That end credit scene at the end of IW made it seem like she would play a key part in Endgame lmao It was literally just a shoehorn to say "she exists, please clap"
@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdomWomen don't support Superhero movies. And that's the truth. So what's the point of adding Women superhero in MCU? Also itvwas because of Male superheroes MCU became this huge.
@@hemantks4353 It was because of good movies that the MCU reached the height that it did. Dude, if the movies are still good, even if they star women, men would still support it. Forget "trying to appeal a certain demographics", give a good movie, anyone would appreciate it.
Hela made an immediate impact with her 1st scene to show how serious she was when she catches Thor's hammer & SHATTERS it! From then on, the audience has sat up in their seats to know she's dangerous. Thanos had a bit of that too when the 1st thing audiences saw him do was take the strongest Marvel powerhouse The Hulk, and break his nose, beat him alone, & do it in under a minute. It may not be all about set up, but you better damn well showcase up front why your villain is to be feared.
Can we just say though the Hela we got in the movie didn’t come close to the comics. She was ruthless and all powerful. And when she teamed up with Thanos that was scary. I like Ragnarok but just wanted to say even a movie as good as that one had flaws. The movies they’re making now are just not interesting. Nobody cares about the characters they’re trying to put in front of us.
How was it trash when the movie made a billion? That makes absolutely no sense. Listen just because you didn't like it. Doesn't mean the rest of us didn't like it. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but out of the two movies, I'll take Captain Marvel over The Marvels though the marvels wasn't a bad movie
Marvel broke it's core proposal that Kevin feigi told the fans a while ago. "You don't have to watch the Marvel TV shows to understand what is going on in the movies." Looks like the Marvel shows are homework to understand who these "new" people are.
I came to John camera to get unbiased reporting of box office numbers yet I STILL can’t avoid these grifters from Ryan Kinel, Gamers and Geeks, Yellowflash…
Mmm, Star Wars 9 and Thor Lord of Thunder gave me only a hint of the taste of bile in my throat. It was Nick Fury in The Marvels yelling, "BLACK GIRL MAGIC!" that had me actually tasting bile and giving me Irritable Bowel Syndrome for a week where I called it quits on Disney. Afterwards, thankfully a friend steered me to the series 1883 and I found that incredible writing and acting still does exist. If you would like to cleanse your palate after The Marvels and Star Wars, I suggest watching just the first four minutes of EP 1 of 1883. I had to binge watch the entire season with Sam Elliot, Faith Hill, Tim McGraw and Isabel May with cameos by Tom Hanks and Billy Bob Thornton just to find out more. Then I binged on 1923 with Harrison Ford and Yellowstone with Kevin Costner to round out the trilogy. Now? Disney is only an occasional nightmare of mine.
1. Nobody likes Captain Marvel 2. Two Co stars are in shows not everyone wants to watch 3. General interest for the mcu is low 4. It wasn’t great People are trying so hard to make it sound like it was everything else that made this movie fail instead of why it ACTUALLY failed.
I think you have a point with 3 and 4, but 2? Not so much. The early movies introduced new characters all the time. It doesn't matter that they were on streaming shows, the problem was in the writing. They needed to be handled better for those who were unfamiliar with them.
This is the same thing that Lucus Films did with Ashoka. Most people don't know the crew from rebels. And none of them were ever introduced to the audience. Some of us knew them, but not all. And because of that a lot of people tuned out. TV, cartoons, comic books, and game charters cannot transfer to the big screens without good character development. Disney Marvel/Lucus are losing the audience so fast I don't think they will ever get them back. They've lost the fans and casual viewers trust.
I don’t mind them doing inside ballpark stories on Disney plus, just don’t do that for a cinematic movie where I’m paying $$25 for ticket + drinks + snacks = around $50. When people are paying that kind of money you need to tell a story most of the audiences will enjoy AND understand.
Even the people who have Disney+ don't like these character, some hate them. Captain Marvel 1 was ONLY successful because it was in-between two must see movies.
Marvel's promotion team really dropped the ball with their short sided strategy and i think it played a big part in Marvel's downfall. They tried to sell Multiverse of Madness in a way that wasn't a true representation of the movie and it led to a lot of disappointment. Sure it helped MoM make more money than it would've done without that deception, but in the long run it really harmed MCU. And that's just one example of many similar short sided promotion strategies. I mean they deffinetly tried to do the same thing with The Marvels. That final trailers with the o.g. Avengers and Thanos was just desperate and this time people just saw through it.
People forget Captain Marvel came out at the climax of the Infinity Saga. Howard the Duck 2 would've made 800m if people thought it was going to have the next Infinity stone in it. The first movie over performed because of the timing and circumstances of the MCU
I believe the fans just want the mainstream characters for the movies and all the the b tier should stick to cameos, limited runs & Disney+. Basiclly follow the way comic books put out their books.. The main characters have an ongoing series and the less known have limited runs.
He sure is part of the reason for the mismanagement. But then who is competing with Marvels? No one. There is nothing Disney can look at and say, "Why are they doing better than us?" Marvel buying X-Men protected them from competition. DC is stuck with fake Superman stories. The day DC figures out what Superman is really about, would be the day Marvel begin to Panic.
The only reason to the first one success was the false premise that it was needed to understand end game, nothing else. The movie was pure trash and was the movie that started marvel decline into the pandeverse. Marvel today has embrace the pandeverse and it shows, flop after flop, I wonder how many flops can Disney afford.
not completely, this movie was made during the Bob Chapek Era. Movies after 2024 are Feige production movies. Hence why he pulled Cap 4 and the Daredevil series back to work on them. Under chapek the movies and shows suffered a lot taking away creative power from Feige.
The best show-movie tie in was in Agents of SHIELD. The agents discovered the Hydra base and sent it to the Avengers. Opening scene in Age of Ultron they raided the base. You didn't have to see the show but it was a nice detail because that aired right before the movie came out.
What I find most interesting is how the movie bombed worldwide. The entire planet lost interest in Marvel movies. How did that happen so quickly? It's a like a #1 rated TV show getting cancelled two years later.
