My endgame content is building friendship teams where you put teams of characters you recently built put together and use them to fight domains or commissions or bounties. it’s genuinely so fun to grind for their namecards and to figure out synergies between characters you’ve never played before. my current friendship team is navia, lynette, gaming and charlotte. genuinely figuring out a way to make the 4 of them work was so much fun.
the only problem with this is that im running out of characters… ive been building friendship teams since 1.6. i have 63 characters friendship level 10 and have 8 characters left that aren’t in my team… im worried eventually ill run out and lose my endgame content…
@@LinKubPin That does sound fun! And yeah very sad that even that will end up drying up 😢 I'm pretty close to that point too, only have like 12 left, and 6 of those are already level 9 😬
@@raptori hoping natlan blesses us with an abundance of new characters! i used to put my friendship team in my teapot to get them leveled up faster and now i genuinely regret it so much... couldve had so many of my fav friendship characters in my team for longer...
It's not even healthy for MMOs. Raids are essentially the original in-game lootbox, locked behind a week that forces you to keep paying your monthly subscription and requires grouping to foster an unhealthy social dependence on the MMO. It's the original sin of live service games. The industry is far more predatory than people think, and the idea gacha games are the biggest offender is, while somewhat true, not entirely reality. Genshin is far less predatory than almost every MMO on the market aside from Oldschool Runescape, and far less predatory than Steam (the golden boy of the gaming industry.) I don't know how much more detail I can get into this without breaking an NDA so I'll leave it at that.
FINALLYY. SOMEONE SAYSSS IT. Engame is just another phrase for, hey login, grind to beat this stage just for it to dissappear in 3 weeks. Or in other gacha games, weekly / bi weekly. I love seeing people complain about " needing endgame". Its literally just chronic abyss players, throwing a tantrum, that thir C1 Nuev, furina teams invalidate abyss. Lol🤣
@@deonardomendez9426 THIS Not to mention that wanting something that'd allow you to spend hours every day on a game that was designed to be CASUAL is ??????? 🤣
@@MusicLoverInTheSky ahh - NOW I get the "end game content whining" - it's for the content creators to do something that won't bore them eventually !! while us "regular" players just see it as a source of Primogems - because THATs what Genshin (as a gacha game) is for - collecting characters that you like. (if Spiral Abyss & Imaginarium Theater is "too easy" for you - go play something else !!)
I think one of the reasons they don't want to do that is because it will break the game play loop of explore the open world more people will find exploration less enjoyable because the game mode give them everything that the game offer in one place it maybe a stupid reason for many, but I think they want the gameplay loop of exploration in new areas to be the main focus so people who have nothing better to do in the game force to explore and do the world quests is that true? I highly doubt but I think it is a possibility
It *would* be nice if "exploration meta" characters like Wanderer or Sayu had benefits outside of getting to commissions faster. But, the issue I always have with more endgame is that anything you're required to do repeatedly becomes annoying, no matter how fun it is the first time. The endless simulated universe spinoffs are the main reason I dropped HSR. The dream scenario is obviously to have a mode that makes getting the primos quick and easy while also having endless replayability, but I feel like this is a paradox. We're sort of trained to follow the breadcrumb trail of gems, so once those dry up most people will do something else, or close the game until tomorrow. So they'd have to continue dropping gems, or other valuables, further into the challenge, and then you have people like me getting annoyed and not wanting to play the game at all. (Achievements and world exploration are like this, but that's fine because they're permanent, so there's no pressure to do them before the weekly refresh or whatever). The perfect endgame mode might be impossible, but honestly, I think it's fine. For a casual game, the amount of one-time content is so enormous that I doubt most players have even done half of it. And I get more fun out of resinless behavior in the overworld than any of the intended challenges. Apparently they're increasing the world level cap soon, which should make beating up random enemies a little less trivial; throw in some chest respawns like someone else suggested, and that'd be good enough.
@@kimarimoi This is what people don't get!! Every new thing will become something you get used to. If you happen to get an endgame mode that scratches the right spot for you, sooner than later that spot will stop being itchy and you'll want something else. And expecting the devs to come up with new and exciting things as often as people start whining again (which is too often) is insane. I'd like to see *them* being that creative in a way that actually works for the game. 😂 Some complaints in the community are reasonable and valid, but most people are just whining babies who are never satisfied and never will be, honestly.
IDK, this game mode is basically a slightly more interesting and varied take on the Illusive Realm, and personally I'd happily play that game mode just for fun. Obviously preferences will depend on the person, but something like that in Genshin would just be so good...
I might be in the minority but I would follow the breadcrumb trail for non-primo rewards too ngl 😅 As a person who likes to build every single character they own (and I'm only missing 5), I'm forever in need of wit, mora, artefact exp, elementla gems, talent books, and of course artefacts themselves since I choose to spend a lot of my resin on the afore mentioned materials instead! I would definitely not want this type of game to stick to any strict refresh schedule (like divergent/simulated universe 1x week), so it doens't beocme another weekly chore!
I've sort of created my own end-game content using my programming knowledge and Genshin's commission system. I created an app that randomly selects a bunch of characters for you to use, sometimes with a challenging twist (ex. only pyro characters, only characters from Liyue, etc.), and the goal is to complete all 4 commissions without teleporting, so that you're forced to traverse the open world and explore in between completing commissions. I would love to see Genshin create a true end-game mode similar to this, or just generally make the commissions system more engaging and challenging, since right now it's just something most people consider a chore.
Sincerely pls someone hire Saurus for the gameplay ideas - pls! I swear I would line up and promote any game in which you had a hand in the gameplay because you know what would be exceptional and what would make people come back. I love EVERY single thing about this - there are so many things they could do, but they just don't. It's so frustrating - the potential is there but they haven't seemed to grasp it even though their other teams can make similar things that can be as fun.
omg you're too kin hahah 😍💜 but exactly tho!! so many cool mechanics and maps, minigames, etc that could be utilised! And personally I'd be compeltley fine with the primo rewards being fairly emager - if we had the aility to earn character build mats I'd be over the moon!
