no angel. You can read their statements for the full story. But basically that. The Testimony of Three Witnesses Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen. Oliver Cowdery David Whitmer Martin Harris The Testimony of Eight Witnesses Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it. Christian Whitmer Jacob Whitmer Peter Whitmer, Jun. John Whitmer Hiram Page Joseph Smith, Sen. Hyrum Smith Samuel H. Smith
@dinocollins720 I love all the support from you guys it's amazing truly this channel here is also amazing and has really awesome historical topics and videos I love history
You’re kind! We’re not perfect by any means but we sure love the Redeemer and try to conduct ourselves accordingly. I’m looking forward to more of your videos just reading the Bible and The Book of Mormon.
I cried because, in the movie, I realized that if Heavenly Father chooses us, no matter what we did in the past, He is still looking at our hearts and calling us to further the work of salvation. Thank you so much for this episode,, I felt the Spirit!
Beautiful! I can’t wait to thank Martin Harris for his sacrifices so that I could have the blessing of the Book of Mormon in my life. How I love this book that teaches me so much about my Savior.
I have been to Martin Harris's gravesite in Clarkston, Utah, and I have seen the pageant there when it was still being held. I appreciate the time you took to share this video with others about the witnesses of the truthfulness of the Book Of Mormon. I have been to the Peter Whitmore Farm House and felt a special spirit there. I felt the spirit as I watched this video and know the truthfulness you shared. Thank you for sharing your testimony. I really have been enjoying the videos in this series.
I love the story of Mary Whitmer when someone appeared to her and mentioned he was sent for her as an answer to her prayer to be a witness of the record of the Nephites.
Thank you for this amazing series. Scott Christopher does such a great job. Having visited all of these places this series has brought back a flood of memories and helps me to more fully internalize how the spirit touched me in each setting. Keep up the fantastic work.
I am so grateful for the opportunity to watch this documentary. It helped to increase my testimony of the prophet Joseph Smith and those other witnesses. This is a marvelous work and a wonder. Blessed be the Lord Jesus Christ for this restoration.
I felt the Spirit again witnessing, that the Book Of Mormon is indeed another testament of the Lord Jesus Christ this is His work. The testimonies are powerful. Salute to Brother Scott Christopher and the crew for your work.
Esther, you’re being indoctrinated into this false religion that simply isn’t true. My advice is to look at both sides of the coin, which includes videos that completely debunk all of this bogus, because what they are presenting here is total nonsense. Dont listen to your parents or church leaders just because they are in a position of authority.
@@dcarts5616 yeah I don’t know all of them but I recognized some of the actors. JS did seem like an odd choice to me; I’ve never pictured JS even looking remotely like that, but I think he did a great job acting. He filled the role well brought some gravitas. Haha
That was in 1831, when Joseph was in a meeting which had a lot of other business to get to. However, after the anti-LDS book Mormonism Unvailed was published in 1834 with its false Spalding and seerstone-in-the-hat theories about how the Book of Mormon was produced, both Joseph and Oliver Cowdery published many statements about the translation emphasizing that it came from the plates through the means of the Nephite interpreters which came with the plates (sometimes referred to as the Urim & Thummim). See, for example, Oliver's account included in the Pearl of Great Price as a note to JS-H 1:71.
Alma 37: 23 And the Lord said: I will prepare unto my servant Gazelem, a stone, which shall shine forth in darkness unto light, that I may discover unto my people who serve me, that I may discover unto them the works of their brethren, yea, their secret works, their works of darkness, and their wickedness and abominations. 24 And now, my son, these interpreters were prepared that the word of God might be fulfilled, which he spake, saying: 25 I will bring forth out of darkness unto light all their secret works and their abominations; and except they repent I will destroy them from off the face of the earth; and I will bring to light all their secrets and abominations, unto every nation that shall hereafter possess the land.
Somewhere I read that the prophet Joseph Smith said the name of the brother of Jared was Mahonri Moriamcumer. I was thinking the Lord may have given him a new name like He did with Abraham, Israel, and other prophets. Scholars say Moses' name, given by his mother was Joachim, and the one given to him by pharoh's daughter was longer than the actual name he calls himself in his books. Maybe the Lord changed his name to Moses on Mount Sinai. I am pretty sure the Lord gave a new name to the brother of Jared on Mount Shelem also. It's possible the Lord gave him the name, Gazelem?
The Lord declared, “I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write” (Ether 3:24). These stones, the Urim and Thumin, were handed down to each seer in the Book of Mormon, and lastly were given to Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni, the last seer who possed them. Why would the prophet have a need to use other instruments in the translation process?
We watched all 4 of the episodes of this program it was such eye opening on what they have learnt and put together these programs they are ❤❤❤❤ so uplifting of this knowledge they have put together from scripture central thank another to help me with my lack of knowledge of the scriptures ❤❤❤❤ just love it
i love hearing the testimonies of the Book or Mormon. its truthfulness gives me much hope and encouragement that God lives, and he speaks, and that I am an heir to all that He offers me thru the gospel plan for me and all of his children.
Thank you for this episode, I know the Book of Mormon is true and I have always known it since I was 13. Thank you for this wonderful episode where the tears flowed. Thanks to Scott and your testimony that emanates from your episodes. ❤
@mikkifrompreston4396 Some truth can be found everywhere, so one has to look at all the fruits of a religion and ascertain where authority to act in God's name is coming from. The Book of Mormon is a work of such magnitude and miraculous experiences, including an absolute promise, that sincere seekers will be given to know of it's veracity if they want it.
@mikkifrompreston4396 they rejected the word of God coming through the living prophet, and apostles. See Official Declaration #1 in the Doctrine and Covenants.
@@tamragoodrich6067 but current LDS prophets today, reject revelations of past prophets and apostles.... eg the preisthood ban, adam God theory an plural marriage. Can the word of God change?
Chief Midegah, a chief of the Ojibwa and a member of the Church, says an ancestor of his helped Hyrum hide the plates under the wooden floor of a barn. She saw and handled them, too.
Beautiful temple, beautiful Witness of Christ Beautiful savior who stands above the pulpit- Mighty testament of the restoration of Ancient Israel’s priesthood- Movement west
❤️ Thank you with a purposeful heart, Bringing Love that it may be filled generously in all kindness of Gods wisdom…Heavenly Father ❤️ indeed cherishes an abundance of Gratification. ❤️ I love you you all more.
It was hard for me to see the actor who plays Joseph Smith ... not as a tall man. Martin Harris towers over him. Although that said, I enjoyed these proof presented.