Hey, Disney. You need to make your characters interesting with real story arcs before we get invested in your movies. This is one of the reasons why I like the MCU movies with Tony Stark. He had a real character arc. You see him as a playboy, Bruce Wayne type. His character suddenly got dark when he learned how his parents got killed. You then got into the third act as he became the person who saved the universe.
Monica should have had a cameo in the Ms. Marvel show (She could have even been related to the brother's wife) before this movie came out. The TV characters should team up before they hit the big screen. Then show up for the main event. Even if it was just those two.
Totally agree there's just not much stake in the MCU right now, and it's hard to get excited for new projects (except Deadpool 3, will will be a crazy ride!)
Bringing in tv characters whom the audience knew nothing about still could have worked. They had good ideas but failed to execute them properly. The tone of the movie was wrong. It should have been on par with Captain America Winter Soldier or The Eternals. More serious instead of leaning to kiddie. They had the drama between Carol and Monica, the guilt Carol felt for her actions, the could have done a better job with the villain and shown the Kree suffering and just given everything more weight. The movie was brought down to Kamalas level in terms of tone instead of elevating that character to be in more serious movies. This should have been a heavy movie with Kamala being the light hearted character that helps bring Carol and Monica back together and mend that relationship while dealing with this threat that forced them together. Damn it I hate it when a movie has the right ideas or close to it but fails to execute them properly. This, like Black Widow, could have been a movie that could have elevated the game just like Winter Soldier. Of coirse that is just my opinion
It was the wrong story to tell imo. I think a problem with captain Marvel is as a viewer i have no connection with her or know who she is in the mcu. Like what does she do? just fly between planets and protect skrulls? What was she doing between every since her very first introduction? There's an entire movie missing between the first captain Marvel and the 2nd one.
disagree completely, Ant man wasn't great but it is a masterpiece next to this piece of crap, I wanted to walk out, unfunny made no sense, worst MCU movie ever made, disrespectfully bad if it made 200m it was 200m more than deserved.
I think John is missing the point of people not seeing it. It’s not because people didn’t watch the Disney+ stuff. It’s because the mainstream moviegoer is not interested in Ms Marvel, Captain Marvel or Monica Rambeau. The Captain Marvel movie made a lot of money because it was shoehorned in between infinity war and endgame and was ok, but didn’t excite the average moviegoer like the marvel a-list characters do. Believe me, if they had the same writers, same concepts, same marketing, same strikes going on and the movie had Storm, Rogue and Cyclops… it would’ve done bank.
Idk I would have to disagree... They said that the avengers were not "mainstream" enough to make movies about but here we are 😂 They definitely need to revamp though but there are definitely external factors and hand and Disney + isn't helping. The movie was literally 10 times better than the first one 😂 But it's 60% on rotten tomatoes and the first one has 80% 🤔 Like make it make sense haha
@@benm5970 All movies at the height of the infinity saga did well due to the popularity of the MCU. If a Captain marvel movie came out now outside of the infinity saga, it probably wouldn’t do as well… hold up… a captain marvel movie did come out that wasn’t shoehorned in the infinity saga… it was called the Marvels. Please have several seats. The data has presented itself. Be mad at facts if you want.
When she hulk was going, a lot of fans said how bad it was. I’ve been watching this show for a decade, even during the AMC days, but you kept on defending She Hulk and even insulted some of the fans who criticized it. So I feel its a bit hypocritical to now tell us its bad when I remember the tone was very different.
@@xonfire1 Christ, it's not enough that the man ultimately agreed with you, now he's a hypocrite because it took him too many episodes to do so? I see why so many youtubers just start ignoring their comment sections...
One thing I've been thinking about is the post endgame era had a big hole when chadwick boseman passed. I feel like black panther was supposed to be the main character of this phase and they had to pivot after that and they dont really know what theyre doing overall i think
Marvel doesnt care about Wakanda. The last thing they need is pro black movies. Took them 5 years to put out the movie after the first while force feeding us Ant. They own too many characters and trying to do everything themselves and trashing the whole joint. Look at Kang, they demolish his character because he is black. Yes, I think there is a conspiracy in Disney to under represent Black characters. In a movie here the Black character should be front and center with real black motivation, they undermine the story trying to whiten it. That is why people are not interested in Kang Dynasty. I will watch Foundation series over Kang Dynasty.
@@cmleibenguth Did they create the Characters or do they own the rights to them? Last time I checked, the creators are dead. My point is that with all the characters in one company's hands, the competition is barely there so we get deminishing quality of content and propaganda.
Nah that's a good thing. Hollywood'll be forced to step up and US audiences get a taste of cultures outside of their own. Just get used to the subtitles.
Taking the hindsight is 20/20 view here, but a big factor to the box office failure is they told the wrong story. What do audiences want from the MCU? X-Men!! What Carol Danvers story involves an X-Men character? Rogue!! Before she was an X-Man, she stole Captain Marvel’s powers. If the MCU pulled from this story, there would’ve been a different conversation in this video.
I didn’t like Captain Marvel, I thought Rambeau was the a nothing part of Wandavision, and I haven’t seen Ms Marvel or Secret Invasion. I have absolutely no investment in the Marvels and just don’t want to see it.
AOS was good, i remembered that series finale when they jumping through different dimensions they mentioned the villians they said we can't go back to their time bc its being attacked. They was referring to Thanos and infinity wars!
Obviously Marvel being subpar and the TV characters turning people away are factors, but the biggest reason no one wanted to go to this is the first movie is bad and Brie Larson is an unlikeable human playing an unlikeable character so a lot of people don't care to support it. I've seen every single Marvel movie from Iron Man 1 to Guardians 3 in theaters and this one I just skipped because I couldn't care less about Captain Marvel.
I honestly think people are remembering MCU phase 2 and 3 for being better than it actually was. We had some great movies. But for me Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, Guardians 2, Ant Man 2, Thor 2, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain Marvel and Spider-Man: Far from Home were pretty underwhelming. I think take them out of the build up to Thanos and people would see just how average they are as movies. Just my opinion.
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy people didn't see this movie because it had Marvel character from Disney+. If people didn't feel the need to watch every Marvel film to understand an Avengers movie, then why do they feel the need to watch Disney+ Marvel shows to understand what is going on in The Marvels. The logic just doesn't make much sense, especially when most of Disney+ Marvel shows are very self-contained stories.