One thing I don't want in any new mode: don't make it a DPS check. Spiral Abyss is already that. I generally hate dungeon grind but IT is fun purely because of the forced character limits needing a wide base, and it is tuned as such. Whatever they implement, I hope it doesn't end up being a boring long timesink like HSR is. Also we can look at ZZZ on mixing different element types. I like the TV mode, and the combat separately. But together, it doesn't feel that great a fit. So there will be that danger if the content isn't sufficiently focused.
100% - it's interesting to compare DPS check style gameplay (Abyss, Tower, etc) to the Illusive Realm - the IR is still almost entirely combat based, but since it's more about "can you stack the right buffs to make your character ridiculously strong" it doesn't feel anything like the DPS check game modes, and instead is just hella fun. My only real complaint about it is that they remove it a week or so before the end of the patch, and don't add it back in until a little while into the new one... I wanted to just do it for fun and it was gone 😭
I've been saying in the survey every time: CO-OP SPIRAL ABYSS, or a 6 player RAID dungeon! This would be replayable and fun because it's co-op. Sure you might get a whale every now n then, but if they make it difficult enough, you can have at least a fight long enough to still be fun.
Yes! Someone from Mihoyo please take note and pass it on! The only thing I'd like to add is some ability to "relive" some past events and stories. E.g I'd love to go back to hang out with the Aranaras... (okay, perhaps not the most popular part). Or at least options to play the summer events... etc. Another reason some of us play is for lore and character stories. So a reward to get new lore or character into/background +/- aesthetics would be nice.
I would say it will be tedious to do the puzzles and will be much to ask if you need to have a bow unit for Archery challenge. Replayability can also make it tedious to do like it will he more stale and grindy rather than enjoying it. The reason endgame content exist is to test our built characters and knowledge of the game combat mechanics
I want combat in snowing weather ( easy melt / freeze opportunity ). Alsooo I want co-op -able endgame content!!! I would feel so much more motivated to refine my builds if this would also help my friends who want to team up with me.
YES having some kind of an abyss-like vhaellenge but co-op would be so fun! it would also give whales/skilled people an extra chance to shine by carrying people who struggle otherwise
@@saurusness yessssss I think Genshin is not tapping into co op potential enough as it would motivate many of us to enjoy playing it more. even for me as f2play.
53:00 2.2 Childe combat domains event, it was great you can enter different domains with the ability to explore and searching for buffs they already built it, I don't know what they don't add it to the game it's not like they will have to build it from the search also 3.7 building custom domains' event can be a really interesting End Game for an exploration game
I have been thinking about the best engaging endgame content for a while that I would like so much. Basically there is a multiplayer hub that has different servers, each holding around 100 or so players maybe 50 is good. And this map has two endgame modes at each opposite end. One is a portal to a infinite tower - up to 8 players - having a floors all the way to 100 and each is different either combat, exploration, or puzzle with each 5th level being a tough boss. The second portal leading to a boss raid portal. Here players can make a party of up to 8 players to challenge these boss raids and higher levels give special artifacts that can be upgradable to 30. And these artifacts are 1-3-5 set pieces. Fun fact this whole boss raid idea of 8 player coop raids existed in the beta which rewards that had artifacts sets of 1-3-5 but never came to be finalized in the final release of the game. Hopefully they do something great with multiplayer coop in the future(although this is definitely not happening anytime soon) especially if it is repeatable so that people can have fun with other players and have a great repayable feature for long term enjoyment. Just my thoughts lol- thanks for reading :)
In my opinion any difficulty mode whose difficulty lies on a timer to challenge players is horrible game design i want bosses that are mechanically challenging to fight to have an engaging experience not a dumb booated health bar to defeat in x period of time its simply not fun if enemies fighting back aren't the actual combat challenge in a game
Best endgame is Divine Ingenuity collectors chapter. Trail chars of all sorts, make ur own domain and play on others. Collect coins, mazes, do custom and new changing challenges, with diff team comps whether u have em or not u can use all trial chars.
I like the domain end game idea. Different domains that focus on puzzles, exploration?, combat, or challenges and then continues to the next domain. I especially like domains tailored to certain characters. The only problem I see with this is that the content *may* step on the toes of limited timed event domains/story quests
Unpopular opinion based on experience actually working in the game development field for live service games: Endgame content is the most unhealthy content design and Genshin absolutely should not develop any more of it in any form that rewards players in any meaningful way. One or two achievements for a pittance of primogems is fine, but going the Star Rail route of a weekly Simulated Universe + PF + MoC + the last thing I can't remember is strictly predatory game design. It's also why Genshin is studied in the marketing research fields of live service studios while HSR is not - Genshin is popular and successful despite using counterproductive tactics that actually dissuade players from spending more money. Star Rail is not studied in a similar vein - they're a case study on what little things we can get away with and how much more money those tactics can make. Generally, a live service game that makes more money per player on average is a live service game that you could confidently call "more predatory."
The better reference is the Illusive Realm, which has a lot more in common with what Saurus is suggesting - it's a good balance between the two IMO! You get most of the rewards for the first hour or two of gameplay, but then there's a long tail of further objectives with minor rewards (like exp materials or mora equivalent). It's no big deal to miss out on those minor rewards, but the gameplay is so fun and varied that I've actually gone back to get like 95% of them so far and enjoyed it the entire time! Contrast that to Genshin's endgame, which can be extremely frustrating if your account isn't up to the standards the abyss expects...
I love reading comments from people on the field. They're always like this one, basically saying "Players don't know what they're asking for." and generally speaking, I couldn't agree more. 😂 Wish I'd encounter more of them.