Thank you for this presentation offered with such care and detail. Not being LDS myself, but interested in LDS studies, I wasn't aware that the eight handled the exposed plates at any given time, especially all at once in the grove. What are the sources for this account? Also, during the translation of the book, the video shows Joseph with the plates next to the hat, and that he is referencing the plates while merely peering into the hat. What sources can I find that the plates were present at the table during translation? I thought the plates were covered and elsewhere during this process? Thanks for any information you might be able to offer.
Thank you for your comment. There are many accounts of the eight witnesses, the primary one of course being the actual testimony written and published in the Book of Mormon itself. Take a look at this page from Mormonr.org about the witnesses. There is a section titled "Statements of reaffirmation from the eleven witnesses" That contains many first and secondhand accounts all with footnote references and dates. Regarding translation, again there are many accounts. The primary source for the representation in the video I believe comes from the account of Lucy Mac Smith stating that Joseph used interpreters and sometimes a seer stone to translate. We don't know exactly how things looked or were set up, but from the various accounts we know that peering into a hat with the seer stone or perhaps the Urim and Thummim inside was sometimes the method employed. The Joseph Smith Papers website is an excellent source for original documents. I suggest starting with this overview: www.josephsmithpapers.org/intro/introduction-to-documents-volume-1-july-1828-june-1831
We millions say they believe the bible to be the word of God but how many REALLY do 100 percent because there are a lot of weird miricles in the bible like a donkey talking and a rod turning into a snake etc I believe the bible to be the word of God because i pray every day Repent And seek the Holy Spirit to help me and i believe the book of mormon the same way
Joseph Smith is the prophet of the restitution of all things spoken of by all the Holy prophets and The Book of Mormon is what it purports to be, an ancient Egyptian record of the time only existing during that one moment in time when the Greek's, Egyptian's and Hebrews had an alliance. Joseph Smith didn't know that he was translating word for word Egyptian into English, but we have the evidence today and another testimony from Dr. Sami Hanna! That record is a Semitic record in every detail.
The golden plates are a similitude of Jesus Christ. Both are long lasting/immortal and both have been returned to our Heavenly Father. We have witness and records of their existence. Critic's might say, "Oh, it's convenient that the plates have been taken back" but could not the argument be made about a resurrected Savour? Why isn't he here now with us, since his immortal? Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:29)
@@RichF245 Thank you so much. I have thoroughly enjoyed this series. This was one of my favorite episodes. But all of the episodes have been intriguing and educational. Thank you again.
The Lord declared, “I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write” (Ether 3:24). These stones, the Urim and Thumin, were handed down to each seer in the Book of Mormon, and lastly were given to Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni, the last seer who possessed them.
31:00. That man was the Messenger who Joseph, Oliver and David saw on the road on a wagonride from Harmony. When asked if he wanted a ride he said "No, I'm going to *_CUMORAH_* !"
He was a farm boy accustomed to hard work. Army special forces and Navy Seals do it all the time. The plates were likely a gold alloy to be stronger yet inscribable.
The composition of the plates is a topic of interest for many people and most scholars agree that they were likely not made of pure gold. We have an excellent article about that here: scripturecentral.org/evidence/composition-of-the-plates
Just to add to minute 32, the accounts all differ. Some say the plates were shown to them at somebody’s home (JS‘s?), one of the three witnesses said in a field, others said in the woods 🤷🏻♀️
The accounts do have differences. This is one of the challenges of history. People report things differently especially over the course of their lives. This is why it is so important to look at all accounts to understand what really happened.
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial>>> No …this is because everything the LDS church has ever claimed, in these multiple confusing accounts, are totally contradictory, AND ☝️ have never ever been verified by ‘Expert Witnesses’ in an official Court-of-Law inquiry, before any Judges and Juries, ever. Mere ‘claims’ of validity mean nothing, when compared to the stricter requirements for presentation in the United States Court system. BUT ☝️, discover the Shocking and Amazing FACTS surrounding the higher quality of Evidence which the True Researchers have proven, concerning the Authentic Stories of the Holy Bible as revealed in this landmark book (and updated for 2018 ,,,) >>> Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell & Sean McDowell, PhD.
It is true that all three witnesses left the church over differences with Joseph, but not one of them ever denied what they saw (although many tried to get them to). Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery came back to the Church later in life.
There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there is perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.
Thank you for producing the witnesses re-enactment. Also, I would like to add my witness that the Book of Mormon is a true record that testify the divinity of Heavenly Father and His son Jesus Christ. I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and was an instrument in translating the ancient record by the power of the Holy Ghost. I know also that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is God's kingdom here on earth. I so testify these things to be true in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
An observation that I find interesting is that LDS members base belief on a personal testimony or feeling. In Nicene Christianity reliance on scripture is paramount to personal feelings.
This idea of gaining a personal witness comes from the scriptures. Of course the scripture in James 1:5 is the most often quoted "let him ask of God", but there are many others such as Matthew 21:22 "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.", Philippians 4:6 "...but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.", etc. Prayer and seeking guidance from God is the way in which we can more fully understand his word as written in scripture, and answers often come through a combination of prayer and study.
Yes, but what do you do when scriptural integrity weakens? When scripture gets translated over and over and is reinterpreted over centuries either accidentally or worse, on purpose? Best bet to rely on communication from a divine and loving Father who is there waiting for us to ask, knock and seek His pure truths.
there wouldnt be more believers if God showed the plates to more people? r u sure about that? I wonder the reasoning behind that idea in a video thats showing extra witnesses beyond the 11 as a means of boosting belief
I don't think there would. Remember the people in Jerusalem had Jesus there with him, they saw miracles, yet so many still chose not to believe, and they crucified him. The same happened in the Book of Mormon when despite signs from heaven and miracles being performed they set aside a day to kill the believers if the sign of Christ's birth did not come. When it did, they fell to the earth with fear because they realized the prophecy had been fulfilled. Most then repented and were baptized. God will not take away people's opportunity to choose for themselves or exercise faith.
It's a good question you ask Ally. I've thought about this before. I believe Heavenly Father is cautious in how much evidence He puts out there. If the evidence was so strong that all but the bitterest critics had to agree of the authenticity of any point of belief, then the agency of mankind is compromised. He will not force anyone to believe, but give just enough evidence to confirm the belief that already was in the heart. But if people do not exercise their faith to read, ponder and pray, they can choose to not believe and dismiss the evidence believers see.
Well Laman and Lemuel saw an angel, felt God's power, and heard the voice of the Lord and they still turned out the way they did. So, 🤷♀️ Those who choose the things of the world over Christ will deny the authenticity of what they've seen, heard, and felt.