I agree with you, John, but I also disagree about you saying the TV characters cannot make it to the big screen. We just haven’t had a really good set up for these characters to earn their big screen appearance, and that I do agree in Agents of Shield start changing from it, not being involved in the MCU towards the last seasons of the show.
Mmm, Star Wars 9 and Thor LaT gave me only a hint of the taste of bile in my throat. It was Nick Fury in The Marvels yelling, "BLACK GIRL MAGIC!" that had me actually tasting bile and giving me Irritable Bowel Syndrome for a week where I called it quits on Disney. Afterwards, thankfully a friend steered me to the series 1883 and I found that incredible writing and acting still does exist. If you would like to cleanse your palate after The Marvels and Star Wars, I suggest watching just the first four minutes of EP 1 of 1883. I had to binge watch the entire season with Sam Elliot, Faith Hill, Tim McGraw and Isabel May with cameos by Tom Hanks and Billy Bob Thornton just to find out more. Then I binged on 1923 with Harrison Ford and Yellowstone with Kevin Costner to round out the trilogy. Now? Disney is only an occasional nightmare of mine.
This is probably Bob Chapeks fault as he was trying to go full ham on the streaming wars, so he probably forced Feige to make the movie and tv stories intertwine together. Bob was betting on that people would watch Disney+ before they go to the movies. Only problem is the marvel tv series has been bad except for Wandavision
These corporations forget that many times “Less is more”. Maybe if they only did one MCU show and 1-2 movies per year the quality would improve because they can devote far more resources and time into making them awesome. One billion dollar movie is better than 3 movies combined barely making a billion. Like John always says “The MCU movies used to be an event”.
It's also pretty telling that in 2023, the most popular superhero content on Disney Plus in Asia has been a Korean show called Moving. And it's been getting rave reviews and sweeping awards left and right.
FNAF and Meg 2 are movies that delivered what they promised. People expect something big from Marvel especially with the high budgets yet the products look like they were made for Disney +.
As an avid MCU fan, I am very sad to see the MCU in this state.....the mcu movies, particularly within the first 3 phases, were events unto themselves.....coming out roughly about once every months, perhaps twice a year at the earlier stages, it gave audiences, especially myself, done thing to look forward to ....something to look forward to.....throughout life's downsides, the fact we have a pleasant, good, MCU movie coming out in several months, gave me something to root for, even. The serialized structure , especially complemented with great storytelling and care, in the details of the universe they created, kept us invested. I'm sad to see the MCU in it's state. I still look forward to the projects. I saw Marvels twice - but unfortunately, to practically empty theatres. As I watched the D+ shows and the theatrical movies, I can't help but feel that the MCU has (almost) lost it's fans. It's all over the place. There seems to be an absent narrative thread throughout the projects , which was wonderfully woven though phases 1 to 3. The infinity saga had beautiful characters in the 6 core avengers, and the wonderful dynamic between tony stark and Steve Rogers, played beautifully by Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr, anchored the franchise. People rooted for these 2, especially RDJ. Nowadays they don't have that core group that anchors the franchise. Conceptually, they have very very huge concepts such as Gods and Kang and Egyptology and Superhuman governance and Celestials, that really don't matter, because there's no consequence. Anyone remembers Hercules? What's the follow up with him? What about Kit Harrington's Black Knight and the Ebony Blade? Each entry in the MCU, whether it's a tv series or a theatrical project, introduced big powerful concepts that could, theoretically hold its own phase. You can spent a phase just talking about the celestials and the eternals. You can spent a phase talking about how does the different omnipotent concepts and being wove into the MCU - touching on the Greek gods, the Roman gods, the Egyptian gods etc. You can spent one phase just talking about non western dimensions and storylines (shang chi) and how it ties into the present 'western' MCU You can spend a phase dealing with superhuman control and legislation and Superhuman rights in a serious manner (she hulk) You can spend building stories within the quantum realm - delve into that universe and explore the stories that can be told there You can talk about the interaction between gods and mortals and explore tales and myths and legends in one phase. Marvel Studios can do a deep dive and take their time with their phases, even with D+. But instead every movie and every project is an introduction to a gigantic concept which easily gets brushed off or glossed over. Audiences lose that feeling of investedness. And when that investment is gone, no one watches.
I honestly think they mishandled what to do with Disney Plus. I’m not saying that putting original content on Disney plus was wrong but I think Disney plus was made to make stuff like the Guardians holiday special, what if and so on. They’re fun but also side stories. Introduce your new characters that are important to the bigger picture on the big screen. Things like Moon Knight, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, both seasons of Loki all were good shows but would’ve worked better as movies. Someone told me the other day that Loki introduced the plot point and the villain if it’s next big saga on Disney plus. That should’ve been a movie event. Absolutely nothing wrong with 3 good movies that moves the real narrative forward and 1 or 2 side stories on Disney plus a year.
It shows to prove that nothing lasts forever. Sometime in the far future, you will see the Statue of Liberty becoming reduced to rubble. The almighty MCU has started to descend.
I'll be honest, I didn't think The Marvels was that bad. It wasn't amazing, but it was breezy entertainment. I just think it suffered the consequences of too much mediocre MCU content leading up to it and it didn't have the must see factor of the previous Captain Marvel film. Its certainly very odd to watch this movie after having watched Secret Invasion. MCU right now needs a slew of Shang-Chi, NWH level acclaimed films/tv shows to break out of this spiral.
Subpar content, bad marketing/press, social media situations, coming off a bad show in secret invasion and ok first movie regardless if loki was good they was concurrent to each other so nobody knew how itd play out yet. This movie was set up to fail.
all this focus on large ramifications on the larger universe instead of just the focus being on the movie being made is a big part of the problem who cares about connections and crossovers when your not invested or even really care about the characters onscreen.....and when almost everything is played for a joke and the default personality for most of these characters contrary to the comics is quippy and snarky.....these movies have alot of issues imo.