@@raptori All right, it seems you missed what I was trying to say so I should probably explain it a bit more clearly: The main issue isn't what type of Endgame content should be added, it's that Endgame content is entirely antithetical to the core demographic of Genshin. Genshin's main demographic is casual players. The defining factor of a casual player is that they play a game strictly for enjoyment through experience. A game needs to be enjoyable at a baseline. A hardcore player, on the other hand, gets enjoyment through accomplishment. So a casual player is more likely to enjoy the Serenitea Pot while a hardcore player is more likely to label it a waste of time and resources. Meanwhile, a hardcore player is more likely to enjoy that moment when they overcome a difficult boss in Elden Ring while a casual player will either give up after their 18th death or sigh out after they win and say, "It's finally over. This was a waste of my time." Generally speaking, content designed for one end of this spectrum pisses off the other end in some way. You can see with the Imaginarium Theater that Genshin's team absolutely tried everything they could to ensure casual players wouldn't get upset by "frustrating" content. They specifically prevented meta-gaming anxiety by requiring a larger roster of characters and limiting gameplay to specific reactions. They also reduced the strict stat checks that you'd see in the Abyss. On top of this, the IT also rewards additional character poses for photo taking. This is a major incentive for casual players to at least get through the easy or normal mode of IT every month. IT was probably the single best way Genshin could introduce new hardcore content.
@@incognito2742 👆👆👆 👏 You 👏 can't 👏 please 👏 everyone. 👏 That's why you pick a target audience and stick to it. God, the amount of times I had to explain all this to whiny hardcore players who can't accept that this game was not designed for them and feel entitled to it changing just for them simply because they like the combat system.
@@incognito2742 Nah I get all that! It goes without saying that Hoyo will do whatever they feel is best to nurture their intended playerbase, and they're clearly doing a fantastic job of it. It also goes without saying that we do not have access to any real information about the demographics, so personally I tend to assume the online discourse is unrepresentative, keep in mind that we don't really know where Hoyo's revenue comes from (welkins vs whales), and instead try to infer what their intent is based on their actions. Up until recently, I felt it was pretty clear that their revenue was heavily skewed towards casual players, simply because Hoyo were doing very little to cater to anyone else. I personally found that a bit frustrating, since I'm in an in-between segment where I dislike the Elden-ring style "difficulty" (definitely one of those who just sighs after finally beating a frustrating boss), but have completed all the permanent content (even down to getting 100% of the achievements) so I'm not even remotely casual either. But I recognise that I'm an outlier, and don't expect them to cater to me! With all that in mind, the addition of the Imaginarium Theater is interesting. I'd argue that it makes it pretty clear that something in their analytics is telling them they need *something* which keeps long-term players engaged, so I guess the question is exactly what were they aiming at there. Based on the design of the game mode, I'm pretty convinced that a couple of the bigger motivations are to encourage players to spread their investment more horizontally, to provide repeatable content which better caters to people who don't fall into the "hardcore game" demographic, and to ensure players step outside of the narrow confines of their favourite "meta" teams and experience more of the variety of the game. All of these things would bring the "hardcore" players closer to the "casual" players in terms of strength, and IMO a lot of the quality-of-life upgrades they've built seem aimed at the same thing from the opposite direction (moving "casual" players closer to "hardcore"). I like what they're trying with the IT, but think it's a flawed first attempt. While I'm looking forward to seeing them improve it over time, WuWa's Illusive Realm really highlighted IT's flaws to me, and Saurus's game mode suggestion (particularly the rewards structures discussed later in the video) really nails both what would appeal to me personally, and how they could make it cater to a wider audience than the current endgame manages, and do a better job at those things I *think* they're aiming at. That rewards structure IMO makes sure it avoids being a predatory time-sink for those who don't love the experience, while ensuring the people who *do* enjoy it would get much more enjoyment out of it. Of course that's all based on assumptions, but I still think it's a worthwhile topic to discuss!
You definitely cooked with this one. Love your overall concept. At this point, I would just settle with having labyrinth warriors back. I'm desperate.😅
Yeah terrain diversity during battle are missed opportunity on genshin battle design. I'm kinda sick of fighting enemies on flat surface. And the fact they're used to do this on early 1.0 domain design show that they can do this. I'm a bit iffy with putting puzzle on this kind of gamemode, maybe this is personal bias but i'm afraid it can get old fast and a bit difficult to design. But overall i really like your suggestions
IT already has premier limited banner characters as trial characters but i understand why you don't know that since it's all in the leaks you will be able to play mualani and kinich and i don't even need to say you are able to play Emilie
Currently she's avilable as a "special guest" meaning you can use her if you have her or your friends have her, but there's no trial version for you to use, so unless you're saying that in future IT special guests will *also* be available as trial characters, then I think you might be confusing the main cast witht he spcial guests perhaps?
@@saurusness okay i think you are correct about this in regards to Emilie and i am 80% wrong in regards to what i've said the leaks do show Kinich in the special invitation while mualani and emilie in the opening characters the following IT so we will get to test them out maybe during their banners maybe after their banners
Hoyo wants you to play Genshin, HSR and ZZZ at the same time. They'll never gave a long ver. endgame to Genshin no matter what. In Genshin playing the story, exploring and doing the side quests long enough. Adding more will make the game becoming tiresome. Especially to the people who also play HSR and ZZZ at the same time. The puzzle end game will become extremely tedious, and doing it on the overworld is more than enough. The buffing system already exists in Genshin in EVERY battle event in every patch. Majority players of Genshin wants shorter endgame. If it takes too long to complete they will ignore it completely. This is the mindsets of the majority of Genshin player base. I know why you put WuWa as example but the endgame you propose is already exist in ZZZ right now. Hoyo knows how to make endgame but they still chooses to ignore it like the Labyrinth Warrior event of Genshin. The percentage of player base of Genshin who completed the Spiral Abyss or IT is just too low. The majority who asking for longer or harder endgame or something to do in a dead patch, not even completed many of the side quests, exploring and story. They are not the majority target audience of Genshin.