At around 23 min, there is a mistake. Martin Harris never touched or saw the plates. He only saw them with his „spiritual eyes“ and then he mentioned something like seeing them like a city through a mountain. Knowing that they are there, but not actually seeing them with his eyes.
Actually it's not a mistake. Martin gave many accounts of the plates and especially later in his life. Although the accounts differ in details it is important to remember who they come from. Several of the accounts were given by those who were trying to discount the witnesses and their actually seeing the plates. If you take all the accounts together especially those later in Martin's life directly from him he reaffirmed time and again that he had seen the plates for real. He would say things like "Do you see this hand, just as surely as you see my hand, I saw the plates." There is no doubt that he was trying to emphasize the reality of his experience. He also testified in several accounts that he did actually handle the plates. We do not know on what occasion, but it was likely sometime during translation and in the same way as did Joseph's family, feeling them or hefting them while they were covered. The account that mentions spiritual eyes is often used to discredit Martin but if you read all the accounts they make it clear. Here is an excellent article with 10 or so of the statements from Martin: witnessesofthebookofmormon.org/three-witnesses/martin-harris/statements/
Did they all see the plates with the spiritual eyes, like Cowdery and David Whitmer later stated they did, or did they physically see them unlike the other two?
This is such an old and tired argument against the witnesses testimonies. It was actually Martin Harris that used the term "Spiritual Eyes", none of the other witnesses used this language to describe the experience. Martin afterwards amended his testimony (on many occasions) clarifying that although it was a spiritual experience to hear the voice of God, and see an angel, he saw the plates just as plain as you see anything. There is an excellent explanation of this here: mormonr.org/qnas/0Eiiyt#q-pP4aSOKyirLdDvDAmlra
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial I completely understand you ARE an apologetic organization, BUT I will have to disagree with you 100%. Martin Harris stated MANY times, and in different words that he never saw the Book of Mormon, NOR did the other 2 witnesses. They all saw within a vision only. Joseph took Martin off to the side from Whitmer and Cowdery, and took Smith several attempts to guide Harris in his vision. I have a book in the works, and source FAIR Mormon as well, who touched on this, AND I also use your site as an alternative view of what is truth, NOT sanitized apologetic. “But did you see them [plates] with your natural, your bodily eyes, just as you see this pencil-case in my hand? Now say no or yes to this.” Martin answered, “I did not see them as I do that pencil-case, yet I saw them with the eye of faith; I saw them just as distinctly as I see anything around me, though at the time they were covered over with a cloth.” ““Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?” According to Gilbert, Harris “looked down for an instant, raised his eyes up, and said, ‘No, I saw them with a spiritual eye.’” David Whitmer "In regards to my testimony to the visitation of the angel, who declared to us three witnesses that the Book of Mormon is true, I have this to say: Of course we were in the spirit when we had the view, for no man can behold the face of an angel, except in a spiritual view, but 'we were in the body also, and everything was as natural to us, as it is at any time." I provided those from FAIR, I play fair ;) Unfortunately the LDS church does not. I WAS a member for over 20 years, a RM, and held several callings within teaching positions. I know what was, is and is not taught by the church, I am not some never Mormon who is clueless and get their information from "anti Mormon" sites. www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_David_Whitmer_believe_his_witness_experience_was_%22only_a_vision%22%3F www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Book_of_Mormon/Witnesses/%22Eye_of_Faith%22_and_%22Spiritual_Eye%22_statements_by_Martin_Harris
We normally don't allow links in comments but yours were allowed because they show the problem with your argument very well. It is easy to take things out of context when it comes to historical accounts and it is also easy (as you have noted) to put too much emphasis on only the accounts that fit our worldview. The same article you reference with these quotes also says the following: "Some wish to make it appear as though the statements made by Martin Harris about the Three Witnesses’ manifestation discount its reality. Doing so pulls Harris’ statements out of their proper context..." If we go on to read all the accounts, look at all the evidence, it becomes very clear that not only Martin, but any of the other 20 witnesses of the gold plates had no doubt as to what they saw. We encourage everyone to study all the sources. As an apologetic organization we are often accused of ignoring information, but I assure you that is not the case. We focus on the whole picture. You won't find people who are more familiar with all the nitty gritty details. Take for example Don Bradley, who if you haven't watched his interviews with Stephen Jones, they will maybe give you an idea of the depth of searching for truth that happens in this organization. ruclips.net/video/SNIOmH7RV2I/видео.htmlsi=kqrGB5WD3hKtPuQN
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial I commented with FAIR LDS links, which I assume would be fair game since it is PRO LDS, and one of their apologetic groups, like yourselves. Yes I read on, I assumed you would also know what followed, I more than assumed, I am sure you knew. The point I was making is Harris is on record making many statements in different words, and thus was not taken out of context, or was mistaken. You do address Harris’ comments, but you don’t touch on the statements made by Davis Whitmer of the same nature of seeing the assumed plates. Thank you for reading my comments, and replying,
Smith did NOT tell Stoal that he had gone for the plates.. Smith took Stoals horse and carriage, and took off with Emma to “dig up the playes”. Stoal was freaking out. We get this directly from Lucy Mack Smith
Your information is not entirely correct. Joseph actually took Joseph Knight Senior's wagon to get the plates, but he did go with Emma as you've said. The plates were hidden in a log for a time until they were brought to the Smith home. This can be found in Lucy Mack's journal. She mentions that others were there but does not mention Stoal by name. The details of Josiah Stoal comes from his own account and a letter to Joseph Smith from Martha Campbell. Here are links to those references: Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1844-1845, Page [6], bk. 5, p. [6], bk. 5, The Joseph Smith Papers, www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/60 mormonr.org/qnas/0Eiiyt/book_of_mormon_witnesses/research#re-hugASb-Ka1Ghb mormonr.org/qnas/0Eiiyt/book_of_mormon_witnesses/research#re-nvGFqb-6tQMgb
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial My bad you are correct, I had meant to say Knight Sr, Not Stoal/Stowell. Both had come to town together at the same time, BUT it was Knight Sr who had his horse and buggy STOLEN by Joseph, Lucy tells us herself that Knight Sr stated his horse and carriage were stolen, and that she knew that Joseph and Emma had taken it, without his knowledge. Weather I got the right person by name, the event does not change, nor the fact that Smith did not "borrow" Knight's horse and carriage, but took them without permission and his knowledge. BUT thank you for clarifying my mistaken on whom was whom.