I stand by that, Captain Marvel has been a poor character from the start. Her first movie was not good, and the character was played so emotionless, on purpose (not all Brie Larson's fault), that by the end, you practically felt nothing for her. I won't dispute the negativity or sexism ect... that happened during that time... but all I can say is, I walked away from that movie feeling nothing for her (though I've always had a thing for Annette Bening, so that was a lovely surprise). I believe it only made over a billion dollars because of the MCU hype train, and the media controversy it had... But as a solo movie, it never deserved it. Then her only other Marvel appearance was short at best, and cringe at worst in Endgame. She never earned her popularity. Then fast forward to the Marvels, and everything said about using the Disney+ series is true. Not everyone watched them, and they didn't even fit well overall into the story. So you take a mix of a character that never earned her popularity, mixed with a versions of a side character in a TV show that few watched, and a main character of a different TV show that few watched, with a dash of a pretty poor plot, with a weak villian... Mixed in with a lot of dissatisfaction with the MCU since Endgame... And you get The Marvels situation. Very little of this is on the actors themselves. It's all from bad writing and bad decision making from the executives who didn't know how to handle the character in the first place.
They should have built on the character we had after endgame instead of introducing so many new ones and dropping so many shows on D+. That really diluted the brand and caused people to just give up on marvel content all together. Disney needs to get Bob Iger and his crew out and start doing some serious planning for the rest of phase 5. Sadly however I don’t think Iger will face any consequences for his mistakes (see chapek) and Disney will be down for the rest of the decade until the pendulum swings back again in the 2030s
Guys this isn’t different from the comics. EVERYBODY is not going to like EVERYTHING that comes out. With all the characters that marvel has, there were series of comic books that I had no interest in reading. The movies are no different. The “run” people keep talking about had a lot of to do with the story about characters that were very popular. Just think everybody is not going to gravitate to some of these “other” heroes.
Disney did the same thing to Marvel that they did with Star Wars, quantity over quality sucking every dollar out they could with what felt like 0 regard for quality of the content. In addition to pushing their social agenda. Fans thankfully have demonstrated their disapproval with sales. Both franchises went downhill as soon as Disney got their claws into them. Unfortunate.
Anytime John pushes back against marvel he has to repeatedly state he’s not a hater lol. It’s unfortunate he can’t just give his opinion. The man has supported marvel throughout.
*The first Capt. Marvel was lucky to be sandwich by 2 huge MCU movies*
That end credit scene at the end of IW made it seem like she would play a key part in Endgame lmao
It was literally just a shoehorn to say "she exists, please clap"
Uh, what about Ant Man And The Wasp?
@@benm5970Antman was not in 2019. They didn't Marketed as must watch before Endgame
@@hemantks4353
It was still between Infinity War and Endgame
The zombie lie that won't die.
Bob Iger is still blaming Disney's latest string of disasters on covid -_-
Glad it bombed, MCU needs to stop catering such a small audience that doesn’t support movies
Do you feel alienated by a woman, a Muslim Pakistani girl and a black woman, or by a simple bad movie?
I am not a woman, and I enjoyed it. I guess I don't count.
@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdomWomen don't support Superhero movies. And that's the truth. So what's the point of adding Women superhero in MCU? Also itvwas because of Male superheroes MCU became this huge.
@@spicymemes7458He said "Small audience". U come under that small audience. Every movie has a small audience
@@hemantks4353 It was because of good movies that the MCU reached the height that it did. Dude, if the movies are still good, even if they star women, men would still support it.
Forget "trying to appeal a certain demographics", give a good movie, anyone would appreciate it.
Hela made an immediate impact with her 1st scene to show how serious she was when she catches Thor's hammer & SHATTERS it! From then on, the audience has sat up in their seats to know she's dangerous. Thanos had a bit of that too when the 1st thing audiences saw him do was take the strongest Marvel powerhouse The Hulk, and break his nose, beat him alone, & do it in under a minute. It may not be all about set up, but you better damn well showcase up front why your villain is to be feared.
Can we just say though the Hela we got in the movie didn’t come close to the comics. She was ruthless and all powerful. And when she teamed up with Thanos that was scary. I like Ragnarok but just wanted to say even a movie as good as that one had flaws. The movies they’re making now are just not interesting. Nobody cares about the characters they’re trying to put in front of us.
I thought the first Captain Marvel was trash, so I definitely wasn’t going to see this one
Facts
The fact that people actually thought the first one was a legit "Billion dollar" film is crazy. 😂
@728Autos I mean, it literally made a billion dollars
How was it trash when the movie made a billion? That makes absolutely no sense. Listen just because you didn't like it. Doesn't mean the rest of us didn't like it. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but out of the two movies, I'll take Captain Marvel over The Marvels though the marvels wasn't a bad movie
@@728GTCaptain Marvel *IS* a billion dollar movie. People are entitled to their own opinions but not to their own facts.
Marvel broke it's core proposal that Kevin feigi told the fans a while ago. "You don't have to watch the Marvel TV shows to understand what is going on in the movies."
Looks like the Marvel shows are homework to understand who these "new" people are.
Even after Bob iger admitting that wokeness has ruined box office John campea still pretends like wokeness is not the main reason.
Barbie was the wokest movie of 2023 and it’s the most successful movie of 2023.
I came to John camera to get unbiased reporting of box office numbers yet I STILL can’t avoid these grifters from Ryan Kinel, Gamers and Geeks, Yellowflash…
No grown adult would actually use that word
Mmm, Star Wars 9 and Thor Lord of Thunder gave me only a hint of the taste of bile in my throat. It was Nick Fury in The Marvels yelling, "BLACK GIRL MAGIC!" that had me actually tasting bile and giving me Irritable Bowel Syndrome for a week where I called it quits on Disney.
Afterwards, thankfully a friend steered me to the series 1883 and I found that incredible writing and acting still does exist. If you would like to cleanse your palate after The Marvels and Star Wars, I suggest watching just the first four minutes of EP 1 of 1883. I had to binge watch the entire season with Sam Elliot, Faith Hill, Tim McGraw and Isabel May with cameos by Tom Hanks and Billy Bob Thornton just to find out more. Then I binged on 1923 with Harrison Ford and Yellowstone with Kevin Costner to round out the trilogy.