IMO something like a restrictive and oppressed boss rush could work , for example we fight boss back to back to back with limited time , resource , DPS check mechanic , fight while having penalty/burden put on you and character swapping limitation ( or cool down before you can deploy that character again ) The more penalty you put on yourself the higher the score and Primo Gem you'll get . For example how you fight Radagon and then instantly Elden Beast afterward without the ability to replenish your resources and have your skill on cool down if you use it during Radagon fight .
I *really* want this endgame... The Illusive Realm has been so much fun to play, but if we could have something with a little more depth, with some exploration and puzzles *and* Genshin's more fun reaction system for the combat, then I'd enjoy it 100x more!
So you mean bring back the open world one-time domains with puzzles movement and combat in between, the problem is how to make it repeatable and not recycled.
In WuWa the Illusive Realm is kinda like a slightly less awesome version of what Saurus is describing, and it has only like 5 or 6 locations which all look pretty similar, but it still feels *really* fun - I think if they went all out and created enough variety, with like 5-6 locations each for a few different location styles, the locations would feel fresh and varied enough without it taking all that much more effort to make! The stuff Saurus talked about in the vid for making it replayable works wonders for the IR, would be amazing in this Genshin version!
Honestly I'd like that a lot 😎 I've been feeling really bored of wuwa for the past couple of weeks and then they update IR and immediately I'm enjoying it again haha
Guess it’s a hot take, but I have to hard disagree. Things like SimU and Illusive Realm feel awful because you get so many insane buffs that your character doesn’t even matter anymore. Anything relying on the buffs rather than your characters in bad, imo.
You're not wrong there! The way your characters' damage just sky rockets with the SU buffs is frankly ludicrious, though I generally just block out the damage numbers in that kind of content and just focus on collecting the cards and curios so I can unlock rewards afterwards :D Same in any fighty events that offer buffs to our teams damage - I just ignore the numbers! What I really dislike is the imaginarious theatre buffs carrying over outside of It, and the fact taht you can't turn those buff off, as that really skewes with my sense of strong my characters/teams are in a weird way. I also wish that these game modes and events that create inflated damage numbers wouldn't be recorded in your achievements - kinda ruins the point of the achievement when it says your highest hit was a character doing 3 million damage when they'd normally do 10% or less when everything's aligned right 😂
Imo the moment they stop us from using our characters is the moment genshin's combat will be fun again. Because idk about other people but 4mil hp bosses die in a few seconds... So either that or focus on the fun and less on the challenge. Make the combat fun but not challenging. And I get replayabilty but so far no gacha game ever managed to make good replayable content, not even wuwa and hsr, because while they do encourage you to play the modes again, it eventually becomes a chore instead of something you enjoy.
@@ad_of.moonbreak THIS, KIND OF. I don't particularly like Windtrace 'cause I don't like forced co-op, but I'd love to have this AND all the other fun mini games that we've gotten in events (the current bird one is a good example). They're usually cute, fun and chill, totally matching the game. It baffles me that they haven't made any of those permanent content.
Honestly yes tbh, I'd loe Windtrace and some of the other fun minigames to be more permanent! That breakout game from the Itto event (where the umbrella sword came from) was my absolute favourite!
@@MusicLoverInTheSky if they make it "permanent content" - it won't give meaningful rewards anymore - would you prefer that ? i enjoy a lot of those mini-games but they seem to repeat them every now and then and i can wait for the next cycle because if they make it permanent, you can bet they will NOT give Primos or even Hero's Wit for it anymore.
Just hearing you describe the kind of endgame you'd like made me super exhausted. 😅😂 I hate Simulated Universe-like things, they're very time consuming and tiring to me. I personally hope they *never* add something like that in Genshin and if they do, I hope nothing important is attached to it (like primos).
Ooh that actually brings up one point which Saurus mentioned on stream but which we didn't have time to fit into the video: in an ideal world, the shop which you get the primos (and other things) from should ideally be shared across all the different endgame modes, so that people who dislike one of them can just make up for it by doing more of another 👀
Ahh yes I somehow compeltely forgot to mention the part abotu the shop beign a shared store between all the different modes! thank you @raptori :D I also would prefer for the refresh to be less frequent that SU/DU (either once a month, or once a patch), because I agree a whole weekly run can be a little much... I like playing in bursts when I hsve the time and mood, and not keep to too strict a "schedule". Other than that I like DU well enough, but i've never completed the Swarm Disater or Gold&Gears because I find both exhausting - they simply take too long to complete and just thinking about it overwhelms me LOL
My endgame content is building friendship teams where you put teams of characters you recently built put together and use them to fight domains or commissions or bounties. it’s genuinely so fun to grind for their namecards and to figure out synergies between characters you’ve never played before. my current friendship team is navia, lynette, gaming and charlotte. genuinely figuring out a way to make the 4 of them work was so much fun.
the only problem with this is that im running out of characters… ive been building friendship teams since 1.6. i have 63 characters friendship level 10 and have 8 characters left that aren’t in my team… im worried eventually ill run out and lose my endgame content…
@@LinKubPin That does sound fun! And yeah very sad that even that will end up drying up 😢 I'm pretty close to that point too, only have like 12 left, and 6 of those are already level 9 😬
@@raptori hoping natlan blesses us with an abundance of new characters! i used to put my friendship team in my teapot to get them leveled up faster and now i genuinely regret it so much... couldve had so many of my fav friendship characters in my team for longer...
In my opinion best endgame for everything ( except MMO genre) is NO endgame. Endgame is just a mandatory repeatable content. I want unique content.
It's not even healthy for MMOs. Raids are essentially the original in-game lootbox, locked behind a week that forces you to keep paying your monthly subscription and requires grouping to foster an unhealthy social dependence on the MMO. It's the original sin of live service games.