I don't believe in Mormonism, but I enjoy watching this series. I think there is room among serious scholars for a theory that the plates did indeed exist. That Joseph Smith Jr. made them or had them made. Likely not of gold, but brass/copper or other metal and possibly gold plated. Not sure. If I had to guess I would say they didn't exist, but there is definitely a chance they could have. Having said that, even if they did exist, I dont believe reformed Egyptian was ever a language. Nice documentaries tho, great series.
When according to arrangements the messenger called for them I delivered them up to him and he has them in his charge until this day being the second of May one thousand eight hundred and thirty eight
@@rclv428 does it mean this is the date he is writing this statement...because ...I just read he returned the plates 21months after 1827 upon receiving plates
Great podcast of course the book of mormon has to be from God sadly a lot of people arnt prepared to understand how important it is to find out if God is still speaking to us through the book of mormon and our prophet Now is the time to prepare to meet God
At BYU there are classes just about the Book of Mormon. However the religion major is more wholistic. Anyone who wishes to discuss theology in academic circles has to be learned in many books of scripture even if they focus their study on the Book of Mormon. Every student who attends BYU technically graduates with a minor in religion, though the honor is not actually awarded. There is also a Masters of Religion offered as well.
But not in the book of Mormon academia or history or geography or archeology, right . Book of Mormon in a religious class is different than studying the book of Mormon like the Bible is studied in the ancient studies department.
It sounds like you're asking about the theory that Sidney Rigdon was somehow connected to a manuscript written by Solomon Spalding, sometimes called the "Spalding Manuscript." This theory involves claims that the Book of Mormon was derived from Spalding's work through Rigdon's involvement. Solomon Spalding was a former minister who wrote an unpublished manuscript called "Manuscript, Found." After his death in 1816, the manuscript went missing. Some people later alleged that this manuscript found its way to Sidney Rigdon, who then used it as a source for the Book of Mormon. Sidney Rigdon was an early leader in the Latter-day Saint movement who joined the Church after the Book of Mormon was published. Skeptics of the Church have proposed that Rigdon collaborated with Joseph Smith, using Spalding's manuscript to create the Book of Mormon. However, the majority of historical scholars, including non-LDS scholars, have found little credible evidence to support this theory. Key points that challenge the theory include: Manuscript Recovery: The "Manuscript, Found" was eventually discovered and is nothing like the Book of Mormon. Timelines and Relationships: Historical records don’t show that Rigdon had any connection with Joseph Smith or the manuscript before its publication. Witness Testimonies: The Eight Witnesses and the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon consistently maintained their testimonies of the divine origins of the book, even under duress and despite leaving the Church for various reasons.
Which was your favorite re-enactment?
My favorite reenactment was that of Sister Whitmer when an angel shown her the plates...thank you for this video and oh i like the ...they run out of car rentals...hahaha. good job..
Martin Harris receiving his witness. And thank you for showing me his grave site., I had never seen that before and it certainly does make it more real. 🩷 from Australia 🇦🇺
Mary Whitmer. You didn't show how she was upset that the men we not working while she felt like she bore the brunt of the manual labor on the farm. Then, one can only speculate that it was either Moroni or one of the Three Nephites showed it to her. I like how he said that she had been toiling and understood what she was doing and how she felt. Sometimes all we need is empathy
How did the 3 witnesses (the scribes) 'witness the plates?
Why did the 8 witnesses (Joseph and Davids families) get to see the plates physically, but the 3 scribes werent allowed?
@mikkifrompreston4396 the 3 saw the plates and the angel, the 8 saw just the plates, no angel. You can read their statements for the full story. But basically that.
The Testimony of Three Witnesses Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen. Oliver Cowdery David Whitmer Martin Harris
The Testimony of Eight Witnesses Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it. Christian Whitmer Jacob Whitmer Peter Whitmer, Jun. John Whitmer Hiram Page Joseph Smith, Sen. Hyrum Smith Samuel H. Smith
I'm learning more about mormons or latterday saints and you guys are awesome wholesome super nice people I love it
Thank you! We love you! 👊
@dinocollins720 I love all the support from you guys it's amazing truly this channel here is also amazing and has really awesome historical topics and videos I love history
You’re kind! We’re not perfect by any means but we sure love the Redeemer and try to conduct ourselves accordingly. I’m looking forward to more of your videos just reading the Bible and The Book of Mormon.
@@dcarts5616 that is awesome my friend
Good to see you around. Scripture Central is a great resource.
I cried because, in the movie, I realized that if Heavenly Father chooses us, no matter what we did in the past, He is still looking at our hearts and calling us to further the work of salvation. Thank you so much for this episode,, I felt the Spirit!
Thanks for sharing 🙌
❤
You are hilarious!
One of the best Podcasts going. Nothing political, just some beautiful ways to support the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, a second witness!
Glad you enjoy it!
Beautiful! I can’t wait to thank Martin Harris for his sacrifices so that I could have the blessing of the Book of Mormon in my life. How I love this book that teaches me so much about my Savior.
The spirit was strong and testified of the truthfullness of the testimony of the witnesses of the Book Of Mormon. Thank you so much!
I have been to Martin Harris's gravesite in Clarkston, Utah, and I have seen the pageant there when it was still being held. I appreciate the time you took to share this video with others about the witnesses of the truthfulness of the Book Of Mormon. I have been to the Peter Whitmore Farm House and felt a special spirit there. I felt the spirit as I watched this video and know the truthfulness you shared. Thank you for sharing your testimony. I really have been enjoying the videos in this series.
Thank you for watching. Those Church history sites are indeed special places.
I love the story of Mary Whitmer when someone appeared to her and mentioned he was sent for her as an answer to her prayer to be a witness of the record of the Nephites.
It was so special! The poor woman was at wits end!
I'm also grateful that Mary Whitmer's witness was included here. Thanks for sharing your appreciate as well.)
Yes, very good, but you left out part of her testimony where the messenger identified himself as Bro. Nephi. Why?
Thank you so much, from the Philippines.
You're welcome!
Jonard do u know Sister Doria of Rosario Batangas ward?
Hey brother, I'm jonard LDS from the Philippines
Thank you for this amazing series. Scott Christopher does such a great job. Having visited all of these places this series has brought back a flood of memories and helps me to more fully internalize how the spirit touched me in each setting. Keep up the fantastic work.
We felt the same thing filming it. Thanks for watching!
I am so grateful for the opportunity to watch this documentary. It helped to increase my testimony of the prophet Joseph Smith and those other witnesses. This is a marvelous work and a wonder. Blessed be the Lord Jesus Christ for this restoration.
I felt the Spirit again witnessing, that the Book Of Mormon is indeed another testament of the Lord Jesus Christ this is His work. The testimonies are powerful. Salute to Brother Scott Christopher and the crew for your work.