Now? Disney is only an occasional nightmare of mine.
1. Nobody likes Captain Marvel
2. Two Co stars are in shows not everyone wants to watch
3. General interest for the mcu is low
4. It wasn’t great
People are trying so hard to make it sound like it was everything else that made this movie fail instead of why it ACTUALLY failed.
Actually a lot of people like Captain Marvel
I think you have a point with 3 and 4, but 2? Not so much. The early movies introduced new characters all the time. It doesn't matter that they were on streaming shows, the problem was in the writing. They needed to be handled better for those who were unfamiliar with them.
@@benm5970Where? I don't see anywhere?
@@hemantks4353
Go on RT
This is the same thing that Lucus Films did with Ashoka. Most people don't know the crew from rebels. And none of them were ever introduced to the audience. Some of us knew them, but not all. And because of that a lot of people tuned out. TV, cartoons, comic books, and game charters cannot transfer to the big screens without good character development. Disney Marvel/Lucus are losing the audience so fast I don't think they will ever get them back. They've lost the fans and casual viewers trust.
I don’t mind them doing inside ballpark stories on Disney plus, just don’t do that for a cinematic movie where I’m paying $$25 for ticket + drinks + snacks = around $50. When people are paying that kind of money you need to tell a story most of the audiences will enjoy AND understand.
Exactly@@brucewilson3226
Black Adam is sitting somewhere with some tequila smiling
They should have stopped with Endgame
This movie lost at least $200M.
Not as bad as I thought it would be but there's absolutely no good reason for this film to have an Avengers film level kind of budget.
Decline in quality, and the audience they pander to couldn't care less.
Even the people who have Disney+ don't like these character, some hate them.
Captain Marvel 1 was ONLY successful because it was in-between two must see movies.
case in point: "Wish" totally flopped following The Marvels. all of Disney is in trouble
Marvel's promotion team really dropped the ball with their short sided strategy and i think it played a big part in Marvel's downfall. They tried to sell Multiverse of Madness in a way that wasn't a true representation of the movie and it led to a lot of disappointment. Sure it helped MoM make more money than it would've done without that deception, but in the long run it really harmed MCU. And that's just one example of many similar short sided promotion strategies.
I mean they deffinetly tried to do the same thing with The Marvels. That final trailers with the o.g. Avengers and Thanos was just desperate and this time people just saw through it.
Reminds me of Disney using early Xmen to sell Dark Phoenix
His comment about the celestials is spot on, that totally baffled me how Marvel dropped that into a movie and failed to mention it elsewhere.
You can practically delete that film in existence, and nothing will change in the MCU. It's baffling.
I’m sorry, but in no way was The Marvels better than Ant-man 3. You’re crazy for saying that.
Ant-man 3 definitely had better moments and premise … However the the overall picture 🙈
No one ever mentions that captain marvel is not a likable character
People forget Captain Marvel came out at the climax of the Infinity Saga. Howard the Duck 2 would've made 800m if people thought it was going to have the next Infinity stone in it. The first movie over performed because of the timing and circumstances of the MCU
I believe the fans just want the mainstream characters for the movies and all the the b tier should stick to cameos, limited runs & Disney+.
Basiclly follow the way comic books put out their books..
The main characters have an ongoing series and the less known have limited runs.
People showed up for GOTG Vol 3. Campea beating around the bush lol
How can this be? I mean miss marvel is the highest rated marvel show on rotten tomatoes 😂
John has been way too kind to this movie. It’s okay to be brutally honest; this is a mediocre film. The box office performance is deserved.
Or maybe he just has a different opinion than you
@@benm5970Box office accounts for collective opinion and just his opinion
Bob Iger is in Master Class? That's a class I won't pick. He's the reason why Disney is in the pot hole right now.
He sure is part of the reason for the mismanagement. But then who is competing with Marvels? No one. There is nothing Disney can look at and say, "Why are they doing better than us?" Marvel buying X-Men protected them from competition. DC is stuck with fake Superman stories. The day DC figures out what Superman is really about, would be the day Marvel begin to Panic.
Putting men down at every turn is to blame.
How?
@@benm5970by the fact that this film flopped
The only reason to the first one success was the false premise that it was needed to understand end game, nothing else. The movie was pure trash and was the movie that started marvel decline into the pandeverse. Marvel today has embrace the pandeverse and it shows, flop after flop, I wonder how many flops can Disney afford.
But tHe fIrsT oNe diD A billiOn DoLlaRs rEmEMbeR?🤣🤣🤣
The real burning question is... how many Black Adams is this? One-half?!? Three-fourths of a Black Adam??
Hela was fine in Ragnarok, but they totally forgot about her for literally half of that movie. Fun film, but poorly paced...
How come you don't blame Kevin Feige? Isn't he the decision maker at marvel?
not completely, this movie was made during the Bob Chapek Era. Movies after 2024 are Feige production movies. Hence why he pulled Cap 4 and the Daredevil series back to work on them. Under chapek the movies and shows suffered a lot taking away creative power from Feige.
The best show-movie tie in was in Agents of SHIELD. The agents discovered the Hydra base and sent it to the Avengers. Opening scene in Age of Ultron they raided the base. You didn't have to see the show but it was a nice detail because that aired right before the movie came out.
Not to mention Captain America Winter Soldier
Complete mid season shift
@@cmleibenguth correct. The show was mediocre until then. It got good after that.
What I find most interesting is how the movie bombed worldwide. The entire planet lost interest in Marvel movies. How did that happen so quickly? It's a like a #1 rated TV show getting cancelled two years later.
Hey, Disney. You need to make your characters interesting with real story arcs before we get invested in your movies. This is one of the reasons why I like the MCU movies with Tony Stark. He had a real character arc. You see him as a playboy, Bruce Wayne type. His character suddenly got dark when he learned how his parents got killed. You then got into the third act as he became the person who saved the universe.
Tony Stark became an Avengers after one good movie and one mediocre movie, so your argument kinda falls apart.
@@thehacker4012How?
@@thehacker4012 you look at the overall character arc from 2008 thru 2019 and you got a good picture.
@@captaincorona9488 That took almost ten years. Most of the new characters had been around for less than two years.