The industry is far more predatory than people think, and the idea gacha games are the biggest offender is, while somewhat true, not entirely reality. Genshin is far less predatory than almost every MMO on the market aside from Oldschool Runescape, and far less predatory than Steam (the golden boy of the gaming industry.)
I don't know how much more detail I can get into this without breaking an NDA so I'll leave it at that.
@@incognito2742 Well, indeed. But instead of asking for new unique content, many players want repeatable grind to be implemented.
FINALLYY. SOMEONE SAYSSS IT. Engame is just another phrase for, hey login, grind to beat this stage just for it to dissappear in 3 weeks. Or in other gacha games, weekly / bi weekly.
I love seeing people complain about " needing endgame". Its literally just chronic abyss players, throwing a tantrum, that thir C1 Nuev, furina teams invalidate abyss. Lol🤣
@@deonardomendez9426 THIS
Not to mention that wanting something that'd allow you to spend hours every day on a game that was designed to be CASUAL is ??????? 🤣
@@MusicLoverInTheSky ahh - NOW I get the "end game content whining" - it's for the content creators to do something that won't bore them eventually !! while us "regular" players just see it as a source of Primogems - because THATs what Genshin (as a gacha game) is for - collecting characters that you like. (if Spiral Abyss & Imaginarium Theater is "too easy" for you - go play something else !!)
I think one of the reasons they don't want to do that is because it will break the game play loop of explore the open world more people will find exploration less enjoyable because the game mode give them everything that the game offer in one place
it maybe a stupid reason for many, but I think they want the gameplay loop of exploration in new areas to be the main focus so people who have nothing better to do in the game force to explore and do the world quests
is that true? I highly doubt but I think it is a possibility
It *would* be nice if "exploration meta" characters like Wanderer or Sayu had benefits outside of getting to commissions faster. But, the issue I always have with more endgame is that anything you're required to do repeatedly becomes annoying, no matter how fun it is the first time. The endless simulated universe spinoffs are the main reason I dropped HSR.
The dream scenario is obviously to have a mode that makes getting the primos quick and easy while also having endless replayability, but I feel like this is a paradox. We're sort of trained to follow the breadcrumb trail of gems, so once those dry up most people will do something else, or close the game until tomorrow. So they'd have to continue dropping gems, or other valuables, further into the challenge, and then you have people like me getting annoyed and not wanting to play the game at all. (Achievements and world exploration are like this, but that's fine because they're permanent, so there's no pressure to do them before the weekly refresh or whatever).
The perfect endgame mode might be impossible, but honestly, I think it's fine. For a casual game, the amount of one-time content is so enormous that I doubt most players have even done half of it. And I get more fun out of resinless behavior in the overworld than any of the intended challenges. Apparently they're increasing the world level cap soon, which should make beating up random enemies a little less trivial; throw in some chest respawns like someone else suggested, and that'd be good enough.
@@kimarimoi This is what people don't get!! Every new thing will become something you get used to. If you happen to get an endgame mode that scratches the right spot for you, sooner than later that spot will stop being itchy and you'll want something else. And expecting the devs to come up with new and exciting things as often as people start whining again (which is too often) is insane. I'd like to see *them* being that creative in a way that actually works for the game. 😂 Some complaints in the community are reasonable and valid, but most people are just whining babies who are never satisfied and never will be, honestly.
IDK, this game mode is basically a slightly more interesting and varied take on the Illusive Realm, and personally I'd happily play that game mode just for fun. Obviously preferences will depend on the person, but something like that in Genshin would just be so good...
I might be in the minority but I would follow the breadcrumb trail for non-primo rewards too ngl 😅 As a person who likes to build every single character they own (and I'm only missing 5), I'm forever in need of wit, mora, artefact exp, elementla gems, talent books, and of course artefacts themselves since I choose to spend a lot of my resin on the afore mentioned materials instead!
I would definitely not want this type of game to stick to any strict refresh schedule (like divergent/simulated universe 1x week), so it doens't beocme another weekly chore!
I've sort of created my own end-game content using my programming knowledge and Genshin's commission system. I created an app that randomly selects a bunch of characters for you to use, sometimes with a challenging twist (ex. only pyro characters, only characters from Liyue, etc.), and the goal is to complete all 4 commissions without teleporting, so that you're forced to traverse the open world and explore in between completing commissions. I would love to see Genshin create a true end-game mode similar to this, or just generally make the commissions system more engaging and challenging, since right now it's just something most people consider a chore.
That's sucha fun idea! I'd love for commissions and bounties to be a little more engaging
@@snacktical do you keep commissions to a region? I'm not keen on the thought of walking from inazuma to fontaine!
Sincerely pls someone hire Saurus for the gameplay ideas - pls! I swear I would line up and promote any game in which you had a hand in the gameplay because you know what would be exceptional and what would make people come back. I love EVERY single thing about this - there are so many things they could do, but they just don't. It's so frustrating - the potential is there but they haven't seemed to grasp it even though their other teams can make similar things that can be as fun.
omg you're too kin hahah 😍💜 but exactly tho!! so many cool mechanics and maps, minigames, etc that could be utilised! And personally I'd be compeltley fine with the primo rewards being fairly emager - if we had the aility to earn character build mats I'd be over the moon!
One thing I don't want in any new mode: don't make it a DPS check. Spiral Abyss is already that. I generally hate dungeon grind but IT is fun purely because of the forced character limits needing a wide base, and it is tuned as such. Whatever they implement, I hope it doesn't end up being a boring long timesink like HSR is. Also we can look at ZZZ on mixing different element types. I like the TV mode, and the combat separately. But together, it doesn't feel that great a fit. So there will be that danger if the content isn't sufficiently focused.