Thank you for you comment and for watching!
100% true. It is a glorious privilege to have a testimony of these things. It is one of the greatest gifts we can receive from God in this life.
I too, and I am not LDS, I do however know the Holy Spirit 🙏 thank you for this wonderful work
@@BenMyers72 you think he didn't but he did, because so did I
Thanks, June!
My mom and I LOVE your episodes! THANK YOU!! - Esther, age 8 :)
Thanks for watching Esther and Esther's Mom!
Esther, you’re being indoctrinated into this false religion that simply isn’t true. My advice is to look at both sides of the coin, which includes videos that completely debunk all of this bogus, because what they are presenting here is total nonsense. Dont listen to your parents or church leaders just because they are in a position of authority.
Thank you for this extraordinary adventure!!!
Well done! Thank you! Given everything you've presented, however, it's still all about personal faith, experience, and testimony.
Well said!
Naturally
Absolutely amazing! I love everything y’all are doing. Extremely powerful witness of The Book of Mormon. Thank you all for all of the hard work!
Thanks for you comment, glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you, thank you for these wonderful episodes! You just made my day!!
Glad you like them!
love to see the scripture central team as actors!!! haha love it!
Well now it makes sense why they chose an actor in his late 40’s - early 50’s to play the barely even 30 year old JS.
I liked it either way.
@@dcarts5616 yeah I don’t know all of them but I recognized some of the actors. JS did seem like an odd choice to me; I’ve never pictured JS even looking remotely like that, but I think he did a great job acting. He filled the role well brought some gravitas. Haha
Thanks!
Thank you for the support!
Fantastic video once again!
Love what you are doing with this channel! ❤️☀️
Glad you enjoy it!
Well done! Love the work you guys are doing.
Another fantastic video; thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
fantastic re-enactments
Thank you!
Thanks!
Thank you!
When I watch your videos I understand better the history of the church. Thanks for share these videos
Thanks for watching
My favorite episode so far. Spirit bore witness again with every reenactment 💫
We are so happy you enjoyed it!
Joseph, on one occasion, said that it was never intended that he reveal all the details relative to the coming forth of The Book of Mormon!
That was in 1831, when Joseph was in a meeting which had a lot of other business to get to. However, after the anti-LDS book Mormonism Unvailed was published in 1834 with its false Spalding and seerstone-in-the-hat theories about how the Book of Mormon was produced, both Joseph and Oliver Cowdery published many statements about the translation emphasizing that it came from the plates through the means of the Nephite interpreters which came with the plates (sometimes referred to as the Urim & Thummim). See, for example, Oliver's account included in the Pearl of Great Price as a note to JS-H 1:71.
Alma 37: 23 And the Lord said: I will prepare unto my servant Gazelem, a stone, which shall shine forth in darkness unto light, that I may discover unto my people who serve me, that I may discover unto them the works of their brethren, yea, their secret works, their works of darkness, and their wickedness and abominations. 24 And now, my son, these interpreters were prepared that the word of God might be fulfilled, which he spake, saying: 25 I will bring forth out of darkness unto light all their secret works and their abominations; and except they repent I will destroy them from off the face of the earth; and I will bring to light all their secrets and abominations, unto every nation that shall hereafter possess the land.
Somewhere I read that the prophet Joseph Smith said the name of the brother of Jared was Mahonri Moriamcumer.
I was thinking the Lord may have given him a new name like He did with Abraham, Israel, and other prophets. Scholars say Moses' name, given by his mother was Joachim, and the one given to him by pharoh's daughter was longer than the actual name he calls himself in his books. Maybe the Lord changed his name to Moses on Mount Sinai. I am pretty sure the Lord gave a new name to the brother of Jared on Mount Shelem also. It's possible the Lord gave him the name, Gazelem?
The Lord declared, “I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write” (Ether 3:24). These stones, the Urim and Thumin, were handed down to each seer in the Book of Mormon, and lastly were given to Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni, the last seer who possed them. Why would the prophet have a need to use other instruments in the translation process?
You need to ask Russell Joseph used his hat Nelson
Great episode!
Love this energy, information and inspiration that went into this well done piece! Thank you!
We watched all 4 of the episodes of this program it was such eye opening on what they have learnt and put together these programs they are ❤❤❤❤ so uplifting of this knowledge they have put together from scripture central thank another to help me with my lack of knowledge of the scriptures ❤❤❤❤ just love it
Thank you for watching
I really enjoyed these programs they have so much knowledge to give us thank you all to the crew aling with yourself ❤❤❤
This increases my faith. Thank you! ❤
You are so welcome!
I like the way you filmed this in the land if the Book of Mormon. It was very refreshing.
Very good documentary. Kept me informed and entertained
Glad you enjoyed it!
Absolutely love your channel.
Thank you so much!
You have done a very good job . Very much appreciated.
Thank you!
Como siempre un excelente recordatorio de quienes somos. Gracias genial trabajo😊
Scott Christopher, you are a treasure too valuable to not wear a helmet. Please think of the work you have yet to complete. Love you brother.
Haha. The helmet didn't fit! Don't worry, I wear one on my bike back home in Tennessee.
thank you! i luv the book of Mormon!
Absolutely love these podcasts! ❤❤
Glad you like them!
i love hearing the testimonies of the Book or Mormon. its truthfulness gives me much hope and encouragement that God lives, and he speaks, and that I am an heir to all that He offers me thru the gospel plan for me and all of his children.
We can daily thank our merciful Father in Heaven and the Savior of the World for these merciful and marvelous events. Hallelujah!!
So interesting! Love this!
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for this episode, I know the Book of Mormon is true and I have always known it since I was 13. Thank you for this wonderful episode where the tears flowed. Thanks to Scott and your testimony that emanates from your episodes. ❤
Thank you for your comment! We appreciate the support!
Really enjoyed this post. I would have liked it if they had used a man who looked more like Joseph who had flax colored hair and blue eyes .
"What greater witness can you have than from God?!"
how do explain the witnesses that people of other faiths, have received that their own church is true....
@mikkifrompreston4396 Some truth can be found everywhere, so one has to look at all the fruits of a religion and ascertain where authority to act in God's name is coming from. The Book of Mormon is a work of such magnitude and miraculous experiences, including an absolute promise, that sincere seekers will be given to know of it's veracity if they want it.
@@tamragoodrich6067 what do you mean by "sincere seekers"?
The FLDS follow the book of mormon aswell... how were they misled by the same book?