Monica should have had a cameo in the Ms. Marvel show (She could have even been related to the brother's wife) before this movie came out. The TV characters should team up before they hit the big screen. Then show up for the main event. Even if it was just those two.
Totally agree there's just not much stake in the MCU right now, and it's hard to get excited for new projects (except Deadpool 3, will will be a crazy ride!)
Bringing in tv characters whom the audience knew nothing about still could have worked.
They had good ideas but failed to execute them properly.
The tone of the movie was wrong. It should have been on par with Captain America Winter Soldier or The Eternals. More serious instead of leaning to kiddie.
They had the drama between Carol and Monica, the guilt Carol felt for her actions, the could have done a better job with the villain and shown the Kree suffering and just given everything more weight.
The movie was brought down to Kamalas level in terms of tone instead of elevating that character to be in more serious movies.
This should have been a heavy movie with Kamala being the light hearted character that helps bring Carol and Monica back together and mend that relationship while dealing with this threat that forced them together.
Damn it I hate it when a movie has the right ideas or close to it but fails to execute them properly. This, like Black Widow, could have been a movie that could have elevated the game just like Winter Soldier. Of coirse that is just my opinion
Just gotta laugh at John coming up with all these excuses blaming other movies.
The problem isn’t the shows. The problem is these characters just suck.
It was the wrong story to tell imo. I think a problem with captain Marvel is as a viewer i have no connection with her or know who she is in the mcu. Like what does she do? just fly between planets and protect skrulls? What was she doing between every since her very first introduction? There's an entire movie missing between the first captain Marvel and the 2nd one.
can we just forget this movie happened and look forward to deadpool 3
John always saying hey dont hate me I liked it. Afraid to take a stand ;).
Black Adam gets some bragging rights now.
Yup lol
No lol
disagree completely, Ant man wasn't great but it is a masterpiece next to this piece of crap, I wanted to walk out, unfunny
made no sense, worst MCU movie ever made, disrespectfully bad if it made 200m it was 200m more than deserved.
I think John is missing the point of people not seeing it. It’s not because people didn’t watch the Disney+ stuff. It’s because the mainstream moviegoer is not interested in Ms Marvel, Captain Marvel or Monica Rambeau. The Captain Marvel movie made a lot of money because it was shoehorned in between infinity war and endgame and was ok, but didn’t excite the average moviegoer like the marvel a-list characters do.
Believe me, if they had the same writers, same concepts, same marketing, same strikes going on and the movie had Storm, Rogue and Cyclops… it would’ve done bank.
Idk I would have to disagree... They said that the avengers were not "mainstream" enough to make movies about but here we are 😂 They definitely need to revamp though but there are definitely external factors and hand and Disney + isn't helping. The movie was literally 10 times better than the first one 😂 But it's 60% on rotten tomatoes and the first one has 80% 🤔 Like make it make sense haha
“It made a lot of money because it was shoehorned between Infinity War and Endgame”
Yeah yeah, keep telling yourself that
@@benm5970 All movies at the height of the infinity saga did well due to the popularity of the MCU. If a Captain marvel movie came out now outside of the infinity saga, it probably wouldn’t do as well…
hold up… a captain marvel movie did come out that wasn’t shoehorned in the infinity saga… it was called the Marvels. Please have several seats. The data has presented itself. Be mad at facts if you want.
@@DannyBeigal
Neither did Ant Man 3 but people love that character
@@benm5970 ah… now moving the goal post. Nice.
When she hulk was going, a lot of fans said how bad it was. I’ve been watching this show for a decade, even during the AMC days, but you kept on defending She Hulk and even insulted some of the fans who criticized it. So I feel its a bit hypocritical to now tell us its bad when I remember the tone was very different.
WTF are you talking about? He didn't even finish She-Hulk and dropped it because he thought the humor was so bad
@@AstroRocket Please watch some of the videos when She hulk episodes 1-5 aired.
@@xonfire1 Christ, it's not enough that the man ultimately agreed with you, now he's a hypocrite because it took him too many episodes to do so? I see why so many youtubers just start ignoring their comment sections...
One thing I've been thinking about is the post endgame era had a big hole when chadwick boseman passed. I feel like black panther was supposed to be the main character of this phase and they had to pivot after that and they dont really know what theyre doing overall i think
Marvel doesnt care about Wakanda. The last thing they need is pro black movies. Took them 5 years to put out the movie after the first while force feeding us Ant. They own too many characters and trying to do everything themselves and trashing the whole joint. Look at Kang, they demolish his character because he is black. Yes, I think there is a conspiracy in Disney to under represent Black characters. In a movie here the Black character should be front and center with real black motivation, they undermine the story trying to whiten it. That is why people are not interested in Kang Dynasty. I will watch Foundation series over Kang Dynasty.
@@goddyfame3424They own so many characters because they created them
They don't own "too many"
Its their own IP
@@cmleibenguth Did they create the Characters or do they own the rights to them? Last time I checked, the creators are dead. My point is that with all the characters in one company's hands, the competition is barely there so we get deminishing quality of content and propaganda.
I wonder if this will be John’s new Black Adam. Where he compares box office disappointment to it
Trailer looked embarrassing. That bit with the girl screaming as she floats around in space sums the problem up imo
That’s half a black Adam
The Meowvels trailer was a banger. Maybe if the cast could have gone on late night cable shows there would be $200 million more demand 🤔
First they need to slow down alot. Maybe they also need to relize tv and movies dont mix. Have a tv universe and a movie universe.
Simple truth: you reap what you sow. Hence, Disney / Marvel is getting everything that it deserves in this regard.
What do you mean by “you reap what you sow” in this context?
Kinda sad people would rather go see quality foreign made films rather than Hollywood movies.
Hollywood doesn’t care about quality anymore
Nah that's a good thing. Hollywood'll be forced to step up and US audiences get a taste of cultures outside of their own. Just get used to the subtitles.
Godzilla minus one was a fantastic movie the marvels not so much lol
Taking the hindsight is 20/20 view here, but a big factor to the box office failure is they told the wrong story. What do audiences want from the MCU? X-Men!! What Carol Danvers story involves an X-Men character? Rogue!! Before she was an X-Man, she stole Captain Marvel’s powers. If the MCU pulled from this story, there would’ve been a different conversation in this video.