100% - it's interesting to compare DPS check style gameplay (Abyss, Tower, etc) to the Illusive Realm - the IR is still almost entirely combat based, but since it's more about "can you stack the right buffs to make your character ridiculously strong" it doesn't feel anything like the DPS check game modes, and instead is just hella fun. My only real complaint about it is that they remove it a week or so before the end of the patch, and don't add it back in until a little while into the new one... I wanted to just do it for fun and it was gone 😭
I've been saying in the survey every time: CO-OP SPIRAL ABYSS, or a 6 player RAID dungeon! This would be replayable and fun because it's co-op. Sure you might get a whale every now n then, but if they make it difficult enough, you can have at least a fight long enough to still be fun.
I agree!
Yes! Someone from Mihoyo please take note and pass it on!
The only thing I'd like to add is some ability to "relive" some past events and stories. E.g I'd love to go back to hang out with the Aranaras... (okay, perhaps not the most popular part). Or at least options to play the summer events... etc.
Another reason some of us play is for lore and character stories. So a reward to get new lore or character into/background +/- aesthetics would be nice.
I narrowly missed the very first 2021 summer event and I'd hoenstly love to play it through even if I got none/only some of the rewards 🥺
I would say it will be tedious to do the puzzles and will be much to ask if you need to have a bow unit for Archery challenge. Replayability can also make it tedious to do like it will he more stale and grindy rather than enjoying it. The reason endgame content exist is to test our built characters and knowledge of the game combat mechanics
I want combat in snowing weather ( easy melt / freeze opportunity ). Alsooo I want co-op -able endgame content!!! I would feel so much more motivated to refine my builds if this would also help my friends who want to team up with me.
YES having some kind of an abyss-like vhaellenge but co-op would be so fun! it would also give whales/skilled people an extra chance to shine by carrying people who struggle otherwise
@@saurusness yessssss I think Genshin is not tapping into co op potential enough as it would motivate many of us to enjoy playing it more. even for me as f2play.
53:00 2.2 Childe combat domains event, it was great you can enter different domains with the ability to explore and searching for buffs
they already built it, I don't know what they don't add it to the game it's not like they will have to build it from the search also 3.7 building custom domains' event can be a really interesting End Game for an exploration game
This is what I think too! They have all these temporary maps and mechanics that could be incorporated into recurring content!
I have been thinking about the best engaging endgame content for a while that I would like so much. Basically there is a multiplayer hub that has different servers, each holding around 100 or so players maybe 50 is good. And this map has two endgame modes at each opposite end. One is a portal to a infinite tower - up to 8 players - having a floors all the way to 100 and each is different either combat, exploration, or puzzle with each 5th level being a tough boss. The second portal leading to a boss raid portal. Here players can make a party of up to 8 players to challenge these boss raids and higher levels give special artifacts that can be upgradable to 30. And these artifacts are 1-3-5 set pieces. Fun fact this whole boss raid idea of 8 player coop raids existed in the beta which rewards that had artifacts sets of 1-3-5 but never came to be finalized in the final release of the game. Hopefully they do something great with multiplayer coop in the future(although this is definitely not happening anytime soon) especially if it is repeatable so that people can have fun with other players and have a great repayable feature for long term enjoyment. Just my thoughts lol- thanks for reading :)
In my opinion any difficulty mode whose difficulty lies on a timer to challenge players is horrible game design
i want bosses that are mechanically challenging to fight to have an engaging experience not a dumb booated health bar to defeat in x period of time
its simply not fun if enemies fighting back aren't the actual combat challenge in a game
wow i really love your ideas! i would love it hoyo implemented something like this ❤️
Best endgame is Divine Ingenuity collectors chapter. Trail chars of all sorts, make ur own domain and play on others. Collect coins, mazes, do custom and new changing challenges, with diff team comps whether u have em or not u can use all trial chars.
I like the domain end game idea. Different domains that focus on puzzles, exploration?, combat, or challenges and then continues to the next domain. I especially like domains tailored to certain characters.
The only problem I see with this is that the content *may* step on the toes of limited timed event domains/story quests
Unpopular opinion based on experience actually working in the game development field for live service games: Endgame content is the most unhealthy content design and Genshin absolutely should not develop any more of it in any form that rewards players in any meaningful way. One or two achievements for a pittance of primogems is fine, but going the Star Rail route of a weekly Simulated Universe + PF + MoC + the last thing I can't remember is strictly predatory game design.
It's also why Genshin is studied in the marketing research fields of live service studios while HSR is not - Genshin is popular and successful despite using counterproductive tactics that actually dissuade players from spending more money. Star Rail is not studied in a similar vein - they're a case study on what little things we can get away with and how much more money those tactics can make.
Generally, a live service game that makes more money per player on average is a live service game that you could confidently call "more predatory."
The better reference is the Illusive Realm, which has a lot more in common with what Saurus is suggesting - it's a good balance between the two IMO!
You get most of the rewards for the first hour or two of gameplay, but then there's a long tail of further objectives with minor rewards (like exp materials or mora equivalent). It's no big deal to miss out on those minor rewards, but the gameplay is so fun and varied that I've actually gone back to get like 95% of them so far and enjoyed it the entire time!
Contrast that to Genshin's endgame, which can be extremely frustrating if your account isn't up to the standards the abyss expects...
I love reading comments from people on the field. They're always like this one, basically saying "Players don't know what they're asking for." and generally speaking, I couldn't agree more. 😂 Wish I'd encounter more of them.
@@raptori All right, it seems you missed what I was trying to say so I should probably explain it a bit more clearly:
The main issue isn't what type of Endgame content should be added, it's that Endgame content is entirely antithetical to the core demographic of Genshin.
Genshin's main demographic is casual players. The defining factor of a casual player is that they play a game strictly for enjoyment through experience. A game needs to be enjoyable at a baseline.
A hardcore player, on the other hand, gets enjoyment through accomplishment.