@mikkifrompreston4396 they rejected the word of God coming through the living prophet, and apostles. See Official Declaration #1 in the Doctrine and Covenants.
@@tamragoodrich6067 but current LDS prophets today, reject revelations of past prophets and apostles.... eg the preisthood ban, adam God theory an plural marriage.
Can the word of God change?
Amazing
I am not christian but i like watching your videos gives me lot of curiosity
Thanks for watching!
Love it great work and evidence !
So glad you enjoyed it!
This is so inspiring thank you for this amazing video 😇🙏👍
You are welcome!
Just found this; amazing! Thanks for posting
Thank you so grateful for his testimony l felt the spirit 😊
I'm so glad!
Chief Midegah, a chief of the Ojibwa and a member of the Church, says an ancestor of his helped Hyrum hide the plates under the wooden floor of a barn. She saw and handled them, too.
Thank You ❤
Beautiful temple, beautiful Witness of Christ
Beautiful savior who stands above the pulpit-
Mighty testament of the restoration of Ancient Israel’s priesthood-
Movement west
Please continue the work of The Glory
Thank you so much for this video I believe with all my heart that the book of mormon is true
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you
Scott, you were a golden convert in Best Two Years.
Great movie, that!
Truly Prophet of God Joseph Smith
Truly a Pedophile IMO
😇 WE CAN NEVER DENY
OUR TESTIMONIES OF THE TRUTHFULNESS OF THE
GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST 🙏
❤️ Thank you with a purposeful heart, Bringing Love that it may be filled generously in all kindness of Gods wisdom…Heavenly Father ❤️ indeed cherishes an abundance of Gratification. ❤️ I love you you all more.
It was hard for me to see the actor who plays Joseph Smith ... not as a tall man. Martin Harris towers over him. Although that said, I enjoyed these proof presented.
Thank you for this presentation offered with such care and detail. Not being LDS myself, but interested in LDS studies, I wasn't aware that the eight handled the exposed plates at any given time, especially all at once in the grove. What are the sources for this account? Also, during the translation of the book, the video shows Joseph with the plates next to the hat, and that he is referencing the plates while merely peering into the hat. What sources can I find that the plates were present at the table during translation? I thought the plates were covered and elsewhere during this process? Thanks for any information you might be able to offer.
Thank you for your comment. There are many accounts of the eight witnesses, the primary one of course being the actual testimony written and published in the Book of Mormon itself. Take a look at this page from Mormonr.org about the witnesses. There is a section titled "Statements of reaffirmation from the eleven witnesses" That contains many first and secondhand accounts all with footnote references and dates. Regarding translation, again there are many accounts. The primary source for the representation in the video I believe comes from the account of Lucy Mac Smith stating that Joseph used interpreters and sometimes a seer stone to translate. We don't know exactly how things looked or were set up, but from the various accounts we know that peering into a hat with the seer stone or perhaps the Urim and Thummim inside was sometimes the method employed. The Joseph Smith Papers website is an excellent source for original documents. I suggest starting with this overview: www.josephsmithpapers.org/intro/introduction-to-documents-volume-1-july-1828-june-1831
We millions say they believe the bible to be the word of God but how many REALLY do 100 percent because there are a lot of weird miricles in the bible like a donkey talking and a rod turning into a snake etc I believe the bible to be the word of God because i pray every day Repent And seek the Holy Spirit to help me and i believe the book of mormon the same way
Joseph Smith is the prophet of the restitution of all things spoken of by all the Holy prophets and The Book of Mormon is what it purports to be, an ancient Egyptian record of the time only existing during that one moment in time when the Greek's, Egyptian's and Hebrews had an alliance. Joseph Smith didn't know that he was translating word for word Egyptian into English, but we have the evidence today and another testimony from Dr. Sami Hanna! That record is a Semitic record in every detail.
The golden plates are a similitude of Jesus Christ. Both are long lasting/immortal and both have been returned to our Heavenly Father. We have witness and records of their existence.
Critic's might say, "Oh, it's convenient that the plates have been taken back" but could not the argument be made about a resurrected Savour? Why isn't he here now with us, since his immortal?
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:29)
What movie are the movie clips from this episode?
Scripture Central filmed them for this episode. New, unique, and never before seen. :)
@@RichF245 Thank you so much. I have thoroughly enjoyed this series. This was one of my favorite episodes. But all of the episodes have been intriguing and educational. Thank you again.
Beautiful work! Thank you brother
Thanks for watching!
The Lord declared, “I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write” (Ether 3:24). These stones, the Urim and Thumin, were handed down to each seer in the Book of Mormon, and lastly were given to Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni, the last seer who possessed them.
31:00. That man was the Messenger who Joseph, Oliver and David saw on the road on a wagonride from Harmony. When asked if he wanted a ride he said "No, I'm going to *_CUMORAH_* !"
Running with 200 lbs. 🤔🤓 Amazing!!!!
Felicitaciones, buen trabajo
Gracias
How come Emma Smith did not see and touch the Gold Plates
Perfect!
How could Joseph possibly run from those chasing him with gold plates that had to weigh at least 40-50 lbs. Were the “golden” plates really gold?
He was a farm boy accustomed to hard work. Army special forces and Navy Seals do it all the time. The plates were likely a gold alloy to be stronger yet inscribable.
The composition of the plates is a topic of interest for many people and most scholars agree that they were likely not made of pure gold. We have an excellent article about that here: scripturecentral.org/evidence/composition-of-the-plates
No they were not actually gold, but were gold in appearance.
Don't forget he also had a bad leg. It never happened!
Just to add to minute 32, the accounts all differ. Some say the plates were shown to them at somebody’s home (JS‘s?), one of the three witnesses said in a field, others said in the woods 🤷🏻♀️
The accounts do have differences. This is one of the challenges of history. People report things differently especially over the course of their lives. This is why it is so important to look at all accounts to understand what really happened.
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial>>> No …this is because everything the LDS church has ever claimed, in these multiple confusing accounts, are totally contradictory, AND ☝️ have never ever been verified by ‘Expert Witnesses’ in an official Court-of-Law inquiry, before any Judges and Juries, ever. Mere ‘claims’ of validity mean nothing, when compared to the stricter requirements for presentation in the United States Court system.
BUT ☝️, discover the Shocking and Amazing FACTS surrounding the higher quality of Evidence which the True Researchers have proven, concerning the Authentic Stories of the Holy Bible as revealed in this landmark book (and updated for 2018 ,,,)
>>> Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell & Sean McDowell, PhD.
My question is, can I become a god one day?
All 3 witnesses were "dissenters" excommunicted or left the church having lost confidence in Joseph...