But was Hela a really good villain in Ragnarok? I remember people complaining about it at the time
I didn’t like Captain Marvel, I thought Rambeau was the a nothing part of Wandavision, and I haven’t seen Ms Marvel or Secret Invasion. I have absolutely no investment in the Marvels and just don’t want to see it.
AOS was good, i remembered that series finale when they jumping through different dimensions they mentioned the villians they said we can't go back to their time bc its being attacked. They was referring to Thanos and infinity wars!
I didn't know there was others who thought Flash was a good movie. 🎉 Supergirl was phenomenal.
Obviously Marvel being subpar and the TV characters turning people away are factors, but the biggest reason no one wanted to go to this is the first movie is bad and Brie Larson is an unlikeable human playing an unlikeable character so a lot of people don't care to support it. I've seen every single Marvel movie from Iron Man 1 to Guardians 3 in theaters and this one I just skipped because I couldn't care less about Captain Marvel.
I honestly think people are remembering MCU phase 2 and 3 for being better than it actually was. We had some great movies. But for me Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, Guardians 2, Ant Man 2, Thor 2, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain Marvel and Spider-Man: Far from Home were pretty underwhelming. I think take them out of the build up to Thanos and people would see just how average they are as movies. Just my opinion.
Phase 1 is definitely viewed with rose-colored glasses. Apart from the Avengers I found every other film (even Iron Man) at best ok.
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy people didn't see this movie because it had Marvel character from Disney+. If people didn't feel the need to watch every Marvel film to understand an Avengers movie, then why do they feel the need to watch Disney+ Marvel shows to understand what is going on in The Marvels. The logic just doesn't make much sense, especially when most of Disney+ Marvel shows are very self-contained stories.
I agree with you, John, but I also disagree about you saying the TV characters cannot make it to the big screen. We just haven’t had a really good set up for these characters to earn their big screen appearance, and that I do agree in Agents of Shield start changing from it, not being involved in the MCU towards the last seasons of the show.
Mmm, Star Wars 9 and Thor LaT gave me only a hint of the taste of bile in my throat. It was Nick Fury in The Marvels yelling, "BLACK GIRL MAGIC!" that had me actually tasting bile and giving me Irritable Bowel Syndrome for a week where I called it quits on Disney.
Afterwards, thankfully a friend steered me to the series 1883 and I found that incredible writing and acting still does exist. If you would like to cleanse your palate after The Marvels and Star Wars, I suggest watching just the first four minutes of EP 1 of 1883. I had to binge watch the entire season with Sam Elliot, Faith Hill, Tim McGraw and Isabel May with cameos by Tom Hanks and Billy Bob Thornton just to find out more. Then I binged on 1923 with Harrison Ford and Yellowstone with Kevin Costner to round out the trilogy.
Now? Disney is only an occasional nightmare of mine.
Bro really said "I read this ... on Threads" 💀
This is probably Bob Chapeks fault as he was trying to go full ham on the streaming wars, so he probably forced Feige to make the movie and tv stories intertwine together. Bob was betting on that people would watch Disney+ before they go to the movies. Only problem is the marvel tv series has been bad except for Wandavision
The fact that u still think Captain Marvel is a popular character says u haven't learnt anything
They just need to replace the actor for captain marvel cause people are going to hate her mcu films everytime 🤦♂️
These corporations forget that many times “Less is more”. Maybe if they only did one MCU show and 1-2 movies per year the quality would improve because they can devote far more resources and time into making them awesome. One billion dollar movie is better than 3 movies combined barely making a billion. Like John always says “The MCU movies used to be an event”.
Iger started this with Disney plus and thebother other Bob went and did worse. So Iger has to blame himself too.
Funny enough, I think MCU stopped being an event when Disney tries to make all of it an event.
I think The Flash now deserves a bit more credit lol
It's also pretty telling that in 2023, the most popular superhero content on Disney Plus in Asia has been a Korean show called Moving. And it's been getting rave reviews and sweeping awards left and right.
FNAF and Meg 2 are movies that delivered what they promised. People expect something big from Marvel especially with the high budgets yet the products look like they were made for Disney +.
No way this was better than Quantumania bro... Both suck but at least Quantumania had some consistency, The Marvels is ALL OVER THE PLACE
How did go from iconic storytelling and world building to a singing planet a litter of space kitties and Brie Larson in a Disney princess dress
As an avid MCU fan, I am very sad to see the MCU in this state.....the mcu movies, particularly within the first 3 phases, were events unto themselves.....coming out roughly about once every months, perhaps twice a year at the earlier stages, it gave audiences, especially myself, done thing to look forward to ....something to look forward to.....throughout life's downsides, the fact we have a pleasant, good, MCU movie coming out in several months, gave me something to root for, even. The serialized structure , especially complemented with great storytelling and care, in the details of the universe they created, kept us invested.
I'm sad to see the MCU in it's state.
I still look forward to the projects. I saw Marvels twice - but unfortunately, to practically empty theatres.
As I watched the D+ shows and the theatrical movies, I can't help but feel that the MCU has (almost) lost it's fans.
It's all over the place.
There seems to be an absent narrative thread throughout the projects , which was wonderfully woven though phases 1 to 3.
The infinity saga had beautiful characters in the 6 core avengers, and the wonderful dynamic between tony stark and Steve Rogers, played beautifully by Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr, anchored the franchise.
People rooted for these 2, especially RDJ.
Nowadays they don't have that core group that anchors the franchise.
Conceptually, they have very very huge concepts such as Gods and Kang and Egyptology and Superhuman governance and Celestials, that really don't matter, because there's no consequence.
Anyone remembers Hercules? What's the follow up with him?
What about Kit Harrington's Black Knight and the Ebony Blade?
Each entry in the MCU, whether it's a tv series or a theatrical project, introduced big powerful concepts that could, theoretically hold its own phase.
You can spent a phase just talking about the celestials and the eternals.
You can spent a phase talking about how does the different omnipotent concepts and being wove into the MCU - touching on the Greek gods, the Roman gods, the Egyptian gods etc.