So a casual player is more likely to enjoy the Serenitea Pot while a hardcore player is more likely to label it a waste of time and resources.
Meanwhile, a hardcore player is more likely to enjoy that moment when they overcome a difficult boss in Elden Ring while a casual player will either give up after their 18th death or sigh out after they win and say, "It's finally over. This was a waste of my time."
Generally speaking, content designed for one end of this spectrum pisses off the other end in some way.
You can see with the Imaginarium Theater that Genshin's team absolutely tried everything they could to ensure casual players wouldn't get upset by "frustrating" content. They specifically prevented meta-gaming anxiety by requiring a larger roster of characters and limiting gameplay to specific reactions. They also reduced the strict stat checks that you'd see in the Abyss.
On top of this, the IT also rewards additional character poses for photo taking. This is a major incentive for casual players to at least get through the easy or normal mode of IT every month. IT was probably the single best way Genshin could introduce new hardcore content.
@@incognito2742 👆👆👆
👏 You 👏 can't 👏 please 👏 everyone. 👏
That's why you pick a target audience and stick to it.
God, the amount of times I had to explain all this to whiny hardcore players who can't accept that this game was not designed for them and feel entitled to it changing just for them simply because they like the combat system.
@@incognito2742 Nah I get all that!
It goes without saying that Hoyo will do whatever they feel is best to nurture their intended playerbase, and they're clearly doing a fantastic job of it. It also goes without saying that we do not have access to any real information about the demographics, so personally I tend to assume the online discourse is unrepresentative, keep in mind that we don't really know where Hoyo's revenue comes from (welkins vs whales), and instead try to infer what their intent is based on their actions.
Up until recently, I felt it was pretty clear that their revenue was heavily skewed towards casual players, simply because Hoyo were doing very little to cater to anyone else.
I personally found that a bit frustrating, since I'm in an in-between segment where I dislike the Elden-ring style "difficulty" (definitely one of those who just sighs after finally beating a frustrating boss), but have completed all the permanent content (even down to getting 100% of the achievements) so I'm not even remotely casual either. But I recognise that I'm an outlier, and don't expect them to cater to me!
With all that in mind, the addition of the Imaginarium Theater is interesting.
I'd argue that it makes it pretty clear that something in their analytics is telling them they need *something* which keeps long-term players engaged, so I guess the question is exactly what were they aiming at there.
Based on the design of the game mode, I'm pretty convinced that a couple of the bigger motivations are to encourage players to spread their investment more horizontally, to provide repeatable content which better caters to people who don't fall into the "hardcore game" demographic, and to ensure players step outside of the narrow confines of their favourite "meta" teams and experience more of the variety of the game.
All of these things would bring the "hardcore" players closer to the "casual" players in terms of strength, and IMO a lot of the quality-of-life upgrades they've built seem aimed at the same thing from the opposite direction (moving "casual" players closer to "hardcore").
I like what they're trying with the IT, but think it's a flawed first attempt. While I'm looking forward to seeing them improve it over time, WuWa's Illusive Realm really highlighted IT's flaws to me, and Saurus's game mode suggestion (particularly the rewards structures discussed later in the video) really nails both what would appeal to me personally, and how they could make it cater to a wider audience than the current endgame manages, and do a better job at those things I *think* they're aiming at.
That rewards structure IMO makes sure it avoids being a predatory time-sink for those who don't love the experience, while ensuring the people who *do* enjoy it would get much more enjoyment out of it.
Of course that's all based on assumptions, but I still think it's a worthwhile topic to discuss!
You definitely cooked with this one. Love your overall concept.
At this point, I would just settle with having labyrinth warriors back. I'm desperate.😅
For me, Wuwa's Illusive Realm is definitely the perfect endgame mode to copy...
Yeah terrain diversity during battle are missed opportunity on genshin battle design. I'm kinda sick of fighting enemies on flat surface. And the fact they're used to do this on early 1.0 domain design show that they can do this. I'm a bit iffy with putting puzzle on this kind of gamemode, maybe this is personal bias but i'm afraid it can get old fast and a bit difficult to design. But overall i really like your suggestions
IT already has premier limited banner characters as trial characters
but i understand why you don't know that since it's all in the leaks
you will be able to play mualani and kinich and i don't even need to say you are able to play Emilie
Currently she's avilable as a "special guest" meaning you can use her if you have her or your friends have her, but there's no trial version for you to use, so unless you're saying that in future IT special guests will *also* be available as trial characters, then I think you might be confusing the main cast witht he spcial guests perhaps?
@@saurusness okay i think you are correct about this in regards to Emilie
and i am 80% wrong in regards to what i've said
the leaks do show Kinich in the special invitation while mualani and emilie in the opening characters the following IT
so we will get to test them out maybe during their banners maybe after their banners
If they add something like raids with an actual environmental effect and terrain. Oh boy even at single olauer that will be something
Hoyo wants you to play Genshin, HSR and ZZZ at the same time. They'll never gave a long ver. endgame to Genshin no matter what.
In Genshin playing the story, exploring and doing the side quests long enough. Adding more will make the game becoming tiresome. Especially to the people who also play HSR and ZZZ at the same time.
The puzzle end game will become extremely tedious, and doing it on the overworld is more than enough.
The buffing system already exists in Genshin in EVERY battle event in every patch.
Majority players of Genshin wants shorter endgame. If it takes too long to complete they will ignore it completely.
This is the mindsets of the majority of Genshin player base.
I know why you put WuWa as example but the endgame you propose is already exist in ZZZ right now. Hoyo knows how to make endgame but they still chooses to ignore it like the Labyrinth Warrior event of Genshin.
The percentage of player base of Genshin who completed the Spiral Abyss or IT is just too low. The majority who asking for longer or harder endgame or something to do in a dead patch, not even completed many of the side quests, exploring and story. They are not the majority target audience of Genshin.