It is true that all three witnesses left the church over differences with Joseph, but not one of them ever denied what they saw (although many tried to get them to). Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery came back to the Church later in life.
The missing pieces are in the Grand Canyon, AZ ✨️
Bobby! Cindy!
Is this avaliable in spanish? And if so, how can I find it?
We have started to release them fully dubbed in Spanish on the Central de las Escrituras channel. Episode one is currently online
There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there is perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.
Thank you for producing the witnesses re-enactment. Also, I would like to add my witness that the Book of Mormon is a true record that testify the divinity of Heavenly Father and His son Jesus Christ. I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and was an instrument in translating the ancient record by the power of the Holy Ghost. I know also that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is God's kingdom here on earth. I so testify these things to be true in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Thanks for sharing that.
Thanks for taking the time to watch and for sharing your testimony!
An observation that I find interesting is that LDS members base belief on a personal testimony or feeling. In Nicene Christianity reliance on scripture is paramount to personal feelings.
This idea of gaining a personal witness comes from the scriptures. Of course the scripture in James 1:5 is the most often quoted "let him ask of God", but there are many others such as Matthew 21:22 "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.", Philippians 4:6 "...but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.", etc. Prayer and seeking guidance from God is the way in which we can more fully understand his word as written in scripture, and answers often come through a combination of prayer and study.
Yes, but what do you do when scriptural integrity weakens? When scripture gets translated over and over and is reinterpreted over centuries either accidentally or worse, on purpose? Best bet to rely on communication from a divine and loving Father who is there waiting for us to ask, knock and seek His pure truths.
Does anyone else see the man wearing a white suit in the back? 8:51
Creeeeepy. But not really.
@@thescottchristopher It's there!! between the scholars, he is walking on the farm o whatever that is
@@octaviobottari2013 No, i just meant it's not really creepy, but yes i do see him
there wouldnt be more believers if God showed the plates to more people? r u sure about that? I wonder the reasoning behind that idea in a video thats showing extra witnesses beyond the 11 as a means of boosting belief
I don't think there would. Remember the people in Jerusalem had Jesus there with him, they saw miracles, yet so many still chose not to believe, and they crucified him. The same happened in the Book of Mormon when despite signs from heaven and miracles being performed they set aside a day to kill the believers if the sign of Christ's birth did not come. When it did, they fell to the earth with fear because they realized the prophecy had been fulfilled. Most then repented and were baptized. God will not take away people's opportunity to choose for themselves or exercise faith.
It's a good question you ask Ally. I've thought about this before. I believe Heavenly Father is cautious in how much evidence He puts out there. If the evidence was so strong that all but the bitterest critics had to agree of the authenticity of any point of belief, then the agency of mankind is compromised. He will not force anyone to believe, but give just enough evidence to confirm the belief that already was in the heart. But if people do not exercise their faith to read, ponder and pray, they can choose to not believe and dismiss the evidence believers see.
Well Laman and Lemuel saw an angel, felt God's power, and heard the voice of the Lord and they still turned out the way they did. So, 🤷♀️ Those who choose the things of the world over Christ will deny the authenticity of what they've seen, heard, and felt.
At around 23 min, there is a mistake. Martin Harris never touched or saw the plates. He only saw them with his „spiritual eyes“ and then he mentioned something like seeing them like a city through a mountain. Knowing that they are there, but not actually seeing them with his eyes.
Actually it's not a mistake. Martin gave many accounts of the plates and especially later in his life. Although the accounts differ in details it is important to remember who they come from. Several of the accounts were given by those who were trying to discount the witnesses and their actually seeing the plates. If you take all the accounts together especially those later in Martin's life directly from him he reaffirmed time and again that he had seen the plates for real. He would say things like "Do you see this hand, just as surely as you see my hand, I saw the plates." There is no doubt that he was trying to emphasize the reality of his experience. He also testified in several accounts that he did actually handle the plates. We do not know on what occasion, but it was likely sometime during translation and in the same way as did Joseph's family, feeling them or hefting them while they were covered. The account that mentions spiritual eyes is often used to discredit Martin but if you read all the accounts they make it clear. Here is an excellent article with 10 or so of the statements from Martin: witnessesofthebookofmormon.org/three-witnesses/martin-harris/statements/
Did they all see the plates with the spiritual eyes, like Cowdery and David Whitmer later stated they did, or did they physically see them unlike the other two?
This is such an old and tired argument against the witnesses testimonies. It was actually Martin Harris that used the term "Spiritual Eyes", none of the other witnesses used this language to describe the experience. Martin afterwards amended his testimony (on many occasions) clarifying that although it was a spiritual experience to hear the voice of God, and see an angel, he saw the plates just as plain as you see anything. There is an excellent explanation of this here: mormonr.org/qnas/0Eiiyt#q-pP4aSOKyirLdDvDAmlra
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial I completely understand you ARE an apologetic organization, BUT I will have to disagree with you 100%. Martin Harris stated MANY times, and in different words that he never saw the Book of Mormon, NOR did the other 2 witnesses. They all saw within a vision only.
Joseph took Martin off to the side from Whitmer and Cowdery, and took Smith several attempts to guide Harris in his vision.
I have a book in the works, and source FAIR Mormon as well, who touched on this, AND I also use your site as an alternative view of what is truth, NOT sanitized apologetic.
“But did you see them [plates] with your natural, your bodily eyes, just as you see this pencil-case in my hand? Now say no or yes to this.” Martin answered, “I did not see them as I do that pencil-case, yet I saw them with the eye of faith; I saw them just
as distinctly as I see anything around me, though at the time they were covered over with a cloth.”
““Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?” According to Gilbert, Harris “looked down for an instant, raised his eyes up, and said, ‘No, I saw them with a spiritual eye.’”
David Whitmer "In regards to my testimony to the visitation of the angel, who declared to us three witnesses that the Book of Mormon is true, I have this to say: Of course we were in the spirit when we had the view, for no man can behold the face of an angel, except in a spiritual view, but 'we were in the body also, and everything was as natural to us, as it is at any time."