You can spent one phase just talking about non western dimensions and storylines (shang chi) and how it ties into the present 'western' MCU
You can spend a phase dealing with superhuman control and legislation and Superhuman rights in a serious manner (she hulk)
You can spend building stories within the quantum realm - delve into that universe and explore the stories that can be told there
You can talk about the interaction between gods and mortals and explore tales and myths and legends in one phase.
Marvel Studios can do a deep dive and take their time with their phases, even with D+.
But instead every movie and every project is an introduction to a gigantic concept which easily gets brushed off or glossed over.
Audiences lose that feeling of investedness.
And when that investment is gone, no one watches.
I like ant man better than this movie. I could care less about the Marvel's. And I'm a marvel fan
I thought Ant-man 3 was much better than all of their 2022 movies: Doctor Strange 2, Thor 4, Black Panther 2.
*couldn’t care less
I think people expect Disney to "course correct", but i doubt they'll do that. They'll probably change the business model but not the content model.
I honestly think they mishandled what to do with Disney Plus. I’m not saying that putting original content on Disney plus was wrong but I think Disney plus was made to make stuff like the Guardians holiday special, what if and so on. They’re fun but also side stories. Introduce your new characters that are important to the bigger picture on the big screen. Things like Moon Knight, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, both seasons of Loki all were good shows but would’ve worked better as movies. Someone told me the other day that Loki introduced the plot point and the villain if it’s next big saga on Disney plus. That should’ve been a movie event. Absolutely nothing wrong with 3 good movies that moves the real narrative forward and 1 or 2 side stories on Disney plus a year.
Clearly they need more executives on set 😂😂😂😂
Deadpool 3 had better be a GREAT movie if Disney needs to rebound next year. If not, the MCU will slide even further going into Captain America 4.
It shows to prove that nothing lasts forever. Sometime in the far future, you will see the Statue of Liberty becoming reduced to rubble. The almighty MCU has started to descend.
Big break for comic book movies next year, hopefully they learn from their mistakes and rebound in 2025
I'll be honest, I didn't think The Marvels was that bad. It wasn't amazing, but it was breezy entertainment. I just think it suffered the consequences of too much mediocre MCU content leading up to it and it didn't have the must see factor of the previous Captain Marvel film. Its certainly very odd to watch this movie after having watched Secret Invasion. MCU right now needs a slew of Shang-Chi, NWH level acclaimed films/tv shows to break out of this spiral.
No one cares about 3 super hero chicks….plain facts.
People would if they threw an effort into the characters.
Bigoted af the way that sounds
@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdomNot when actress herself is unlikable
@@hemantks4353 Casting is part of the effort.
And much of the hate on her focused on the irrelevant parts anyway.
Subpar content, bad marketing/press, social media situations, coming off a bad show in secret invasion and ok first movie regardless if loki was good they was concurrent to each other so nobody knew how itd play out yet. This movie was set up to fail.
all this focus on large ramifications on the larger universe instead of just the focus being on the movie being made is a big part of the problem who cares about connections and crossovers when your not invested or even really care about the characters onscreen.....and when almost everything is played for a joke and the default personality for most of these characters contrary to the comics is quippy and snarky.....these movies have alot of issues imo.
Great Movie: Theater
Ok Movie: Streaming
Bad movie: Never Watch
Hawkeye was garbage. And that's where they lost me.
I stand by that, Captain Marvel has been a poor character from the start. Her first movie was not good, and the character was played so emotionless, on purpose (not all Brie Larson's fault), that by the end, you practically felt nothing for her. I won't dispute the negativity or sexism ect... that happened during that time... but all I can say is, I walked away from that movie feeling nothing for her (though I've always had a thing for Annette Bening, so that was a lovely surprise). I believe it only made over a billion dollars because of the MCU hype train, and the media controversy it had... But as a solo movie, it never deserved it.
Then her only other Marvel appearance was short at best, and cringe at worst in Endgame. She never earned her popularity. Then fast forward to the Marvels, and everything said about using the Disney+ series is true. Not everyone watched them, and they didn't even fit well overall into the story. So you take a mix of a character that never earned her popularity, mixed with a versions of a side character in a TV show that few watched, and a main character of a different TV show that few watched, with a dash of a pretty poor plot, with a weak villian... Mixed in with a lot of dissatisfaction with the MCU since Endgame... And you get The Marvels situation.
Very little of this is on the actors themselves. It's all from bad writing and bad decision making from the executives who didn't know how to handle the character in the first place.
Robert explained it perfectly
They should have built on the character we had after endgame instead of introducing so many new ones and dropping so many shows on D+. That really diluted the brand and caused people to just give up on marvel content all together. Disney needs to get Bob Iger and his crew out and start doing some serious planning for the rest of phase 5. Sadly however I don’t think Iger will face any consequences for his mistakes (see chapek) and Disney will be down for the rest of the decade until the pendulum swings back again in the 2030s
Guys this isn’t different from the comics. EVERYBODY is not going to like EVERYTHING that comes out. With all the characters that marvel has, there were series of comic books that I had no interest in reading. The movies are no different. The “run” people keep talking about had a lot of to do with the story about characters that were very popular. Just think everybody is not going to gravitate to some of these “other” heroes.
Disney did the same thing to Marvel that they did with Star Wars, quantity over quality sucking every dollar out they could with what felt like 0 regard for quality of the content. In addition to pushing their social agenda. Fans thankfully have demonstrated their disapproval with sales. Both franchises went downhill as soon as Disney got their claws into them. Unfortunate.
Anytime John pushes back against marvel he has to repeatedly state he’s not a hater lol. It’s unfortunate he can’t just give his opinion. The man has supported marvel throughout.
He isn't a hater, though. He just isn't going to embellish for views unlike some others.
Don't worry, the Agatha series will totally save the MCU!
LMFAOOOOOO
The marvels will make less than the flash haha. But yeah keep on making flash jokes
I don't have Disney+ and have no idea who these characters are, other than Nick Fury and Goose...
Did you know all the characters beforehand in the other mcu movies you watched?
Movie was always going to flop but no doubt love and thunder qauntumania and secret invasion hurt it