@@qizeaqfile THIS. Especially the last paragraph.
IMO something like a restrictive and oppressed boss rush could work ,
for example we fight boss back to back to back with limited time , resource ,
DPS check mechanic , fight while having penalty/burden put on you and character swapping limitation
( or cool down before you can deploy that character again )
The more penalty you put on yourself the higher the score and Primo Gem you'll get .
For example how you fight Radagon and then instantly Elden Beast afterward without the ability to replenish your resources and have your skill on cool down if you use it during Radagon fight .
I *really* want this endgame... The Illusive Realm has been so much fun to play, but if we could have something with a little more depth, with some exploration and puzzles *and* Genshin's more fun reaction system for the combat, then I'd enjoy it 100x more!
I completely agree with this. Ty for another amazing video, Saurus 💖
Illusive realm in wuwa is awesome
WAKE UP SAMURAI, NEW SAURUSNESS VID JUST DROPPED
So basically a roguelite in Genshin? That sounds amazing.
Best endgame. Is a regional tournament of Power. It's pvp, you get a chance to win 5-star characters, weapons and exp materials.
Great ideas!!!
So you mean bring back the open world one-time domains with puzzles movement and combat in between, the problem is how to make it repeatable and not recycled.
In WuWa the Illusive Realm is kinda like a slightly less awesome version of what Saurus is describing, and it has only like 5 or 6 locations which all look pretty similar, but it still feels *really* fun - I think if they went all out and created enough variety, with like 5-6 locations each for a few different location styles, the locations would feel fresh and varied enough without it taking all that much more effort to make!
The stuff Saurus talked about in the vid for making it replayable works wonders for the IR, would be amazing in this Genshin version!
I'm fine if Hoyo just copies and pastes the Illusive Realm in WuWa. I like that rogue-light mode.
Honestly I'd like that a lot 😎 I've been feeling really bored of wuwa for the past couple of weeks and then they update IR and immediately I'm enjoying it again haha
Guess it’s a hot take, but I have to hard disagree. Things like SimU and Illusive Realm feel awful because you get so many insane buffs that your character doesn’t even matter anymore. Anything relying on the buffs rather than your characters in bad, imo.
You're not wrong there! The way your characters' damage just sky rockets with the SU buffs is frankly ludicrious, though I generally just block out the damage numbers in that kind of content and just focus on collecting the cards and curios so I can unlock rewards afterwards :D Same in any fighty events that offer buffs to our teams damage - I just ignore the numbers!
What I really dislike is the imaginarious theatre buffs carrying over outside of It, and the fact taht you can't turn those buff off, as that really skewes with my sense of strong my characters/teams are in a weird way.
I also wish that these game modes and events that create inflated damage numbers wouldn't be recorded in your achievements - kinda ruins the point of the achievement when it says your highest hit was a character doing 3 million damage when they'd normally do 10% or less when everything's aligned right 😂
My goat 🙌
Imo the moment they stop us from using our characters is the moment genshin's combat will be fun again. Because idk about other people but 4mil hp bosses die in a few seconds...
So either that or focus on the fun and less on the challenge. Make the combat fun but not challenging.
And I get replayabilty but so far no gacha game ever managed to make good replayable content, not even wuwa and hsr, because while they do encourage you to play the modes again, it eventually becomes a chore instead of something you enjoy.
The best endgame should be Windtrace 😊
@@ad_of.moonbreak THIS, KIND OF.
I don't particularly like Windtrace 'cause I don't like forced co-op, but I'd love to have this AND all the other fun mini games that we've gotten in events (the current bird one is a good example). They're usually cute, fun and chill, totally matching the game. It baffles me that they haven't made any of those permanent content.
Honestly yes tbh, I'd loe Windtrace and some of the other fun minigames to be more permanent! That breakout game from the Itto event (where the umbrella sword came from) was my absolute favourite!
@@MusicLoverInTheSky if they make it "permanent content" - it won't give meaningful rewards anymore - would you prefer that ? i enjoy a lot of those mini-games but they seem to repeat them every now and then and i can wait for the next cycle because if they make it permanent, you can bet they will NOT give Primos or even Hero's Wit for it anymore.
@@binsarm9026 They could still make events with them so they give rewards for a period of time.
@@binsarm9026 They could still make events with them so they give rewards during periods of time.
This just tells me you like Divine Ingenuity 😂 Seriously players can make domains like the ones you’re describing
So like arknights Integrated Strategies mode?
Just hearing you describe the kind of endgame you'd like made me super exhausted. 😅😂 I hate Simulated Universe-like things, they're very time consuming and tiring to me. I personally hope they *never* add something like that in Genshin and if they do, I hope nothing important is attached to it (like primos).
Ooh that actually brings up one point which Saurus mentioned on stream but which we didn't have time to fit into the video: in an ideal world, the shop which you get the primos (and other things) from should ideally be shared across all the different endgame modes, so that people who dislike one of them can just make up for it by doing more of another 👀
@@raptori Oohh, this could actually be really good. 👀 Especially if it includes non-combat endgame modes.
@@raptorioh thats a really good idea! so ppl could choose to do the endgame stuff they enjoy to get the same rewards. i like it!
Ahh yes I somehow compeltely forgot to mention the part abotu the shop beign a shared store between all the different modes! thank you @raptori :D
I also would prefer for the refresh to be less frequent that SU/DU (either once a month, or once a patch), because I agree a whole weekly run can be a little much... I like playing in bursts when I hsve the time and mood, and not keep to too strict a "schedule".
Other than that I like DU well enough, but i've never completed the Swarm Disater or Gold&Gears because I find both exhausting - they simply take too long to complete and just thinking about it overwhelms me LOL
@@saurusness Really? I'm surprised, 'cause what you described in the video sounded even more exhausting and time consuming, honestly. 😅
2nd!