I provided those from FAIR, I play fair ;) Unfortunately the LDS church does not. I WAS a member for over 20 years, a RM, and held several callings within teaching positions. I know what was, is and is not taught by the church, I am not some never Mormon who is clueless and get their information from "anti Mormon" sites.
www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_David_Whitmer_believe_his_witness_experience_was_%22only_a_vision%22%3F
www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Book_of_Mormon/Witnesses/%22Eye_of_Faith%22_and_%22Spiritual_Eye%22_statements_by_Martin_Harris
We normally don't allow links in comments but yours were allowed because they show the problem with your argument very well. It is easy to take things out of context when it comes to historical accounts and it is also easy (as you have noted) to put too much emphasis on only the accounts that fit our worldview. The same article you reference with these quotes also says the following: "Some wish to make it appear as though the statements made by Martin Harris about the Three Witnesses’ manifestation discount its reality. Doing so pulls Harris’ statements out of their proper context..." If we go on to read all the accounts, look at all the evidence, it becomes very clear that not only Martin, but any of the other 20 witnesses of the gold plates had no doubt as to what they saw. We encourage everyone to study all the sources. As an apologetic organization we are often accused of ignoring information, but I assure you that is not the case. We focus on the whole picture. You won't find people who are more familiar with all the nitty gritty details. Take for example Don Bradley, who if you haven't watched his interviews with Stephen Jones, they will maybe give you an idea of the depth of searching for truth that happens in this organization. ruclips.net/video/SNIOmH7RV2I/видео.htmlsi=kqrGB5WD3hKtPuQN
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial I commented with FAIR LDS links, which I assume would be fair game since it is PRO LDS, and one of their apologetic groups, like yourselves.
Yes I read on, I assumed you would also know what followed, I more than assumed, I am sure you knew.
The point I was making is Harris is on record making many statements in different words, and thus was not taken out of context, or was mistaken.
You do address Harris’ comments, but you don’t touch on the statements made by Davis Whitmer of the same nature of seeing the assumed plates.
Thank you for reading my comments, and replying,
Smith did NOT tell Stoal that he had gone for the plates.. Smith took Stoals horse and carriage, and took off with Emma to “dig up the playes”. Stoal was freaking out. We get this directly from Lucy Mack Smith
Your information is not entirely correct. Joseph actually took Joseph Knight Senior's wagon to get the plates, but he did go with Emma as you've said. The plates were hidden in a log for a time until they were brought to the Smith home. This can be found in Lucy Mack's journal. She mentions that others were there but does not mention Stoal by name. The details of Josiah Stoal comes from his own account and a letter to Joseph Smith from Martha Campbell. Here are links to those references:
Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1844-1845, Page [6], bk. 5, p. [6], bk. 5, The Joseph Smith Papers, www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1844-1845/60
mormonr.org/qnas/0Eiiyt/book_of_mormon_witnesses/research#re-hugASb-Ka1Ghb
mormonr.org/qnas/0Eiiyt/book_of_mormon_witnesses/research#re-nvGFqb-6tQMgb
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial My bad you are correct, I had meant to say Knight Sr, Not Stoal/Stowell.
Both had come to town together at the same time, BUT it was Knight Sr who had his horse and buggy STOLEN by Joseph, Lucy tells us herself that Knight Sr stated his horse and carriage were stolen, and that she knew that Joseph and Emma had taken it, without his knowledge.
Weather I got the right person by name, the event does not change, nor the fact that Smith did not "borrow" Knight's horse and carriage, but took them without permission and his knowledge.
BUT thank you for clarifying my mistaken on whom was whom.
I don't believe in Mormonism, but I enjoy watching this series. I think there is room among serious scholars for a theory that the plates did indeed exist. That Joseph Smith Jr. made them or had them made. Likely not of gold, but brass/copper or other metal and possibly gold plated. Not sure. If I had to guess I would say they didn't exist, but there is definitely a chance they could have. Having said that, even if they did exist, I dont believe reformed Egyptian was ever a language. Nice documentaries tho, great series.
Glad you enjoy watching it!
Do we know what the last day was that the plates were seen? I'm guess what I'm asking is, what is the last known interaction with the plates?
We don't know.
When according to arrangements the messenger called for them I delivered them up to him and he has them in his charge until this day being the second of May one thousand eight hundred and thirty eight
@@mareekate7039 that's interesting. So Joseph had them in his possession for 8+ years after the printing of the book of Mormon.
@@rclv428 does it mean this is the date he is writing this statement...because ...I just read he returned the plates 21months after 1827 upon receiving plates
You sent me on a hunt😋
Me too from Philippines the only British member here in cebu lsland
Great podcast of course the book of mormon has to be from God sadly a lot of people arnt prepared to understand how important it is to find out if God is still speaking to us through the book of mormon and our prophet Now is the time to prepare to meet God
Charles Manson's followers never denied their testimony either
I keep getting unsubscribed. When I resubscribe it flashes 'error.'
Seen this happen on channels that RUclips is not happy with, but why this channel?
Love how the dude says "at" with the most Utah accent in the world.
I love the research and knowledge that is shared here. I just wish there were some women on your panel.
Well, if they were as qualified as these men, then they probably would have.
Why can one not major in the book of Mormon at BYU or any other LDS school. If the book of Mormon is an actual history why not?
At BYU there are classes just about the Book of Mormon. However the religion major is more wholistic. Anyone who wishes to discuss theology in academic circles has to be learned in many books of scripture even if they focus their study on the Book of Mormon. Every student who attends BYU technically graduates with a minor in religion, though the honor is not actually awarded. There is also a Masters of Religion offered as well.
But not in the book of Mormon academia or history or geography or archeology, right . Book of Mormon in a religious class is different than studying the book of Mormon like the Bible is studied in the ancient studies department.
Like is discussed in the nahom follies read discussion.
What about Sydney Rigdon and the Spalding manuscript?
It sounds like you're asking about the theory that Sidney Rigdon was somehow connected to a manuscript written by Solomon Spalding, sometimes called the "Spalding Manuscript." This theory involves claims that the Book of Mormon was derived from Spalding's work through Rigdon's involvement.
Solomon Spalding was a former minister who wrote an unpublished manuscript called "Manuscript, Found." After his death in 1816, the manuscript went missing. Some people later alleged that this manuscript found its way to Sidney Rigdon, who then used it as a source for the Book of Mormon.
Sidney Rigdon was an early leader in the Latter-day Saint movement who joined the Church after the Book of Mormon was published. Skeptics of the Church have proposed that Rigdon collaborated with Joseph Smith, using Spalding's manuscript to create the Book of Mormon.
However, the majority of historical scholars, including non-LDS scholars, have found little credible evidence to support this theory. Key points that challenge the theory include:
Manuscript Recovery: The "Manuscript, Found" was eventually discovered and is nothing like the Book of Mormon.
Timelines and Relationships: Historical records don’t show that Rigdon had any connection with Joseph Smith or the manuscript before its publication.
Witness Testimonies: The Eight Witnesses and the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon consistently maintained their testimonies of the divine origins of the book, even under duress and despite leaving the Church for various reasons.
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